RE: Healthcare Reform

[Guest guest]

/ " 37 million uninsured is a little skewed. "

/There is a phrase about lies... You have " Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics "

Anyone can find a stat out there to support their argument, I try not to

focus on

statistics as most are skewed anyway. I look at why I believe a certain

way.

Is it self preservation that I fear a nationalized health service? Will

my income

be drastically cut? By thinking like that I bias myself and am not

being objective.

Last I looked the US was ranked 37th in the world for health care, I

think France

was number one. Why is that? If I was going to go into a debate about this

I would research what places like France is doing if they are indeed at the

top of the list.

While there is no perfect system out there, ours does need a lot of

work. It will

be interesting to see what happens. I do believe left to run its

course as is, it will fail miserably.

Wade , PT

Oregon

Hill wrote:

>

>

> 37 million uninsured is a little skewed. .....<snip>.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

/ " 37 million uninsured is a little skewed. "

/There is a phrase about lies... You have " Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics "

Anyone can find a stat out there to support their argument, I try not to

focus on

statistics as most are skewed anyway. I look at why I believe a certain

way.

Is it self preservation that I fear a nationalized health service? Will

my income

be drastically cut? By thinking like that I bias myself and am not

being objective.

Last I looked the US was ranked 37th in the world for health care, I

think France

was number one. Why is that? If I was going to go into a debate about this

I would research what places like France is doing if they are indeed at the

top of the list.

While there is no perfect system out there, ours does need a lot of

work. It will

be interesting to see what happens. I do believe left to run its

course as is, it will fail miserably.

Wade , PT

Oregon

Hill wrote:

>

>

> 37 million uninsured is a little skewed. .....<snip>.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

/ " 37 million uninsured is a little skewed. "

/There is a phrase about lies... You have " Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics "

Anyone can find a stat out there to support their argument, I try not to

focus on

statistics as most are skewed anyway. I look at why I believe a certain

way.

Is it self preservation that I fear a nationalized health service? Will

my income

be drastically cut? By thinking like that I bias myself and am not

being objective.

Last I looked the US was ranked 37th in the world for health care, I

think France

was number one. Why is that? If I was going to go into a debate about this

I would research what places like France is doing if they are indeed at the

top of the list.

While there is no perfect system out there, ours does need a lot of

work. It will

be interesting to see what happens. I do believe left to run its

course as is, it will fail miserably.

Wade , PT

Oregon

Hill wrote:

>

>

> 37 million uninsured is a little skewed. .....<snip>.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

" Also, I have several colleagues (physicians and therapists) that have

worked in the Canadian and European model as healthcare providers. "

That is an excellent point.  How many people know a U.S. citizen who has moved

to a single-payer system to practice?  Since the business success and the

quality of any product is related to the satisfaction of the people in the

field, should this tell us anything about a single-payer system vs. our system? 

But, if we think that Amtrak, the Veterans Administration, Social Security, the

Postal Service, and the various government-sponsored social insurance programs

are efficiently run and consistently produce a superior outcome, then a

government-run system might not be too bad.  Of course, we have to overlook the

issue of mortgaging the financial futures of our grandchildren

Darrell Schapmire, MS X-RTS Software Products & Testing Devices PO Box 171,

128 Madison Street Hopedale, IL  61747 Phone Fax

www.xrts.com   If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please

destroy it.  It may contain private or proprietary information to which you are

not entitled.  You may be subject to civil and/or criminal prosecution for

unauthorized use of the information contained herein or for its transfer to

another party.

Subject: Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager

Cc: kathyclarke@...

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:26 AM

Hi Kathy

Thanks for you comments.... ......... turns out this is continuing to be quite a

healthy discussion on the listserve... .......to your point regarding YOU having

to wait for 3 months to get into a physician (in your semi-rural area).

Wouldn't you agree that this seems as if it is a severe shortage of physicians

issue rather than a flaw in the healthcare coverage/insurance.

I live in a rural area myself, and getting into a specialist is typically no

more than a month....... ....if it's more of an acute condition, we can most

times get a patient in quicker (1-2 weeks). And that's even with us being short

on physicians to some degree, ourselves.

Also, I have several colleagues (physicians and therapists) that have worked in

the Canadian and European model as healthcare providers... ......... ....Each of

them agree that we don't want to adopt that model in it's absolute form as

is.......they cite the same reasons many others on this listserve do.

I think we ALL agree that there needs to be changes..... .BIG Changes.....

.......... I thought, on the surface, the writer who made the point of the

" Hybrid " model, had some good thoughts.

In summary..... ......... I just think that " if " , and it looks as though,

" when " ----the government takes over and nationalizes things, we are in for a

world of hurt long term. History proves that........ .the government is

broke.....they admit that.......obviousl y resource management is not their

strong suit.

Kevyn Soupiset

Progressive Therapy & Sports Medicine

Larned, KS

[Guest guest]

Tom,

" There has been discussion in the last few days about individuals making the

right choice but are we sure they always can? "

That question is right on point.  Here are a coupe more questions that need to

be answered:  Do we think that the kind of sprawling bureaucracy that brought us

the debacle of the response to Katrina can make better decisions than

individuals?  Do we think that the ineptitude of a government that is at least

halfway responsible for the current mess is capable of making decisions for

individuals?  Do we believe that the failure of some individuals to act

responsibly in making decisions warrants group punishment for the rest of the

country?  Do we believe that any government, regardless as to which party is in

charge, is capable of making----or, indeed, should attempt to make----life and

death decisions regarding the health of the individuals in the country?  Is this

government going to remain an " Uncle Sam " ----a distant relative that knows his

limits----or become an all-intrusive, busybody nanny?

Darrell Schapmire, MS X-RTS Software Products & Testing Devices PO Box 171,

128 Madison Street Hopedale, IL  61747 Phone Fax

www.xrts.com   If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please

destroy it.  It may contain private or proprietary information to which you are

not entitled.  You may be subject to civil and/or criminal prosecution for

unauthorized use of the information contained herein or for its transfer to

another party.

Subject: Healthcare reform

To: PTManager

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:40 AM

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowellfiberpipe (DOT) net

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

Tom,

" There has been discussion in the last few days about individuals making the

right choice but are we sure they always can? "

That question is right on point.  Here are a coupe more questions that need to

be answered:  Do we think that the kind of sprawling bureaucracy that brought us

the debacle of the response to Katrina can make better decisions than

individuals?  Do we think that the ineptitude of a government that is at least

halfway responsible for the current mess is capable of making decisions for

individuals?  Do we believe that the failure of some individuals to act

responsibly in making decisions warrants group punishment for the rest of the

country?  Do we believe that any government, regardless as to which party is in

charge, is capable of making----or, indeed, should attempt to make----life and

death decisions regarding the health of the individuals in the country?  Is this

government going to remain an " Uncle Sam " ----a distant relative that knows his

limits----or become an all-intrusive, busybody nanny?

Darrell Schapmire, MS X-RTS Software Products & Testing Devices PO Box 171,

128 Madison Street Hopedale, IL  61747 Phone Fax

www.xrts.com   If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please

destroy it.  It may contain private or proprietary information to which you are

not entitled.  You may be subject to civil and/or criminal prosecution for

unauthorized use of the information contained herein or for its transfer to

another party.

Subject: Healthcare reform

To: PTManager

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:40 AM

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowellfiberpipe (DOT) net

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

Some of these statements deserve explanation, like " We have had over 40 years of

'choice' and 'rights' to make the right choices... "

In fact, the past 40 years has been completely under the rule of mandated

insurance coverage and government-run insurance that has paid ONLY for

AMA-style medical care.

Other statements deserve citation, like " ...the tremendous drop in cancer rates

and heart disease. "

The CDC reports a drop in cancer incidence between 1999 and 2004 of a whopping 4

percent (http://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D28) and still considers

heart disease the leading cause of death in the United States. During that

supposedly golden 40-year period, before the recent miserly dip in cancer rates,

both these diseases (along with diabetes, autism, allergies, gut diseases, and

more) have seen rises into what can fairly be called epidemic proportions

(coincident, not incidentally, with the era when medical care has been literally

and figuratively " in charge " of our health).

And besides, even if it were true that medical care was making us healthy, it is

never true that government has the right to force somebody to utilize it. One

can think of it this way: Every man has the right to foul up his own life, and

the right to a government that will protect him from those who would foul it up

for him.

Dave Milano, PT

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowell@...<mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

Some of these statements deserve explanation, like " We have had over 40 years of

'choice' and 'rights' to make the right choices... "

In fact, the past 40 years has been completely under the rule of mandated

insurance coverage and government-run insurance that has paid ONLY for

AMA-style medical care.

Other statements deserve citation, like " ...the tremendous drop in cancer rates

and heart disease. "

The CDC reports a drop in cancer incidence between 1999 and 2004 of a whopping 4

percent (http://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D28) and still considers

heart disease the leading cause of death in the United States. During that

supposedly golden 40-year period, before the recent miserly dip in cancer rates,

both these diseases (along with diabetes, autism, allergies, gut diseases, and

more) have seen rises into what can fairly be called epidemic proportions

(coincident, not incidentally, with the era when medical care has been literally

and figuratively " in charge " of our health).

And besides, even if it were true that medical care was making us healthy, it is

never true that government has the right to force somebody to utilize it. One

can think of it this way: Every man has the right to foul up his own life, and

the right to a government that will protect him from those who would foul it up

for him.

Dave Milano, PT

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowell@...<mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

Some of these statements deserve explanation, like " We have had over 40 years of

'choice' and 'rights' to make the right choices... "

In fact, the past 40 years has been completely under the rule of mandated

insurance coverage and government-run insurance that has paid ONLY for

AMA-style medical care.

Other statements deserve citation, like " ...the tremendous drop in cancer rates

and heart disease. "

The CDC reports a drop in cancer incidence between 1999 and 2004 of a whopping 4

percent (http://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D28) and still considers

heart disease the leading cause of death in the United States. During that

supposedly golden 40-year period, before the recent miserly dip in cancer rates,

both these diseases (along with diabetes, autism, allergies, gut diseases, and

more) have seen rises into what can fairly be called epidemic proportions

(coincident, not incidentally, with the era when medical care has been literally

and figuratively " in charge " of our health).

And besides, even if it were true that medical care was making us healthy, it is

never true that government has the right to force somebody to utilize it. One

can think of it this way: Every man has the right to foul up his own life, and

the right to a government that will protect him from those who would foul it up

for him.

Dave Milano, PT

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowell@...<mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

All;

Just want to emphasize that I would like to push for legal authority governing

insurance to move from the state level to the federal level.? I love the

conversation that has engaged on this issue, but am not advocating a single

payer source.? I would like to have a comprehensive Medical policy because each

insurance company sets up their Medical policy and the states pretty much leave

them alone (unless a patient files a complaint tothe insurance commission).?

Insurance companies have deeper pockets, better PAC's supporting state

candidates and better results in disputes with providers.? Imagine if the

Medicare Cap, Appeal Processes and Medical Necessity Guidelines were mandated

for all insurance companies nationwide.? Would we like them?? While they are far

from perfect, they are probably the most understood and best defined Medical

Policies in existence.? Can they be changed?? Yes, over time and dialoguing with

CMS.

Now, imagine that CMS was terminated by our federal government and Medicare,

Medicaid and Humana were turned over to the states to regulate.? WOW!? 50 new

medical policies in constant change with little (if any) governance from the

state legislators.? Our Federal Govenment has NO AUTHORITY OVER BLUE CROSS OF

ANY STATE.? Or any other commercial insurer.? They write their Medical Policy to

suit their needs (sometimes with provider input, sometimes disregarding provider

input).

Jim <///><

Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager

Cc: kathyclarke@...

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:26 AM

Hi Kathy

Thanks for you comments.... ......... turns out this is continuing to be quite a

healthy discussion on the listserve... .......to your point regarding YOU having

to wait for 3 months to get into a physician (in your semi-rural area). Wouldn't

you agree that this seems as if it is a severe shortage of physicians issue

rather than a flaw in the healthcare coverage/insurance.

I live in a rural area myself, and getting into a specialist is typically no

more than a month....... ....if it's more of an acute condition, we can most

times get a patient in quicker (1-2 weeks). And that's even with us being short

on physicians to some degree, ourselves.

Also, I have several colleagues (physicians and therapists) that have worked in

the Canadian and European model as healthcare providers... ......... ....Each of

them agree that we don't want to adopt that model in it's absolute form as

is.......they cite the same reasons many others on this listserve do.

I think we ALL agree that there needs to be changes..... .BIG Changes.....

.......... I thought, on the surface, the writer who made the point of the

" Hybrid " model, had some good thoughts.

In summary..... ......... I just think that " if " , and it looks as though,

" when " ----the government takes over and nationalizes things, we are in for a

world of hurt long term. History proves that........ .the government is

broke.....they admit that.......obviousl y resource management is not their

strong suit.

Kevyn Soupiset

Progressive Therapy & Sports Medicine

Larned, KS

[Guest guest]

All;

Just want to emphasize that I would like to push for legal authority governing

insurance to move from the state level to the federal level.? I love the

conversation that has engaged on this issue, but am not advocating a single

payer source.? I would like to have a comprehensive Medical policy because each

insurance company sets up their Medical policy and the states pretty much leave

them alone (unless a patient files a complaint tothe insurance commission).?

Insurance companies have deeper pockets, better PAC's supporting state

candidates and better results in disputes with providers.? Imagine if the

Medicare Cap, Appeal Processes and Medical Necessity Guidelines were mandated

for all insurance companies nationwide.? Would we like them?? While they are far

from perfect, they are probably the most understood and best defined Medical

Policies in existence.? Can they be changed?? Yes, over time and dialoguing with

CMS.

Now, imagine that CMS was terminated by our federal government and Medicare,

Medicaid and Humana were turned over to the states to regulate.? WOW!? 50 new

medical policies in constant change with little (if any) governance from the

state legislators.? Our Federal Govenment has NO AUTHORITY OVER BLUE CROSS OF

ANY STATE.? Or any other commercial insurer.? They write their Medical Policy to

suit their needs (sometimes with provider input, sometimes disregarding provider

input).

Jim <///><

Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager

Cc: kathyclarke@...

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:26 AM

Hi Kathy

Thanks for you comments.... ......... turns out this is continuing to be quite a

healthy discussion on the listserve... .......to your point regarding YOU having

to wait for 3 months to get into a physician (in your semi-rural area). Wouldn't

you agree that this seems as if it is a severe shortage of physicians issue

rather than a flaw in the healthcare coverage/insurance.

I live in a rural area myself, and getting into a specialist is typically no

more than a month....... ....if it's more of an acute condition, we can most

times get a patient in quicker (1-2 weeks). And that's even with us being short

on physicians to some degree, ourselves.

Also, I have several colleagues (physicians and therapists) that have worked in

the Canadian and European model as healthcare providers... ......... ....Each of

them agree that we don't want to adopt that model in it's absolute form as

is.......they cite the same reasons many others on this listserve do.

I think we ALL agree that there needs to be changes..... .BIG Changes.....

.......... I thought, on the surface, the writer who made the point of the

" Hybrid " model, had some good thoughts.

In summary..... ......... I just think that " if " , and it looks as though,

" when " ----the government takes over and nationalizes things, we are in for a

world of hurt long term. History proves that........ .the government is

broke.....they admit that.......obviousl y resource management is not their

strong suit.

Kevyn Soupiset

Progressive Therapy & Sports Medicine

Larned, KS

[Guest guest]

All;

Just want to emphasize that I would like to push for legal authority governing

insurance to move from the state level to the federal level.? I love the

conversation that has engaged on this issue, but am not advocating a single

payer source.? I would like to have a comprehensive Medical policy because each

insurance company sets up their Medical policy and the states pretty much leave

them alone (unless a patient files a complaint tothe insurance commission).?

Insurance companies have deeper pockets, better PAC's supporting state

candidates and better results in disputes with providers.? Imagine if the

Medicare Cap, Appeal Processes and Medical Necessity Guidelines were mandated

for all insurance companies nationwide.? Would we like them?? While they are far

from perfect, they are probably the most understood and best defined Medical

Policies in existence.? Can they be changed?? Yes, over time and dialoguing with

CMS.

Now, imagine that CMS was terminated by our federal government and Medicare,

Medicaid and Humana were turned over to the states to regulate.? WOW!? 50 new

medical policies in constant change with little (if any) governance from the

state legislators.? Our Federal Govenment has NO AUTHORITY OVER BLUE CROSS OF

ANY STATE.? Or any other commercial insurer.? They write their Medical Policy to

suit their needs (sometimes with provider input, sometimes disregarding provider

input).

Jim <///><

Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager

Cc: kathyclarke@...

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:26 AM

Hi Kathy

Thanks for you comments.... ......... turns out this is continuing to be quite a

healthy discussion on the listserve... .......to your point regarding YOU having

to wait for 3 months to get into a physician (in your semi-rural area). Wouldn't

you agree that this seems as if it is a severe shortage of physicians issue

rather than a flaw in the healthcare coverage/insurance.

I live in a rural area myself, and getting into a specialist is typically no

more than a month....... ....if it's more of an acute condition, we can most

times get a patient in quicker (1-2 weeks). And that's even with us being short

on physicians to some degree, ourselves.

Also, I have several colleagues (physicians and therapists) that have worked in

the Canadian and European model as healthcare providers... ......... ....Each of

them agree that we don't want to adopt that model in it's absolute form as

is.......they cite the same reasons many others on this listserve do.

I think we ALL agree that there needs to be changes..... .BIG Changes.....

.......... I thought, on the surface, the writer who made the point of the

" Hybrid " model, had some good thoughts.

In summary..... ......... I just think that " if " , and it looks as though,

" when " ----the government takes over and nationalizes things, we are in for a

world of hurt long term. History proves that........ .the government is

broke.....they admit that.......obviousl y resource management is not their

strong suit.

Kevyn Soupiset

Progressive Therapy & Sports Medicine

Larned, KS

[Guest guest]

And so, the underlying issue Jim, is states rights vs federal and who

gets to call the shots. I agree it would be better than what we have,

but don't know if it is doable.

Sara Ehlert, PT

North Valley Hospital

Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Cc: kathyclarke@... <mailto:kathyclarke%40prodigy.net>

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:26 AM

Hi Kathy

Thanks for you comments.... ......... turns out this is continuing to be

quite a healthy discussion on the listserve... .......to your point

regarding YOU having to wait for 3 months to get into a physician (in

your semi-rural area). Wouldn't you agree that this seems as if it is a

severe shortage of physicians issue rather than a flaw in the healthcare

coverage/insurance.

I live in a rural area myself, and getting into a specialist is

typically no more than a month....... ....if it's more of an acute

condition, we can most times get a patient in quicker (1-2 weeks). And

that's even with us being short on physicians to some degree, ourselves.

Also, I have several colleagues (physicians and therapists) that have

worked in the Canadian and European model as healthcare providers...

.......... ....Each of them agree that we don't want to adopt that model

in it's absolute form as is.......they cite the same reasons many others

on this listserve do.

I think we ALL agree that there needs to be changes..... .BIG

Changes..... ......... I thought, on the surface, the writer who made

the point of the " Hybrid " model, had some good thoughts.

In summary..... ......... I just think that " if " , and it looks as

though, " when " ----the government takes over and nationalizes things, we

are in for a world of hurt long term. History proves that........ .the

government is broke.....they admit that.......obviousl y resource

management is not their strong suit.

Kevyn Soupiset

Progressive Therapy & Sports Medicine

Larned, KS

[Guest guest]

And so, the underlying issue Jim, is states rights vs federal and who

gets to call the shots. I agree it would be better than what we have,

but don't know if it is doable.

Sara Ehlert, PT

North Valley Hospital

Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Cc: kathyclarke@... <mailto:kathyclarke%40prodigy.net>

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:26 AM

Hi Kathy

Thanks for you comments.... ......... turns out this is continuing to be

quite a healthy discussion on the listserve... .......to your point

regarding YOU having to wait for 3 months to get into a physician (in

your semi-rural area). Wouldn't you agree that this seems as if it is a

severe shortage of physicians issue rather than a flaw in the healthcare

coverage/insurance.

I live in a rural area myself, and getting into a specialist is

typically no more than a month....... ....if it's more of an acute

condition, we can most times get a patient in quicker (1-2 weeks). And

that's even with us being short on physicians to some degree, ourselves.

Also, I have several colleagues (physicians and therapists) that have

worked in the Canadian and European model as healthcare providers...

.......... ....Each of them agree that we don't want to adopt that model

in it's absolute form as is.......they cite the same reasons many others

on this listserve do.

I think we ALL agree that there needs to be changes..... .BIG

Changes..... ......... I thought, on the surface, the writer who made

the point of the " Hybrid " model, had some good thoughts.

In summary..... ......... I just think that " if " , and it looks as

though, " when " ----the government takes over and nationalizes things, we

are in for a world of hurt long term. History proves that........ .the

government is broke.....they admit that.......obviousl y resource

management is not their strong suit.

Kevyn Soupiset

Progressive Therapy & Sports Medicine

Larned, KS

[Guest guest]

And so, the underlying issue Jim, is states rights vs federal and who

gets to call the shots. I agree it would be better than what we have,

but don't know if it is doable.

Sara Ehlert, PT

North Valley Hospital

Healthcare Reform

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Cc: kathyclarke@... <mailto:kathyclarke%40prodigy.net>

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:26 AM

Hi Kathy

Thanks for you comments.... ......... turns out this is continuing to be

quite a healthy discussion on the listserve... .......to your point

regarding YOU having to wait for 3 months to get into a physician (in

your semi-rural area). Wouldn't you agree that this seems as if it is a

severe shortage of physicians issue rather than a flaw in the healthcare

coverage/insurance.

I live in a rural area myself, and getting into a specialist is

typically no more than a month....... ....if it's more of an acute

condition, we can most times get a patient in quicker (1-2 weeks). And

that's even with us being short on physicians to some degree, ourselves.

Also, I have several colleagues (physicians and therapists) that have

worked in the Canadian and European model as healthcare providers...

.......... ....Each of them agree that we don't want to adopt that model

in it's absolute form as is.......they cite the same reasons many others

on this listserve do.

I think we ALL agree that there needs to be changes..... .BIG

Changes..... ......... I thought, on the surface, the writer who made

the point of the " Hybrid " model, had some good thoughts.

In summary..... ......... I just think that " if " , and it looks as

though, " when " ----the government takes over and nationalizes things, we

are in for a world of hurt long term. History proves that........ .the

government is broke.....they admit that.......obviousl y resource

management is not their strong suit.

Kevyn Soupiset

Progressive Therapy & Sports Medicine

Larned, KS

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

My point still is that we need to move past the fear and the statement of

problems (we all know what they are) and trust the leadership we have

elected to work on solutions. We have given every opportunity to the

insurance industry to physicians and even to ourselves to solve the problem

and we have failed. Something has to be done and like it or not the

government is right now the best chance that we have. If you are scared of

what the government will be doing, then make your voice known and

participate in contacting Congress. That is your right as well.

The APTA rally for healthcare is tomorrow and is open to members and

non-members. Have you signed up??

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, ID

thowell@...

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

_____

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of Milano, Dave

Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:13 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: RE: Healthcare reform

Some of these statements deserve explanation, like " We have had over 40

years of 'choice' and 'rights' to make the right choices... "

In fact, the past 40 years has been completely under the rule of mandated

insurance coverage and government-run insurance that has paid ONLY for

AMA-style medical care.

Other statements deserve citation, like " ...the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. "

The CDC reports a drop in cancer incidence between 1999 and 2004 of a

whopping 4 percent (http://wonder.

<http://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D28>

cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D28) and still considers heart disease the

leading cause of death in the United States. During that supposedly golden

40-year period, before the recent miserly dip in cancer rates, both these

diseases (along with diabetes, autism, allergies, gut diseases, and more)

have seen rises into what can fairly be called epidemic proportions

(coincident, not incidentally, with the era when medical care has been

literally and figuratively " in charge " of our health).

And besides, even if it were true that medical care was making us healthy,

it is never true that government has the right to force somebody to utilize

it. One can think of it this way: Every man has the right to foul up his own

life, and the right to a government that will protect him from those who

would foul it up for him.

Dave Milano, PT

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowellfiberpipe (DOT) <mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

net<mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

My point still is that we need to move past the fear and the statement of

problems (we all know what they are) and trust the leadership we have

elected to work on solutions. We have given every opportunity to the

insurance industry to physicians and even to ourselves to solve the problem

and we have failed. Something has to be done and like it or not the

government is right now the best chance that we have. If you are scared of

what the government will be doing, then make your voice known and

participate in contacting Congress. That is your right as well.

The APTA rally for healthcare is tomorrow and is open to members and

non-members. Have you signed up??

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, ID

thowell@...

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

_____

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of Milano, Dave

Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:13 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: RE: Healthcare reform

Some of these statements deserve explanation, like " We have had over 40

years of 'choice' and 'rights' to make the right choices... "

In fact, the past 40 years has been completely under the rule of mandated

insurance coverage and government-run insurance that has paid ONLY for

AMA-style medical care.

Other statements deserve citation, like " ...the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. "

The CDC reports a drop in cancer incidence between 1999 and 2004 of a

whopping 4 percent (http://wonder.

<http://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D28>

cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D28) and still considers heart disease the

leading cause of death in the United States. During that supposedly golden

40-year period, before the recent miserly dip in cancer rates, both these

diseases (along with diabetes, autism, allergies, gut diseases, and more)

have seen rises into what can fairly be called epidemic proportions

(coincident, not incidentally, with the era when medical care has been

literally and figuratively " in charge " of our health).

And besides, even if it were true that medical care was making us healthy,

it is never true that government has the right to force somebody to utilize

it. One can think of it this way: Every man has the right to foul up his own

life, and the right to a government that will protect him from those who

would foul it up for him.

Dave Milano, PT

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowellfiberpipe (DOT) <mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

net<mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

My point still is that we need to move past the fear and the statement of

problems (we all know what they are) and trust the leadership we have

elected to work on solutions. We have given every opportunity to the

insurance industry to physicians and even to ourselves to solve the problem

and we have failed. Something has to be done and like it or not the

government is right now the best chance that we have. If you are scared of

what the government will be doing, then make your voice known and

participate in contacting Congress. That is your right as well.

The APTA rally for healthcare is tomorrow and is open to members and

non-members. Have you signed up??

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, ID

thowell@...

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

_____

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of Milano, Dave

Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:13 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: RE: Healthcare reform

Some of these statements deserve explanation, like " We have had over 40

years of 'choice' and 'rights' to make the right choices... "

In fact, the past 40 years has been completely under the rule of mandated

insurance coverage and government-run insurance that has paid ONLY for

AMA-style medical care.

Other statements deserve citation, like " ...the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. "

The CDC reports a drop in cancer incidence between 1999 and 2004 of a

whopping 4 percent (http://wonder.

<http://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D28>

cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D28) and still considers heart disease the

leading cause of death in the United States. During that supposedly golden

40-year period, before the recent miserly dip in cancer rates, both these

diseases (along with diabetes, autism, allergies, gut diseases, and more)

have seen rises into what can fairly be called epidemic proportions

(coincident, not incidentally, with the era when medical care has been

literally and figuratively " in charge " of our health).

And besides, even if it were true that medical care was making us healthy,

it is never true that government has the right to force somebody to utilize

it. One can think of it this way: Every man has the right to foul up his own

life, and the right to a government that will protect him from those who

would foul it up for him.

Dave Milano, PT

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowellfiberpipe (DOT) <mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

net<mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

These have all been interesting comments. What though this all comes down to is

whether as a society we feel healthcare is a right or a benefit. In a recent NYT

survey, over 70% want a public plan option. I think they have voiced that they

feel it is a right. why? I think its becasue all of the private options have

increasingly shifted the risk to the patient and created burocracies and hoops

to jump to that more than rival those that people are concerned about with a

public plan. the private insurers want to have a level playing field in

competing against a public plan. well if that public plan has ease of access,

portability between jobs and no pre exisiting condition stuff or variable

medical neccessity definitons ... sign me up! And so if the public plan is

competitive, then the private's have to react to that or lose market share ....

oops there goes those CEO bonuses! We have to get the double digit stockhoder

return expectations out of the health insurance business. What I am hearing so

far from Washington is positive.

Jim Dunleavy PT, MS

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowell@...<mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

These have all been interesting comments. What though this all comes down to is

whether as a society we feel healthcare is a right or a benefit. In a recent NYT

survey, over 70% want a public plan option. I think they have voiced that they

feel it is a right. why? I think its becasue all of the private options have

increasingly shifted the risk to the patient and created burocracies and hoops

to jump to that more than rival those that people are concerned about with a

public plan. the private insurers want to have a level playing field in

competing against a public plan. well if that public plan has ease of access,

portability between jobs and no pre exisiting condition stuff or variable

medical neccessity definitons ... sign me up! And so if the public plan is

competitive, then the private's have to react to that or lose market share ....

oops there goes those CEO bonuses! We have to get the double digit stockhoder

return expectations out of the health insurance business. What I am hearing so

far from Washington is positive.

Jim Dunleavy PT, MS

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowell@...<mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

These have all been interesting comments. What though this all comes down to is

whether as a society we feel healthcare is a right or a benefit. In a recent NYT

survey, over 70% want a public plan option. I think they have voiced that they

feel it is a right. why? I think its becasue all of the private options have

increasingly shifted the risk to the patient and created burocracies and hoops

to jump to that more than rival those that people are concerned about with a

public plan. the private insurers want to have a level playing field in

competing against a public plan. well if that public plan has ease of access,

portability between jobs and no pre exisiting condition stuff or variable

medical neccessity definitons ... sign me up! And so if the public plan is

competitive, then the private's have to react to that or lose market share ....

oops there goes those CEO bonuses! We have to get the double digit stockhoder

return expectations out of the health insurance business. What I am hearing so

far from Washington is positive.

Jim Dunleavy PT, MS

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowell@...<mailto:thowell%40fiberpipe.net>

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

With regards to statements about writing members of Congress, it'd be nice if

that worked. However, if you look at this present financial/economic crisis and

the bailout situation, the mail against the bailout ran 100:1 against. Congress

ignored their constituents and capitulated to the powers that be. If we had any

real leadership in Congress, they would vote themselves a 10% pay cut as a

symbolic gesture to show their solidarity and support of the hard times most of

their constituents are experiencing. They haven't. They would downgrade their

healthcare benefits to the level of those experienced by the average Medicare

recipient. They haven't. They would vote for a graduated pension system

whereby they would not receive a full pension until having put in far more than

just one term, just like the retirement plans most of their constituents have.

They haven't. They are in it for the money and power, pure and simple. And

except for a few exceptions like Ron , they are corrupt and serving their

own interests over their constituent's interests.

As for our executive branch, I'm not very optimistic about the outcomes there

either. We are no longer a democratic republic. We have become an executive

socialist plutocracy. And quite frankly, it doesn't matter which party is in

power. An one individual so accurately put it, " There isn't a Republican Party,

there isn't a Democratic party, there's just one one party ... the party of

Money " . The two party system where you appear to have a choice and where there

is constant friction and conflict between the two parties and their supporters

is part of " a divide and conquer " strategy that's been in place for a long,

long time (read about the Banker's Manifesto of 1892 for just one example).

As for healthcare being a right, I have a hard time with that proposition. Is

that because it is essential for our well being? Well, to survive economically

in the modern world, a telephone is pretty essential. Should that be a right?

So is an automobile. So is good nutrition. Does that mean we have government

programs paying for phones, automobiles, food and nutritional supplements, etc?

Healthcare is certainly something we want to have for all but as for it being a

right, I think that contention is mistaken.

Furthermore, health care reform without legal reform is nonsensical. The

average American family pays $10,000 per year in added costs to their goods and

services to cover legal liability. Many of the costs that have encumbered our

system, from healthcare to manufacturing, have come about due to legal excesses.

Some of the health care systems that we look at with lower costs also have very

different legal systems. In my career, I've talked with physical therapists

from Canada, Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa,

Switzerland, Holland, Germany, France, Italy, Japan, the Scandinavian countries,

Iceland, Caribbean nations, Argentina, Chile, etc. Those who come from

countries with more efficient healthcare systems than ours literally laugh at us

due to the restrictions brought about by our legal system. The problem is that

lawyers control the legislatures and it's exceedingly unlikely that they will

ever take action against their own self-interests.

There's much talk of the rise in the cost of health care. How many providers,

however, have seen these increased costs translate into increased incomes? Very

few I'd wager. The ones who have benefitted are the middlemen, the insurance

companies. You have individuals like the former CEO of United Healthcare who

received ONE BILLION dollars in total compensation during his time with the

company (before being forced to resign due to questionable activities such as

backdating stock option) and received a lump sum of 100 million dollars in stock

options. It's these individuals who are driving up the cost of health care, far

more than any providers, even the unethical and illegal ones. They're taking it

from us and taking it from the patients.

The insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry are two of the most

powerful lobbies in the country and they are vested in disease. If you want to

lower health care costs, you start with children in kindergarten, grade school,

and high school. You educate them in nutrition, posture, body mechanics,

exercise, and other preventative strategies. You encourage wholesome foods and

make soft drinks, candy, cookies, cake, chips, ice cream, white bread, processed

meats, sugary cereals, and other overly refined, highly processed, low fiber,

low micronutrient, high sugar, high trans fat, foods difficult to access. You

use government propaganda campaigns and spinmeisters to make it uncool to eat

this garbage. You, in fact, support small organic farms rather than legislate

against them as certain legislators are doing who've been bought off by

Monsanto, Archer s Midland, and others to support their agrichemical

business and their pseudo-food crops grown from genetically modified, hybridized

(meaning farmers have to lease the seed and can't buy it or produce their own)

seeds and laden with pesticides, NPK fertilizers (with no trace minerals), and

other chemicals that are not conducive to health. When recent food assays

replicating assays that were performed in the 1950s revealed that our modern

foods have approximately 50% of the micro-nutrient content of foods half a

century ago, something is dreadfully wrong.

You reinstitute physical education classes in schools but make them into

something worthwhile rather than simply opportunities to play basketball,

football, and baseball. You teach posture and movement. You teach somatic

stress management principles so children learn to manage stress rather than

having it impact their health (especially considering that it is conservatively

estimated that at least 80% of disease has adverse stress as a significant

component). You perhaps teach them how to select, prepare, and even grow their

own foods. You structure classrooms to integrate movement with learning rather

than forcing children to sit still in uncomfortable, nonergonomic chairs until

they are bored out of their minds. I don't even want to go there as to the

shortcomings of our educational system.

You encourage conservative interventions that work. When one compares the

Scandinavian systems (which have excellent conservative treatment of spinal

problems) with America and see 10 times the number of surgical interventions in

this country, something is wrong. You encourage nutriceuticals over

pharmaceuticals, herbs (many of which have various co-factors that negate many

of the side effects of our more purified drugs) over drugs, fasting (which can

add enormously to health) over gluttony, etc. You integrate effective

alternative and complementary therapies with conventional medicine rather than

trying to preserve the status quo.

I could go on and on but I'd like to get to bed. However, when I look at our

governments' " efforts " at healthcare reform, they are as ludicrous as their

management of the present financial crisis. By the way, if anyone thinks the

government really is going to help or that the present financial crisis is

accidental, beware of someone selling you a bridge in Brooklyn.;-)

, PT, OCS

,

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowell@...

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

With regards to statements about writing members of Congress, it'd be nice if

that worked. However, if you look at this present financial/economic crisis and

the bailout situation, the mail against the bailout ran 100:1 against. Congress

ignored their constituents and capitulated to the powers that be. If we had any

real leadership in Congress, they would vote themselves a 10% pay cut as a

symbolic gesture to show their solidarity and support of the hard times most of

their constituents are experiencing. They haven't. They would downgrade their

healthcare benefits to the level of those experienced by the average Medicare

recipient. They haven't. They would vote for a graduated pension system

whereby they would not receive a full pension until having put in far more than

just one term, just like the retirement plans most of their constituents have.

They haven't. They are in it for the money and power, pure and simple. And

except for a few exceptions like Ron , they are corrupt and serving their

own interests over their constituent's interests.

As for our executive branch, I'm not very optimistic about the outcomes there

either. We are no longer a democratic republic. We have become an executive

socialist plutocracy. And quite frankly, it doesn't matter which party is in

power. An one individual so accurately put it, " There isn't a Republican Party,

there isn't a Democratic party, there's just one one party ... the party of

Money " . The two party system where you appear to have a choice and where there

is constant friction and conflict between the two parties and their supporters

is part of " a divide and conquer " strategy that's been in place for a long,

long time (read about the Banker's Manifesto of 1892 for just one example).

As for healthcare being a right, I have a hard time with that proposition. Is

that because it is essential for our well being? Well, to survive economically

in the modern world, a telephone is pretty essential. Should that be a right?

So is an automobile. So is good nutrition. Does that mean we have government

programs paying for phones, automobiles, food and nutritional supplements, etc?

Healthcare is certainly something we want to have for all but as for it being a

right, I think that contention is mistaken.

Furthermore, health care reform without legal reform is nonsensical. The

average American family pays $10,000 per year in added costs to their goods and

services to cover legal liability. Many of the costs that have encumbered our

system, from healthcare to manufacturing, have come about due to legal excesses.

Some of the health care systems that we look at with lower costs also have very

different legal systems. In my career, I've talked with physical therapists

from Canada, Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa,

Switzerland, Holland, Germany, France, Italy, Japan, the Scandinavian countries,

Iceland, Caribbean nations, Argentina, Chile, etc. Those who come from

countries with more efficient healthcare systems than ours literally laugh at us

due to the restrictions brought about by our legal system. The problem is that

lawyers control the legislatures and it's exceedingly unlikely that they will

ever take action against their own self-interests.

There's much talk of the rise in the cost of health care. How many providers,

however, have seen these increased costs translate into increased incomes? Very

few I'd wager. The ones who have benefitted are the middlemen, the insurance

companies. You have individuals like the former CEO of United Healthcare who

received ONE BILLION dollars in total compensation during his time with the

company (before being forced to resign due to questionable activities such as

backdating stock option) and received a lump sum of 100 million dollars in stock

options. It's these individuals who are driving up the cost of health care, far

more than any providers, even the unethical and illegal ones. They're taking it

from us and taking it from the patients.

The insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry are two of the most

powerful lobbies in the country and they are vested in disease. If you want to

lower health care costs, you start with children in kindergarten, grade school,

and high school. You educate them in nutrition, posture, body mechanics,

exercise, and other preventative strategies. You encourage wholesome foods and

make soft drinks, candy, cookies, cake, chips, ice cream, white bread, processed

meats, sugary cereals, and other overly refined, highly processed, low fiber,

low micronutrient, high sugar, high trans fat, foods difficult to access. You

use government propaganda campaigns and spinmeisters to make it uncool to eat

this garbage. You, in fact, support small organic farms rather than legislate

against them as certain legislators are doing who've been bought off by

Monsanto, Archer s Midland, and others to support their agrichemical

business and their pseudo-food crops grown from genetically modified, hybridized

(meaning farmers have to lease the seed and can't buy it or produce their own)

seeds and laden with pesticides, NPK fertilizers (with no trace minerals), and

other chemicals that are not conducive to health. When recent food assays

replicating assays that were performed in the 1950s revealed that our modern

foods have approximately 50% of the micro-nutrient content of foods half a

century ago, something is dreadfully wrong.

You reinstitute physical education classes in schools but make them into

something worthwhile rather than simply opportunities to play basketball,

football, and baseball. You teach posture and movement. You teach somatic

stress management principles so children learn to manage stress rather than

having it impact their health (especially considering that it is conservatively

estimated that at least 80% of disease has adverse stress as a significant

component). You perhaps teach them how to select, prepare, and even grow their

own foods. You structure classrooms to integrate movement with learning rather

than forcing children to sit still in uncomfortable, nonergonomic chairs until

they are bored out of their minds. I don't even want to go there as to the

shortcomings of our educational system.

You encourage conservative interventions that work. When one compares the

Scandinavian systems (which have excellent conservative treatment of spinal

problems) with America and see 10 times the number of surgical interventions in

this country, something is wrong. You encourage nutriceuticals over

pharmaceuticals, herbs (many of which have various co-factors that negate many

of the side effects of our more purified drugs) over drugs, fasting (which can

add enormously to health) over gluttony, etc. You integrate effective

alternative and complementary therapies with conventional medicine rather than

trying to preserve the status quo.

I could go on and on but I'd like to get to bed. However, when I look at our

governments' " efforts " at healthcare reform, they are as ludicrous as their

management of the present financial crisis. By the way, if anyone thinks the

government really is going to help or that the present financial crisis is

accidental, beware of someone selling you a bridge in Brooklyn.;-)

, PT, OCS

,

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowell@...

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

[Guest guest]

With regards to statements about writing members of Congress, it'd be nice if

that worked. However, if you look at this present financial/economic crisis and

the bailout situation, the mail against the bailout ran 100:1 against. Congress

ignored their constituents and capitulated to the powers that be. If we had any

real leadership in Congress, they would vote themselves a 10% pay cut as a

symbolic gesture to show their solidarity and support of the hard times most of

their constituents are experiencing. They haven't. They would downgrade their

healthcare benefits to the level of those experienced by the average Medicare

recipient. They haven't. They would vote for a graduated pension system

whereby they would not receive a full pension until having put in far more than

just one term, just like the retirement plans most of their constituents have.

They haven't. They are in it for the money and power, pure and simple. And

except for a few exceptions like Ron , they are corrupt and serving their

own interests over their constituent's interests.

As for our executive branch, I'm not very optimistic about the outcomes there

either. We are no longer a democratic republic. We have become an executive

socialist plutocracy. And quite frankly, it doesn't matter which party is in

power. An one individual so accurately put it, " There isn't a Republican Party,

there isn't a Democratic party, there's just one one party ... the party of

Money " . The two party system where you appear to have a choice and where there

is constant friction and conflict between the two parties and their supporters

is part of " a divide and conquer " strategy that's been in place for a long,

long time (read about the Banker's Manifesto of 1892 for just one example).

As for healthcare being a right, I have a hard time with that proposition. Is

that because it is essential for our well being? Well, to survive economically

in the modern world, a telephone is pretty essential. Should that be a right?

So is an automobile. So is good nutrition. Does that mean we have government

programs paying for phones, automobiles, food and nutritional supplements, etc?

Healthcare is certainly something we want to have for all but as for it being a

right, I think that contention is mistaken.

Furthermore, health care reform without legal reform is nonsensical. The

average American family pays $10,000 per year in added costs to their goods and

services to cover legal liability. Many of the costs that have encumbered our

system, from healthcare to manufacturing, have come about due to legal excesses.

Some of the health care systems that we look at with lower costs also have very

different legal systems. In my career, I've talked with physical therapists

from Canada, Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa,

Switzerland, Holland, Germany, France, Italy, Japan, the Scandinavian countries,

Iceland, Caribbean nations, Argentina, Chile, etc. Those who come from

countries with more efficient healthcare systems than ours literally laugh at us

due to the restrictions brought about by our legal system. The problem is that

lawyers control the legislatures and it's exceedingly unlikely that they will

ever take action against their own self-interests.

There's much talk of the rise in the cost of health care. How many providers,

however, have seen these increased costs translate into increased incomes? Very

few I'd wager. The ones who have benefitted are the middlemen, the insurance

companies. You have individuals like the former CEO of United Healthcare who

received ONE BILLION dollars in total compensation during his time with the

company (before being forced to resign due to questionable activities such as

backdating stock option) and received a lump sum of 100 million dollars in stock

options. It's these individuals who are driving up the cost of health care, far

more than any providers, even the unethical and illegal ones. They're taking it

from us and taking it from the patients.

The insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry are two of the most

powerful lobbies in the country and they are vested in disease. If you want to

lower health care costs, you start with children in kindergarten, grade school,

and high school. You educate them in nutrition, posture, body mechanics,

exercise, and other preventative strategies. You encourage wholesome foods and

make soft drinks, candy, cookies, cake, chips, ice cream, white bread, processed

meats, sugary cereals, and other overly refined, highly processed, low fiber,

low micronutrient, high sugar, high trans fat, foods difficult to access. You

use government propaganda campaigns and spinmeisters to make it uncool to eat

this garbage. You, in fact, support small organic farms rather than legislate

against them as certain legislators are doing who've been bought off by

Monsanto, Archer s Midland, and others to support their agrichemical

business and their pseudo-food crops grown from genetically modified, hybridized

(meaning farmers have to lease the seed and can't buy it or produce their own)

seeds and laden with pesticides, NPK fertilizers (with no trace minerals), and

other chemicals that are not conducive to health. When recent food assays

replicating assays that were performed in the 1950s revealed that our modern

foods have approximately 50% of the micro-nutrient content of foods half a

century ago, something is dreadfully wrong.

You reinstitute physical education classes in schools but make them into

something worthwhile rather than simply opportunities to play basketball,

football, and baseball. You teach posture and movement. You teach somatic

stress management principles so children learn to manage stress rather than

having it impact their health (especially considering that it is conservatively

estimated that at least 80% of disease has adverse stress as a significant

component). You perhaps teach them how to select, prepare, and even grow their

own foods. You structure classrooms to integrate movement with learning rather

than forcing children to sit still in uncomfortable, nonergonomic chairs until

they are bored out of their minds. I don't even want to go there as to the

shortcomings of our educational system.

You encourage conservative interventions that work. When one compares the

Scandinavian systems (which have excellent conservative treatment of spinal

problems) with America and see 10 times the number of surgical interventions in

this country, something is wrong. You encourage nutriceuticals over

pharmaceuticals, herbs (many of which have various co-factors that negate many

of the side effects of our more purified drugs) over drugs, fasting (which can

add enormously to health) over gluttony, etc. You integrate effective

alternative and complementary therapies with conventional medicine rather than

trying to preserve the status quo.

I could go on and on but I'd like to get to bed. However, when I look at our

governments' " efforts " at healthcare reform, they are as ludicrous as their

management of the present financial crisis. By the way, if anyone thinks the

government really is going to help or that the present financial crisis is

accidental, beware of someone selling you a bridge in Brooklyn.;-)

, PT, OCS

,

Healthcare reform

Hi everyone,

I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

problem of individual health choices.

The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

limitation completely.

We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

could write you members of Congress. Have you?

Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

Howell Physical Therapy

Eagle, Idaho

thowell@...

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

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[Guest guest]

,

That was an eloquent and very important addition to this thread.

Thank you.

Lane Blondheim, PT, MT

Montgomery, AL

>

> With regards to statements about writing members of Congress, it'd be nice if

that worked. However, if you look at this present financial/economic crisis and

the bailout situation, the mail against the bailout ran 100:1 against. Congress

ignored their constituents and capitulated to the powers that be. If we had any

real leadership in Congress, they would vote themselves a 10% pay cut as a

symbolic gesture to show their solidarity and support of the hard times most of

their constituents are experiencing. They haven't. They would downgrade their

healthcare benefits to the level of those experienced by the average Medicare

recipient. They haven't. They would vote for a graduated pension system

whereby they would not receive a full pension until having put in far more than

just one term, just like the retirement plans most of their constituents have.

They haven't. They are in it for the money and power, pure and simple. And

except for a few exceptions like Ron , they are corrupt and serving their

own interests over their constituent's interests.

>

> As for our executive branch, I'm not very optimistic about the outcomes there

either. We are no longer a democratic republic. We have become an executive

socialist plutocracy. And quite frankly, it doesn't matter which party is in

power. An one individual so accurately put it, " There isn't a Republican Party,

there isn't a Democratic party, there's just one one party ... the party of

Money " . The two party system where you appear to have a choice and where there

is constant friction and conflict between the two parties and their supporters

is part of " a divide and conquer " strategy that's been in place for a long,

long time (read about the Banker's Manifesto of 1892 for just one example).

>

> As for healthcare being a right, I have a hard time with that proposition. Is

that because it is essential for our well being? Well, to survive economically

in the modern world, a telephone is pretty essential. Should that be a right?

So is an automobile. So is good nutrition. Does that mean we have government

programs paying for phones, automobiles, food and nutritional supplements, etc?

Healthcare is certainly something we want to have for all but as for it being a

right, I think that contention is mistaken.

>

> Furthermore, health care reform without legal reform is nonsensical. The

average American family pays $10,000 per year in added costs to their goods and

services to cover legal liability. Many of the costs that have encumbered our

system, from healthcare to manufacturing, have come about due to legal excesses.

Some of the health care systems that we look at with lower costs also have very

different legal systems. In my career, I've talked with physical therapists

from Canada, Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa,

Switzerland, Holland, Germany, France, Italy, Japan, the Scandinavian countries,

Iceland, Caribbean nations, Argentina, Chile, etc. Those who come from

countries with more efficient healthcare systems than ours literally laugh at us

due to the restrictions brought about by our legal system. The problem is that

lawyers control the legislatures and it's exceedingly unlikely that they will

ever take action against their own self-interests.

>

> There's much talk of the rise in the cost of health care. How many providers,

however, have seen these increased costs translate into increased incomes? Very

few I'd wager. The ones who have benefitted are the middlemen, the insurance

companies. You have individuals like the former CEO of United Healthcare who

received ONE BILLION dollars in total compensation during his time with the

company (before being forced to resign due to questionable activities such as

backdating stock option) and received a lump sum of 100 million dollars in stock

options. It's these individuals who are driving up the cost of health care, far

more than any providers, even the unethical and illegal ones. They're taking it

from us and taking it from the patients.

>

> The insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry are two of the most

powerful lobbies in the country and they are vested in disease. If you want to

lower health care costs, you start with children in kindergarten, grade school,

and high school. You educate them in nutrition, posture, body mechanics,

exercise, and other preventative strategies. You encourage wholesome foods and

make soft drinks, candy, cookies, cake, chips, ice cream, white bread, processed

meats, sugary cereals, and other overly refined, highly processed, low fiber,

low micronutrient, high sugar, high trans fat, foods difficult to access. You

use government propaganda campaigns and spinmeisters to make it uncool to eat

this garbage. You, in fact, support small organic farms rather than legislate

against them as certain legislators are doing who've been bought off by

Monsanto, Archer s Midland, and others to support their agrichemical

business and their pseudo-food crops grown from genetically modified, hybridized

(meaning farmers have to lease the seed and can't buy it or produce their own)

seeds and laden with pesticides, NPK fertilizers (with no trace minerals), and

other chemicals that are not conducive to health. When recent food assays

replicating assays that were performed in the 1950s revealed that our modern

foods have approximately 50% of the micro-nutrient content of foods half a

century ago, something is dreadfully wrong.

>

> You reinstitute physical education classes in schools but make them into

something worthwhile rather than simply opportunities to play basketball,

football, and baseball. You teach posture and movement. You teach somatic

stress management principles so children learn to manage stress rather than

having it impact their health (especially considering that it is conservatively

estimated that at least 80% of disease has adverse stress as a significant

component). You perhaps teach them how to select, prepare, and even grow their

own foods. You structure classrooms to integrate movement with learning rather

than forcing children to sit still in uncomfortable, nonergonomic chairs until

they are bored out of their minds. I don't even want to go there as to the

shortcomings of our educational system.

>

> You encourage conservative interventions that work. When one compares the

Scandinavian systems (which have excellent conservative treatment of spinal

problems) with America and see 10 times the number of surgical interventions in

this country, something is wrong. You encourage nutriceuticals over

pharmaceuticals, herbs (many of which have various co-factors that negate many

of the side effects of our more purified drugs) over drugs, fasting (which can

add enormously to health) over gluttony, etc. You integrate effective

alternative and complementary therapies with conventional medicine rather than

trying to preserve the status quo.

>

> I could go on and on but I'd like to get to bed. However, when I look at our

governments' " efforts " at healthcare reform, they are as ludicrous as their

management of the present financial crisis. By the way, if anyone thinks the

government really is going to help or that the present financial crisis is

accidental, beware of someone selling you a bridge in Brooklyn.;-)

>

> , PT, OCS

>

>

> ,

> Healthcare reform

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I don't think anyone is thrilled to be facing increased government

> intervention into healthcare but we must keep in mind that there is not a

> viable choice right now. We have had over 40 years to allow private

> industry and individuals with " choice " and " rights " to make the right

> choices and find a way to improve the health of this country and to improve

> healthcare itself. In some ways we have with the tremendous drop in cancer

> rates and heart disease. On the other hand private industry and individuals

> have not found the solution. Our lives are being bankrupted by healthcare

> costs and worst of all our health overall is not better. The government is

> stepping in because those with " rights " and " choices " have failed!

>

> With that said, I need also to remind us all to read the goals of healthcare

> reform that the Senate, House and President Obama each have outlined. Those

> goals present us with the framework to innovate a new system to address the

> concerns of most. There has been discussion in the last few days about

> individuals making the right choice but are we sure they always can? Within

> the goals of all the plans is a move towards more preventative care

> including suggestions for increased use of health " coaches " to help educate

> and guide more people to make the right choice. It will be up to us as it

> always is to make sure that this goes no farther than guidance but the

> exciting thing is that there are numerous suggestions on how to tackle the

> problem of individual health choices.

>

> The same thing can be said about providing coverage to the current uninsured

> and addressing some of the reasons that they are uninsured in the first

> place. There are many proposals to meet the goal of eliminating the

> uninsured. Have pre-existing conditions? Well a goal is to remove this

> limitation completely.

>

> We all need to be involved in the process right now. The time for talking

> about the problems in health care is passing. The time for talking

> solutions is passing. What we need is the will to draft an innovative

> program that addresses the goals we have before us. It will not please all

> of us but we must have the collective will to go forwards. Let's keep

> talking solutions but let's all back that up with action in our daily lives

> with the " rights " we have and in political action through continued

> grassroots action. In the time it takes to post on this listserve, you

> could write you members of Congress. Have you?

>

> Tom Howell, P.T., M.P.T.

>

> Howell Physical Therapy

>

> Eagle, Idaho

>

> thowell@...

>

> This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRIVILEGED or

> CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

> recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

> attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

> and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or

> copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

> have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

> attachments and notify the sender by reply email.

>

>