Guest guest Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Group, Respectfully, I disagree with the statement below. Medicare already pays us way below what most of us fairly charge. Depending on your region and type of practice the wages that PTs and PTAs make can range widely. In my area we pay very competitive wages for our hospital based practice. Go across the street from my practice and you may find that the private, for profit nursing home is paying anywhere from $5-10 more per hour for a PT or PTA. This has to do with the nursing homes having to pay a huge amount to a PT to come in and work under productivity standards in the 85% range and patient care being bottom line driven by corporate suits. This, I've found, leads to high turnover rates in the nursing home setting. The nursing home administrators know that their bottom line will be much better if they staff largely with PTAs because they can pay the PTAs substantially less and charge the same. All the while they know that they will not get anywhere close to what they charge because of Medicare's reimbursement rate. In my Critical Access Hospital setting Medicare supposedly pays us our cost of doing business + 1%. This is supposed to be better than the fee schedule!!! I have worked with many PTAs in my 14 years of practice. PTAs are valuable and skilled. I've worked with many that are exceptional clinicians; some with better skills than PTs I've worked with. I think it will do nothing but benefti PTAs and our profession if the training in PTA programs is increased. I also think that we are hurting our profession if we dismiss the value that PTAs bring to our profession. In response to the initial question in this thread by Ms. Arney...I would be happy to discuss how we utilize PTAs and wage ranges for such staff. Please feel free to e-mail me directly. To all, have a wonderful Thanksgiving! Sincerely, Chad Yoakam, MS, PT Manager of Rehabilitation Services Livingston HealthCare Orthopedic & Rehabilitation Institute ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of jcohen135 Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 5:55 AM To: PTManager Subject: Re: Hiring of a PTA Medicare should change the reimbursement rates to reflect the disparate levels of education between PT and PTA providers. Wasn't there talk about this occurring at some point? I remember getting paid $25 as a staff PT not that long ago. Cohen PT, MS Owner Mobile Rehab LLC Pittsboro, NC > > I know that PTA's down here are starting out at $25 an hour in the nursing homes. I know this because I personally know two that were just hired this spring at those rates and these were brand new grads!! I also personally know a speech therapist that runs a nursing home rehab dept and she stated that it's becoming cut throat and one nursing home is now starting to go to $27 an hour to new grad PTA's. Crazy. > > Matt Capo, PT > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > > > > > > > Hiring of a PTA > > > > > > Hello Group, > > We are a small spine specialty practice and our Tech is leaving for PA School. We are considering hiring a PTA for the first time. Any words of advice? > From my understanding it is still billed out under our P.T.? We just have to fax the insurance company the name and have them linked to our P.T. > > Also trying to get a fair hourly rate. We do not offer health benefits and are looking at around 30 hours per week. > > Any input would be appreciated. > (We do not accept Medicare and the PT would always be there) > > Arney > Exclusively Spine P.T. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Group, Respectfully, I disagree with the statement below. Medicare already pays us way below what most of us fairly charge. Depending on your region and type of practice the wages that PTs and PTAs make can range widely. In my area we pay very competitive wages for our hospital based practice. Go across the street from my practice and you may find that the private, for profit nursing home is paying anywhere from $5-10 more per hour for a PT or PTA. This has to do with the nursing homes having to pay a huge amount to a PT to come in and work under productivity standards in the 85% range and patient care being bottom line driven by corporate suits. This, I've found, leads to high turnover rates in the nursing home setting. The nursing home administrators know that their bottom line will be much better if they staff largely with PTAs because they can pay the PTAs substantially less and charge the same. All the while they know that they will not get anywhere close to what they charge because of Medicare's reimbursement rate. In my Critical Access Hospital setting Medicare supposedly pays us our cost of doing business + 1%. This is supposed to be better than the fee schedule!!! I have worked with many PTAs in my 14 years of practice. PTAs are valuable and skilled. I've worked with many that are exceptional clinicians; some with better skills than PTs I've worked with. I think it will do nothing but benefti PTAs and our profession if the training in PTA programs is increased. I also think that we are hurting our profession if we dismiss the value that PTAs bring to our profession. In response to the initial question in this thread by Ms. Arney...I would be happy to discuss how we utilize PTAs and wage ranges for such staff. Please feel free to e-mail me directly. To all, have a wonderful Thanksgiving! Sincerely, Chad Yoakam, MS, PT Manager of Rehabilitation Services Livingston HealthCare Orthopedic & Rehabilitation Institute ________________________________ From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of jcohen135 Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 5:55 AM To: PTManager Subject: Re: Hiring of a PTA Medicare should change the reimbursement rates to reflect the disparate levels of education between PT and PTA providers. Wasn't there talk about this occurring at some point? I remember getting paid $25 as a staff PT not that long ago. Cohen PT, MS Owner Mobile Rehab LLC Pittsboro, NC > > I know that PTA's down here are starting out at $25 an hour in the nursing homes. I know this because I personally know two that were just hired this spring at those rates and these were brand new grads!! I also personally know a speech therapist that runs a nursing home rehab dept and she stated that it's becoming cut throat and one nursing home is now starting to go to $27 an hour to new grad PTA's. Crazy. > > Matt Capo, PT > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > > > > > > > Hiring of a PTA > > > > > > Hello Group, > > We are a small spine specialty practice and our Tech is leaving for PA School. We are considering hiring a PTA for the first time. Any words of advice? > From my understanding it is still billed out under our P.T.? We just have to fax the insurance company the name and have them linked to our P.T. > > Also trying to get a fair hourly rate. We do not offer health benefits and are looking at around 30 hours per week. > > Any input would be appreciated. > (We do not accept Medicare and the PT would always be there) > > Arney > Exclusively Spine P.T. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 The disparity has been in place for a long time and entry level wages have been out of step with educational costs for several years. The problem is not that PTA's are too high but that PT is way too low. In a complete 100% medicare environment, benchmark data shows the max earnings power of a PT to be around 65k (confirmed by external analysis) and that is before any future cuts. The differences between PTA and PT pay should be much greater reflecting not only the obvious education and licensing differences but the huge differences in who ultimately bears responsibility for the patient. The cultural shift that needs to occur with our profession is the implicit notion that the PT bears the burden for everything that occurs with the patient regardless of what services are delegated to a PTA or to a non PTA in a non medicare environment. We need a campaign that reflects who signs for the work. Nobody questions this in a physician climate but for many reasons, including the unintended consequences of inconsistent medicare policies, the distinction is often blurred in our environment. Larry Benz PT, DPT PT Development LLC CONFIDENTIALITY: This message is " Off The Record " . A lot of fancy legal speak that none of us reads or understands is often contained here. On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chad Yoakam < chad.yoakam@...> wrote: > ** > > > Group, > Respectfully, I disagree with the statement below. Medicare already > pays us way below what most of us fairly charge. Depending on your > region and type of practice the wages that PTs and PTAs make can range > widely. In my area we pay very competitive wages for our hospital based > practice. Go across the street from my practice and you may find that > the private, for profit nursing home is paying anywhere from $5-10 more > per hour for a PT or PTA. This has to do with the nursing homes > having to pay a huge amount to a PT to come in and work under > productivity standards in the 85% range and patient care being bottom > line driven by corporate suits. This, I've found, leads to high > turnover rates in the nursing home setting. The nursing home > administrators know that their bottom line will be much better if they > staff largely with PTAs because they can pay the PTAs substantially less > and charge the same. All the while they know that they will not get > anywhere close to what they charge because of Medicare's reimbursement > rate. In my Critical Access Hospital setting Medicare supposedly pays > us our cost of doing business + 1%. This is supposed to be better than > the fee schedule!!! > > I have worked with many PTAs in my 14 years of practice. PTAs are > valuable and skilled. I've worked with many that are exceptional > clinicians; some with better skills than PTs I've worked with. I think > it will do nothing but benefti PTAs and our profession if the training > in PTA programs is increased. I also think that we are hurting our > profession if we dismiss the value that PTAs bring to our profession. > > In response to the initial question in this thread by Ms. Arney...I > would be happy to discuss how we utilize PTAs and wage ranges for such > staff. Please feel free to e-mail me directly. > > To all, have a wonderful Thanksgiving! > > Sincerely, > > Chad Yoakam, MS, PT > Manager of Rehabilitation Services > Livingston HealthCare Orthopedic & Rehabilitation Institute > ________________________________ > > From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On > Behalf Of jcohen135 > Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 5:55 AM > To: PTManager > Subject: Re: Hiring of a PTA > > Medicare should change the reimbursement rates to reflect the disparate > levels of education between PT and PTA providers. Wasn't there talk > about this occurring at some point? I remember getting paid $25 as a > staff PT not that long ago. > > Cohen PT, MS > Owner Mobile Rehab LLC > Pittsboro, NC > > > > > > I know that PTA's down here are starting out at $25 an hour in the > nursing homes. I know this because I personally know two that were just > hired this spring at those rates and these were brand new grads!! I also > personally know a speech therapist that runs a nursing home rehab dept > and she stated that it's becoming cut throat and one nursing home is now > starting to go to $27 an hour to new grad PTA's. Crazy. > > > > Matt Capo, PT > > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hiring of a PTA > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Group, > > > > We are a small spine specialty practice and our Tech is leaving for PA > School. We are considering hiring a PTA for the first time. Any words of > advice? > > From my understanding it is still billed out under our P.T.? We just > have to fax the insurance company the name and have them linked to our > P.T. > > > > Also trying to get a fair hourly rate. We do not offer health benefits > and are looking at around 30 hours per week. > > > > Any input would be appreciated. > > (We do not accept Medicare and the PT would always be there) > > > > Arney > > Exclusively Spine P.T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 The disparity has been in place for a long time and entry level wages have been out of step with educational costs for several years. The problem is not that PTA's are too high but that PT is way too low. In a complete 100% medicare environment, benchmark data shows the max earnings power of a PT to be around 65k (confirmed by external analysis) and that is before any future cuts. The differences between PTA and PT pay should be much greater reflecting not only the obvious education and licensing differences but the huge differences in who ultimately bears responsibility for the patient. The cultural shift that needs to occur with our profession is the implicit notion that the PT bears the burden for everything that occurs with the patient regardless of what services are delegated to a PTA or to a non PTA in a non medicare environment. We need a campaign that reflects who signs for the work. Nobody questions this in a physician climate but for many reasons, including the unintended consequences of inconsistent medicare policies, the distinction is often blurred in our environment. Larry Benz PT, DPT PT Development LLC CONFIDENTIALITY: This message is " Off The Record " . A lot of fancy legal speak that none of us reads or understands is often contained here. On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chad Yoakam < chad.yoakam@...> wrote: > ** > > > Group, > Respectfully, I disagree with the statement below. Medicare already > pays us way below what most of us fairly charge. Depending on your > region and type of practice the wages that PTs and PTAs make can range > widely. In my area we pay very competitive wages for our hospital based > practice. Go across the street from my practice and you may find that > the private, for profit nursing home is paying anywhere from $5-10 more > per hour for a PT or PTA. This has to do with the nursing homes > having to pay a huge amount to a PT to come in and work under > productivity standards in the 85% range and patient care being bottom > line driven by corporate suits. This, I've found, leads to high > turnover rates in the nursing home setting. The nursing home > administrators know that their bottom line will be much better if they > staff largely with PTAs because they can pay the PTAs substantially less > and charge the same. All the while they know that they will not get > anywhere close to what they charge because of Medicare's reimbursement > rate. In my Critical Access Hospital setting Medicare supposedly pays > us our cost of doing business + 1%. This is supposed to be better than > the fee schedule!!! > > I have worked with many PTAs in my 14 years of practice. PTAs are > valuable and skilled. I've worked with many that are exceptional > clinicians; some with better skills than PTs I've worked with. I think > it will do nothing but benefti PTAs and our profession if the training > in PTA programs is increased. I also think that we are hurting our > profession if we dismiss the value that PTAs bring to our profession. > > In response to the initial question in this thread by Ms. Arney...I > would be happy to discuss how we utilize PTAs and wage ranges for such > staff. Please feel free to e-mail me directly. > > To all, have a wonderful Thanksgiving! > > Sincerely, > > Chad Yoakam, MS, PT > Manager of Rehabilitation Services > Livingston HealthCare Orthopedic & Rehabilitation Institute > ________________________________ > > From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On > Behalf Of jcohen135 > Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 5:55 AM > To: PTManager > Subject: Re: Hiring of a PTA > > Medicare should change the reimbursement rates to reflect the disparate > levels of education between PT and PTA providers. Wasn't there talk > about this occurring at some point? I remember getting paid $25 as a > staff PT not that long ago. > > Cohen PT, MS > Owner Mobile Rehab LLC > Pittsboro, NC > > > > > > I know that PTA's down here are starting out at $25 an hour in the > nursing homes. I know this because I personally know two that were just > hired this spring at those rates and these were brand new grads!! I also > personally know a speech therapist that runs a nursing home rehab dept > and she stated that it's becoming cut throat and one nursing home is now > starting to go to $27 an hour to new grad PTA's. Crazy. > > > > Matt Capo, PT > > Accelerated Physical Therapy and Occupational Health, Inc. > > Bay St. Louis and Diamondhead, Mississippi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hiring of a PTA > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Group, > > > > We are a small spine specialty practice and our Tech is leaving for PA > School. We are considering hiring a PTA for the first time. Any words of > advice? > > From my understanding it is still billed out under our P.T.? We just > have to fax the insurance company the name and have them linked to our > P.T. > > > > Also trying to get a fair hourly rate. We do not offer health benefits > and are looking at around 30 hours per week. > > > > Any input would be appreciated. > > (We do not accept Medicare and the PT would always be there) > > > > Arney > > Exclusively Spine P.T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 The Bureau of Labor Statistics say a PT earns about $72K. Hiring of a PTA > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Group, > > > > We are a small spine specialty practice and our Tech is leaving for PA > School. We are considering hiring a PTA for the first time. Any words of > advice? > > From my understanding it is still billed out under our P.T.? We just > have to fax the insurance company the name and have them linked to our > P.T. > > > > Also trying to get a fair hourly rate. We do not offer health benefits > and are looking at around 30 hours per week. > > > > Any input would be appreciated. > > (We do not accept Medicare and the PT would always be there) > > > > Arney > > Exclusively Spine P.T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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