Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 In a message dated 5/1/2004 9:14:37 PM Central Standard Time, hatfield@... writes: But, to make things interesting, let's assume, that at 8 1/2 months pregnant, you and your partner get called to a full arrest, the patient is in bathroom wedged between the toilet and the bathtub (as usual). You and your partner are the only ones there. How much will you be able to help? Why not take it one step further. What if the employee is obese and cant get into the bath room to help move the patient. Should he be put on suspension till he loses the weight? Tom LeNeveu Learning Paramedic EMStock 2004 is just around the corner. Come join the fun and learn a little while your at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 In a message dated 5/1/2004 9:14:37 PM Central Standard Time, hatfield@... writes: But, to make things interesting, let's assume, that at 8 1/2 months pregnant, you and your partner get called to a full arrest, the patient is in bathroom wedged between the toilet and the bathtub (as usual). You and your partner are the only ones there. How much will you be able to help? Why not take it one step further. What if the employee is obese and cant get into the bath room to help move the patient. Should he be put on suspension till he loses the weight? Tom LeNeveu Learning Paramedic EMStock 2004 is just around the corner. Come join the fun and learn a little while your at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 In a message dated 5/1/2004 9:14:37 PM Central Standard Time, hatfield@... writes: But, to make things interesting, let's assume, that at 8 1/2 months pregnant, you and your partner get called to a full arrest, the patient is in bathroom wedged between the toilet and the bathtub (as usual). You and your partner are the only ones there. How much will you be able to help? Why not take it one step further. What if the employee is obese and cant get into the bath room to help move the patient. Should he be put on suspension till he loses the weight? Tom LeNeveu Learning Paramedic EMStock 2004 is just around the corner. Come join the fun and learn a little while your at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 But, to make things interesting, let's assume, that at 8 1/2 months pregnant, you and your partner get called to a full arrest, the patient is in bathroom wedged between the toilet and the bathtub (as usual). You and your partner are the only ones there. How much will you be able to help? Just as much as when not pregnant!! (Granted, some pregnant women may not be, just as some women arent ever! Or men for that matter.) As far as the violent pt.....yes, it was a concern, but it's also a concern now--do I really want this violent pt. to kick my butt, when i've got 4 kids at home??? I think both pregnant, and as a parent, I'm was/am more aware of scene safety. Only real " slower " incident due to preg. that I can recall right now is trying to quickly get off the floor while straddling a guys head with my back to the wall and little room on either side after intubating him and he's now puking. At 8 mos pregnant, that was quite a feat. In all seriousness though, as someone else pointed out, pregnant or not, some medics do fine in the field, and some dont. I personally think it should be left up to the individual. I'm not sure how HFD can get away with pulling all preg. medics--unless of course they have all agreed to it, I know I wouldnt have liked it! How liable are any employers for allowing pregnant women to work late in pregancy? I taught preschool special ed---That can be more risky to the baby than some of the stuff in the field(infectious diseases--CMV, Fifth's disease etc) Acting out special ed students can at times be more difficult to manage than some of our pts--and PD isnt there to assist. How liable is the school district? Should all employers, other than maybe desk jobs, pull employees at the first indication of pregnancy? Kathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 But, to make things interesting, let's assume, that at 8 1/2 months pregnant, you and your partner get called to a full arrest, the patient is in bathroom wedged between the toilet and the bathtub (as usual). You and your partner are the only ones there. How much will you be able to help? Just as much as when not pregnant!! (Granted, some pregnant women may not be, just as some women arent ever! Or men for that matter.) As far as the violent pt.....yes, it was a concern, but it's also a concern now--do I really want this violent pt. to kick my butt, when i've got 4 kids at home??? I think both pregnant, and as a parent, I'm was/am more aware of scene safety. Only real " slower " incident due to preg. that I can recall right now is trying to quickly get off the floor while straddling a guys head with my back to the wall and little room on either side after intubating him and he's now puking. At 8 mos pregnant, that was quite a feat. In all seriousness though, as someone else pointed out, pregnant or not, some medics do fine in the field, and some dont. I personally think it should be left up to the individual. I'm not sure how HFD can get away with pulling all preg. medics--unless of course they have all agreed to it, I know I wouldnt have liked it! How liable are any employers for allowing pregnant women to work late in pregancy? I taught preschool special ed---That can be more risky to the baby than some of the stuff in the field(infectious diseases--CMV, Fifth's disease etc) Acting out special ed students can at times be more difficult to manage than some of our pts--and PD isnt there to assist. How liable is the school district? Should all employers, other than maybe desk jobs, pull employees at the first indication of pregnancy? Kathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 What if the employee is obese and cant get into the bath room to help move the patient. Should he be put on suspension till he loses the weight? My feeling is it all comes down to ability to perform the job (whatever that may be). Whether pregnant, obese, blind etc.....if you cant perform your duties, you should be put on leave. kathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 What if the employee is obese and cant get into the bath room to help move the patient. Should he be put on suspension till he loses the weight? My feeling is it all comes down to ability to perform the job (whatever that may be). Whether pregnant, obese, blind etc.....if you cant perform your duties, you should be put on leave. kathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 Who carries the liability? Dont know....my assumption is it would be the mother, but that's only an assumption. If the potential risks were understood and accepted by her, why would anyone else have to assume the liability? Granted I'm not a lawyer, and have no clue! And I fully realize people sue anyone and everyone for many silly reasons............ I had no lift restrictions(weight) while pregnant. Kathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 I've learned that " reasonable " can be a hole wide enough to drive one of Austin's ambulances through. A larger system like Houston has plenty of non-field slots where they can put a FF or medic on " light duty. " However, what's the rural system to do? What would be a reasonable accomodation for a pregnant (or injured) medic? -Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 I've learned that " reasonable " can be a hole wide enough to drive one of Austin's ambulances through. A larger system like Houston has plenty of non-field slots where they can put a FF or medic on " light duty. " However, what's the rural system to do? What would be a reasonable accomodation for a pregnant (or injured) medic? -Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 At AMR in San , I worked on the truck until the HR director faxed a " release " to my OB/GYN (at about 6 months along) that stated I had to lift over 100 pounds more than 5 times an hour, and unless he'd sign it, they were going to put me on disability leave. Of course he wasn't going to sign it! I got put on disability leave, but thankfully, we had short term disability pay. It was only 60% of an average of my pay for the 13 weeks proceeding, but it was better than nothing. I was very upset that the HR director took it upon herself to fax the " release " over. There was about 6-7 other females pregnant at the same time (we thought it was something in the water.. ) no one else got the letter sent to their OB/GYN's. I tried the whole, bitching, complaining, going to corporate route. Brick walls though. I just collected my disability, had my son, and found a job elsewhere when I was ready to go back to work. I do know that I performed my job duties just fine until I was put on disability. I was never injured on the job, pregnant or not, and I never had a partner injured at my expense, pregnant or not. I think it was unfair, but like I said, life goes on. I was fortunate enough to be able to find another job quickly and for more money, some aren't so fortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 At AMR in San , I worked on the truck until the HR director faxed a " release " to my OB/GYN (at about 6 months along) that stated I had to lift over 100 pounds more than 5 times an hour, and unless he'd sign it, they were going to put me on disability leave. Of course he wasn't going to sign it! I got put on disability leave, but thankfully, we had short term disability pay. It was only 60% of an average of my pay for the 13 weeks proceeding, but it was better than nothing. I was very upset that the HR director took it upon herself to fax the " release " over. There was about 6-7 other females pregnant at the same time (we thought it was something in the water.. ) no one else got the letter sent to their OB/GYN's. I tried the whole, bitching, complaining, going to corporate route. Brick walls though. I just collected my disability, had my son, and found a job elsewhere when I was ready to go back to work. I do know that I performed my job duties just fine until I was put on disability. I was never injured on the job, pregnant or not, and I never had a partner injured at my expense, pregnant or not. I think it was unfair, but like I said, life goes on. I was fortunate enough to be able to find another job quickly and for more money, some aren't so fortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 At AMR in San , I worked on the truck until the HR director faxed a " release " to my OB/GYN (at about 6 months along) that stated I had to lift over 100 pounds more than 5 times an hour, and unless he'd sign it, they were going to put me on disability leave. Of course he wasn't going to sign it! I got put on disability leave, but thankfully, we had short term disability pay. It was only 60% of an average of my pay for the 13 weeks proceeding, but it was better than nothing. I was very upset that the HR director took it upon herself to fax the " release " over. There was about 6-7 other females pregnant at the same time (we thought it was something in the water.. ) no one else got the letter sent to their OB/GYN's. I tried the whole, bitching, complaining, going to corporate route. Brick walls though. I just collected my disability, had my son, and found a job elsewhere when I was ready to go back to work. I do know that I performed my job duties just fine until I was put on disability. I was never injured on the job, pregnant or not, and I never had a partner injured at my expense, pregnant or not. I think it was unfair, but like I said, life goes on. I was fortunate enough to be able to find another job quickly and for more money, some aren't so fortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 But, to make things interesting, let's assume, that at 8 1/2 months pregnant, you and your partner get called to a full arrest, the patient is in bathroom wedged between the toilet and the bathtub (as usual). You and your partner are the only ones there. How much will you be able to help? If you take a patient in the back who suddenly becomes violent, what then? How liable are your employers for allowing you to work on the truck so late in your pregnancy? " The Doctor said " does not absolve anyone of liability, and relaease waivers are worth their weight in rat crap, we all know that. What if you are in an accident, and you survive but the fetus does not? I think HFD, if in fact they pull at the first knowledge of pregnancy, are making the right decision. Just my thoughts......... Mike Preg/EMS > Brings me to a question, at what point do you pull a pregnant employee from > the truck? > Our dept leaves it pretty much up to the medic and their physician. As long > as they are " fit and able to perform the duties " , with my pregnancies, I ran > up to about 2-4wks before delivery, had no significant problems. Toward the > end the guys would do more of the lifting (ok--not fair!!), but everything > else was ok. > DH's dept (HFD) I believe pulls them off the trucks as soon as the dept finds > out about the pg. Someone else may offer more input on that--but that's what > I've heard. > > Kathi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 But, to make things interesting, let's assume, that at 8 1/2 months pregnant, you and your partner get called to a full arrest, the patient is in bathroom wedged between the toilet and the bathtub (as usual). You and your partner are the only ones there. How much will you be able to help? If you take a patient in the back who suddenly becomes violent, what then? How liable are your employers for allowing you to work on the truck so late in your pregnancy? " The Doctor said " does not absolve anyone of liability, and relaease waivers are worth their weight in rat crap, we all know that. What if you are in an accident, and you survive but the fetus does not? I think HFD, if in fact they pull at the first knowledge of pregnancy, are making the right decision. Just my thoughts......... Mike Preg/EMS > Brings me to a question, at what point do you pull a pregnant employee from > the truck? > Our dept leaves it pretty much up to the medic and their physician. As long > as they are " fit and able to perform the duties " , with my pregnancies, I ran > up to about 2-4wks before delivery, had no significant problems. Toward the > end the guys would do more of the lifting (ok--not fair!!), but everything > else was ok. > DH's dept (HFD) I believe pulls them off the trucks as soon as the dept finds > out about the pg. Someone else may offer more input on that--but that's what > I've heard. > > Kathi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 But, to make things interesting, let's assume, that at 8 1/2 months pregnant, you and your partner get called to a full arrest, the patient is in bathroom wedged between the toilet and the bathtub (as usual). You and your partner are the only ones there. How much will you be able to help? If you take a patient in the back who suddenly becomes violent, what then? How liable are your employers for allowing you to work on the truck so late in your pregnancy? " The Doctor said " does not absolve anyone of liability, and relaease waivers are worth their weight in rat crap, we all know that. What if you are in an accident, and you survive but the fetus does not? I think HFD, if in fact they pull at the first knowledge of pregnancy, are making the right decision. Just my thoughts......... Mike Preg/EMS > Brings me to a question, at what point do you pull a pregnant employee from > the truck? > Our dept leaves it pretty much up to the medic and their physician. As long > as they are " fit and able to perform the duties " , with my pregnancies, I ran > up to about 2-4wks before delivery, had no significant problems. Toward the > end the guys would do more of the lifting (ok--not fair!!), but everything > else was ok. > DH's dept (HFD) I believe pulls them off the trucks as soon as the dept finds > out about the pg. Someone else may offer more input on that--but that's what > I've heard. > > Kathi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 I think Phil has adequately addressed this. Our dept stance in that if the OB/GYN signs off on the employee then she is cleared to work. If not then she has to come off the streets. While my wife eventually came off the streets (at her dr's request), we have had plenty that stayed, even up until the day before and did just fine. Preg/EMS > Brings me to a question, at what point do you pull a pregnant employee from > the truck? > Our dept leaves it pretty much up to the medic and their physician. As long > as they are " fit and able to perform the duties " , with my pregnancies, I ran > up to about 2-4wks before delivery, had no significant problems. Toward the > end the guys would do more of the lifting (ok--not fair!!), but everything > else was ok. > DH's dept (HFD) I believe pulls them off the trucks as soon as the dept finds > out about the pg. Someone else may offer more input on that--but that's what > I've heard. > > Kathi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 I think Phil has adequately addressed this. Our dept stance in that if the OB/GYN signs off on the employee then she is cleared to work. If not then she has to come off the streets. While my wife eventually came off the streets (at her dr's request), we have had plenty that stayed, even up until the day before and did just fine. Preg/EMS > Brings me to a question, at what point do you pull a pregnant employee from > the truck? > Our dept leaves it pretty much up to the medic and their physician. As long > as they are " fit and able to perform the duties " , with my pregnancies, I ran > up to about 2-4wks before delivery, had no significant problems. Toward the > end the guys would do more of the lifting (ok--not fair!!), but everything > else was ok. > DH's dept (HFD) I believe pulls them off the trucks as soon as the dept finds > out about the pg. Someone else may offer more input on that--but that's what > I've heard. > > Kathi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 I think Phil has adequately addressed this. Our dept stance in that if the OB/GYN signs off on the employee then she is cleared to work. If not then she has to come off the streets. While my wife eventually came off the streets (at her dr's request), we have had plenty that stayed, even up until the day before and did just fine. Preg/EMS > Brings me to a question, at what point do you pull a pregnant employee from > the truck? > Our dept leaves it pretty much up to the medic and their physician. As long > as they are " fit and able to perform the duties " , with my pregnancies, I ran > up to about 2-4wks before delivery, had no significant problems. Toward the > end the guys would do more of the lifting (ok--not fair!!), but everything > else was ok. > DH's dept (HFD) I believe pulls them off the trucks as soon as the dept finds > out about the pg. Someone else may offer more input on that--but that's what > I've heard. > > Kathi > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 While I agree that Phil made a valid point, as did Tom, there is still the question of liability. What happens and who is responsible if the fetus is injured or worse while the pregnant patient is on duty? The OB/GYN? Not hardly, he/she will state that they left the decision up to the employee (who most likely made the decision in part for financial reasons). The employee? In todays society, it's too easy to sue. My ex wife received orders from the Doc not to lift more than 25 pounds late in her pregnancy, do these OB/GYN's today routinely release the pregnant employee to lift up to 100 lbs? Or whatever the lift amount is for your department? The bit about years of delivering and working the fields afterward doesn't fly, the average life expectancy was a fraction of what it is now, no correlation at all. Who carries the liability? Preg/EMS > > > > Brings me to a question, at what point do you pull a pregnant employee > from > > the truck? > > Our dept leaves it pretty much up to the medic and their physician. As > long > > as they are " fit and able to perform the duties " , with my pregnancies, I > ran > > up to about 2-4wks before delivery, had no significant problems. Toward > the > > end the guys would do more of the lifting (ok--not fair!!), but everything > > else was ok. > > DH's dept (HFD) I believe pulls them off the trucks as soon as the dept > finds > > out about the pg. Someone else may offer more input on that--but that's > what > > I've heard. > > > > Kathi > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 While I agree that Phil made a valid point, as did Tom, there is still the question of liability. What happens and who is responsible if the fetus is injured or worse while the pregnant patient is on duty? The OB/GYN? Not hardly, he/she will state that they left the decision up to the employee (who most likely made the decision in part for financial reasons). The employee? In todays society, it's too easy to sue. My ex wife received orders from the Doc not to lift more than 25 pounds late in her pregnancy, do these OB/GYN's today routinely release the pregnant employee to lift up to 100 lbs? Or whatever the lift amount is for your department? The bit about years of delivering and working the fields afterward doesn't fly, the average life expectancy was a fraction of what it is now, no correlation at all. Who carries the liability? Preg/EMS > > > > Brings me to a question, at what point do you pull a pregnant employee > from > > the truck? > > Our dept leaves it pretty much up to the medic and their physician. As > long > > as they are " fit and able to perform the duties " , with my pregnancies, I > ran > > up to about 2-4wks before delivery, had no significant problems. Toward > the > > end the guys would do more of the lifting (ok--not fair!!), but everything > > else was ok. > > DH's dept (HFD) I believe pulls them off the trucks as soon as the dept > finds > > out about the pg. Someone else may offer more input on that--but that's > what > > I've heard. > > > > Kathi > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 It is the preg employee who carries the liability. Her dr HAS to sign off that she is cleared to lift 150lbs (which is a requirement for all our field staff). Without this the employee doesn't work. If he/she tells her she can work and she gets injured, assuming she was doing her job as she was suppose to, then it is between her and her doc. Preg/EMS > > > > > > > Brings me to a question, at what point do you pull a pregnant employee > > from > > > the truck? > > > Our dept leaves it pretty much up to the medic and their physician. As > > long > > > as they are " fit and able to perform the duties " , with my pregnancies, > I > > ran > > > up to about 2-4wks before delivery, had no significant problems. > Toward > > the > > > end the guys would do more of the lifting (ok--not fair!!), but > everything > > > else was ok. > > > DH's dept (HFD) I believe pulls them off the trucks as soon as the dept > > finds > > > out about the pg. Someone else may offer more input on that--but that's > > what > > > I've heard. > > > > > > Kathi > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 It is the preg employee who carries the liability. Her dr HAS to sign off that she is cleared to lift 150lbs (which is a requirement for all our field staff). Without this the employee doesn't work. If he/she tells her she can work and she gets injured, assuming she was doing her job as she was suppose to, then it is between her and her doc. Preg/EMS > > > > > > > Brings me to a question, at what point do you pull a pregnant employee > > from > > > the truck? > > > Our dept leaves it pretty much up to the medic and their physician. As > > long > > > as they are " fit and able to perform the duties " , with my pregnancies, > I > > ran > > > up to about 2-4wks before delivery, had no significant problems. > Toward > > the > > > end the guys would do more of the lifting (ok--not fair!!), but > everything > > > else was ok. > > > DH's dept (HFD) I believe pulls them off the trucks as soon as the dept > > finds > > > out about the pg. Someone else may offer more input on that--but that's > > what > > > I've heard. > > > > > > Kathi > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 For us Light Duty is at the Director of Operations discretion. Depends on whether there is work that needs to be done, special projects, etc. It is NOT guaranteed. Sometimes it is there, sometime it's not. Makes me glad I can't get preg!!! Re: Preg/EMS > I've learned that " reasonable " can be a hole wide enough to drive one of > Austin's ambulances through. A larger system like Houston has plenty of non-field > slots where they can put a FF or medic on " light duty. " However, what's the > rural system to do? What would be a reasonable accomodation for a pregnant (or > injured) medic? > > -Wes > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 For us Light Duty is at the Director of Operations discretion. Depends on whether there is work that needs to be done, special projects, etc. It is NOT guaranteed. Sometimes it is there, sometime it's not. Makes me glad I can't get preg!!! Re: Preg/EMS > I've learned that " reasonable " can be a hole wide enough to drive one of > Austin's ambulances through. A larger system like Houston has plenty of non-field > slots where they can put a FF or medic on " light duty. " However, what's the > rural system to do? What would be a reasonable accomodation for a pregnant (or > injured) medic? > > -Wes > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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