Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Know what you mean Avril, and I'm a naturalized American. I've never watched C-Span before this weekend and I can't explain how strange it felt to be standing in my kitchen looking in on the people responsible for making all the decisions that I normally take for granted are done with appropriate care and attention. I realized today our Senators are just people in nice suits. Phil Gramm made me so mad I was shouting at the telly (not like me at all). I suggested to my boss that we should move somewhere else, Canada maybe, but then he reminded me that they still think asbestos is okay in Canada. I was able to watch at home this morning because my children weren't well and were off school. My daughter Kate was counting the " Nos " and the " Ayes " with me as they were announced. I gave her a thumbnail sketch of the political process we were watching, but honestly couldn't tell her that I had much faith in it. M. Bothwell Waters & Kraus, LLP 200 Oceangate, Suite 520 Long Beach, California 90802 Tel: (562) 436-8833 Fax: (562) 590-7296 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 I had Kylie watching with me too and praying with me......and I needed to have her give me a big long hug when all was said in done. Normal childhood....... . Re: [ ] Please forgive me > > Know what you mean Avril, and I'm a naturalized American. I've never > watched C-Span before this weekend and I can't explain how strange it felt > to be standing in my kitchen looking in on the people responsible for > making all the decisions that I normally take for granted are done with > appropriate care and attention. I realized today our Senators are just > people in nice suits. Phil Gramm made me so mad I was shouting at the > telly (not like me at all). I suggested to my boss that we should move > somewhere else, Canada maybe, but then he reminded me that they still think > asbestos is okay in Canada. > > I was able to watch at home this morning because my children weren't well > and were off school. My daughter Kate was counting the " Nos " and the > " Ayes " with me as they were announced. I gave her a thumbnail sketch of > the political process we were watching, but honestly couldn't tell her that > I had much faith in it. > > > M. Bothwell > Waters & Kraus, LLP > 200 Oceangate, Suite 520 > Long Beach, California 90802 > Tel: (562) 436-8833 > Fax: (562) 590-7296 > > > > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 I was sitting with my 13 year old son watching the proceedings this morning as part of his history lesson. (I homeschool him because of his problems in school.) After listening for a while he said, " Mom, I heard some people can die from getting the smallpox vaccination. " I replied, " Yes, they know some percentage of the population will die or get extremely sick from it, especially those with weak immune systems that can't fight the live virus in the vaccine. " After some thought he asks " Does that mean you might die if you get it? " . (I am currently chelating myself and am sick rather often.) I had to reply, " Maybe, at least it would make me pretty sick I imagine. I'll do anything I can to not get it unless I think there's a great risk of me getting smallpox itself. " Of course the next question is " Would I die if I got the vaccination? " . I told him " probably not since you don't get sick too often now, your immune system seems strong. " So we watched the vote and were dismayed at the outcome. Then he asks " So when are they going to start vaccinating everyone? " . And it when on of course with me trying to reassure him I would do everything in my power to not get vaccinated and to try to get well in the mean time. Some history lesson... not what they teach in the textbooks. Re: [ ] Please forgive me > > Know what you mean Avril, and I'm a naturalized American. I've never > watched C-Span before this weekend and I can't explain how strange it felt > to be standing in my kitchen looking in on the people responsible for > making all the decisions that I normally take for granted are done with > appropriate care and attention. I realized today our Senators are just > people in nice suits. Phil Gramm made me so mad I was shouting at the > telly (not like me at all). I suggested to my boss that we should move > somewhere else, Canada maybe, but then he reminded me that they still think > asbestos is okay in Canada. > > I was able to watch at home this morning because my children weren't well > and were off school. My daughter Kate was counting the " Nos " and the > " Ayes " with me as they were announced. I gave her a thumbnail sketch of > the political process we were watching, but honestly couldn't tell her that > I had much faith in it. > > > M. Bothwell > Waters & Kraus, LLP > 200 Oceangate, Suite 520 > Long Beach, California 90802 > Tel: (562) 436-8833 > Fax: (562) 590-7296 > > > > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 To Avril, You should be ashamed to be " ashamed to be an American " ! This is still the best country on the face of the Earth. If you resided in any third world country, you'd be shot for expressing your opinion! Thank God for the U.S.A.! ....And the fact that we can voice our discontent!!! Jack Rawlings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 To Jack Rawlings: I am happy for you, but every day I damn again that damned day when I decided to come to this " best country on the face of the Earth " . My baby would not be given those vaccines in a " third world country " ... Margaret --- In @y..., " & Jack Rawlings " <jamaraw@a...> wrote: > To Avril, > > You should be ashamed to be " ashamed to be an American " ! This is still the best country on the face of the Earth. If you resided in any third world country, you'd be shot for expressing your opinion! > > Thank God for the U.S.A.! ....And the fact that we can voice our discontent!!! > > Jack Rawlings > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 It is a small condolence to be able to say " I hate the way you are screwing my child " without fear of reprisal. I think it's appalling that money has bought off our children's right to compensation for a disabling injury. After today's vote I couldn't even cry. I felt so empty and let down by the people elected to represent ALL of the people in this country that there was nothing left. I have decided to stop saying Jenna has autism. From now on I'm just saying she has mercury poisoning from childhood vaccines. People already think I'm outrageous, so what's the difference? At least it will get the word out, even if it is one person at a time. Valeri, mom to: Jenna (4 1/2 mercury poisoning from childhood vaccines) (3 1/2 NT) LeeLee (1 1/2 NT) Re: [ ] Please forgive me To Avril, You should be ashamed to be " ashamed to be an American " ! This is still the best country on the face of the Earth. If you resided in any third world country, you'd be shot for expressing your opinion! Thank God for the U.S.A.! ....And the fact that we can voice our discontent!!! Jack Rawlings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 At 08:59 PM 11/19/2002 -0500, you wrote: >To Avril, > >You should be ashamed to be " ashamed to be an American " ! This is still >the best country on the face of the Earth. If you resided in any third >world country, you'd be shot for expressing your opinion! > >Thank God for the U.S.A.! ....And the fact that we can voice our discontent!!! Not for long, I gather.... I lived in St. s, Scotland for three years and have often thought of moving back there. I've also considered heading to Canada for the safety of my son rather than have him face a mandatory smallpox vaccine. Only the fact that my extended family are in the States keeps me here. Americans too often act as if they are the only ones who count or have free speech. We are all on this planet together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 > I am happy for you, but every day I damn again that damned day when I > decided to come to this " best country on the face of the Earth " . My > baby would not be given those vaccines in a " third world country " ... You would be surprised ) Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 " It is a small condolence to be able to say " I hate the way you are screwing my child " without fear of reprisal. " Some US parents do face reprisals when they refuse vaccines for their children - complaints of child abuse, threats to cut off benefits. " ...I have decided to stop saying Jenna has autism. From now on I'm just saying she has mercury poisoning from childhood vaccines. People already think I'm outrageous, so what's the difference? At least it will get the word out, even if it is one person at a time. " Great idea! I have been saying that my son has a neuro-immune disorder caused by vaccinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 At 10:06 PM 11/19/2002 -0500, you wrote: >At 08:59 PM 11/19/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >To Avril, > > > >You should be ashamed to be " ashamed to be an American " ! This is still > >the best country on the face of the Earth. If you resided in any third > >world country, you'd be shot for expressing your opinion! > > > >Thank God for the U.S.A.! ....And the fact that we can voice our > discontent!!! > >Not for long, I gather.... > >I lived in St. s, Scotland for three years and have often thought of >moving back there. I've also considered heading to Canada for the safety >of my son rather than have him face a mandatory smallpox vaccine. Only the >fact that my extended family are in the States keeps me here. Americans >too often act as if they are the only ones who count or have free >speech. We are all on this planet together. forgot to sign my name, All the best, Avril, mom to Gerry (2/19/97) Boycott Eli Lilly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Valentina, what do you mean? I know, I am from Russia. No Hib, no HepB, no MMR, only one vaccine at a time, no vacines if the child is ill. Sure, all vaccines are harmful, but I do not think any 3d world country gives the kids more than 20 vaccines in first 2 years, like the USA ( " the country of best healthcare " )do... Margaret > > I am happy for you, but every day I damn again that damned day when I > > decided to come to this " best country on the face of the Earth " . My > > baby would not be given those vaccines in a " third world country " ... > > You would be surprised ) > > Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 > Valentina, what do you mean? I know, I am from Russia. No Hib, no > HepB, no MMR, only one vaccine at a time, no vacines if the child is > ill. Sure, all vaccines are harmful, but I do not think any 3d world > country gives the kids more than 20 vaccines in first 2 years, like > the USA ( " the country of best healthcare " )do... Well... I'm from Romania ) My kid had 15 vaccines in his first 1 1/2 years. The MMR is not required in Romania, but my kid had TWO! One at 6 months, and one at 1 1/2 years. In his first 3 HOURS of life he got the HepB vacc. At 2 mos. he got 3 vaccines. And every time he got 2 or 3 vaccines. Ok, now I have to add... At least in my country, even under communism dictatorship, NOBODY, EVER forced us to vaccinate anybody. It was pushed, yes, offered, campaigned as the best thing you can do, but never forced. The truth is that they couldn't care less if you vaccinate or not. If you say " Yes, I am vaccinated " they believe you. You don't have to prove it. Btw, I don't know if there is any other country that *requires* vaccination prior to visiting it. Is there? Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Avril, today I did feel ashamed of this country. I'm not the only one! I've heard from a few people today that said if it comes to smallpox or staying in this country, they will leave. This is not something that was said in haste. I know of some on this list from the UK, Germany and Canada, where vaccines are not mandated. I would very much like to hear their opinions. > >To Avril, > > > >You should be ashamed to be " ashamed to be an American " ! This is still > >the best country on the face of the Earth. If you resided in any third > >world country, you'd be shot for expressing your opinion! > > > >Thank God for the U.S.A.! ....And the fact that we can voice our discontent!!! > > Not for long, I gather.... > > I lived in St. s, Scotland for three years and have often thought of > moving back there. I've also considered heading to Canada for the safety > of my son rather than have him face a mandatory smallpox vaccine. Only the > fact that my extended family are in the States keeps me here. Americans > too often act as if they are the only ones who count or have free > speech. We are all on this planet together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Hi... I am from Indonesia... we are giving more than 20 vaccines in the child' first two years.... we are following USA.... my second son in the spectrum....lost all his speech right after MMR, and has a very high level of mercury toxicity. Best regards, Debbie Sianturi [ ] Re: Re: Please forgive me > > Valentina, what do you mean? I know, I am from Russia. No Hib, no > > HepB, no MMR, only one vaccine at a time, no vacines if the child is > > ill. Sure, all vaccines are harmful, but I do not think any 3d world > > country gives the kids more than 20 vaccines in first 2 years, like > > the USA ( " the country of best healthcare " )do... > > Well... I'm from Romania ) > My kid had 15 vaccines in his first 1 1/2 years. > The MMR is not required in Romania, but my kid had TWO! One at 6 months, and > one at 1 1/2 years. > In his first 3 HOURS of life he got the HepB vacc. > At 2 mos. he got 3 vaccines. > And every time he got 2 or 3 vaccines. > > Ok, now I have to add... > At least in my country, even under communism dictatorship, NOBODY, EVER > forced us to vaccinate anybody. It was pushed, yes, offered, campaigned as > the best thing you can do, but never forced. > The truth is that they couldn't care less if you vaccinate or not. If you say > " Yes, I am vaccinated " they believe you. You don't have to prove it. > > Btw, I don't know if there is any other country that *requires* vaccination > prior to visiting it. Is there? > > Valentina > > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 > You should be ashamed to be " ashamed to be an American " ! This is still the best country on the face of the Earth. If you resided in any third world country, you'd be shot for expressing your opinion! > > Thank God for the U.S.A.! ....And the fact that we can voice our discontent!!! This is the kind of attitude that makes America look so " great " . And you wonder why the world has " something against you " . This is EXACTLY the kind of attitude that everybody around has and your government pushes and washes your brain with. This is exactly the kind of attitude I was afraid of these days - I preffered to keep my mouth shut as best as I could, because I knew some good American would throw something like this on me (well, it wasn't for me, but I feel). I guess America, the land of the free... where people cannot really talk, and cannot really be free... is still the best, no matter what, only because it would look bad to say other wise. You should be ashamed to speak like this! And btw, in a third world country, mine for example, you are really free to say things like this. And incredibly, nobody will tell you that you should be ashamed for having an opinion like this. Maybe you should get out of your perfect country and try to see how life really is in other places, before you talk. I am starting to feel really sick of this country of yours. Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 I would like to second that. My family came to the US as refugees. We made a choice to leave Russia and settle in America so I have no particular reason to be very fond of my old country and today I am proud to be an American, but whatever Russia's faults, an autism epidemic is not one of them. I became deeply disillusioned in doctors when my US-born kids were first diagnosed, and now I see such a sad irony in the fact that the country with probably the best healthcare in the world allows to destroy its children. Natasha > > > I am happy for you, but every day I damn again that damned day > when I > > > decided to come to this " best country on the face of the Earth " . > My > > > baby would not be given those vaccines in a " third world > country " ... > > > > You would be surprised ) > > > > Valentina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Another GREAT IDEA! Dana Re: [ ] Please forgive me To Avril, You should be ashamed to be " ashamed to be an American " ! This is still the best country on the face of the Earth. If you resided in any third world country, you'd be shot for expressing your opinion! Thank God for the U.S.A.! ....And the fact that we can voice our discontent!!! Jack Rawlings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Not every American is narrow-minded enough to realize that this country has made some serious mistakes. We have stuck our nose where it doesn't belong before. We have also done alot of good things. Just because the people that are elected are serving DOES NOT mean that we all voted for them. Just look back at the 2000 presidential race. The man that is in office did not win the popular vote. We need to come together and put aside our political differences. This is about THE CHILDREN, NOT some FATCAT or well-meaning but ill-informed politician. Dana Re: [ ] Please forgive me > You should be ashamed to be " ashamed to be an American " ! This is still the best country on the face of the Earth. If you resided in any third world country, you'd be shot for expressing your opinion! > > Thank God for the U.S.A.! ....And the fact that we can voice our discontent!!! This is the kind of attitude that makes America look so " great " . And you wonder why the world has " something against you " . This is EXACTLY the kind of attitude that everybody around has and your government pushes and washes your brain with. This is exactly the kind of attitude I was afraid of these days - I preffered to keep my mouth shut as best as I could, because I knew some good American would throw something like this on me (well, it wasn't for me, but I feel). I guess America, the land of the free... where people cannot really talk, and cannot really be free... is still the best, no matter what, only because it would look bad to say other wise. You should be ashamed to speak like this! And btw, in a third world country, mine for example, you are really free to say things like this. And incredibly, nobody will tell you that you should be ashamed for having an opinion like this. Maybe you should get out of your perfect country and try to see how life really is in other places, before you talk. I am starting to feel really sick of this country of yours. Valentina ======================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Well here in UK, our Governments often copy example of USA - the six in one vacc is coming here, remember the complete cock up over BSE? Jusr heard yesterday of lady with cancer, routine visit from Dr - gave her Flu jab on the MOnday......she was Dead by Friday MAndi in UK > Avril, today I did feel ashamed of this country. I'm not the only one! > I've heard from a few people today that said if it comes to smallpox > or staying in this country, they will leave. This is not something > that was said in haste. > > I know of some on this list from the UK, Germany and Canada, where > vaccines are not mandated. I would very much like to hear their opinions. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Yep, the US is greatest country in the world - lets all COPY them.......... I was working in Genral medical practice when they brought in the MMR - hush your concerns they said, its been used in USA for years, perfectly safe! Mandi in UK > Hi... I am from Indonesia... we are giving more than 20 vaccines in the > child' first two years.... we are following USA.... my second son in the > spectrum....lost all his speech right after MMR, and has a very high level > of mercury toxicity. > Best regards, > > Debbie Sianturi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 One of the Kirkman guys mentioned at an Autism forum in Oregon City that Indonesia has a major autism explosion because they tripled the thimerosal in some vaccines fearing lack of refrigeration. SFrom: Natasha Bogdanov [mailto: nataleo@...] @...: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 04:26:19 -0000Subject: [ ] Re: Please forgive meI would like to second that. My family came to the US as refugees. We made a choice to leave Russia and settle in America so I have no particular reason to be very fond of my old country and today I am proud to be an American, but whatever Russia's faults, an autism epidemic is not one of them. I became deeply disillusioned in doctors when my US-born kids were first diagnosed, and now I see such a sad irony in the fact that the country with probably the best healthcare in the world allows to destroy its children. Natasha & gt; & gt; & gt; I am happy for you, but every day I damn again that damned day & gt; when I & gt; & gt; & gt; decided to come to this " best country on the face of the Earth " . & gt; My & gt; & gt; & gt; baby would not be given those vaccines in a " third world & gt; country " ... & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; You would be surprised ) & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Valentina=======================================================Statements posted on this list are for information only, and should NOT be taken as medical advice. If you need medical advice, you should seek it from those who are authorized to give medical advice: doctors. Post message: @...: -subscribe@...: -unsubscribe@... owner: -owner@... URL: Answers to common questions: /files/Mercury-Autism%20FAQ Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2002 Report Share Posted November 20, 2002 Jack, This is a great country because we have the right to organize and dissent, but if politicians can be bought and paid for, when neither party offers a clear choice, and fear of terrorism can be used to get votes for legislation that can damage your child, how good is the right? I object to your characterization about third world countries. It's just not true, and represents a jingoistic view of the U.S. In truth, in many democratic third world countries, they are freer to express their views on corporations than we are here, because they have anti-corporate parties for whom to vote in their parliamentary systems. We tend to assume we are the most democratic, but even objective assessments by political scientist puts us behind Costa Rica in openness of elections, access to the ballot, and other categories. This jingoism is part of the problem in our country, it's part of an effort to say, hey, there's nothing wrong with this system, so stop complaining. We need alot more complaining, thinking--and organizing. We really don't have more than 2 corporate parties, with only slight difference on most issues in respect to ordinary people. Rose --- In @y..., " & Jack Rawlings " <jamaraw@a...> wrote: > To Avril, > > You should be ashamed to be " ashamed to be an American " ! This is still the best country on the face of the Earth. If you resided in any third world country, you'd be shot for expressing your opinion! > > Thank God for the U.S.A.! ....And the fact that we can voice our discontent!!! > > Jack Rawlings > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2002 Report Share Posted November 20, 2002 In a message dated 11/19/2002 11:27:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, nataleo@... writes: > I would like to second that. My family came to the US as refugees. We > made a choice to leave Russia and settle in America so I have no > particular reason to be very fond of my old country and today I am > proud to be an American, but whatever Russia's faults, an autism > epidemic is not one of them. I became deeply disillusioned in doctors > when my US-born kids were first diagnosed, and now I see such a sad > irony in the fact that the country with probably the best healthcare > in the world allows to destroy its children. > It saddens me that I brought a child from a foreign country to be injured by this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2002 Report Share Posted November 20, 2002 When ever I am asked what is wrong with my son, I say " Vaccine induced autism " or " Deficient Immune System thanks to Childhood innoculations " Autism remains in the title for the layman..-Shari Fwd: [ ] Please forgive me In a message dated 20/11/2002 02:53:00 GMT Standard Time, valeri@... writes: > I have decided to stop saying Jenna has autism. From now on I'm just saying > she has mercury poisoning from childhood vaccines. People already think > I'm > outrageous, so what's the difference? At least it will get the word out, > even if it is one person at a time. > Me too.......and I printed poster for the car - Vaccine damaged child on board Mx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2002 Report Share Posted November 20, 2002 Thank you, Rose. You have truly expressed what dh and I have discussed many times. I do love America, but the political naivete gets to me. If I hadn't lived in another country for a while, I'd probably be very jingoistic. I wish Americans would take off their tinted glasses and get a good look at themselves. BTW, I really loved 's new film because I think it might be starting a process of soul searching which is much needed. With appreciation, Avril, mom to Gerry (2/19/97) Boycott Eli Lilly! At 08:37 AM 11/20/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Jack, >This is a great country because we have the right to organize and >dissent, but if politicians can be bought and paid for, when neither >party offers a clear choice, and fear of terrorism can be used to get >votes for legislation that can damage your child, how good is the >right? > >I object to your characterization about third world countries. It's >just not true, and represents a jingoistic view of the U.S. In truth, >in many democratic third world countries, they are freer to express >their views on corporations than we are here, because they have >anti-corporate parties for whom to vote in their parliamentary >systems. We tend to assume we are the most democratic, but even >objective assessments by political scientist puts us behind Costa Rica >in openness of elections, access to the ballot, and other categories. > > This jingoism is part of the problem in our country, it's part of >an effort to say, hey, there's nothing wrong with this system, so stop >complaining. We need alot more complaining, thinking--and organizing. >We really don't have more than 2 corporate parties, with only slight >difference on most issues in respect to ordinary people. > >Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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