Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful for

a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and how

we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

erm call me stupid or something but what is prosthetic eyes and shells about if

they're not about being blind? That's like not talking about blood sugar

monitors and stay with topics about caring for your diabetes. Sorry if I sound

argumentative but it does seem an odd request, especially as this thread has

helped many members...in a large way way as far as I can tell. I'm sorry, have I

totally missed the point of this group or something?

.

From: dave Bond

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:48 PM

To: blind-diabetics

Subject: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful for

a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and how

we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

Gee, I think the whole blind diabetic thing works for me. I come here for just

that, and though I have many other interests in my life, I also have many other

places I can go to explore them. If we talked about everything related to

blindness, I wonder if the diabetes part may get lost or pushed out by so many

blind issues, so important to us, of course. I think there are times that we

can email folks privately if they share an interest. We have got a very

friendly bunch of people and I myself would be happy to have someone write me

about topics that I had some interest and knowledge about. I for one have no

hard feelings about the administrative decision. I have a list also and how

quickly it can get

Vickioff topic if it's allowed. Take care, all.

When you are DOWN to nothing... God is UP to something!

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful for

a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and how

we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

Although I do recognize that some on-topic posts morph over time into these

unrelated issues that one or more face, however, I feel that in some cases these

off topic threads do give something of value to members. In the case of

diabetes, it is a disease that will obviously cause blindness and many other

seemingly unrelated, yet serious, health and lifestyle issues. As we know, many

diabetics struggle with heart issues, gastrointestinal issues, food issues, limb

loss, kidney transplantation, well, you get my drift, and the list goes on and

on. The fact is, these are conditions that commonly face those with diabetes.

That's why it's such a difficult disease to deal with.

 

I think it can be awkward to bring some discussions that involve several members

off list, and how many forums could there possibly be where members can discuss

these particular issues - i.e. Yahoo Group for Blind People who want to talk

about Ocular Prosthetics? And a new Yahoo group can be created to talk about a

new concern because somebody wants to talk about braille books in the

prosthetics group? Well, I know that is perhaps exaggerating a point to make a

point.  

 

I'm not blind, but I do recognize the unique needs of a blind group, and in

particular a blind group of individuals who struggle with diabetes, and some of

their unique needs and challenges. Any of us can just delete the messages I

don't consider relevant to my own situation - which might involve many or all

those issues I talked about in the first paragraph - well, except for the

diabetes part, and for the blindness part. But blind *is* in the title, and so

is diabetes, so to me it is obvious that blind issues would and do enter the

pictures. As with all off topic posts, this too shall pass, and we'll all get to

talking about the more mundane issues such as testing, fasting blood sugars, and

our A1C's.

One more thing, if I may suggest, if ever any messages morph into an off topic

post, I suggest adding an O.T. to the header. That way any one of us could set

up a rule in outlook, for example, that can automatically delete these messages.

I guess that can't be done in digest, but it can help some anyway. 

I'd hate this to become the kind of group where we have to be sitting at our

desks, worrying if any given topic might be *too* offtopic to post. However, in

a nod to those of us who don't appreciate off topic posts, if it is a discussion

that involves maybe only a couple of people, then indeed, take it to email.

 

Like I said, that is just my 2 cents from my little back corner of the office.

*smile*

.... now back to whatever you were doing, and thank you for allowing me my little

soap box space here.

[Guest guest]

I think, , the moderator is trying to stress of the diabetes over the

blindness, although I agree that is as related to diabetes as it is to

blindness as many of us have prosthetic eyes because of the complications of

diabetes.

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

, all I can say is,, great minds think alike. Obviously this topic has been

popular otherwise it would've died a death long ago.

You and Larry have been a rock and so have many others.Keep it up

.

From:

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:48 PM

To: b lind-diabetics

Subject: Re: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Although I do recognize that some on-topic posts morph over time into these

unrelated issues that one or more face, however, I feel that in some cases these

off topic threads do give something of value to members. In the case of

diabetes, it is a disease that will obviously cause blindness and many other

seemingly unrelated, yet serious, health and lifestyle issues. As we know, many

diabetics struggle with heart issues, gastrointestinal issues, food issues, limb

loss, kidney transplantation, well, you get my drift, and the list goes on and

on. The fact is, these are conditions that commonly face those with diabetes.

That's why it's such a difficult disease to deal with.

I think it can be awkward to bring some discussions that involve several members

off list, and how many forums could there possibly be where members can discuss

these particular issues - i.e. Yahoo Group for Blind People who want to talk

about Ocular Prosthetics? And a new Yahoo group can be created to talk about a

new concern because somebody wants to talk about braille books in the

prosthetics group? Well, I know that is perhaps exaggerating a point to make a

point.

I'm not blind, but I do recognize the unique needs of a blind group, and in

particular a blind group of individuals who struggle with diabetes, and some of

their unique needs and challenges. Any of us can just delete the messages I

don't consider relevant to my own situation - which might involve many or all

those issues I talked about in the first paragraph - well, except for the

diabetes part, and for the blindness part. But blind *is* in the title, and so

is diabetes, so to me it is obvious that blind issues would and do enter the

pictures. As with all off topic posts, this too shall pass, and we'll all get to

talking about the more mundane issues such as testing, fasting blood sugars, and

our A1C's.

One more thing, if I may suggest, if ever any messages morph into an off topic

post, I suggest adding an O.T. to the header. That way any one of us could set

up a rule in outlook, for example, that can automatically delete these messages.

I guess that can't be done in digest, but it can help some anyway.

I'd hate this to become the kind of group where we have to be sitting at our

desks, worrying if any given topic might be *too* offtopic to post. However, in

a nod to those of us who don't appreciate off topic posts, if it is a discussion

that involves maybe only a couple of people, then indeed, take it to email.

Like I said, that is just my 2 cents from my little back corner of the office.

*smile*

.... now back to whatever you were doing, and thank you for allowing me my little

soap box space here.

[Guest guest]

Yeah that's what I figured. So are we to discuss more diabetic only related

issues? I did not join a wiki I joined a group for support and advice and I'm

pretty sure we all did. If you ask me, which you didn't I know, the subjects

come along as they arise, they're not set in stone...today is friday so today we

speak about hypos or today is tuesday so we must talk about macular

degeneration, I'm almost certain that's not how Dave wants it to be either. So I

have a proposal to make... let the love shine on here so we can be happy little

vegemites cos as far as I can see we got a good thing here with some absolutely

fantastic people, many of which I wouldn't mind being stuck in a lift with(not

that I would like to be stuck in a lift any time soon).

What I normally say when changing a conversation is this...

So I said to the milkman don't deliver any milk, and he didn't...

.

From: LaFrance-Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:10 PM

To: blind-diabetics

Subject: RE: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

I think, , the moderator is trying to stress of the diabetes over the

blindness, although I agree that is as related to diabetes as it is to

blindness as many of us have prosthetic eyes because of the complications of

diabetes.

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

I agree . I wouldn't mind being stuck ina " lift " with anyone on this

either! Actually I was stuck in an elevator once for 15 minutes and it was

rather frightening!

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

You know? The only time I was stuck in a lift was in Basildon Hospital with a

porter a few days after I went blind and went into kidney failure. An hour!!

Luvvya all

.

From: LaFrance-Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:33 PM

To: blind-diabetics

Subject: RE: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

I agree . I wouldn't mind being stuck ina " lift " with anyone on this

either! Actually I was stuck in an elevator once for 15 minutes and it was

rather frightening!

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

folks, I think that the point being made, is not to go on for ever!

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

My question here is how do we determine whether or not a topic is off topic? Of

course, if I were to begin a topic that asked for member thoughts on why the

Toronto Blue Jays are in last place when they were supposed to be a playoff

contender, it's a no brainer. Off topic it is. However, when a topic is very

much blindness and health related, I would have to say that it is close enough.

To me, a discussion of artificial eyes is about as blind a topic as topics can

get. No one else wears them. Therefore, no one else talks about them. This list

is probably as close as one can get to an environment where quite a few folks

might be interested in such a topic and therefore feel comfortable in discussing

it. Again, where else might we discuss it? To me, the idea of half a dozen

people or more taking the topic to private email would be impractical.

I would have no problem at all in adding OT to any subject line that is not

directly related to both blindness and diabetes. I think it's a fine idea which

allows those who are not interested to easily skip over such topics.

Just one more thing here if I may.

During the past couple of days, no one else has introduced any other topic for

discussion. So again, I have to wonder just a bit about how this discussion

caused anyone inconvenience.Also, and again, this is just my thought, a list is

more or less defined by those who post in it. To me, if I read posts but don't

join in, I have less say in how the list is defined. Of course, there's nothing

wrong with reading posts only, as everyone should feel welcomed and enjoy the

right to find their comfort zone. But if I wern't posting, I don't think I'd

have a lot to say about the nature of the posts that others offerd.

In the final analysis, it is always up to the moderators to decide what is or is

not to be allowed on any given list. It is then our right as members to decide

whether or not the parameters meed our needs. As for me, I like a relacxed place

where I can hang out, talk to good people and learn a thing or 2 along the way.

During the past couple of days, that's exactly what I've been doing. But again,

the final say belongs to the moderators who put in the work to keep things going

around here.

There's my 2 cents for you. Though it does seem that I start out giving my 2

cents and always end up giving a couple of dollars worth of my thoughts instead.

Ah but on the bright side, I never ask for change.

Larry

[Guest guest]

the newer members aren't privy to some of the recent history of this list. For

a very long time, Tucker was an invisible moderator. People weren't

getting approved, and I managed to find her finally. I became a co-moderator,

and it was decided to change the approval process to instant approval. Well, we

started getting spammers. So, we went

back to need ing approval. My point is, I'm trying to do what moderators are

supposed to do. My understanding of that, based on the many, many lists I've

been on for nearly 18 years, is that they attempt to keep focus on the list's

prescribed topic and give the boot to people who cause trouble.

Having said this, the main problem with the very recent discussion is that it

went into this very off topic and personal rabbit trail thing. There's nothing

wrong with a list sitting quiet for a period of time. I've been on this list

for a long time, and we go through slow times, and we go through busy times. I

believe it's important to maintain a fair amount of strictness to insure the

list doesn't dissolve into some obscure undefined gathering place where anyone

can talk about anything.

It could be argued that discussing things related solely to diabetes doesn't fit

the list's criteria. How does a discussion of carbohydrates and insulin or

medication doses have much to do with blindness after all? For me personally, I

find the data provided, in a textual format, where my screen reader can access

important data is very much related to diabetes and blindness.

I have to think that there are blindness related lists where the discussion of

prosthetic eyes is probably more appropriate. If diabetes was an underlying

cause of eyeball degeneration, or diabetics with prosthetic eyes had

difficulties with infections and the such, this would be within the list's

criteria.

I hope this helps to clarify the point of view of at least one half of the

moderators. I'll attempt to have Tucker chime in if it seems it might

be helpful.

Dave

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

I understand what you're trying to say and I hope no one gets discouraged

enough to leave. Prosthetic shells is related directly by the fact if I had

not lost my sight due to diabetes and then later had them cataract and

atrophy, I would not have needed the shells for my emotional health. We are

more the diabetes. However, where what you are saying is perfectly valid,

is the fact that after 1 or 2 stories about the shells, the stories kept

coming, almost like we were trying to see who could outdo one another.

Folks, let's try and keep things in perspective and not go overboard.

Dave, keep up the good work and thanks again for helping do this thankless

task.

Ruth

From: blind-diabetics

[mailto:blind-diabetics ] On Behalf Of dave Bond

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:02 PM

To: blind-diabetics

Subject: Re: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

the newer members aren't privy to some of the recent history of this list.

For a very long time, Tucker was an invisible moderator. People

weren't getting approved, and I managed to find her finally. I became a

co-moderator, and it was decided to change the approval process to instant

approval. Well, we started getting spammers. So, we went

back to need ing approval. My point is, I'm trying to do what moderators are

supposed to do. My understanding of that, based on the many, many lists I've

been on for nearly 18 years, is that they attempt to keep focus on the

list's prescribed topic and give the boot to people who cause trouble.

Having said this, the main problem with the very recent discussion is that

it went into this very off topic and personal rabbit trail thing. There's

nothing wrong with a list sitting quiet for a period of time. I've been on

this list for a long time, and we go through slow times, and we go through

busy times. I believe it's important to maintain a fair amount of strictness

to insure the list doesn't dissolve into some obscure undefined gathering

place where anyone can talk about anything.

It could be argued that discussing things related solely to diabetes doesn't

fit the list's criteria. How does a discussion of carbohydrates and insulin

or medication doses have much to do with blindness after all? For me

personally, I find the data provided, in a textual format, where my screen

reader can access important data is very much related to diabetes and

blindness.

I have to think that there are blindness related lists where the discussion

of prosthetic eyes is probably more appropriate. If diabetes was an

underlying cause of eyeball degeneration, or diabetics with prosthetic eyes

had difficulties with infections and the such, this would be within the

list's criteria.

I hope this helps to clarify the point of view of at least one half of the

moderators. I'll attempt to have Tucker chime in if it seems it

might be helpful.

Dave

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

I understand what you're trying to say and I hope no one gets discouraged

enough to leave. Prosthetic shells is related directly by the fact if I had

not lost my sight due to diabetes and then later had them cataract and

atrophy, I would not have needed the shells for my emotional health. We are

more the diabetes. However, where what you are saying is perfectly valid,

is the fact that after 1 or 2 stories about the shells, the stories kept

coming, almost like we were trying to see who could outdo one another.

Folks, let's try and keep things in perspective and not go overboard.

Dave, keep up the good work and thanks again for helping do this thankless

task.

Ruth

From: blind-diabetics

[mailto:blind-diabetics ] On Behalf Of dave Bond

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:02 PM

To: blind-diabetics

Subject: Re: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

the newer members aren't privy to some of the recent history of this list.

For a very long time, Tucker was an invisible moderator. People

weren't getting approved, and I managed to find her finally. I became a

co-moderator, and it was decided to change the approval process to instant

approval. Well, we started getting spammers. So, we went

back to need ing approval. My point is, I'm trying to do what moderators are

supposed to do. My understanding of that, based on the many, many lists I've

been on for nearly 18 years, is that they attempt to keep focus on the

list's prescribed topic and give the boot to people who cause trouble.

Having said this, the main problem with the very recent discussion is that

it went into this very off topic and personal rabbit trail thing. There's

nothing wrong with a list sitting quiet for a period of time. I've been on

this list for a long time, and we go through slow times, and we go through

busy times. I believe it's important to maintain a fair amount of strictness

to insure the list doesn't dissolve into some obscure undefined gathering

place where anyone can talk about anything.

It could be argued that discussing things related solely to diabetes doesn't

fit the list's criteria. How does a discussion of carbohydrates and insulin

or medication doses have much to do with blindness after all? For me

personally, I find the data provided, in a textual format, where my screen

reader can access important data is very much related to diabetes and

blindness.

I have to think that there are blindness related lists where the discussion

of prosthetic eyes is probably more appropriate. If diabetes was an

underlying cause of eyeball degeneration, or diabetics with prosthetic eyes

had difficulties with infections and the such, this would be within the

list's criteria.

I hope this helps to clarify the point of view of at least one half of the

moderators. I'll attempt to have Tucker chime in if it seems it

might be helpful.

Dave

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

I understand what you're trying to say and I hope no one gets discouraged

enough to leave. Prosthetic shells is related directly by the fact if I had

not lost my sight due to diabetes and then later had them cataract and

atrophy, I would not have needed the shells for my emotional health. We are

more the diabetes. However, where what you are saying is perfectly valid,

is the fact that after 1 or 2 stories about the shells, the stories kept

coming, almost like we were trying to see who could outdo one another.

Folks, let's try and keep things in perspective and not go overboard.

Dave, keep up the good work and thanks again for helping do this thankless

task.

Ruth

From: blind-diabetics

[mailto:blind-diabetics ] On Behalf Of dave Bond

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:02 PM

To: blind-diabetics

Subject: Re: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

the newer members aren't privy to some of the recent history of this list.

For a very long time, Tucker was an invisible moderator. People

weren't getting approved, and I managed to find her finally. I became a

co-moderator, and it was decided to change the approval process to instant

approval. Well, we started getting spammers. So, we went

back to need ing approval. My point is, I'm trying to do what moderators are

supposed to do. My understanding of that, based on the many, many lists I've

been on for nearly 18 years, is that they attempt to keep focus on the

list's prescribed topic and give the boot to people who cause trouble.

Having said this, the main problem with the very recent discussion is that

it went into this very off topic and personal rabbit trail thing. There's

nothing wrong with a list sitting quiet for a period of time. I've been on

this list for a long time, and we go through slow times, and we go through

busy times. I believe it's important to maintain a fair amount of strictness

to insure the list doesn't dissolve into some obscure undefined gathering

place where anyone can talk about anything.

It could be argued that discussing things related solely to diabetes doesn't

fit the list's criteria. How does a discussion of carbohydrates and insulin

or medication doses have much to do with blindness after all? For me

personally, I find the data provided, in a textual format, where my screen

reader can access important data is very much related to diabetes and

blindness.

I have to think that there are blindness related lists where the discussion

of prosthetic eyes is probably more appropriate. If diabetes was an

underlying cause of eyeball degeneration, or diabetics with prosthetic eyes

had difficulties with infections and the such, this would be within the

list's criteria.

I hope this helps to clarify the point of view of at least one half of the

moderators. I'll attempt to have Tucker chime in if it seems it

might be helpful.

Dave

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

I couldn't have said this better myself. I too appreciate your hard work

for this group Dave. I have in the past dropped off of lists with no

moderator or where the moderator just lets off topic discussions go on for

so long that you can't even remember how it got started. While I enjoy the

humorous stories some have told about removing their prosthetic eye to prove

a point or lost one in a swimming pool, it probably is time to try to get

the focus back to diabetes. I belong to several lists and do not mind at

all if one goes quiet for a few days. There is no need to post something to

a list just for the sake of keeping emails coming.

I hope I haven't stepped on any toes by making the above remarks.

Becky

_____

From: blind-diabetics

[mailto:blind-diabetics ] On Behalf Of ruth hogue

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:45 PM

To: blind-diabetics

Subject: RE: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

Hi Dave,

I understand what you're trying to say and I hope no one gets discouraged

enough to leave. Prosthetic shells is related directly by the fact if I had

not lost my sight due to diabetes and then later had them cataract and

atrophy, I would not have needed the shells for my emotional health. We are

more the diabetes. However, where what you are saying is perfectly valid,

is the fact that after 1 or 2 stories about the shells, the stories kept

coming, almost like we were trying to see who could outdo one another.

Folks, let's try and keep things in perspective and not go overboard.

Dave, keep up the good work and thanks again for helping do this thankless

task.

Ruth

From: blind-diabetics@ <mailto:blind-diabetics%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

[mailto:blind-diabetics@ <mailto:blind-diabetics%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dave Bond

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:02 PM

To: blind-diabetics@ <mailto:blind-diabetics%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

the newer members aren't privy to some of the recent history of this list.

For a very long time, Tucker was an invisible moderator. People

weren't getting approved, and I managed to find her finally. I became a

co-moderator, and it was decided to change the approval process to instant

approval. Well, we started getting spammers. So, we went

back to need ing approval. My point is, I'm trying to do what moderators are

supposed to do. My understanding of that, based on the many, many lists I've

been on for nearly 18 years, is that they attempt to keep focus on the

list's prescribed topic and give the boot to people who cause trouble.

Having said this, the main problem with the very recent discussion is that

it went into this very off topic and personal rabbit trail thing. There's

nothing wrong with a list sitting quiet for a period of time. I've been on

this list for a long time, and we go through slow times, and we go through

busy times. I believe it's important to maintain a fair amount of strictness

to insure the list doesn't dissolve into some obscure undefined gathering

place where anyone can talk about anything.

It could be argued that discussing things related solely to diabetes doesn't

fit the list's criteria. How does a discussion of carbohydrates and insulin

or medication doses have much to do with blindness after all? For me

personally, I find the data provided, in a textual format, where my screen

reader can access important data is very much related to diabetes and

blindness.

I have to think that there are blindness related lists where the discussion

of prosthetic eyes is probably more appropriate. If diabetes was an

underlying cause of eyeball degeneration, or diabetics with prosthetic eyes

had difficulties with infections and the such, this would be within the

list's criteria.

I hope this helps to clarify the point of view of at least one half of the

moderators. I'll attempt to have Tucker chime in if it seems it

might be helpful.

Dave

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

I couldn't have said this better myself. I too appreciate your hard work

for this group Dave. I have in the past dropped off of lists with no

moderator or where the moderator just lets off topic discussions go on for

so long that you can't even remember how it got started. While I enjoy the

humorous stories some have told about removing their prosthetic eye to prove

a point or lost one in a swimming pool, it probably is time to try to get

the focus back to diabetes. I belong to several lists and do not mind at

all if one goes quiet for a few days. There is no need to post something to

a list just for the sake of keeping emails coming.

I hope I haven't stepped on any toes by making the above remarks.

Becky

_____

From: blind-diabetics

[mailto:blind-diabetics ] On Behalf Of ruth hogue

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:45 PM

To: blind-diabetics

Subject: RE: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

Hi Dave,

I understand what you're trying to say and I hope no one gets discouraged

enough to leave. Prosthetic shells is related directly by the fact if I had

not lost my sight due to diabetes and then later had them cataract and

atrophy, I would not have needed the shells for my emotional health. We are

more the diabetes. However, where what you are saying is perfectly valid,

is the fact that after 1 or 2 stories about the shells, the stories kept

coming, almost like we were trying to see who could outdo one another.

Folks, let's try and keep things in perspective and not go overboard.

Dave, keep up the good work and thanks again for helping do this thankless

task.

Ruth

From: blind-diabetics@ <mailto:blind-diabetics%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

[mailto:blind-diabetics@ <mailto:blind-diabetics%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dave Bond

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:02 PM

To: blind-diabetics@ <mailto:blind-diabetics%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

the newer members aren't privy to some of the recent history of this list.

For a very long time, Tucker was an invisible moderator. People

weren't getting approved, and I managed to find her finally. I became a

co-moderator, and it was decided to change the approval process to instant

approval. Well, we started getting spammers. So, we went

back to need ing approval. My point is, I'm trying to do what moderators are

supposed to do. My understanding of that, based on the many, many lists I've

been on for nearly 18 years, is that they attempt to keep focus on the

list's prescribed topic and give the boot to people who cause trouble.

Having said this, the main problem with the very recent discussion is that

it went into this very off topic and personal rabbit trail thing. There's

nothing wrong with a list sitting quiet for a period of time. I've been on

this list for a long time, and we go through slow times, and we go through

busy times. I believe it's important to maintain a fair amount of strictness

to insure the list doesn't dissolve into some obscure undefined gathering

place where anyone can talk about anything.

It could be argued that discussing things related solely to diabetes doesn't

fit the list's criteria. How does a discussion of carbohydrates and insulin

or medication doses have much to do with blindness after all? For me

personally, I find the data provided, in a textual format, where my screen

reader can access important data is very much related to diabetes and

blindness.

I have to think that there are blindness related lists where the discussion

of prosthetic eyes is probably more appropriate. If diabetes was an

underlying cause of eyeball degeneration, or diabetics with prosthetic eyes

had difficulties with infections and the such, this would be within the

list's criteria.

I hope this helps to clarify the point of view of at least one half of the

moderators. I'll attempt to have Tucker chime in if it seems it

might be helpful.

Dave

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

I couldn't have said this better myself. I too appreciate your hard work

for this group Dave. I have in the past dropped off of lists with no

moderator or where the moderator just lets off topic discussions go on for

so long that you can't even remember how it got started. While I enjoy the

humorous stories some have told about removing their prosthetic eye to prove

a point or lost one in a swimming pool, it probably is time to try to get

the focus back to diabetes. I belong to several lists and do not mind at

all if one goes quiet for a few days. There is no need to post something to

a list just for the sake of keeping emails coming.

I hope I haven't stepped on any toes by making the above remarks.

Becky

_____

From: blind-diabetics

[mailto:blind-diabetics ] On Behalf Of ruth hogue

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:45 PM

To: blind-diabetics

Subject: RE: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

Hi Dave,

I understand what you're trying to say and I hope no one gets discouraged

enough to leave. Prosthetic shells is related directly by the fact if I had

not lost my sight due to diabetes and then later had them cataract and

atrophy, I would not have needed the shells for my emotional health. We are

more the diabetes. However, where what you are saying is perfectly valid,

is the fact that after 1 or 2 stories about the shells, the stories kept

coming, almost like we were trying to see who could outdo one another.

Folks, let's try and keep things in perspective and not go overboard.

Dave, keep up the good work and thanks again for helping do this thankless

task.

Ruth

From: blind-diabetics@ <mailto:blind-diabetics%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

[mailto:blind-diabetics@ <mailto:blind-diabetics%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dave Bond

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:02 PM

To: blind-diabetics@ <mailto:blind-diabetics%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

the newer members aren't privy to some of the recent history of this list.

For a very long time, Tucker was an invisible moderator. People

weren't getting approved, and I managed to find her finally. I became a

co-moderator, and it was decided to change the approval process to instant

approval. Well, we started getting spammers. So, we went

back to need ing approval. My point is, I'm trying to do what moderators are

supposed to do. My understanding of that, based on the many, many lists I've

been on for nearly 18 years, is that they attempt to keep focus on the

list's prescribed topic and give the boot to people who cause trouble.

Having said this, the main problem with the very recent discussion is that

it went into this very off topic and personal rabbit trail thing. There's

nothing wrong with a list sitting quiet for a period of time. I've been on

this list for a long time, and we go through slow times, and we go through

busy times. I believe it's important to maintain a fair amount of strictness

to insure the list doesn't dissolve into some obscure undefined gathering

place where anyone can talk about anything.

It could be argued that discussing things related solely to diabetes doesn't

fit the list's criteria. How does a discussion of carbohydrates and insulin

or medication doses have much to do with blindness after all? For me

personally, I find the data provided, in a textual format, where my screen

reader can access important data is very much related to diabetes and

blindness.

I have to think that there are blindness related lists where the discussion

of prosthetic eyes is probably more appropriate. If diabetes was an

underlying cause of eyeball degeneration, or diabetics with prosthetic eyes

had difficulties with infections and the such, this would be within the

list's criteria.

I hope this helps to clarify the point of view of at least one half of the

moderators. I'll attempt to have Tucker chime in if it seems it

might be helpful.

Dave

Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated topics

Hi all,

I'm glad some have found some needed encouragement and been able to share

helpful information about " cosmetic shells: and a few other unrelated

subjects.

I would be remiss as a moderator if I failed to advise that the people

participating in these discussions take the discussion off list.

There are a lot of members who lurk, so it may appear that our numbers are

smaller than they appear. While discussion about prosthetic eyes is helpful

for a few, it is probably not helpful for the majority.

Let's keep the discussion related to being blind or visually impaired, and

how we deal with our diabetes.

Thanks.

Dave

[Guest guest]

One of the reasons we needed an active moderator for this list is to make

sure that things are kept on topic for the list. Being a moderator is a

thankless job and we all should be grateful for the job Dave is doing. I

think the point I got from Dave's admin message was that the discussion was

straying away from issues related to blind diabetics and that we should do

our best to keep things on topic.

The good thing about this list is it generally stays on topic and there are

very few off topic discussions. That is why I like this list in addition to

the good information we get here.

Putting OT in the subject line to indicate that it is off topic is not a

solution. This is not allowed on most lists and I don't want to waste time

deleting off topic messages to get to the messages that I want to read. It

would be a shame if that happens to the list.

I think Dave and are doing great as moderators and I think we should

take Dave's message in the spirit it was intended.

Re: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

My question here is how do we determine whether or not a topic is off topic?

Of course, if I were to begin a topic that asked for member thoughts on why

the Toronto Blue Jays are in last place when they were supposed to be a

playoff contender, it's a no brainer. Off topic it is. However, when a topic

is very much blindness and health related, I would have to say that it is

close enough. To me, a discussion of artificial eyes is about as blind a

topic as topics can get. No one else wears them. Therefore, no one else

talks about them. This list is probably as close as one can get to an

environment where quite a few folks might be interested in such a topic and

therefore feel comfortable in discussing it. Again, where else might we

discuss it? To me, the idea of half a dozen people or more taking the topic

to private email would be impractical.

I would have no problem at all in adding OT to any subject line that is not

directly related to both blindness and diabetes. I think it's a fine idea

which allows those who are not interested to easily skip over such topics.

Just one more thing here if I may.

During the past couple of days, no one else has introduced any other topic

for discussion. So again, I have to wonder just a bit about how this

discussion caused anyone inconvenience.Also, and again, this is just my

thought, a list is more or less defined by those who post in it. To me, if I

read posts but don't join in, I have less say in how the list is defined. Of

course, there's nothing wrong with reading posts only, as everyone should

feel welcomed and enjoy the right to find their comfort zone. But if I

wern't posting, I don't think I'd have a lot to say about the nature of the

posts that others offerd.

In the final analysis, it is always up to the moderators to decide what is

or is not to be allowed on any given list. It is then our right as members

to decide whether or not the parameters meed our needs. As for me, I like a

relacxed place where I can hang out, talk to good people and learn a thing

or 2 along the way. During the past couple of days, that's exactly what I've

been doing. But again, the final say belongs to the moderators who put in

the work to keep things going around here.

There's my 2 cents for you. Though it does seem that I start out giving my 2

cents and always end up giving a couple of dollars worth of my thoughts

instead. Ah but on the bright side, I never ask for change.

Larry

[Guest guest]

One of the reasons we needed an active moderator for this list is to make

sure that things are kept on topic for the list. Being a moderator is a

thankless job and we all should be grateful for the job Dave is doing. I

think the point I got from Dave's admin message was that the discussion was

straying away from issues related to blind diabetics and that we should do

our best to keep things on topic.

The good thing about this list is it generally stays on topic and there are

very few off topic discussions. That is why I like this list in addition to

the good information we get here.

Putting OT in the subject line to indicate that it is off topic is not a

solution. This is not allowed on most lists and I don't want to waste time

deleting off topic messages to get to the messages that I want to read. It

would be a shame if that happens to the list.

I think Dave and are doing great as moderators and I think we should

take Dave's message in the spirit it was intended.

Re: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

My question here is how do we determine whether or not a topic is off topic?

Of course, if I were to begin a topic that asked for member thoughts on why

the Toronto Blue Jays are in last place when they were supposed to be a

playoff contender, it's a no brainer. Off topic it is. However, when a topic

is very much blindness and health related, I would have to say that it is

close enough. To me, a discussion of artificial eyes is about as blind a

topic as topics can get. No one else wears them. Therefore, no one else

talks about them. This list is probably as close as one can get to an

environment where quite a few folks might be interested in such a topic and

therefore feel comfortable in discussing it. Again, where else might we

discuss it? To me, the idea of half a dozen people or more taking the topic

to private email would be impractical.

I would have no problem at all in adding OT to any subject line that is not

directly related to both blindness and diabetes. I think it's a fine idea

which allows those who are not interested to easily skip over such topics.

Just one more thing here if I may.

During the past couple of days, no one else has introduced any other topic

for discussion. So again, I have to wonder just a bit about how this

discussion caused anyone inconvenience.Also, and again, this is just my

thought, a list is more or less defined by those who post in it. To me, if I

read posts but don't join in, I have less say in how the list is defined. Of

course, there's nothing wrong with reading posts only, as everyone should

feel welcomed and enjoy the right to find their comfort zone. But if I

wern't posting, I don't think I'd have a lot to say about the nature of the

posts that others offerd.

In the final analysis, it is always up to the moderators to decide what is

or is not to be allowed on any given list. It is then our right as members

to decide whether or not the parameters meed our needs. As for me, I like a

relacxed place where I can hang out, talk to good people and learn a thing

or 2 along the way. During the past couple of days, that's exactly what I've

been doing. But again, the final say belongs to the moderators who put in

the work to keep things going around here.

There's my 2 cents for you. Though it does seem that I start out giving my 2

cents and always end up giving a couple of dollars worth of my thoughts

instead. Ah but on the bright side, I never ask for change.

Larry

[Guest guest]

One of the reasons we needed an active moderator for this list is to make

sure that things are kept on topic for the list. Being a moderator is a

thankless job and we all should be grateful for the job Dave is doing. I

think the point I got from Dave's admin message was that the discussion was

straying away from issues related to blind diabetics and that we should do

our best to keep things on topic.

The good thing about this list is it generally stays on topic and there are

very few off topic discussions. That is why I like this list in addition to

the good information we get here.

Putting OT in the subject line to indicate that it is off topic is not a

solution. This is not allowed on most lists and I don't want to waste time

deleting off topic messages to get to the messages that I want to read. It

would be a shame if that happens to the list.

I think Dave and are doing great as moderators and I think we should

take Dave's message in the spirit it was intended.

Re: Admin: cosmetic shells and other unrelated

topics

My question here is how do we determine whether or not a topic is off topic?

Of course, if I were to begin a topic that asked for member thoughts on why

the Toronto Blue Jays are in last place when they were supposed to be a

playoff contender, it's a no brainer. Off topic it is. However, when a topic

is very much blindness and health related, I would have to say that it is

close enough. To me, a discussion of artificial eyes is about as blind a

topic as topics can get. No one else wears them. Therefore, no one else

talks about them. This list is probably as close as one can get to an

environment where quite a few folks might be interested in such a topic and

therefore feel comfortable in discussing it. Again, where else might we

discuss it? To me, the idea of half a dozen people or more taking the topic

to private email would be impractical.

I would have no problem at all in adding OT to any subject line that is not

directly related to both blindness and diabetes. I think it's a fine idea

which allows those who are not interested to easily skip over such topics.

Just one more thing here if I may.

During the past couple of days, no one else has introduced any other topic

for discussion. So again, I have to wonder just a bit about how this

discussion caused anyone inconvenience.Also, and again, this is just my

thought, a list is more or less defined by those who post in it. To me, if I

read posts but don't join in, I have less say in how the list is defined. Of

course, there's nothing wrong with reading posts only, as everyone should

feel welcomed and enjoy the right to find their comfort zone. But if I

wern't posting, I don't think I'd have a lot to say about the nature of the

posts that others offerd.

In the final analysis, it is always up to the moderators to decide what is

or is not to be allowed on any given list. It is then our right as members

to decide whether or not the parameters meed our needs. As for me, I like a

relacxed place where I can hang out, talk to good people and learn a thing

or 2 along the way. During the past couple of days, that's exactly what I've

been doing. But again, the final say belongs to the moderators who put in

the work to keep things going around here.

There's my 2 cents for you. Though it does seem that I start out giving my 2

cents and always end up giving a couple of dollars worth of my thoughts

instead. Ah but on the bright side, I never ask for change.

Larry