Guest guest Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 Wow phine, that is inexcusable of your mother, practically criminal to set you and your sister up for abuse like that. I keep thinking I won't be shocked anymore but I still am. I think fathers like that are so invested in the marriage, so dominated, that the whole house of cards inside of them would fall apart if they began to admit what they had colluded in. It's easier for them to keep on believing and reinforcing the story of " how things are " which is fictional rather than admit they've been passively party to the abuse of their children and live themselves in emotional slavery. I'm sorry all that happened for you and hope you have some peace and safety now. > > for as long as I can remember my father has talked about my mother to us like she had the most horrible experiences possible (she did have a horrible childhood after losing her mother). But no matter what happened to us nothing about our childhoods mattered because my mother had it worse. Her father was a pedophile who abused her her entire childhood, and also abused my sister and I. The very few times I have talked about this to my father he completely minimizes this happening, saying things like 'your mother had to endure it her entire life, and you just had one or two little incidences " with an air of complete indignance (!!!...for the record even though her father did this my mother still sent my sister and I to stay with him for a week unsupervised, separately, and of course we were assaulted by him). Does anyone else have this excuse making by the fada in the family to invalidate their own suffereing? It's absolutely inane the lengths my father will go to to deny that I and my siblings might have had any pain or suffered at all, during childhood. We are always silenced by his protectiveness of my mother as 'the queen of having suffered'. (I sometimes wonder if perhaps he's projected his own suffereing as a child, which he can't consciously claim, onto her). He talks about her like she is infallible and without any fault yet at the same time he has abused her emotionally and pschologically their entire marriage. I also found out that he cheated on her, as well. Probably serially. i don't understand this dynamic, at all. Can anyone relate to this type of dysfunction? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 I am so sorry that happened to you. For a lot of KOs, I think a common problem is minimizing the abuse we suffered, especially when we can cite examples of someone else having endured worse abuse: " Oh, it's not really that bad, I mean, she never hit me or anything, " etc. It seems like your dad wants you to do this. He is in denial, and if you aren't in denial, too, that's hard for him to deal with. What if he had to admit that he married a crazy woman who abuses his children? What if he had to stop and look at the fact that HE, TOO sent you away to stay with his pedophile FIL? He doesn't want to feel responsible for what happened to you. I have been frustrated with my dad lately, too. I recently shared with him some of the things my mom has been saying to me (e.g., that she has offered to pack up and move 500+ miles without consulting him about it, and that she continues to force me to re-state my boundary about all her visits with my kids being supervised). I wanted to communicate with him and let him know why we will not be going to restaurants with her anymore. He says things like, " That really hurts me! " and " She's not as evil as you think she is, " and, " She would never hurt those kids, they're precious and she loves them! " What I want to hear him say--and what I think we all want the non-BP parent to say to us when we share our stories with him--is: " I believe you. You're right, your mother really has some problems. I'm sorry I never stood up for you. I think you're doing the right thing. Your kids are worth protecting. " But that's not what they say to us, because they need to believe in the illusion of a healthy family. If they can convince us to keep going along with the charade, then they don't have to face facts. And that's really, really sad. When one parent is so blatantly crazy and abusive as our parents with BPD are, one coping mechanism kids come up with is to idealize the other parent. It's usually much easier to understand that the parent with BPD has faults than it is to come to terms with the fact that the non-BP was never really our hero, and that by remaining passive or dismissive, they played just as much a part in the abuse. KT > > for as long as I can remember my father has talked about my mother to us like she had the most horrible experiences possible (she did have a horrible childhood after losing her mother). But no matter what happened to us nothing about our childhoods mattered because my mother had it worse. Her father was a pedophile who abused her her entire childhood, and also abused my sister and I. The very few times I have talked about this to my father he completely minimizes this happening, saying things like 'your mother had to endure it her entire life, and you just had one or two little incidences " with an air of complete indignance (!!!...for the record even though her father did this my mother still sent my sister and I to stay with him for a week unsupervised, separately, and of course we were assaulted by him). Does anyone else have this excuse making by the fada in the family to invalidate their own suffereing? It's absolutely inane the lengths my father will go to to deny that I and my siblings might have had any pain or suffered at all, during childhood. We are always silenced by his protectiveness of my mother as 'the queen of having suffered'. (I sometimes wonder if perhaps he's projected his own suffereing as a child, which he can't consciously claim, onto her). He talks about her like she is infallible and without any fault yet at the same time he has abused her emotionally and pschologically their entire marriage. I also found out that he cheated on her, as well. Probably serially. i don't understand this dynamic, at all. Can anyone relate to this type of dysfunction? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 KT - I think you're absolutely right. My few times alone with my Dad (who was not really a dishrag - he was just as confused as I was by my mother's craziness) - were good, solid dad/daughter times. Unfortunately, they tended to take place later in his life, when he was already sick. Other memories I have are almost always centered on my mom and her " showboating " and control of every freaking event. I wish I'd developed a good golf game, or been able to do something involving only the two of us, Nada-free. I wanted to mention that my mom also tries to tell my son that he " ought to " come up and visit her for a week in the summer. There is no point in my telling her that he will NEVER be doing that, since she goes nuts about being told " no. " However, I wanted to mention that I have told my son he will never have to go - once he was old enough to understand that his grandma " has a hard time being nice, sometimes, so we don't argue with her - but we don't just do whatever she says, either. " He and I could look across the table at the restaurant and smile, because he KNEW that whatever she said, I would never make him go with her, or allow him to be with her without me being there to protect him. > > > > for as long as I can remember my father has talked about my mother to us like she had the most horrible experiences possible (she did have a horrible childhood after losing her mother). But no matter what happened to us nothing about our childhoods mattered because my mother had it worse. Her father was a pedophile who abused her her entire childhood, and also abused my sister and I. The very few times I have talked about this to my father he completely minimizes this happening, saying things like 'your mother had to endure it her entire life, and you just had one or two little incidences " with an air of complete indignance (!!!...for the record even though her father did this my mother still sent my sister and I to stay with him for a week unsupervised, separately, and of course we were assaulted by him). Does anyone else have this excuse making by the fada in the family to invalidate their own suffereing? It's absolutely inane the lengths my father will go to to deny that I and my siblings might have had any pain or suffered at all, during childhood. We are always silenced by his protectiveness of my mother as 'the queen of having suffered'. (I sometimes wonder if perhaps he's projected his own suffereing as a child, which he can't consciously claim, onto her). He talks about her like she is infallible and without any fault yet at the same time he has abused her emotionally and pschologically their entire marriage. I also found out that he cheated on her, as well. Probably serially. i don't understand this dynamic, at all. Can anyone relate to this type of dysfunction? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 Hi, My dad wouldn't do this but my mother did. If I was getting teased, she would then tell how she got teased in school. That is just a small part of it because it was ongoing enough to shut me up from telling people how I felt. I married a man (now my ex), who would also invalidate my experiences and feelings; not in the same way, but more dismissive way, as though there was something wrong with how I feel. Many times I've had close friends tell me: No need to be defensive; or: you sound defensive....which is no wonder because I have felt I needed to defend my own feelings my whole life. So yeah.... I think that the cure for this is accepting one's self every day, starting over every minute if you have to. Because when parents invalidate their children's experiences it is crippling in a lot of ways. ~patricia fada question for as long as I can remember my father has talked about my mother to us like she had the most horrible experiences possible (she did have a horrible childhood after losing her mother). But no matter what happened to us nothing about our childhoods mattered because my mother had it worse. Her father was a pedophile who abused her her entire childhood, and also abused my sister and I. The very few times I have talked about this to my father he completely minimizes this happening, saying things like 'your mother had to endure it her entire life, and you just had one or two little incidences " with an air of complete indignance (!!!...for the record even though her father did this my mother still sent my sister and I to stay with him for a week unsupervised, separately, and of course we were assaulted by him). Does anyone else have this excuse making by the fada in the family to invalidate their own suffereing? It's absolutely inane the lengths my father will go to to deny that I and my siblings might have had any pain or suffered at all, during childhood. We are always silenced by his protectiveness of my mother as 'the queen of having suffered'. (I sometimes wonder if perhaps he's projected his own suffereing as a child, which he can't consciously claim, onto her). He talks about her like she is infallible and without any fault yet at the same time he has abused her emotionally and pschologically their entire marriage. I also found out that he cheated on her, as well. Probably serially. i don't understand this dynamic, at all. Can anyone relate to this type of dysfunction? ------------------------------------ Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 I agree with , and I'm sorry I didn't mention it. It is horrible to send children to someone like that; criminal as said. I think is right too, about the 'house of cards' concept. They can't let it fall apart and become blind to their actions. I am sorry you had to go through this, ~patricia Re: fada question Wow phine, that is inexcusable of your mother, practically criminal to set you and your sister up for abuse like that. I keep thinking I won't be shocked anymore but I still am. I think fathers like that are so invested in the marriage, so dominated, that the whole house of cards inside of them would fall apart if they began to admit what they had colluded in. It's easier for them to keep on believing and reinforcing the story of " how things are " which is fictional rather than admit they've been passively party to the abuse of their children and live themselves in emotional slavery. I'm sorry all that happened for you and hope you have some peace and safety now. > > for as long as I can remember my father has talked about my mother to us like she had the most horrible experiences possible (she did have a horrible childhood after losing her mother). But no matter what happened to us nothing about our childhoods mattered because my mother had it worse. Her father was a pedophile who abused her her entire childhood, and also abused my sister and I. The very few times I have talked about this to my father he completely minimizes this happening, saying things like 'your mother had to endure it her entire life, and you just had one or two little incidences " with an air of complete indignance (!!!...for the record even though her father did this my mother still sent my sister and I to stay with him for a week unsupervised, separately, and of course we were assaulted by him). Does anyone else have this excuse making by the fada in the family to invalidate their own suffereing? It's absolutely inane the lengths my father will go to to deny that I and my siblings might have had any pain or suffered at all, during childhood. We are always silenced by his protectiveness of my mother as 'the queen of having suffered'. (I sometimes wonder if perhaps he's projected his own suffereing as a child, which he can't consciously claim, onto her). He talks about her like she is infallible and without any fault yet at the same time he has abused her emotionally and pschologically their entire marriage. I also found out that he cheated on her, as well. Probably serially. i don't understand this dynamic, at all. Can anyone relate to this type of dysfunction? > ------------------------------------ Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 , I try not to expose my kids too much to the conflicts I have with my mom. But when she leaned over and whispered to my son last year that he should come stay with her, I did want to talk about it with him afterwards. I asked what he thought when my mom asked him to come stay with him. " It was weird. Plus, I wouldn't even want to do that! " he said. " It would be no fun--who would play with me? " My mom sleeps until after noon, then takes 2 hours to get ready. My dad would wake up earlier, but can't move around very well. So at 6 years old, my kid already knew better. I like that you have helped your son not feel trapped by your mom's suggestion. KT > > > > > > for as long as I can remember my father has talked about my mother to us like she had the most horrible experiences possible (she did have a horrible childhood after losing her mother). But no matter what happened to us nothing about our childhoods mattered because my mother had it worse. Her father was a pedophile who abused her her entire childhood, and also abused my sister and I. The very few times I have talked about this to my father he completely minimizes this happening, saying things like 'your mother had to endure it her entire life, and you just had one or two little incidences " with an air of complete indignance (!!!...for the record even though her father did this my mother still sent my sister and I to stay with him for a week unsupervised, separately, and of course we were assaulted by him). Does anyone else have this excuse making by the fada in the family to invalidate their own suffereing? It's absolutely inane the lengths my father will go to to deny that I and my siblings might have had any pain or suffered at all, during childhood. We are always silenced by his protectiveness of my mother as 'the queen of having suffered'. (I sometimes wonder if perhaps he's projected his own suffereing as a child, which he can't consciously claim, onto her). He talks about her like she is infallible and without any fault yet at the same time he has abused her emotionally and pschologically their entire marriage. I also found out that he cheated on her, as well. Probably serially. i don't understand this dynamic, at all. Can anyone relate to this type of dysfunction? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 My situation with my father was very different than yours in some ways , but I cant help but thinking the cause was similar and the things that helped me cope might help you.Its a long story so ill spare you the details , but at one point in my life and search to cope with abuse from my mother I started studying battered wife syndrome. The way an abusive person treats their kids differs from the way they treat their spouse but is often just as bad if not worse , and the abused spouse in many cases will do anything to hide it from their kids. This becomes even more complicated when the abused is the Male. Example if the wife is physical abusive and the husband defends himself it is he that will get charged and labeled a wife beater , even if he admits to the abuse on her part, which is not likely BTW , he will most likely not be believed. there is little to no support set up for male victims. Unlike female victims , if a man leaves the situation he will not be able to take the kids with him . In BPD spouses this often leads to the father becoming blind to the harm to the kids in order to stay near them , and even more often lends to the father leaving the kids behind in order to save themselves. victims of spousal abuse usually feel deep guilt, and blame the actions of the aggressor on themselves.They have been made to feel as if it is they who are crazy and they " made the abuser do the bad things they do " .I do not want to sound like I am making an excuse for the passive parent , I only know that with me understanding the sense of helplessness my father had been brainwashed into , helped me to forgive him and build , with some work , a great relationship with him. unfortunately there is not allot written on abused males , but looking up info on battered women is a great place to start. > > > > for as long as I can remember my father has talked about my mother to us like she had the most horrible experiences possible (she did have a horrible childhood after losing her mother). But no matter what happened to us nothing about our childhoods mattered because my mother had it worse. Her father was a pedophile who abused her her entire childhood, and also abused my sister and I. The very few times I have talked about this to my father he completely minimizes this happening, saying things like 'your mother had to endure it her entire life, and you just had one or two little incidences " with an air of complete indignance (!!!...for the record even though her father did this my mother still sent my sister and I to stay with him for a week unsupervised, separately, and of course we were assaulted by him). Does anyone else have this excuse making by the fada in the family to invalidate their own suffereing? It's absolutely inane the lengths my father will go to to deny that I and my siblings might have had any pain or suffered at all, during childhood. We are always silenced by his protectiveness of my mother as 'the queen of having suffered'. (I sometimes wonder if perhaps he's projected his own suffereing as a child, which he can't consciously claim, onto her). He talks about her like she is infallible and without any fault yet at the same time he has abused her emotionally and pschologically their entire marriage. I also found out that he cheated on her, as well. Probably serially. i don't understand this dynamic, at all. Can anyone relate to this type of dysfunction? > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 " It's usually much easier to understand that the parent with BPD has faults than it is to come to terms with the fact that the non-BP was never really our hero, and that by remaining passive or dismissive, they played just as much a part in the abuse. " Yep KT that for me has been the hardest to grieve. It finally made me realize that I have always been an orphan. Realizing this, however, has helped to relieve the guilt. > > > > for as long as I can remember my father has talked about my mother to us like she had the most horrible experiences possible (she did have a horrible childhood after losing her mother). But no matter what happened to us nothing about our childhoods mattered because my mother had it worse. Her father was a pedophile who abused her her entire childhood, and also abused my sister and I. The very few times I have talked about this to my father he completely minimizes this happening, saying things like 'your mother had to endure it her entire life, and you just had one or two little incidences " with an air of complete indignance (!!!...for the record even though her father did this my mother still sent my sister and I to stay with him for a week unsupervised, separately, and of course we were assaulted by him). Does anyone else have this excuse making by the fada in the family to invalidate their own suffereing? It's absolutely inane the lengths my father will go to to deny that I and my siblings might have had any pain or suffered at all, during childhood. We are always silenced by his protectiveness of my mother as 'the queen of having suffered'. (I sometimes wonder if perhaps he's projected his own suffereing as a child, which he can't consciously claim, onto her). He talks about her like she is infallible and without any fault yet at the same time he has abused her emotionally and pschologically their entire marriage. I also found out that he cheated on her, as well. Probably serially. i don't understand this dynamic, at all. Can anyone relate to this type of dysfunction? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 I think this is true; it is a huge let down to realize the non-BP parent was never our hero. It is the thing that really made me feel alone and demoralized. When my dad married his second wife, he really *left* our family, (meaning my sister, brother, our kids). And then he died. It was really hard to face. ~patricia Re: fada question " It's usually much easier to understand that the parent with BPD has faults than it is to come to terms with the fact that the non-BP was never really our hero, and that by remaining passive or dismissive, they played just as much a part in the abuse. " Yep KT that for me has been the hardest to grieve. It finally made me realize that I have always been an orphan. Realizing this, however, has helped to relieve the guilt. > > > > for as long as I can remember my father has talked about my mother to us like she had the most horrible experiences possible (she did have a horrible childhood after losing her mother). But no matter what happened to us nothing about our childhoods mattered because my mother had it worse. Her father was a pedophile who abused her her entire childhood, and also abused my sister and I. The very few times I have talked about this to my father he completely minimizes this happening, saying things like 'your mother had to endure it her entire life, and you just had one or two little incidences " with an air of complete indignance (!!!...for the record even though her father did this my mother still sent my sister and I to stay with him for a week unsupervised, separately, and of course we were assaulted by him). Does anyone else have this excuse making by the fada in the family to invalidate their own suffereing? It's absolutely inane the lengths my father will go to to deny that I and my siblings might have had any pain or suffered at all, during childhood. We are always silenced by his protectiveness of my mother as 'the queen of having suffered'. (I sometimes wonder if perhaps he's projected his own suffereing as a child, which he can't consciously claim, onto her). He talks about her like she is infallible and without any fault yet at the same time he has abused her emotionally and pschologically their entire marriage. I also found out that he cheated on her, as well. Probably serially. i don't understand this dynamic, at all. Can anyone relate to this type of dysfunction? > > > ------------------------------------ Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 My father and I had a great relationship my whole life...then he turned on me ( 2 years ago) and started yelling at me when nada did...that's when I realized he never protected me from her...he never stopped her...he just read his paper like nothing was going on when in reality, all hell was breaking loose with her raging, kids screaming and running from her...my respect for him really dropped a LOT then... Jackie " It's usually much easier to understand that the parent with BPD has faults than it is to come to terms with the fact that the non-BP was never really our hero, and that by remaining passive or dismissive, they played just as much a part in the abuse. " Yep KT that for me has been the hardest to grieve. It finally made me realize that I have always been an orphan. Realizing this, however, has helped to relieve the guilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Jackie not only did they not protect us they expected us to partner with them in their codepency. It's no wonder we had to fight to find ourselves. Even now my 90 year old nada expects this behavior from me with my 60 year old sada. I don't comply. > > My father and I had a great relationship my whole life...then he turned > on me ( 2 years ago) and started yelling at me when nada did...that's when I > realized he never protected me from her...he never stopped her...he just > read his paper like nothing was going on when in reality, all hell was > breaking loose with her raging, kids screaming and running from her...my > respect for him really dropped a LOT then... > > Jackie > > > > > " It's usually much easier to understand that the parent with BPD has > faults than it is to come to terms with the fact that the non-BP was never > really our hero, and that by remaining passive or dismissive, they played > just as much a part in the abuse. " > > Yep KT that for me has been the hardest to grieve. It finally made me > realize that I have always been an orphan. Realizing this, however, has > helped to relieve the guilt. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 you're right !!! many times my father would tell me to just go along with whatever nada wanted just to keep the peace....and I did for most of my life, but when I hit my 40's I just couldn't do it any more...and I got tired of nada (who has never taken responsibility for anything she's ever done) tell me I was responsible for my own actions. and if I wanted to fight with her, she's more than willing !! When I refused to comply with whatever nada wanted is when my father started calling me a terrible daughter and they don't know what happened to me ( I got boundaries, that's what !) Jackie Jackie not only did they not protect us they expected us to partner with them in their codepency. It's no wonder we had to fight to find ourselves. Even now my 90 year old nada expects this behavior from me with my 60 year old sada. I don't comply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Hey Jackie, What a slap in the face from your father. My dad let my mom do her thing and never stepped in, never talked to us. He just basically left us with her. And yet I idolized and idealized him. It sort of took me a long time to realize these things and deal with the fact that I pretty much grew up *alone* inside. ~patricia Re: Re: fada question you're right !!! many times my father would tell me to just go along with whatever nada wanted just to keep the peace....and I did for most of my life, but when I hit my 40's I just couldn't do it any more...and I got tired of nada (who has never taken responsibility for anything she's ever done) tell me I was responsible for my own actions. and if I wanted to fight with her, she's more than willing !! When I refused to comply with whatever nada wanted is when my father started calling me a terrible daughter and they don't know what happened to me ( I got boundaries, that's what !) Jackie Jackie not only did they not protect us they expected us to partner with them in their codepency. It's no wonder we had to fight to find ourselves. Even now my 90 year old nada expects this behavior from me with my 60 year old sada. I don't comply. ------------------------------------ Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 in one of our fights, my nada said I was lucky because they were always home...I said physically they were there, but not emotionally....dead silence...then they turned it into how awful I am and that I never did anything for them ( total lies)...sigh...yes, we had to grow up alone as well..the parents were not available emotionally... Jackie Hey Jackie, What a slap in the face from your father. My dad let my mom do her thing and never stepped in, never talked to us. He just basically left us with her. And yet I idolized and idealized him. It sort of took me a long time to realize these things and deal with the fact that I pretty much grew up *alone* inside. ~patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Jackie not to belabor the point but wasn't/isnt it more than going along with them. Aren't we, in fact, expected to change our reality or perception of the events and if we don't we are considered mean and cruel. >e > you're right !!! many times my father would tell me to just go along with > whatever nada wanted just to keep the peace....and I did for most of my > life, but when I hit my 40's I just couldn't do it any more...and I got > tired of nada (who has never taken responsibility for anything she's ever > done) tell me I was responsible for my own actions. and if I wanted to > fight with her, she's more than willing !! When I refused to comply with > whatever nada wanted is when my father started calling me a terrible > daughter and they don't know what happened to me ( I got boundaries, that's > what !) > > > Jackie > > > > Jackie not only did they not protect us they expected us to partner with > them in their codepency. It's no wonder we had to fight to find ourselves. > Even now my 90 year old nada expects this behavior from me with my 60 year > old sada. I don't comply. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 yes, thats exactly it...thats what my father called " going along with her " ...to accept she's right, and everyone else is wrong... Jackie Jackie not to belabor the point but wasn't/isnt it more than going along with them. Aren't we, in fact, expected to change our reality or perception of the events and if we don't we are considered mean and cruel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 I felt the same way. I even stuck up for my father when my mother was after him but never once did he ever stick up for me. Now he's remarried and has shown his true colors by being the crappy father he always was. In some ways, I think my dad is probably just as much BPD as my mother was. In a message dated 6/8/2010 12:47:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, coyotesun1@... writes: Hey Jackie, What a slap in the face from your father. My dad let my mom do her thing and never stepped in, never talked to us. He just basically left us with her. And yet I idolized and idealized him. It sort of took me a long time to realize these things and deal with the fact that I pretty much grew up *alone* inside. ~patricia ----- Original Message ----- From: sleddog To: _WTOAdultChildren1 _ (mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ) Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 12:31 PM Subject: Re: Re: fada question you're right !!! many times my father would tell me to just go along with whatever nada wanted just to keep the peace....and I did for most of my life, but when I hit my 40's I just couldn't do it any more...and I got tired of nada (who has never taken responsibility for anything she's ever done) tell me I was responsible for my own actions. and if I wanted to fight with her, she's more than willing !! When I refused to comply with whatever nada wanted is when my father started calling me a terrible daughter and they don't know what happened to me ( I got boundaries, that's what !) Jackie Jackie not only did they not protect us they expected us to partner with them in their codepency. It's no wonder we had to fight to find ourselves. Even now my 90 year old nada expects this behavior from me with my 60 year old sada. I don't comply. ------------------------------------ Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at _@..._ (mailto:@...) . SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! Groups Links ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2925 - Release Date: 06/08/10 02:35:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 I swear Jackie...we are from the same family. This happened to me too. My mother was constantly telling me that I didn't realize how 'lucky' I was. She took great delight in letting everyone know what a great parent she was. Sickening. Someone else contacted me on facebook the other day from childhood. This is like the third person to tell me my mother was like a 'second' mother to them. It makes me feel like the crazy one. Where was I? What family was I in? Am I making more of this than was there? How did she hide it SO WELL? I don't understand. I truly don't. She told me when she thought of my mother, she imagined her always smiling. OMG. I nearly spewed my diet coke at the computer screen. Where was she when my mother was laying on the floor in some psychotic state screaming the same line over and over again and threatening suicide? My life is a mystery....a secret. It sucks. The outside looked so perfect and yet the inside truth is, it was all anything but. s I hate BPD. In a message dated 6/8/2010 2:13:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sleddog@... writes: in one of our fights, my nada said I was lucky because they were always home...I said physically they were there, but not emotionally....dead silence...then they turned it into how awful I am and that I never did anything for them ( total lies)...sigh...yes, we had to grow up alone as well..the parents were not available emotionally... Jackie Hey Jackie, What a slap in the face from your father. My dad let my mom do her thing and never stepped in, never talked to us. He just basically left us with her. And yet I idolized and idealized him. 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Guest guest Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 My nada always wanted you to agree with her. If you didn't, you were immoral or your ideas were wrong or stupid. What's funny...you could have flat out written proof she was wrong and she'd still deny it. Or she would play victim. Aggravating. In a message dated 6/8/2010 12:03:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, carolwhite398@... writes: Jackie not only did they not protect us they expected us to partner with them in their codepency. It's no wonder we had to fight to find ourselves. Even now my 90 year old nada expects this behavior from me with my 60 year old sada. I don't comply. > > My father and I had a great relationship my whole life...then he turned > on me ( 2 years ago) and started yelling at me when nada did...that's when I > realized he never protected me from her...he never stopped her...he just > read his paper like nothing was going on when in reality, all hell was > breaking loose with her raging, kids screaming and running from her...my > respect for him really dropped a LOT then... > > Jackie > > > > > " It's usually much easier to understand that the parent with BPD has > faults than it is to come to terms with the fact that the non-BP was never > really our hero, and that by remaining passive or dismissive, they played > just as much a part in the abuse. " > > Yep KT that for me has been the hardest to grieve. It finally made me > realize that I have always been an orphan. Realizing this, however, has > helped to relieve the guilt. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 thats sad.... Jackie I felt the same way. I even stuck up for my father when my mother was after him but never once did he ever stick up for me. Now he's remarried and has shown his true colors by being the crappy father he always was. In some ways, I think my dad is probably just as much BPD as my mother was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 it is hard to understand BPD...I had 4 other siblings, and our stories, once we started speaking to each other ( nada always pitted us against each other, so we never liked each other) all matched up !! we all remember the same things happening...and remember how awful nada is..my nada doesn't smile much...and only to outsiders... Jackie I swear Jackie...we are from the same family. This happened to me too. My mother was constantly telling me that I didn't realize how 'lucky' I was. She took great delight in letting everyone know what a great parent she was. Sickening. Someone else contacted me on facebook the other day from childhood. This is like the third person to tell me my mother was like a 'second' mother to them. It makes me feel like the crazy one. Where was I? What family was I in? Am I making more of this than was there? How did she hide it SO WELL? I don't understand. I truly don't. She told me when she thought of my mother, she imagined her always smiling. OMG. I nearly spewed my diet coke at the computer screen. Where was she when my mother was laying on the floor in some psychotic state screaming the same line over and over again and threatening suicide? My life is a mystery....a secret. It sucks. The outside looked so perfect and yet the inside truth is, it was all anything but. s I hate BPD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 yep...I only have 1 sister. My mother pitted us against each other so bad that we didn't even really know each other until 2007 when my mother died. Since she died, we've compared stories and she had told each of us the same things about the other. I can't imagine doing that with my children. ugh. I have 3 kids and I want more than anything for them to be close and to love each other. In a message dated 6/10/2010 10:39:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sleddog@... writes: it is hard to understand BPD...I had 4 other siblings, and our stories, once we started speaking to each other ( nada always pitted us against each other, so we never liked each other) all matched up !! we all remember the same things happening...and remember how awful nada is..my nada doesn't smile much...and only to outsiders... Jackie I swear Jackie...we are from the same family. This happened to me too. My mother was constantly telling me that I didn't realize how 'lucky' I was. She took great delight in letting everyone know what a great parent she was. Sickening. Someone else contacted me on facebook the other day from childhood. This is like the third person to tell me my mother was like a 'second' mother to them. It makes me feel like the crazy one. Where was I? What family was I in? Am I making more of this than was there? How did she hide it SO WELL? I don't understand. I truly don't. She told me when she thought of my mother, she imagined her always smiling. OMG. I nearly spewed my diet coke at the computer screen. Where was she when my mother was laying on the floor in some psychotic state screaming the same line over and over again and threatening suicide? My life is a mystery....a secret. It sucks. The outside looked so perfect and yet the inside truth is, it was all anything but. s I hate BPD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 same as my nada...she's right and the experts on Jeopardy are wrong !! so is the PhD who wrote the book on whatever subject we were discussing...they are wrong, and she is right, and I am a horrible person and hate nada because I'm against her !! Jackie My nada always wanted you to agree with her. If you didn't, you were immoral or your ideas were wrong or stupid. What's funny...you could have flat out written proof she was wrong and she'd still deny it. Or she would play victim. Aggravating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 thats what a NORMAL mother wants, for her kids to be close...and like each other Jackie yep...I only have 1 sister. My mother pitted us against each other so bad that we didn't even really know each other until 2007 when my mother died. Since she died, we've compared stories and she had told each of us the same things about the other. I can't imagine doing that with my children. ugh. I have 3 kids and I want more than anything for them to be close and to love each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 My fada is a complete wimp! he has and always will bow down to my nada. He cooks for her, cleans for her, does the laundry, picks up the dry cleaning and runs errands, cleans the house on weekends and even mows the lawn and does outdoor chores on weekends! When my fada had to commute for work (he's retired now) he would literally be gone 12 hours and my nada STILL expected him to do all those things while my nada just sat down and expected to be waited on like a queen. Anytime he didn't and would complain, my nada would rage and say " SEE!? HE ISN'T HAPPY UNTIL I AM WORKING ALL ALL THE TIME! " my fada never protected me against my nada. He ALWAYS backed her up. And she would always talk about how my fada is a horrible provider and how she ALWAYS thought he was cheating/gambling/etc. The last time my nada raged at me, I turned to look for my nada and he just stood there while she physically and verbally attacked me. That is when I said enough. AJ > > for as long as I can remember my father has talked about my mother to us like she had the most horrible experiences possible (she did have a horrible childhood after losing her mother). But no matter what happened to us nothing about our childhoods mattered because my mother had it worse. Her father was a pedophile who abused her her entire childhood, and also abused my sister and I. The very few times I have talked about this to my father he completely minimizes this happening, saying things like 'your mother had to endure it her entire life, and you just had one or two little incidences " with an air of complete indignance (!!!...for the record even though her father did this my mother still sent my sister and I to stay with him for a week unsupervised, separately, and of course we were assaulted by him). Does anyone else have this excuse making by the fada in the family to invalidate their own suffereing? It's absolutely inane the lengths my father will go to to deny that I and my siblings might have had any pain or suffered at all, during childhood. We are always silenced by his protectiveness of my mother as 'the queen of having suffered'. (I sometimes wonder if perhaps he's projected his own suffereing as a child, which he can't consciously claim, onto her). He talks about her like she is infallible and without any fault yet at the same time he has abused her emotionally and pschologically their entire marriage. I also found out that he cheated on her, as well. Probably serially. i don't understand this dynamic, at all. Can anyone relate to this type of dysfunction? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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