Re: Survival

[Guest guest]

Google Les Stroud. He's a Canadian guy who has a show called " Survivorman "

........ if you're serious that is . LOL

I suppose all of us KO's could easily hold the title " Survivorman " LOL

>

> So I get really nervous around people. Especially if I feel I'm dependent on

them for something. I think the only way I'll ever feel independent is if I go

and survive in the wilderness for a year or something like that. Any one know

any good wilderness survival trainers?

>

[Guest guest]

,

Have you brought this up with your T? Could be that you would be encouraging

your natural KO bent toward distrust of others by following that desire.

From my own experience, it's been hard to learn to trust others enough to depend

on them without feeling anxious or even a little panicky, like I wasn't doing

enough. Have been discovering that sometimes it's even a good thing to depend on

others, as they become fulfilled by helping you, and it encourages bonds to

form.

Both my cents, for considering the other side of the coin,

Tina

> >

> > So I get really nervous around people. Especially if I feel I'm dependent

on them for something. I think the only way I'll ever feel independent is if I

go and survive in the wilderness for a year or something like that. Any one

know any good wilderness survival trainers?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have much difficulty trusting others. Sure I go through the motions of

what a trusting person does, but it makes me feel very unsafe, and anxious.

It's the dependency I feel on those I trust which feels unsafe. If I was

confident in my abilities to survive on my own then my decision to trust

others would not feel forced out of helplessness

>

>

> ,

>

> Have you brought this up with your T? Could be that you would be

> encouraging your natural KO bent toward distrust of others by following that

> desire.

>

> From my own experience, it's been hard to learn to trust others enough to

> depend on them without feeling anxious or even a little panicky, like I

> wasn't doing enough. Have been discovering that sometimes it's even a good

> thing to depend on others, as they become fulfilled by helping you, and it

> encourages bonds to form.

>

> Both my cents, for considering the other side of the coin,

> Tina

>

>

>

> > >

> > > So I get really nervous around people. Especially if I feel I'm

> dependent on them for something. I think the only way I'll ever feel

> independent is if I go and survive in the wilderness for a year or something

> like that. Any one know any good wilderness survival trainers?

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know of any trainers, but there are lots of programs (google) that train

you in a group and lead up to a period of time spent alone in the wilderness.

Otherwise... I get nervous when I'm dependent on someone else too. I hate when

my nutritionist says, " you can owe me $10 next time " if she doesn't have change

for a $20. I hate that I have to get rides from people to get to work. I hate

that I have to rely on financial aid and some administrator to pay for college.

I hate knowing that things are not in my control and feeling like my life could

change at any moment without my voice being heard. Why? Because that's what

growing up with Nada was like. If she wanted me to change schools (Switzerland

to Upstate New York), I'd switch schools. If she wanted to move across the

country against my will, we'd move. If she threatened to stop paying for school,

well, that was it.

I learned NEVER to trust anyone except myself. I wanted to be 100% self-reliant.

But that's really hard to do. I can, and HAVE, done it, but life is more

enjoyable when I trust that my ride will show up every morning, for example.

Many KOs suffer from trauma (check out C-PTSD and, if you feel up to it, Judith

Herman's book *Trauma and Recovery*). Traumatized people have often been forced

into feeling and/or being helpless—they've unwillingly lost control of

themselves and/or been controlled by another person. After that, it's hard to

trust anyone. But things aren't black and white. It's not: have 100% control of

yourself (being super independent) or go back to being at Nada/Fada's beck and

call (being dependent on them/ being helpless).

Part of the healing process is reintegrating in your community: trusting people.

I could be barking up the wrong tree, and I apologize in advance if I am. I have

to wonder, what happens when you get back from the wilderness? How do you think

you will feel 100% on your own out there? How do you expect those feelings to

function in civilian lie when you come back? Are you running away from something

in particular? Something that reminds you of how you felt with your BP?

Again, I'm really really sorry if I've entirely missed the mark. I know that

I've tried going on wilderness programs to escape Nada (while I was still in

high school and underage). I hoped that those skills would serve me if/when I

ran away.

-Frances

>

> So I get really nervous around people. Especially if I feel I'm dependent on

them for something. I think the only way I'll ever feel independent is if I go

and survive in the wilderness for a year or something like that. Any one know

any good wilderness survival trainers?

>

[Guest guest]

What I'm saying is kind of subtle. Let me try again. I go through the

motions of trusting other people, because I HAVE to in order to survive in

this world. It's not really much of choice is it? If I knew I could

survive on my own, then I could CHOOSE to trust others.

Currently, my choices are " trust others " or " don't survive " . If I

could survive on my own, my I could choose to " trust others " but if I didn't

choose to trust others, I would feel safe since I know I could still

survive.

>

>

> I don't know of any trainers, but there are lots of programs (google) that

> train you in a group and lead up to a period of time spent alone in the

> wilderness.

>

> Otherwise... I get nervous when I'm dependent on someone else too. I hate

> when my nutritionist says, " you can owe me $10 next time " if she doesn't

> have change for a $20. I hate that I have to get rides from people to get to

> work. I hate that I have to rely on financial aid and some administrator to

> pay for college.

>

> I hate knowing that things are not in my control and feeling like my life

> could change at any moment without my voice being heard. Why? Because that's

> what growing up with Nada was like. If she wanted me to change schools

> (Switzerland to Upstate New York), I'd switch schools. If she wanted to move

> across the country against my will, we'd move. If she threatened to stop

> paying for school, well, that was it.

>

> I learned NEVER to trust anyone except myself. I wanted to be 100%

> self-reliant. But that's really hard to do. I can, and HAVE, done it, but

> life is more enjoyable when I trust that my ride will show up every morning,

> for example.

>

> Many KOs suffer from trauma (check out C-PTSD and, if you feel up to it,

> Judith Herman's book *Trauma and Recovery*). Traumatized people have often

> been forced into feeling and/or being helpless—they've unwillingly lost

> control of themselves and/or been controlled by another person. After that,

> it's hard to trust anyone. But things aren't black and white. It's not: have

> 100% control of yourself (being super independent) or go back to being at

> Nada/Fada's beck and call (being dependent on them/ being helpless).

>

> Part of the healing process is reintegrating in your community: trusting

> people. I could be barking up the wrong tree, and I apologize in advance if

> I am. I have to wonder, what happens when you get back from the wilderness?

> How do you think you will feel 100% on your own out there? How do you expect

> those feelings to function in civilian lie when you come back? Are you

> running away from something in particular? Something that reminds you of how

> you felt with your BP?

>

> Again, I'm really really sorry if I've entirely missed the mark. I know

> that I've tried going on wilderness programs to escape Nada (while I was

> still in high school and underage). I hoped that those skills would serve me

> if/when I ran away.

>

> -Frances

>

>

>

> >

> > So I get really nervous around people. Especially if I feel I'm dependent

> on them for something. I think the only way I'll ever feel independent is if

> I go and survive in the wilderness for a year or something like that. Any

> one know any good wilderness survival trainers?

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

So what about the people you choose to trust? Do they prove trustworthy? Or are

you looking to rid yourself of that uneasy feeling altogether?

It's uneasy for me to this day to rely on someone for the first time. But I tend

to be really selective about the people I decide to try that with. And sometimes

people still let you down.

Your idea is an interesting one. I'm curious about how your survival experience

will change things for you. Keep us posted?

Tina

> > > >

> > > > So I get really nervous around people. Especially if I feel I'm

> > dependent on them for something. I think the only way I'll ever feel

> > independent is if I go and survive in the wilderness for a year or something

> > like that. Any one know any good wilderness survival trainers?

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I get is ,

This is an interesting idea and I like it. There's another aspect you might want

to consider on your wilderness adventure.

I have discovered something spiritually profound when I am with nature and

alone. I love to spend time away from others, deep in the forest or near a lake.

There's something calming and divine about that time.

North American natives used to do something called a 'vision quest' there's

lot's of reading material available if you want to research it. As a rite of

passage, a young person would go out in the wilderness on their own for a few

days and be forced to survive on their own. Upon their return from the vision

quest they would be considered an adult within their community based on the

spiritual experiences of their vision quest... a new life direction. This is

just the brief Wiki explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_quest

one of my favourite quotes is:

" The best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them. " -

Hemingway

[Guest guest]

- I understand exactly what you're saying - and so did Thoreau. With or

without a KO upbringing, I have long believed that learning to exist with few

material possessions, in a wilderness environment, is a wonderful way for a

young person (anybody, really, but younger people especially) to get in touch

with their own minds and souls. " Existing in the wilderness with few material

possessions " is basically backpacking or back-country camping. There are loads

of ways to learn to do this. Staying safe and happy in the woods with only what

you carry on your back is an exercise in planning, confidence, and

skill-building. I urge you or anyone else who is able to do so to get outdoors,

go to the mountains or canoe down a river, and spend some time getting to know

what you're like when life's distractions have been put aside.

I seem to recall that you're pretty young, and I'm assuming you're in good

physical condition, so here are some fast options:

If you have a lot of money, NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School) is the

" blue ribbon " program that takes untrained students - adolescent to adult -

either troubled or not - and challenges them in wilderness settings. You'll

never be the same - but this is not for couch potatoes.

If you're doing this on a shoestring, here are other options:

If you're a college student, contact your recreation center on campus. They run

or connect with outdoor excursions for enrolled students, and by reading their

bulletin board, you can get the names of liveries and services that run canoe

trips, rock climbing lessons, etc.

If you're under 21, look for a local Venturing unit. This coed Boy Scout

program is for people aged 14-21, has chapters on campuses as well as in

communities, and is pretty much self-led with very little adult control (but

does adhere to Scouting ethics, so everyone is expected to behave themselves).

They do high-adventure activities as well as community service projects. It

would be a great way to meet like-minded people and there will be some very

experienced Scouts in the unit who can teach you everything you need to know, as

well as lend you some gear. If you're too old to be a Scout (over 18) but under

21, this is one way to access the fantastic outdoor resources that Scouting

offers.

Speaking of which - don't start buying high-end gear until you know you're going

to do a lot of backpacking or camping. You can use some stuff you already have

at home, borrow some other stuff (especially if you work through a campus or

Venturing group that has a sponsor and a " quartermaster's room " full of old gear

to lend), and you can rent other stuff - REI (Recreational Equipment, Inc.) has

a rental program and is a whole other world of high-end gear. You should invest

in some decent hiking boots if you're headed to the back country. Those will be

useful for general hiking or work around the house, and good boots will last for

years. Everything else is negotiable, but you don't want your boots letting you

down on the trail.

If you do decide to do this and want to discuss the skill set, there are lots of

on-line backpacking camping sites to help you get started.

> > >

> > > So I get really nervous around people. Especially if I feel I'm dependent

> > on them for something. I think the only way I'll ever feel independent is if

> > I go and survive in the wilderness for a year or something like that. Any

> > one know any good wilderness survival trainers?

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What are you counting on these people for exactly? Physical, financial? The

need to be interconnected with other people is basic to being human. And it's

one of the biggest tragedies of growing up a KO that that aspect of being human

becomes something fearful. I mean if you can't count on your mother from

earleist memory who can you count on?

> > > >

> > > > So I get really nervous around people. Especially if I feel I'm

> > dependent on them for something. I think the only way I'll ever feel

> > independent is if I go and survive in the wilderness for a year or something

> > like that. Any one know any good wilderness survival trainers?

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Why not set up a bucket list?

I think what you are describing here is based on self confidence and self

esteem. By trying new things (sky diving, mountain climbing, running a marathon

etc) you build confidence in yourself. Also, but itemizing the things in your

life that you've accomplished and truly CONGRATULATING yourself for doing them,

in SPITE of your families dear wish that you fail miseribly into a giant ball of

flaming poo.

I have to remind myself to do this occasionally when I get down on myself. Think

about it.

Heres mine:

I was working FT at 14, paying rent and going to high school full time. Still

had decent marks when graduating HS.

Started working in retail, worked my way into other jobs and eventually became

an office manager for a group of psychologists...

went on to get a degree...

been to europe twice....

started a business, have doubled sales every year in the last three years....

Overcame depression, suicidal tendencies, infertility (which I beleive was

partly psychological), poor self esteem and non existant self confidence.

But until the last few years, I didn't think these were big deals. Mostly

because my parents told me so. Even though they don't have a degree, never been

to europe or started a business. Funny how life works.

Now, I'm onto my next challenge, loosing weight and becoming awesomely

physically fit. I ran my first 5K last year. I called my dad, all excited....he

didnt give a shit. This was a BIG deal for me, and his reaction was pathetic.

THIS is my FUCK YOU to them.

Whats yours?

>

> So I get really nervous around people. Especially if I feel I'm dependent on

them for something. I think the only way I'll ever feel independent is if I go

and survive in the wilderness for a year or something like that. Any one know

any good wilderness survival trainers?

>

[Guest guest]

hey jennifer!! what a great idea!! living well is the best revenge as they say:

here's mine,

graduated h.s. with honors despite suicidal depression my sophomore year.. 

graduated college despite a break down inbetween years where i was hospitalized

with psychotic depression.

survived divorce and lived on my own despite parental programing that said

'trust no one'.. (i got some therapy and group help at last!)

found meaningful work volunteering at a crisis counseling hotline (first time i

ever enjoyed work in my life)..

became able to go off anti-depressant meds and be able to have a stable mood,

with the 'blues' now and then.

live a 'normal' life of love and work (with a flawed but lovable partner of many

years).. with relative contentment and even times of joy.  and a circle of

friends to enjoy life with.

... this may not seem like anything very spectacular to many people, but to me..

it's a dream come true.. and something my nada and fada would have never have

allowed, if i had let them.. for to them i would never had a 'self ' or a life

of my own at all.  and so it is as if my wildest dream has come true.

all this has *not been easy* by any means!  but well worth every ounce of the

struggle.. and my misery could have been refunded at any time had i decided to

give up on myself.

good luck to you all on your own journeys toward healing and your own bucket

lists.. 

ann

Subject: Re: Survival

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Friday, June 11, 2010, 8:49 AM

 

Why not set up a bucket list?

I think what you are describing here is based on self confidence and self

esteem. By trying new things (sky diving, mountain climbing, running a marathon

etc) you build confidence in yourself. Also, but itemizing the things in your

life that you've accomplished and truly CONGRATULATING yourself for doing them,

in SPITE of your families dear wish that you fail miseribly into a giant ball of

flaming poo.

I have to remind myself to do this occasionally when I get down on myself. Think

about it.

Heres mine:

I was working FT at 14, paying rent and going to high school full time. Still

had decent marks when graduating HS.

Started working in retail, worked my way into other jobs and eventually became

an office manager for a group of psychologists...

went on to get a degree...

been to europe twice....

started a business, have doubled sales every year in the last three years....

Overcame depression, suicidal tendencies, infertility (which I beleive was

partly psychological), poor self esteem and non existant self confidence.

But until the last few years, I didn't think these were big deals. Mostly

because my parents told me so. Even though they don't have a degree, never been

to europe or started a business. Funny how life works.

Now, I'm onto my next challenge, loosing weight and becoming awesomely

physically fit. I ran my first 5K last year. I called my dad, all excited....he

didnt give a shit. This was a BIG deal for me, and his reaction was pathetic.

THIS is my FUCK YOU to them.

Whats yours?

>

> So I get really nervous around people. Especially if I feel I'm dependent on

them for something. I think the only way I'll ever feel independent is if I go

and survive in the wilderness for a year or something like that. Any one know

any good wilderness survival trainers?

>