Gaslighting

May 9, 2010

Hi ,

Reading your story. I don't cry often but I am now. I currently

feel a limb rending rage towards the people who did this to you. I wish I

could have been there to stop it and protect you. I wish I could offer you

something that would make you feel better.

On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 5:32 AM, christine.depizan <

christine.depizan@...> wrote:

>

> Hi ,

>

> Thank you for your understanding response...And before I sidetrack myself

> again: you mentioned meeting some woman in CA whose story helped you--I'd

> love to hear it if you'd like to share.I don't recall you talking about that

> before.

>

> I had a look at the Women in Power website and read the three

> articles...That's something--predator energy-- I've been familiar with since

> I was very young.It made sense to me.I wish to hell that every single female

> elementary school teacher in the nation had to attend the initiation weekend

> until she effing GOT it in order to become certified.I'm not kidding,I think

> that would truly help them to do their jobs.

>

> That was one of the issues that was coming up for me last weekend,my rage

> at my second grade teacher.I know that she did this unwittingly,but her

> failure to report my disclosure of abuse had severe negative repercussions

> for the rest of my life.She had POWER to save me and she laughed at me

> instead.Because what I was saying to her was something she needed to

> instantly deny.I don't tell many people that I was gang raped for three

> years.But so far,the reaction from the people I have told this to is always

> some form of shutting down/needing to shut it out...and that triggers me

> right back to that day in that classroom with that dipshit in second

> grade.The only one who actually listened was another sex abuse survivor (of

> incest,which to me is worse than what I went through)--and she ended up

> later on betraying me.So I didn't mean to sound accusatory in my post to you

> personally or to anyone in general.My experience with this has just been

> very bitter.

>

> I am still REALLY angry with that one teacher in particular.Not just for

> failing to report,but also because she emotionally tortured me.I had her in

> both first and second grade.Since there *was* a mandated reporter law in

> effect at that time,I've considered taking her to court.Not for financial

> compensation but to let her know what she did and what that did to me--and

> if she did that to anyone else,for them to join me for a day of justice for

> us.Then I learned that in the state of NJ,failing to report child abuse is a

> disorderly persons offense and a fine of fifty dollars.That's it.The

> destruction of most of my life (so far) is worth fifty fucking dollars.Even

> if a child dies.The life of a child in the state of NJ is worth fifty

> dollars.

>

> Unless you hire a lawyer...I'm still considering a civil suit.I am not

> psychologically prepared for that right now--but my main objective in

> bringing a suit against her now is to help change NJ's mandated reporter

> law,to have it actually mean something,with real penalities for failure to

> report.Of course if I do that I will also include the principal of that

> school for what happened later and if possible the school district itself

> (again,to make the case big enough to hopefully get a better law in

> place).Even there,what happened to me isn't quite sensational enough to get

> a law changed.They like it better when the kid dies.

>

> I think what I read on the Women in Power website is true: children *do*

> die because some ass soul isn't in touch with their inner predator--and that

> ass soul isn't just the perp.

>

> I know that I have it in me to really hurt someone,if I choose.I know that

> I don't access the fullness of my own power (and sometimes this is simply

> because I am weary from all the trauma I've had and don't always want to be

> BOTHERED)--but I do have access to my inner predator and because I know

> that,I mainly choose harmlessness.If I see someone else getting hurt,I will

> step up.But most of the time,at least to me,it doesn't seem worth the effort

> to nuke someone.I can't change the world or most people's minds,so I just

> let them live as they are.There is a saying in Darija: They are the cost of

> their own lives...I know that website isn't about nuking people but more

> about gaining mastery over your shadow sides,did I understand that right?

> But I'm in touch with my inner bitch--I don't really doubt my own goodness

> or want to prove to myself that I'm not bad.I know that I can be very very

> bad and that is a choice--I feel in control of that choice.The self loathing

> I mentioned is more like a feedback loop from a period of severe trauma that

> gets replayed at times--it is from *being* a piece of human garbage as far

> as everyone else in my life was concerned.I can remember at six thinking

> that: I am nothing but garbage,like something that gets tossed to the curb,a

> thing that belongs on the rubbish heap.It's a feeling,not a belief--not what

> I believe I really am,but how I was made to feel.I'm not worried at all that

> I'm like my abusers--first of all,I'm not stupid like them(because I think

> you have to be pretty stupid to be THAT destructive)--second of all,I'm not

> immoral like them--and although my rage could take me to some very dark

> places,I consciously do not choose that.It's just that from birth I was

> treated like a worthless piece of sh*t and that feeling overtakes me at

> times.If I wasn't able to consciously think it through,it would be more than

> a shadow lashing out--I would *be* that shadow...and I'd probably be in

> prison.

>

> It's great that you volunteered your time as you did and that you also had

> healing for yourself from your participation.Feeling healed within a group

> of women is actually beyond *my* comprehension! Really,my mind goes blank at

> this.Unfortunately I've had bad experiences in groups of women (feminist

> groups,survivor of sexual abuse groups)--I do not feel safe with women.I

> can't imagine not being made to pay somehow for expecting other women to get

> it.But I'm glad it was a positive experience for you.I think maybe (although

> I don't want it to be this way) some of my damage with women is permanent.

>

> There's some ancient Greek play,I forget which one although it might have

> been by Aristophanes? where a seven girl old girl is raped on a bed by an

> adult man while a group of women standing around the bed

> applaud.Basically,that is how I feel about what happened to me: that the

> adult women around me as a child applauded the rapists by doing nothing.The

> lack of support and the rejection and even derision from women when I needed

> help is in many ways even more damaging than the abuse itself.Or,I'm not

> sure which is worse...Their rejection made me feel like I was some sub

> species of female who deserved to be raped--that I am utterly worthless to

> other women.It's taken me years to start to get over that.

>

> I felt better later today--and I was right,I really did just need to be

> alone--I was able to focus on an image that kept flashing in my head last

> weekend.It was from what I think now must have been one of the worst weeks

> of my entire life so far--this one week that seems to have wrecked me for

> years when it COULD have been the week I was rescued.

>

> The boys who were raping me (along with my teenaged babysitter when my

> " parents " went out at night--she wasn't very bright and was actually only

> twelve when it started and she ended up participating to spare herself)

> anyway those boys got nastier and wilder as time went on and they never got

> caught or nothing happened to them.It's like they even pushed it to see how

> much they could get away with,how far they could go,like it was part of the

> fun.The *only* reason why it did stop was because the ring leader turned 18

> and left home and the other ones didn't dare to continue without him.And

> some time soon after that,we got a dog,a Giant Schnauzer.They're awesome

> guard dogs.In a way,I was also saved by the dog--imagine PD parents who

> acquire a certain breed and have no idea how to train it--he was bred to be

> a guard dog and he did attack people,just not us.Of course I had no way of

> knowing it was going to end--it seemed like it would go on either forever or

> until they killed me.I think now that if we had gotten the dog earlier,it

> might have ended sooner.That wasn't the reason they got a dog,of course.Nada

> didn't even realize he was a Giant Schnauzer,she just thought he was a cute

> puppy.

>

> Humiliation is a common feature of gang rape,as is the use of objects.They

> did both--then one night more than two years into this,they involved my

> gerbils.We had several because nada had let them breed.The babies from one

> of the litters had gotten all tangled up in some nesting material she had

> bought and most of them died horribly from having the material wound around

> their necks and bodies.I cut them out one by one from the " nest " with a pair

> of cuticle scissors and carefully cut off the wrapped around strands from

> their bodies while nada sat there and screamed and cried about what a

> nightmare it was.Tiny little feet coming away between my fingers as I cut

> away the material--feet literally cut off by how tightly the " nesting " was

> wrapped around them.Tiny tails coming off the same way.Baby gerbils

> convulsing and dying in my lap.One with its head dangling because the

> material was wrapped so tight around its neck it half way cut off its

> head.The ones I managed to save had missing legs,feet,tails.

>

> One of them lost one front leg and one back leg.Nada called her

> " Gimper " ,can you imagine.Like it was funny--because after she got over her

> screaming " this is a nightmare " hysteria,she acted like nothing much had

> happened.Although she did go back to the pet store where she'd bought the

> nesting material in a rage--I was there and it was very embarassing.AND she

> lied about how SHE had tried to save them.

>

> Anyway,the night they involved the gerbils was some time after this,when

> " Gimper " was an adult gerbil (and I was seven).The abuse always happened in

> the living room in front of the tv--one of their jokes was, " Let's have sex

> while we watch tv " ...my brother was always already in bed,I made sure of

> that.I was actually terrified that they'd hurt him too,like this would be

> much worse than them hurting me.

>

> That night,November something of 1974,the movie " Willard " was on the

> tv.About some guy who keeps and trains rats.I think it was the sequel to

> " Ben " .There were five of them that night,a real party.Plus the babysitter.I

> think most of it is probably too graphic to write about here.One of the

> things they often did was choke me with a certain body part of theirs (using

> force and threats of injury/death--I never did anything willingly) until I

> faded out and then have fun slapping or shaking me to make me " wake up " .But

> that night because there were five of them and it was more brutal than it

> had been before and they were like all wild and insane,I did regain

> consciousness but I could not be there.Plus the movie on tv was adding to

> the nightmare atmosphere.I just stayed blank.

>

> So the ringleader picked me up by my ankles and dangled me upside down and

> sort of swung me around.I couldn't stop being blank.He put me down then

> dragged me by the ankles across the carpeted floor on my back so fast it was

> burning my back and one of them laughed because he said there were sparks

> and one of them laughed, " Hey,do you think we could make her spontaneously

> combust? "

>

> I wasn't a human being to them,just an object.And still that wasn't enough

> or exciting enough for them.The ringleader glanced at the tv (there was this

> pack of rats on the screen,I remember it as them sort of writhing and

> running) and he said, " You have rats,don't you? " and went towards our

> playroom where we had a neighborhood of Habitrails.

>

> I went after him,present again,because I couldn't bear for him to hurt my

> gerbils.He took the lid off of one of the Habitrails and grabbed " Gimper "

> while I kicked at him (and he laughed) and tried to pull his arm away (while

> he laughed) and he walked off ahead of me holding her by the tail while I

> ran after him saying, " Put her back,don't hurt my gerbil " and crying.

>

> I told them if he put her back,I'd do anything they wanted,just put her

> back.That only gave him an idea.

>

> They held me down on the sofa and tried to get " Gimper " to attack me.First

> by dangling her in my face by her tail so she'd bite me on the face.Then by

> throwing her at me.I was terrified they were going to kill her.Then they had

> the idea to rape me with the gerbil when they tried but she didn't bite me

> down there.So they used her as an object--like I would kill my own gerbil

> with my own body.She was scratching me with the claws from her one front

> foot.

>

> After a few moments of this (and I was sure she was going to suffocate to

> death any second and was willing her to stay alive and keep scratching

> me),the ringleader pulled her out and held her up by the tail.He lit a

> cigarette and held it close to her.She twitched and bucked to get away from

> the heat.He put the cigarette near one of her eyes and said, " I'm going to

> gouge this rat's eye out with my cigarette " while they all laughed and I

> struggled to get free from them but couldn't.Then he threw her at me and

> they let me go.

>

> I remember standing naked in our playroom with the light on checking her

> over for injuries,my hands shaking and everything sort of flashing before

> me.She seemed fine.I put her back in her cage.I had a carpet burn on my back

> and it hurt and other bruising.I was tossing in my bed later trying not to

> go insane and I decided that enough was enough.They had threatened,again,to

> kill me if I told.The babysitter had begged me not to say anything so she

> wouldn't get in trouble.But this was no longer just about my life.I was

> really afraid that the next time,they would kill one of the gerbils and

> maybe even " Gimper " who had miraculously lived through that nesting material

> horror.

>

> The next morning I thought I'd find her dead,but she was alive.I rehearsed

> something to say to nada and asked her to come to the playroom.I didn't

> think she'd care about me,but I thought she really loved the gerbils.I

> thought that if she knew what had happened to " Gimper " that she'd care and

> want to do something.

>

> She screamed at me that she was " sick of you and your sick lies " and told

> me to shut up.Like,really furious with me.

>

> So I decided to tell my second grade teacher.I waited until we had a

> playtime/break in the classroom and asked to speak privately to her.She

> laughed at me when I told her what I had to say (and I did say specifically

> " I don't want to have sex with those boys anymore " --I wasn't being

> cryptic)--she laughed and said, " Did you see that on tv? You must have seen

> that on tv... " THEN SHE WALKED AWAY.

>

> I felt like I was doomed to die,that " Gimper " was doomed to die.I felt like

> I was going to lose my mind.I felt myself turning into a human

> corpse,sitting there at my desk.My whole body from the neck down turning

> into this dead block of wood.I didn't know quite how I would

> die--asphixiation,by fire as they threatened to do--only that I knew that

> every time it got worse and after this being the worst it had been (I have

> omitted other graphic details),that the only even worse I could imagine

> would be them getting so out of control,they killed me.

>

> The year before,with this same idiotic teacher,the police had come to give

> a presentation about stranger danger.They gave us this ridiculous book about

> a boy saving his little sister from a man who abducted her in his car by

> running to the police.I was like,well,what do you do if you don't have a big

> brother???

>

> When the two policemen were taking questions from us,I went over to the

> teacher and asked her if I could talk privately to the policemen.She said ok

> and I went back to my seat.But then they were leaving and she was going wih

> them out in the hall.I got up and went after them and she told me to go back

> into the classroom.I said, " But I told you,I wanted to ask them some

> questions " and she said, " You had a chance to ask them questions in class,why

> didn't you ask your questions then? They have to go now,go back to your

> seat. "

>

> I said to the policemen, " I need to talk to you about something " and the

> teacher told me again to go back to my seat and the policemen were just

> standing there smiling and neither of them responded to me at all.It was

> surreal,like they were all just idiots.Or they just didn't care.

>

> So,that day in second grade after the " Willard " night I thought of calling

> the police but then I figured they wouldn't even listen to me.Later that

> week I had a Brownie meet and I decided to tell the Brownie leader.

>

> I was going to ask to speak to her after the meet.But she got upset when

> the girls didn't line right up when she told them to and burst into

> tears.She was sobbing, " Nobody ever listens to me...why...why...why...I told

> you to line up,I told you to line up... " Her mascara was running in lines

> down her cheeks and she looked like a lunatic.She was childish,sobbing over

> nothing.She wanted US to comfort HER.

>

> And I thought,she's even more of a kid than we are.She's not going to

> listen to me,either.And she was STILL crying after we lined up and were

> filing out of the school library and she was saying, " I quit,I quit...you

> might not have a meet the next time,until you get a new Brownie leader...I

> quit,nobody ever listens to me... " Boo hoo hoo,massive self pity.

>

> I developed a new alter instead,the only solution I could come up with.His

> name was Jake and he didn't care if he died.He also liked sex and to him it

> was a funny joke that those boys thought they were doing a girl when they

> were really doing a boy--the joke was on them.He stood in for me every time

> afterward,but unfortunately he also didn't go away after it stopped.That's

> another part of a long story.I didn't integrate Jake until late January or

> so of this year.

>

> About censoring...I censor myself all the time in the sense of hardly ever

> mentioning aloud what I'm thinking about,the many intrusive trauma

> flashbacks that I have.Or I'm talking about one thing (something normal and

> acceptable) while I'm thinking about something I know I can't share.I also

> censor myself alot on this board--sometimes I don't.Like with this (and this

> is a censored version...)

>

> I understand how it's too much for other people to hear or to deal with.Or

> how someone other than me (or my therapist) would develop compassion fatigue

> hearing about it.I have to live with all of this that could have been/should

> have been stopped if I hadn't been surrounded by idiots when it was

> happening.I start to achieve better acceptance of it or better objectivity

> or more peace with it,then there is another layer to deal with.My girlfriend

> says things like, " Oh,darling,you don't have to think about those things

> anymore,it's going to be ok now " like here let me hold you and make it all

> go away...but it doesn't work like that.I wish it did,but it just doesn't.

>

> I don't know how long it's going to take or if this is going to be

> lifelong.I keep wanting to get to the point where I can make use of my

> experiences to *do* something to effect change,like at least getting NJ's

> mandated reporter law changed.But I'm never there yet.I'm farther along in

> coming to terms with all of it than I've ever been before...and...I don't

> want all this suffering to be only that and just in vain...but until I get

> it together,most of my processing is going to have to be done on my

> own,alone...it seems to me...Sometimes I don't even know anymore what would

> help,just that there is safety in solitude.

>

> Thanks for listening...

>

> >

> > Hi ,

> > I decided to answer your email in pieces because of the different issues.

> > I am so sorry to hear of your struggle with recovery around being gang

> raped when you

> > were so young. I do so get how people do not want to hear of these things

> that have happened

> > because to them it is incomprehensible. It is not something they have any

> skill with and so cannot really face it. However, I am not one of those

> people. I have volunteered a lot of my time with women who have gone through

> these things (and I also worked as a research

> > interviewer with women who had experienced abuse and drug issues).

> > That program I did and then volunteered for (womeninpowerprogram.com)

> involved hundreds of women who have gone through similar (some worse some

> not as bad) situations.

> >

> > I do know there are those who can and will gladly be with you and *get

> it*. But in general most people can't do it. And I know that is a lonesome

> and sometimes desperate place to be in. It does make sense that you would

> want to be alone when you experience flashbacks. This is that other aspect

> where people don't understand that sometimes it is better that way.

> > (I had friends over last night, and felt that I really needed to be alone

> even though I complain I am lonely...it's just sometimes you need that when

> you are going through pain).

> > And yeah, censoring yourself is a very bad feeling. That is how most of

> us (on this list) probably grew up to one degree or another.

> >

> > The idea that adults would not listen to you is so outrageous. And yet,

> over time I see how adults are not what we think they are when we are

> children.

> >

> > I am glad you are in a good place with your sexuality. And yet I hear

> that there are the layers underneath of the evil that was perpetrated on

> you. Again, there are those who can and will listen and will not require you

> to censor yourself. I have seen some amazing things with women helping other

> women to heal. Truly amazing. I believe it is possible. Not to forget or get

> rid of those bad things but to transform ourselves in that alchemy of

> healing that is possible. I know there are really not the right words to

> articulate how it *was* for you. Especially since you were so young when it

> happened and you had no validation or savior to protect you. That is why I

> loved the work I did/witnessed because there was the acceptance that *words*

> were not always possible or even the best way to work on the issue(s).

> > Of course the work is ongoing for us all. But that pathway is the one

> thing I have experienced a sense of joyfulness in healing; a relief of being

> witnessed; and love of being cared for.

> >

> > So, anything you care to say, just letting you know, that I am not afraid

> to hear it. And being alone is fine too!

> > more later,

> > ~patricia

> > Re: gaslighting

> >

> > ,thank you for your caring and your counsel.I have had to

> resolve,to myself,that I am in fact utterly alone in the experience I had

> with the gang rapes,that happened during a period of three years from ages

> 5-8.It's something nobody ever understands or wants to hear about.My

> encounter with absolute evil.My therapist is the only one who can bear any

> of it in the details,but she's heard so much and she did choose that

> profession after all of her own free will...

> >

> > I told my girlfriend the truth: I just need to be alone this

> weekend.People,including her,take that the wrong way but that is what I do

> need.Not because I WANT to be alone.But because I AM.That is what I didn't

> have when the rapes were happening: being able to say that I need to be left

> ALONE.And to have that be respected.

> >

> > If I could simply--and it is really very simple,but apparently too much

> to ask of others--share some of the details so it would be known how bad it

> was,I could get it off my chest so to speak...but it becomes an issue of

> making others uncomfortable,so I have to deal with it alone except in

> therapy.

> >

> > Like,my girlfriend would say: But you need company right now...as if that

> would be a comfort but it is NOT when I am having to censor myself.I'd

> rather be alone.Because the censoring is a trigger.

> >

> > I've done everything I can think of to deal with the flashbacks from the

> first hot weather: letting myself feel it/experience it/...telling myself

> it's not happening now...trying to replace it with a better/happier

> experience...but it's actually a catastrophe on top of previous catastrophe

> so when it happened I didn't have any foundation to rely on,just more

> previous horror from nada--that is why it was so resoundingly traumatic,not

> that it wouldn't have been anyway.It's just alot,alot of intensity...I was

> threatened with death (by burning my house down) every time afterward and I

> tried eventually to get help to no avail...my teacher laughed at me when I

> told her,when I believed that death was immanent for me...it's alot to deal

> with...and much much much comes up for me when the weather first gets hot,it

> comes over me no matter how hard I try...and I never want it to and always

> hope that this year will be different.

> >

> > I've worked on my sexuality for years and mostly it's fine now.My

> girlfriend and I have a meaningful sexual rapport and mostly it's been

> liberating,but not when I'm feeling like this.I do not want those monsters

> to intrude.I just want to leave that out when I can.Because having them

> *there* when I'm in this state is like they win.For me,sexual ecstasy is a

> spiritual matter and I don't want any evil sullying it,not when I have

> finally gotten to liberation.I need it to be holy and good and

> transcendental.Other than when I'm swilling in this utter despair (about

> MANY things related to being gang raped),I do feel the joyousness of deep

> sexual connection,like I am finally free from that horror and

> destruction.All I really want is to get beyond the knowningness of pure evil

> but for me it is many layered--MANY--and I have to accept that nobody is

> going to go there with me--except someone I pay to do so,my therapist--and

> that I am completely alone in that knowingness.

> >

> > It's something I could attempt to explain ad infinitum or ad nauseam but

> only I am going to get it.I feel like even if somebody else understood how

> bad it was,they will still conjecture stuff from it that I don't,although

> their awareness of just how bad it was would help somewhat.It never should

> have happened in the first place.And it got worse over time because nobody

> stopped it.I have to live with that.Just me,because it happened to me.

> >

> > The LPN idea...is just a means to an end.It's not what I want to end up

> doing,but it would enable me to work shifts on the weekend and go to school

> full time during the week.It will mean a cut in pay for a few years but I

> calculated the figures and I think it will work out in the longterm.My

> girlfriend's thing is :But why put yourself through all this belt tightening

> just to end up with a salary like you could have now if you just stay where

> you are?

> >

> > She comes from an impoverished country where you don't throw away a

> prestige position when you get one because you want to " find

> yourself " .Morality and security mean different things to her than to me.She

> came to this country to make a better life for herself--and to her,if you've

> got financial security,you'd be a fool to complain or to give that up.I

> understand that with all the changes I've been going through that my

> longterm plans might not seem like a sure thing to her--and I also

> understand the strange insecurity of living in a foreign country/culture

> since ironically I had the same thing living in *her* country myself.I

> understand the wanting stability.She's a strong person and isn't financially

> dependent on me,she's made her own way here,but she's also given up alot to

> do that because it's just not possible to live openly as a lesbian in

> Morocco and mainly what she had to trade for her own authenticity is a

> family/community connection (which is HUGE is her culture) and I do

> understand her needing to replace that enormous loss with something sure and

> stable--and her fears of me making a big change in direction not offering

> the safety and stability she needs to rely on.

> >

> > The other thing is...she tends to believe that dwelling on negativity

> perpetuates it,which is objectively true...in her mind,if she doesn't focus

> too much on something,it will resolve itself or a solution will present

> itself...which is also true of many things in life,but....not trauma...that

> I need to process and I can only do that by dealing with it.I wasted YEARS

> trying to make it all better by just getting on with my life,but it always

> came back to bite me.It's really hard in a romantic relationship to have to

> say: the relationship isn't enough to heal me...and to have the partner

> understand it isn't them,it is the enormity of the trauma.For her,it's like

> it's so upsetting (and maybe what I've written has made her sound a bit mean

> and selfish when she isn't: she does have my well being at heart,she just

> doesn't get what I went through)--it's so upsetting that she doesn't

> understand why I wouldn't chose to just walk away from it and leave it

> behind,like hand and hand into a brighter day...OF COURSE I would want our

> relationship to heal me but there is simply so much I am alone in with my

> own experience and it's complicated,so many many many things I am very very

> tired of having to deal with.

> >

> > I just need to be alone for a while.Faking it in any way whatsoever right

> now is too triggering.It seems like I can say over and over again that what

> I went through from birth was absolutely catastrophic but it's only words

> that only have meaning for me.So I will deal with that meaning alone.If

> needing to be alone wasn't made into a big deal,it wouldn't seem so

> alienating to both of us...

> >

> > I've been through this shit so many times in the past in relationships

> with the other person taking my needs for solitude (since I AM UTTERLY ALONE

> IN THIS and I can say that til I'm blue in the face and it's like I'm

> shouting into the wind)the wrong way and I am just really tired of it.

> >

> > Even after all these words,I haven't been able to explain how I feel at

> all.It's easier on me to just be alone,since there is really nothing I can

> say about it that would clarify all this complication that never should have

> been in the first place.

> >

>

May 9, 2010

Hi ,

Thanks for sharing your story. It is so hard to believe what goes on in

people's homes and what is worse is that you actually had the courage to speak

up and not one adult person listened! Not even the police! It's so freaking

weird to me; like child abuse is something people do not want to think exists.

I am glad you checked out that website. The interesting thing about predator

energy, that was focused on during the weekends was how we turn the predator

onto ourselves in different ways. It is sort of what was done and told to us

that we turn on ourselves (like: I am worth no more than a piece of trash). And

so within this is both the light and shadow of the predator. The light would be

using our predator as if we were a wild lioness, protecting our clan, ourselves,

finding food, etc. The dark side would be more like attacking our own selves,

attacking others, (and whatever other dark behaviors you can think of that might

lead more to our destruction rather than our wholeness).

Shadow Work is also part of this and you might find that interesting too. Like

Warrior energy, you can have both light and dark. That would be the part about

nuking someone. And sometimes a warrior must do that.

And the idea of this work that I mentioned before is to break that feedback loop

from the severe trauma. That is EXACTLY what it is about actually (now that I

think about it). Personally it was hard for me to integrate this idea, though I

saw others do it readily and become radiant in this new knowledge. For me, I

think the layers were not uncovered. The layers of my very low self esteem; the

bullying, the relationship with my mother, my father, the way my siblings and I

were in a subtle way kept separate. For example, when I was praised and thanked

for the work I did (which was a lot of work!) I felt huge shame and sadness. It

was because all these women around me were professionals and busy doing things

in their lives and I was not any of that, working low end jobs.

Many women have a hard time with groups of women, like you mentioned. That is

why I loved doing this program. At least for me, I felt mostly amazing positive

loving female energy. And in a safe environment. Many women there did not

trust women. I can see the allegory in your life to that play where the girl is

raped while adult women watched. Because you appealed to an adult woman, your

nada ignored your identity and made things worse in your life. She left you

alone with these people.

Anyway, it is horrible this whole scenario; the unchecked and unwatched energy

of these young rapists. I feel terrible this happened to you; and I admire the

way you tried to save yourself. I feel that if I had not moved from the area I

was in, when we did, this sort of thing may have escalated in my setting and

happened to some degree to me. It is like that book: Lord of the Flies.

Again; I am stunned by the lack of *hearing* by the teacher and the police and

the mother.

I know it is a delicate thing to offer care and comfort to this situation; but I

wish I could. It's like we carry our histories around with us in this glass jar

and it's hard to know what to do with it, set it down and risk it getting broken

and others seeing the contents or keep it in a *safe* place to not let he

contents out. Who knows what people will do with the contents??

I get how children's experiences are so intensely involved with things like the

animals getting twisted up with the nesting material and their devastation over

losing a pet and their determination to save one; as you did. To have that pet

used against you is just like something an nazi would do. It makes me feel very

angry and sad.

And to treat you so much like a piece of trash .... These souls have a lot to

account for in their lives.

Your experience with the Brownie leader just shows you how 'adult' has a loose

definition. I bet that you are very able to be " adult " when you need to (as I

am, especially around children). Here you are a little girl, turning every

which way for help and those who are " supposed " to be helping are just making it

worse! It's crazy. And it is amazing you came from this such an articulate and

beautiful soul.

So....as far as the women in power ...I am not saying that is something anyone

*should* do. But I am saying it is *different*. The predator concept is not

about negativity but more about a neutral powerful energy. I have seen women do

this beautiful healing work and learn to trust other women. Each time I staffed

an event there were 30 participants. I can't say everyone got what she came for

as that is so individual but I know some wonderful things happened; even things

that were difficult (for myself!).

I wish you great healing and trust in this .... I can most definitely hear your

story. It does not scare me away.

It makes me, instead, feel more dedicated to the cause to end child abuse. And

to open up the world of children's experiences to the world without blinders.

Thank you again for sharing, and trusting,

~patricia

Re: gaslighting

>

> ,thank you for your caring and your counsel.I have had to

resolve,to myself,that I am in fact utterly alone in the experience I had with

the gang rapes,that happened during a period of three years from ages 5-8.It's

something nobody ever understands or wants to hear about.My encounter with

absolute evil.My therapist is the only one who can bear any of it in the

details,but she's heard so much and she did choose that profession after all of

her own free will...

>

> I told my girlfriend the truth: I just need to be alone this

weekend.People,including her,take that the wrong way but that is what I do

need.Not because I WANT to be alone.But because I AM.That is what I didn't have

when the rapes were happening: being able to say that I need to be left

ALONE.And to have that be respected.

>

> If I could simply--and it is really very simple,but apparently

too much to ask of others--share some of the details so it would be known how

bad it was,I could get it off my chest so to speak...but it becomes an issue of

making others uncomfortable,so I have to deal with it alone except in therapy.

>

> Like,my girlfriend would say: But you need company right now...as

if that would be a comfort but it is NOT when I am having to censor myself.I'd

rather be alone.Because the censoring is a trigger.

>

> I've done everything I can think of to deal with the flashbacks

from the first hot weather: letting myself feel it/experience it/...telling

myself it's not happening now...trying to replace it with a better/happier

experience...but it's actually a catastrophe on top of previous catastrophe so

when it happened I didn't have any foundation to rely on,just more previous

horror from nada--that is why it was so resoundingly traumatic,not that it

wouldn't have been anyway.It's just alot,alot of intensity...I was threatened

with death (by burning my house down) every time afterward and I tried

eventually to get help to no avail...my teacher laughed at me when I told

her,when I believed that death was immanent for me...it's alot to deal

with...and much much much comes up for me when the weather first gets hot,it

comes over me no matter how hard I try...and I never want it to and always hope

that this year will be different.

>

> I've worked on my sexuality for years and mostly it's fine now.My

girlfriend and I have a meaningful sexual rapport and mostly it's been

liberating,but not when I'm feeling like this.I do not want those monsters to

intrude.I just want to leave that out when I can.Because having them *there*

when I'm in this state is like they win.For me,sexual ecstasy is a spiritual

matter and I don't want any evil sullying it,not when I have finally gotten to

liberation.I need it to be holy and good and transcendental.Other than when I'm

swilling in this utter despair (about MANY things related to being gang raped),I

do feel the joyousness of deep sexual connection,like I am finally free from

that horror and destruction.All I really want is to get beyond the knowningness

of pure evil but for me it is many layered--MANY--and I have to accept that

nobody is going to go there with me--except someone I pay to do so,my

therapist--and that I am completely alone in that knowingness.

>

> It's something I could attempt to explain ad infinitum or ad

nauseam but only I am going to get it.I feel like even if somebody else

understood how bad it was,they will still conjecture stuff from it that I

don't,although their awareness of just how bad it was would help somewhat.It

never should have happened in the first place.And it got worse over time because

nobody stopped it.I have to live with that.Just me,because it happened to me.

>

> The LPN idea...is just a means to an end.It's not what I want to

end up doing,but it would enable me to work shifts on the weekend and go to

school full time during the week.It will mean a cut in pay for a few years but I

calculated the figures and I think it will work out in the longterm.My

girlfriend's thing is :But why put yourself through all this belt tightening

just to end up with a salary like you could have now if you just stay where you

are?

>

> She comes from an impoverished country where you don't throw away

a prestige position when you get one because you want to " find

yourself " .Morality and security mean different things to her than to me.She came

to this country to make a better life for herself--and to her,if you've got

financial security,you'd be a fool to complain or to give that up.I understand

that with all the changes I've been going through that my longterm plans might

not seem like a sure thing to her--and I also understand the strange insecurity

of living in a foreign country/culture since ironically I had the same thing

living in *her* country myself.I understand the wanting stability.She's a strong

person and isn't financially dependent on me,she's made her own way here,but

she's also given up alot to do that because it's just not possible to live

openly as a lesbian in Morocco and mainly what she had to trade for her own

authenticity is a family/community connection (which is HUGE is her culture) and

I do understand her needing to replace that enormous loss with something sure

and stable--and her fears of me making a big change in direction not offering

the safety and stability she needs to rely on.

>

> The other thing is...she tends to believe that dwelling on

negativity perpetuates it,which is objectively true...in her mind,if she doesn't

focus too much on something,it will resolve itself or a solution will present

itself...which is also true of many things in life,but....not trauma...that I

need to process and I can only do that by dealing with it.I wasted YEARS trying

to make it all better by just getting on with my life,but it always came back to

bite me.It's really hard in a romantic relationship to have to say: the

relationship isn't enough to heal me...and to have the partner understand it

isn't them,it is the enormity of the trauma.For her,it's like it's so upsetting

(and maybe what I've written has made her sound a bit mean and selfish when she

isn't: she does have my well being at heart,she just doesn't get what I went

through)--it's so upsetting that she doesn't understand why I wouldn't chose to

just walk away from it and leave it behind,like hand and hand into a brighter

day...OF COURSE I would want our relationship to heal me but there is simply so

much I am alone in with my own experience and it's complicated,so many many many

things I am very very tired of having to deal with.

>

> I just need to be alone for a while.Faking it in any way

whatsoever right now is too triggering.It seems like I can say over and over

again that what I went through from birth was absolutely catastrophic but it's

only words that only have meaning for me.So I will deal with that meaning

alone.If needing to be alone wasn't made into a big deal,it wouldn't seem so

alienating to both of us...

>

> I've been through this shit so many times in the past in

relationships with the other person taking my needs for solitude (since I AM

UTTERLY ALONE IN THIS and I can say that til I'm blue in the face and it's like

I'm shouting into the wind)the wrong way and I am just really tired of it.

>

> Even after all these words,I haven't been able to explain how I

feel at all.It's easier on me to just be alone,since there is really nothing I

can say about it that would clarify all this complication that never should have

been in the first place.

>

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From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

May 9, 2010

PS.

I love the idea of a giant schnauzer protecting you..they are gorgeous dogs!

And I don't think I get compassion fatigue in listening; I guess I have done so

much work in this area that I find ways to cope with what I hear. Plus, you

know,

I need someone to listen to me too...