Jump to content
RemedySpot.com

Re: PROM

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Manual.

 

Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

(work)

(fax)

To: " 'PTManager ' " <PTManager >

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:19 PM

Subject: PROM

 

Group:

Do you charge passive range of motion as 97110 Therapeutic Procedure or 97140

Manual Technique?

Thanks!

Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

Director of Rehabilitation Services

Passavant Area Hospital

ville, IL 62650

trevor.huffman@...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

I was going to respond TherEx 97110, however seeing this response has made me

rethink…

Perhaps I am over thinking this but doesn’t it depend on why you are doing the

PROM, and the skill required to perform the technique.

97110 is defined as therapeutic exercise to develop strength, endurance, range

of motion and flexibility. But it requires that the patient perform the

therapeutic exercises.

97140 is manual techniques (e.g mobilization/manipulation , manual lymphatic

drainage, manual traction. The Physical Therapist is performing the technique (

and this seems more highly skilled to me)

Passive ROM on a spastic muscle prior to a therapeutic training ( 79110?) does

not necessarily require the skill to do segmental mobilization ( 97140?). Both

are passive techniques, requiring different skills sets. But I would still have

a really hard time billing manual therapy for passive ROM ( which we teach to

family and is not typically considered a skilled technique)

So- I guess it is just really important to justify your choice of CPT with your

documentation.

Marcy Stalvey, PT, NCS

Edwin Shaw Rehabilitation Institute

Cuyahoga Falls, OH 44221

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Damon Whitfield

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:04 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: PROM

Manual.

Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

(work)

(fax)

From: Trevor Huffman

<trevor.huffman@...<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.\

com>>

To: " 'PTManager <mailto:%27PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>' "

<PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>>

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:19 PM

Subject: PROM

Group:

Do you charge passive range of motion as 97110 Therapeutic Procedure or 97140

Manual Technique?

Thanks!

Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

Director of Rehabilitation Services

Passavant Area Hospital

ville, IL 62650

trevor.huffman@...<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.c\

om>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Manual?!?! Can you justify that for me please?

M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

Carolinas Rehabilitation

Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

Charlotte/Concord, NC

> Manual.

>

> Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

> Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

> (work)

> (fax)

>

>

> To: " 'PTManager ' " <PTManager >

> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:19 PM

> Subject: PROM

>

>

> Group:

>

> Do you charge passive range of motion as 97110 Therapeutic Procedure or 97140

Manual Technique?

>

> Thanks!

>

> Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> Director of Rehabilitation Services

> Passavant Area Hospital

> ville, IL 62650

> trevor.huffman@...

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

I guess I was a little (or a lot) presumptuous

in my response. I usually don't do just PROM

without doing some other form of STM, joint mobs

or lymphatic drainage. So, just PROM an that's all?

I would not do that. Does that help?

Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

930 S. State St. Suite 10

(office)

(fax)

> Manual?!?! Can you justify that for me please?

>

> M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

> Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

> Carolinas Rehabilitation

> Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

> Charlotte/Concord, NC

>

>

>

> > Manual.

> >

> > Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

> > Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

> > (work)

> > (fax)

> >

> >

> > To: " 'PTManager ' " <PTManager >

> > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:19 PM

> > Subject: PROM

> >

> >

> > Group:

> >

> > Do you charge passive range of motion as 97110 Therapeutic Procedure or

97140 Manual Technique?

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> > Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> > Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> > Director of Rehabilitation Services

> > Passavant Area Hospital

> > ville, IL 62650

> > trevor.huffman@...

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

According to the Guide to Physical Therapy Practice the definition of manual

therapy is: “a continuum of skilled passive movements to the joints and or

related soft tissues that are applied at varying speeds and amplitudes,

including a small velocity and high amplitude therapeutic movement.â€

Per the definition, Manual Therapy does cover PROM if the clinician is

performing this treatment; however, if you are applying PROM to a patient using

a device like a BIODEX, I would code it as Ther Ex.

M. , DPT, CSCS

Owner/Physical Therapist

Discover Health & Wellness Services, LLC

P.

F.

brussell@...

www.discoverhealth-online.com

> Manual?!?! Can you justify that for me please?

>

> M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

> Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

> Carolinas Rehabilitation

> Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

> Charlotte/Concord, NC

>

>

>

> > Manual.

> >

> > Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

> > Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

> > (work)

> > (fax)

> >

> >

> > To: " 'PTManager ' " <PTManager >

> > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:19 PM

> > Subject: PROM

> >

> >

> > Group:

> >

> > Do you charge passive range of motion as 97110 Therapeutic Procedure or

97140 Manual Technique?

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> > Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> > Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> > Director of Rehabilitation Services

> > Passavant Area Hospital

> > ville, IL 62650

> > trevor.huffman@...

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Yes, that helps. I agree that PROM with some kind of soft tissue mobilization

would be manual therapy, if the arthrokinematic joint mobilization or soft

tissue mobilization was described as such in the note. Osteokinematic passive

motion alone? There are of course exceptions, but I'd have a hard time

ethically billing manual therapy for simple PROM as a rule.

M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

Carolinas Rehabilitation

Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

Charlotte/Concord, NC

> I guess I was a little (or a lot) presumptuous

> in my response. I usually don't do just PROM

> without doing some other form of STM, joint mobs

> or lymphatic drainage. So, just PROM an that's all?

> I would not do that. Does that help?

>

> Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

> Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

> 930 S. State St. Suite 10

> (office)

> (fax)

>

>

>

> > Manual?!?! Can you justify that for me please?

> >

> > M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

> > Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

> > Carolinas Rehabilitation

> > Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

> > Charlotte/Concord, NC

> >

> >

> >

> > > Manual.

> > >

> > > Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

> > > Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

> > > (work)

> > > (fax)

> > >

> > >

> > > To: " 'PTManager ' " <PTManager >

> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:19 PM

> > > Subject: PROM

> > >

> > >

> > > Group:

> > >

> > > Do you charge passive range of motion as 97110 Therapeutic Procedure or

97140 Manual Technique?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> > > Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> > > Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> > > Director of Rehabilitation Services

> > > Passavant Area Hospital

> > > ville, IL 62650

> > > trevor.huffman@...

> > >

> > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

I see your point , but disagree that it could be argued, in a court of law,

that PROM ---- a simple technique often taught to nonprofessional family members

--- constituted SKILLED intervention. I suppose it comes down to risk tolerance

in the event of audit or lawsuit.

That said, manual therapy is usually reimbursed at a lower rate (in no small

part because some clinicians want to say PROM = massage = HVLAT) than therex,

so I doubt anyone would truly care if they were being financially under billed.

M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

Carolinas Rehabilitation

Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

Charlotte/Concord, NC

On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:21 AM, " M. , DPT, CSCS "

wrote:

> According to the Guide to Physical Therapy Practice the definition of manual

therapy is: “a continuum of skilled passive movements to the joints and or

related soft tissues that are applied at varying speeds and amplitudes,

including a small velocity and high amplitude therapeutic movement.â€

> Per the definition, Manual Therapy does cover PROM if the clinician is

performing this treatment; however, if you are applying PROM to a patient using

a device like a BIODEX, I would code it as Ther Ex.

>

> M. , DPT, CSCS

> Owner/Physical Therapist

> Discover Health & Wellness Services, LLC

> P.

> F.

> brussell@...

> www.discoverhealth-online.com

>

>

>

> > Manual?!?! Can you justify that for me please?

> >

> > M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

> > Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

> > Carolinas Rehabilitation

> > Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

> > Charlotte/Concord, NC

> >

> >

> >

> > > Manual.

> > >

> > > Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

> > > Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

> > > (work)

> > > (fax)

> > >

> > >

> > > To: " 'PTManager ' " <PTManager >

> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:19 PM

> > > Subject: PROM

> > >

> > >

> > > Group:

> > >

> > > Do you charge passive range of motion as 97110 Therapeutic Procedure or

97140 Manual Technique?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> > > Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> > > Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> > > Director of Rehabilitation Services

> > > Passavant Area Hospital

> > > ville, IL 62650

> > > trevor.huffman@...

> > >

> > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

I am glad to see this amount of discussion. I thought it was pretty straight

forward until we started having these types of discussion in our department.

After having these discussions, I do not believe one answer is correct. I

believe it really depends on what technique you are using, what else you are

doing with the technique and what is your expected outcome of the technique. I

do believe that just PROM can be skilled in certain situations. If you don't

agree with this, ask an orthopedic surgeon that has a patient's capsular shift

in his shoulder be over stretched or a rotator cuff repair that turns into

frozen shoulder. I would not feel comfortable instructing this to the majority

of my patients or their families.

Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

Director of Rehabilitation Services

Passavant Area Hospital

ville, IL 62650

trevor.huffman@...

________________________________

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Ball

Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:25 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: PROM

I see your point , but disagree that it could be argued, in a court of law,

that PROM ---- a simple technique often taught to nonprofessional family members

--- constituted SKILLED intervention. I suppose it comes down to risk tolerance

in the event of audit or lawsuit.

That said, manual therapy is usually reimbursed at a lower rate (in no small

part because some clinicians want to say PROM = massage = HVLAT) than therex, so

I doubt anyone would truly care if they were being financially under billed.

M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

Carolinas Rehabilitation

Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

Charlotte/Concord, NC

On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:21 AM, " M. , DPT, CSCS "

<brussellpt@...<mailto:brussellpt%40gmail.com>> wrote:

> According to the Guide to Physical Therapy Practice the definition of manual

therapy is: " a continuum of skilled passive movements to the joints and or

related soft tissues that are applied at varying speeds and amplitudes,

including a small velocity and high amplitude therapeutic movement. "

> Per the definition, Manual Therapy does cover PROM if the clinician is

performing this treatment; however, if you are applying PROM to a patient using

a device like a BIODEX, I would code it as Ther Ex.

>

> M. , DPT, CSCS

> Owner/Physical Therapist

> Discover Health & Wellness Services, LLC

> P.

> F.

>

brussell@...<mailto:brussell%40discoverhealth-online.com>

> www.discoverhealth-online.com

>

> On Apr 24, 2012, at 7:27 PM, Ball

<drdrewpt@...<mailto:drdrewpt%40gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> > Manual?!?! Can you justify that for me please?

> >

> > M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

> > Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

> > Carolinas Rehabilitation

> > Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

> > Charlotte/Concord, NC

> >

> > On Apr 24, 2012, at 4:03 PM, Damon Whitfield

<damonptatc@...<mailto:damonptatc%40yahoo.com>> wrote:

> >

> > > Manual.

> > >

> > > Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

> > > Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

> > > (work)

> > > (fax)

> > >

> > > From: Trevor Huffman

<trevor.huffman@...<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.\

com>>

> > > To: " 'PTManager <mailto:%27PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>' "

<PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>>

> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:19 PM

> > > Subject: PROM

> > >

> > >

> > > Group:

> > >

> > > Do you charge passive range of motion as 97110 Therapeutic Procedure or

97140 Manual Technique?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> > > Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> > > Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> > > Director of Rehabilitation Services

> > > Passavant Area Hospital

> > > ville, IL 62650

> > >

trevor.huffman@...<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.c\

om>

> > >

> > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

I am glad to see this amount of discussion. I thought it was pretty straight

forward until we started having these types of discussion in our department.

After having these discussions, I do not believe one answer is correct. I

believe it really depends on what technique you are using, what else you are

doing with the technique and what is your expected outcome of the technique. I

do believe that just PROM can be skilled in certain situations. If you don't

agree with this, ask an orthopedic surgeon that has a patient's capsular shift

in his shoulder be over stretched or a rotator cuff repair that turns into

frozen shoulder. I would not feel comfortable instructing this to the majority

of my patients or their families.

Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

Director of Rehabilitation Services

Passavant Area Hospital

ville, IL 62650

trevor.huffman@...

________________________________

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Ball

Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:25 AM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: PROM

I see your point , but disagree that it could be argued, in a court of law,

that PROM ---- a simple technique often taught to nonprofessional family members

--- constituted SKILLED intervention. I suppose it comes down to risk tolerance

in the event of audit or lawsuit.

That said, manual therapy is usually reimbursed at a lower rate (in no small

part because some clinicians want to say PROM = massage = HVLAT) than therex, so

I doubt anyone would truly care if they were being financially under billed.

M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

Carolinas Rehabilitation

Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

Charlotte/Concord, NC

On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:21 AM, " M. , DPT, CSCS "

<brussellpt@...<mailto:brussellpt%40gmail.com>> wrote:

> According to the Guide to Physical Therapy Practice the definition of manual

therapy is: " a continuum of skilled passive movements to the joints and or

related soft tissues that are applied at varying speeds and amplitudes,

including a small velocity and high amplitude therapeutic movement. "

> Per the definition, Manual Therapy does cover PROM if the clinician is

performing this treatment; however, if you are applying PROM to a patient using

a device like a BIODEX, I would code it as Ther Ex.

>

> M. , DPT, CSCS

> Owner/Physical Therapist

> Discover Health & Wellness Services, LLC

> P.

> F.

>

brussell@...<mailto:brussell%40discoverhealth-online.com>

> www.discoverhealth-online.com

>

> On Apr 24, 2012, at 7:27 PM, Ball

<drdrewpt@...<mailto:drdrewpt%40gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> > Manual?!?! Can you justify that for me please?

> >

> > M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

> > Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

> > Carolinas Rehabilitation

> > Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

> > Charlotte/Concord, NC

> >

> > On Apr 24, 2012, at 4:03 PM, Damon Whitfield

<damonptatc@...<mailto:damonptatc%40yahoo.com>> wrote:

> >

> > > Manual.

> > >

> > > Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

> > > Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

> > > (work)

> > > (fax)

> > >

> > > From: Trevor Huffman

<trevor.huffman@...<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.\

com>>

> > > To: " 'PTManager <mailto:%27PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>' "

<PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>>

> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:19 PM

> > > Subject: PROM

> > >

> > >

> > > Group:

> > >

> > > Do you charge passive range of motion as 97110 Therapeutic Procedure or

97140 Manual Technique?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> > > Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> > > Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> > > Director of Rehabilitation Services

> > > Passavant Area Hospital

> > > ville, IL 62650

> > >

trevor.huffman@...<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.c\

om>

> > >

> > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Well stated Trevor. Excellent conversation. In our clinic we bill PROM

as therapeutic exercise per the CPT code description. We are typically

doing PROM for post-op shoulder surgeries. I think in this particular

situation it is a skilled service but, it certainly can evolve into an

unskilled service that can be taught to the patient and/or the

caretaker/family member. My 2 cents!

Have a terrific day!

Chad Yoakam, MS, PT

Livingston HealthCare

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On

Behalf Of Trevor Huffman

Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:49 AM

To: 'PTManager '

Subject: RE: PROM

I am glad to see this amount of discussion. I thought it was pretty

straight forward until we started having these types of discussion in

our department. After having these discussions, I do not believe one

answer is correct. I believe it really depends on what technique you are

using, what else you are doing with the technique and what is your

expected outcome of the technique. I do believe that just PROM can be

skilled in certain situations. If you don't agree with this, ask an

orthopedic surgeon that has a patient's capsular shift in his shoulder

be over stretched or a rotator cuff repair that turns into frozen

shoulder. I would not feel comfortable instructing this to the majority

of my patients or their families.

Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

Director of Rehabilitation Services

Passavant Area Hospital

ville, IL 62650

trevor.huffman@...

<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.com>

________________________________

From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of Ball

Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:25 AM

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: PROM

I see your point , but disagree that it could be argued, in a court

of law, that PROM ---- a simple technique often taught to

nonprofessional family members --- constituted SKILLED intervention. I

suppose it comes down to risk tolerance in the event of audit or

lawsuit.

That said, manual therapy is usually reimbursed at a lower rate (in no

small part because some clinicians want to say PROM = massage = HVLAT)

than therex, so I doubt anyone would truly care if they were being

financially under billed.

M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

Carolinas Rehabilitation

Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

Charlotte/Concord, NC

On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:21 AM, " M. , DPT, CSCS "

<brussellpt@... <mailto:brussellpt%40gmail.com>

<mailto:brussellpt%40gmail.com>> wrote:

> According to the Guide to Physical Therapy Practice the definition of

manual therapy is: " a continuum of skilled passive movements to the

joints and or related soft tissues that are applied at varying speeds

and amplitudes, including a small velocity and high amplitude

therapeutic movement. "

> Per the definition, Manual Therapy does cover PROM if the clinician is

performing this treatment; however, if you are applying PROM to a

patient using a device like a BIODEX, I would code it as Ther Ex.

>

> M. , DPT, CSCS

> Owner/Physical Therapist

> Discover Health & Wellness Services, LLC

> P.

> F.

> brussell@...

<mailto:brussell%40discoverhealth-online.com>

<mailto:brussell%40discoverhealth-online.com>

> www.discoverhealth-online.com

>

> On Apr 24, 2012, at 7:27 PM, Ball <drdrewpt@...

<mailto:drdrewpt%40gmail.com> <mailto:drdrewpt%40gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> > Manual?!?! Can you justify that for me please?

> >

> > M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

> > Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

> > Carolinas Rehabilitation

> > Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

> > Charlotte/Concord, NC

> >

> > On Apr 24, 2012, at 4:03 PM, Damon Whitfield <damonptatc@...

<mailto:damonptatc%40yahoo.com> <mailto:damonptatc%40yahoo.com>> wrote:

> >

> > > Manual.

> > >

> > > Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

> > > Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

> > > (work)

> > > (fax)

> > >

> > > From: Trevor Huffman <trevor.huffman@...

<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.com>

<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.com>>

> > > To: " 'PTManager

<mailto:%27PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:%27PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>' " <PTManager

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>>

> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:19 PM

> > > Subject: PROM

> > >

> > >

> > > Group:

> > >

> > > Do you charge passive range of motion as 97110 Therapeutic

Procedure or 97140 Manual Technique?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> > > Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> > > Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> > > Director of Rehabilitation Services

> > > Passavant Area Hospital

> > > ville, IL 62650

> > > trevor.huffman@...

<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.com>

<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.com>

> > >

> > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Well stated Trevor. Excellent conversation. In our clinic we bill PROM

as therapeutic exercise per the CPT code description. We are typically

doing PROM for post-op shoulder surgeries. I think in this particular

situation it is a skilled service but, it certainly can evolve into an

unskilled service that can be taught to the patient and/or the

caretaker/family member. My 2 cents!

Have a terrific day!

Chad Yoakam, MS, PT

Livingston HealthCare

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On

Behalf Of Trevor Huffman

Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:49 AM

To: 'PTManager '

Subject: RE: PROM

I am glad to see this amount of discussion. I thought it was pretty

straight forward until we started having these types of discussion in

our department. After having these discussions, I do not believe one

answer is correct. I believe it really depends on what technique you are

using, what else you are doing with the technique and what is your

expected outcome of the technique. I do believe that just PROM can be

skilled in certain situations. If you don't agree with this, ask an

orthopedic surgeon that has a patient's capsular shift in his shoulder

be over stretched or a rotator cuff repair that turns into frozen

shoulder. I would not feel comfortable instructing this to the majority

of my patients or their families.

Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

Director of Rehabilitation Services

Passavant Area Hospital

ville, IL 62650

trevor.huffman@...

<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.com>

________________________________

From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of Ball

Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:25 AM

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: PROM

I see your point , but disagree that it could be argued, in a court

of law, that PROM ---- a simple technique often taught to

nonprofessional family members --- constituted SKILLED intervention. I

suppose it comes down to risk tolerance in the event of audit or

lawsuit.

That said, manual therapy is usually reimbursed at a lower rate (in no

small part because some clinicians want to say PROM = massage = HVLAT)

than therex, so I doubt anyone would truly care if they were being

financially under billed.

M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

Carolinas Rehabilitation

Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

Charlotte/Concord, NC

On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:21 AM, " M. , DPT, CSCS "

<brussellpt@... <mailto:brussellpt%40gmail.com>

<mailto:brussellpt%40gmail.com>> wrote:

> According to the Guide to Physical Therapy Practice the definition of

manual therapy is: " a continuum of skilled passive movements to the

joints and or related soft tissues that are applied at varying speeds

and amplitudes, including a small velocity and high amplitude

therapeutic movement. "

> Per the definition, Manual Therapy does cover PROM if the clinician is

performing this treatment; however, if you are applying PROM to a

patient using a device like a BIODEX, I would code it as Ther Ex.

>

> M. , DPT, CSCS

> Owner/Physical Therapist

> Discover Health & Wellness Services, LLC

> P.

> F.

> brussell@...

<mailto:brussell%40discoverhealth-online.com>

<mailto:brussell%40discoverhealth-online.com>

> www.discoverhealth-online.com

>

> On Apr 24, 2012, at 7:27 PM, Ball <drdrewpt@...

<mailto:drdrewpt%40gmail.com> <mailto:drdrewpt%40gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> > Manual?!?! Can you justify that for me please?

> >

> > M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhD

> > Northeast Rehabilitation Gateway

> > Carolinas Rehabilitation

> > Orthopedic PT Residency Faculty

> > Charlotte/Concord, NC

> >

> > On Apr 24, 2012, at 4:03 PM, Damon Whitfield <damonptatc@...

<mailto:damonptatc%40yahoo.com> <mailto:damonptatc%40yahoo.com>> wrote:

> >

> > > Manual.

> > >

> > > Damon C. Whitfield PT, ATC

> > > Tim Bondy Physical Therapy

> > > (work)

> > > (fax)

> > >

> > > From: Trevor Huffman <trevor.huffman@...

<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.com>

<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.com>>

> > > To: " 'PTManager

<mailto:%27PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:%27PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>' " <PTManager

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>>

> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:19 PM

> > > Subject: PROM

> > >

> > >

> > > Group:

> > >

> > > Do you charge passive range of motion as 97110 Therapeutic

Procedure or 97140 Manual Technique?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> > > Trevor Huffman P.T., M.S., S.C.S., A.T.,C.

> > > Board Certified Sports Physical Therapist

> > > Director of Rehabilitation Services

> > > Passavant Area Hospital

> > > ville, IL 62650

> > > trevor.huffman@...

<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.com>

<mailto:trevor.huffman%40passavanthospital.com>

> > >

> > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...