Guest guest Posted May 9, 2010 Report Share Posted May 9, 2010 > > > > I am on another forum with women who apparently had happy childhoods > > and ideal moms. > > One time recently I mentioned some of the difficulty I am facing as my > > nada's dementia worsens and she pulls more stunts and has moved into a > > nursing home leaving me to deal with all the legalities and financial > > aspects of this. > > One of the women told me to just love her, yada yada. > > Anyhoo, the following came into my inbox this morning and I just had > > to share it. > > It gives me the creeps! And I see it as a perfect example of why it is > > so difficult to explain to normals about the trouble you have with > > your parent. > > Here it is: > > > > Your Mother is Always with You > > She's the whisper of the leaves as you walk down the street. > > She's the smell of bleach in your freshly laundered socks. > > She's the cool hand on your brow when you're not well. > > Your mother lives inside your laughter, > > She's crystallized in every teardrop... > > She's the place you come from, your first home... > > She's the map you follow with every step you take. > > She's your first love and your first heartbreak... > > And nothing can seperate you. > > Not time, not space, not even death will ever seperate you from your > > mother. > > You carry her inside of you. > > > > > > Sent from my blueberry. > > > that is so funny, I wouldn't know where to begin to write something like that...you guys are really talented. I really can't stand it when people in 'wonderful childhood' denial (I guess that's a sign how jaded I am that I always think of it as denial) shame me for not feeling how they do. In 2001 this woman told me I should go home for thanksgiving. I am still mad at her about it...she knew absolutely NOTHING about my childhood, how dare she say something like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 Its a form of thoughtless cruelty for people to say such things when they have no idea of the background or circumstances. For example, you'd never try to just jolly a friend or acquaintance into dating if she were recently widowed; that would be so flippant and devastating to someone in the depths of grief. Apparently even individuals who have mentally healthy parents have difficulty with them from time to time, so, to thoughtlessly remark " Oh, you should just kiss and make up with your parents " when your parents have been negligent and rejecting, or sadistically cruel and malicious your whole life, well, its just blind thoughtlessness, stupidity, or ignorance. Somehow people " get it " that a given individual doesn't want to have a relationship with her father who repeatedly molested and raped her, but they do not " get it " when an individual doesn't want to have a relationship with a mother who repeatedly brutalized her emotionally and/or physically.. People don't " get " that individuals can be " emotionally raped " or " soul-murdered " by an abusive parent. -Annie PS: Its good that you are able to have a " How DARE you?! " reaction; some people are so beaten down that they accept abuse and cruelty as a " normal " part of their existence. Its good that you can defend your psyche that way and haven't had the " How DARE you?! " beaten out of you. > I really can't stand it when people in 'wonderful childhood' denial (I guess that's a sign how jaded I am that I always think of it as denial) shame me for not feeling how they do. In 2001 this woman told me I should go home for thanksgiving. I am still mad at her about it...she knew absolutely NOTHING about my childhood, how dare she say something like that... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 Lynette, That is a wonderful interpretation of the poem =P I'm loving the last line " You carry her inside you. (Like excrement.) " I promised myself, my therapist, and my grandmother (in that order) that once I had a summer job and housing I would give my Nada a quick debriefing on the NC situation--just a simple, " I'm safe, I need space, please stop contacting me. " Of course, I like to daydream about sending her the angry letters in my journal, or the psych hospital reports about how disruptive she was to treatment, or the news articles about the abusive psych hospital she had me transferred to when the first hospital encouraged boundaries (I was 15 and had no legal agency), or send her a DBT skills book, or this poem =D I don't (and won't) make a bad situation worse by instigating my Nada or being a smarta$$ because I don't want to be as passive-aggressive (or just plain aggressive) as she is. I'll keep my letter short and to the point, but hey, a girl can dream... -Frances > > > > > > I am on another forum with women who apparently had happy childhoods > > > and ideal moms. > > > One time recently I mentioned some of the difficulty I am facing as my > > > nada's dementia worsens and she pulls more stunts and has moved into a > > > nursing home leaving me to deal with all the legalities and financial > > > aspects of this. > > > One of the women told me to just love her, yada yada. > > > Anyhoo, the following came into my inbox this morning and I just had > > > to share it. > > > It gives me the creeps! And I see it as a perfect example of why it is > > > so difficult to explain to normals about the trouble you have with > > > your parent. > > > Here it is: > > > > > > Your Mother is Always with You > > > She's the whisper of the leaves as you walk down the street. > > > She's the smell of bleach in your freshly laundered socks. > > > She's the cool hand on your brow when you're not well. > > > Your mother lives inside your laughter, > > > She's crystallized in every teardrop... > > > She's the place you come from, your first home... > > > She's the map you follow with every step you take. > > > She's your first love and your first heartbreak... > > > And nothing can seperate you. > > > Not time, not space, not even death will ever seperate you from your > > > mother. > > > You carry her inside of you. > > > > > > > > > Sent from my blueberry. > > > > > > that is so funny, I wouldn't know where to begin to write something like that...you guys are really talented. > > I really can't stand it when people in 'wonderful childhood' denial (I guess that's a sign how jaded I am that I always think of it as denial) shame me for not feeling how they do. In 2001 this woman told me I should go home for thanksgiving. I am still mad at her about it...she knew absolutely NOTHING about my childhood, how dare she say something like that... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 My reaction to this poem is a steely " Pfffffffft " This 'poem' was sooooo written by a NPD nada to her KO daughter as a means of narcisisstic supply and possibly mind control. Just my two cents. How can you tell i'm tainted n jaded? LOL > Your Mother is Always with You > She's the whisper of the leaves as you walk down the street. > She's the smell of bleach in your freshly laundered socks. > She's the cool hand on your brow when you're not well. > Your mother lives inside your laughter, > She's crystallized in every teardrop... > She's the place you come from, your first home... > She's the map you follow with every step you take. > She's your first love and your first heartbreak... > And nothing can seperate you. > Not time, not space, not even death will ever seperate you from your > mother. > You carry her inside of you. > > > Sent from my blueberry. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 I have to agree, I think this was the best laugh i had all day. -lara > > > > I am on another forum with women who apparently had happy childhoods > > and ideal moms. > > One time recently I mentioned some of the difficulty I am facing as my > > nada's dementia worsens and she pulls more stunts and has moved into a > > nursing home leaving me to deal with all the legalities and financial > > aspects of this. > > One of the women told me to just love her, yada yada. > > Anyhoo, the following came into my inbox this morning and I just had > > to share it. > > It gives me the creeps! And I see it as a perfect example of why it is > > so difficult to explain to normals about the trouble you have with > > your parent. > > Here it is: > > > > Your Mother is Always with You > > She's the whisper of the leaves as you walk down the street. > > She's the smell of bleach in your freshly laundered socks. > > She's the cool hand on your brow when you're not well. > > Your mother lives inside your laughter, > > She's crystallized in every teardrop... > > She's the place you come from, your first home... > > She's the map you follow with every step you take. > > She's your first love and your first heartbreak... > > And nothing can seperate you. > > Not time, not space, not even death will ever seperate you from your > > mother. > > You carry her inside of you. > > > > > > Sent from my blueberry. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 I know! That first line - " your mother is always with you " - makes me want to run over and peek through the blinds to see if she's parked in my driveway, blocking the car and preventing my escape! Aieeeee! (Luckily I have an alternative route - out the back door, over the fence...) > > > > > > I am on another forum with women who apparently had happy childhoods > > > and ideal moms. > > > One time recently I mentioned some of the difficulty I am facing as my > > > nada's dementia worsens and she pulls more stunts and has moved into a > > > nursing home leaving me to deal with all the legalities and financial > > > aspects of this. > > > One of the women told me to just love her, yada yada. > > > Anyhoo, the following came into my inbox this morning and I just had > > > to share it. > > > It gives me the creeps! And I see it as a perfect example of why it is > > > so difficult to explain to normals about the trouble you have with > > > your parent. > > > Here it is: > > > > > > Your Mother is Always with You > > > She's the whisper of the leaves as you walk down the street. > > > She's the smell of bleach in your freshly laundered socks. > > > She's the cool hand on your brow when you're not well. > > > Your mother lives inside your laughter, > > > She's crystallized in every teardrop... > > > She's the place you come from, your first home... > > > She's the map you follow with every step you take. > > > She's your first love and your first heartbreak... > > > And nothing can seperate you. > > > Not time, not space, not even death will ever seperate you from your > > > mother. > > > You carry her inside of you. > > > > > > > > > Sent from my blueberry. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 *barf* I couldn't even finish the poem. Sorry. I tried. LOL! There is this woman on my facebook, she's very stepfordish. The perfect mother, wife, woman. She looks great, does all these awesome things for her kids, and the school, and works out, runs marathons....makes me want to vomit because she's happy happy happy! Reminds me of her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 Hahahahahahahahahahahah.........I have tears streaming down my face now because I am laughing so hard, Doug. I have that as my aol welcome - Hello Clarisse when I sign on and byesy bye when I sign off and now I'll never quite hear it the same way......lolol In a message dated 5/10/2010 11:28:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, doug883@... writes: Yea, I read Your mother is always with you and heard Hannibel Lechter s voice saying Hello Clarisse! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 Yea, I read Your mother is always with you and heard Hannibel Lechter s voice saying Hello Clarisse! Doug > > > > > > > > I am on another forum with women who apparently had happy childhoods > > > > and ideal moms. > > > > One time recently I mentioned some of the difficulty I am facing as my > > > > nada's dementia worsens and she pulls more stunts and has moved into a > > > > nursing home leaving me to deal with all the legalities and financial > > > > aspects of this. > > > > One of the women told me to just love her, yada yada. > > > > Anyhoo, the following came into my inbox this morning and I just had > > > > to share it. > > > > It gives me the creeps! And I see it as a perfect example of why it is > > > > so difficult to explain to normals about the trouble you have with > > > > your parent. > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > > > Your Mother is Always with You > > > > She's the whisper of the leaves as you walk down the street. > > > > She's the smell of bleach in your freshly laundered socks. > > > > She's the cool hand on your brow when you're not well. > > > > Your mother lives inside your laughter, > > > > She's crystallized in every teardrop... > > > > She's the place you come from, your first home... > > > > She's the map you follow with every step you take. > > > > She's your first love and your first heartbreak... > > > > And nothing can seperate you. > > > > Not time, not space, not even death will ever seperate you from your > > > > mother. > > > > You carry her inside of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my blueberry. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 In regards to the " Just love her " ... When I first started posting here that is what someone on the message list told me. I just ignored it and figured they just did not have the same experience as me but it was really invalidating. I'm glad I stuck around because I do really feel validated here. > > > > > > I am on another forum with women who apparently had happy childhoods > > > and ideal moms. > > > One time recently I mentioned some of the difficulty I am facing as my > > > nada's dementia worsens and she pulls more stunts and has moved into a > > > nursing home leaving me to deal with all the legalities and financial > > > aspects of this. > > > One of the women told me to just love her, yada yada. > > > Anyhoo, the following came into my inbox this morning and I just had > > > to share it. > > > It gives me the creeps! And I see it as a perfect example of why it is > > > so difficult to explain to normals about the trouble you have with > > > your parent. > > > Here it is: > > > > > > Your Mother is Always with You > > > She's the whisper of the leaves as you walk down the street. > > > She's the smell of bleach in your freshly laundered socks. > > > She's the cool hand on your brow when you're not well. > > > Your mother lives inside your laughter, > > > She's crystallized in every teardrop... > > > She's the place you come from, your first home... > > > She's the map you follow with every step you take. > > > She's your first love and your first heartbreak... > > > And nothing can seperate you. > > > Not time, not space, not even death will ever seperate you from your > > > mother. > > > You carry her inside of you. > > > > > > > > > Sent from my blueberry. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 Doug - Gee, I thought I was the only one who'd ever considered strapping her mother to a handtruck when she started acting crazy... The phone messages that begin, " this is your mother " have much the same spine-tingling effect on me that " Hello, Clarisse " had. Brrrrr. > > > > > > > > > > I am on another forum with women who apparently had happy > childhoods > > > > > and ideal moms. > > > > > One time recently I mentioned some of the difficulty I am facing > as my > > > > > nada's dementia worsens and she pulls more stunts and has moved > into a > > > > > nursing home leaving me to deal with all the legalities and > financial > > > > > aspects of this. > > > > > One of the women told me to just love her, yada yada. > > > > > Anyhoo, the following came into my inbox this morning and I just > had > > > > > to share it. > > > > > It gives me the creeps! And I see it as a perfect example of why > it is > > > > > so difficult to explain to normals about the trouble you have > with > > > > > your parent. > > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > > > > > Your Mother is Always with You > > > > > She's the whisper of the leaves as you walk down the street. > > > > > She's the smell of bleach in your freshly laundered socks. > > > > > She's the cool hand on your brow when you're not well. > > > > > Your mother lives inside your laughter, > > > > > She's crystallized in every teardrop... > > > > > She's the place you come from, your first home... > > > > > She's the map you follow with every step you take. > > > > > She's your first love and your first heartbreak... > > > > > And nothing can seperate you. > > > > > Not time, not space, not even death will ever seperate you from > your > > > > > mother. > > > > > You carry her inside of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my blueberry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 Carol,I'm glad too you decided to stick around -- > > > > > > > > I am on another forum with women who apparently had happy childhoods > > > > and ideal moms. > > > > One time recently I mentioned some of the difficulty I am facing as my > > > > nada's dementia worsens and she pulls more stunts and has moved into a > > > > nursing home leaving me to deal with all the legalities and financial > > > > aspects of this. > > > > One of the women told me to just love her, yada yada. > > > > Anyhoo, the following came into my inbox this morning and I just had > > > > to share it. > > > > It gives me the creeps! And I see it as a perfect example of why it is > > > > so difficult to explain to normals about the trouble you have with > > > > your parent. > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > > > Your Mother is Always with You > > > > She's the whisper of the leaves as you walk down the street. > > > > She's the smell of bleach in your freshly laundered socks. > > > > She's the cool hand on your brow when you're not well. > > > > Your mother lives inside your laughter, > > > > She's crystallized in every teardrop... > > > > She's the place you come from, your first home... > > > > She's the map you follow with every step you take. > > > > She's your first love and your first heartbreak... > > > > And nothing can seperate you. > > > > Not time, not space, not even death will ever seperate you from your > > > > mother. > > > > You carry her inside of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my blueberry. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Thanks and thank you for sharing your story. It takes great courage and some day I hope to be able to share some of my darker ones. In fact, , I wanted to ask if you knew how one could know if they had dissociated when a child. I'm asking because there are periods of time where I havn't much recollection. > > > > > > > > > > I am on another forum with women who apparently had happy childhoods > > > > > and ideal moms. > > > > > One time recently I mentioned some of the difficulty I am facing as my > > > > > nada's dementia worsens and she pulls more stunts and has moved into a > > > > > nursing home leaving me to deal with all the legalities and financial > > > > > aspects of this. > > > > > One of the women told me to just love her, yada yada. > > > > > Anyhoo, the following came into my inbox this morning and I just had > > > > > to share it. > > > > > It gives me the creeps! And I see it as a perfect example of why it is > > > > > so difficult to explain to normals about the trouble you have with > > > > > your parent. > > > > > Here it is: > > > > > > > > > > Your Mother is Always with You > > > > > She's the whisper of the leaves as you walk down the street. > > > > > She's the smell of bleach in your freshly laundered socks. > > > > > She's the cool hand on your brow when you're not well. > > > > > Your mother lives inside your laughter, > > > > > She's crystallized in every teardrop... > > > > > She's the place you come from, your first home... > > > > > She's the map you follow with every step you take. > > > > > She's your first love and your first heartbreak... > > > > > And nothing can seperate you. > > > > > Not time, not space, not even death will ever seperate you from your > > > > > mother. > > > > > You carry her inside of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my blueberry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Carol,I will try to answer your question based on what I know. For people who had childhoods in which there was ongoing trauma/abuse (and having a personality disordered parent certainly fits that definition--pervasive emotional abuse for example is trauma) it is common for there to be large gaps in sequential memory or not much recollection for whole periods of time.This is a form of traumatic amnesia that is related to dissociation.During a traumatic episode,our mind can zone out and shut down from processing the incoming stimuli (dissociate)--therefore not fully recording it.Like for example when someone is in a car accident and they don't remember the moment of impact--and they never do.When the trauma is ongoing,it is possible for the mind to not permanently record stimuli that was too unbearable to process when the trauma was happening,resulting in a blank gap of time.Many survivors of child abuse have little recollection for whole periods of time,although they know that abuse had occured during those periods.Even some adult survivors of the Nazi concentration camps,for example,don't remember most of their experience in the camp--they know that they were there,but many of the details are a blank.It was too overwhelming for their minds to retain in detail--traumatic amnesia can serve the function of preserving our core sanity by blocking out an onslaught of stimuli that would compromise our ability to function at all. Traumatic memory also tends to be fragmented which is also related to dissociation--for example you might remember a raised fist but not recall the actual blow,even if you have a photo of yourself from that same day with a black eye.Or the memory can be dissociated from your emotional awareness: you might recall the assault in detail but have no emotion about it,or memory of physical pain.Another type of traumatic dissociation is feeling extreme terror but having no specific memory to attach to it.Like,for example,the scent of mothballs induces severe dread but the exact reason for this is a blank.Or you might have a few very vivid images that seem to not to have any coherent narrative or sequential sense. Dissociated traumatic memories can be ones you have repressed from conscious awareness--either the event itself or how you felt when it happened--and they play back in the form of nightmares,fragmented flashbacks or being triggered into a feeling state that is out of context or extreme for the situation that triggered you.Other dissociated traumatic memories are erased from conscious awareness because your mind didn't fully record it--like remembering seeing the car in the next lane veer out of control but never remembering the moment of impact.The difference of course between child abuse and a car accident is that nobody will dispute that the car accident really happened or tell you that since all you recall is the moment when the other car veered across the lane but not the accident itself that you must have imagined it.But this kind of fragmented/dissociated recall or total lack of recall is how traumatic memory works. Yet another form of dissociation that is very common with trauma is derealization,where you perceive the events as if they are unreal,like watching a movie or like you're seeing it happen from a distance or through a fog.These kinds of memories can almost seem like you dreamed them up because they have such an unreal or surreal quality.And/or you can depersonalize during the event and it will then feel or seem as if it didn't happen to *you* or like you just weren't there or quite there. Or a child does what I did,which is dissociate into separate personalities/parts.This one is complicated...some people aren't even aware at all that they've done this/some people have partial awareness/some people have what is called " co-consciousness " with their parts or achieve this over time...usually when a part is acting for the person,they will not remember that period of time whether it's minutes hours days or weeks.Having a part " out front " for weeks is pretty extreme--generally people with Dissociative Identity Disorder lose time for a few hours or more rarely a few days.It's not as dramatic in most cases as what is portrayed in movies like Sybil--and it isn't something that just resolves on its own.Like for me,as an adult,I wasn't dissociating as parts to the extreme that I had had to as a child but I still lost moments of time or knew when a part was out in front and I knew who they were/what their names were (most of them) and could speak with them.I was co-conscious with most of them.I knew something wasn't right about being like that (and I definitely noticed that I was losing time) even though my dissociation with this generally only lasted for minutes and under big stress a couple of hours but that was rare.I went into therapy which is helping alot.*If* as an adult you still experience gaps of lost time,that could possibly be an indication of DID,but that doesn't sound like what you're talking about here.To help clarify the difference between memory gaps as traumatic memory dissociation and the dissociation of DID,I have no memory of about three months of fifth grade--but what I *do* remember is when *I* came back,the exact moment.During a movie in class and I realized that I had no idea why we were watching that movie or how we'd gotten there or whatever.I knew something weird had happened.I noticed that there were leaves on the trees outside yet the last thing I'd remembered was that it was winter.I went to look at the calendar and it was April.I *knew* at the time that there was something seriously wrong--and I remember that moment of coming back to myself and I also remembered what was happening before I went away.I had other experiences like this in childhood,just not for that long.I could also " hear " my parts talking (inside my head) and found things they'd written in my diary that I had no memory of writing myself/weren't things I would have written.And as an adult I had memories of losing time in childhood as specific periods/moments and I knew either generally or precisely why my parts had gone up front for me.I mean,I can mostly pinpoint reasons for the loss of time. Finally,there is the opposite of amnesia,which is hypermnesia--a detailed,intense recall of events.With traumatic memory,you can have both.Like you might remember one instance from your childhood super vividly--with context,dialogue,sight,sound,even smell--but that hyper vivid instance is surrounded by a blank of amnesia for other events,even similar ones.Like,you could have hypermnesia for the beginning of a traumatic event and total amnesia for what happened afterward.Or hypermnesia for the ending and amnesia for the beginning.So,again,although the memory is vivid it can seem nonsensical.Or really bizarre when it seems likely that similar events had to have occured but you have no recall of them. Hypermnesia is apparently more common in children's traumatic memories--and happens more often when the event is an extreme life threatening occurence or when the child is witnessing someone else being fatally or very seriously injured.Some people are more prone to hypermnesia than amnesia and vice versa.I am one of the people who is prone to hypermnesia--I have *too many* vivid,detailed traumatic memories.I have amnesia for certain events from the DID but more hypermnesia than amnesia.And derealization/depersonalization to accompany the hypermnesia because,again,dissociation is the mind's way of protecting us from the full onslaught onto our consciousness of what is too much to bear.The DID also served the same function,for me,of providing some relief. So,that was a long post! I hope something in there was helpful to you.If you have any other questions (and don't mind another long explanation),feel free to ask. > > Thanks and thank you for sharing your story. It takes great courage and some day I hope to be able to share some of my darker ones. In fact, , I wanted to ask if you knew how one could know if they had dissociated when a child. I'm asking because there are periods of time where I havn't much recollection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge on this subject. I really appreciate it. I've had this nagging feeling/question for some time and it's difficult because I have no one in my family that will be completely honest to help me remember. I realize now that it is quite possible that I just will never remember as I perhaps never " recorded " the memory in the first place. I wish I knew what is " normal " to remember for most children. I mean do most children recall there elementary school friend's names or teachers for instance? I have different gaps of time but do remember some things. Like for instance, my 3rd grade year, my family moved in the middle of the school year. I don't remember the teacher or the children but I remember my father being very angry, very often at my mother. I remember him removing all his clothes, making trip after trip to the car, and telling my sister, " Come on sissy come with me, we're leaving them here. " I remember endless tirades of hollering, seeing my mom knocked down, hiding in my room, crying all night when he left, being afraid he wouldn't come back, hoping he wouldn't come back, or wishing he would shut up but I don't remember the seemingly ordinary. > > > > Thanks and thank you for sharing your story. It takes great courage and some day I hope to be able to share some of my darker ones. In fact, , I wanted to ask if you knew how one could know if they had dissociated when a child. I'm asking because there are periods of time where I havn't much recollection. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 Hi Carol, I think your not remembering the teacher or the children in third grade makes sense in the context of what else was going on in your life at the time.How memory functions--esp. for children--is something that is still being fleshed out by researchers.There doesn't seem to actually be any one template for memory and with traumatic memory it's even more complicated. I do remember my teacher's names and the other students--all except my nursery school teacher.I cannot remember that woman's name at all or even what she looked like.Yet I remember other people from that time period.I don't think that I never recorded her,just that I have blocked her out because she is related to some serious abuse at the time with nada that was affecting/destroying my self image/self concept.I have some memories from nursery school but in the spot where the teacher should be,there is a blank space. I know someone who has very few memories before his teens.He doesn't remember teacher's names or much of his grammar school days.What he does remember is his mother sometimes beating him--that stands out because apparently that is what he needed to keep in mind and to try to process,not the other ordinariness of everything else.It seems to me that having some amnesia for ordinary occurences in childhood while remembering the bad stuff that was happening at the time would be 'normal' for a child who had to deal with overwhelming stimuli,even if intermittant.For a child who didn't have that going on,it would simply be much easier to recall things like a teacher or classmates because that would just flow in the memory. The threat of abandonment by your father and seeing him hurt your mother would have been huge to a third grader,so I think it's no wonder that is what you recall,plus having conflicting feelings about it--which sound pretty 'normal' psychologically to me--I mean,to me it's no wonder you didn't have much psychic energy left to devote to inscribing your third grade school days into your memory bank. > > Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge on this subject. I really appreciate it. I've had this nagging feeling/question for some time and it's difficult because I have no one in my family that will be completely honest to help me remember. I realize now that it is quite possible that I just will never remember as I perhaps never " recorded " the memory in the first place. I wish I knew what is " normal " to remember for most children. I mean do most children recall there elementary school friend's names or teachers for instance? I have different gaps of time but do remember some things. Like for instance, my 3rd grade year, my family moved in the middle of the school year. I don't remember the teacher or the children but I remember my father being very angry, very often at my mother. I remember him removing all his clothes, making trip after trip to the car, and telling my sister, " Come on sissy come with me, we're leaving them here. " I remember endless tirades of hollering, seeing my mom knocked down, hiding in my room, crying all night when he left, being afraid he wouldn't come back, hoping he wouldn't come back, or wishing he would shut up but I don't remember the seemingly ordinary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 Hi , Thank you for responding. It's strange how we have such selective memory but it seems you had some real insight into why we may block things out. I have huge gaps of time but there are some random good things too. Like for instance, I remember that my kidnergarten teacher hung my finger painting up several weeks in a row on the " special " board and that I was allowed to " paint " when other kids had to nap. I also remember a fifth grade teacher teaching me to sing. I remember what she looked like but not her name. I remember absolutely nothing about 3rd or 4th grade, except that in 3rd grade, when we moved, they were teaching Russion.(How's that for the cold war time period?) Sadly, I think I craved and remember these little kindnesses because of my own home life and I am thankful for a few angels along the way. I wonder if EMDR could be helpful to uncover some of the memories, good or bad, and help us to further heal? I remember a lot of abuse and neglect, yelling and screaming. The horrible memories outweigh the ordinary. I just feel like why isn't there more ordinary? I'm not sure I want to remember but at the same time I crave to be whole. I always have this feeling that I am " leaving " something out that will piece it altogether for me. Regards Carol > > > > Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge on this subject. I really appreciate it. I've had this nagging feeling/question for some time and it's difficult because I have no one in my family that will be completely honest to help me remember. I realize now that it is quite possible that I just will never remember as I perhaps never " recorded " the memory in the first place. I wish I knew what is " normal " to remember for most children. I mean do most children recall there elementary school friend's names or teachers for instance? I have different gaps of time but do remember some things. Like for instance, my 3rd grade year, my family moved in the middle of the school year. I don't remember the teacher or the children but I remember my father being very angry, very often at my mother. I remember him removing all his clothes, making trip after trip to the car, and telling my sister, " Come on sissy come with me, we're leaving them here. " I remember endless tirades of hollering, seeing my mom knocked down, hiding in my room, crying all night when he left, being afraid he wouldn't come back, hoping he wouldn't come back, or wishing he would shut up but I don't remember the seemingly ordinary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 in my experience which is purely anecdotal and not based on scientific research as such.. i believe all of my experiences have been 'recorded', in my body (so called 'body memories') and brain and memory (once i was old enuf to have the speech and ability to process verbal memories..) etc.  but because the bulk of my abuse occurred when i was preverbal, most of my 'recovered' memories are 'body memories'.. but that said, retrieving and being able to access these memories is a different story.. for years i had no idea of my experiences except i knew i had a deep, abiding hatred for my nada (my abuser) that even my beloved father's wishes could not erase.. i had repressed them and been terrorized by her to be too afraid to explore this hatred i had for her. but once i went nc and began to explore myself and get help, therapy, 12-step groups, i began to access my memories. and even tho they are 'body memories' they never lied to me and were substantiated by physical proof.. (see also alice millar's 'the body never lies' a very worthwhile book tho a bit over the top at times i think.).. and when i am strong enuf i will begin to feel certain feelings related to the trauma even to this day, including feelings of grief i never could process before, but am getting in touch with and dealing with now. enuf, before i write a book.  hope this is helpful and thanks for reading this and letting me share.blessings, ann Subject: Re: I find this creepy To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Thursday, May 13, 2010, 12:45 AM  Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge on this subject. I really appreciate it. I've had this nagging feeling/question for some time and it's difficult because I have no one in my family that will be completely honest to help me remember. I realize now that it is quite possible that I just will never remember as I perhaps never " recorded " the memory in the first place. I wish I knew what is " normal " to remember for most children. I mean do most children recall there elementary school friend's names or teachers for instance? I have different gaps of time but do remember some things. Like for instance, my 3rd grade year, my family moved in the middle of the school year. I don't remember the teacher or the children but I remember my father being very angry, very often at my mother. I remember him removing all his clothes, making trip after trip to the car, and telling my sister, " Come on sissy come with me, we're leaving them here. " I remember endless tirades of hollering, seeing my mom knocked down, hiding in my room, crying all night when he left, being afraid he wouldn't come back, hoping he wouldn't come back, or wishing he would shut up but I don't remember the seemingly ordinary. > > > > Thanks and thank you for sharing your story. It takes great courage and some day I hope to be able to share some of my darker ones. In fact, , I wanted to ask if you knew how one could know if they had dissociated when a child. I'm asking because there are periods of time where I havn't much recollection. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 I think we have trouble remembering what's ordinary because we didn't need to process it to survive. Tina > > > > > > Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge on this subject. I really appreciate it. I've had this nagging feeling/question for some time and it's difficult because I have no one in my family that will be completely honest to help me remember. I realize now that it is quite possible that I just will never remember as I perhaps never " recorded " the memory in the first place. I wish I knew what is " normal " to remember for most children. I mean do most children recall there elementary school friend's names or teachers for instance? I have different gaps of time but do remember some things. Like for instance, my 3rd grade year, my family moved in the middle of the school year. I don't remember the teacher or the children but I remember my father being very angry, very often at my mother. I remember him removing all his clothes, making trip after trip to the car, and telling my sister, " Come on sissy come with me, we're leaving them here. " I remember endless tirades of hollering, seeing my mom knocked down, hiding in my room, crying all night when he left, being afraid he wouldn't come back, hoping he wouldn't come back, or wishing he would shut up but I don't remember the seemingly ordinary. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 Ann I have felt a lot better since going LC with my FOO but I do feel like I may be processing more of the grief. Thanks for your comments. > > > > > > > > Thanks and thank you for sharing your story. It takes great courage and some day I hope to be able to share some of my darker ones. In fact, , I wanted to ask if you knew how one could know if they had dissociated when a child. I'm asking because there are periods of time where I havn't much recollection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 Carol,thank you for sharing this--it got me to thinking about how memory serves to shore up healthy ego functioning along with simple self preservation.It's really interesting to me the good things you remember--like the wonderful affirmation for your own healthy ego with your kindergarten teacher's display of your finger painting and your special exclusive privilege to paint.And the being taught to sing: something productive and creative and positive,like instruction for your spirit.And then what you do remember about third grade--being taught Russian during the cold war!! Good lord--that's like teaching you to take care of yourself in the event of an invasion yet also instilling fear in you at the same time. I think it's normal for us to remember others helping us to feel special as children--I think everyone does because we needed that.KOs more than the average person but I think everyone remembers those kinds of moments.I didn't mention this in the other posts but I had a ballet teacher who went out of her way to praise me and be kind to me.Nada was sending me to that class in a t shirt and leggings (and stocking feet!) like a boy while all the other girls had real ballet costumes with fluffy tutus and ballet slippers.The ballet teacher gave me a real ballet costume--the works and all in *pink*--and slippers...which is about the time nada suddenly stopped taking me to that class and also disappeared the costume.I remember the teacher being so nice and her having me stand up at the front to demonstrate positions (that she encouraged me as if I had real talent)--but--I cannot remember her name either or what she looked like AT ALL.Yet I clearly remember the library story hour lady from the same time in detail,including her name and appearance--because there was no threat there of nada somehow using her as a weapon against me.She weaponized my nursery school teacher too which is why I think I have a blank space for her...I don't know if this will resonate for for you but maybe if you had allowed yourself to really take in whatever normalcy and reassurance your third grade teacher might have had to offer you/or the same for just the dailiness of being in that classroom--and then because of what was going on at home,you then lost that--it might have been too much for you to process. I'm going to be doing EMDR later in therapy.I still have some other issues to work on before we do that,but if anything comes up I'll write about it here Perhaps EMDR could be helpful to you with processing the bad stuff until it's not as big and then as your mind is more settled and therefore open to the rest of your experience,doing EMDR might help you to relax enough to recall the more ordinary things. All of the more ordinary things I remember (like playing the piano with my grandmother or us making taffy together or ice cream sundaes) are images of temporary relative safety--but for a long time while I was dealing directly with the bad memories I forgot that any of that had ever been.I know what you mean about feeling like you're leaving something out that would piece it all together--that is frustrating--but at least for me my memories of ordinariness are also " covering memories " for a much sadder reality that was more common for me,like the mirage of an oasis that wasn't really there,so I resisted the pain of knowing that for a while. > > Hi , > Thank you for responding. It's strange how we have such selective memory but it seems you had some real insight into why we may block things out. I have huge gaps of time but there are some random good things too. Like for instance, I remember that my kidnergarten teacher hung my finger painting up several weeks in a row on the " special " board and that I was allowed to " paint " when other kids had to nap. I also remember a fifth grade teacher teaching me to sing. I remember what she looked like but not her name. I remember absolutely nothing about 3rd or 4th grade, except that in 3rd grade, when we moved, they were teaching Russion.(How's that for the cold war time period?) Sadly, I think I craved and remember these little kindnesses because of my own home life and I am thankful for a few angels along the way. I wonder if EMDR could be helpful to uncover some of the memories, good or bad, and help us to further heal? I remember a lot of abuse and neglect, yelling and screaming. The horrible memories outweigh the ordinary. I just feel like why isn't there more ordinary? I'm not sure I want to remember but at the same time I crave to be whole. I always have this feeling that I am " leaving " something out that will piece it altogether for me. > Regards > Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 Ann,what you say makes alot of sense since our first ego,in infancy,is body ego.I find,personally,that my fuller access to remembering and experiencing the emotional pain/agony of later abuse tends to tie directly into even earlier wounding of my body ego in infancy.That is,often when I emotionally recall later periods of abuse what I get at first is some kind of body memory,like an intense headache recalling times when I went hungry--which is so overpowering,I *know* it is a truth of my own experience that my body is expressing.It's like my body ego is calling out to be healed because that is the genesis of my trauma.And right on the heels of that are feelings of overwhelming terror and grief,feelings that got stuck right where they were in infancy (and that I re-experienced at the same stuck intensity every time I was abused later)--the difference for me now is that I *can* think it through; I do now have the capacity to process it...but it took me a long time to realize that and oddly,for me,having my body ego sort of backing up my emotional perceptions with body memory grounds me more in the *validity* of my remembering... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 Yes, isn't it strange about the Russian? Funny, it's one of the few times I remember my Fada complaining about my curriculum. This area that we had moved to was extremely liberal. In fact, the Jr. High was one of the first open classroom settings in it's day. I think the teaching of the Russian was more about understanding as opposed to preparing for invasion. I just remember being lost, after all, it was the middle of the school year and I was what eight years old? I think it was also the year that Pres. Kennedy was killed. I may have to research why they were teaching Russian. Perhaps you are right though as they were teaching us to duck and cover too. lol the human spirit really does insist on surviving doesn't it? It's almost as though the little child will hold onto any little good that comes it way to retain it's spirit. Course there is the saying that God never gives us more than we can handle. I always thought that was bull pooey as otherwise there wouldn't be a need for straight jackets......... just saying. Thank you for all your insights. It's really helping me to start thinking about some of these things. > > > > Hi , > > Thank you for responding. It's strange how we have such selective memory but it seems you had some real insight into why we may block things out. I have huge gaps of time but there are some random good things too. Like for instance, I remember that my kidnergarten teacher hung my finger painting up several weeks in a row on the " special " board and that I was allowed to " paint " when other kids had to nap. I also remember a fifth grade teacher teaching me to sing. I remember what she looked like but not her name. I remember absolutely nothing about 3rd or 4th grade, except that in 3rd grade, when we moved, they were teaching Russion.(How's that for the cold war time period?) Sadly, I think I craved and remember these little kindnesses because of my own home life and I am thankful for a few angels along the way. I wonder if EMDR could be helpful to uncover some of the memories, good or bad, and help us to further heal? I remember a lot of abuse and neglect, yelling and screaming. The horrible memories outweigh the ordinary. I just feel like why isn't there more ordinary? I'm not sure I want to remember but at the same time I crave to be whole. I always have this feeling that I am " leaving " something out that will piece it altogether for me. > > Regards > > Carol > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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