RE: Compare and contrast

[Guest guest]

Sam do you remember me talking about Kim's daddy, who used to give Kimberley a

bottle before bedtime, and then leave the rest on the bedside table for

morning? He also used to sterilise bottles by putting them in the kettle he

was boiling for the water.

Now I'm not fussy about sterilising (never sterilised cups and spoons and

plates etc), but I think this is just asking for trouble.

BTW she got an awful stomach bug and that was blamed on the food I was giving

her! I did put him straight.

Now I am not anti bottle-feeding, but this is one huge advantage of

breastfeeding. If your child gets gastro-enteritis, there is no chance it

would be from poorly sterilised bottles!

Sue

> PS - has anyone else noticed a tendency in many bottlefeeding mums to

> mismanage bottles - as in length of time usable? The number of times I've

> seen people reheat milk, or use milk that has been standing around for more

> than 30 mins (especially when baby has already had some and therefore

> contaminated with germs...) No wonder bottlefed babies in this first world

> country still suffer from tummy upsets. I'm not fanatical about hygiene,

> but using hour-old warm milk just seems to be asking for trouble to me....

>

> <stands back for deluge>--

Sue Holden

'There is no finer investment for any community than putting milk into

babies. Sir Winston Churchill, BBC Radio broadcast, 21 Mar. 1943

SAHM for Emma (3 1/2)

Harrogate, Wetherby and District Branch; BFC, NL Co-ed, Egnell Pump Rep

Region 7; Reg. Secretary, BFC Link.

[Guest guest]

Sam do you remember me talking about Kim's daddy, who used to give Kimberley a

bottle before bedtime, and then leave the rest on the bedside table for

morning? He also used to sterilise bottles by putting them in the kettle he

was boiling for the water.

Now I'm not fussy about sterilising (never sterilised cups and spoons and

plates etc), but I think this is just asking for trouble.

BTW she got an awful stomach bug and that was blamed on the food I was giving

her! I did put him straight.

Now I am not anti bottle-feeding, but this is one huge advantage of

breastfeeding. If your child gets gastro-enteritis, there is no chance it

would be from poorly sterilised bottles!

Sue

> PS - has anyone else noticed a tendency in many bottlefeeding mums to

> mismanage bottles - as in length of time usable? The number of times I've

> seen people reheat milk, or use milk that has been standing around for more

> than 30 mins (especially when baby has already had some and therefore

> contaminated with germs...) No wonder bottlefed babies in this first world

> country still suffer from tummy upsets. I'm not fanatical about hygiene,

> but using hour-old warm milk just seems to be asking for trouble to me....

>

> <stands back for deluge>--

Sue Holden

'There is no finer investment for any community than putting milk into

babies. Sir Winston Churchill, BBC Radio broadcast, 21 Mar. 1943

SAHM for Emma (3 1/2)

Harrogate, Wetherby and District Branch; BFC, NL Co-ed, Egnell Pump Rep

Region 7; Reg. Secretary, BFC Link.

[Guest guest]

There's some correspondence in the BMJ at present about the risks of

baby's being scalded by water that's been used for heating bottles. As

it's gone on, there's also been comment about whether it's actually

necessary to heat bottles anyway. (the answer being basically, no, not

if you can get away without)

BMJ is online at:

http://www.bmj.com/index.shtml

but I haven't the link for the actual page - original article at the

beginning of this year and there was a relevant reply last Friday if

anyone wants to search.

My daughter was in hospital for ages as a baby (Birmingham Children's

Hospital) and they used to bring the bottles up from the milk kitchen

and leave them lined up over a radiator until whatever time they were

needed. I never asked about hygiene.

Sam wrote:

>

> Lesley commented on watching two mum's feeding, and said:

>

> " We then went for a coffee where a mum in the restaurant asked for a jug of

> hot water, put a bottle in it and waited five minutes for it to heat up. "

[Guest guest]

There's some correspondence in the BMJ at present about the risks of

baby's being scalded by water that's been used for heating bottles. As

it's gone on, there's also been comment about whether it's actually

necessary to heat bottles anyway. (the answer being basically, no, not

if you can get away without)

BMJ is online at:

http://www.bmj.com/index.shtml

but I haven't the link for the actual page - original article at the

beginning of this year and there was a relevant reply last Friday if

anyone wants to search.

My daughter was in hospital for ages as a baby (Birmingham Children's

Hospital) and they used to bring the bottles up from the milk kitchen

and leave them lined up over a radiator until whatever time they were

needed. I never asked about hygiene.

Sam wrote:

>

> Lesley commented on watching two mum's feeding, and said:

>

> " We then went for a coffee where a mum in the restaurant asked for a jug of

> hot water, put a bottle in it and waited five minutes for it to heat up. "

[Guest guest]

Sam,

> PS - has anyone else noticed a tendency in many bottlefeeding

mums to

> mismanage bottles - as in length of time usable? The number of

times I've

> seen people reheat milk, or use milk that has been standing

around for more

> than 30 mins (especially when baby has already had some and

therefore

> contaminated with germs...) No wonder bottlefed babies in this

first world

> country still suffer from tummy upsets. I'm not fanatical

about hygiene,

> but using hour-old warm milk just seems to be asking for

trouble to me....

Ooooooo! I know! The girls from my A/N class come round, heat

up their bottles in the microwave when they arrive, feed them a

bit then leave them sitting about for well over an hour

sometimes...I sit there cringing and thinking that they've been

lucky so far not to give the babies serious tummy problems. The

other thing that gets me ('scuse grumbling but better out than

in) is when the baby is crying, snuffling and rooting at their

jumpers, tongue sticking out, showing all the signs and they say

'oh he can't be hungry, he's not due a feed for another hour' !!!

Baby then proceeds to cry all the way through our coffee until

the hour is up...

[Guest guest]

Sam,

> PS - has anyone else noticed a tendency in many bottlefeeding

mums to

> mismanage bottles - as in length of time usable? The number of

times I've

> seen people reheat milk, or use milk that has been standing

around for more

> than 30 mins (especially when baby has already had some and

therefore

> contaminated with germs...) No wonder bottlefed babies in this

first world

> country still suffer from tummy upsets. I'm not fanatical

about hygiene,

> but using hour-old warm milk just seems to be asking for

trouble to me....

Ooooooo! I know! The girls from my A/N class come round, heat

up their bottles in the microwave when they arrive, feed them a

bit then leave them sitting about for well over an hour

sometimes...I sit there cringing and thinking that they've been

lucky so far not to give the babies serious tummy problems. The

other thing that gets me ('scuse grumbling but better out than

in) is when the baby is crying, snuffling and rooting at their

jumpers, tongue sticking out, showing all the signs and they say

'oh he can't be hungry, he's not due a feed for another hour' !!!

Baby then proceeds to cry all the way through our coffee until

the hour is up...

[Guest guest]

Sam wrote:

>PS - has anyone else noticed a tendency in many bottlefeeding mums to

>mismanage bottles - as in length of time usable?

Yes I agree.

Another pet hate of mine is giving baby a yoghurt/food and then putting

the half eaten stuff to one side/in the fridge and bringing it out at

the next meal. By then the saliva that went into first time around from

the spoon has started to make it watery .... YUCK!

Or the worst - someone-I-know's freezer which is full of half eaten

Mc's lunches, ice-creams etc!

--

Sue

[Guest guest]

The

>other thing that gets me ('scuse grumbling but better out than

>in) is when the baby is crying, snuffling and rooting at their

>jumpers, tongue sticking out, showing all the signs and they say

>'oh he can't be hungry, he's not due a feed for another hour' !!!

>Baby then proceeds to cry all the way through our coffee until

>the hour is up...

When Caitlin starts fussing, people often ask me " is she due for a feed? " I

say, " If she wants one! " She is currently going through a growth spurt, and

is quite clearly of the opinion that if she's awake (most of the day and

night!), she should be feeding. It's a bit of a pain, especially with a 2

year old to think about, the summer newsletter to put together etc etc, but

I know (hope) this stage will pass soon! Last week I was told by someone

who shall remain nameless, seeing as she's closely related to someone else

on this list, that at 3 months old, she should be going 4 hours between

feeds. Problem is, that at 3 months old, Caitlin hasn't learnt to tell the

time yet.

Today, my MIL suggested that she's hungry for solids. Going over old ground

here, but this is another thing that bugs me. Rob's sister's baby has

apparently been on solids for a week or so, and " is now sleeping through " .

Isaac is just 2 days older than Caitlin, so is 15 weeks, but as he was 5

weeks early, in my book that makes him just 10 weeks. He is bottle fed, and

she insisted on a 4 hourly schedule from the start, and has been on hungry

baby milk since about 8 weeks (= 3 weeks!). And apparently, she's the one

doing the correct thing, instead of freaky who insists on

breastfeeding longer than the acceptable 6 weeks, and won't let her baby

have a bottle/dummy/solids, even though this is exactly what she obviously

needs.

Sorry, turned into a rant!

McVeigh

Newsletter Editor & Secretary, Leighton Buzzard & District

SAHM to (AKA Tiff Toff) the pantophobic, DOB 19/9/97

& Caitlin (AKA Cake Tin) the suckaholic, DOB 12/1/00

[Guest guest]

Keep on doing what you're doing, you know that you are right and you are

Caitlin's mum. We know you are right too. My MIL started on the " Are you

still doing that? " when I mentioned something about DD2 still feeding but

soon shut up when I pointed out that she would have been in hospital with

dehydration if I hadn't been bf as she couldn't tolerate anything else for

a fortnight.

Lesley

Chair/ANT Worthing NCT Branch

Mum to Emma 8, Kieran 4 and Carys 21m

" Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose "

----------

>

> baby milk since about 8 weeks (= 3 weeks!). And apparently, she's the

one

> doing the correct thing, instead of freaky who insists on

> breastfeeding longer than the acceptable 6 weeks, and won't let her baby

> have a bottle/dummy/solids, even though this is exactly what she

obviously

> needs.

>

> Sorry, turned into a rant!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Diz said......... they used to bring the bottles up from the milk kitchen

and leave them lined up over a radiator until whatever time they were needed

-------

IIRC, formula in hospital maternity wards is now fed cold.

When I had my scans with DD2, I discovered that one change was that they

were no longer allowed to warm up the gel for your tummy on the radiator,

presumably for the same reason!!

Lesley

[Guest guest]

Sam said.......I completely accept the point that bf is more convenient in

many ways (e.g. this one!) but the bottlefeeding mum really hasn't got her

act together as much as she could have.

-------------

I wasn't making an issue of it, just musing on the whole situation because

it all happened in half an hour. I agree there are more effective ways of

managing formula feeding which that mum didn't use. Which goes to show that

formula feeding mums also can use advice.

It actually set me of thinking about DS1 who was bottle fed from 3 weeks. I

can't recall ever asking for his bottle to be heated. I know I must have

done because he wouldn't take it cold and we used to go out a lot. At one

time DH worked from home but spent his mornings out and about for his job.

I used to go with him on decent days, from when DS1 was a couple of months

old.

We holidayed in the Benelux countries when DS1 was 5 months but again I

can't remember anything about feeding him. DH clearly remembers us going to

Brighton on the train and him giving DS1 a bottle in a restaurant, but I

cannot recall going to Brighton in the first place! This was in the 'good

old days' when baby changing rooms, microwaves, highchairs in cafes and all

the other things we take for granted just didn't exist!! There was no easy

access through shop doors either but on the other hand, no one though twice

about leaving their baby outside while they did their shopping.........I

can't imagine doing that now.

Lesley

[Guest guest]

The small bottles of formula available on the postnatal wards in our hospital

are kept in a cupboard near the midwives' station. When the mums want a bottle,

they take one from the cupboard, together with a teat in a sealed pack and go

back to their bed. No warming facilities. After bfing, I wondered why milk was

warmed anyway, as, whenever the boys let any milk fall onto my arm, it always

felt very cool and that was straight from the breast.

Alison

Chair, Maidstone branch and PNDL trainee

-------

IIRC, formula in hospital maternity wards is now fed cold.

When I had my scans with DD2, I discovered that one change was that they

were no longer allowed to warm up the gel for your tummy on the radiator,

presumably for the same reason!!

Lesley

[Guest guest]

,

said,

> Keep on doing what you're doing, you know that you are right

and you are

> Caitlin's mum. We know you are right too

Seconded with bells and knobs on!!!!!

(btw I thought you looked lovely in your photos, esp the one of

you with brand new Caitlin!)

[Guest guest]

,

said,

> Keep on doing what you're doing, you know that you are right

and you are

> Caitlin's mum. We know you are right too

Seconded with bells and knobs on!!!!!

(btw I thought you looked lovely in your photos, esp the one of

you with brand new Caitlin!)

[Guest guest]

,

said,

> Keep on doing what you're doing, you know that you are right

and you are

> Caitlin's mum. We know you are right too

Seconded with bells and knobs on!!!!!

(btw I thought you looked lovely in your photos, esp the one of

you with brand new Caitlin!)

[Guest guest]

Lesley writes

>There was no easy

> access through shop doors either but on the other hand, no one

though twice

> about leaving their baby outside while they did their

shopping.........I

> can't imagine doing that now.

three years ago before we moved down South we lived on the Island

of Bute for a couple of years where Dh had his first IT job.

Babies in prams outside shops and cafes are still a regular sight

there, as are unlocked cars, houses, etc etc etc...that aspect

was lovely. Not being able to get off the island after 7pm

*wasn't* so lovely, nor was the supermarket running out of food

and the boats not sailing due to storns!!!

I must be odd though because I miss it...

[Guest guest]

Lesley writes

>There was no easy

> access through shop doors either but on the other hand, no one

though twice

> about leaving their baby outside while they did their

shopping.........I

> can't imagine doing that now.

three years ago before we moved down South we lived on the Island

of Bute for a couple of years where Dh had his first IT job.

Babies in prams outside shops and cafes are still a regular sight

there, as are unlocked cars, houses, etc etc etc...that aspect

was lovely. Not being able to get off the island after 7pm

*wasn't* so lovely, nor was the supermarket running out of food

and the boats not sailing due to storns!!!

I must be odd though because I miss it...

[Guest guest]

Lesley writes

>There was no easy

> access through shop doors either but on the other hand, no one

though twice

> about leaving their baby outside while they did their

shopping.........I

> can't imagine doing that now.

three years ago before we moved down South we lived on the Island

of Bute for a couple of years where Dh had his first IT job.

Babies in prams outside shops and cafes are still a regular sight

there, as are unlocked cars, houses, etc etc etc...that aspect

was lovely. Not being able to get off the island after 7pm

*wasn't* so lovely, nor was the supermarket running out of food

and the boats not sailing due to storns!!!

I must be odd though because I miss it...

[Guest guest]

This was also EBM (which had been heat-treated) - according to LLL (I

think), a bottle of EBM, left to stand, has fewer bacteria, because of

anti-bacterial properties in the milk. Good, eh?

(Possibly wouldn't apply if heat-treated - Sue or will know!)

Pete & Lesley Reader wrote:

>

> Diz said......... they used to bring the bottles up from the milk kitchen

> and leave them lined up over a radiator until whatever time they were needed

> -------

> IIRC, formula in hospital maternity wards is now fed cold.

[Guest guest]

For my scan (1994) the gel was kept on the ultrasound machine/screen so was

nice and warmed up by lunchtime.

Barbara

> When I had my scans with DD2, I discovered that one change was that they

> were no longer allowed to warm up the gel for your tummy on the radiator,

> presumably for the same reason!!

> Lesley

[Guest guest]

For my scan (1994) the gel was kept on the ultrasound machine/screen so was

nice and warmed up by lunchtime.

Barbara

> When I had my scans with DD2, I discovered that one change was that they

> were no longer allowed to warm up the gel for your tummy on the radiator,

> presumably for the same reason!!

> Lesley

[Guest guest]

In the unit I work on the milk is kept in a milk kitchen on one a/n ward and

in a cupboard on the ward in the other.

We do offer women a jug of hot water to awrm the bottle if they wish.

We are currently looking at giving bottle feeding women their own supply of

milk for two reasons. 1. To keep the milk out of sight of the other mothers

on the ward (as per baby friendly initiative) and 2. To prevent women

switching and changing from one brand to another.

Dixon

NCT teacher/MSLC rep

mum to 8, Jasmin 6, Polly 5, & Keira 2

PARENTHOOD IS THE GREATEST SINGLE PRESERVE OF THE AMATEUR....

Re: Compare and contrast

> The small bottles of formula available on the postnatal wards in our

hospital are kept in a cupboard near the midwives' station. . No warming

facilities. >

> Alison

> Chair, Maidstone branch and PNDL trainee

>

> -------

> IIRC, formula in hospital maternity wards is now fed cold.

> When I had my scans with DD2, I discovered that one change was that they

> were no longer allowed to warm up the gel for your tummy on the

radiator,

> presumably for the same reason!!

> Lesley

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Or the worst - someone-I-know's freezer which is full of half eaten

> Mc's lunches, ice-creams etc!

>

Bleeeuuurrgghhhh, Macs aren't nice first time around, let alone as

leftovers from the freezer! Urgghh, I feel like gagging!

--

Mum to (aged 4, born a whopping 11lbs 6oz) and 2 angels 20/10/98 and

24/3/00

Farnborough, Hants

[Guest guest]

> Or the worst - someone-I-know's freezer which is full of half eaten

> Mc's lunches, ice-creams etc!

>

Bleeeuuurrgghhhh, Macs aren't nice first time around, let alone as

leftovers from the freezer! Urgghh, I feel like gagging!

--

Mum to (aged 4, born a whopping 11lbs 6oz) and 2 angels 20/10/98 and

24/3/00

Farnborough, Hants

[Guest guest]

> PS - has anyone else noticed a tendency in many bottlefeeding mums to

> mismanage bottles - as in length of time usable? The number of times I've

> seen people reheat milk, or use milk that has been standing around for

more

> than 30 mins (especially when baby has already had some and therefore

> contaminated with germs...) No wonder bottlefed babies in this first

world

> country still suffer from tummy upsets. I'm not fanatical about hygiene,

> but using hour-old warm milk just seems to be asking for trouble to me....

You askled for it...remember the woman I used to childmind for who wanted

plates etc sterilized for a 2y.o.? well, she bottle fed her first (and the

second a bit) and she used to take up all the bottles for the night at 8pm,

and use them through the night. (even in the summer when temps were in the

80s) She'd stay up there till about 11 am the next morning, or even later,

still using the same milk, often reusing started bottles. She'd reheat it

with a flask of hot water if she needed to. When they were bigger, she did

the same with bottles of cows' milk. Now i'm not fussy, but the double

standards here had me very confused!