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Re: At the end of my rope... (sorry this is long)

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Arianna, you are in a truly hellish situation and I'm so sorry you are going

through this. I am an only child too who feels very stuck in a situation that

becomes increasingly difficult as time moves on though the dynamics are a bit

different in our two cases. Still I know what it is to feel that you can't take

it anymore and something has to change.

The huge thing that jumps out at me is that you are treating your mother as if

her thoughts, responses to you, physical symptoms, and feelings are all valid.

They aren't - she's mentally ill. Nothing she says, does, thinks or feels can

be treated as an accurate reflection of you or necessarily of reality. I know

that sounds pretty harsh but as long as we give them that level of validity the

dance still continues. I know that when I get completely spinning and reacting

in my mind to my FOO it is because I am treating what they put out there as

valid and something I must respond to. But that's not always true...

You've got some incredible things going for you - a husband who knows about your

mother and is willing to work with you on it, kids who are beams of sunshine :),

and progressing career in medical school. The future's so bright you've gotta

wear shades...unless you let your nada block out the sun. Now me, it often

bugs me when people use the word " let " because sometimes there's no " let " about

it. It's up to you to know how much is up to you to allow.

Also you have a recording demonstarting her craziness you can play for a

therapist. I would suggest doing that right away - might really help. Just a

technical question but how were you able to make that recording?

One other thought too - it sounds like she's verbally abusing you frequently and

openly. You have the right to defend yourself. And also a duty to protect your

kids from her. What will you lose, what do you fear if you go LC or NC as she's

already making your life hell?

Whatever you do good luck,

>

> Here I am sitting crying tonight. I am at my wits end. I sit here wondering

about what terrible thing I must have done in my life to deserve this madness

and pain. I am going to go LC, I just can't take it any longer. I am at the

point where I would go NC, except it will be only on my end since my conscience

is just not releasing me completely and I know I won't be able to ignore a call

or email if she contacts me. I am an only child and she has managed to alienate

just about everyone, so I can't abandon her completely.

>

> Those of you who were kind enough to read some of my posts and have amazing

memories might recall that last December there was high drama surrounding my

mother's health. Three days before my finals began (as a first semester medical

student) she told me that she had just gotten back from the hospital ER where

she had taken herself at the insistence of some friends (she had been having

some chest pains). As you may imagine, I was a bad daughter for not even knowing

that she had gone to the hospital, but that's just a minor issue. At the ER they

had found nothing wrong with her heart, but the X-ray they took of her showed a

tiny lesion on her lung, which could have been a tumor. This news was very

upsetting and stressful, especially during finals week. My mind kept running

through various scenarios, one gloomier than the next, non-stop. The kids and I

went to visit her during winter break (a weak after finals), and she seemed

perfectly fine. She had plenty of energy and anger to berate me on a daily

basis. The doctors told her that she should get a follow-up scan in 6 months

(this May) to check and see if this was a tumor, in which case the next step

would be a biopsy.

>

> Throughout the spring semester the berating, badgering, name-calling continued

with regularity. In fact, her BPD seemed to be flaring up progressively. Over

the past few months she has been single-mindedly obsessed with my father and all

the ways in which he (with the help of my grandparents, HER parents) has

" programmed " me on a " cellular level " to continue abusing and killing her even

after his death (he committed suicide 15 years ago). My father was physically

abusive, which I cannot and will not excuse. She was verbally abusive and at

times tried to reciprocate the physical abuse as well, which still does not

excuse his behavior, but certainly does not make her a completely innocent

victim either. He was an alcoholic with a horribly painful past. She was someone

with a painful past herself – her father and uncle were classic cases of NPD (my

grandfather, who is still alive, is really a textbook example and his brother

was worse), while her mother took out all her frustrations with her husband out

on her kids by beating them. I have tried, I have tried so hard to be kind and

understanding. I have forgiven my parents for the pain they have heaped upon me,

for unleashing their combined misery in my young and innocent life. Despite

this, I am still a horrible person. I am the world's most ungrateful daughter. I

am ruthless and callous. I have no empathy. How can I pretend that I am going to

be a doctor and care for people when I don't even care about my own mother, who

has been THE " greatest mother in the world " . How could I " use " my mother

throughout my childhood only to shatter all her " hopes and dreams " when I grew

up. I have ruined my mother's life and health, and now I am trying to " kill " her

by making her angry and giving her a heart attack.

>

> So, in the final 2 weeks of school this spring semester, culminating in 4

exams, one of which was a comprehensive exam covering all the material we have

learned over the past year, my mother's health problems flared up again. She was

feeling horribly, her heart was aching, her chest was aching, her arm was going

numb, she had vertigo and she was losing consciousness several times a day,

according to what she told me. She would be on the phone with me and then she

would become quiet for a minute and I would call out, then she would come back

and say " I just passed out again " . I was a COMPLETE basketcase. I was under so

much stress and pressure academically (I don't mean to sound full-of-myself, and

when people used to tell me that there is no schooling as rigorous as medical

school, I thought they were exaggerating, but I have come to find out that they

weren't – I studied pretty serious disciplines as an undergrad (biochem and

computer science) and I got a master's degree from a top 10 program in the

country, but NOTHING compares to medical school – the sheer volume of stuff you

have to learn, understand, remember then regurgitate and APPLY on an exam is

breathtaking). The situation with her health started pushing me over the edge.

Although, I would catch her off guard sometimes (when I would call and she would

be on the other line with someone and she'd switch over sounding very strong and

chipper, then suddenly assume her " frail old lady " voice as soon as she realized

I was on the line), and a part of me wondered how much of her illness was

psychological/psychosomatic, I still couldn't disregard it, not even one little

bit. Part of this has to do with the fact that I never saw the signs and never

anticipated my father's suicide, so ever since then I always choose to err on

the side of caution. I would rather be overly concerned and find out there's

nothing serious, then the opposite.

>

> I found a good cardiologist and finally convinced her to go see him during the

last few days of school. They checked her and said that she might have a murmur

(I have had a murmur my whole life, and have had intermittent mild heart

problems throughout my life, so it didn't shock me too much). Regardless of my

comfort level with my own heart problems, any real heart problem she may have is

still very worrisome to me (first, because it appears as something new, and

second, because she is 60), but what is more worrisome to me is the situation

with her lung. She has yet to get the follow-up CT, I think. Although, she is

refusing to tell me when she is planning to get it, or even if she has already

gotten it. She has said several times that she is a poor, used, discarded

servant and nobody is there to care for her and take her to the doctor (mind

you, despite all her real or imagined health problems, she just planted 20 trees

in her yard a week ago and she can still muster up enough energy to go off on me

for 30 minutes without taking a single deep breath, not to mention that she is a

retire (by her choice) university professor and perfectly spry and capable of

driving herself to the doctor). Over the last couple of weeks she has also told

me in NO uncertain terms that she will not tell me anything about the medical

findings from this point on. Today, she made it clear that it was " payback " for

the secrets I have kept from her – she is trying to show me how it feels to be

" in the dark " (never mind the fact that the only reason I ever kept secrets from

her is that the smallest thing could make her become unhinged and completely

lose it, and every time she would plow full force into me I would find myself on

the brink of suicidal thoughts). Furthermore, the condition for her to " share "

her life with me is for me to " get rid of " my husband. As long as he is in my

life, she will not share anything with me from now on.

>

> Going back to the day after my last exam (May 15), I called her in the morning

and asked her how she was. Her response: " Perfectly fine, never better! " I was

relieved and irate at the same time. She had been playing the frail little old

lady card on me for two weeks, almost derailing my exams, and then she was

suddenly " perfect " ?

>

> What is ironic is that she claims that I make her angry without regard to her

heart issues, but never mind that I have had heart problems since the age of 4

and she has never once remembered them during her rages (only afterwards she

would sometimes become contrite when she saw how bad a shape I was in, on the

few occasions when I would become so ill that it would make me hysterical and I

would turn blue during her rages). Not to mention that she has no consideration

for my stress level during as important a time in my life as year-end exams.

>

> Things were a little bit better in the second half of May, but then at the end

she began spiraling down again. I knew it was coming. The anniversary of my

aunt's (her sister's) death was this week and she has ZERO emotional regulation,

she has absolutely never been able to handle death. Last week she was

practically starving herself and sounding (at least on the phone with me) like

she was two breaths away from passing out (or even away!) any minute. At the end

of last week she got a call from the cardiologist regarding some test (which she

has not revealed to me) they had done – they had the results and needed to

discuss them with her in person. I got more worried, but she was bullying me

still and I was trying not to get sucked into the vortex. Then last Saturday, I

talked to her, and while the conversation itself was terrible (I actually

recorded that conversation and I am glad I did, because at one point I literally

thought maybe I was going CRAZY, because of the illogical things she was saying

- up was down and down was up, I had to go back and listen to the recording

later to be reassured that I hadn't lost it, and I was being perfectly

logical!), what got to me was the fact that she had a bit of a cough. I wasn't

sure if she had a bit of a cold or allergies, but I couldn't help wondering if

it was something with her lung. I had a very fitful night Saturday/Sunday and

barely slept.

>

> On Sunday, I caved to my inner softness, called her up and offered to bring my

kids to spend part of their summer vacation with her (they won't finish school

for another week). She perked up immediately, which I had expected. I know she

is really depressed about her sister and I know she is missing my kids

(somewhere amid the BPD madness there is also a fierce, though often twisted,

love, and I know she loves my kids more than life itself, in her own way), so I

was hoping that spending time with the kids would get her past this tough

junction. She told me that she would pay for the kids' plane tickets but NOT for

mine (my mother is wealthy, not Wall Street CEO filthy rich, but very wealthy,

while I am in a totally impecunious state, burdened by massive student loans).

Her reason: if it weren't for my husband being in my life (and in my home), she

would come to MY house, then she could take the kids on a nice vacation to

Florida, California and the Grand Canyon and I wouldn't have to spend any money,

but she'll be damned if she will spend a penny to accommodate my bad life

choices and him. I wouldn't be able to go on vacation with them because school

starts again in July for me, so I would basically take a weekend trip to drop

off the kids with her. I asked her if she felt physically well enough for such

vigorous vacation plans and she insisted that she was fine, and if she felt

unwell she would immediately buy tickets for me to come pick up the kids from

wherever they would be with her. Things seemed to be looking up (never mind the

fact that I was going to have to shell out around $600 for my ticket, I was

willing to do that, to give her a chance to enjoy part of her summer in the

company of my kids – who really are walking rays of sunshine, although I may be

biased in my assessment!

>

> I told the kids about these plans on Sunday and they have been excited. Then

for the past 3 days, I tried to pin down some dates with her and work out a good

itinerary. I offered to fly the kids to Orlando (since she was planning to take

them to Disney World, the new Harry Potter park, etc.), then I asked her for a

date (or at least a range) when she would be willing/able to bring them back. My

husband will not be living at home at the end of the summer (we had to move for

me to go to med school and he gave up a great job to support me during this

first year, we had hoped that he would find a job near my school, but so far he

has been unsuccessful locally, and we are barely holding our finances together,

so he will be moving for a new job in August). This whole time she has been

hammering on the fact that she " CANNOT " come to my home to see me or pick up my

kids as long as " HE is there " , since it will cause her to " have a massive heart

attack and die on the spot " . Well, I kept telling her that he would not be here

in August, so she can come bring the kids and stay for a visit. That is not good

enough – as long as he is still in my life then " it is just a charade " . She

refuses to " be kept in a small compartment " in my life (it is not my husband or

I who have a problem with her coming to visit, she can come and go ANY time, he

is even willing to make himself very scarce when she is around (which he has

done in the past)), since this is simply the " continuation of [my] father's

plan " (remember that my father killed himself 15 years ago!). He wanted her to

" be a servant and raise his child " and then " throw her out " of my life, and I

have completed his plan! He was " constantly brainwashing " me and " excluding " her

from my life and HE is the reason why I do not love and respect her. She has

always served everyone, she has been victimized, she has suffered, she has moved

mountains to give me the life of a princess (this would be funny if it weren't

so horribly tragic and I would laugh if I weren't feeling like howling right

now!), and then she has been cast aside because of my father's (the evil

mastermind!) plan to eliminate her from my life. Btw, she is all about personal

responsibility until it becomes about her.

>

> I forgot to mention that during our recorded conversation last Saturday she

told me that unless I was going to admit, accept and declare repeatedly that she

is the world's most amazing mother, I don't deserve for her to speak to me.

>

> So, my kids talked to her on Monday and my sweet older son drafted a wonderful

itinerary for their vacation. He worked on it for two evenings and emailed it to

her last night. Yesterday evening I made a bunch of reservations and put tickets

on hold. The reservations expired before I could get a straight answer from her

about her preferred dates. So I spent another hour making more reservations this

evening and putting more tickets on hold. Finally, as I was finalizing

everything and getting ready to start purchasing the tickets, she lost it. She

called me every name under the sun – I am a base and venal person, I don't love

her, I have never loved her, I have never respected her, I have never treated

her like a mother, if I were capable of honest reflection then I would know that

she is obviously right, but since I am too blinded and brainwashed to see the

truth I will continue to abuse her, I am a terrible mother compared to her, I am

a ruthless, heartless person devoid of empathy, how can I even think about being

a doctor, I wouldn't care if she had a heart attack and died right now while

talking to me, I probably wouldn't even think about it, I was continuing my

father's abuse of her, I owe her everything and she did everything for me and

sacrificed her life and I am a heartless ingrate, etc. etc.

>

> At this point, my own heart started acting up (I get really bad palpitations

when I am under a lot of stress, my heart starts beating very erratically, this

is not something I openly share with people (except for this wonderful group of

strangers on the internet!), but my mother (along with my husband and my 2 best

friends) knows this about me – she was there when I was a candidate for OPEN

HEART SURGERY at age 5, thankfully I was treated and was able to recover from

the more major issues without needing the surgery! I told her that since I was

such a terrible person and basically replacement of my father in her life it

would be best for us to stop the conversation at this point. She hung up, then

called back and yelled at me 3-4 more times (and hung up each time after she was

done berating me). She hasn't called in the last 30 minutes or so (I had to

interrupt this LONG post several times to answer her calls)… and I am hoping she

won't call any more (at least not tonight, please!).

>

> I am tired, I am spent, I am done… I can't keep spinning in this mad vortex

and continue to meet the demands of my own life. I am finally so close to

achieving my dream (I have wanted to be a doctor since I was 4! and amidst all

the drama and trauma, I got so hopelessly derailed that there were times I

thought I would never get to this point). I just finished my first year in

medical school, I have a chance to be who I have been born to be (I know it

sounds cheesy, but I have always felt like medicine is my calling, I know even

most (if not all) of my classmates think that " medicine as a calling " is such a

crazy, " quaint " , idealistic notion, but I do think it is a calling – being able

to put the needs and the well-being of others, most often complete strangers,

above your own, to serve them in their most challenging hour, to hold the

responsibility and the privilege of guarding someone else's health and life, is

deeply meaningful to me). I want to do this for myself, I also want to do this

for my children. I have 3 more years before getting my M.D. and getting my first

job as a resident doctor. I have never been this close and I don't even want to

consider the possibility of not getting there.

>

> I know I am already feeling guilty about the fact that I am contemplating the

decision to stop contacting her. I know she will use that decision to skewer me

– she will paint and see me as heartless, abandoning her especially when she is

having health problems. She will never let me forget it or live it down. I can

already feel my resolve weakening and I know I will probably not be able to go

more than a few weeks without finally breaking down and calling her. I also

don't know what to tell my kids. I feel terrible about setting them up for such

disappointment about this vacation (I just can't put any more energy into making

it happen), I wish I hadn't told them about the plan until I knew for sure

(tickets purchased!) that it was going to happen. I don't know where and how to

guide their relationship with their grandmother. I know I will answer her calls

and I will acknowledge her emails. I am also feeling so much grief at the

realization that my relationship with my mother is never going to be healthy. I

miss her and I love her and I want to be happy with her. I want her to love me

more than she hates my husband. I want her to love me more than she hates my

father. I want her to STOP, stop living in the past, stop assuming and relishing

the victim role, stop being so destructively (and self-destructively!)

self-centered. I want her to stop finding fault with everyone and everything. I

want her to learn to forgive and FORGET. I want her to see the world in all its

shades of gray. I want her to stop thinking that it is OK for her to insult

everyone else and to stop walking around with the assumption that everyone

offends, slights, demeans and disrespects her. I want her to stop fixating on

assumptions and wild theories and convincing herself that they are true by

repeating them incessantly (e.g., " your father has programmed you on a cellular

level to hate me " ). And this list can go on and on… but I know none of these

changes will happen, the ugly monster that is BPD is never going to let her go

and is never going to stop torturing her (I know she is tortured and miserable)

and me. I feel so stuck – I don't know how to fix this, I don't know how to live

with this and I don't know how to get out of it.

>

> For me things are complicated by the fact that I am an only child, and even

more complicated by the fact that I lost my father so tragically (yes, I know

there was nothing I could have done, but knowing and feeling are two different

things), and I feel like my mother knows that she can exploit these weaknesses

of mine.

>

> For a couple of years things seemed to be getting better for me (and even for

my mother I think too, objectively, based on other people's observations) –

after I figured out that I wasn't crazy, that the madness was real and even had

a 3-letter acronym, after I read books and joined this group, after I learned

how to set at least a few small but firm boundaries, I felt like I had finally

emerged from a dark and scary place, I felt like I had a handle on things, I was

managing, I was coping, I had even found peace with most of it, but during this

past year things have been spiraling towards the abyss again. I am exhausted, I

can't do this any longer. I have spent 30 years of my life living under

continued emotional and psychological stress and strain… I can't do it any

longer, I am at my wit's end.

>

> Thank you for letting me vent. If you have read this far, thank you, thank

you, for your patience and kindness. I am sorry I rambled on for so long.

>

> Arianna

>

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Ok STOP.

Why are you letting this woman making your life hell?

Don't you matter?

You have a dream, and she's fucking it up.

That is NOT love. Thats abuse and control.

There comes a time where you will say to yourself..if the house was on

fire...would she take time to help us (me, the kids etc) or would she happily

let it burn gleefully anticipating the attention that this will bring.

I went NC one time because she started her shit during my exams, finals in fact

and I had a baby at home. I did NOT need that stress.

>

> Here I am sitting crying tonight. I am at my wits end. I sit here wondering

about what terrible thing I must have done in my life to deserve this madness

and pain. I am going to go LC, I just can't take it any longer. I am at the

point where I would go NC, except it will be only on my end since my conscience

is just not releasing me completely and I know I won't be able to ignore a call

or email if she contacts me. I am an only child and she has managed to alienate

just about everyone, so I can't abandon her completely.

>

> Those of you who were kind enough to read some of my posts and have amazing

memories might recall that last December there was high drama surrounding my

mother's health. Three days before my finals began (as a first semester medical

student) she told me that she had just gotten back from the hospital ER where

she had taken herself at the insistence of some friends (she had been having

some chest pains). As you may imagine, I was a bad daughter for not even knowing

that she had gone to the hospital, but that's just a minor issue. At the ER they

had found nothing wrong with her heart, but the X-ray they took of her showed a

tiny lesion on her lung, which could have been a tumor. This news was very

upsetting and stressful, especially during finals week. My mind kept running

through various scenarios, one gloomier than the next, non-stop. The kids and I

went to visit her during winter break (a weak after finals), and she seemed

perfectly fine. She had plenty of energy and anger to berate me on a daily

basis. The doctors told her that she should get a follow-up scan in 6 months

(this May) to check and see if this was a tumor, in which case the next step

would be a biopsy.

>

> Throughout the spring semester the berating, badgering, name-calling continued

with regularity. In fact, her BPD seemed to be flaring up progressively. Over

the past few months she has been single-mindedly obsessed with my father and all

the ways in which he (with the help of my grandparents, HER parents) has

" programmed " me on a " cellular level " to continue abusing and killing her even

after his death (he committed suicide 15 years ago). My father was physically

abusive, which I cannot and will not excuse. She was verbally abusive and at

times tried to reciprocate the physical abuse as well, which still does not

excuse his behavior, but certainly does not make her a completely innocent

victim either. He was an alcoholic with a horribly painful past. She was someone

with a painful past herself – her father and uncle were classic cases of NPD (my

grandfather, who is still alive, is really a textbook example and his brother

was worse), while her mother took out all her frustrations with her husband out

on her kids by beating them. I have tried, I have tried so hard to be kind and

understanding. I have forgiven my parents for the pain they have heaped upon me,

for unleashing their combined misery in my young and innocent life. Despite

this, I am still a horrible person. I am the world's most ungrateful daughter. I

am ruthless and callous. I have no empathy. How can I pretend that I am going to

be a doctor and care for people when I don't even care about my own mother, who

has been THE " greatest mother in the world " . How could I " use " my mother

throughout my childhood only to shatter all her " hopes and dreams " when I grew

up. I have ruined my mother's life and health, and now I am trying to " kill " her

by making her angry and giving her a heart attack.

>

> So, in the final 2 weeks of school this spring semester, culminating in 4

exams, one of which was a comprehensive exam covering all the material we have

learned over the past year, my mother's health problems flared up again. She was

feeling horribly, her heart was aching, her chest was aching, her arm was going

numb, she had vertigo and she was losing consciousness several times a day,

according to what she told me. She would be on the phone with me and then she

would become quiet for a minute and I would call out, then she would come back

and say " I just passed out again " . I was a COMPLETE basketcase. I was under so

much stress and pressure academically (I don't mean to sound full-of-myself, and

when people used to tell me that there is no schooling as rigorous as medical

school, I thought they were exaggerating, but I have come to find out that they

weren't – I studied pretty serious disciplines as an undergrad (biochem and

computer science) and I got a master's degree from a top 10 program in the

country, but NOTHING compares to medical school – the sheer volume of stuff you

have to learn, understand, remember then regurgitate and APPLY on an exam is

breathtaking). The situation with her health started pushing me over the edge.

Although, I would catch her off guard sometimes (when I would call and she would

be on the other line with someone and she'd switch over sounding very strong and

chipper, then suddenly assume her " frail old lady " voice as soon as she realized

I was on the line), and a part of me wondered how much of her illness was

psychological/psychosomatic, I still couldn't disregard it, not even one little

bit. Part of this has to do with the fact that I never saw the signs and never

anticipated my father's suicide, so ever since then I always choose to err on

the side of caution. I would rather be overly concerned and find out there's

nothing serious, then the opposite.

>

> I found a good cardiologist and finally convinced her to go see him during the

last few days of school. They checked her and said that she might have a murmur

(I have had a murmur my whole life, and have had intermittent mild heart

problems throughout my life, so it didn't shock me too much). Regardless of my

comfort level with my own heart problems, any real heart problem she may have is

still very worrisome to me (first, because it appears as something new, and

second, because she is 60), but what is more worrisome to me is the situation

with her lung. She has yet to get the follow-up CT, I think. Although, she is

refusing to tell me when she is planning to get it, or even if she has already

gotten it. She has said several times that she is a poor, used, discarded

servant and nobody is there to care for her and take her to the doctor (mind

you, despite all her real or imagined health problems, she just planted 20 trees

in her yard a week ago and she can still muster up enough energy to go off on me

for 30 minutes without taking a single deep breath, not to mention that she is a

retire (by her choice) university professor and perfectly spry and capable of

driving herself to the doctor). Over the last couple of weeks she has also told

me in NO uncertain terms that she will not tell me anything about the medical

findings from this point on. Today, she made it clear that it was " payback " for

the secrets I have kept from her – she is trying to show me how it feels to be

" in the dark " (never mind the fact that the only reason I ever kept secrets from

her is that the smallest thing could make her become unhinged and completely

lose it, and every time she would plow full force into me I would find myself on

the brink of suicidal thoughts). Furthermore, the condition for her to " share "

her life with me is for me to " get rid of " my husband. As long as he is in my

life, she will not share anything with me from now on.

>

> Going back to the day after my last exam (May 15), I called her in the morning

and asked her how she was. Her response: " Perfectly fine, never better! " I was

relieved and irate at the same time. She had been playing the frail little old

lady card on me for two weeks, almost derailing my exams, and then she was

suddenly " perfect " ?

>

> What is ironic is that she claims that I make her angry without regard to her

heart issues, but never mind that I have had heart problems since the age of 4

and she has never once remembered them during her rages (only afterwards she

would sometimes become contrite when she saw how bad a shape I was in, on the

few occasions when I would become so ill that it would make me hysterical and I

would turn blue during her rages). Not to mention that she has no consideration

for my stress level during as important a time in my life as year-end exams.

>

> Things were a little bit better in the second half of May, but then at the end

she began spiraling down again. I knew it was coming. The anniversary of my

aunt's (her sister's) death was this week and she has ZERO emotional regulation,

she has absolutely never been able to handle death. Last week she was

practically starving herself and sounding (at least on the phone with me) like

she was two breaths away from passing out (or even away!) any minute. At the end

of last week she got a call from the cardiologist regarding some test (which she

has not revealed to me) they had done – they had the results and needed to

discuss them with her in person. I got more worried, but she was bullying me

still and I was trying not to get sucked into the vortex. Then last Saturday, I

talked to her, and while the conversation itself was terrible (I actually

recorded that conversation and I am glad I did, because at one point I literally

thought maybe I was going CRAZY, because of the illogical things she was saying

- up was down and down was up, I had to go back and listen to the recording

later to be reassured that I hadn't lost it, and I was being perfectly

logical!), what got to me was the fact that she had a bit of a cough. I wasn't

sure if she had a bit of a cold or allergies, but I couldn't help wondering if

it was something with her lung. I had a very fitful night Saturday/Sunday and

barely slept.

>

> On Sunday, I caved to my inner softness, called her up and offered to bring my

kids to spend part of their summer vacation with her (they won't finish school

for another week). She perked up immediately, which I had expected. I know she

is really depressed about her sister and I know she is missing my kids

(somewhere amid the BPD madness there is also a fierce, though often twisted,

love, and I know she loves my kids more than life itself, in her own way), so I

was hoping that spending time with the kids would get her past this tough

junction. She told me that she would pay for the kids' plane tickets but NOT for

mine (my mother is wealthy, not Wall Street CEO filthy rich, but very wealthy,

while I am in a totally impecunious state, burdened by massive student loans).

Her reason: if it weren't for my husband being in my life (and in my home), she

would come to MY house, then she could take the kids on a nice vacation to

Florida, California and the Grand Canyon and I wouldn't have to spend any money,

but she'll be damned if she will spend a penny to accommodate my bad life

choices and him. I wouldn't be able to go on vacation with them because school

starts again in July for me, so I would basically take a weekend trip to drop

off the kids with her. I asked her if she felt physically well enough for such

vigorous vacation plans and she insisted that she was fine, and if she felt

unwell she would immediately buy tickets for me to come pick up the kids from

wherever they would be with her. Things seemed to be looking up (never mind the

fact that I was going to have to shell out around $600 for my ticket, I was

willing to do that, to give her a chance to enjoy part of her summer in the

company of my kids – who really are walking rays of sunshine, although I may be

biased in my assessment!

>

> I told the kids about these plans on Sunday and they have been excited. Then

for the past 3 days, I tried to pin down some dates with her and work out a good

itinerary. I offered to fly the kids to Orlando (since she was planning to take

them to Disney World, the new Harry Potter park, etc.), then I asked her for a

date (or at least a range) when she would be willing/able to bring them back. My

husband will not be living at home at the end of the summer (we had to move for

me to go to med school and he gave up a great job to support me during this

first year, we had hoped that he would find a job near my school, but so far he

has been unsuccessful locally, and we are barely holding our finances together,

so he will be moving for a new job in August). This whole time she has been

hammering on the fact that she " CANNOT " come to my home to see me or pick up my

kids as long as " HE is there " , since it will cause her to " have a massive heart

attack and die on the spot " . Well, I kept telling her that he would not be here

in August, so she can come bring the kids and stay for a visit. That is not good

enough – as long as he is still in my life then " it is just a charade " . She

refuses to " be kept in a small compartment " in my life (it is not my husband or

I who have a problem with her coming to visit, she can come and go ANY time, he

is even willing to make himself very scarce when she is around (which he has

done in the past)), since this is simply the " continuation of [my] father's

plan " (remember that my father killed himself 15 years ago!). He wanted her to

" be a servant and raise his child " and then " throw her out " of my life, and I

have completed his plan! He was " constantly brainwashing " me and " excluding " her

from my life and HE is the reason why I do not love and respect her. She has

always served everyone, she has been victimized, she has suffered, she has moved

mountains to give me the life of a princess (this would be funny if it weren't

so horribly tragic and I would laugh if I weren't feeling like howling right

now!), and then she has been cast aside because of my father's (the evil

mastermind!) plan to eliminate her from my life. Btw, she is all about personal

responsibility until it becomes about her.

>

> I forgot to mention that during our recorded conversation last Saturday she

told me that unless I was going to admit, accept and declare repeatedly that she

is the world's most amazing mother, I don't deserve for her to speak to me.

>

> So, my kids talked to her on Monday and my sweet older son drafted a wonderful

itinerary for their vacation. He worked on it for two evenings and emailed it to

her last night. Yesterday evening I made a bunch of reservations and put tickets

on hold. The reservations expired before I could get a straight answer from her

about her preferred dates. So I spent another hour making more reservations this

evening and putting more tickets on hold. Finally, as I was finalizing

everything and getting ready to start purchasing the tickets, she lost it. She

called me every name under the sun – I am a base and venal person, I don't love

her, I have never loved her, I have never respected her, I have never treated

her like a mother, if I were capable of honest reflection then I would know that

she is obviously right, but since I am too blinded and brainwashed to see the

truth I will continue to abuse her, I am a terrible mother compared to her, I am

a ruthless, heartless person devoid of empathy, how can I even think about being

a doctor, I wouldn't care if she had a heart attack and died right now while

talking to me, I probably wouldn't even think about it, I was continuing my

father's abuse of her, I owe her everything and she did everything for me and

sacrificed her life and I am a heartless ingrate, etc. etc.

>

> At this point, my own heart started acting up (I get really bad palpitations

when I am under a lot of stress, my heart starts beating very erratically, this

is not something I openly share with people (except for this wonderful group of

strangers on the internet!), but my mother (along with my husband and my 2 best

friends) knows this about me – she was there when I was a candidate for OPEN

HEART SURGERY at age 5, thankfully I was treated and was able to recover from

the more major issues without needing the surgery! I told her that since I was

such a terrible person and basically replacement of my father in her life it

would be best for us to stop the conversation at this point. She hung up, then

called back and yelled at me 3-4 more times (and hung up each time after she was

done berating me). She hasn't called in the last 30 minutes or so (I had to

interrupt this LONG post several times to answer her calls)… and I am hoping she

won't call any more (at least not tonight, please!).

>

> I am tired, I am spent, I am done… I can't keep spinning in this mad vortex

and continue to meet the demands of my own life. I am finally so close to

achieving my dream (I have wanted to be a doctor since I was 4! and amidst all

the drama and trauma, I got so hopelessly derailed that there were times I

thought I would never get to this point). I just finished my first year in

medical school, I have a chance to be who I have been born to be (I know it

sounds cheesy, but I have always felt like medicine is my calling, I know even

most (if not all) of my classmates think that " medicine as a calling " is such a

crazy, " quaint " , idealistic notion, but I do think it is a calling – being able

to put the needs and the well-being of others, most often complete strangers,

above your own, to serve them in their most challenging hour, to hold the

responsibility and the privilege of guarding someone else's health and life, is

deeply meaningful to me). I want to do this for myself, I also want to do this

for my children. I have 3 more years before getting my M.D. and getting my first

job as a resident doctor. I have never been this close and I don't even want to

consider the possibility of not getting there.

>

> I know I am already feeling guilty about the fact that I am contemplating the

decision to stop contacting her. I know she will use that decision to skewer me

– she will paint and see me as heartless, abandoning her especially when she is

having health problems. She will never let me forget it or live it down. I can

already feel my resolve weakening and I know I will probably not be able to go

more than a few weeks without finally breaking down and calling her. I also

don't know what to tell my kids. I feel terrible about setting them up for such

disappointment about this vacation (I just can't put any more energy into making

it happen), I wish I hadn't told them about the plan until I knew for sure

(tickets purchased!) that it was going to happen. I don't know where and how to

guide their relationship with their grandmother. I know I will answer her calls

and I will acknowledge her emails. I am also feeling so much grief at the

realization that my relationship with my mother is never going to be healthy. I

miss her and I love her and I want to be happy with her. I want her to love me

more than she hates my husband. I want her to love me more than she hates my

father. I want her to STOP, stop living in the past, stop assuming and relishing

the victim role, stop being so destructively (and self-destructively!)

self-centered. I want her to stop finding fault with everyone and everything. I

want her to learn to forgive and FORGET. I want her to see the world in all its

shades of gray. I want her to stop thinking that it is OK for her to insult

everyone else and to stop walking around with the assumption that everyone

offends, slights, demeans and disrespects her. I want her to stop fixating on

assumptions and wild theories and convincing herself that they are true by

repeating them incessantly (e.g., " your father has programmed you on a cellular

level to hate me " ). And this list can go on and on… but I know none of these

changes will happen, the ugly monster that is BPD is never going to let her go

and is never going to stop torturing her (I know she is tortured and miserable)

and me. I feel so stuck – I don't know how to fix this, I don't know how to live

with this and I don't know how to get out of it.

>

> For me things are complicated by the fact that I am an only child, and even

more complicated by the fact that I lost my father so tragically (yes, I know

there was nothing I could have done, but knowing and feeling are two different

things), and I feel like my mother knows that she can exploit these weaknesses

of mine.

>

> For a couple of years things seemed to be getting better for me (and even for

my mother I think too, objectively, based on other people's observations) –

after I figured out that I wasn't crazy, that the madness was real and even had

a 3-letter acronym, after I read books and joined this group, after I learned

how to set at least a few small but firm boundaries, I felt like I had finally

emerged from a dark and scary place, I felt like I had a handle on things, I was

managing, I was coping, I had even found peace with most of it, but during this

past year things have been spiraling towards the abyss again. I am exhausted, I

can't do this any longer. I have spent 30 years of my life living under

continued emotional and psychological stress and strain… I can't do it any

longer, I am at my wit's end.

>

> Thank you for letting me vent. If you have read this far, thank you, thank

you, for your patience and kindness. I am sorry I rambled on for so long.

>

> Arianna

>

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Arianna

Wow... I don't know what to say. You don't deserve any of what you've been put

through and I know this (despite all the nasty things you/your Nada have said in

this post) because NO HUMAN BEING (or animal, or slimy semblance of a life form)

deserves that strain or stress from another person. I wish your Nada could see

how her behavior is hurting you AND you children, but wishing doesn't help much.

This is a very touching, heartfelt, honest post. I wish I could give you a hug!

Hang in there... it sounds like you've overcome so much already. Don't doubt

your strength. If you NEED to go LC or NC, I have faith that you will follow

through. It might feel awkward, unusual, even painful, but you will have done

it. As for your children, I don't know if there's any good way to tell them, but

for your own sake, LC/NC could prevent more disappointments, like this vacation.

<3 ~ Frances

>

> Here I am sitting crying tonight. I am at my wits end. I sit here wondering

about what terrible thing I must have done in my life to deserve this madness

and pain. I am going to go LC, I just can't take it any longer. I am at the

point where I would go NC, except it will be only on my end since my conscience

is just not releasing me completely and I know I won't be able to ignore a call

or email if she contacts me. I am an only child and she has managed to alienate

just about everyone, so I can't abandon her completely.

>

> Those of you who were kind enough to read some of my posts and have amazing

memories might recall that last December there was high drama surrounding my

mother's health. Three days before my finals began (as a first semester medical

student) she told me that she had just gotten back from the hospital ER where

she had taken herself at the insistence of some friends (she had been having

some chest pains). As you may imagine, I was a bad daughter for not even knowing

that she had gone to the hospital, but that's just a minor issue. At the ER they

had found nothing wrong with her heart, but the X-ray they took of her showed a

tiny lesion on her lung, which could have been a tumor. This news was very

upsetting and stressful, especially during finals week. My mind kept running

through various scenarios, one gloomier than the next, non-stop. The kids and I

went to visit her during winter break (a weak after finals), and she seemed

perfectly fine. She had plenty of energy and anger to berate me on a daily

basis. The doctors told her that she should get a follow-up scan in 6 months

(this May) to check and see if this was a tumor, in which case the next step

would be a biopsy.

>

> Throughout the spring semester the berating, badgering, name-calling continued

with regularity. In fact, her BPD seemed to be flaring up progressively. Over

the past few months she has been single-mindedly obsessed with my father and all

the ways in which he (with the help of my grandparents, HER parents) has

" programmed " me on a " cellular level " to continue abusing and killing her even

after his death (he committed suicide 15 years ago). My father was physically

abusive, which I cannot and will not excuse. She was verbally abusive and at

times tried to reciprocate the physical abuse as well, which still does not

excuse his behavior, but certainly does not make her a completely innocent

victim either. He was an alcoholic with a horribly painful past. She was someone

with a painful past herself – her father and uncle were classic cases of NPD (my

grandfather, who is still alive, is really a textbook example and his brother

was worse), while her mother took out all her frustrations with her husband out

on her kids by beating them. I have tried, I have tried so hard to be kind and

understanding. I have forgiven my parents for the pain they have heaped upon me,

for unleashing their combined misery in my young and innocent life. Despite

this, I am still a horrible person. I am the world's most ungrateful daughter. I

am ruthless and callous. I have no empathy. How can I pretend that I am going to

be a doctor and care for people when I don't even care about my own mother, who

has been THE " greatest mother in the world " . How could I " use " my mother

throughout my childhood only to shatter all her " hopes and dreams " when I grew

up. I have ruined my mother's life and health, and now I am trying to " kill " her

by making her angry and giving her a heart attack.

>

> So, in the final 2 weeks of school this spring semester, culminating in 4

exams, one of which was a comprehensive exam covering all the material we have

learned over the past year, my mother's health problems flared up again. She was

feeling horribly, her heart was aching, her chest was aching, her arm was going

numb, she had vertigo and she was losing consciousness several times a day,

according to what she told me. She would be on the phone with me and then she

would become quiet for a minute and I would call out, then she would come back

and say " I just passed out again " . I was a COMPLETE basketcase. I was under so

much stress and pressure academically (I don't mean to sound full-of-myself, and

when people used to tell me that there is no schooling as rigorous as medical

school, I thought they were exaggerating, but I have come to find out that they

weren't – I studied pretty serious disciplines as an undergrad (biochem and

computer science) and I got a master's degree from a top 10 program in the

country, but NOTHING compares to medical school – the sheer volume of stuff you

have to learn, understand, remember then regurgitate and APPLY on an exam is

breathtaking). The situation with her health started pushing me over the edge.

Although, I would catch her off guard sometimes (when I would call and she would

be on the other line with someone and she'd switch over sounding very strong and

chipper, then suddenly assume her " frail old lady " voice as soon as she realized

I was on the line), and a part of me wondered how much of her illness was

psychological/psychosomatic, I still couldn't disregard it, not even one little

bit. Part of this has to do with the fact that I never saw the signs and never

anticipated my father's suicide, so ever since then I always choose to err on

the side of caution. I would rather be overly concerned and find out there's

nothing serious, then the opposite.

>

> I found a good cardiologist and finally convinced her to go see him during the

last few days of school. They checked her and said that she might have a murmur

(I have had a murmur my whole life, and have had intermittent mild heart

problems throughout my life, so it didn't shock me too much). Regardless of my

comfort level with my own heart problems, any real heart problem she may have is

still very worrisome to me (first, because it appears as something new, and

second, because she is 60), but what is more worrisome to me is the situation

with her lung. She has yet to get the follow-up CT, I think. Although, she is

refusing to tell me when she is planning to get it, or even if she has already

gotten it. She has said several times that she is a poor, used, discarded

servant and nobody is there to care for her and take her to the doctor (mind

you, despite all her real or imagined health problems, she just planted 20 trees

in her yard a week ago and she can still muster up enough energy to go off on me

for 30 minutes without taking a single deep breath, not to mention that she is a

retire (by her choice) university professor and perfectly spry and capable of

driving herself to the doctor). Over the last couple of weeks she has also told

me in NO uncertain terms that she will not tell me anything about the medical

findings from this point on. Today, she made it clear that it was " payback " for

the secrets I have kept from her – she is trying to show me how it feels to be

" in the dark " (never mind the fact that the only reason I ever kept secrets from

her is that the smallest thing could make her become unhinged and completely

lose it, and every time she would plow full force into me I would find myself on

the brink of suicidal thoughts). Furthermore, the condition for her to " share "

her life with me is for me to " get rid of " my husband. As long as he is in my

life, she will not share anything with me from now on.

>

> Going back to the day after my last exam (May 15), I called her in the morning

and asked her how she was. Her response: " Perfectly fine, never better! " I was

relieved and irate at the same time. She had been playing the frail little old

lady card on me for two weeks, almost derailing my exams, and then she was

suddenly " perfect " ?

>

> What is ironic is that she claims that I make her angry without regard to her

heart issues, but never mind that I have had heart problems since the age of 4

and she has never once remembered them during her rages (only afterwards she

would sometimes become contrite when she saw how bad a shape I was in, on the

few occasions when I would become so ill that it would make me hysterical and I

would turn blue during her rages). Not to mention that she has no consideration

for my stress level during as important a time in my life as year-end exams.

>

> Things were a little bit better in the second half of May, but then at the end

she began spiraling down again. I knew it was coming. The anniversary of my

aunt's (her sister's) death was this week and she has ZERO emotional regulation,

she has absolutely never been able to handle death. Last week she was

practically starving herself and sounding (at least on the phone with me) like

she was two breaths away from passing out (or even away!) any minute. At the end

of last week she got a call from the cardiologist regarding some test (which she

has not revealed to me) they had done – they had the results and needed to

discuss them with her in person. I got more worried, but she was bullying me

still and I was trying not to get sucked into the vortex. Then last Saturday, I

talked to her, and while the conversation itself was terrible (I actually

recorded that conversation and I am glad I did, because at one point I literally

thought maybe I was going CRAZY, because of the illogical things she was saying

- up was down and down was up, I had to go back and listen to the recording

later to be reassured that I hadn't lost it, and I was being perfectly

logical!), what got to me was the fact that she had a bit of a cough. I wasn't

sure if she had a bit of a cold or allergies, but I couldn't help wondering if

it was something with her lung. I had a very fitful night Saturday/Sunday and

barely slept.

>

> On Sunday, I caved to my inner softness, called her up and offered to bring my

kids to spend part of their summer vacation with her (they won't finish school

for another week). She perked up immediately, which I had expected. I know she

is really depressed about her sister and I know she is missing my kids

(somewhere amid the BPD madness there is also a fierce, though often twisted,

love, and I know she loves my kids more than life itself, in her own way), so I

was hoping that spending time with the kids would get her past this tough

junction. She told me that she would pay for the kids' plane tickets but NOT for

mine (my mother is wealthy, not Wall Street CEO filthy rich, but very wealthy,

while I am in a totally impecunious state, burdened by massive student loans).

Her reason: if it weren't for my husband being in my life (and in my home), she

would come to MY house, then she could take the kids on a nice vacation to

Florida, California and the Grand Canyon and I wouldn't have to spend any money,

but she'll be damned if she will spend a penny to accommodate my bad life

choices and him. I wouldn't be able to go on vacation with them because school

starts again in July for me, so I would basically take a weekend trip to drop

off the kids with her. I asked her if she felt physically well enough for such

vigorous vacation plans and she insisted that she was fine, and if she felt

unwell she would immediately buy tickets for me to come pick up the kids from

wherever they would be with her. Things seemed to be looking up (never mind the

fact that I was going to have to shell out around $600 for my ticket, I was

willing to do that, to give her a chance to enjoy part of her summer in the

company of my kids – who really are walking rays of sunshine, although I may be

biased in my assessment!

>

> I told the kids about these plans on Sunday and they have been excited. Then

for the past 3 days, I tried to pin down some dates with her and work out a good

itinerary. I offered to fly the kids to Orlando (since she was planning to take

them to Disney World, the new Harry Potter park, etc.), then I asked her for a

date (or at least a range) when she would be willing/able to bring them back. My

husband will not be living at home at the end of the summer (we had to move for

me to go to med school and he gave up a great job to support me during this

first year, we had hoped that he would find a job near my school, but so far he

has been unsuccessful locally, and we are barely holding our finances together,

so he will be moving for a new job in August). This whole time she has been

hammering on the fact that she " CANNOT " come to my home to see me or pick up my

kids as long as " HE is there " , since it will cause her to " have a massive heart

attack and die on the spot " . Well, I kept telling her that he would not be here

in August, so she can come bring the kids and stay for a visit. That is not good

enough – as long as he is still in my life then " it is just a charade " . She

refuses to " be kept in a small compartment " in my life (it is not my husband or

I who have a problem with her coming to visit, she can come and go ANY time, he

is even willing to make himself very scarce when she is around (which he has

done in the past)), since this is simply the " continuation of [my] father's

plan " (remember that my father killed himself 15 years ago!). He wanted her to

" be a servant and raise his child " and then " throw her out " of my life, and I

have completed his plan! He was " constantly brainwashing " me and " excluding " her

from my life and HE is the reason why I do not love and respect her. She has

always served everyone, she has been victimized, she has suffered, she has moved

mountains to give me the life of a princess (this would be funny if it weren't

so horribly tragic and I would laugh if I weren't feeling like howling right

now!), and then she has been cast aside because of my father's (the evil

mastermind!) plan to eliminate her from my life. Btw, she is all about personal

responsibility until it becomes about her.

>

> I forgot to mention that during our recorded conversation last Saturday she

told me that unless I was going to admit, accept and declare repeatedly that she

is the world's most amazing mother, I don't deserve for her to speak to me.

>

> So, my kids talked to her on Monday and my sweet older son drafted a wonderful

itinerary for their vacation. He worked on it for two evenings and emailed it to

her last night. Yesterday evening I made a bunch of reservations and put tickets

on hold. The reservations expired before I could get a straight answer from her

about her preferred dates. So I spent another hour making more reservations this

evening and putting more tickets on hold. Finally, as I was finalizing

everything and getting ready to start purchasing the tickets, she lost it. She

called me every name under the sun – I am a base and venal person, I don't love

her, I have never loved her, I have never respected her, I have never treated

her like a mother, if I were capable of honest reflection then I would know that

she is obviously right, but since I am too blinded and brainwashed to see the

truth I will continue to abuse her, I am a terrible mother compared to her, I am

a ruthless, heartless person devoid of empathy, how can I even think about being

a doctor, I wouldn't care if she had a heart attack and died right now while

talking to me, I probably wouldn't even think about it, I was continuing my

father's abuse of her, I owe her everything and she did everything for me and

sacrificed her life and I am a heartless ingrate, etc. etc.

>

> At this point, my own heart started acting up (I get really bad palpitations

when I am under a lot of stress, my heart starts beating very erratically, this

is not something I openly share with people (except for this wonderful group of

strangers on the internet!), but my mother (along with my husband and my 2 best

friends) knows this about me – she was there when I was a candidate for OPEN

HEART SURGERY at age 5, thankfully I was treated and was able to recover from

the more major issues without needing the surgery! I told her that since I was

such a terrible person and basically replacement of my father in her life it

would be best for us to stop the conversation at this point. She hung up, then

called back and yelled at me 3-4 more times (and hung up each time after she was

done berating me). She hasn't called in the last 30 minutes or so (I had to

interrupt this LONG post several times to answer her calls)… and I am hoping she

won't call any more (at least not tonight, please!).

>

> I am tired, I am spent, I am done… I can't keep spinning in this mad vortex

and continue to meet the demands of my own life. I am finally so close to

achieving my dream (I have wanted to be a doctor since I was 4! and amidst all

the drama and trauma, I got so hopelessly derailed that there were times I

thought I would never get to this point). I just finished my first year in

medical school, I have a chance to be who I have been born to be (I know it

sounds cheesy, but I have always felt like medicine is my calling, I know even

most (if not all) of my classmates think that " medicine as a calling " is such a

crazy, " quaint " , idealistic notion, but I do think it is a calling – being able

to put the needs and the well-being of others, most often complete strangers,

above your own, to serve them in their most challenging hour, to hold the

responsibility and the privilege of guarding someone else's health and life, is

deeply meaningful to me). I want to do this for myself, I also want to do this

for my children. I have 3 more years before getting my M.D. and getting my first

job as a resident doctor. I have never been this close and I don't even want to

consider the possibility of not getting there.

>

> I know I am already feeling guilty about the fact that I am contemplating the

decision to stop contacting her. I know she will use that decision to skewer me

– she will paint and see me as heartless, abandoning her especially when she is

having health problems. She will never let me forget it or live it down. I can

already feel my resolve weakening and I know I will probably not be able to go

more than a few weeks without finally breaking down and calling her. I also

don't know what to tell my kids. I feel terrible about setting them up for such

disappointment about this vacation (I just can't put any more energy into making

it happen), I wish I hadn't told them about the plan until I knew for sure

(tickets purchased!) that it was going to happen. I don't know where and how to

guide their relationship with their grandmother. I know I will answer her calls

and I will acknowledge her emails. I am also feeling so much grief at the

realization that my relationship with my mother is never going to be healthy. I

miss her and I love her and I want to be happy with her. I want her to love me

more than she hates my husband. I want her to love me more than she hates my

father. I want her to STOP, stop living in the past, stop assuming and relishing

the victim role, stop being so destructively (and self-destructively!)

self-centered. I want her to stop finding fault with everyone and everything. I

want her to learn to forgive and FORGET. I want her to see the world in all its

shades of gray. I want her to stop thinking that it is OK for her to insult

everyone else and to stop walking around with the assumption that everyone

offends, slights, demeans and disrespects her. I want her to stop fixating on

assumptions and wild theories and convincing herself that they are true by

repeating them incessantly (e.g., " your father has programmed you on a cellular

level to hate me " ). And this list can go on and on… but I know none of these

changes will happen, the ugly monster that is BPD is never going to let her go

and is never going to stop torturing her (I know she is tortured and miserable)

and me. I feel so stuck – I don't know how to fix this, I don't know how to live

with this and I don't know how to get out of it.

>

> For me things are complicated by the fact that I am an only child, and even

more complicated by the fact that I lost my father so tragically (yes, I know

there was nothing I could have done, but knowing and feeling are two different

things), and I feel like my mother knows that she can exploit these weaknesses

of mine.

>

> For a couple of years things seemed to be getting better for me (and even for

my mother I think too, objectively, based on other people's observations) –

after I figured out that I wasn't crazy, that the madness was real and even had

a 3-letter acronym, after I read books and joined this group, after I learned

how to set at least a few small but firm boundaries, I felt like I had finally

emerged from a dark and scary place, I felt like I had a handle on things, I was

managing, I was coping, I had even found peace with most of it, but during this

past year things have been spiraling towards the abyss again. I am exhausted, I

can't do this any longer. I have spent 30 years of my life living under

continued emotional and psychological stress and strain… I can't do it any

longer, I am at my wit's end.

>

> Thank you for letting me vent. If you have read this far, thank you, thank

you, for your patience and kindness. I am sorry I rambled on for so long.

>

> Arianna

>

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Dear ,

Thank you for the kind and thoughtful words. I have reread your post three

times. I know it seems silly, but I do find comfort knowing that someone

understands (as much as I hate the fact that ANY of us have had to live the kind

of life that makes us understand this madness).

As far as the recording, I was using Skype to talk to her and I have found a

program called " Total Recorder " that works very well in recording skype

conversations (and supposedly other over-the-internet audio, although I have

only tried it with Skype). You can download it from cnet.com. Ever since I got

the program, I have been trying to have our conversations over Skype (although

she still insists on the phone more often), so I can record them, because the

twisted logic and the really horrid things she says are hard to believe (even

for me) after I hang up. I often find myself sitting and wondering, did she

really say THAT?

What do I fear in going LC or NC? That's a great questions I worry that she will

be even more miserable than she is now, I feel like a bad person for abandoning

someone (and my own mother at that!) who has an obvious mental illness. I am

afraid of the example this will set for my kids - will they think it is OK to

turn away from a person in need, especially family? Thank goodness they have

never, ever had to experience even one percent of the horror with which I had to

grow up, and our family is very warm, nurturing and all of us are thankfully

quite sane (by all, even professional, accounts), but still...

My mom is getting older and she may even have legitimate health problems (how

much of it is legitimate? I have no clue), and she has absolutely nobody to take

care of her. She has alienated most, if not all, family and friends. I'm all

there is and if by some cruel twist of fate she ends up with cancer (her 30-year

smoking history in mind!) I will be the one taking care of her.

Other than that there is nothing else that keeps me from going LC or NC. I have

no expectations of anything from her, no support, no comfort, no inheritance. I

am not in her will, she has said this many times and has made it amply clear

(she even showed me a copy of the will to make sure that I " know " ), as she plans

to leave her multimillion dollar fortune to various institutions. Many of my

friends get hung up on this fact and they think I should be angry about this -

strangely, I am not. In fact, this is the part that bothers me the LEAST (in

fact, not at all). It is her (and my step-dad's, who passed away almost 15 years

ago, shortly after my father) money and she should do whatever makes her happy.

All I ever wanted from her was unconditional love, comfort and kindness. Knowing

that I will never get that is what hurts me.

Arianna

>

> Arianna, you are in a truly hellish situation and I'm so sorry you are going

through this. I am an only child too who feels very stuck in a situation that

becomes increasingly difficult as time moves on though the dynamics are a bit

different in our two cases. Still I know what it is to feel that you can't take

it anymore and something has to change.

>

> The huge thing that jumps out at me is that you are treating your mother as if

her thoughts, responses to you, physical symptoms, and feelings are all valid.

They aren't - she's mentally ill. Nothing she says, does, thinks or feels can

be treated as an accurate reflection of you or necessarily of reality. I know

that sounds pretty harsh but as long as we give them that level of validity the

dance still continues. I know that when I get completely spinning and reacting

in my mind to my FOO it is because I am treating what they put out there as

valid and something I must respond to. But that's not always true...

>

> You've got some incredible things going for you - a husband who knows about

your mother and is willing to work with you on it, kids who are beams of

sunshine :), and progressing career in medical school. The future's so bright

you've gotta wear shades...unless you let your nada block out the sun. Now

me, it often bugs me when people use the word " let " because sometimes there's no

" let " about it. It's up to you to know how much is up to you to allow.

>

> Also you have a recording demonstarting her craziness you can play for a

therapist. I would suggest doing that right away - might really help. Just a

technical question but how were you able to make that recording?

>

> One other thought too - it sounds like she's verbally abusing you frequently

and openly. You have the right to defend yourself. And also a duty to protect

your kids from her. What will you lose, what do you fear if you go LC or NC as

she's already making your life hell?

>

> Whatever you do good luck,

>

>

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Dear ,

Thanks for the healthy perspective. You are right and interestingly my best

friend used the EXACT same words last week, saying " wake up honey, she is trying

to f--- up your dream! " .

If nothing else, at this point I know that this is becoming a pattern - her

flare-ups right around exam times.What's really twisted is that I think in some

ways she is trying to screw up my life intentionally, for 2 reasons:

1. For YEARS, she kept telling me (yelling at me is probably a more accurate

description) that I will NEVER amount to anything as long as I am with " HIM " (my

husband). She has been proven wrong since I managed to get an excellent master's

degree that gives me many great career options, and on top of that am now in

medical school. She is being proven wrong and her twisted logic is unraveling.

2. She believes that if I were destitute (poor, on the street), then I would run

to her and I would be under her total control - I would have to " listen " to her.

She has even said as much, not in those exact words, but the meaning is the same

(what she has said is that " the moment you run out of money, that #@$@ (my

husband) will run off and leave you, then who is going to step in and take care

of you and your kids - ME of course! " ). My reaction is, NOT in a million years!

I would rather beg on the street corner or even sell my body into prostitution.

Of course, with an M.D. there is a certain level of stable income potential that

will keep me from ever sliding into the kind of poverty that would force me to

beg her for help, and on some (probably subconscious) level, this must be

bugging her.

If nothing else, I have decided that I will be NC during all exams from now on.

I think I can manage that without feeling guilty. I really appreciate you

helping me see this as a valid (and such an obviously good!!!) option.

Arianna

>

> Ok STOP.

>

> Why are you letting this woman making your life hell?

>

> Don't you matter?

>

> You have a dream, and she's fucking it up.

>

> That is NOT love. Thats abuse and control.

>

> There comes a time where you will say to yourself..if the house was on

fire...would she take time to help us (me, the kids etc) or would she happily

let it burn gleefully anticipating the attention that this will bring.

>

> I went NC one time because she started her shit during my exams, finals in

fact and I had a baby at home. I did NOT need that stress.

>

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You know, it's so interesting to be on this board, because normally if you told

a " regular person " that your mother was doing this, they would be shocked and in

disbelief. BUT HERE it's just another, " Oh yeah, she's definitely hoping you'll

fail. "

Sometimes reading stuff like this makes me giggle because it is so messed up,

but I think it is a nervous giggle. Because underneath that, is an immense

sadness that the one who should love, protect and want the best for you simply

DOES NOT. Adding to that sadness is the " regular people " out there who simply

don't won't can't understand the truth. Having this board is such a blessing.

Deanna

> >

> > Ok STOP.

> >

> > Why are you letting this woman making your life hell?

> >

> > Don't you matter?

> >

> > You have a dream, and she's fucking it up.

> >

> > That is NOT love. Thats abuse and control.

> >

> > There comes a time where you will say to yourself..if the house was on

fire...would she take time to help us (me, the kids etc) or would she happily

let it burn gleefully anticipating the attention that this will bring.

> >

> > I went NC one time because she started her shit during my exams, finals in

fact and I had a baby at home. I did NOT need that stress.

> >

>

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Dear Frances,

Thank you so much for the kind words. I did end up getting a two-hour-long hug

(made of words :) last night. A few minutes after I posted my message my best

friend called and we were on the phone forever. Knowing that there are people

out there who are sane and kind, who care and who can look at things fairly is

so comforting.

I spent my entire childhood not just walking on eggshells but tiptoeing and

trying to float above them, lest I disturb them in the least bit. Between my

father's tortured past and alcoholism, my mother's uncontrolled rages and rants,

my grandfather's deep narcissism (I had to live with my grandparents for a year

and a half when I was aged 8-10), being repeatedly molested by our neighbor when

I was 13, moving across the world and being completely isolated from any support

at 15, being raped by a stranger at 19, losing my father to suicide at 20,

losing my step-father to illness 6 months later (not to mention all the more

" normal " problems in life - challenging times in my relationship with my

husband, 4 miscarriages, an affair he had).... some days I wonder what sin or

sins I must have committed in some previous life or some alternate universe,

since no matter how hard I try I can't find enough evidence in my current life,

to deserve all that.

The only consolation I have is that all of my experiences have made me the

person that I am today. I like the person I am. I like the fact that I am deeply

empathetic, non-judgmental, kind and caring. I like the fact that I am able to

put myself in someone else's shoes. I like the fact that I know life is lived

along an infinite spectrum of shades of gray. I like the fact that I am not

rigid, self-centered and arrogant and I don't expect people to be perfect, to be

able to pick themselves up by the bootstraps, all alone, no matter what

(ironically it's usually people who haven't faced much true adversity who expect

others to overcome incredible adversity without as much as a wince). Most of

all, I am glad to be a better parent because of the lessons I learned by

observing my parents' mistakes.

Having said that, the person I am is also a very imperfect person - I still need

to grow and evolve a lot, to polish many hard edges within myself, to heal many

broken pieces I keep hidden deep inside. The problem is that it is hard for me

to concentrate on growing and bettering myself while I am still being assailed

by my mother's BPD madness. I want to call out to the universe - " uncle,

UNCLE! " , I give up, please, I have had enough, I have learned the lessons,

please let me live in peace. Let me spend the rest of my life becoming someone

better, more whole, let me concentrate on the good for a change instead of

defending myself against the bad all the time. The trouble is, I can't call out

to the universe like that, because I know that as long as my mother is in my

life, the BPD hell will also be here, and I can't wish for my mother not to be

here.

Thanks for listening...

Arianna

>

> Arianna

>

> Wow... I don't know what to say. You don't deserve any of what you've been put

through and I know this (despite all the nasty things you/your Nada have said in

this post) because NO HUMAN BEING (or animal, or slimy semblance of a life form)

deserves that strain or stress from another person. I wish your Nada could see

how her behavior is hurting you AND you children, but wishing doesn't help much.

>

> This is a very touching, heartfelt, honest post. I wish I could give you a

hug! Hang in there... it sounds like you've overcome so much already. Don't

doubt your strength. If you NEED to go LC or NC, I have faith that you will

follow through. It might feel awkward, unusual, even painful, but you will have

done it. As for your children, I don't know if there's any good way to tell

them, but for your own sake, LC/NC could prevent more disappointments, like this

vacation.

>

> <3 ~ Frances

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(((((Arianna)))))

You do not deserve to be treated this way!!!!!

I've struggled with some of the same exact issues you are going through. I am

now NC with my nada (and dishrag dad) - it will be 1 year in July. I have 2

young kids who adore their grandparents (although differently since I explained

what they did that led me to go NC). I was also extremely concerned about going

NC and the kind of example it would set for my kids. It is a VERY HARD decision

to make! Especially since both my kids were adopted and have their own

abandonment issues (going NC really triggered some of these for my youngest - a

whole other layer I've had to work on).

I made the decision to set an example for my kids that WE DO NOT ALLOW PEOPLE TO

TREAT US BADLY. Sometimes this means giving people a very long " time-out " . I

also teach my kids that it is important that we do things to take care of our

health!

Since going NC, the first 3 months were challenging. I spent a whole lot of

time processing why I was going NC - this brought up a lot of memories about

past abuse, and I spent a lot of time in therapy. After 3 months, I saw that my

kids were okay, my husband and I were less stressed and were able to make

decisions without constantly looking over our shoulders, and I started to feel

some relief I hadn't felt in years. Last month I had my annual physical, and my

Dr. told me that my bloodwork was the best he's ever seen it! (I've had a whole

slew of health problems - including cancer twice - for the past 25 years, so

this is huge!)

For me, the physical benefits of going NC outweigh the FOG. For me AND my kids,

who would like me to be healthy and around to take care of them forever.

You are at the end of your rope. You are IN MEDICAL SCHOOL (talk about HIGH

STRESS)!!! With kids!!! OMG!!! You need LOTS of support to make this dream of

yours happen (also a great example to set for your kids)! You DESERVE to have

your life and to live your dream!!!

It is OKAY to let go of those things that are not supporting your dreams. You

are not the only person in the world who can take care of your nada!!!

Remember: she has millions of dollars. That can buy a WHOLE LOT of help. A

nice assisted living facility someplace, a live-in caregiver, a driver to take

her to appointments, etc. She's not leaving her millions to you - her only

child - so let her put it to use on herself! (I have this same situation with

my nada, who I'm sure has written me out of her will many times). She is an

adult and can take responsibility for her own care!

You say you feel guilty for " abandoning your own mother " - but then you say she

never gave you " unconditional love, comfort and kindness " . You do not have a

mother - you have a nada. A mother would support your dreams, a nada does not

know how. Just because she gave birth to you does not give her the right to

abuse you.

Take care of yourself! Seriously.

(((((((hugs))))))))

-

> >

> > Arianna, you are in a truly hellish situation and I'm so sorry you are going

through this. I am an only child too who feels very stuck in a situation that

becomes increasingly difficult as time moves on though the dynamics are a bit

different in our two cases. Still I know what it is to feel that you can't take

it anymore and something has to change.

> >

> > The huge thing that jumps out at me is that you are treating your mother as

if her thoughts, responses to you, physical symptoms, and feelings are all

valid. They aren't - she's mentally ill. Nothing she says, does, thinks or

feels can be treated as an accurate reflection of you or necessarily of reality.

I know that sounds pretty harsh but as long as we give them that level of

validity the dance still continues. I know that when I get completely spinning

and reacting in my mind to my FOO it is because I am treating what they put out

there as valid and something I must respond to. But that's not always true...

> >

> > You've got some incredible things going for you - a husband who knows about

your mother and is willing to work with you on it, kids who are beams of

sunshine :), and progressing career in medical school. The future's so bright

you've gotta wear shades...unless you let your nada block out the sun. Now

me, it often bugs me when people use the word " let " because sometimes there's no

" let " about it. It's up to you to know how much is up to you to allow.

> >

> > Also you have a recording demonstarting her craziness you can play for a

therapist. I would suggest doing that right away - might really help. Just a

technical question but how were you able to make that recording?

> >

> > One other thought too - it sounds like she's verbally abusing you frequently

and openly. You have the right to defend yourself. And also a duty to protect

your kids from her. What will you lose, what do you fear if you go LC or NC as

she's already making your life hell?

> >

> > Whatever you do good luck,

> >

> >

>

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Dear Deanna,

You have hit the nail on the head. I have 2 very close friends who are like my

sisters, and even with them it took me YEARS (5 with one and 4 with the other)

of knowing them before I could start slowly opening up the insane world of my

mother and my past. By now, they pretty much know everything and they have

witnessed some things first hand, but even for them it is still hard sometimes

to wrap their heads around this. When I first told my oldest best friend (going

on 15 years now) about having found this group, her immediate reaction was

relief because she felt like she couldn't really understand this situation well

enough to be of real help, and she often felt frustrated and angry.

The saddest part is that this also limits our ability to forge new

relationships. It is hard to leave this kind of baggage totally behind/outside

and for most people it is very difficult (if not impossible) to relate or even

to comprehend this madness. What I have found is that I end up with many

lopsided relationships - most of my friends think they are very close to me,

they share many of their secrets, challenges and problems with me and many of

them consider me their closest friend, but I can only open up some small

segments of myself to them (they don't even realize how many more complex and

dark things are hidden beyond view). This makes me feel a bit disingenuous, like

I am being less than honest, but I know that I just can't open up to everyone.

Arianna

>

> You know, it's so interesting to be on this board, because normally if you

told a " regular person " that your mother was doing this, they would be shocked

and in disbelief. BUT HERE it's just another, " Oh yeah, she's definitely hoping

you'll fail. "

>

> Sometimes reading stuff like this makes me giggle because it is so messed up,

but I think it is a nervous giggle. Because underneath that, is an immense

sadness that the one who should love, protect and want the best for you simply

DOES NOT. Adding to that sadness is the " regular people " out there who simply

don't won't can't understand the truth. Having this board is such a blessing.

>

> Deanna

>

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Dear ,

Thank you so very much for your perspective, especially regarding the kids. I

can't tell you how reassuring it is to hear that they are thriving despite the

NC, even with the added layer of complexity that comes with adoption.

You are right about taking care of our own health too! I do have a heart

problem, although you can't tell by just looking at me, which makes it easy for

me and everyone else to forget about it until it brings me to my knees every now

and then. I do want to be around to see my own grandkids and I know my kids

deserve to have a healthy mom who will be a source of unconditional love, help

and support in their lives for as long as possible.

I am so glad to hear that your health has improved over the past year!!!

Arianna

>

> (((((Arianna)))))

>

> You do not deserve to be treated this way!!!!!

>

> I've struggled with some of the same exact issues you are going through. I am

now NC with my nada (and dishrag dad) - it will be 1 year in July. I have 2

young kids who adore their grandparents (although differently since I explained

what they did that led me to go NC). I was also extremely concerned about going

NC and the kind of example it would set for my kids. It is a VERY HARD decision

to make! Especially since both my kids were adopted and have their own

abandonment issues (going NC really triggered some of these for my youngest - a

whole other layer I've had to work on).

>

> I made the decision to set an example for my kids that WE DO NOT ALLOW PEOPLE

TO TREAT US BADLY. Sometimes this means giving people a very long " time-out " .

I also teach my kids that it is important that we do things to take care of our

health!

>

> Since going NC, the first 3 months were challenging. I spent a whole lot of

time processing why I was going NC - this brought up a lot of memories about

past abuse, and I spent a lot of time in therapy. After 3 months, I saw that my

kids were okay, my husband and I were less stressed and were able to make

decisions without constantly looking over our shoulders, and I started to feel

some relief I hadn't felt in years. Last month I had my annual physical, and my

Dr. told me that my bloodwork was the best he's ever seen it! (I've had a whole

slew of health problems - including cancer twice - for the past 25 years, so

this is huge!)

>

> For me, the physical benefits of going NC outweigh the FOG. For me AND my

kids, who would like me to be healthy and around to take care of them forever.

>

> You are at the end of your rope. You are IN MEDICAL SCHOOL (talk about HIGH

STRESS)!!! With kids!!! OMG!!! You need LOTS of support to make this dream of

yours happen (also a great example to set for your kids)! You DESERVE to have

your life and to live your dream!!!

>

> It is OKAY to let go of those things that are not supporting your dreams. You

are not the only person in the world who can take care of your nada!!!

Remember: she has millions of dollars. That can buy a WHOLE LOT of help. A

nice assisted living facility someplace, a live-in caregiver, a driver to take

her to appointments, etc. She's not leaving her millions to you - her only

child - so let her put it to use on herself! (I have this same situation with

my nada, who I'm sure has written me out of her will many times). She is an

adult and can take responsibility for her own care!

>

> You say you feel guilty for " abandoning your own mother " - but then you say

she never gave you " unconditional love, comfort and kindness " . You do not have

a mother - you have a nada. A mother would support your dreams, a nada does not

know how. Just because she gave birth to you does not give her the right to

abuse you.

>

> Take care of yourself! Seriously.

>

> (((((((hugs))))))))

> -

>

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Your nada is selfish; abusive; demented; manipulative; controlling; evil and

vile. She is sooooooooo jealous of your husband and your love for him she can't

see straight. I can REALLY relate to a lot of what you said because my nada

calls me ungrateful - she was THE best mother - I am stupid - who the hell do I

think I am a Princess any time I stand up for myself - pulls the sympathy card

whenever it suits her - says I am not there for her - that I am a BAD daughter -

that I never loved her and sometimes even that I am responsible for her ailing

health when she won't take care of herself like she should - won't do the

testing her doctor required etc. Trust me, sweetie, it isn't you. It is HER

and her BPD. It drives her to fear your abandoning her so much that she is

petrified that you will cut her out of your life in favor of your husband and

children, which you have every right to do, and she will lose another loved one

- not to death, but due to her own behavior which she would never accept that

she actually caused 98% of this herself. You need to look at this for what she

is and as difficult as it is and trust me, I know it is difficult because we've

been conditioned to OBEY from a VERY early age but if you don't obey her she

will rant and rave but she'll get over it. She will have to. I hang up on mine

with a " I love you too " sarcastically when she REALLY gets out of hand, but a

few days later her 'don't leave me' kicks in after her 'I hate you " has ended

and she is back to herself 'til next time and there always IS a next time.

Think of what is best for YOU - your husband and your children. She'll get over

it. It isn't selfish on your part - it is SURVIVAL.

Trust me your nada would NEVER give up HER husband (if she had one) for you and

you wouldn't want her to because you're SANE and she's INSANE and irrational.

I hope this helps.

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Arianna, funny you should mention that. I had a friend who I told everything

to, whom I thought I was close with. When I would ask her how she was, she

always just said, " fine " . She almost never spoke of any problems, so I

eventually accepted that she didn't have any. (I was suspicious at first, but

after several years, I figured her life was just perfect.) I did always know

that she had several people whom she was closer with than me, but for me, she

was my closest friend.

She was hiding at least two huge secrets. One, she had a brother with Down's,

whom her parents had put in a home after he was born. A sort of halfway house.

(they could afford this). He was still considered family and he came over every

Christmas. Every year I would ask her how was her Christmas and she would

carefully avoid mentioning this brother. (At 36 she still lived with her

parents). One day she told me about him. She only told me about him because I

would be meeting him at a family gathering. I felt hurt. I think she was

ashamed that he was given up.

The other huge secret was her multiple affairs. The last 2 years of her

marriage, I think the cheating really escalated (she was mostly cheating with

women BTW). I noticed SOMETHING was wrong. I thought she was mad at me. I

confronted her by e-mail, so she would not feel cornered and she said she was

not mad at me and nothing could be further from the truth, but she did not

mention any explanation for her recent temper and rudeness.

Soooo... because I thought she was the nicest/greatest person in the world and I

didn't have a TON of friends, I just let it continue. She was grumpy a lot and

gave me a lot of fake smiles. Inside, I felt our friendship was over and I

grieved it, but she was in the middle of working on a campaign for the state

ballot, and I didn't want to " bother " her with my problem. During this 2 year

period, her mother also became cool towards me.

Then, out of the blue, she tells me she's getting a divorce and will only say

that she's " not feeling it " anymore with her husband. Again, I felt hurt that I

had no idea there were any problems.

Months later she takes me to a bar and tells me " the truth " about why she got a

divorce. Says she's with a woman now but she's not gay. Ummmmmm....OK. That's

some weird denial. She hands me a pre-fab story about how it all went down and

I am sitting there thinking " these dates don't add up " . As she tells me how

happy she is to not be lying anymore, it occurs to me that she is lying right

now. She didn't have ONE affair. She had at least two. (I found out later

through the woman she had an affair with that there were many, and they spanned

the entire 15 years of her marriage.)

So this person who I looked up to, and even thought I was probably not " good "

enough or " nice " enough to be around was a serial cheater with a secret brother

and that weight she lost until her bones were showing? Not stress-induced

forgetting to eat. Bulimia.

It just rocked my world. Things started to come into focus and I realized that

her family was not perfect. Her parents hated each other, her mother begged her

to stay married because she loved her daughter's husband. She knew she was

having affairs, but wanted her to stay married for her own selfish reasons. Her

mother punished her for the divorce by refusing to let her have dinner parties

at their house anymore.

I tried to talk to her about how hurtful it had been for me to be shut out for

two years. I told her I thought she was mad at me and she said I was the fifth

person to say that to her. So my reaction was NORMAL. Felt good to know. I

said, " why didn't you tell me the truth when I asked if you were mad at me? " and

she said she told me she was not mad at me and that was the truth.

I figured I could forgive the past, but as I started thinking about it later, I

realized that after 7 years of what I thought was a close friendship, if she

hadn't opened up yet, she never would. She was also acting like a victim with

her " I was struggling with my sexuality " thing. I guess I could understand a

couple of weeks of cheating on that pretext, but the two years that she

confessed to? It sill hadn't occurred to her that that was really, really

wrong. Also, her husband was refusing to speak to her anymore (he had moved

out) and she was mad about that.

In the end, I thought she is never going to open up to me, and I was realizing

her perfect family was actually a huge mess, and she was working really hard to

hide that too. She told me one thing and someone else another. I felt like to

continue our friendship, I had to fake like everything was fine when it wasn't.

IT FELT JUST LIKE WITH NADA.

I was at the end of my rope in the respect of having fake friendships, having my

boundaries trampled on, and having to spend an hour a day on the phone with my

nada, pretending I didn't hate her. I just couldn't fake it anymore, with

anything. I was not living authentically. My friend NEEDED me to keep faking

it. Keep acting like everything was cool. She had very firm boundaries, and I

knew she needed me to pretend everything was cool and that my opinion of her had

not been drastically altered. I didn't think she would ever open up to me, and

I didn't feel we could really have an authentic friendship.

On the one hand, she was the greatest friend I ever had. Super supportive,

always there to listen, always on my side, so so safe. Very considerate.

On the other hand, I had no idea who she was.

So I just walked away, with no explanation, because she did not seem to want the

truth. She wanted me to be fake and polite, like her and her family. It was

making me sick.

I bump into her on occasion and I always say hi and make small talk but that's

it.

So I either felt compelled to tell you this story because it might be a good

perspective for you to have, something to think about, OR I just needed to get

it off my chest again.

Not sure which! :)

Deanna

> >

> > You know, it's so interesting to be on this board, because normally if you

told a " regular person " that your mother was doing this, they would be shocked

and in disbelief. BUT HERE it's just another, " Oh yeah, she's definitely hoping

you'll fail. "

> >

> > Sometimes reading stuff like this makes me giggle because it is so messed

up, but I think it is a nervous giggle. Because underneath that, is an immense

sadness that the one who should love, protect and want the best for you simply

DOES NOT. Adding to that sadness is the " regular people " out there who simply

don't won't can't understand the truth. Having this board is such a blessing.

> >

> > Deanna

> >

>

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Dear Marilyn.... OMG, you would NOT believe this, she literally just called.

Mother: I have called to give you an opportunity to apologize.

A (sounding genuinely shocked): For what?

Mother: For raising your voice at me and being disrespectful last night.

A: I am sorry you thought I raised my voice at you, but I don't believe I raised

my voice or said anything disrespectful.

Mother: OK then, I accept your apology! I have to go now, I am busy, but call me

later or I will call you.

A: Bye.

Mother: Talk to you later.

I know nothing should surprise me any more, but she still manages to do it. I

told her explicitly last night that if she truly believes I am the horrible evil

person she describes me as being, if I am trying to ruin her health and " kill "

her as she insists, then she should stop contacting me and that I have no desire

to continue this sort of relationship with her. I told her I wouldn't call her.

This is really the classic " I hate you, don't leave me! " ... unbelievable. The

nerve of this woman is just incredible!

A part of me wishes we could buy a beautiful island with all the amenities and

comforts of modern life and send ALL of our BPD parents to live on it together,

with built in specific phone and other contact restrictions for each of us (that

we could set up individually). Maybe some of them might benefit from seeing

their own madness mirrored and it would help them seek help - of course, we'd

have a highly trained battalion of therapists on the island as well, available

24/7.

Arianna

>

> Your nada is selfish; abusive; demented; manipulative; controlling; evil and

vile. She is sooooooooo jealous of your husband and your love for him she can't

see straight. I can REALLY relate to a lot of what you said because my nada

calls me ungrateful - she was THE best mother - I am stupid - who the hell do I

think I am a Princess any time I stand up for myself - pulls the sympathy card

whenever it suits her - says I am not there for her - that I am a BAD daughter -

that I never loved her and sometimes even that I am responsible for her ailing

health when she won't take care of herself like she should - won't do the

testing her doctor required etc. Trust me, sweetie, it isn't you. It is HER

and her BPD. It drives her to fear your abandoning her so much that she is

petrified that you will cut her out of your life in favor of your husband and

children, which you have every right to do, and she will lose another loved one

- not to death, but due to her own behavior which she would never accept that

she actually caused 98% of this herself. You need to look at this for what she

is and as difficult as it is and trust me, I know it is difficult because we've

been conditioned to OBEY from a VERY early age but if you don't obey her she

will rant and rave but she'll get over it. She will have to. I hang up on mine

with a " I love you too " sarcastically when she REALLY gets out of hand, but a

few days later her 'don't leave me' kicks in after her 'I hate you " has ended

and she is back to herself 'til next time and there always IS a next time.

>

> Think of what is best for YOU - your husband and your children. She'll get

over it. It isn't selfish on your part - it is SURVIVAL.

>

> Trust me your nada would NEVER give up HER husband (if she had one) for you

and you wouldn't want her to because you're SANE and she's INSANE and

irrational.

>

> I hope this helps.

>

>

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Arianna, I am 100% percent behind your island idea, with the exception of

providing them with a phone.

Deanna

> >

> > Your nada is selfish; abusive; demented; manipulative; controlling; evil

and vile. She is sooooooooo jealous of your husband and your love for him she

can't see straight. I can REALLY relate to a lot of what you said because my

nada calls me ungrateful - she was THE best mother - I am stupid - who the hell

do I think I am a Princess any time I stand up for myself - pulls the sympathy

card whenever it suits her - says I am not there for her - that I am a BAD

daughter - that I never loved her and sometimes even that I am responsible for

her ailing health when she won't take care of herself like she should - won't do

the testing her doctor required etc. Trust me, sweetie, it isn't you. It is

HER and her BPD. It drives her to fear your abandoning her so much that she is

petrified that you will cut her out of your life in favor of your husband and

children, which you have every right to do, and she will lose another loved one

- not to death, but due to her own behavior which she would never accept that

she actually caused 98% of this herself. You need to look at this for what she

is and as difficult as it is and trust me, I know it is difficult because we've

been conditioned to OBEY from a VERY early age but if you don't obey her she

will rant and rave but she'll get over it. She will have to. I hang up on mine

with a " I love you too " sarcastically when she REALLY gets out of hand, but a

few days later her 'don't leave me' kicks in after her 'I hate you " has ended

and she is back to herself 'til next time and there always IS a next time.

> >

> > Think of what is best for YOU - your husband and your children. She'll get

over it. It isn't selfish on your part - it is SURVIVAL.

> >

> > Trust me your nada would NEVER give up HER husband (if she had one) for you

and you wouldn't want her to because you're SANE and she's INSANE and

irrational.

> >

> > I hope this helps.

> >

> >

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Dear Deanna,

Thanks for sharing this. This is definitely a perspective I need to examine a

bit more closely. As I mentioned in my earlier post, a part of me feels that

when I keep things hidden, then I am being less than honest and I do feel a

certain measure of guilt about it. The good thing is that what I present to

others isn't a different version of myself or my family, but rather only a

partial view - and I think there is a difference between lying/pretending and

simply choosing not to reveal everything. Also, if I am ever asked a point blank

question I do answer it honestly, although if it relates to my past/family it

almost always ends up being a conversation stopper - most " normal " people don't

know what to do with this sort of information, they don't know how to process it

or how to deal with it (when someone with a relatively " normal " past tells you

about their first sexual experience and asks you about yours, how do you tell

them that you were raped, or when a friend tells you about the help her mom is

going to give you when you organize her baby shower, how do you tell her that

when you were pregnant with your first child your mom called you every day at

all hours of night and day until you were 6 months along telling you to get an

abortion and then after that until 3 days before you baby was born she kept

trying to convince you to give up the baby for adoption... there is just nowhere

you can take that conversation any more, so you just choose to skillfully change

the subject).

Nonetheless, it worries me, because I don't want to hurt or disappoint people

who have obviously put a lot of trust in me. This may be the reason why I have

been reluctant to make many new friends since I have started med school (only 2

real friends so far, who seem to have pretty troubled pasts themselves which

makes it easy to be pretty open with them). My one best friend used to get very

frustrated with me (even as recently as last September) and she used to tell me

that I am wrong for limiting my social circle. I think she has really seen my

side of the issue more clearly over the last few months and she is starting to

understand now that I don't want to keep getting into relationships that are

lopsided, because it's not fair to anyone. It's not fair to me, because I get a

lot less out of the relationship than I invest (support, effort, empathy, etc.),

and it's not fair to the other person because they are putting a lot more trust

in than they are getting.

Your thoughts have really made me consider the issue of reciprocity even more

carefully and I will keep them in mind in the future.

Arianna

>

> Arianna, funny you should mention that. I had a friend who I told everything

to, whom I thought I was close with. When I would ask her how she was, she

always just said, " fine " . She almost never spoke of any problems, so I

eventually accepted that she didn't have any. (I was suspicious at first, but

after several years, I figured her life was just perfect.) I did always know

that she had several people whom she was closer with than me, but for me, she

was my closest friend.

>

> She was hiding at least two huge secrets. One, she had a brother with Down's,

whom her parents had put in a home after he was born. A sort of halfway house.

(they could afford this). He was still considered family and he came over every

Christmas. Every year I would ask her how was her Christmas and she would

carefully avoid mentioning this brother. (At 36 she still lived with her

parents). One day she told me about him. She only told me about him because I

would be meeting him at a family gathering. I felt hurt. I think she was

ashamed that he was given up.

>

> The other huge secret was her multiple affairs. The last 2 years of her

marriage, I think the cheating really escalated (she was mostly cheating with

women BTW). I noticed SOMETHING was wrong. I thought she was mad at me. I

confronted her by e-mail, so she would not feel cornered and she said she was

not mad at me and nothing could be further from the truth, but she did not

mention any explanation for her recent temper and rudeness.

>

> Soooo... because I thought she was the nicest/greatest person in the world and

I didn't have a TON of friends, I just let it continue. She was grumpy a lot

and gave me a lot of fake smiles. Inside, I felt our friendship was over and I

grieved it, but she was in the middle of working on a campaign for the state

ballot, and I didn't want to " bother " her with my problem. During this 2 year

period, her mother also became cool towards me.

>

> Then, out of the blue, she tells me she's getting a divorce and will only say

that she's " not feeling it " anymore with her husband. Again, I felt hurt that I

had no idea there were any problems.

>

> Months later she takes me to a bar and tells me " the truth " about why she got

a divorce. Says she's with a woman now but she's not gay. Ummmmmm....OK.

That's some weird denial. She hands me a pre-fab story about how it all went

down and I am sitting there thinking " these dates don't add up " . As she tells

me how happy she is to not be lying anymore, it occurs to me that she is lying

right now. She didn't have ONE affair. She had at least two. (I found out

later through the woman she had an affair with that there were many, and they

spanned the entire 15 years of her marriage.)

>

> So this person who I looked up to, and even thought I was probably not " good "

enough or " nice " enough to be around was a serial cheater with a secret brother

and that weight she lost until her bones were showing? Not stress-induced

forgetting to eat. Bulimia.

>

> It just rocked my world. Things started to come into focus and I realized

that her family was not perfect. Her parents hated each other, her mother

begged her to stay married because she loved her daughter's husband. She knew

she was having affairs, but wanted her to stay married for her own selfish

reasons. Her mother punished her for the divorce by refusing to let her have

dinner parties at their house anymore.

>

> I tried to talk to her about how hurtful it had been for me to be shut out

for two years. I told her I thought she was mad at me and she said I was the

fifth person to say that to her. So my reaction was NORMAL. Felt good to know.

I said, " why didn't you tell me the truth when I asked if you were mad at me? "

and she said she told me she was not mad at me and that was the truth.

>

> I figured I could forgive the past, but as I started thinking about it later,

I realized that after 7 years of what I thought was a close friendship, if she

hadn't opened up yet, she never would. She was also acting like a victim with

her " I was struggling with my sexuality " thing. I guess I could understand a

couple of weeks of cheating on that pretext, but the two years that she

confessed to? It sill hadn't occurred to her that that was really, really

wrong. Also, her husband was refusing to speak to her anymore (he had moved

out) and she was mad about that.

>

> In the end, I thought she is never going to open up to me, and I was realizing

her perfect family was actually a huge mess, and she was working really hard to

hide that too. She told me one thing and someone else another. I felt like to

continue our friendship, I had to fake like everything was fine when it wasn't.

IT FELT JUST LIKE WITH NADA.

>

> I was at the end of my rope in the respect of having fake friendships, having

my boundaries trampled on, and having to spend an hour a day on the phone with

my nada, pretending I didn't hate her. I just couldn't fake it anymore, with

anything. I was not living authentically. My friend NEEDED me to keep faking

it. Keep acting like everything was cool. She had very firm boundaries, and I

knew she needed me to pretend everything was cool and that my opinion of her had

not been drastically altered. I didn't think she would ever open up to me, and

I didn't feel we could really have an authentic friendship.

>

> On the one hand, she was the greatest friend I ever had. Super supportive,

always there to listen, always on my side, so so safe. Very considerate.

>

> On the other hand, I had no idea who she was.

>

> So I just walked away, with no explanation, because she did not seem to want

the truth. She wanted me to be fake and polite, like her and her family. It

was making me sick.

>

> I bump into her on occasion and I always say hi and make small talk but that's

it.

>

> So I either felt compelled to tell you this story because it might be a good

perspective for you to have, something to think about, OR I just needed to get

it off my chest again.

>

> Not sure which! :)

>

> Deanna

>

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Arianna, I do think there is a difference between pretending and choosing to not

reveal everything. Those are terrific examples of times when it would be very

difficult and perhaps not even appropriate to respond. Of course, understanding

appropriate is not my strongest point, being a KO!

Thank you for considering my post without getting defensive. I'm not saying

that I think you need to do anything differently than you are right now. I just

wanted to offer that perspective of what could happen if things get too far with

someone you have been friends with for years. When, what and how to reveal

things is up to you, and it sounds like you are on the road to finding that

balance. You are going to be a great doctor!

Deanna

> >

> > Arianna, funny you should mention that. I had a friend who I told

everything to, whom I thought I was close with. When I would ask her how she

was, she always just said, " fine " . She almost never spoke of any problems, so I

eventually accepted that she didn't have any. (I was suspicious at first, but

after several years, I figured her life was just perfect.) I did always know

that she had several people whom she was closer with than me, but for me, she

was my closest friend.

> >

> > She was hiding at least two huge secrets. One, she had a brother with

Down's, whom her parents had put in a home after he was born. A sort of halfway

house. (they could afford this). He was still considered family and he came

over every Christmas. Every year I would ask her how was her Christmas and she

would carefully avoid mentioning this brother. (At 36 she still lived with her

parents). One day she told me about him. She only told me about him because I

would be meeting him at a family gathering. I felt hurt. I think she was

ashamed that he was given up.

> >

> > The other huge secret was her multiple affairs. The last 2 years of her

marriage, I think the cheating really escalated (she was mostly cheating with

women BTW). I noticed SOMETHING was wrong. I thought she was mad at me. I

confronted her by e-mail, so she would not feel cornered and she said she was

not mad at me and nothing could be further from the truth, but she did not

mention any explanation for her recent temper and rudeness.

> >

> > Soooo... because I thought she was the nicest/greatest person in the world

and I didn't have a TON of friends, I just let it continue. She was grumpy a

lot and gave me a lot of fake smiles. Inside, I felt our friendship was over

and I grieved it, but she was in the middle of working on a campaign for the

state ballot, and I didn't want to " bother " her with my problem. During this 2

year period, her mother also became cool towards me.

> >

> > Then, out of the blue, she tells me she's getting a divorce and will only

say that she's " not feeling it " anymore with her husband. Again, I felt hurt

that I had no idea there were any problems.

> >

> > Months later she takes me to a bar and tells me " the truth " about why she

got a divorce. Says she's with a woman now but she's not gay. Ummmmmm....OK.

That's some weird denial. She hands me a pre-fab story about how it all went

down and I am sitting there thinking " these dates don't add up " . As she tells

me how happy she is to not be lying anymore, it occurs to me that she is lying

right now. She didn't have ONE affair. She had at least two. (I found out

later through the woman she had an affair with that there were many, and they

spanned the entire 15 years of her marriage.)

> >

> > So this person who I looked up to, and even thought I was probably not

" good " enough or " nice " enough to be around was a serial cheater with a secret

brother and that weight she lost until her bones were showing? Not

stress-induced forgetting to eat. Bulimia.

> >

> > It just rocked my world. Things started to come into focus and I realized

that her family was not perfect. Her parents hated each other, her mother

begged her to stay married because she loved her daughter's husband. She knew

she was having affairs, but wanted her to stay married for her own selfish

reasons. Her mother punished her for the divorce by refusing to let her have

dinner parties at their house anymore.

> >

> > I tried to talk to her about how hurtful it had been for me to be shut out

for two years. I told her I thought she was mad at me and she said I was the

fifth person to say that to her. So my reaction was NORMAL. Felt good to know.

I said, " why didn't you tell me the truth when I asked if you were mad at me? "

and she said she told me she was not mad at me and that was the truth.

> >

> > I figured I could forgive the past, but as I started thinking about it

later, I realized that after 7 years of what I thought was a close friendship,

if she hadn't opened up yet, she never would. She was also acting like a victim

with her " I was struggling with my sexuality " thing. I guess I could understand

a couple of weeks of cheating on that pretext, but the two years that she

confessed to? It sill hadn't occurred to her that that was really, really

wrong. Also, her husband was refusing to speak to her anymore (he had moved

out) and she was mad about that.

> >

> > In the end, I thought she is never going to open up to me, and I was

realizing her perfect family was actually a huge mess, and she was working

really hard to hide that too. She told me one thing and someone else another.

I felt like to continue our friendship, I had to fake like everything was fine

when it wasn't. IT FELT JUST LIKE WITH NADA.

> >

> > I was at the end of my rope in the respect of having fake friendships,

having my boundaries trampled on, and having to spend an hour a day on the phone

with my nada, pretending I didn't hate her. I just couldn't fake it anymore,

with anything. I was not living authentically. My friend NEEDED me to keep

faking it. Keep acting like everything was cool. She had very firm boundaries,

and I knew she needed me to pretend everything was cool and that my opinion of

her had not been drastically altered. I didn't think she would ever open up to

me, and I didn't feel we could really have an authentic friendship.

> >

> > On the one hand, she was the greatest friend I ever had. Super supportive,

always there to listen, always on my side, so so safe. Very considerate.

> >

> > On the other hand, I had no idea who she was.

> >

> > So I just walked away, with no explanation, because she did not seem to want

the truth. She wanted me to be fake and polite, like her and her family. It

was making me sick.

> >

> > I bump into her on occasion and I always say hi and make small talk but

that's it.

> >

> > So I either felt compelled to tell you this story because it might be a good

perspective for you to have, something to think about, OR I just needed to get

it off my chest again.

> >

> > Not sure which! :)

> >

> > Deanna

> >

>

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Hi Arianna, I think it's wonderful that you've nurtured and grown the good in

yourself so much. It's obvious that you are a way better daughter than your

mother deserves and that she uses your positive ideals to her benefit. If you

didn't believe in not leaving her to face old age alone, if you weren't willing

to selflessly help her while being abused and cut our of her will - can you

imagine the position she would be in? A therapist once pointed out to me that

because of that type of situation - it is actually you who has great power over

her, and she knows it which is why she tries to keep control however she can. I

haven't read all the replies on the thread yet but looking forward to seeing

what others say. I'm guessing many will talk about setting boundaries with her

about what you will and won't tolerate....given you are all she's got she may

actually cave if she realizes you are serious. Then again she's got a mental

illness so maybe not. That's so much of the tragedy in that it is so hard to

ever resolve anything normally with them.

Thanks you for sharing about Skype...I wish I could use it. A funny story for

you about why not. I heard about how I could record with it and call from it

to a regular phone number. So I got all set up to do it and told my nada I'd

be calling from my computer and guess what she wanted to talk on her computer

too - *with video*. Can you imagine those phone calls with video???? I

quickly discovered that the microphone didn't work (for real) and just can't

figure out how to fix it...

Good luck,

>

> Dear ,

>

> Thank you for the kind and thoughtful words. I have reread your post three

times. I know it seems silly, but I do find comfort knowing that someone

understands (as much as I hate the fact that ANY of us have had to live the kind

of life that makes us understand this madness).

>

> As far as the recording, I was using Skype to talk to her and I have found a

program called " Total Recorder " that works very well in recording skype

conversations (and supposedly other over-the-internet audio, although I have

only tried it with Skype). You can download it from cnet.com. Ever since I got

the program, I have been trying to have our conversations over Skype (although

she still insists on the phone more often), so I can record them, because the

twisted logic and the really horrid things she says are hard to believe (even

for me) after I hang up. I often find myself sitting and wondering, did she

really say THAT?

>

> What do I fear in going LC or NC? That's a great questions I worry that she

will be even more miserable than she is now, I feel like a bad person for

abandoning someone (and my own mother at that!) who has an obvious mental

illness. I am afraid of the example this will set for my kids - will they think

it is OK to turn away from a person in need, especially family? Thank goodness

they have never, ever had to experience even one percent of the horror with

which I had to grow up, and our family is very warm, nurturing and all of us are

thankfully quite sane (by all, even professional, accounts), but still...

>

> My mom is getting older and she may even have legitimate health problems (how

much of it is legitimate? I have no clue), and she has absolutely nobody to take

care of her. She has alienated most, if not all, family and friends. I'm all

there is and if by some cruel twist of fate she ends up with cancer (her 30-year

smoking history in mind!) I will be the one taking care of her.

>

> Other than that there is nothing else that keeps me from going LC or NC. I

have no expectations of anything from her, no support, no comfort, no

inheritance. I am not in her will, she has said this many times and has made it

amply clear (she even showed me a copy of the will to make sure that I " know " ),

as she plans to leave her multimillion dollar fortune to various institutions.

Many of my friends get hung up on this fact and they think I should be angry

about this - strangely, I am not. In fact, this is the part that bothers me the

LEAST (in fact, not at all). It is her (and my step-dad's, who passed away

almost 15 years ago, shortly after my father) money and she should do whatever

makes her happy. All I ever wanted from her was unconditional love, comfort and

kindness. Knowing that I will never get that is what hurts me.

>

> Arianna

>

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" now I am trying to " kill " her by making her angry and giving her a heart

attack. "

YIKES. seriously. you can't make this stuff up. I have been killing my mom by

causing her to have a heart attack for years. I had a dream that by going NC or

LC, that she died and at her funeral, my dad said it was MY fault she was dead.

I can't tell you how I have been waiting for the " she's dead and it's your

fault " phone call.

I have a sad thought that in the end, when she does die and I am of course told

it was MY fault - that I get so angry I scream " well, it's about damn time, I've

been killing her my entire life. Finally, she's dead. I can stop being afraid of

killing her for once in my pathetic life " . then I want to cry. I don't " wish

her dead " and I just get down on myself for feeling guilty that that thought

could even go thru my head. but, thanks all for reminding me, " it's not me. "

this stuff is so real for us. it's torture sometimes. twisted, sick, emotional

abuse. Who should go thru their entire life, since they were like 2 years old -

waiting to hear that they have killed " mommy " . ugh. I am 55 and still afraid of

killing her. I am soooo over this! lol. it's kind of good when you can finally

find your anger huh? (I think this came from your post. sorry if not. I

couldn't re-find it, going by memory which is never good. lol.) warmly, be.

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I am so sorry you're going through this.

I believe this is typical bpd behavior. I was at fault for my mother's

excessive smoking and her impending death since I was 2. Its their way to try

to manipulate your emotions.

In a message dated 6/11/2010 3:15:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

AmethystWomoon@... writes:

" now I am trying to " kill " her by making her angry and giving her a heart

attack. "

YIKES. seriously. you can't make this stuff up. I have been killing my mom

by causing her to have a heart attack for years. I had a dream that by

going NC or LC, that she died and at her funeral, my dad said it was MY fault

she was dead. I can't tell you how I have been waiting for the " she's dead

and it's your fault " phone call.

I have a sad thought that in the end, when she does die and I am of course

told it was MY fault - that I get so angry I scream " well, it's about damn

time, I've been killing her my entire life. Finally, she's dead. I can

stop being afraid of killing her for once in my pathetic life " . then I want to

cry. I don't " wish her dead " and I just get down on myself for feeling

guilty that that thought could even go thru my head. but, thanks all for

reminding me, " it's not me. " this stuff is so real for us. it's torture

sometimes. twisted, sick, emotional abuse. Who should go thru their entire

life,

since they were like 2 years old - waiting to hear that they have killed

" mommy " . ugh. I am 55 and still afraid of killing her. I am soooo over this!

lol. it's kind of good when you can finally find your anger huh? (I think

this came from your post. sorry if not. I couldn't re-find it, going by memory

which is never good. lol.) warmly, be.

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My mother did this same exact thing. I was responsible for her health, yet

she wouldn't do a single thing to aid herself in getting well -- starting

with actually doing what the doctor said to do rather than sitting in a

recliner waiting to die.

In a message dated 6/10/2010 1:31:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

romntclibra@... writes:

Your nada is selfish; abusive; demented; manipulative; controlling; evil

and vile. She is sooooooooo jealous of your husband and your love for him she

can't see straight. I can REALLY relate to a lot of what you said because

my nada calls me ungrateful - she was THE best mother - I am stupid - who

the hell do I think I am a Princess any time I stand up for myself - pulls

the sympathy card whenever it suits her - says I am not there for her - that

I am a BAD daughter - that I never loved her and sometimes even that I am

responsible for her ailing health when she won't take care of herself like

she should - won't do the testing her doctor required etc. Trust me,

sweetie, it isn't you. It is HER and her BPD. It drives her to fear your

abandoning her so much that she is petrified that you will cut her out of your

life

in favor of your husband and children, which you have every right to do,

and she will lose another loved one - not to death, but due to her own

behavior which she would never accept that she actually caused 98% of this

herself. You need to look at this for what she is and as difficult as it is and

trust me, I know it is difficult because we've been conditioned to OBEY

from a VERY early age but if you don't obey her she will rant and rave but

she'll get over it. She will have to. I hang up on mine with a " I love you

too " sarcastically when she REALLY gets out of hand, but a few days later her

'don't leave me' kicks in after her 'I hate you " has ended and she is back

to herself 'til next time and there always IS a next time.

Think of what is best for YOU - your husband and your children. She'll get

over it. It isn't selfish on your part - it is SURVIVAL.

Trust me your nada would NEVER give up HER husband (if she had one) for

you and you wouldn't want her to because you're SANE and she's INSANE and

irrational.

I hope this helps.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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I guess because I am in such a framework of childhood trauma right now with all

the insanity going on in my family I just read almost every paragraph in your

post as your mother saying 'you victimized me, you victimized me, you victimized

me.'

It's a small possibility that there is trauma she is projecting that she just

doesn't remember, but it sounds like with your family history there is a good

deal she remembers and is conscious of. You DIDN'T DO IT. YOU WEREN'T THERE.

It's such a tragically cheap cop-out for her to project that undoubtedly heinous

history of hers onto you. You have to be where the buck stops. I think that is

sometimes all you can do in this life. Major kudos for being in medical school,

that is really amazing.

You know what a misdiagnosis is, right? What would you think about a doctor that

knew a patient was misdiagnosed, but continued to treat them for the wrong

diagnosis instead of trying to find the right one? That's pretty unethical, yet

every time you allow your mother to abuse you like this it's what you are doing.

It becomes even more unethical when you find out the patient is actually well,

and the doctor shouldn't be treating them at all. He's just a scam artist, with

bad motives. If you were a doctor and found out about it you wouldn't undertake

a huge search to understand his motives and be empathetic, you'd do your level

best to remove the patient from his care and put a stop to the situation. That's

what you have to do for yourself, and for her. You can't control the rest of it,

only the removing yourself from the situation, which I believe is a spiritual

thing where you say ' I love you so much that I will not allow you to damage

yourself spiritually by abusing me' and walk away. You can't control what

happens after that.

Congrats on your successes in school and life, it sounds like you have a great

family of your own and a level head on your shoulders.

>

> Here I am sitting crying tonight. I am at my wits end. I sit here wondering

about what terrible thing I must have done in my life to deserve this madness

and pain. I am going to go LC, I just can't take it any longer. I am at the

point where I would go NC, except it will be only on my end since my conscience

is just not releasing me completely and I know I won't be able to ignore a call

or email if she contacts me. I am an only child and she has managed to alienate

just about everyone, so I can't abandon her completely.

>

> Those of you who were kind enough to read some of my posts and have amazing

memories might recall that last December there was high drama surrounding my

mother's health. Three days before my finals began (as a first semester medical

student) she told me that she had just gotten back from the hospital ER where

she had taken herself at the insistence of some friends (she had been having

some chest pains). As you may imagine, I was a bad daughter for not even knowing

that she had gone to the hospital, but that's just a minor issue. At the ER they

had found nothing wrong with her heart, but the X-ray they took of her showed a

tiny lesion on her lung, which could have been a tumor. This news was very

upsetting and stressful, especially during finals week. My mind kept running

through various scenarios, one gloomier than the next, non-stop. The kids and I

went to visit her during winter break (a weak after finals), and she seemed

perfectly fine. She had plenty of energy and anger to berate me on a daily

basis. The doctors told her that she should get a follow-up scan in 6 months

(this May) to check and see if this was a tumor, in which case the next step

would be a biopsy.

>

> Throughout the spring semester the berating, badgering, name-calling continued

with regularity. In fact, her BPD seemed to be flaring up progressively. Over

the past few months she has been single-mindedly obsessed with my father and all

the ways in which he (with the help of my grandparents, HER parents) has

" programmed " me on a " cellular level " to continue abusing and killing her even

after his death (he committed suicide 15 years ago). My father was physically

abusive, which I cannot and will not excuse. She was verbally abusive and at

times tried to reciprocate the physical abuse as well, which still does not

excuse his behavior, but certainly does not make her a completely innocent

victim either. He was an alcoholic with a horribly painful past. She was someone

with a painful past herself – her father and uncle were classic cases of NPD (my

grandfather, who is still alive, is really a textbook example and his brother

was worse), while her mother took out all her frustrations with her husband out

on her kids by beating them. I have tried, I have tried so hard to be kind and

understanding. I have forgiven my parents for the pain they have heaped upon me,

for unleashing their combined misery in my young and innocent life. Despite

this, I am still a horrible person. I am the world's most ungrateful daughter. I

am ruthless and callous. I have no empathy. How can I pretend that I am going to

be a doctor and care for people when I don't even care about my own mother, who

has been THE " greatest mother in the world " . How could I " use " my mother

throughout my childhood only to shatter all her " hopes and dreams " when I grew

up. I have ruined my mother's life and health, and now I am trying to " kill " her

by making her angry and giving her a heart attack.

>

> So, in the final 2 weeks of school this spring semester, culminating in 4

exams, one of which was a comprehensive exam covering all the material we have

learned over the past year, my mother's health problems flared up again. She was

feeling horribly, her heart was aching, her chest was aching, her arm was going

numb, she had vertigo and she was losing consciousness several times a day,

according to what she told me. She would be on the phone with me and then she

would become quiet for a minute and I would call out, then she would come back

and say " I just passed out again " . I was a COMPLETE basketcase. I was under so

much stress and pressure academically (I don't mean to sound full-of-myself, and

when people used to tell me that there is no schooling as rigorous as medical

school, I thought they were exaggerating, but I have come to find out that they

weren't – I studied pretty serious disciplines as an undergrad (biochem and

computer science) and I got a master's degree from a top 10 program in the

country, but NOTHING compares to medical school – the sheer volume of stuff you

have to learn, understand, remember then regurgitate and APPLY on an exam is

breathtaking). The situation with her health started pushing me over the edge.

Although, I would catch her off guard sometimes (when I would call and she would

be on the other line with someone and she'd switch over sounding very strong and

chipper, then suddenly assume her " frail old lady " voice as soon as she realized

I was on the line), and a part of me wondered how much of her illness was

psychological/psychosomatic, I still couldn't disregard it, not even one little

bit. Part of this has to do with the fact that I never saw the signs and never

anticipated my father's suicide, so ever since then I always choose to err on

the side of caution. I would rather be overly concerned and find out there's

nothing serious, then the opposite.

>

> I found a good cardiologist and finally convinced her to go see him during the

last few days of school. They checked her and said that she might have a murmur

(I have had a murmur my whole life, and have had intermittent mild heart

problems throughout my life, so it didn't shock me too much). Regardless of my

comfort level with my own heart problems, any real heart problem she may have is

still very worrisome to me (first, because it appears as something new, and

second, because she is 60), but what is more worrisome to me is the situation

with her lung. She has yet to get the follow-up CT, I think. Although, she is

refusing to tell me when she is planning to get it, or even if she has already

gotten it. She has said several times that she is a poor, used, discarded

servant and nobody is there to care for her and take her to the doctor (mind

you, despite all her real or imagined health problems, she just planted 20 trees

in her yard a week ago and she can still muster up enough energy to go off on me

for 30 minutes without taking a single deep breath, not to mention that she is a

retire (by her choice) university professor and perfectly spry and capable of

driving herself to the doctor). Over the last couple of weeks she has also told

me in NO uncertain terms that she will not tell me anything about the medical

findings from this point on. Today, she made it clear that it was " payback " for

the secrets I have kept from her – she is trying to show me how it feels to be

" in the dark " (never mind the fact that the only reason I ever kept secrets from

her is that the smallest thing could make her become unhinged and completely

lose it, and every time she would plow full force into me I would find myself on

the brink of suicidal thoughts). Furthermore, the condition for her to " share "

her life with me is for me to " get rid of " my husband. As long as he is in my

life, she will not share anything with me from now on.

>

> Going back to the day after my last exam (May 15), I called her in the morning

and asked her how she was. Her response: " Perfectly fine, never better! " I was

relieved and irate at the same time. She had been playing the frail little old

lady card on me for two weeks, almost derailing my exams, and then she was

suddenly " perfect " ?

>

> What is ironic is that she claims that I make her angry without regard to her

heart issues, but never mind that I have had heart problems since the age of 4

and she has never once remembered them during her rages (only afterwards she

would sometimes become contrite when she saw how bad a shape I was in, on the

few occasions when I would become so ill that it would make me hysterical and I

would turn blue during her rages). Not to mention that she has no consideration

for my stress level during as important a time in my life as year-end exams.

>

> Things were a little bit better in the second half of May, but then at the end

she began spiraling down again. I knew it was coming. The anniversary of my

aunt's (her sister's) death was this week and she has ZERO emotional regulation,

she has absolutely never been able to handle death. Last week she was

practically starving herself and sounding (at least on the phone with me) like

she was two breaths away from passing out (or even away!) any minute. At the end

of last week she got a call from the cardiologist regarding some test (which she

has not revealed to me) they had done – they had the results and needed to

discuss them with her in person. I got more worried, but she was bullying me

still and I was trying not to get sucked into the vortex. Then last Saturday, I

talked to her, and while the conversation itself was terrible (I actually

recorded that conversation and I am glad I did, because at one point I literally

thought maybe I was going CRAZY, because of the illogical things she was saying

- up was down and down was up, I had to go back and listen to the recording

later to be reassured that I hadn't lost it, and I was being perfectly

logical!), what got to me was the fact that she had a bit of a cough. I wasn't

sure if she had a bit of a cold or allergies, but I couldn't help wondering if

it was something with her lung. I had a very fitful night Saturday/Sunday and

barely slept.

>

> On Sunday, I caved to my inner softness, called her up and offered to bring my

kids to spend part of their summer vacation with her (they won't finish school

for another week). She perked up immediately, which I had expected. I know she

is really depressed about her sister and I know she is missing my kids

(somewhere amid the BPD madness there is also a fierce, though often twisted,

love, and I know she loves my kids more than life itself, in her own way), so I

was hoping that spending time with the kids would get her past this tough

junction. She told me that she would pay for the kids' plane tickets but NOT for

mine (my mother is wealthy, not Wall Street CEO filthy rich, but very wealthy,

while I am in a totally impecunious state, burdened by massive student loans).

Her reason: if it weren't for my husband being in my life (and in my home), she

would come to MY house, then she could take the kids on a nice vacation to

Florida, California and the Grand Canyon and I wouldn't have to spend any money,

but she'll be damned if she will spend a penny to accommodate my bad life

choices and him. I wouldn't be able to go on vacation with them because school

starts again in July for me, so I would basically take a weekend trip to drop

off the kids with her. I asked her if she felt physically well enough for such

vigorous vacation plans and she insisted that she was fine, and if she felt

unwell she would immediately buy tickets for me to come pick up the kids from

wherever they would be with her. Things seemed to be looking up (never mind the

fact that I was going to have to shell out around $600 for my ticket, I was

willing to do that, to give her a chance to enjoy part of her summer in the

company of my kids – who really are walking rays of sunshine, although I may be

biased in my assessment!

>

> I told the kids about these plans on Sunday and they have been excited. Then

for the past 3 days, I tried to pin down some dates with her and work out a good

itinerary. I offered to fly the kids to Orlando (since she was planning to take

them to Disney World, the new Harry Potter park, etc.), then I asked her for a

date (or at least a range) when she would be willing/able to bring them back. My

husband will not be living at home at the end of the summer (we had to move for

me to go to med school and he gave up a great job to support me during this

first year, we had hoped that he would find a job near my school, but so far he

has been unsuccessful locally, and we are barely holding our finances together,

so he will be moving for a new job in August). This whole time she has been

hammering on the fact that she " CANNOT " come to my home to see me or pick up my

kids as long as " HE is there " , since it will cause her to " have a massive heart

attack and die on the spot " . Well, I kept telling her that he would not be here

in August, so she can come bring the kids and stay for a visit. That is not good

enough – as long as he is still in my life then " it is just a charade " . She

refuses to " be kept in a small compartment " in my life (it is not my husband or

I who have a problem with her coming to visit, she can come and go ANY time, he

is even willing to make himself very scarce when she is around (which he has

done in the past)), since this is simply the " continuation of [my] father's

plan " (remember that my father killed himself 15 years ago!). He wanted her to

" be a servant and raise his child " and then " throw her out " of my life, and I

have completed his plan! He was " constantly brainwashing " me and " excluding " her

from my life and HE is the reason why I do not love and respect her. She has

always served everyone, she has been victimized, she has suffered, she has moved

mountains to give me the life of a princess (this would be funny if it weren't

so horribly tragic and I would laugh if I weren't feeling like howling right

now!), and then she has been cast aside because of my father's (the evil

mastermind!) plan to eliminate her from my life. Btw, she is all about personal

responsibility until it becomes about her.

>

> I forgot to mention that during our recorded conversation last Saturday she

told me that unless I was going to admit, accept and declare repeatedly that she

is the world's most amazing mother, I don't deserve for her to speak to me.

>

> So, my kids talked to her on Monday and my sweet older son drafted a wonderful

itinerary for their vacation. He worked on it for two evenings and emailed it to

her last night. Yesterday evening I made a bunch of reservations and put tickets

on hold. The reservations expired before I could get a straight answer from her

about her preferred dates. So I spent another hour making more reservations this

evening and putting more tickets on hold. Finally, as I was finalizing

everything and getting ready to start purchasing the tickets, she lost it. She

called me every name under the sun – I am a base and venal person, I don't love

her, I have never loved her, I have never respected her, I have never treated

her like a mother, if I were capable of honest reflection then I would know that

she is obviously right, but since I am too blinded and brainwashed to see the

truth I will continue to abuse her, I am a terrible mother compared to her, I am

a ruthless, heartless person devoid of empathy, how can I even think about being

a doctor, I wouldn't care if she had a heart attack and died right now while

talking to me, I probably wouldn't even think about it, I was continuing my

father's abuse of her, I owe her everything and she did everything for me and

sacrificed her life and I am a heartless ingrate, etc. etc.

>

> At this point, my own heart started acting up (I get really bad palpitations

when I am under a lot of stress, my heart starts beating very erratically, this

is not something I openly share with people (except for this wonderful group of

strangers on the internet!), but my mother (along with my husband and my 2 best

friends) knows this about me – she was there when I was a candidate for OPEN

HEART SURGERY at age 5, thankfully I was treated and was able to recover from

the more major issues without needing the surgery! I told her that since I was

such a terrible person and basically replacement of my father in her life it

would be best for us to stop the conversation at this point. She hung up, then

called back and yelled at me 3-4 more times (and hung up each time after she was

done berating me). She hasn't called in the last 30 minutes or so (I had to

interrupt this LONG post several times to answer her calls)… and I am hoping she

won't call any more (at least not tonight, please!).

>

> I am tired, I am spent, I am done… I can't keep spinning in this mad vortex

and continue to meet the demands of my own life. I am finally so close to

achieving my dream (I have wanted to be a doctor since I was 4! and amidst all

the drama and trauma, I got so hopelessly derailed that there were times I

thought I would never get to this point). I just finished my first year in

medical school, I have a chance to be who I have been born to be (I know it

sounds cheesy, but I have always felt like medicine is my calling, I know even

most (if not all) of my classmates think that " medicine as a calling " is such a

crazy, " quaint " , idealistic notion, but I do think it is a calling – being able

to put the needs and the well-being of others, most often complete strangers,

above your own, to serve them in their most challenging hour, to hold the

responsibility and the privilege of guarding someone else's health and life, is

deeply meaningful to me). I want to do this for myself, I also want to do this

for my children. I have 3 more years before getting my M.D. and getting my first

job as a resident doctor. I have never been this close and I don't even want to

consider the possibility of not getting there.

>

> I know I am already feeling guilty about the fact that I am contemplating the

decision to stop contacting her. I know she will use that decision to skewer me

– she will paint and see me as heartless, abandoning her especially when she is

having health problems. She will never let me forget it or live it down. I can

already feel my resolve weakening and I know I will probably not be able to go

more than a few weeks without finally breaking down and calling her. I also

don't know what to tell my kids. I feel terrible about setting them up for such

disappointment about this vacation (I just can't put any more energy into making

it happen), I wish I hadn't told them about the plan until I knew for sure

(tickets purchased!) that it was going to happen. I don't know where and how to

guide their relationship with their grandmother. I know I will answer her calls

and I will acknowledge her emails. I am also feeling so much grief at the

realization that my relationship with my mother is never going to be healthy. I

miss her and I love her and I want to be happy with her. I want her to love me

more than she hates my husband. I want her to love me more than she hates my

father. I want her to STOP, stop living in the past, stop assuming and relishing

the victim role, stop being so destructively (and self-destructively!)

self-centered. I want her to stop finding fault with everyone and everything. I

want her to learn to forgive and FORGET. I want her to see the world in all its

shades of gray. I want her to stop thinking that it is OK for her to insult

everyone else and to stop walking around with the assumption that everyone

offends, slights, demeans and disrespects her. I want her to stop fixating on

assumptions and wild theories and convincing herself that they are true by

repeating them incessantly (e.g., " your father has programmed you on a cellular

level to hate me " ). And this list can go on and on… but I know none of these

changes will happen, the ugly monster that is BPD is never going to let her go

and is never going to stop torturing her (I know she is tortured and miserable)

and me. I feel so stuck – I don't know how to fix this, I don't know how to live

with this and I don't know how to get out of it.

>

> For me things are complicated by the fact that I am an only child, and even

more complicated by the fact that I lost my father so tragically (yes, I know

there was nothing I could have done, but knowing and feeling are two different

things), and I feel like my mother knows that she can exploit these weaknesses

of mine.

>

> For a couple of years things seemed to be getting better for me (and even for

my mother I think too, objectively, based on other people's observations) –

after I figured out that I wasn't crazy, that the madness was real and even had

a 3-letter acronym, after I read books and joined this group, after I learned

how to set at least a few small but firm boundaries, I felt like I had finally

emerged from a dark and scary place, I felt like I had a handle on things, I was

managing, I was coping, I had even found peace with most of it, but during this

past year things have been spiraling towards the abyss again. I am exhausted, I

can't do this any longer. I have spent 30 years of my life living under

continued emotional and psychological stress and strain… I can't do it any

longer, I am at my wit's end.

>

> Thank you for letting me vent. If you have read this far, thank you, thank

you, for your patience and kindness. I am sorry I rambled on for so long.

>

> Arianna

>

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dear, dear arianna, i am sooo pleased to hear you are successfully following

your calling to be a dr. and i hope and pray your plan to go lc with your nada

will allow you to proceed with it !  please remember how robust she has sounded

when answering the phone before knowing it was you on the line.. she is

perfectly fine (in my opinion!  except for her bpd) and in any case cannot be

cured by anything you can do for her.. too few people in this world get to

follow their dream and achieve it, let alone ko's !! please do what you need to

do to preserve your own sanity and health and let your nada live her life and be

free to live yours.  just my 2 cents worth and i know i do not carry your

guilt, only my own perspective on things.  i think you have done enuf as it is.

 rest easy .. and best wishes, ann

Subject: At the end of my rope... (sorry this is long)

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, June 9, 2010, 11:55 PM

 

Here I am sitting crying tonight. I am at my wits end. I sit here

wondering about what terrible thing I must have done in my life to deserve this

madness and pain. I am going to go LC, I just can't take it any longer. I am at

the point where I would go NC, except it will be only on my end since my

conscience is just not releasing me completely and I know I won't be able to

ignore a call or email if she contacts me. I am an only child and she has

managed to alienate just about everyone, so I can't abandon her completely.

Those of you who were kind enough to read some of my posts and have amazing

memories might recall that last December there was high drama surrounding my

mother's health. Three days before my finals began (as a first semester medical

student) she told me that she had just gotten back from the hospital ER where

she had taken herself at the insistence of some friends (she had been having

some chest pains). As you may imagine, I was a bad daughter for not even knowing

that she had gone to the hospital, but that's just a minor issue. At the ER they

had found nothing wrong with her heart, but the X-ray they took of her showed a

tiny lesion on her lung, which could have been a tumor. This news was very

upsetting and stressful, especially during finals week. My mind kept running

through various scenarios, one gloomier than the next, non-stop. The kids and I

went to visit her during winter break (a weak after finals), and she seemed

perfectly fine. She had plenty

of energy and anger to berate me on a daily basis. The doctors told her that

she should get a follow-up scan in 6 months (this May) to check and see if this

was a tumor, in which case the next step would be a biopsy.

Throughout the spring semester the berating, badgering, name-calling continued

with regularity. In fact, her BPD seemed to be flaring up progressively. Over

the past few months she has been single-mindedly obsessed with my father and all

the ways in which he (with the help of my grandparents, HER parents) has

" programmed " me on a " cellular level " to continue abusing and killing her even

after his death (he committed suicide 15 years ago). My father was physically

abusive, which I cannot and will not excuse. She was verbally abusive and at

times tried to reciprocate the physical abuse as well, which still does not

excuse his behavior, but certainly does not make her a completely innocent

victim either. He was an alcoholic with a horribly painful past. She was someone

with a painful past herself – her father and uncle were classic cases of NPD

(my grandfather, who is still alive, is really a textbook example and his

brother was worse), while her mother

took out all her frustrations with her husband out on her kids by beating them.

I have tried, I have tried so hard to be kind and understanding. I have forgiven

my parents for the pain they have heaped upon me, for unleashing their combined

misery in my young and innocent life. Despite this, I am still a horrible

person. I am the world's most ungrateful daughter. I am ruthless and callous. I

have no empathy. How can I pretend that I am going to be a doctor and care for

people when I don't even care about my own mother, who has been THE " greatest

mother in the world " . How could I " use " my mother throughout my childhood only

to shatter all her " hopes and dreams " when I grew up. I have ruined my mother's

life and health, and now I am trying to " kill " her by making her angry and

giving her a heart attack.

So, in the final 2 weeks of school this spring semester, culminating in 4 exams,

one of which was a comprehensive exam covering all the material we have learned

over the past year, my mother's health problems flared up again. She was feeling

horribly, her heart was aching, her chest was aching, her arm was going numb,

she had vertigo and she was losing consciousness several times a day, according

to what she told me. She would be on the phone with me and then she would become

quiet for a minute and I would call out, then she would come back and say " I

just passed out again " . I was a COMPLETE basketcase. I was under so much stress

and pressure academically (I don't mean to sound full-of-myself, and when people

used to tell me that there is no schooling as rigorous as medical school, I

thought they were exaggerating, but I have come to find out that they weren't

– I studied pretty serious disciplines as an undergrad (biochem and computer

science) and I

got a master's degree from a top 10 program in the country, but NOTHING

compares to medical school – the sheer volume of stuff you have to learn,

understand, remember then regurgitate and APPLY on an exam is breathtaking). The

situation with her health started pushing me over the edge. Although, I would

catch her off guard sometimes (when I would call and she would be on the other

line with someone and she'd switch over sounding very strong and chipper, then

suddenly assume her " frail old lady " voice as soon as she realized I was on the

line), and a part of me wondered how much of her illness was

psychological/psychosomatic, I still couldn't disregard it, not even one little

bit. Part of this has to do with the fact that I never saw the signs and never

anticipated my father's suicide, so ever since then I always choose to err on

the side of caution. I would rather be overly concerned and find out there's

nothing serious, then the opposite.

I found a good cardiologist and finally convinced her to go see him during the

last few days of school. They checked her and said that she might have a murmur

(I have had a murmur my whole life, and have had intermittent mild heart

problems throughout my life, so it didn't shock me too much). Regardless of my

comfort level with my own heart problems, any real heart problem she may have is

still very worrisome to me (first, because it appears as something new, and

second, because she is 60), but what is more worrisome to me is the situation

with her lung. She has yet to get the follow-up CT, I think. Although, she is

refusing to tell me when she is planning to get it, or even if she has already

gotten it. She has said several times that she is a poor, used, discarded

servant and nobody is there to care for her and take her to the doctor (mind

you, despite all her real or imagined health problems, she just planted 20 trees

in her yard a week ago and she

can still muster up enough energy to go off on me for 30 minutes without taking

a single deep breath, not to mention that she is a retire (by her choice)

university professor and perfectly spry and capable of driving herself to the

doctor). Over the last couple of weeks she has also told me in NO uncertain

terms that she will not tell me anything about the medical findings from this

point on. Today, she made it clear that it was " payback " for the secrets I have

kept from her – she is trying to show me how it feels to be " in the dark "

(never mind the fact that the only reason I ever kept secrets from her is that

the smallest thing could make her become unhinged and completely lose it, and

every time she would plow full force into me I would find myself on the brink of

suicidal thoughts). Furthermore, the condition for her to " share " her life with

me is for me to " get rid of " my husband. As long as he is in my life, she will

not share anything with me

from now on.

Going back to the day after my last exam (May 15), I called her in the morning

and asked her how she was. Her response: " Perfectly fine, never better! " I was

relieved and irate at the same time. She had been playing the frail little old

lady card on me for two weeks, almost derailing my exams, and then she was

suddenly " perfect " ?

What is ironic is that she claims that I make her angry without regard to her

heart issues, but never mind that I have had heart problems since the age of 4

and she has never once remembered them during her rages (only afterwards she

would sometimes become contrite when she saw how bad a shape I was in, on the

few occasions when I would become so ill that it would make me hysterical and I

would turn blue during her rages). Not to mention that she has no consideration

for my stress level during as important a time in my life as year-end exams.

Things were a little bit better in the second half of May, but then at the end

she began spiraling down again. I knew it was coming. The anniversary of my

aunt's (her sister's) death was this week and she has ZERO emotional regulation,

she has absolutely never been able to handle death. Last week she was

practically starving herself and sounding (at least on the phone with me) like

she was two breaths away from passing out (or even away!) any minute. At the end

of last week she got a call from the cardiologist regarding some test (which she

has not revealed to me) they had done – they had the results and needed to

discuss them with her in person. I got more worried, but she was bullying me

still and I was trying not to get sucked into the vortex. Then last Saturday, I

talked to her, and while the conversation itself was terrible (I actually

recorded that conversation and I am glad I did, because at one point I literally

thought maybe I was going CRAZY,

because of the illogical things she was saying - up was down and down was up, I

had to go back and listen to the recording later to be reassured that I hadn't

lost it, and I was being perfectly logical!), what got to me was the fact that

she had a bit of a cough. I wasn't sure if she had a bit of a cold or allergies,

but I couldn't help wondering if it was something with her lung. I had a very

fitful night Saturday/Sunday and barely slept.

On Sunday, I caved to my inner softness, called her up and offered to bring my

kids to spend part of their summer vacation with her (they won't finish school

for another week). She perked up immediately, which I had expected. I know she

is really depressed about her sister and I know she is missing my kids

(somewhere amid the BPD madness there is also a fierce, though often twisted,

love, and I know she loves my kids more than life itself, in her own way), so I

was hoping that spending time with the kids would get her past this tough

junction. She told me that she would pay for the kids' plane tickets but NOT for

mine (my mother is wealthy, not Wall Street CEO filthy rich, but very wealthy,

while I am in a totally impecunious state, burdened by massive student loans).

Her reason: if it weren't for my husband being in my life (and in my home), she

would come to MY house, then she could take the kids on a nice vacation to

Florida, California and the Grand

Canyon and I wouldn't have to spend any money, but she'll be damned if she will

spend a penny to accommodate my bad life choices and him. I wouldn't be able to

go on vacation with them because school starts again in July for me, so I would

basically take a weekend trip to drop off the kids with her. I asked her if she

felt physically well enough for such vigorous vacation plans and she insisted

that she was fine, and if she felt unwell she would immediately buy tickets for

me to come pick up the kids from wherever they would be with her. Things seemed

to be looking up (never mind the fact that I was going to have to shell out

around $600 for my ticket, I was willing to do that, to give her a chance to

enjoy part of her summer in the company of my kids – who really are walking

rays of sunshine, although I may be biased in my assessment!

I told the kids about these plans on Sunday and they have been excited. Then for

the past 3 days, I tried to pin down some dates with her and work out a good

itinerary. I offered to fly the kids to Orlando (since she was planning to take

them to Disney World, the new Harry Potter park, etc.), then I asked her for a

date (or at least a range) when she would be willing/able to bring them back. My

husband will not be living at home at the end of the summer (we had to move for

me to go to med school and he gave up a great job to support me during this

first year, we had hoped that he would find a job near my school, but so far he

has been unsuccessful locally, and we are barely holding our finances together,

so he will be moving for a new job in August). This whole time she has been

hammering on the fact that she " CANNOT " come to my home to see me or pick up my

kids as long as " HE is there " , since it will cause her to " have a massive heart

attack and die on

the spot " . Well, I kept telling her that he would not be here in August, so she

can come bring the kids and stay for a visit. That is not good enough – as

long as he is still in my life then " it is just a charade " . She refuses to " be

kept in a small compartment " in my life (it is not my husband or I who have a

problem with her coming to visit, she can come and go ANY time, he is even

willing to make himself very scarce when she is around (which he has done in the

past)), since this is simply the " continuation of [my] father's plan " (remember

that my father killed himself 15 years ago!). He wanted her to " be a servant and

raise his child " and then " throw her out " of my life, and I have completed his

plan! He was " constantly brainwashing " me and " excluding " her from my life and

HE is the reason why I do not love and respect her. She has always served

everyone, she has been victimized, she has suffered, she has moved mountains to

give me the life of a

princess (this would be funny if it weren't so horribly tragic and I would

laugh if I weren't feeling like howling right now!), and then she has been cast

aside because of my father's (the evil mastermind!) plan to eliminate her from

my life. Btw, she is all about personal responsibility until it becomes about

her.

I forgot to mention that during our recorded conversation last Saturday she told

me that unless I was going to admit, accept and declare repeatedly that she is

the world's most amazing mother, I don't deserve for her to speak to me.

So, my kids talked to her on Monday and my sweet older son drafted a wonderful

itinerary for their vacation. He worked on it for two evenings and emailed it to

her last night. Yesterday evening I made a bunch of reservations and put tickets

on hold. The reservations expired before I could get a straight answer from her

about her preferred dates. So I spent another hour making more reservations this

evening and putting more tickets on hold. Finally, as I was finalizing

everything and getting ready to start purchasing the tickets, she lost it. She

called me every name under the sun – I am a base and venal person, I don't

love her, I have never loved her, I have never respected her, I have never

treated her like a mother, if I were capable of honest reflection then I would

know that she is obviously right, but since I am too blinded and brainwashed to

see the truth I will continue to abuse her, I am a terrible mother compared to

her, I am a ruthless,

heartless person devoid of empathy, how can I even think about being a doctor,

I wouldn't care if she had a heart attack and died right now while talking to

me, I probably wouldn't even think about it, I was continuing my father's abuse

of her, I owe her everything and she did everything for me and sacrificed her

life and I am a heartless ingrate, etc. etc.

At this point, my own heart started acting up (I get really bad palpitations

when I am under a lot of stress, my heart starts beating very erratically, this

is not something I openly share with people (except for this wonderful group of

strangers on the internet!), but my mother (along with my husband and my 2 best

friends) knows this about me – she was there when I was a candidate for OPEN

HEART SURGERY at age 5, thankfully I was treated and was able to recover from

the more major issues without needing the surgery! I told her that since I was

such a terrible person and basically replacement of my father in her life it

would be best for us to stop the conversation at this point. She hung up, then

called back and yelled at me 3-4 more times (and hung up each time after she was

done berating me). She hasn't called in the last 30 minutes or so (I had to

interrupt this LONG post several times to answer her calls)… and I am hoping

she won't call any more

(at least not tonight, please!).

I am tired, I am spent, I am done… I can't keep spinning in this mad vortex

and continue to meet the demands of my own life. I am finally so close to

achieving my dream (I have wanted to be a doctor since I was 4! and amidst all

the drama and trauma, I got so hopelessly derailed that there were times I

thought I would never get to this point). I just finished my first year in

medical school, I have a chance to be who I have been born to be (I know it

sounds cheesy, but I have always felt like medicine is my calling, I know even

most (if not all) of my classmates think that " medicine as a calling " is such a

crazy, " quaint " , idealistic notion, but I do think it is a calling – being

able to put the needs and the well-being of others, most often complete

strangers, above your own, to serve them in their most challenging hour, to hold

the responsibility and the privilege of guarding someone else's health and life,

is deeply meaningful to me). I want to

do this for myself, I also want to do this for my children. I have 3 more years

before getting my M.D. and getting my first job as a resident doctor. I have

never been this close and I don't even want to consider the possibility of not

getting there.

I know I am already feeling guilty about the fact that I am contemplating the

decision to stop contacting her. I know she will use that decision to skewer me

– she will paint and see me as heartless, abandoning her especially when she

is having health problems. She will never let me forget it or live it down. I

can already feel my resolve weakening and I know I will probably not be able to

go more than a few weeks without finally breaking down and calling her. I also

don't know what to tell my kids. I feel terrible about setting them up for such

disappointment about this vacation (I just can't put any more energy into making

it happen), I wish I hadn't told them about the plan until I knew for sure

(tickets purchased!) that it was going to happen. I don't know where and how to

guide their relationship with their grandmother. I know I will answer her calls

and I will acknowledge her emails. I am also feeling so much grief at the

realization that my

relationship with my mother is never going to be healthy. I miss her and I love

her and I want to be happy with her. I want her to love me more than she hates

my husband. I want her to love me more than she hates my father. I want her to

STOP, stop living in the past, stop assuming and relishing the victim role, stop

being so destructively (and self-destructively!) self-centered. I want her to

stop finding fault with everyone and everything. I want her to learn to forgive

and FORGET. I want her to see the world in all its shades of gray. I want her to

stop thinking that it is OK for her to insult everyone else and to stop walking

around with the assumption that everyone offends, slights, demeans and

disrespects her. I want her to stop fixating on assumptions and wild theories

and convincing herself that they are true by repeating them incessantly (e.g.,

" your father has programmed you on a cellular level to hate me " ). And this list

can go on and on…

but I know none of these changes will happen, the ugly monster that is BPD is

never going to let her go and is never going to stop torturing her (I know she

is tortured and miserable) and me. I feel so stuck – I don't know how to fix

this, I don't know how to live with this and I don't know how to get out of it.

For me things are complicated by the fact that I am an only child, and even more

complicated by the fact that I lost my father so tragically (yes, I know there

was nothing I could have done, but knowing and feeling are two different

things), and I feel like my mother knows that she can exploit these weaknesses

of mine.

For a couple of years things seemed to be getting better for me (and even for my

mother I think too, objectively, based on other people's observations) – after

I figured out that I wasn't crazy, that the madness was real and even had a

3-letter acronym, after I read books and joined this group, after I learned how

to set at least a few small but firm boundaries, I felt like I had finally

emerged from a dark and scary place, I felt like I had a handle on things, I was

managing, I was coping, I had even found peace with most of it, but during this

past year things have been spiraling towards the abyss again. I am exhausted, I

can't do this any longer. I have spent 30 years of my life living under

continued emotional and psychological stress and strain… I can't do it any

longer, I am at my wit's end.

Thank you for letting me vent. If you have read this far, thank you, thank you,

for your patience and kindness. I am sorry I rambled on for so long.

Arianna

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Arianna,

I too am an only child. Reading your post reminded me of my own guilt at not

being able to met up to my mother's expectation or even my own ...and the guilt

that I have chosen to live with rather than the insanity of being hovered in by

my nada .

My nada live 3,000 miles away. Is not wealthy and knows I am not either.

Yet all of my married life has tried to make me feel guilty for not coming to

visit her. Has shamed me because she doesn't have a relationship with her

grandchildren. But the truth is she never had one with me either, and I don't

think she is capable of having one with my children. My kids can see through an

act.

I went no contact with my parents for two years. They could contact me but I

choose not to contact them. They had my phone number and address. Nada sent

me snail mails that could have been sent by Graham or a form letter with

the anthem at the end " Love " or " You are Loved " ...but there was nothing in the

body of the letter that told me that she was trying to connect with me as a

human in a motherly way.

My father got cancer, and fought it for 6 months. Two weeks before he died

my nada got someone else to call me. Actually that someone else really twisted

my nada 's arm to give her permission to call.

I called and that set up a whole set of event. I realized that my father

failing health was owed to her. She killed him. But he was a willing

participant all his life. She tried to place on me all the guilt for not being

there. She was very subtle not as overt as your nada. Very crafty...trying to

act like she and dad were close and I was the odd man out...it was her favorite

game with me. I was never good enough to be loved. I was always scapegoated.

I again went no contact when she was like ignoring me and wanting me to pay

attention to her. When she was hooking me in with " things " rather than trying

to build a relationship. I wanted to see how she worked...and it wasn't long

till I was a basket case. I asked a friend what to do and she suggested to stop

having any contact with her. My life started to get sane again.

During this time that I was in contact with her she had knee surgery. She

had was able to create a network of friends and family to come and help her.

She tried to make me feel guilty...it is the largest stick she can hit me with

and know that she can aim and hit hard. But I decided that I was married to my

husband not her. That to listen to her and let her run my family...which really

is the only thing that would " seem " to make her happy, was out of the question.

When I thought of all the things that my husband had done for me when my parents

abandoned me, it was an easy thing to let her go. Let God take care of her.

Let God " grow " her up. I knew that i had a responsibility to my husband and

children and always thinking and talking about mother and getting hysterical and

stressed out when there really was nothing that I could do or would do

differently was CRAZY. My kids were starting to think I was CRAZY and that

surly nada couldn't be that bad. But since I stopped playing on her stage which

means no contact...then I started to get my life back, and my peace. My nada

chose the relationship that she has with me...she is getting what she deserves.

I feel sorry for her, but I feel more sorry for me and my husband and

kids...whom she obviously doesn't really care about. I refuse to let my nada

be my Lord and Master. I refuse to have any other god...and my nada would have

liked to set her self up as a god...even using God's name in vain and trying to

get me to feel there was some sort of duty that was equal to my love of

God...there is a lot of religious abuse involved in my situation..as my father

was also a preacher.

Thank you for writing out your story. I really needed to hear it and to

realize that there is nothing that I could do for her. Even money wouldn't

solve our relationship problems. It isn't my fault.

....and it isn't your fault either.

My nada had to have a lot of drama around her when I was growing up...so much

so she had to be sick all the time. Her sickness was from migraines which were

probably caused by caffeine which the doctors put in her medicine and she drank

in coffee and tea. (I say it was from the caffeine because I have decided to go

caffeine free since I started suffering from migraines when I would go through

withdraws...and when I told her as a child maybe she should cut out caffeine she

told me it was in her meds.) Her choice to have headaches. I was her

caregiver...but I don't chose to ever be that again. I did it when I was

young...even blamed myself for her headaches...because I didn't pray enough or

wasn't quiet enough. ( " There are only two kinds of people in the world, those

that have headaches and those that give them " my mother) Not any more. I will

not feel guilty when that woman has never said she was sorry for anything that

she has ever done...but looked down on me and judged me all my life. Not

anymore will I be in her web. I am not good enough to be in your life...well

you are not good enough to be in my life nada.

I have to go.

Becky

>

> Here I am sitting crying tonight. I am at my wits end. I sit here wondering

about what terrible thing I must have done in my life to deserve this madness

and pain. I am going to go LC, I just can't take it any longer. I am at the

point where I would go NC, except it will be only on my end since my conscience

is just not releasing me completely and I know I won't be able to ignore a call

or email if she contacts me. I am an only child and she has managed to alienate

just about everyone, so I can't abandon her completely.

>

> Those of you who were kind enough to read some of my posts and have amazing

memories might recall that last December there was high drama surrounding my

mother's health. Three days before my finals began (as a first semester medical

student) she told me that she had just gotten back from the hospital ER where

she had taken herself at the insistence of some friends (she had been having

some chest pains). As you may imagine, I was a bad daughter for not even knowing

that she had gone to the hospital, but that's just a minor issue. At the ER they

had found nothing wrong with her heart, but the X-ray they took of her showed a

tiny lesion on her lung, which could have been a tumor. This news was very

upsetting and stressful, especially during finals week. My mind kept running

through various scenarios, one gloomier than the next, non-stop. The kids and I

went to visit her during winter break (a weak after finals), and she seemed

perfectly fine. She had plenty of energy and anger to berate me on a daily

basis. The doctors told her that she should get a follow-up scan in 6 months

(this May) to check and see if this was a tumor, in which case the next step

would be a biopsy.

>

> Throughout the spring semester the berating, badgering, name-calling continued

with regularity. In fact, her BPD seemed to be flaring up progressively. Over

the past few months she has been single-mindedly obsessed with my father and all

the ways in which he (with the help of my grandparents, HER parents) has

" programmed " me on a " cellular level " to continue abusing and killing her even

after his death (he committed suicide 15 years ago). My father was physically

abusive, which I cannot and will not excuse. She was verbally abusive and at

times tried to reciprocate the physical abuse as well, which still does not

excuse his behavior, but certainly does not make her a completely innocent

victim either. He was an alcoholic with a horribly painful past. She was someone

with a painful past herself – her father and uncle were classic cases of NPD (my

grandfather, who is still alive, is really a textbook example and his brother

was worse), while her mother took out all her frustrations with her husband out

on her kids by beating them. I have tried, I have tried so hard to be kind and

understanding. I have forgiven my parents for the pain they have heaped upon me,

for unleashing their combined misery in my young and innocent life. Despite

this, I am still a horrible person. I am the world's most ungrateful daughter. I

am ruthless and callous. I have no empathy. How can I pretend that I am going to

be a doctor and care for people when I don't even care about my own mother, who

has been THE " greatest mother in the world " . How could I " use " my mother

throughout my childhood only to shatter all her " hopes and dreams " when I grew

up. I have ruined my mother's life and health, and now I am trying to " kill " her

by making her angry and giving her a heart attack.

>

> So, in the final 2 weeks of school this spring semester, culminating in 4

exams, one of which was a comprehensive exam covering all the material we have

learned over the past year, my mother's health problems flared up again. She was

feeling horribly, her heart was aching, her chest was aching, her arm was going

numb, she had vertigo and she was losing consciousness several times a day,

according to what she told me. She would be on the phone with me and then she

would become quiet for a minute and I would call out, then she would come back

and say " I just passed out again " . I was a COMPLETE basketcase. I was under so

much stress and pressure academically (I don't mean to sound full-of-myself, and

when people used to tell me that there is no schooling as rigorous as medical

school, I thought they were exaggerating, but I have come to find out that they

weren't – I studied pretty serious disciplines as an undergrad (biochem and

computer science) and I got a master's degree from a top 10 program in the

country, but NOTHING compares to medical school – the sheer volume of stuff you

have to learn, understand, remember then regurgitate and APPLY on an exam is

breathtaking). The situation with her health started pushing me over the edge.

Although, I would catch her off guard sometimes (when I would call and she would

be on the other line with someone and she'd switch over sounding very strong and

chipper, then suddenly assume her " frail old lady " voice as soon as she realized

I was on the line), and a part of me wondered how much of her illness was

psychological/psychosomatic, I still couldn't disregard it, not even one little

bit. Part of this has to do with the fact that I never saw the signs and never

anticipated my father's suicide, so ever since then I always choose to err on

the side of caution. I would rather be overly concerned and find out there's

nothing serious, then the opposite.

>

> I found a good cardiologist and finally convinced her to go see him during the

last few days of school. They checked her and said that she might have a murmur

(I have had a murmur my whole life, and have had intermittent mild heart

problems throughout my life, so it didn't shock me too much). Regardless of my

comfort level with my own heart problems, any real heart problem she may have is

still very worrisome to me (first, because it appears as something new, and

second, because she is 60), but what is more worrisome to me is the situation

with her lung. She has yet to get the follow-up CT, I think. Although, she is

refusing to tell me when she is planning to get it, or even if she has already

gotten it. She has said several times that she is a poor, used, discarded

servant and nobody is there to care for her and take her to the doctor (mind

you, despite all her real or imagined health problems, she just planted 20 trees

in her yard a week ago and she can still muster up enough energy to go off on me

for 30 minutes without taking a single deep breath, not to mention that she is a

retire (by her choice) university professor and perfectly spry and capable of

driving herself to the doctor). Over the last couple of weeks she has also told

me in NO uncertain terms that she will not tell me anything about the medical

findings from this point on. Today, she made it clear that it was " payback " for

the secrets I have kept from her – she is trying to show me how it feels to be

" in the dark " (never mind the fact that the only reason I ever kept secrets from

her is that the smallest thing could make her become unhinged and completely

lose it, and every time she would plow full force into me I would find myself on

the brink of suicidal thoughts). Furthermore, the condition for her to " share "

her life with me is for me to " get rid of " my husband. As long as he is in my

life, she will not share anything with me from now on.

>

> Going back to the day after my last exam (May 15), I called her in the morning

and asked her how she was. Her response: " Perfectly fine, never better! " I was

relieved and irate at the same time. She had been playing the frail little old

lady card on me for two weeks, almost derailing my exams, and then she was

suddenly " perfect " ?

>

> What is ironic is that she claims that I make her angry without regard to her

heart issues, but never mind that I have had heart problems since the age of 4

and she has never once remembered them during her rages (only afterwards she

would sometimes become contrite when she saw how bad a shape I was in, on the

few occasions when I would become so ill that it would make me hysterical and I

would turn blue during her rages). Not to mention that she has no consideration

for my stress level during as important a time in my life as year-end exams.

>

> Things were a little bit better in the second half of May, but then at the end

she began spiraling down again. I knew it was coming. The anniversary of my

aunt's (her sister's) death was this week and she has ZERO emotional regulation,

she has absolutely never been able to handle death. Last week she was

practically starving herself and sounding (at least on the phone with me) like

she was two breaths away from passing out (or even away!) any minute. At the end

of last week she got a call from the cardiologist regarding some test (which she

has not revealed to me) they had done – they had the results and needed to

discuss them with her in person. I got more worried, but she was bullying me

still and I was trying not to get sucked into the vortex. Then last Saturday, I

talked to her, and while the conversation itself was terrible (I actually

recorded that conversation and I am glad I did, because at one point I literally

thought maybe I was going CRAZY, because of the illogical things she was saying

- up was down and down was up, I had to go back and listen to the recording

later to be reassured that I hadn't lost it, and I was being perfectly

logical!), what got to me was the fact that she had a bit of a cough. I wasn't

sure if she had a bit of a cold or allergies, but I couldn't help wondering if

it was something with her lung. I had a very fitful night Saturday/Sunday and

barely slept.

>

> On Sunday, I caved to my inner softness, called her up and offered to bring my

kids to spend part of their summer vacation with her (they won't finish school

for another week). She perked up immediately, which I had expected. I know she

is really depressed about her sister and I know she is missing my kids

(somewhere amid the BPD madness there is also a fierce, though often twisted,

love, and I know she loves my kids more than life itself, in her own way), so I

was hoping that spending time with the kids would get her past this tough

junction. She told me that she would pay for the kids' plane tickets but NOT for

mine (my mother is wealthy, not Wall Street CEO filthy rich, but very wealthy,

while I am in a totally impecunious state, burdened by massive student loans).

Her reason: if it weren't for my husband being in my life (and in my home), she

would come to MY house, then she could take the kids on a nice vacation to

Florida, California and the Grand Canyon and I wouldn't have to spend any money,

but she'll be damned if she will spend a penny to accommodate my bad life

choices and him. I wouldn't be able to go on vacation with them because school

starts again in July for me, so I would basically take a weekend trip to drop

off the kids with her. I asked her if she felt physically well enough for such

vigorous vacation plans and she insisted that she was fine, and if she felt

unwell she would immediately buy tickets for me to come pick up the kids from

wherever they would be with her. Things seemed to be looking up (never mind the

fact that I was going to have to shell out around $600 for my ticket, I was

willing to do that, to give her a chance to enjoy part of her summer in the

company of my kids – who really are walking rays of sunshine, although I may be

biased in my assessment!

>

> I told the kids about these plans on Sunday and they have been excited. Then

for the past 3 days, I tried to pin down some dates with her and work out a good

itinerary. I offered to fly the kids to Orlando (since she was planning to take

them to Disney World, the new Harry Potter park, etc.), then I asked her for a

date (or at least a range) when she would be willing/able to bring them back. My

husband will not be living at home at the end of the summer (we had to move for

me to go to med school and he gave up a great job to support me during this

first year, we had hoped that he would find a job near my school, but so far he

has been unsuccessful locally, and we are barely holding our finances together,

so he will be moving for a new job in August). This whole time she has been

hammering on the fact that she " CANNOT " come to my home to see me or pick up my

kids as long as " HE is there " , since it will cause her to " have a massive heart

attack and die on the spot " . Well, I kept telling her that he would not be here

in August, so she can come bring the kids and stay for a visit. That is not good

enough – as long as he is still in my life then " it is just a charade " . She

refuses to " be kept in a small compartment " in my life (it is not my husband or

I who have a problem with her coming to visit, she can come and go ANY time, he

is even willing to make himself very scarce when she is around (which he has

done in the past)), since this is simply the " continuation of [my] father's

plan " (remember that my father killed himself 15 years ago!). He wanted her to

" be a servant and raise his child " and then " throw her out " of my life, and I

have completed his plan! He was " constantly brainwashing " me and " excluding " her

from my life and HE is the reason why I do not love and respect her. She has

always served everyone, she has been victimized, she has suffered, she has moved

mountains to give me the life of a princess (this would be funny if it weren't

so horribly tragic and I would laugh if I weren't feeling like howling right

now!), and then she has been cast aside because of my father's (the evil

mastermind!) plan to eliminate her from my life. Btw, she is all about personal

responsibility until it becomes about her.

>

> I forgot to mention that during our recorded conversation last Saturday she

told me that unless I was going to admit, accept and declare repeatedly that she

is the world's most amazing mother, I don't deserve for her to speak to me.

>

> So, my kids talked to her on Monday and my sweet older son drafted a wonderful

itinerary for their vacation. He worked on it for two evenings and emailed it to

her last night. Yesterday evening I made a bunch of reservations and put tickets

on hold. The reservations expired before I could get a straight answer from her

about her preferred dates. So I spent another hour making more reservations this

evening and putting more tickets on hold. Finally, as I was finalizing

everything and getting ready to start purchasing the tickets, she lost it. She

called me every name under the sun – I am a base and venal person, I don't love

her, I have never loved her, I have never respected her, I have never treated

her like a mother, if I were capable of honest reflection then I would know that

she is obviously right, but since I am too blinded and brainwashed to see the

truth I will continue to abuse her, I am a terrible mother compared to her, I am

a ruthless, heartless person devoid of empathy, how can I even think about being

a doctor, I wouldn't care if she had a heart attack and died right now while

talking to me, I probably wouldn't even think about it, I was continuing my

father's abuse of her, I owe her everything and she did everything for me and

sacrificed her life and I am a heartless ingrate, etc. etc.

>

> At this point, my own heart started acting up (I get really bad palpitations

when I am under a lot of stress, my heart starts beating very erratically, this

is not something I openly share with people (except for this wonderful group of

strangers on the internet!), but my mother (along with my husband and my 2 best

friends) knows this about me – she was there when I was a candidate for OPEN

HEART SURGERY at age 5, thankfully I was treated and was able to recover from

the more major issues without needing the surgery! I told her that since I was

such a terrible person and basically replacement of my father in her life it

would be best for us to stop the conversation at this point. She hung up, then

called back and yelled at me 3-4 more times (and hung up each time after she was

done berating me). She hasn't called in the last 30 minutes or so (I had to

interrupt this LONG post several times to answer her calls)… and I am hoping she

won't call any more (at least not tonight, please!).

>

> I am tired, I am spent, I am done… I can't keep spinning in this mad vortex

and continue to meet the demands of my own life. I am finally so close to

achieving my dream (I have wanted to be a doctor since I was 4! and amidst all

the drama and trauma, I got so hopelessly derailed that there were times I

thought I would never get to this point). I just finished my first year in

medical school, I have a chance to be who I have been born to be (I know it

sounds cheesy, but I have always felt like medicine is my calling, I know even

most (if not all) of my classmates think that " medicine as a calling " is such a

crazy, " quaint " , idealistic notion, but I do think it is a calling – being able

to put the needs and the well-being of others, most often complete strangers,

above your own, to serve them in their most challenging hour, to hold the

responsibility and the privilege of guarding someone else's health and life, is

deeply meaningful to me). I want to do this for myself, I also want to do this

for my children. I have 3 more years before getting my M.D. and getting my first

job as a resident doctor. I have never been this close and I don't even want to

consider the possibility of not getting there.

>

> I know I am already feeling guilty about the fact that I am contemplating the

decision to stop contacting her. I know she will use that decision to skewer me

– she will paint and see me as heartless, abandoning her especially when she is

having health problems. She will never let me forget it or live it down. I can

already feel my resolve weakening and I know I will probably not be able to go

more than a few weeks without finally breaking down and calling her. I also

don't know what to tell my kids. I feel terrible about setting them up for such

disappointment about this vacation (I just can't put any more energy into making

it happen), I wish I hadn't told them about the plan until I knew for sure

(tickets purchased!) that it was going to happen. I don't know where and how to

guide their relationship with their grandmother. I know I will answer her calls

and I will acknowledge her emails. I am also feeling so much grief at the

realization that my relationship with my mother is never going to be healthy. I

miss her and I love her and I want to be happy with her. I want her to love me

more than she hates my husband. I want her to love me more than she hates my

father. I want her to STOP, stop living in the past, stop assuming and relishing

the victim role, stop being so destructively (and self-destructively!)

self-centered. I want her to stop finding fault with everyone and everything. I

want her to learn to forgive and FORGET. I want her to see the world in all its

shades of gray. I want her to stop thinking that it is OK for her to insult

everyone else and to stop walking around with the assumption that everyone

offends, slights, demeans and disrespects her. I want her to stop fixating on

assumptions and wild theories and convincing herself that they are true by

repeating them incessantly (e.g., " your father has programmed you on a cellular

level to hate me " ). And this list can go on and on… but I know none of these

changes will happen, the ugly monster that is BPD is never going to let her go

and is never going to stop torturing her (I know she is tortured and miserable)

and me. I feel so stuck – I don't know how to fix this, I don't know how to live

with this and I don't know how to get out of it.

>

> For me things are complicated by the fact that I am an only child, and even

more complicated by the fact that I lost my father so tragically (yes, I know

there was nothing I could have done, but knowing and feeling are two different

things), and I feel like my mother knows that she can exploit these weaknesses

of mine.

>

> For a couple of years things seemed to be getting better for me (and even for

my mother I think too, objectively, based on other people's observations) –

after I figured out that I wasn't crazy, that the madness was real and even had

a 3-letter acronym, after I read books and joined this group, after I learned

how to set at least a few small but firm boundaries, I felt like I had finally

emerged from a dark and scary place, I felt like I had a handle on things, I was

managing, I was coping, I had even found peace with most of it, but during this

past year things have been spiraling towards the abyss again. I am exhausted, I

can't do this any longer. I have spent 30 years of my life living under

continued emotional and psychological stress and strain… I can't do it any

longer, I am at my wit's end.

>

> Thank you for letting me vent. If you have read this far, thank you, thank

you, for your patience and kindness. I am sorry I rambled on for so long.

>

> Arianna

>

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Arianna: I am an only child as well, and lots of what you said ring true.

Bottom line, you are in too deep right now, you need to go NC for a long time to

pull yourself back, get some peace, figure out some boundaries, or figure out

if you want someone like your mother in your life. Your life is hard enough

with kids and med school, and she is just making it unbearable and she is NEVER

GOING TO CHANGE HER BEHAVIOR TOWARDS YOU unless you seriously alter your whole

dynamic with her and you can only do that with a clear head and with the help of

counseling. Truly, you deserve this, your children deserve this, and it is

incumbent on you to do this for yourself. Stop apologizing ( " I'm sorry if you

thought I raised my voice " - from your email, I do the same thing, saying I'm

sorry when I'm really not, or when I know logically that I haven't behaved in a

way that warrants an apology) and start expecting some minimum level behavior

from her if she wants to be in your life. I have been nc for a year, and it's

hard, but I know that I'm finally being good to myself and acknowledging that I

can't fix her, can't be what she needs, and I love myself and my family enough

to do what's right for me.

stop talking to her right now.

-

>

> Here I am sitting crying tonight. I am at my wits end. I sit here wondering

about what terrible thing I must have done in my life to deserve this madness

and pain. I am going to go LC, I just can't take it any longer. I am at the

point where I would go NC, except it will be only on my end since my conscience

is just not releasing me completely and I know I won't be able to ignore a call

or email if she contacts me. I am an only child and she has managed to alienate

just about everyone, so I can't abandon her completely.

>

> Those of you who were kind enough to read some of my posts and have amazing

memories might recall that last December there was high drama surrounding my

mother's health. Three days before my finals began (as a first semester medical

student) she told me that she had just gotten back from the hospital ER where

she had taken herself at the insistence of some friends (she had been having

some chest pains). As you may imagine, I was a bad daughter for not even knowing

that she had gone to the hospital, but that's just a minor issue. At the ER they

had found nothing wrong with her heart, but the X-ray they took of her showed a

tiny lesion on her lung, which could have been a tumor. This news was very

upsetting and stressful, especially during finals week. My mind kept running

through various scenarios, one gloomier than the next, non-stop. The kids and I

went to visit her during winter break (a weak after finals), and she seemed

perfectly fine. She had plenty of energy and anger to berate me on a daily

basis. The doctors told her that she should get a follow-up scan in 6 months

(this May) to check and see if this was a tumor, in which case the next step

would be a biopsy.

>

> Throughout the spring semester the berating, badgering, name-calling continued

with regularity. In fact, her BPD seemed to be flaring up progressively. Over

the past few months she has been single-mindedly obsessed with my father and all

the ways in which he (with the help of my grandparents, HER parents) has

" programmed " me on a " cellular level " to continue abusing and killing her even

after his death (he committed suicide 15 years ago). My father was physically

abusive, which I cannot and will not excuse. She was verbally abusive and at

times tried to reciprocate the physical abuse as well, which still does not

excuse his behavior, but certainly does not make her a completely innocent

victim either. He was an alcoholic with a horribly painful past. She was someone

with a painful past herself – her father and uncle were classic cases of NPD (my

grandfather, who is still alive, is really a textbook example and his brother

was worse), while her mother took out all her frustrations with her husband out

on her kids by beating them. I have tried, I have tried so hard to be kind and

understanding. I have forgiven my parents for the pain they have heaped upon me,

for unleashing their combined misery in my young and innocent life. Despite

this, I am still a horrible person. I am the world's most ungrateful daughter. I

am ruthless and callous. I have no empathy. How can I pretend that I am going to

be a doctor and care for people when I don't even care about my own mother, who

has been THE " greatest mother in the world " . How could I " use " my mother

throughout my childhood only to shatter all her " hopes and dreams " when I grew

up. I have ruined my mother's life and health, and now I am trying to " kill " her

by making her angry and giving her a heart attack.

>

> So, in the final 2 weeks of school this spring semester, culminating in 4

exams, one of which was a comprehensive exam covering all the material we have

learned over the past year, my mother's health problems flared up again. She was

feeling horribly, her heart was aching, her chest was aching, her arm was going

numb, she had vertigo and she was losing consciousness several times a day,

according to what she told me. She would be on the phone with me and then she

would become quiet for a minute and I would call out, then she would come back

and say " I just passed out again " . I was a COMPLETE basketcase. I was under so

much stress and pressure academically (I don't mean to sound full-of-myself, and

when people used to tell me that there is no schooling as rigorous as medical

school, I thought they were exaggerating, but I have come to find out that they

weren't – I studied pretty serious disciplines as an undergrad (biochem and

computer science) and I got a master's degree from a top 10 program in the

country, but NOTHING compares to medical school – the sheer volume of stuff you

have to learn, understand, remember then regurgitate and APPLY on an exam is

breathtaking). The situation with her health started pushing me over the edge.

Although, I would catch her off guard sometimes (when I would call and she would

be on the other line with someone and she'd switch over sounding very strong and

chipper, then suddenly assume her " frail old lady " voice as soon as she realized

I was on the line), and a part of me wondered how much of her illness was

psychological/psychosomatic, I still couldn't disregard it, not even one little

bit. Part of this has to do with the fact that I never saw the signs and never

anticipated my father's suicide, so ever since then I always choose to err on

the side of caution. I would rather be overly concerned and find out there's

nothing serious, then the opposite.

>

> I found a good cardiologist and finally convinced her to go see him during the

last few days of school. They checked her and said that she might have a murmur

(I have had a murmur my whole life, and have had intermittent mild heart

problems throughout my life, so it didn't shock me too much). Regardless of my

comfort level with my own heart problems, any real heart problem she may have is

still very worrisome to me (first, because it appears as something new, and

second, because she is 60), but what is more worrisome to me is the situation

with her lung. She has yet to get the follow-up CT, I think. Although, she is

refusing to tell me when she is planning to get it, or even if she has already

gotten it. She has said several times that she is a poor, used, discarded

servant and nobody is there to care for her and take her to the doctor (mind

you, despite all her real or imagined health problems, she just planted 20 trees

in her yard a week ago and she can still muster up enough energy to go off on me

for 30 minutes without taking a single deep breath, not to mention that she is a

retire (by her choice) university professor and perfectly spry and capable of

driving herself to the doctor). Over the last couple of weeks she has also told

me in NO uncertain terms that she will not tell me anything about the medical

findings from this point on. Today, she made it clear that it was " payback " for

the secrets I have kept from her – she is trying to show me how it feels to be

" in the dark " (never mind the fact that the only reason I ever kept secrets from

her is that the smallest thing could make her become unhinged and completely

lose it, and every time she would plow full force into me I would find myself on

the brink of suicidal thoughts). Furthermore, the condition for her to " share "

her life with me is for me to " get rid of " my husband. As long as he is in my

life, she will not share anything with me from now on.

>

> Going back to the day after my last exam (May 15), I called her in the morning

and asked her how she was. Her response: " Perfectly fine, never better! " I was

relieved and irate at the same time. She had been playing the frail little old

lady card on me for two weeks, almost derailing my exams, and then she was

suddenly " perfect " ?

>

> What is ironic is that she claims that I make her angry without regard to her

heart issues, but never mind that I have had heart problems since the age of 4

and she has never once remembered them during her rages (only afterwards she

would sometimes become contrite when she saw how bad a shape I was in, on the

few occasions when I would become so ill that it would make me hysterical and I

would turn blue during her rages). Not to mention that she has no consideration

for my stress level during as important a time in my life as year-end exams.

>

> Things were a little bit better in the second half of May, but then at the end

she began spiraling down again. I knew it was coming. The anniversary of my

aunt's (her sister's) death was this week and she has ZERO emotional regulation,

she has absolutely never been able to handle death. Last week she was

practically starving herself and sounding (at least on the phone with me) like

she was two breaths away from passing out (or even away!) any minute. At the end

of last week she got a call from the cardiologist regarding some test (which she

has not revealed to me) they had done – they had the results and needed to

discuss them with her in person. I got more worried, but she was bullying me

still and I was trying not to get sucked into the vortex. Then last Saturday, I

talked to her, and while the conversation itself was terrible (I actually

recorded that conversation and I am glad I did, because at one point I literally

thought maybe I was going CRAZY, because of the illogical things she was saying

- up was down and down was up, I had to go back and listen to the recording

later to be reassured that I hadn't lost it, and I was being perfectly

logical!), what got to me was the fact that she had a bit of a cough. I wasn't

sure if she had a bit of a cold or allergies, but I couldn't help wondering if

it was something with her lung. I had a very fitful night Saturday/Sunday and

barely slept.

>

> On Sunday, I caved to my inner softness, called her up and offered to bring my

kids to spend part of their summer vacation with her (they won't finish school

for another week). She perked up immediately, which I had expected. I know she

is really depressed about her sister and I know she is missing my kids

(somewhere amid the BPD madness there is also a fierce, though often twisted,

love, and I know she loves my kids more than life itself, in her own way), so I

was hoping that spending time with the kids would get her past this tough

junction. She told me that she would pay for the kids' plane tickets but NOT for

mine (my mother is wealthy, not Wall Street CEO filthy rich, but very wealthy,

while I am in a totally impecunious state, burdened by massive student loans).

Her reason: if it weren't for my husband being in my life (and in my home), she

would come to MY house, then she could take the kids on a nice vacation to

Florida, California and the Grand Canyon and I wouldn't have to spend any money,

but she'll be damned if she will spend a penny to accommodate my bad life

choices and him. I wouldn't be able to go on vacation with them because school

starts again in July for me, so I would basically take a weekend trip to drop

off the kids with her. I asked her if she felt physically well enough for such

vigorous vacation plans and she insisted that she was fine, and if she felt

unwell she would immediately buy tickets for me to come pick up the kids from

wherever they would be with her. Things seemed to be looking up (never mind the

fact that I was going to have to shell out around $600 for my ticket, I was

willing to do that, to give her a chance to enjoy part of her summer in the

company of my kids – who really are walking rays of sunshine, although I may be

biased in my assessment!

>

> I told the kids about these plans on Sunday and they have been excited. Then

for the past 3 days, I tried to pin down some dates with her and work out a good

itinerary. I offered to fly the kids to Orlando (since she was planning to take

them to Disney World, the new Harry Potter park, etc.), then I asked her for a

date (or at least a range) when she would be willing/able to bring them back. My

husband will not be living at home at the end of the summer (we had to move for

me to go to med school and he gave up a great job to support me during this

first year, we had hoped that he would find a job near my school, but so far he

has been unsuccessful locally, and we are barely holding our finances together,

so he will be moving for a new job in August). This whole time she has been

hammering on the fact that she " CANNOT " come to my home to see me or pick up my

kids as long as " HE is there " , since it will cause her to " have a massive heart

attack and die on the spot " . Well, I kept telling her that he would not be here

in August, so she can come bring the kids and stay for a visit. That is not good

enough – as long as he is still in my life then " it is just a charade " . She

refuses to " be kept in a small compartment " in my life (it is not my husband or

I who have a problem with her coming to visit, she can come and go ANY time, he

is even willing to make himself very scarce when she is around (which he has

done in the past)), since this is simply the " continuation of [my] father's

plan " (remember that my father killed himself 15 years ago!). He wanted her to

" be a servant and raise his child " and then " throw her out " of my life, and I

have completed his plan! He was " constantly brainwashing " me and " excluding " her

from my life and HE is the reason why I do not love and respect her. She has

always served everyone, she has been victimized, she has suffered, she has moved

mountains to give me the life of a princess (this would be funny if it weren't

so horribly tragic and I would laugh if I weren't feeling like howling right

now!), and then she has been cast aside because of my father's (the evil

mastermind!) plan to eliminate her from my life. Btw, she is all about personal

responsibility until it becomes about her.

>

> I forgot to mention that during our recorded conversation last Saturday she

told me that unless I was going to admit, accept and declare repeatedly that she

is the world's most amazing mother, I don't deserve for her to speak to me.

>

> So, my kids talked to her on Monday and my sweet older son drafted a wonderful

itinerary for their vacation. He worked on it for two evenings and emailed it to

her last night. Yesterday evening I made a bunch of reservations and put tickets

on hold. The reservations expired before I could get a straight answer from her

about her preferred dates. So I spent another hour making more reservations this

evening and putting more tickets on hold. Finally, as I was finalizing

everything and getting ready to start purchasing the tickets, she lost it. She

called me every name under the sun – I am a base and venal person, I don't love

her, I have never loved her, I have never respected her, I have never treated

her like a mother, if I were capable of honest reflection then I would know that

she is obviously right, but since I am too blinded and brainwashed to see the

truth I will continue to abuse her, I am a terrible mother compared to her, I am

a ruthless, heartless person devoid of empathy, how can I even think about being

a doctor, I wouldn't care if she had a heart attack and died right now while

talking to me, I probably wouldn't even think about it, I was continuing my

father's abuse of her, I owe her everything and she did everything for me and

sacrificed her life and I am a heartless ingrate, etc. etc.

>

> At this point, my own heart started acting up (I get really bad palpitations

when I am under a lot of stress, my heart starts beating very erratically, this

is not something I openly share with people (except for this wonderful group of

strangers on the internet!), but my mother (along with my husband and my 2 best

friends) knows this about me – she was there when I was a candidate for OPEN

HEART SURGERY at age 5, thankfully I was treated and was able to recover from

the more major issues without needing the surgery! I told her that since I was

such a terrible person and basically replacement of my father in her life it

would be best for us to stop the conversation at this point. She hung up, then

called back and yelled at me 3-4 more times (and hung up each time after she was

done berating me). She hasn't called in the last 30 minutes or so (I had to

interrupt this LONG post several times to answer her calls)… and I am hoping she

won't call any more (at least not tonight, please!).

>

> I am tired, I am spent, I am done… I can't keep spinning in this mad vortex

and continue to meet the demands of my own life. I am finally so close to

achieving my dream (I have wanted to be a doctor since I was 4! and amidst all

the drama and trauma, I got so hopelessly derailed that there were times I

thought I would never get to this point). I just finished my first year in

medical school, I have a chance to be who I have been born to be (I know it

sounds cheesy, but I have always felt like medicine is my calling, I know even

most (if not all) of my classmates think that " medicine as a calling " is such a

crazy, " quaint " , idealistic notion, but I do think it is a calling – being able

to put the needs and the well-being of others, most often complete strangers,

above your own, to serve them in their most challenging hour, to hold the

responsibility and the privilege of guarding someone else's health and life, is

deeply meaningful to me). I want to do this for myself, I also want to do this

for my children. I have 3 more years before getting my M.D. and getting my first

job as a resident doctor. I have never been this close and I don't even want to

consider the possibility of not getting there.

>

> I know I am already feeling guilty about the fact that I am contemplating the

decision to stop contacting her. I know she will use that decision to skewer me

– she will paint and see me as heartless, abandoning her especially when she is

having health problems. She will never let me forget it or live it down. I can

already feel my resolve weakening and I know I will probably not be able to go

more than a few weeks without finally breaking down and calling her. I also

don't know what to tell my kids. I feel terrible about setting them up for such

disappointment about this vacation (I just can't put any more energy into making

it happen), I wish I hadn't told them about the plan until I knew for sure

(tickets purchased!) that it was going to happen. I don't know where and how to

guide their relationship with their grandmother. I know I will answer her calls

and I will acknowledge her emails. I am also feeling so much grief at the

realization that my relationship with my mother is never going to be healthy. I

miss her and I love her and I want to be happy with her. I want her to love me

more than she hates my husband. I want her to love me more than she hates my

father. I want her to STOP, stop living in the past, stop assuming and relishing

the victim role, stop being so destructively (and self-destructively!)

self-centered. I want her to stop finding fault with everyone and everything. I

want her to learn to forgive and FORGET. I want her to see the world in all its

shades of gray. I want her to stop thinking that it is OK for her to insult

everyone else and to stop walking around with the assumption that everyone

offends, slights, demeans and disrespects her. I want her to stop fixating on

assumptions and wild theories and convincing herself that they are true by

repeating them incessantly (e.g., " your father has programmed you on a cellular

level to hate me " ). And this list can go on and on… but I know none of these

changes will happen, the ugly monster that is BPD is never going to let her go

and is never going to stop torturing her (I know she is tortured and miserable)

and me. I feel so stuck – I don't know how to fix this, I don't know how to live

with this and I don't know how to get out of it.

>

> For me things are complicated by the fact that I am an only child, and even

more complicated by the fact that I lost my father so tragically (yes, I know

there was nothing I could have done, but knowing and feeling are two different

things), and I feel like my mother knows that she can exploit these weaknesses

of mine.

>

> For a couple of years things seemed to be getting better for me (and even for

my mother I think too, objectively, based on other people's observations) –

after I figured out that I wasn't crazy, that the madness was real and even had

a 3-letter acronym, after I read books and joined this group, after I learned

how to set at least a few small but firm boundaries, I felt like I had finally

emerged from a dark and scary place, I felt like I had a handle on things, I was

managing, I was coping, I had even found peace with most of it, but during this

past year things have been spiraling towards the abyss again. I am exhausted, I

can't do this any longer. I have spent 30 years of my life living under

continued emotional and psychological stress and strain… I can't do it any

longer, I am at my wit's end.

>

> Thank you for letting me vent. If you have read this far, thank you, thank

you, for your patience and kindness. I am sorry I rambled on for so long.

>

> Arianna

>

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Dear phine,

I love your analogy - it really hit home. You are right, I would never, ever

allow anyone, not just patients or family/friends, but a STRANGER to be abused

the way my mother abuses me (if I could help in any way at all). Yet, somehow, I

have allowed the one person who is supposed to love me, cherish me and protect

me the most, to heap so much pain and abuse upon me over the years that it's

hard to even think about.

You are right, there is a lot of trauma in her past - some of it she remembers

very vividly (and she talks about things that happened 55 years ago as if it had

happened yesterday), and some of it she fabricates completely (she grew up with

3 sisters and there are some things that all 3 of them swear never happened, yet

my mother insists upon it). She lashes out and looks for culprits all the time.

The saddest part is that despite the fact that she was in the victim role when

she was younger, she had a chance to get free of that role as an adult, and yet

she continually chose to see herself as a victim. There have been many times

when I have honestly thought that she relishes the role of " victim " and

" martyr " .

With her, as with my father, I was always acutely aware of their struggles,

their past trauma, their fragile psyches, and I spent my life bending, twisting

and tiptoeing to keep them as happy as I could. My father's suicide shook me in

so many ways. It woke me up to the harsh reality that my parents were not just

your average dysfunctional family. They were not the " normal " kind of

" dysfunctional " - there was something fundamentally wrong with BOTH of them.

Even though I never consciously articulated this realization at the time, I do

believe it is what gave me the strength to get away from my mother in the first

place (I moved out permanently and moved in with my boyfriend (now husband),

which prevented her from following me). Unfortunately, it took all my strength

to get away and then her relentless harassment, combined with the revelation

that my boyfriend had had 2 affairs, which made the beginning of our marriage

very shaky, then several miscarriages, then finally the pregnancy that resulted

in my older son (during which she called me literally every day at all hours of

day and night and told me to get an abortion or give up the baby for adoption

(after it was too late for an abortion))... as a result of all of this, I think

I fell back into the routine of being abused, harassed, used as an emotional and

psychological punching bag.

Years later I finally put myself back together enough to be able to start

thinking more clearly about my mother's behavior and reality. After a lot of

research, reading, talking to a couple of therapists, etc., I was finally able

to figure out exactly what was wrong with her - when I first read the diagnostic

criteria for BPD I was sobbing (with relief!). It was incredible - I was not

crazy, this was real, it had been real all along, it was a disease, it had a

name, and other people knew about it, I wasn't alone with my mother's madness!!!

For the last few years, knowing that the BPD monster was real and had my mother

in its clutches, made it easy for me to begin dealing with it better. I started

setting boundaries, I stopped engaging in her rants, I learned techniques of

coping and I stopped trying to reason with her during her rages (this used to be

so frustrating in the past, when I would try to make a logical point to counter

some insane off the wall thing she screamed, and it would make her even more

furious!). I moved 1500 miles away from her, which helped me greatly in setting

boundaries.

All of this was going well until my aunt died and a couple of months later I

started medical school (all last year). She started escalating (or spiraling

down, I think both terms describe her condition well), which I had been

anticipating, but then all the real real and imaginary health problems threw me

off balance (and she knew that the health problems would be the one thing that

would reel me in).

> >

> > Here I am sitting crying tonight. I am at my wits end. I sit here wondering

about what terrible thing I must have done in my life to deserve this madness

and pain. I am going to go LC, I just can't take it any longer. I am at the

point where I would go NC, except it will be only on my end since my conscience

is just not releasing me completely and I know I won't be able to ignore a call

or email if she contacts me. I am an only child and she has managed to alienate

just about everyone, so I can't abandon her completely.

> >

> > Those of you who were kind enough to read some of my posts and have amazing

memories might recall that last December there was high drama surrounding my

mother's health. Three days before my finals began (as a first semester medical

student) she told me that she had just gotten back from the hospital ER where

she had taken herself at the insistence of some friends (she had been having

some chest pains). As you may imagine, I was a bad daughter for not even knowing

that she had gone to the hospital, but that's just a minor issue. At the ER they

had found nothing wrong with her heart, but the X-ray they took of her showed a

tiny lesion on her lung, which could have been a tumor. This news was very

upsetting and stressful, especially during finals week. My mind kept running

through various scenarios, one gloomier than the next, non-stop. The kids and I

went to visit her during winter break (a weak after finals), and she seemed

perfectly fine. She had plenty of energy and anger to berate me on a daily

basis. The doctors told her that she should get a follow-up scan in 6 months

(this May) to check and see if this was a tumor, in which case the next step

would be a biopsy.

> >

> > Throughout the spring semester the berating, badgering, name-calling

continued with regularity. In fact, her BPD seemed to be flaring up

progressively. Over the past few months she has been single-mindedly obsessed

with my father and all the ways in which he (with the help of my grandparents,

HER parents) has " programmed " me on a " cellular level " to continue abusing and

killing her even after his death (he committed suicide 15 years ago). My father

was physically abusive, which I cannot and will not excuse. She was verbally

abusive and at times tried to reciprocate the physical abuse as well, which

still does not excuse his behavior, but certainly does not make her a completely

innocent victim either. He was an alcoholic with a horribly painful past. She

was someone with a painful past herself – her father and uncle were classic

cases of NPD (my grandfather, who is still alive, is really a textbook example

and his brother was worse), while her mother took out all her frustrations with

her husband out on her kids by beating them. I have tried, I have tried so hard

to be kind and understanding. I have forgiven my parents for the pain they have

heaped upon me, for unleashing their combined misery in my young and innocent

life. Despite this, I am still a horrible person. I am the world's most

ungrateful daughter. I am ruthless and callous. I have no empathy. How can I

pretend that I am going to be a doctor and care for people when I don't even

care about my own mother, who has been THE " greatest mother in the world " . How

could I " use " my mother throughout my childhood only to shatter all her " hopes

and dreams " when I grew up. I have ruined my mother's life and health, and now I

am trying to " kill " her by making her angry and giving her a heart attack.

> >

> > So, in the final 2 weeks of school this spring semester, culminating in 4

exams, one of which was a comprehensive exam covering all the material we have

learned over the past year, my mother's health problems flared up again. She was

feeling horribly, her heart was aching, her chest was aching, her arm was going

numb, she had vertigo and she was losing consciousness several times a day,

according to what she told me. She would be on the phone with me and then she

would become quiet for a minute and I would call out, then she would come back

and say " I just passed out again " . I was a COMPLETE basketcase. I was under so

much stress and pressure academically (I don't mean to sound full-of-myself, and

when people used to tell me that there is no schooling as rigorous as medical

school, I thought they were exaggerating, but I have come to find out that they

weren't – I studied pretty serious disciplines as an undergrad (biochem and

computer science) and I got a master's degree from a top 10 program in the

country, but NOTHING compares to medical school – the sheer volume of stuff you

have to learn, understand, remember then regurgitate and APPLY on an exam is

breathtaking). The situation with her health started pushing me over the edge.

Although, I would catch her off guard sometimes (when I would call and she would

be on the other line with someone and she'd switch over sounding very strong and

chipper, then suddenly assume her " frail old lady " voice as soon as she realized

I was on the line), and a part of me wondered how much of her illness was

psychological/psychosomatic, I still couldn't disregard it, not even one little

bit. Part of this has to do with the fact that I never saw the signs and never

anticipated my father's suicide, so ever since then I always choose to err on

the side of caution. I would rather be overly concerned and find out there's

nothing serious, then the opposite.

> >

> > I found a good cardiologist and finally convinced her to go see him during

the last few days of school. They checked her and said that she might have a

murmur (I have had a murmur my whole life, and have had intermittent mild heart

problems throughout my life, so it didn't shock me too much). Regardless of my

comfort level with my own heart problems, any real heart problem she may have is

still very worrisome to me (first, because it appears as something new, and

second, because she is 60), but what is more worrisome to me is the situation

with her lung. She has yet to get the follow-up CT, I think. Although, she is

refusing to tell me when she is planning to get it, or even if she has already

gotten it. She has said several times that she is a poor, used, discarded

servant and nobody is there to care for her and take her to the doctor (mind

you, despite all her real or imagined health problems, she just planted 20 trees

in her yard a week ago and she can still muster up enough energy to go off on me

for 30 minutes without taking a single deep breath, not to mention that she is a

retire (by her choice) university professor and perfectly spry and capable of

driving herself to the doctor). Over the last couple of weeks she has also told

me in NO uncertain terms that she will not tell me anything about the medical

findings from this point on. Today, she made it clear that it was " payback " for

the secrets I have kept from her – she is trying to show me how it feels to be

" in the dark " (never mind the fact that the only reason I ever kept secrets from

her is that the smallest thing could make her become unhinged and completely

lose it, and every time she would plow full force into me I would find myself on

the brink of suicidal thoughts). Furthermore, the condition for her to " share "

her life with me is for me to " get rid of " my husband. As long as he is in my

life, she will not share anything with me from now on.

> >

> > Going back to the day after my last exam (May 15), I called her in the

morning and asked her how she was. Her response: " Perfectly fine, never better! "

I was relieved and irate at the same time. She had been playing the frail little

old lady card on me for two weeks, almost derailing my exams, and then she was

suddenly " perfect " ?

> >

> > What is ironic is that she claims that I make her angry without regard to

her heart issues, but never mind that I have had heart problems since the age of

4 and she has never once remembered them during her rages (only afterwards she

would sometimes become contrite when she saw how bad a shape I was in, on the

few occasions when I would become so ill that it would make me hysterical and I

would turn blue during her rages). Not to mention that she has no consideration

for my stress level during as important a time in my life as year-end exams.

> >

> > Things were a little bit better in the second half of May, but then at the

end she began spiraling down again. I knew it was coming. The anniversary of my

aunt's (her sister's) death was this week and she has ZERO emotional regulation,

she has absolutely never been able to handle death. Last week she was

practically starving herself and sounding (at least on the phone with me) like

she was two breaths away from passing out (or even away!) any minute. At the end

of last week she got a call from the cardiologist regarding some test (which she

has not revealed to me) they had done – they had the results and needed to

discuss them with her in person. I got more worried, but she was bullying me

still and I was trying not to get sucked into the vortex. Then last Saturday, I

talked to her, and while the conversation itself was terrible (I actually

recorded that conversation and I am glad I did, because at one point I literally

thought maybe I was going CRAZY, because of the illogical things she was saying

- up was down and down was up, I had to go back and listen to the recording

later to be reassured that I hadn't lost it, and I was being perfectly

logical!), what got to me was the fact that she had a bit of a cough. I wasn't

sure if she had a bit of a cold or allergies, but I couldn't help wondering if

it was something with her lung. I had a very fitful night Saturday/Sunday and

barely slept.

> >

> > On Sunday, I caved to my inner softness, called her up and offered to bring

my kids to spend part of their summer vacation with her (they won't finish

school for another week). She perked up immediately, which I had expected. I

know she is really depressed about her sister and I know she is missing my kids

(somewhere amid the BPD madness there is also a fierce, though often twisted,

love, and I know she loves my kids more than life itself, in her own way), so I

was hoping that spending time with the kids would get her past this tough

junction. She told me that she would pay for the kids' plane tickets but NOT for

mine (my mother is wealthy, not Wall Street CEO filthy rich, but very wealthy,

while I am in a totally impecunious state, burdened by massive student loans).

Her reason: if it weren't for my husband being in my life (and in my home), she

would come to MY house, then she could take the kids on a nice vacation to

Florida, California and the Grand Canyon and I wouldn't have to spend any money,

but she'll be damned if she will spend a penny to accommodate my bad life

choices and him. I wouldn't be able to go on vacation with them because school

starts again in July for me, so I would basically take a weekend trip to drop

off the kids with her. I asked her if she felt physically well enough for such

vigorous vacation plans and she insisted that she was fine, and if she felt

unwell she would immediately buy tickets for me to come pick up the kids from

wherever they would be with her. Things seemed to be looking up (never mind the

fact that I was going to have to shell out around $600 for my ticket, I was

willing to do that, to give her a chance to enjoy part of her summer in the

company of my kids – who really are walking rays of sunshine, although I may be

biased in my assessment!

> >

> > I told the kids about these plans on Sunday and they have been excited. Then

for the past 3 days, I tried to pin down some dates with her and work out a good

itinerary. I offered to fly the kids to Orlando (since she was planning to take

them to Disney World, the new Harry Potter park, etc.), then I asked her for a

date (or at least a range) when she would be willing/able to bring them back. My

husband will not be living at home at the end of the summer (we had to move for

me to go to med school and he gave up a great job to support me during this

first year, we had hoped that he would find a job near my school, but so far he

has been unsuccessful locally, and we are barely holding our finances together,

so he will be moving for a new job in August). This whole time she has been

hammering on the fact that she " CANNOT " come to my home to see me or pick up my

kids as long as " HE is there " , since it will cause her to " have a massive heart

attack and die on the spot " . Well, I kept telling her that he would not be here

in August, so she can come bring the kids and stay for a visit. That is not good

enough – as long as he is still in my life then " it is just a charade " . She

refuses to " be kept in a small compartment " in my life (it is not my husband or

I who have a problem with her coming to visit, she can come and go ANY time, he

is even willing to make himself very scarce when she is around (which he has

done in the past)), since this is simply the " continuation of [my] father's

plan " (remember that my father killed himself 15 years ago!). He wanted her to

" be a servant and raise his child " and then " throw her out " of my life, and I

have completed his plan! He was " constantly brainwashing " me and " excluding " her

from my life and HE is the reason why I do not love and respect her. She has

always served everyone, she has been victimized, she has suffered, she has moved

mountains to give me the life of a princess (this would be funny if it weren't

so horribly tragic and I would laugh if I weren't feeling like howling right

now!), and then she has been cast aside because of my father's (the evil

mastermind!) plan to eliminate her from my life. Btw, she is all about personal

responsibility until it becomes about her.

> >

> > I forgot to mention that during our recorded conversation last Saturday she

told me that unless I was going to admit, accept and declare repeatedly that she

is the world's most amazing mother, I don't deserve for her to speak to me.

> >

> > So, my kids talked to her on Monday and my sweet older son drafted a

wonderful itinerary for their vacation. He worked on it for two evenings and

emailed it to her last night. Yesterday evening I made a bunch of reservations

and put tickets on hold. The reservations expired before I could get a straight

answer from her about her preferred dates. So I spent another hour making more

reservations this evening and putting more tickets on hold. Finally, as I was

finalizing everything and getting ready to start purchasing the tickets, she

lost it. She called me every name under the sun – I am a base and venal person,

I don't love her, I have never loved her, I have never respected her, I have

never treated her like a mother, if I were capable of honest reflection then I

would know that she is obviously right, but since I am too blinded and

brainwashed to see the truth I will continue to abuse her, I am a terrible

mother compared to her, I am a ruthless, heartless person devoid of empathy, how

can I even think about being a doctor, I wouldn't care if she had a heart attack

and died right now while talking to me, I probably wouldn't even think about it,

I was continuing my father's abuse of her, I owe her everything and she did

everything for me and sacrificed her life and I am a heartless ingrate, etc.

etc.

> >

> > At this point, my own heart started acting up (I get really bad palpitations

when I am under a lot of stress, my heart starts beating very erratically, this

is not something I openly share with people (except for this wonderful group of

strangers on the internet!), but my mother (along with my husband and my 2 best

friends) knows this about me – she was there when I was a candidate for OPEN

HEART SURGERY at age 5, thankfully I was treated and was able to recover from

the more major issues without needing the surgery! I told her that since I was

such a terrible person and basically replacement of my father in her life it

would be best for us to stop the conversation at this point. She hung up, then

called back and yelled at me 3-4 more times (and hung up each time after she was

done berating me). She hasn't called in the last 30 minutes or so (I had to

interrupt this LONG post several times to answer her calls)… and I am hoping she

won't call any more (at least not tonight, please!).

> >

> > I am tired, I am spent, I am done… I can't keep spinning in this mad vortex

and continue to meet the demands of my own life. I am finally so close to

achieving my dream (I have wanted to be a doctor since I was 4! and amidst all

the drama and trauma, I got so hopelessly derailed that there were times I

thought I would never get to this point). I just finished my first year in

medical school, I have a chance to be who I have been born to be (I know it

sounds cheesy, but I have always felt like medicine is my calling, I know even

most (if not all) of my classmates think that " medicine as a calling " is such a

crazy, " quaint " , idealistic notion, but I do think it is a calling – being able

to put the needs and the well-being of others, most often complete strangers,

above your own, to serve them in their most challenging hour, to hold the

responsibility and the privilege of guarding someone else's health and life, is

deeply meaningful to me). I want to do this for myself, I also want to do this

for my children. I have 3 more years before getting my M.D. and getting my first

job as a resident doctor. I have never been this close and I don't even want to

consider the possibility of not getting there.

> >

> > I know I am already feeling guilty about the fact that I am contemplating

the decision to stop contacting her. I know she will use that decision to skewer

me – she will paint and see me as heartless, abandoning her especially when she

is having health problems. She will never let me forget it or live it down. I

can already feel my resolve weakening and I know I will probably not be able to

go more than a few weeks without finally breaking down and calling her. I also

don't know what to tell my kids. I feel terrible about setting them up for such

disappointment about this vacation (I just can't put any more energy into making

it happen), I wish I hadn't told them about the plan until I knew for sure

(tickets purchased!) that it was going to happen. I don't know where and how to

guide their relationship with their grandmother. I know I will answer her calls

and I will acknowledge her emails. I am also feeling so much grief at the

realization that my relationship with my mother is never going to be healthy. I

miss her and I love her and I want to be happy with her. I want her to love me

more than she hates my husband. I want her to love me more than she hates my

father. I want her to STOP, stop living in the past, stop assuming and relishing

the victim role, stop being so destructively (and self-destructively!)

self-centered. I want her to stop finding fault with everyone and everything. I

want her to learn to forgive and FORGET. I want her to see the world in all its

shades of gray. I want her to stop thinking that it is OK for her to insult

everyone else and to stop walking around with the assumption that everyone

offends, slights, demeans and disrespects her. I want her to stop fixating on

assumptions and wild theories and convincing herself that they are true by

repeating them incessantly (e.g., " your father has programmed you on a cellular

level to hate me " ). And this list can go on and on… but I know none of these

changes will happen, the ugly monster that is BPD is never going to let her go

and is never going to stop torturing her (I know she is tortured and miserable)

and me. I feel so stuck – I don't know how to fix this, I don't know how to live

with this and I don't know how to get out of it.

> >

> > For me things are complicated by the fact that I am an only child, and even

more complicated by the fact that I lost my father so tragically (yes, I know

there was nothing I could have done, but knowing and feeling are two different

things), and I feel like my mother knows that she can exploit these weaknesses

of mine.

> >

> > For a couple of years things seemed to be getting better for me (and even

for my mother I think too, objectively, based on other people's observations) –

after I figured out that I wasn't crazy, that the madness was real and even had

a 3-letter acronym, after I read books and joined this group, after I learned

how to set at least a few small but firm boundaries, I felt like I had finally

emerged from a dark and scary place, I felt like I had a handle on things, I was

managing, I was coping, I had even found peace with most of it, but during this

past year things have been spiraling towards the abyss again. I am exhausted, I

can't do this any longer. I have spent 30 years of my life living under

continued emotional and psychological stress and strain… I can't do it any

longer, I am at my wit's end.

> >

> > Thank you for letting me vent. If you have read this far, thank you, thank

you, for your patience and kindness. I am sorry I rambled on for so long.

> >

> > Arianna

> >

>

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