Re: in shock

[Guest guest]

Chelsea,

Your mom sounds like maybe she has some early dementia??  

I have seen this many times in the elderly. they think others are stealing from

them, hiding things, lying to them.  My grandmother used to accuse her room-mate

in a rest home of stealing all the time (and the things were right there.)  She

never got a dementia diagnosis and lived to 91 but this behavior started in her

early 80s.  

My great aunt (lived to 90, not in the same side of the family) exhibited this

same behavior again with no dementia dx.

So it may not be " personal " , you are just a convenient target. Or then again,

maybe she has felt this way all along.  However, I would go with the other

explanation. it is easier for you to live with and causes you less stress!

Hope you have a better day,

Vivien

> chelsea wrote:

> today my mother called me in a rage and asked " what am i going to tell hospice

about these missing pills? "   i am completely confused.  i have never gotten into

my fathers meds, why would i? 

[Guest guest]

Is it possible that your mom may have dementia related to the stress of caring

for your father? It would not be an uncommon thing at all.  If she is not

remembering what amount of pills she is giving your father, might that be

dangerous, or even neglectful if he doesn't get the medications he is prescribed

or gets too many of one?

Personally, if she doesn't feel grateful for what you have done, and this is a

lifelong thing you've dealt with from her, I think the stress on you is too much

and perhaps now that she has hospice to help her and you can talk to them with

your concerns, if there are any, it's time for you to take care of your own

health needs, both physical and mental and also your spiritual needs.  Being in

pain can cause depression and also depression can worsen pain.  I know by

experience.  I took care of both my parents during their last months.  

You are  not giving up, don't even think it.

Just step back away from things and try to observe the situation.  Your mom is

living in her worst nightmare.  It's not easy to be younger and in your own

pain, I know that too.  It's just a terrible time and I pray life gets better

for you soon.  

I've suffered with fibromyalgia for decades and my back is falling apart

since my teen years.  It was very hard to put myself first, but when I

started loving me, and realized that if I didn't take care of me, I may

not be able to handle my own illnesses, let alone anyone else's. 

My own husband was just diagnosed with Alzheimer's and he's only 59, I'm soon to

be 57 and live in a broken body full of pain.  I had no idea my senior years

were going to be like this, not so soon.  I pray there's a cure for Alzheimer's

before it's too late. 

I can say for myself, living alone is going to be very difficult in many ways.

Do take care,

Jennette

Chelsea wrote:

>hi all:

>

>today my mother called me in a rage and asked " what am i going to tell hospice

about these missing pills? " i am completely confused. i have never gotten into

my fathers meds, why would i? my pain is being managed by a very good pain

management doctor. i canot believe some of the things my mother said to me

" stop playing the victim like you always do and tell the truth " " i guess you

have a problem and can't help it " , etc.

[Guest guest]

dear vivien:

thanks so much for taking the time to respond. i thank god for this group, i

don't feel so alone knowing that you are all " out there " .

i'm terrified that my mom may be exhibiting symptoms of dementia since she,

herself, is terrified that she will end up like my dad who is not lucid anymore,

ever. she once made me promise that i would tell her if she started to exhibit

symptoms. now i don't know what to do. in any case, i don't want to talk to

her about anything for any reason right now.

whether this is dementia related or not, to think that she believes that i am

capable of the lowest and most slimy and reprehensible of all behaviors (to

steal meds from my dying father) is just mind boggling. she must think me below

contempt. i don't know how long she's felt this way about me. it's just too

much to find out that someone who supposedly loved you thinks for are this kind

of monster. there's nothing left to have faith in anymore. i can't figure out

what i've done to make her think this. i've never strayed from my doctor's

instructions, never been a druggie, i've never even been a drinker!

heartbroken, just heartbroken.

chelsea

--- Vivien Eisen wrote:

>

> Chelsea,

>

> Your mom sounds like maybe she has some early dementia??  

>

> I have seen this many times in the elderly.

[Guest guest]

" chelsea " wrote:

>

> dear vivien:

> > whether this is dementia related or not, to think that she believes that i

am capable of the lowest and most slimy and reprehensible of all behaviors (to

steal meds from my dying father) is just mind boggling. she must think me below

contempt.

Chelsea -

Please realize that if this IS a sign of dementia in your mother, it doesn't

reflect how she feels about you AT ALL. Paranoia is very common with various

forms of dementia, and it doesn't reflect any underlying belief about the person

at whom the paranoia is directed. It's a mental illness, that's all, and it

doesn't have anything to do with you or how she perceives you.

I'm speaking from experience here. I've dealt with the ravages of Alzheimer's

twice in my family - I lost my beloved father in law to it, and my own mother is

now in late stages. You can't take anything personally.

My father-in-law was the gentlest man I ever met - he never even spanked his son

- but in the throes of the disease in the later stages he became violent and

punched people. That wasn't him, and it had nothing to do with the person on

the receiving end of the punch - it was the disease. He also went through

paranoia earlier in his disease and thought his family was stealing from his

bank accounts. He NEVER would have thought or done those things in his right

mind - and he would have been MORTIFIED to know he had if he'd been aware of it.

Likewise, my mother went through a major paranoia stage earlier in her disease.

When she was bad, she was sure I was stealing from the house. My mother and I

were very close and had the best relationship you could ever hope for between

mother and daughter, and she still thought those things when the disease ate

holes in her brain. You can't take any of it personally. Their neurons aren't

firing properly, and all those gaps in memory and processing tell them things

that aren't there.

My folks also both went through lots of significant halleucinations. My mother

sees things and people who aren't there, clear as day in her mind.

It's all very creepy and difficult to deal with, but don't let her rants stop

you from trying to find her some help.

It might not be Alzeimers or dementia either, but some other cause. Small,

unnoticed strokes can cause these kinds of processing problems too.

You might suggest to your mom that you're worried for her health, what with all

the stress she's going through caring for your dad. Suggest that she go to her

doctor for a check up, and then if you can get her to agree, call her doctor in

advance and tell him/her of your suspicions and ask them to do an evaluation

while she's in the office.

If your mom is scared of the possibility of dementia, do NOT mention it directly

to her or she'll dig in her heels and refuse to go to the doctor.

Also be aware that if it is Alzheimers or something similar, there are a lot of

good drugs out there now that can ease symptoms and slow progression. There is

no cure, sadly, but with early diagnosis and treatment you can get several

additional good years with your loved ones.

Good luck, and again, just don't assume that this behavior reflects any reality

about how she feels and thinks about you until you rule out the potential that

there's something medically wrong going on with her.

Cheryl in AZ

Moderator

[Guest guest]

dear jennette:

thank you so much for your reply. dementia is a scourge, a nightmare. i pray

that it isn't beginning with my mother.

the shock of this is that she has never done this before, has always been

trusting and affectionate and grateful with me. we had a great relationship.

she was my best friend. until this morning.

i am so very sorry about your husband. i am 57 and can't imagine what you are

going through. i wish you strength.

chelsea

>

>

> Personally, if she doesn't feel grateful for what you have done, and this is a

lifelong thing you've dealt with from her, I think the stress on you is too much

and perhaps now that she has hospice to help her and you can talk to them with

your concerns, if there are any, it's time for you to take care of your own

health needs, both physical and mental and also your spiritual needs. 

[Guest guest]

Jennette wrote:

>

>> My own husband was just diagnosed with Alzheimer's and he's only 59, I'm soon

to be 57 and live in a broken body full of pain.  I had no idea my senior years

were going to be like this, not so soon.  I pray there's a cure for Alzheimer's

before it's too late. 

>

Dear Jeannette -

I'm am so very sorry to hear of your husband's diagnosis of early onset

Alzeimer's. I've gone through this twice already - once with my father-in-law,

and now with my own mother. If I can offer any advice or support, don't

hesitate to email me.

The one piece of advice I'd offer right away is to contact the Alzheimer's

Association office in your local area and find out what resources are available

to you. I've found them to be extremely helpful. Being in the care-giver role is

wearing even if you are in the best of health. You're going to need support and

help.

My mother-in-law found a lot of support from a support group in her local area.

There are also support groups for the patients themselves in the early stages,

and depending on your husband and his attitude, he might find that helpful as

well. There are also resources for " day care " options to help keep patients

active and engaged, as well as for home care support.

Don't forget to take care of yourself!

Cheryl in AZ

Moderator

[Guest guest]

Thank you, cheryl, for this excellent advice. I hadn't realized the possibility

of strokes, etc. I just need to decompress from this shock and then try to get

her to her doctor.

Thanks, again, for the great advice and very sobering message. this list and

all of you " out there " truly are life savers. really don't know what i'd do

without you. i'm very grateful to be a part of this community.

chelsea

Cheryl wrote:

> It might not be Alzeimers or dementia either, but some other cause. Small,

unnoticed strokes can cause these kinds of processing problems too.

[Guest guest]

Chelsea,

So nice of you to care.  I can see this has thrown you for a loop.  More reason

for you to consider something is making your mom's personality change.  Please

try not to take what she has said to heart.  This doesn't sound like her so try

to ignore those words and see how it goes.  There's time to consider a plan that

will be the right way to handle this, even though nothing is going to stay the

same. 

I don't know about you, but I like things to be familiar, not have all these

changes happening.  Except for the positive ones.

We'll get through these things.

Jennette

[Guest guest]

Thanks Cheryl, I am gathering all this information and I know the sooner I tap

into what's available, the better I can get a handle on it.   Sure are many

things to do.  I'm not even looking forward to the hassle his children are going

to cause for us. 

It's a fact that they do not like me one bit.

Now, one question, just how do I go about getting my ten's unit?  I have the

prescription for it.  My pain doc wrote it and my PCP offered to show me how to

use it.

Guess I need to find out just what my insurance is going to pay.   If I will be

responsible for much of the cost, I may not even bother getting it.

Jennette

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry to hear that you have been put into such an awful situation. I

went through home hospice with my father in law. My husband and did not have

him at our home, but I went to see him everyday at my sister in law's. My

mother in law reacted similarly to your mom. My mother in law had a really bad

time facing the extent of how bad my father in law was. He had cancer that had

spread everywhere. Within days of coming to my sister in law's home he was

seeing bugs and in and out of reality. My mother in law was so stingy on giving

him his pain medication. The doctor had said he could have morphine every hour.

She was giving it to him 3 or 4x/day at best. I tried to intervene and was told

to back off. She was in charge.

It is hard to watch loved ones die and suffer. The bad side of home hospice is

that family members who are having trouble coping can either under or

over-medicate.

It is definitely possible that your mom may have administered more medication

than she should. Your father could have gotten into the medication without her

knowledge. Without this complication, hospice is an extremely stressful

situation. Your mom most likely is angry at the situation. She is afraid of

being left alone.

I know the words are hurtful. Your mom may be angry and frighten about your dad

and is displacing those feelings on you who she perceives as a safe target. She

trusts that you will not leave her also.

It may help for either you or your husband to talk with her. Explain to her

that feeling anger and afraid are natural under the circumstances. Maybe

providing a suggestion or two on how to organize the medication might help.

If she continues to be aggressive and close you out, I would back off. You need

to think of your mental and physical health.

I hope this is some help. These situations are so very stressful and painful.

I am sorry to hear about your dad. I hope his struggle is short and that he

finds peace soon.

Please feel free to e mail me is you want to talk more.

Gentle hugs, Tami

> Chelsea wrote:

> today my mother called me in a rage and asked " what am i going to tell hospice

about these missing pills? " i am completely confused. i have never gotten into

my fathers meds, why would i?

[Guest guest]

> Jennette wrote:

> Now, one question, just how do I go about getting my ten's unit? I have the

prescription for it. My pain doc wrote it and my PCP offered to show me how to

use it.

Jennette,

The company you get it from will help you also, they are so helpful and the

units are programmed for parts of the body now and then you can go to manual. I

was so impressed with the way they work. My physical therapist helped me with

mine and I am sure the company will over-night it if he gave you scrip and your

Insurance might use a specific company but if not go online and look at the

companies and order, I guess. I have never had it done it that way, my physical

therapist ordered it but ask insurance. I would get it if it helps you. Bennie.

[Guest guest]

Chelsea,

I would contact Hospice and get them to make a note of this so they can deal

with your Mother and they might take over dispensing the medications because it

seems there is a problem. Your Mom is 81 and probably has dementia also and may

have given him two doses by mistake or he might have gotten up and taken them.

I have the same problem with my family and my last visit which I drove my sister

from florida to my Dads, after picking her up at the airport, said bad things

about me and I was having reaction to my cortisone, breaking out with red wheps

and confused. I asked them to take me to the Doctor but ignored me and then

yelled at me I should have gone to hospital.

We were supposed to talk about our inheritance as my Dad had his financial

manager call us and I put it on speaker phone and my older sister was there

listening so I couldn't do anything wrong, I am executor. Well my middle sister

came over and I was lying in the bed getting pressure off my back and she came

in there and told me " get off your ass and come in here and sit down and talk to

me and tell me what this made said MS> EXECUTRISS (drawling this out),

I came and sit down and she started yelling she was going to get her part no

matter what and I went back in and laid down and she came back in and said " I am

tired of you trying to get people to pity you with your " pain " and you do it

when ever you need to " She had been drinking and I went and tried to sit until

she was done with me and then laid down. I could hear them both talking about me

and I yelled out , quit talking about me as I could not hear you. Then they said

" I am going to talk to HER about that tomorrow " They told me I was paranoid

about people talking about me , but I could her them.

There was no thank you for driving me and my Sister got lost with a GPS and was

going the wrong way and wouldn't listen to me and drove on the wrong side of the

airport and ran over orange plastic cones but told my Sister, she couldn't let

me drive. GHEEZ.

My middle sister sent me an e-mail answer to an e mail I sent saying that I was

staying home instead of coming in as my husband was having extreme headaches and

I am supposed to monitor him as he has an 11mm colloidal brain tumor that could

make him stroke out and die anytime and she e mailed me back about how I have a

better house than her, better education, traveled the world in the military and

no matter if I have to lie in the bed the rest of my life, SHE IS NOT GOING TO

PITY ME>>>> Well, I e mailed her back at anytime she could have attended college

and my two Masters Degrees weren't given to me I worked for them and I worked

three jobs while she didn't work and I pay one thousand two hundred dollars a

month for my house while she pays zero for hers (my dad paid for it and her

husband had his land given to him and my dad has bought every car she owned)

So Chelsea, protect yourself and she is going to be the mean person she is and

won't change. Since you did not take them, call Hospice so in case this happens

again. I have had to call my Dads home health as he has threatened to hit my

sister, me and has turned off a truck I was driving down the highways key,

because he wanted to drive RIGHT THEN and there was traffic behind me and he was

yelling at me. In a store he was yelling at me, five people came up and asked

if they wanted me to call security and I said No, its okay.

Try to ignore them, I know its hard as I took care of my Mom when she was dying

and helped out and am helping out as I can. My Sister is getting paid to help

him and she is taking advantage of it already getting two thousand dollars from

him,had her dental care paid for , and is telling him how bad she has it. She

stole nine thousand dollars from him by forging a check and he paid thirty

thousand dollars of her credit card debt. She is a gambler and drunk and I have

given her money when no one will and she treats me like crap. I am trying to put

on an air of caring and keep good relationships as I am concerned about

couhersement and I am sure is getting what she can. When my Mom died, My Dad

took me Dad and had me sign her checkbook as she wanted my sister be jointly as

my Dad said my Sister lived closer and she could write checks on my Moms account

for her bills and then we could split it three ways as my Mom wanted.

Well, my Sister took that checking account and spent all the money for her Dogs

vet bills and to the Casino for her gambling debts. My Dad does nothing about

this and says it is because of her husband, her daughter, her grandson. IT makes

me so mad !

Also, My Sister got Sciatica last month and asked me how did I deal with the

pain. I told her I wake up to it every day and that is why I can't sit in a

chair and it feels like a knife sticking in me.

Chelsea, I will keep you in my thoughts and do not think you are alone, we care.

Family can be horrible but if they will not change do not feel you have to put

up with it and make sure you protect yourself and diffuse the situation. Might

make a medication chart she has to cross off each time she give meds. Thinking

of you Bennie

> Chelsea wrote:

> today my mother called me in a rage and asked " what am i going to tell hospice

about these missing pills? " i am completely confused. i have never gotten into

my fathers meds, why would i?

[Guest guest]

Chelsea,

Oh I forgot, just tell your Mom you are allergic to that medication, that will

nip it in the bud, fight fire with fire. Bennie

> Chelsea wrote:

> whether this is dementia related or not, to think that she believes that i am

capable of the lowest and most slimy and reprehensible of all behaviors (to

steal meds from my dying father) is just mind boggling.

[Guest guest]

Jennette,

Unfortunately there are just some mean people and some of them we get for

parents and I have the same kind and grew up under criticism my whole life and

have never been told I love you, or Thank You, or you are a smart kid, it has

been otherwise. I hope no one else has these type of parents. I have learned to

ignore it and just listen and protect myself. Bennie

> Jennette wrote:

> Personally, if she doesn't feel grateful for what you have done, and this is a

lifelong thing you've dealt with from her, I think the stress on you is too much

and perhaps now that she has hospice to help her and you can talk to them with

your concerns, if there are any, it's time for you to take care of your own

health needs, both physical and mental and also your spiritual needs.

[Guest guest]

Bennie,

I left home when I was 16 because my dad was nothing but mean.  I had horrible

depression and anxiety all my childhood.  Both my mom and I dreaded the moment

he came  home from work each day.  I know he lived in terrible back pain, but

his temper and unpredictable personality made life terrible.

Mom said she wished she had left him years ago when she was diagnosed with

terminal cancer.  She felt that she had been cheated out of a happy life.  Dad

provided, no doubt about that but mom couldn't spend money on anything he didn't

approve of.

Taking care of them during their last months was not easy for me.  Mom took her

vows seriously though when she married him, not even considering that he was

abusive to everyone.  She was a kind and loving person and he ruined her life.

I was 33 when they passed away.  Dealing with the will, and my half sister and

brothers was horrible and I think making one of the children Executrix is just

the wrong thing to do.  I wouldn't have done it had I known how mean people

are.  The accusations and lies from my siblings was a shock to me.  They were

all much older than I and always hated me for being mom and dad's only child

together.  After that experience I've not trusted anyone. 

I believe having parents like my dad is one of the reasons we  have chronic pain

and illness.

Jennette

>Bennie wrote:

>Jennette,

>

>Unfortunately there are just some mean people and some of them we get for

parents and I have the same kind and grew up under criticism my whole life and

have never been told I love you, or Thank You, or you are a smart kid, it has

been otherwise. I hope no one else has these type of parents. I have learned to

ignore it and just listen and protect myself.

[Guest guest]

-

>

>... " today my mother called me in a rage and asked " what am i going to

tell hospice about these missing pills? " ...

>

Big red warning flags!!!!!

I am truly sorry that your familial relationship has taken a nasty turn,

but it is truly time to put yourself first, and protect yourself from

how your mother might meddle in your pain management. If she complains

to a doctor about your stealing medications, your pain management could

end.

Unfortunately, it is often safest and wisest to limit visits and

conversations with those who threaten your well being, and this sounds

like the basis of such a threat.

You may need to find a home health aide for your mother, removing

yourself from any handling of medication in her home. You probably need

to stop discussing your health concerns with your mother, depriving her

of information supporting her accusation.

While all this is difficult, it is also a great time to start putting

yourself ahead of her needs.

[Guest guest]

> Diva wrote:

> I am truly sorry that your familial relationship has taken a nasty turn, but

it is truly time to put yourself first, and protect yourself from how your

mother might meddle in your pain management.

Diva,

I agree with what you say and toxic relationships will make you depressed

and tent to become more insecure. All resources I have read state pain patients

have to be in survivor mode.

Ironic as it seems, my Dad is like this and I worry about him needing

someone there to help him but his meanness, stubbornness, and self centerness

has allowed for him to make it to 94 with little health problems. He had a

quadruple heart bypass at 78 and cartoidenectomy (sp_ (blocked carotid artery

cleaned out, the stuff the Doctor got out looked at jello)

His Sister is one hundred and two and hasn't had any medical problems

except " a dropped bladder " as she explains it.

I respect my Dad but now he is older and slumped over, he still tries to

exert his control over you on little, little issues but it is all day long and

it is exhausting and bad for your health.

Something he has done will upset me and I will not say anything and push

it back and it will be a regressed feeling as I am supposed to respect my Dad.

He is a mean man, and then my Dad.

I now tell him, please do not talk to me like that or say, Lets talk

about something else, this bothers me or just Lets not talk about this.

I agree that Chelsea should tell the Hospice Nurse and I think the aide

comes for her Father but her Mother needs assessment also, don't you think ?

That is why it is important to write their behavior down so the aide/Nurse can

enter it the Nurses notes and protect Chelsea and her Father and Mother.

It is sad that her Mother could not say, there is medication that is

lost and I have to make sure Dad didn't take it or I double dosed. The aides

bring the meds in one of those med minders and it is easy to miscalculate and

for one of my patients we put a calendar beside his med minder and he crossed

off the meds as he took them and we made a slash mark on the calendar day for am

and pm and the patient marked it off that way. For patients that are not out and

about and do not know the day of the week, this a good way to remember.

It is sad to have a dysfunctional family that cannot express love but I

have tried to correct that in my family and avoid passing that problem down in

generations. Bennie

[Guest guest]

hi diva:

thank you so much for the reply and for the great advice. i think one of the

biggest parts of the shock of this situation was when i realized, almost

immediately, the damage my mom could do to me and my treatment if she takes her

accusations " public " , so to speak.

i have already taken your recommendations to heart, when it first happened, and

no longer discuss anything about my medical conditions (degenerative arthritis

and fibro) or my medical care with her. i have never handled dad's meds and

never will.

the good news is that she has now decided that she has said she never wants to

talk about this again with me (um, yay, mom, duh) and, when hospice made their

visit yesterday, found out first hand that they do no count pills, or even open

the bottles, they just ordered refills. the bad news is that she could accuse

me of this again at any time.

i am going to have to be very, very wary and careful around her but i made a

promise to help both her and my dad until the bitter end. i cannot go back on

that promise and look myself in the mirror each day.

a big, big, big thank you to everyone, bennie, jennette, tami, cheryl, diva, and

everyone else that replied to me and gave me such great advice. i am so

thankful and grateful for all y'all each and everyday. you are all wonderful

people and i'm so proud to be associated with you.

much love

chelsea

> Diva wrote:

> I am truly sorry that your familial relationship has taken a nasty turn, but

it is truly time to put yourself first, and protect yourself from how your

mother might meddle in your pain management. If she complains to a doctor about

your stealing medications, your pain management could end.

[Guest guest]

Hi Bennie:

You always give such awesome, great advice, thank you so, so much!!

Unfortunately, there is very little I can do to protect or defend myself. I

really can't go behind my mom's back and contact hospice to tell them what

happened. I guarantee that if I did this, it would escalate out into the

stratosphere and end very badly since it's really just her word against mine.

What I can do is never deal with my dad's meds (which I never have and never

will), never tell my family about my medical conditions and progress or

problems, never discuss my medical care or my medications and generally just cut

them out of the loop on all things medical. I've considered waiting a little

while and then mentioning that I am no longer on any meds at all. It's really

none of their business anyway, right?

The thing about my dad's meds is that he isn't on anything that is given

regularly, everything is on as as needed basis so no one is required to keep

track of when or what amount is given. Fortunately, hospice advised my mom to

discontinue administering any narcotic pain killers since dad has reacted badly

to them. I really wanted to recommend that hospice take the narcotics out of

the house if he's not using them but I really can't say anything or things will

get ugly again. I would also LOVE it if hospice required her to write down all

the meds she gives him, when, and what amount. Again, I can't say anything.

I'm just going to help with babysitting dad, the shopping, cleaning, cooking and

errands as I always have and stop including the family in discussions of

anything medical. It's the only course of action open to me.

If she accuses me again, she accuses me again. There's little I can do except

try to prove by my behavior that I would never do that and never have. iI's

pretty lame, but I don't see any other way.

Thank you, Bennie

Chelsea

Bennie wrote:

> I would contact Hospice and get them to make a note of this so they can deal

with your Mother and they might take over dispensing the medications because it

seems there is a problem. Your Mom is 81 and probably has dementia also and may

have given him two doses by mistake or he might have gotten up and taken them.