Re: Boy Scouts

[Guest guest]

I spent the happiest days of my youth as a scout at Worth Ranch (I think 6

summers) and 2 at Philmont. It pains me to hear what is happening in the

Longhorn Council. The simple question to ask the Longhorn Council and Worth

Ranch camp adminsitrators is, " What happened to the Boy Scout motto of 'Be

Prepared'. " It has been obviously lost.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Eagle Scout 1969

Midlothian, TX

Re: Re: Boy Scouts

In East Texas Area Council, I was the privacy officer. They were secured in

a box at the end of camp with a padlock on it, and I had the key.

I never had any problem in NETSEO when I was a scout, or on staff there (non

health lodge). I think Camp Dierks ended either this week or next.

Sad, they used to run 5-6 weeks and now do 2-3.

jh

Re: Re: Boy Scouts

I have served as Health Officer for the NeTseO Council at Camp Dierks as

well as day camps. Now that the question about Hippa has came up. What does

one do with the first aid log books at the end of camp?

I have had two of my boys attend camp so far this year, and happen to have

a registration form in front of me. The following statement is an excerpt

from small paragraph at the bottom for the parent to sign: " In the event I

cannot be reached in an emergency, I hereby give permission to the physician

selected by the adult leader in charge to hospitalize, secure proper

anesthesia or order injection or surgery for my son " I have not had any

problems with the NeTseO council, or any of the Directors involved.

Would like to know about the logs before I do go to the camps later this

year

Norman Frazier LP

----- Original Message -----

[Guest guest]

I spent the happiest days of my youth as a scout at Worth Ranch (I think 6

summers) and 2 at Philmont. It pains me to hear what is happening in the

Longhorn Council. The simple question to ask the Longhorn Council and Worth

Ranch camp adminsitrators is, " What happened to the Boy Scout motto of 'Be

Prepared'. " It has been obviously lost.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Eagle Scout 1969

Midlothian, TX

Re: Re: Boy Scouts

In East Texas Area Council, I was the privacy officer. They were secured in

a box at the end of camp with a padlock on it, and I had the key.

I never had any problem in NETSEO when I was a scout, or on staff there (non

health lodge). I think Camp Dierks ended either this week or next.

Sad, they used to run 5-6 weeks and now do 2-3.

jh

Re: Re: Boy Scouts

I have served as Health Officer for the NeTseO Council at Camp Dierks as

well as day camps. Now that the question about Hippa has came up. What does

one do with the first aid log books at the end of camp?

I have had two of my boys attend camp so far this year, and happen to have

a registration form in front of me. The following statement is an excerpt

from small paragraph at the bottom for the parent to sign: " In the event I

cannot be reached in an emergency, I hereby give permission to the physician

selected by the adult leader in charge to hospitalize, secure proper

anesthesia or order injection or surgery for my son " I have not had any

problems with the NeTseO council, or any of the Directors involved.

Would like to know about the logs before I do go to the camps later this

year

Norman Frazier LP

----- Original Message -----

[Guest guest]

I spent the happiest days of my youth as a scout at Worth Ranch (I think 6

summers) and 2 at Philmont. It pains me to hear what is happening in the

Longhorn Council. The simple question to ask the Longhorn Council and Worth

Ranch camp adminsitrators is, " What happened to the Boy Scout motto of 'Be

Prepared'. " It has been obviously lost.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Eagle Scout 1969

Midlothian, TX

Re: Re: Boy Scouts

In East Texas Area Council, I was the privacy officer. They were secured in

a box at the end of camp with a padlock on it, and I had the key.

I never had any problem in NETSEO when I was a scout, or on staff there (non

health lodge). I think Camp Dierks ended either this week or next.

Sad, they used to run 5-6 weeks and now do 2-3.

jh

Re: Re: Boy Scouts

I have served as Health Officer for the NeTseO Council at Camp Dierks as

well as day camps. Now that the question about Hippa has came up. What does

one do with the first aid log books at the end of camp?

I have had two of my boys attend camp so far this year, and happen to have

a registration form in front of me. The following statement is an excerpt

from small paragraph at the bottom for the parent to sign: " In the event I

cannot be reached in an emergency, I hereby give permission to the physician

selected by the adult leader in charge to hospitalize, secure proper

anesthesia or order injection or surgery for my son " I have not had any

problems with the NeTseO council, or any of the Directors involved.

Would like to know about the logs before I do go to the camps later this

year

Norman Frazier LP

----- Original Message -----

[Guest guest]

Gene,

That's kinda where I was headed with that. I would think that if the parents

had to sign consent to treat, that the BSA would have the opporunity to

include a HIPPA release as well. That said, with what has been learned of

the BSA, or at least that particular council, asuumptions are as we always

thought them to be.

Mike

Re: Boy Scouts

a quick question for group.... Does contacting the camp director

violate any of the 30,000 page HIPPA rules???

Larry

[Guest guest]

Gene,

That's kinda where I was headed with that. I would think that if the parents

had to sign consent to treat, that the BSA would have the opporunity to

include a HIPPA release as well. That said, with what has been learned of

the BSA, or at least that particular council, asuumptions are as we always

thought them to be.

Mike

Re: Boy Scouts

a quick question for group.... Does contacting the camp director

violate any of the 30,000 page HIPPA rules???

Larry

[Guest guest]

Gene,

That's kinda where I was headed with that. I would think that if the parents

had to sign consent to treat, that the BSA would have the opporunity to

include a HIPPA release as well. That said, with what has been learned of

the BSA, or at least that particular council, asuumptions are as we always

thought them to be.

Mike

Re: Boy Scouts

a quick question for group.... Does contacting the camp director

violate any of the 30,000 page HIPPA rules???

Larry

[Guest guest]

This quote from the program director after EMS left w/ pt " We don't

need no God D-mn ambulance for a kid who got burned " . " I know I have no

medical training but I know what this camp needs and what it doesnt- and

we dont need no Damn ambulance here at camp for this stupid shit " -

sounds like Adam Weems. . .

Rick LaChance, EMT-LP

Web/Streaming CE Developer

Emergency Medicine Education

UT Southwestern Medical Center

Dallas, TX 75390-9134

[Guest guest]

This quote from the program director after EMS left w/ pt " We don't

need no God D-mn ambulance for a kid who got burned " . " I know I have no

medical training but I know what this camp needs and what it doesnt- and

we dont need no Damn ambulance here at camp for this stupid shit " -

sounds like Adam Weems. . .

Rick LaChance, EMT-LP

Web/Streaming CE Developer

Emergency Medicine Education

UT Southwestern Medical Center

Dallas, TX 75390-9134

[Guest guest]

This quote from the program director after EMS left w/ pt " We don't

need no God D-mn ambulance for a kid who got burned " . " I know I have no

medical training but I know what this camp needs and what it doesnt- and

we dont need no Damn ambulance here at camp for this stupid shit " -

sounds like Adam Weems. . .

Rick LaChance, EMT-LP

Web/Streaming CE Developer

Emergency Medicine Education

UT Southwestern Medical Center

Dallas, TX 75390-9134

[Guest guest]

Wow, this is all news to me! I have worked as a Camp Nurse and Health

Officer for the Boy Scouts (including the Longhorn Council and Worth Ranch),

Camp Fire Girls, and YMCA organizations on multiple occasions over the

years. Not once have I had anything but full support, both administratively

and financially, from the Camp Director and the Council or Executive

Offices. So long as I didn't start ordering high dollar durable medical

equipment, they never questioned my supply requisitions.

The only similar difficulties I ever encountered were actually with a

hard-ass medical director who insisted that he approve any and all ambulance

transports. I had a child suffer a 6 foot fall to a concrete floor with

loss of consciousness and altered mental status in the middle of the night.

The child was transported by ambulance, then treated and released with

precautions after x-rays. The medical director had a fit the next day and

said he would have never approved an ambulance transport for that. Of

course, that is easy for him to say from his air conditioned office while

reading a sterile ER report the next day. And we all know that it would

have been my license on the line for failing to send that child for

evaluation with proper stabilization, whether the MD approved it or not.

I think there is merit to the " yahoo " theory in this case. With many

organizations, they will specify a minimal training level which reflects

realities. However, in the case of the Boy Scouts (at least when I was

working with them), they were satisfied to have any kid's mom with a first

aid card serve as their Health Officer. And when they actually got an

experienced, professional nurse or medic, they were so happily impressed

that they gladly left everything up to them. But I know for a fact that a

lot of those first aiders, as well as a bunch of yahoo EMT's without the

proper experience for the remote scenario, would indeed send way too many

kids to the ER and physicians office for nothing.

They do indeed need to do something to control wasting financial and

personnel resources on trivial purposes. With this I agree. But you would

think that their legal staff would have let them know that the way to do

this is by providing properly trained medical personnel in the first place.

And in my learned opinion, first aiders and EMT's do not qualify. For that

matter, neither do most street paramedics.

Rob

[Guest guest]

Wow, this is all news to me! I have worked as a Camp Nurse and Health

Officer for the Boy Scouts (including the Longhorn Council and Worth Ranch),

Camp Fire Girls, and YMCA organizations on multiple occasions over the

years. Not once have I had anything but full support, both administratively

and financially, from the Camp Director and the Council or Executive

Offices. So long as I didn't start ordering high dollar durable medical

equipment, they never questioned my supply requisitions.

The only similar difficulties I ever encountered were actually with a

hard-ass medical director who insisted that he approve any and all ambulance

transports. I had a child suffer a 6 foot fall to a concrete floor with

loss of consciousness and altered mental status in the middle of the night.

The child was transported by ambulance, then treated and released with

precautions after x-rays. The medical director had a fit the next day and

said he would have never approved an ambulance transport for that. Of

course, that is easy for him to say from his air conditioned office while

reading a sterile ER report the next day. And we all know that it would

have been my license on the line for failing to send that child for

evaluation with proper stabilization, whether the MD approved it or not.

I think there is merit to the " yahoo " theory in this case. With many

organizations, they will specify a minimal training level which reflects

realities. However, in the case of the Boy Scouts (at least when I was

working with them), they were satisfied to have any kid's mom with a first

aid card serve as their Health Officer. And when they actually got an

experienced, professional nurse or medic, they were so happily impressed

that they gladly left everything up to them. But I know for a fact that a

lot of those first aiders, as well as a bunch of yahoo EMT's without the

proper experience for the remote scenario, would indeed send way too many

kids to the ER and physicians office for nothing.

They do indeed need to do something to control wasting financial and

personnel resources on trivial purposes. With this I agree. But you would

think that their legal staff would have let them know that the way to do

this is by providing properly trained medical personnel in the first place.

And in my learned opinion, first aiders and EMT's do not qualify. For that

matter, neither do most street paramedics.

Rob

[Guest guest]

How long ago has it been since you were at Worth Ranch?

I have been told by ex-health officers & staffers that they havent had supplies

in the last 3-5 years.

I was told even by the Camp Director at WR this year, they cant keep anyone out

there. I wonder why? Lack of financial resources, lack of support from Dan

Clifton (who cant tell a Paramedic from an EMT from a Red Cross F.A. provider)?

Interfereing with patient care? We may never know, but I know they have had

very few people return to Worth Ranch after a season or two. Even another

former Health Officer from WR put this in his reply earlier, which I think

speaks volumes. Glad to know I am not the only one who has worked there, and

observed the same things:

" The major problem I saw in the Longhorn Council was a lack of policy

and prcoedure manual for the health officers. I would have worked

2003 but refused the position when two weeks before summer camp was

to start they finally notified me they would need me (I interviewed

in February) and at that time they had no medical supplies nor did

they have a budget for them. I was told there were supplies on site,

but had talked to the ranger two weeks before and was advised there

were none.

I was also cincerned with liability issues they couldn't deal with.

Hvwing trained medical personnel on site when campers are there for

any activity is a very low priority for the Longhorn Counicl and has

been for the 8 years I have been associated with it. I used to work

as the health officer for some district events but with one exception

was expeted to provide my own supplies (at my cost and I was also

volunteering)

Dan Clifton the council exec and his staff don't know a paramedic

from an EMT nor from a Red Cross First Aid person.

I would stay away from dealings with this council "

Re: Boy Scouts

Wow, this is all news to me! I have worked as a Camp Nurse and Health

Officer for the Boy Scouts (including the Longhorn Council and Worth Ranch),

Camp Fire Girls, and YMCA organizations on multiple occasions over the

years. Not once have I had anything but full support, both administratively

and financially, from the Camp Director and the Council or Executive

Offices. So long as I didn't start ordering high dollar durable medical

equipment, they never questioned my supply requisitions.

The only similar difficulties I ever encountered were actually with a

hard-ass medical director who insisted that he approve any and all ambulance

transports. I had a child suffer a 6 foot fall to a concrete floor with

loss of consciousness and altered mental status in the middle of the night.

The child was transported by ambulance, then treated and released with

precautions after x-rays. The medical director had a fit the next day and

said he would have never approved an ambulance transport for that. Of

course, that is easy for him to say from his air conditioned office while

reading a sterile ER report the next day. And we all know that it would

have been my license on the line for failing to send that child for

evaluation with proper stabilization, whether the MD approved it or not.

I think there is merit to the " yahoo " theory in this case. With many

organizations, they will specify a minimal training level which reflects

realities. However, in the case of the Boy Scouts (at least when I was

working with them), they were satisfied to have any kid's mom with a first

aid card serve as their Health Officer. And when they actually got an

experienced, professional nurse or medic, they were so happily impressed

that they gladly left everything up to them. But I know for a fact that a

lot of those first aiders, as well as a bunch of yahoo EMT's without the

proper experience for the remote scenario, would indeed send way too many

kids to the ER and physicians office for nothing.

They do indeed need to do something to control wasting financial and

personnel resources on trivial purposes. With this I agree. But you would

think that their legal staff would have let them know that the way to do

this is by providing properly trained medical personnel in the first place.

And in my learned opinion, first aiders and EMT's do not qualify. For that

matter, neither do most street paramedics.

Rob

[Guest guest]

How long ago has it been since you were at Worth Ranch?

I have been told by ex-health officers & staffers that they havent had supplies

in the last 3-5 years.

I was told even by the Camp Director at WR this year, they cant keep anyone out

there. I wonder why? Lack of financial resources, lack of support from Dan

Clifton (who cant tell a Paramedic from an EMT from a Red Cross F.A. provider)?

Interfereing with patient care? We may never know, but I know they have had

very few people return to Worth Ranch after a season or two. Even another

former Health Officer from WR put this in his reply earlier, which I think

speaks volumes. Glad to know I am not the only one who has worked there, and

observed the same things:

" The major problem I saw in the Longhorn Council was a lack of policy

and prcoedure manual for the health officers. I would have worked

2003 but refused the position when two weeks before summer camp was

to start they finally notified me they would need me (I interviewed

in February) and at that time they had no medical supplies nor did

they have a budget for them. I was told there were supplies on site,

but had talked to the ranger two weeks before and was advised there

were none.

I was also cincerned with liability issues they couldn't deal with.

Hvwing trained medical personnel on site when campers are there for

any activity is a very low priority for the Longhorn Counicl and has

been for the 8 years I have been associated with it. I used to work

as the health officer for some district events but with one exception

was expeted to provide my own supplies (at my cost and I was also

volunteering)

Dan Clifton the council exec and his staff don't know a paramedic

from an EMT nor from a Red Cross First Aid person.

I would stay away from dealings with this council "

Re: Boy Scouts

Wow, this is all news to me! I have worked as a Camp Nurse and Health

Officer for the Boy Scouts (including the Longhorn Council and Worth Ranch),

Camp Fire Girls, and YMCA organizations on multiple occasions over the

years. Not once have I had anything but full support, both administratively

and financially, from the Camp Director and the Council or Executive

Offices. So long as I didn't start ordering high dollar durable medical

equipment, they never questioned my supply requisitions.

The only similar difficulties I ever encountered were actually with a

hard-ass medical director who insisted that he approve any and all ambulance

transports. I had a child suffer a 6 foot fall to a concrete floor with

loss of consciousness and altered mental status in the middle of the night.

The child was transported by ambulance, then treated and released with

precautions after x-rays. The medical director had a fit the next day and

said he would have never approved an ambulance transport for that. Of

course, that is easy for him to say from his air conditioned office while

reading a sterile ER report the next day. And we all know that it would

have been my license on the line for failing to send that child for

evaluation with proper stabilization, whether the MD approved it or not.

I think there is merit to the " yahoo " theory in this case. With many

organizations, they will specify a minimal training level which reflects

realities. However, in the case of the Boy Scouts (at least when I was

working with them), they were satisfied to have any kid's mom with a first

aid card serve as their Health Officer. And when they actually got an

experienced, professional nurse or medic, they were so happily impressed

that they gladly left everything up to them. But I know for a fact that a

lot of those first aiders, as well as a bunch of yahoo EMT's without the

proper experience for the remote scenario, would indeed send way too many

kids to the ER and physicians office for nothing.

They do indeed need to do something to control wasting financial and

personnel resources on trivial purposes. With this I agree. But you would

think that their legal staff would have let them know that the way to do

this is by providing properly trained medical personnel in the first place.

And in my learned opinion, first aiders and EMT's do not qualify. For that

matter, neither do most street paramedics.

Rob

[Guest guest]

How long ago has it been since you were at Worth Ranch?

I have been told by ex-health officers & staffers that they havent had supplies

in the last 3-5 years.

I was told even by the Camp Director at WR this year, they cant keep anyone out

there. I wonder why? Lack of financial resources, lack of support from Dan

Clifton (who cant tell a Paramedic from an EMT from a Red Cross F.A. provider)?

Interfereing with patient care? We may never know, but I know they have had

very few people return to Worth Ranch after a season or two. Even another

former Health Officer from WR put this in his reply earlier, which I think

speaks volumes. Glad to know I am not the only one who has worked there, and

observed the same things:

" The major problem I saw in the Longhorn Council was a lack of policy

and prcoedure manual for the health officers. I would have worked

2003 but refused the position when two weeks before summer camp was

to start they finally notified me they would need me (I interviewed

in February) and at that time they had no medical supplies nor did

they have a budget for them. I was told there were supplies on site,

but had talked to the ranger two weeks before and was advised there

were none.

I was also cincerned with liability issues they couldn't deal with.

Hvwing trained medical personnel on site when campers are there for

any activity is a very low priority for the Longhorn Counicl and has

been for the 8 years I have been associated with it. I used to work

as the health officer for some district events but with one exception

was expeted to provide my own supplies (at my cost and I was also

volunteering)

Dan Clifton the council exec and his staff don't know a paramedic

from an EMT nor from a Red Cross First Aid person.

I would stay away from dealings with this council "

Re: Boy Scouts

Wow, this is all news to me! I have worked as a Camp Nurse and Health

Officer for the Boy Scouts (including the Longhorn Council and Worth Ranch),

Camp Fire Girls, and YMCA organizations on multiple occasions over the

years. Not once have I had anything but full support, both administratively

and financially, from the Camp Director and the Council or Executive

Offices. So long as I didn't start ordering high dollar durable medical

equipment, they never questioned my supply requisitions.

The only similar difficulties I ever encountered were actually with a

hard-ass medical director who insisted that he approve any and all ambulance

transports. I had a child suffer a 6 foot fall to a concrete floor with

loss of consciousness and altered mental status in the middle of the night.

The child was transported by ambulance, then treated and released with

precautions after x-rays. The medical director had a fit the next day and

said he would have never approved an ambulance transport for that. Of

course, that is easy for him to say from his air conditioned office while

reading a sterile ER report the next day. And we all know that it would

have been my license on the line for failing to send that child for

evaluation with proper stabilization, whether the MD approved it or not.

I think there is merit to the " yahoo " theory in this case. With many

organizations, they will specify a minimal training level which reflects

realities. However, in the case of the Boy Scouts (at least when I was

working with them), they were satisfied to have any kid's mom with a first

aid card serve as their Health Officer. And when they actually got an

experienced, professional nurse or medic, they were so happily impressed

that they gladly left everything up to them. But I know for a fact that a

lot of those first aiders, as well as a bunch of yahoo EMT's without the

proper experience for the remote scenario, would indeed send way too many

kids to the ER and physicians office for nothing.

They do indeed need to do something to control wasting financial and

personnel resources on trivial purposes. With this I agree. But you would

think that their legal staff would have let them know that the way to do

this is by providing properly trained medical personnel in the first place.

And in my learned opinion, first aiders and EMT's do not qualify. For that

matter, neither do most street paramedics.

Rob

[Guest guest]

> >And in my learned opinion, first aiders and EMT's do not qualify. 

> For thatmatter, neither do most street paramedics.

well besides Rob , who would?

On Sunday, Jun 20, 2004, at 21:48 US/Central, Rob composed:

> Wow, this is all news to me!  I have worked as a Camp Nurse and Health

> Officer for the Boy Scouts (including the Longhorn Council and Worth

> Ranch),

> Camp Fire Girls, and YMCA organizations on multiple occasions over the

> years.  Not once have I had anything but full support, both

> administratively

> and financially, from the Camp Director and the Council or Executive

> Offices.  So long as I didn't start ordering high dollar durable

> medical

> equipment, they never questioned my supply requisitions.

>

> The only similar difficulties I ever encountered were actually with a

> hard-ass medical director who insisted that he approve any and all

> ambulance

> transports.  I had a child suffer a 6 foot fall to a concrete floor

> with

> loss of consciousness and altered mental status in the middle of the

> night.

> The child was transported by ambulance, then treated and released with

> precautions after x-rays.  The medical director had a fit the next day

> and

> said he would have never approved an ambulance transport for that.  Of

> course, that is easy for him to say from his air conditioned office

> while

> reading a sterile ER report the next day.  And we all know that it

> would

> have been my license on the line for failing to send that child for

> evaluation with proper stabilization, whether the MD approved it or

> not.

>

> I think there is merit to the " yahoo " theory in this case.  With many

> organizations, they will specify a minimal training level which

> reflects

> realities.  However, in the case of the Boy Scouts (at least when I was

> working with them), they were satisfied to have any kid's mom with a

> first

> aid card serve as their Health Officer.  And when they actually got an

> experienced, professional nurse or medic, they were so happily

> impressed

> that they gladly left everything up to them.  But I know for a fact

> that a

> lot of those first aiders, as well as a bunch of yahoo EMT's without

> the

> proper experience for the remote scenario, would indeed send way too

> many

> kids to the ER and physicians office for nothing.

>

> They do indeed need to do something to control wasting financial and

> personnel resources on trivial purposes.  With this I agree.  But you

> would

> think that their legal staff would have let them know that the way to

> do

> this is by providing properly trained medical personnel in the first

> place.

> And in my learned opinion, first aiders and EMT's do not qualify.  For

> that

> matter, neither do most street paramedics.

>

> Rob

>

[Guest guest]

> How long ago has it been since you were at Worth Ranch?

>

> I have been told by ex-health officers & staffers that they havent

had supplies in the last 3-5 years.

This was almost 20 years ago that I was at Worth Ranch. I certainly

was not implying that I disagreed with the information that you and

others had provided. I was simply saying that things had not always

been this way. Just more proof that everything was better when Reagan

was President.

I am sorry to see this sad state of affairs.

Rob

[Guest guest]

> How long ago has it been since you were at Worth Ranch?

>

> I have been told by ex-health officers & staffers that they havent

had supplies in the last 3-5 years.

This was almost 20 years ago that I was at Worth Ranch. I certainly

was not implying that I disagreed with the information that you and

others had provided. I was simply saying that things had not always

been this way. Just more proof that everything was better when Reagan

was President.

I am sorry to see this sad state of affairs.

Rob

[Guest guest]

> How long ago has it been since you were at Worth Ranch?

>

> I have been told by ex-health officers & staffers that they havent

had supplies in the last 3-5 years.

This was almost 20 years ago that I was at Worth Ranch. I certainly

was not implying that I disagreed with the information that you and

others had provided. I was simply saying that things had not always

been this way. Just more proof that everything was better when Reagan

was President.

I am sorry to see this sad state of affairs.

Rob

[Guest guest]

There are employees at those camps, and they are covered by OSHA, which

would be extremely happy to make an unannounced inspection of the camps and

the council, as well as take statements from medical personnel with

knowledge of the situation. If you want something done, and have failed to

get satisfaction through the council, call OSHA. I believe this is the

fastest way to make it happen. You can get the ACA and other organizations

to browbeat them, but short of a wrongful death or disability lawsuit, an

OSHA fine is the biggest kick in the pants the Council could receive. It

would certainly wake them up to some realities.

Rob

[Guest guest]

There are employees at those camps, and they are covered by OSHA, which

would be extremely happy to make an unannounced inspection of the camps and

the council, as well as take statements from medical personnel with

knowledge of the situation. If you want something done, and have failed to

get satisfaction through the council, call OSHA. I believe this is the

fastest way to make it happen. You can get the ACA and other organizations

to browbeat them, but short of a wrongful death or disability lawsuit, an

OSHA fine is the biggest kick in the pants the Council could receive. It

would certainly wake them up to some realities.

Rob

[Guest guest]

There are employees at those camps, and they are covered by OSHA, which

would be extremely happy to make an unannounced inspection of the camps and

the council, as well as take statements from medical personnel with

knowledge of the situation. If you want something done, and have failed to

get satisfaction through the council, call OSHA. I believe this is the

fastest way to make it happen. You can get the ACA and other organizations

to browbeat them, but short of a wrongful death or disability lawsuit, an

OSHA fine is the biggest kick in the pants the Council could receive. It

would certainly wake them up to some realities.

Rob

[Guest guest]

I myself have been to that camp. I liked it a lot.

That's all.

On Sunday, Jun 20, 2004, at 17:56 US/Central, txbasic composed:

>

> ... To help other people at all times.

>

> Seems like some people have forgotten the oath.

>

> When I was 15 my cut his hand badly at a camp in west texas in the

> Mountains. (Camp Buffalo Trail Council I belvie was its name)

> They had an LVN and an EMT-P working the 1st aid station. They also

> had a list of all EMS/MD's/Nurses/Medical staff ect., that were

> attending camp that week, so if needed they had some sort of back up.

> My brother needed stiches, so they found an MD from Dumas, Tx who was

> the ER doc there, to come and look at my brother. With little

> supplies, which included a suture kit the EMT-P had, and some free

> pain Rx's that were samples, that he brought, he sutured up my

> brother's hand. I think there were about 10-15 in all. They doc did

> and awesome job. You can't even tell that there was ever anything

> wrong. I don't know what his name was, but he was short and had a

> brown " Goat-tee " . He was awesome, and I aplaud this camp in their

> great staff. Too bad this camp your speaking off has to be the

> exception, instead of the norm.

>                      - Txbasic, NREMT-I

>

> P.S. - Do the campers parents know of these things? I'm sure some of

> those kids parents are doc's, lawyers, and emt's alike... sure would

> be bad to have angry parents beating on the council doors wanting to

> know what was going on.

[Guest guest]

I myself have been to that camp. I liked it a lot.

That's all.

On Sunday, Jun 20, 2004, at 17:56 US/Central, txbasic composed:

>

> ... To help other people at all times.

>

> Seems like some people have forgotten the oath.

>

> When I was 15 my cut his hand badly at a camp in west texas in the

> Mountains. (Camp Buffalo Trail Council I belvie was its name)

> They had an LVN and an EMT-P working the 1st aid station. They also

> had a list of all EMS/MD's/Nurses/Medical staff ect., that were

> attending camp that week, so if needed they had some sort of back up.

> My brother needed stiches, so they found an MD from Dumas, Tx who was

> the ER doc there, to come and look at my brother. With little

> supplies, which included a suture kit the EMT-P had, and some free

> pain Rx's that were samples, that he brought, he sutured up my

> brother's hand. I think there were about 10-15 in all. They doc did

> and awesome job. You can't even tell that there was ever anything

> wrong. I don't know what his name was, but he was short and had a

> brown " Goat-tee " . He was awesome, and I aplaud this camp in their

> great staff. Too bad this camp your speaking off has to be the

> exception, instead of the norm.

>                      - Txbasic, NREMT-I

>

> P.S. - Do the campers parents know of these things? I'm sure some of

> those kids parents are doc's, lawyers, and emt's alike... sure would

> be bad to have angry parents beating on the council doors wanting to

> know what was going on.

[Guest guest]

>

> sounds like Adam Weems. . .

Haha! There's a blast from the past for ya! Good times! Of course,

Adam would have put his lover in charge of the Health Officer.

Rob