Re: Need Clarification: Allithiamine Dangers/Andy?

[Guest guest]

I am sitting back listening to this and I am confused about

something.......any side effect seen with any other form of chelation seems

to get a lot more attention and concern and ultimately disapproval of the

agent all together. Many times I have heard people say they have had

seriously concerning side effects on DMSA or ALA but it does not seem to

cause the same reaction from the group. SOme children have fairly

interesting side effects from DMSA etc including horrid yeast overgrowths

that cause serious regressions in some of our kids. We have heard people

complain of side effects in: the gut, the stools, the behaviors, skin

rashes, the urine, inhow they smell, in eye sight. I think it is good to

be concerned about all forms of chelation but just as recommendations are

made to lower DMSA doses or to use certain supplements, that could be the

root of similar problems of other forms of chelation such as allathiamine.

I have been on this list for a long time. I have used DMSA and ALA for my

son with good results. We really had the yeast issues though which were

improved with multiple rounds of diflucan. (I could have gotten on here and

said that DMSA/ALA caused my son to walk suddenly as though he had severe

neurological disfunction, he began to laugh maniacally, he was spacey and

lost) An untrained eye would have just made the quick assumption that

chelation was bad and I had bad results. We treated the yeast, which

DMSA/ALA did cause, and wa la, we had beautiful child. This is what we need

to think about when considering other chelators. Because I would like to

avoid the hardship on his gut it has made me somewhat open to other methods,

however I am painfully cautious. For example, I tried NDF drops on my

autistic son after my two very educated friends used them and under very

qualified supervision. I was afraid to do this (my usual) but eventually

got up the nerve. I have heard ONE other person on this list have bad

results on them. When probed, she NEVER answered how she used them, how

much, how often, what she combined them with etc. It was just decided they

must be bad. We had wonderful results on NDF that I would say were

equivalent to DMSA/ALA but i was very cautious in my use of them and in

EXTREMELY tiny amounts. Now, I only based this on behavior, language

production, awareness....all improved NOTICEABLY to all around him. The

problem with these other forms of chelation is that WE dont seem to have

enough info about them and certainly not enough info yet maybe to determine

appropriate protocols and supplements to be used in conjunction.

I would like to use allathiomine on my NT daughter, who has severe

allergies, asthma, fully vaccinated, acidic blood like autistic kids, and

lead, mercury , arsenic traces in her blood elements test. etc but I cant

seem to get much info on it here. If anyone has info to volunteer I would

appreciate it greatly. I dont understand the bile concern well and dont

feel that it is discussed well....maybe because it really isnt understood

yet. Andy, what makes you think bile production decreases and what would be

the consequences? Would they be permanent and can they be reduced? What

makes us think some discoloration would be about bile? We see different

colors on DMSA/ALA in urine at the very least, as well as weird smells

etc....no one seems to freak about that......therefore, I dont know if there

are SEROIUS reasons for concern or if the root of this is about sticking

with what we know. Please help....

[ ] Need Clarification: Allithiamine

Dangers/Andy?

> I have read the posts of various people in the last few weeks both

> encouraging and concerning allithiamine/TTFD. Bile production

> cessation as well as aggravation of symptoms. Concerned about

> thiamine I did look for a supplement with b-1 in it.

>

> Vitamin C 500 mg

> Vitamin B1 166 mg

> L-Cysteine 167 mg

> L-Glutathione 8 mg

>

> Using the supplement last week (1-2 capsules diluted in 32 oz of

> juice and other supplements) I did notice my son having fewer bowel

> momevements, but no other effects. This week my oldest son seems not

> only " calm " but a little dull. I don't know if it's because of the

> less hyperactivity that he seems that way?? He also He also has a

> range of mushy so clay firm, very very golden brown stools.

>

> We had a no problem, staying on chelation schedule with 50mg dmsa &

> 50mg ala. We ended up with the lasting effect of better enunciation

> of words and greater compliance to verbal commands.

>

> Last night was the beginning " off period " for chelation. I had just

> mixed up a new 32 oz of juice in the morning, and we noted an

> increase in visual stimming (including a facination with the lines in

> the linoleum he's seen every day of his life. He touched at them as

> though he expected the lines were something he could touch at a

> higher measure than the surface of the floor), less interest in toys.

>

> I increased his vitamin a this morning and his vitamin c, and the

> visual stimming is down. I do worry about the yellow stools.

>

> What is the danger of bile cessation, or decrease in bile

> production?? What should we look out for?

>

> Andy, after a few more weeks of reading and consideration, do you

> believe allithiamine or b-1 in higher doses is more harmful than good?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Lyn

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, people are quite irrational about what they are scared of or

inappropriately comfortable with when it comes to these therapies.

Since allithiamine isn't chelation, isn't likely to be effective at

removing metals, is pretty clearly demonstrated NOT to do so by the

random data bantered about the list from Lonsdale's paper, and mostly

is just another form of vitamin B1, the question is how bad is vitamin

B1 deficiency compared to the side effects it gives a particular kid.

Stools are dark because of pigments the bile carries into them. No

bile, no pigments, stools get yellow or gray. This is a classic sign

of bile flow impairment that isn't believed to come from other causes.

It isn't something that might be any one of 43 different things. Thus

the repeated reports of allithiamine leading to yellow stools (and

some constipation) is a pretty compelling indication it impairs bile

flow in some people.

Andy . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . ..

> I am sitting back listening to this and I am confused about

> something.......any side effect seen with any other form of

chelation seems

> to get a lot more attention and concern and ultimately disapproval

of the

> agent all together. Many times I have heard people say they have

had

> seriously concerning side effects on DMSA or ALA but it does not

seem to

> cause the same reaction from the group. SOme children have fairly

> interesting side effects from DMSA etc including horrid yeast

overgrowths

> that cause serious regressions in some of our kids. We have heard

people

> complain of side effects in: the gut, the stools, the behaviors,

skin

> rashes, the urine, inhow they smell, in eye sight. I think it is

good to

> be concerned about all forms of chelation but just as

recommendations are

> made to lower DMSA doses or to use certain supplements, that could

be the

> root of similar problems of other forms of chelation such as

allathiamine.

> I have been on this list for a long time. I have used DMSA and ALA

for my

> son with good results. We really had the yeast issues though which

were

> improved with multiple rounds of diflucan. (I could have gotten on

here and

> said that DMSA/ALA caused my son to walk suddenly as though he had

severe

> neurological disfunction, he began to laugh maniacally, he was

spacey and

> lost) An untrained eye would have just made the quick assumption

that

> chelation was bad and I had bad results. We treated the yeast,

which

> DMSA/ALA did cause, and wa la, we had beautiful child. This is what

we need

> to think about when considering other chelators. Because I would

like to

> avoid the hardship on his gut it has made me somewhat open to other

methods,

> however I am painfully cautious. For example, I tried NDF drops on

my

> autistic son after my two very educated friends used them and under

very

> qualified supervision. I was afraid to do this (my usual) but

eventually

> got up the nerve. I have heard ONE other person on this list have

bad

> results on them. When probed, she NEVER answered how she used them,

how

> much, how often, what she combined them with etc. It was just

decided they

> must be bad. We had wonderful results on NDF that I would say were

> equivalent to DMSA/ALA but i was very cautious in my use of them and

in

> EXTREMELY tiny amounts. Now, I only based this on behavior,

language

> production, awareness....all improved NOTICEABLY to all around him.

The

> problem with these other forms of chelation is that WE dont seem to

have

> enough info about them and certainly not enough info yet maybe to

determine

> appropriate protocols and supplements to be used in conjunction.

> I would like to use allathiomine on my NT daughter, who has severe

> allergies, asthma, fully vaccinated, acidic blood like autistic

kids, and

> lead, mercury , arsenic traces in her blood elements test. etc but

I cant

> seem to get much info on it here. If anyone has info to volunteer

I would

> appreciate it greatly. I dont understand the bile concern well and

dont

> feel that it is discussed well....maybe because it really isnt

understood

> yet. Andy, what makes you think bile production decreases and what

would be

> the consequences? Would they be permanent and can they be reduced?

What

> makes us think some discoloration would be about bile? We see

different

> colors on DMSA/ALA in urine at the very least, as well as weird

smells

> etc....no one seems to freak about that......therefore, I dont know

if there

> are SEROIUS reasons for concern or if the root of this is about

sticking

> with what we know. Please help....

>

>

>

> [ ] Need Clarification: Allithiamine

> Dangers/Andy?

>

>

> > I have read the posts of various people in the last few weeks both

> > encouraging and concerning allithiamine/TTFD. Bile production

> > cessation as well as aggravation of symptoms. Concerned about

> > thiamine I did look for a supplement with b-1 in it.

> >

> > Vitamin C 500 mg

> > Vitamin B1 166 mg

> > L-Cysteine 167 mg

> > L-Glutathione 8 mg

> >

> > Using the supplement last week (1-2 capsules diluted in 32 oz of

> > juice and other supplements) I did notice my son having fewer

bowel

> > momevements, but no other effects. This week my oldest son seems

not

> > only " calm " but a little dull. I don't know if it's because of

the

> > less hyperactivity that he seems that way?? He also He also has a

> > range of mushy so clay firm, very very golden brown stools.

> >

> > We had a no problem, staying on chelation schedule with 50mg dmsa

&

> > 50mg ala. We ended up with the lasting effect of better

enunciation

> > of words and greater compliance to verbal commands.

> >

> > Last night was the beginning " off period " for chelation. I had

just

> > mixed up a new 32 oz of juice in the morning, and we noted an

> > increase in visual stimming (including a facination with the lines

in

> > the linoleum he's seen every day of his life. He touched at them

as

> > though he expected the lines were something he could touch at a

> > higher measure than the surface of the floor), less interest in

toys.

> >

> > I increased his vitamin a this morning and his vitamin c, and the

> > visual stimming is down. I do worry about the yellow stools.

> >

> > What is the danger of bile cessation, or decrease in bile

> > production?? What should we look out for?

> >

> > Andy, after a few more weeks of reading and consideration, do you

> > believe allithiamine or b-1 in higher doses is more harmful than

good?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Lyn

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > =======================================================

> >

[Guest guest]

> What is the danger of bile cessation, or decrease in bile

> production??

1. Bile carries out toxins. If it stops, his metabolism poisons him.

2. Bile allows digestion of fats.

3. If bile isn't flowing, it is most likely because of liver damage.

> What should we look out for?

>

> Andy, after a few more weeks of reading and consideration, do you

> believe allithiamine or b-1 in higher doses is more harmful than

good?

I think allithiamine is OK in those who show no sign of bile flow

impairment and benefit from it.

I would not suggest using it in any child who repeatedly shows signs

of bile flow impairment when it is tried.

Andy . . .. . . . . . .. . .

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Prokofiew " <aprokofiew@e...>

wrote:

> Stools are dark because of pigments the bile carries into them. No

> bile, no pigments, stools get yellow or gray. This is a classic

sign

> of bile flow impairment that isn't believed to come from other

causes.

> It isn't something that might be any one of 43 different things.

Thus

> the repeated reports of allithiamine leading to yellow stools (and

> some constipation) is a pretty compelling indication it impairs bile

> flow in some people>>>>>>>>>>>>

>

> what else helps this besides Taurine?

glycine, phosphatidylcholine, lecithin, NAC, milk thistle, TAPS.

Each may have it's own reason why it is or is not appropriate.

. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .

> thanks Andy.....

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been remo

[Guest guest]

Stools are dark because of pigments the bile carries into them. No

bile, no pigments, stools get yellow or gray. This is a classic sign

of bile flow impairment that isn't believed to come from other causes.

It isn't something that might be any one of 43 different things. Thus

the repeated reports of allithiamine leading to yellow stools (and

some constipation) is a pretty compelling indication it impairs bile

flow in some people>>>>>>>>>>>>

what else helps this besides Taurine?

thanks Andy.....

[Guest guest]

> > Stools are dark because of pigments the bile carries into them.

No

> > bile, no pigments, stools get yellow or gray. This is a classic

> sign

> > of bile flow impairment that isn't believed to come from other

> causes.

> > It isn't something that might be any one of 43 different things.

> Thus

> > the repeated reports of allithiamine leading to yellow stools

(and

> > some constipation) is a pretty compelling indication it impairs

bile

> > flow in some people>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >

> > what else helps this besides Taurine?

>

> glycine, phosphatidylcholine, lecithin, NAC, milk thistle, TAPS.

>

> Each may have it's own reason why it is or is not appropriate.

> . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .

> > thanks Andy.....

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been remo