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I have been told at various seminars that Medicare does not require physician

orders to proceed with and be reimbursed for PT/OT/ST. Our company requires

orders as a policy. In Ohio, we have direct access, but there are still

questions as to whether our services are reimburseable by Medicare if there are

no orders. Does anyone have specific knowledge of this issue?

Wendland PT

Ohio

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Hi

Ah the burning Medicare question. But we need to know more info. Are you

a hospital outpatient practice, a CORF, a private practice? That is

important because the rules for hospital based practice have recently

changed.

Second, I can answer for Medicare Part B outpatient PT in private

practice. We absolutely do not need a referral, order (or prescription)

from a physician. We DO need the following: 1) the patient must be under

the care of the physician for the probelm being treated, i.e. they just

can't walk off the street and see you unless they have seen a physician

for the same problem. That is a minor need. More importantly, what is

needed is the signed certification of the plan of care. Once evaluated,

you know that a plan of care has to be sent to the physician and that plan

of care has required elements. Once it has all those elements (per the

Medicare Benefits Policy Manual) and is returned signed by the

physician...that is what Medicare requires, not a referral or order.

One caveat to this is that some states also have laws requiring orders so

you would also need to check on state law.

Please also let us know what type of practice you work at so additional

info can be provided, if needed.

M. Howell, PT. MPT

IPTA Payment Specialist

Meridian, ID

thowell@...

I have been told at various seminars that Medicare does not require

> physician orders to proceed with and be reimbursed for PT/OT/ST. Our

> company requires orders as a policy. In Ohio, we have direct access,

> but there are still questions as to whether our services are

> reimburseable by Medicare if there are no orders. Does anyone have

> specific knowledge of this issue?

>

> Wendland PT

> Ohio

>

> The information contained in this E-mail transmission is

> intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom

> it is addressed. It may contain privileged, confidential,

> and protected health information.

>

> If you received it in error, you are on notice of its status.

> Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then please

> delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it

> or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any

> other person. To do so could violate state and Federal

> privacy laws. Thank you for your cooperation.

> Please contact the sender if you need assistance.

>

> Dedicated to Hope, Healing and Recovery.

>

>

>

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Under outpatient Medicare part B CMS rules and regulations, a physician order is

not required for payment. What is required is a signed and dated plan of care. A

physician order can prove the patient was under the care of a physician or NPP

in case the plan of care was not signed timely.

You also have to look at the Conditions of Participation based on your practice

setting for Medicare. For example, in the CoP for hospitals, it states orders

are required. Hope this helps.

Rick Gawenda, PT

President

Gawenda Seminars & Consulting, Inc.

www.gawendaseminars.com

Follow Gawenda Seminars & Consulting, Inc on Facebook

Register for January 24, 2012 audio conference " 2012 Medicare & Private Payor

Updates " at

https://www.showmyevent.com/events/viewEventDetails.aspx?EventID=1735

Subject: Physician orders

To: " 'board@...' " , " 'consumer@...' "

, " 'ptmanager ' " <ptmanager >,

" 'geriatricspt ' " <geriatricspt >

Date: Wednesday, January 11, 2012, 11:27 AM

 

I have been told at various seminars that Medicare does not require

physician orders to proceed with and be reimbursed for PT/OT/ST. Our company

requires orders as a policy. In Ohio, we have direct access, but there are

still questions as to whether our services are reimburseable by Medicare if

there are no orders. Does anyone have specific knowledge of this issue?

Wendland PT

Ohio

The information contained in this E-mail transmission is

intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom

it is addressed. It may contain privileged, confidential,

and protected health information.

If you received it in error, you are on notice of its status.

Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then please

delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it

or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any

other person. To do so could violate state and Federal

privacy laws. Thank you for your cooperation.

Please contact the sender if you need assistance.

Dedicated to Hope, Healing and Recovery.

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  • 6 months later...
Guest guest

Although required in some cases, we have MD's complain all day long regarding

getting the POC faxed and asking for it signed. They don't want it and call us

to ask for an update when the patient has a return visit even if we just sent

the POC. Kind of a double edged sword sometimes...

Heidi

Billing Manager

Lees Summit, MO

RE: Re: physician orders

Re private or self-insured. I really don't see a need to get a POC signed

y the physician when it is not required. I don't think my optometrist /

entist / podiatrist / etc. sent a letter to the MD asking for POC

ignature. The physician needs to be involved if it impacts his treatment.

f not required then I would see no reason to obtain a referral and approval

f my POC. A letter of treatment would probably be sent to the physician as

professional courtesy.

I can understand it's a good marketing tool; but, If I was a physician, I

ould not want to sign a POC for something I did not order.

Am I being too much of a rebel?

Steve Passmore PT, MS (soon to be DPT)

Healthy Recruiting Tools

spass@...

Phone:

Fax:

" What We Did For You Yesterday is History. What Can We Do For You Today "

Recruiting Tools: Cold Calls ~ List Enhancement ~ Direct Mailers ~ Card

esign ~ Recruiting Software

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

f jcohen135

ent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 10:41 AM

o: PTManager

ubject: Re: physician orders

With regards to treating Medicare patients,why would you be concerned about

etting a signed plan of care from the physician? Would this increase the

ork or difficulty of starting a practice? In my experience, it does not. We

ake it our policy to get signed POCs for all of our patients, regardless of

nsurance carrier, just to keep the physicians informed of the treatment.

Cohen PT, MS

obile Rehab NC

I am thinking about starting a private practice on the side. I realize

Medicare patients would need physician referral but wonder what percentage

of private insurances require MD orders. We have practice without referral

in this state and I would anticipate most patients to be BC or something

like that. Possibly some champus as this is a large retirement area.

Steve Passmore PT, MS (soon to be DPT)

Healthy Recruiting Tools

spass@...

Phone:

Fax:

" What We Did For You Yesterday is History. What Can We Do For You Today "

Recruiting Tools: Cold Calls ~ List Enhancement ~ Direct Mailers ~ Card

Design ~ Recruiting Software

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Guest guest

Steve and Mark,

Much of that depends on the state and the particular contract-plan that

the insurers purchase. When we got direct access in CT a few years

ago--the insurance companies were the ones that wanted the DA bill

defeated. Hence, in CT many of the insurance companies now require a

referral (United Healthcare, Aetna, etc.). The big issuen however, has

been that electronic billing requires a physician NPI otherwise it is

kicked out. So those claims for DA now have to be dropped to paper and

it slows the reimbursement process. Have you found a way around this

issue that we haven't thought of or tried? I am all ears if that is the

case.

Peg

Peg Grey, PT, DPT, MA, OCS, ATC

Grey Physical Therapy & Sports Medicine

Personalized Conditioning by Grey

101 Phoenix Avenue

Suite 2D

Enfield, CT 06082

Phone:

Fax:

E-mail: pegg@...

Body Made Better by Grey. . . a tradition of caring since 1984

Steve,

We got limited direct access in Kansas in 2007 and we began using it in

my hospital in 2008. We have not had any problems getting reimbursed as

we have no commercial insurers that require a referral. Many others I

talked to in other direct access states at that time told me they had no

commercial insurers that required a referral either. They challenged me

to read my insurer contracts and read the insurer's policies, which I

did, and I found they were right. None of our 30+ contracts had any

language about referrals, and neither did their claims submission

policies (that was fun reading all of those, let me tell ya').

Like Rick said, Medicare Part B doesn't require a physician referral but

instead a signed plan of care. So if you have some strong physician

relationships you may be able to work out ahead of time with them that

you can see their patients without a referral and they will still sign

the POC, giving you semi-direct access with those physicians.

Mark Dwyer, PT, MHA

Director of Rehabilitation Services

Olathe Medical Center

Olathe, Kansas

markdwyer87@...

<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('markdwyer87@...')>

4aphysician orders

Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:53 pm (PDT) . Posted by: " Steve Passmore " steve2uu_99I

am thinking about starting a private practice on the side. I realize

Medicare patients would need physician referral but wonder what

percentage

of private insurances require MD orders. We have practice without

referral

in this state and I would anticipate most patients to be BC or something

like that. Possibly some champus as this is a large retirement area.

Steve Passmore PT, MS (soon to be DPT)

Healthy Recruiting Tools

spass@...

<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('spass@...')>

Phone:

Fax:

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Guest guest

Conditions of Participation for hospitals require all orders be timed and dated.

If the physicians that are timing the orders have staff privileges at a

hospital, they may just be in that mind set when writing orders.

Rick Gawenda, PT

President

Gawenda Seminars & Consulting, Inc.

www.gawendaseminars.com

> I am thinking about starting a private practice on the side. I realize

> Medicare patients would need physician referral but wonder what percentage

> of private insurances require MD orders. We have practice without referral

> in this state and I would anticipate most patients to be BC or something

> like that. Possibly some champus as this is a large retirement area.

>

> Steve Passmore PT, MS (soon to be DPT)

>

> Healthy Recruiting Tools

>

> spass@... <mailto:spass%40healthyrecruiting.com>

>

> Phone:

>

> Fax:

>

> " What We Did For You Yesterday is History. What Can We Do For You Today "

>

> Recruiting Tools: Cold Calls ~ List Enhancement ~ Direct Mailers ~ Card

> Design ~ Recruiting Software

>

>

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Guest guest

Conditions of Participation for hospitals require all orders be timed and dated.

If the physicians that are timing the orders have staff privileges at a

hospital, they may just be in that mind set when writing orders.

Rick Gawenda, PT

President

Gawenda Seminars & Consulting, Inc.

www.gawendaseminars.com

> I am thinking about starting a private practice on the side. I realize

> Medicare patients would need physician referral but wonder what percentage

> of private insurances require MD orders. We have practice without referral

> in this state and I would anticipate most patients to be BC or something

> like that. Possibly some champus as this is a large retirement area.

>

> Steve Passmore PT, MS (soon to be DPT)

>

> Healthy Recruiting Tools

>

> spass@... <mailto:spass%40healthyrecruiting.com>

>

> Phone:

>

> Fax:

>

> " What We Did For You Yesterday is History. What Can We Do For You Today "

>

> Recruiting Tools: Cold Calls ~ List Enhancement ~ Direct Mailers ~ Card

> Design ~ Recruiting Software

>

>

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Guest guest

Conditions of Participation for hospitals require all orders be timed and dated.

If the physicians that are timing the orders have staff privileges at a

hospital, they may just be in that mind set when writing orders.

Rick Gawenda, PT

President

Gawenda Seminars & Consulting, Inc.

www.gawendaseminars.com

> I am thinking about starting a private practice on the side. I realize

> Medicare patients would need physician referral but wonder what percentage

> of private insurances require MD orders. We have practice without referral

> in this state and I would anticipate most patients to be BC or something

> like that. Possibly some champus as this is a large retirement area.

>

> Steve Passmore PT, MS (soon to be DPT)

>

> Healthy Recruiting Tools

>

> spass@... <mailto:spass%40healthyrecruiting.com>

>

> Phone:

>

> Fax:

>

> " What We Did For You Yesterday is History. What Can We Do For You Today "

>

> Recruiting Tools: Cold Calls ~ List Enhancement ~ Direct Mailers ~ Card

> Design ~ Recruiting Software

>

>

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