Re: Re: Female BP as Sexual Abusers

[Guest guest]

You should still turn your mother in.

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 9:58 PM, josephinebl67 wrote:

>

>

> I strongly believe sexual abuse is repetition compulsion, the body telling

> a story suppressed by the mind, that is why it is so important for victims

> to speak out, be supported, and get help. I think all sex crimes are sexual

> in that actions like violence get sexualized because the person committing

> them was violated sexually and the two (sex and violence) became linked when

> they should not have, or fetishized, and there was no outlet for expression

> like therapy or some form of mentoring or support so the only outlet for

> expression of the trauma is repetition.

>

> I am so sorry to hear of the abuse of the OP at the hands of her mother,

> that is such a tragedy. My family has it on both sides and is 'forgive and

> forget', i.e. repress and deny, and repeat the cycle, and it's so

> devastating to me how my family deals (meaning, doesn't deal) with this

> stuff.

>

>

>

> >

> > well, my therapist does disagree with this stance that a child being

> > sexually abused is for control..... sexual abuse when it is an adult

> against a

> > child is sexual for the pedophile....rape between an adult and another

> adult

> > is control. But pedophillia (I am sure I just butchered that spelling) is

>

> > supposedly more of a sexual disorder than a control disorder. That's what

> my

> > therapist thinks anyway.

> >

> > I have heard of very few female perpeatrators, but I had a friend (who

> > sadly committed suicide) and her mother had sexually abused her. Her

> mother was

> > jacked up mentally in all sorts of ways. I dont doubt that some female

> > sexual abusers are bpd, but my mother was just the opposite -- she was a

> > sexual prude and had a warp sense of body and sex in this judgmental,

> crazy

> > belief and yet allowed me to be sexually abused by her uncle and claimed

> she

> > had been sexually abused as well.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 6/11/2010 5:22:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> > marionlibrarian42@... writes:

> >

> > All the experts say that sexual abuse is not about sex its about control,

>

> > and BPs are all about control.The experts also say that sexual perps were

>

> > almost all sexualy abused as a child , and sexual abuse is considered a

> main

> > couse of BPD . So why is it that society is so willing to turn a blind

> eye

> > to this problem. Pepole almost refuse to see a mother as a child molester

>

> > or rapist . I cant help but think this genaral attitude keeps people from

>

> > coming forward and getting help , much less leagal justise for the abuse

> > they suffered .

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Irene,

Wow, I can also relate with this sexual weirdness inappropriateness of mom. My

mom would do the *grab* thing at our developing breasts and then get defensive

when we got mad. I can see how a little baby would giggle over something like

that, if it were like a tickle, even though it's still wrong in my mind (I would

never do that to my son! I only tickled him in *safe zones*)

I think my mom was close to my sister in that *snuggle* way; I was not into her

being that close to me, sadly (I mean sad that I did not have a mother who I

could feel comfortable hugging me). She also told me all her sex things about

my dad and and have me as her confidante and then get mad at me if I acted

parental. She was so childish a lot of the time.

It's like they are super immature and want to make their kids their buddies, but

their idea of what *buddies* are, is also messed up.

I am not sure it is them being " over-sexed " but that they don't know how to

manage the constant influx of sexuality; most people can tune it out at the

right times.

My grandfather (and this is why I think there is a genetic component to this)

went on a cruise with my grandmother when they were in their 70's maybe even

late 70's. And my grandfather got in this rage thinking the porter was making

eyes at my grandmother! He was jealous! He was always jealous! When my

grandmother died, I think their neighborhood friends sort of tried to keep up

with him (especially this one nice nice lady) but he drove them all away. She

was the only one who kept up with him as best she could.

Anyway, I hope you can overcome the hugging thing; because with the right people

it is a good feeling; and we need to be held by others.

Thanks for sharing this; it is helpful to hear stories like this, for me,

because it makes me able to generalize my experience which helps me to

understand it more.

~patricia

Re: Female BP as Sexual Abusers

To " pd : patricia " - This is another time when I read a post here and realize

that what I thought was just a bit odd does happen to those with nadas. Even as

a child my mom told me about her sex life, sordid details of things that

happened in her marriages and complaints about the lack of sex at times. She

relied on me to be her confidant and buddy. But what 10 year old needs to know

that stuff? Or when she would sneak out and meet some guy for a fling, she took

me with her. Why?

When I was very young and she was between husbands at the time, she would

sleep with me and " snuggle " very closely. Wouldn't want me to move and kept her

arm and leg over me. Perhaps it was just to keep me from wandering around while

she wanted to sleep. But I always felt suffocated and to this day I'm not fond

of being hugged by people.

She also had this thing about doing a little grab at my pubic area. She said I

used to like it as a baby and would giggle. I don't remember that of course. But

when I was in my teens and walking through the dining room and she reached over

and grabbed me there, I jumped back. Needless to say, she got very angry, told

me she " made me " and could do what she wanted with me.

I'm not saying it was sexual abuse but she was and still is, even in her 80's,

obsessed with all things sexual. She asks me how do lesbians have sex? How would

I know and why would I even discuss it? She thinks men are looking at her in the

restaurants. She doesn't like service people to come to her house because they

might make a pass at her. Yeah, in her dreams.

Anyway, BPD females can be oversexed and abuse their kids in various ways. Too

bad the world can't see that.

>

> Hi

> I have often thought of this subject and I totally agree with you, that

there is

> a prejudice towards the *innocence* of women as sexual abusers. Of course

it makes

> no sense at all that women could not sexually abuse, and I am so sorry for

your experiences.

> I know it is very damaging and I admire you had the intention to turn your

mom in at all

>

> This idea that a teacher could molest a boy and thus *initiate* him into

manhood, is preposterous! I hear a lot of guys say those types of comments, how

they wouldn't have

> minded such a thing. Publicly as well. It always bothers me as I have a 15

year old boy

> and I would go ballistic if some teacher did that to him. I know his

innocence and I think

> that people think that males are not ever *innocent*, and always lusting.

But having

> raised a son (and just being a smart aware person) I know this is not so.

>

> My mother, who I believe has BPD, did not really physically molest us but

there was this

> sense of psychic incest/emotional incest. She would tell me about her and

my dad's sex

> life, and just sometimes be inappropriate in this weird *girlish* way that

was not at all

> *mom-like*. It made me build up walls that of course I wish I didn't have

to and I believe

> interferes with my own sexuality.

>

> I agree with you, there needs to be more understanding, awareness and

commitment to

> preventing, stopping, and prosecuting female offenders.

> ~patricia

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[Guest guest]

There is a book I believe it's called: Emotional Incest, by Love

I found that book helpful.

~patricia

Re: Female BP as Sexual Abusers

For the people who have posted here , Thank you all for being brave and

sharing about an issue that is so personal . It has helped me to know I am not

alone in this , and I'm sure there are others out there that need a place to

vent and validate themselves . For the sake of helping them and us I urge anyone

who has found a book , an article or any other resource that deals with this

subject to post it here , and If you feel comfortable doing so ask your

therapist if you have one for resources that can be posted here . So many of us

feel there is no safe place to turn about this and I'm sure more are out there .

Thank you for caring.

>

>

> Marilyn, am I ever sorry to hear all of this. You have been through so

much. I am saying a prayer for your healing.

>

> I am interested in more on this topic. It isn't one that is written about

much, although some of my sources mention it obliquely in connection with male

BP's. My BP nada molested her younger sister after she herself was molested by

my grandfather growing up. Both people are at times verbally inappropriate

sexually. I wonder if my grandfather is actually BP as well.

>

> --.

>

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

check out mdsa-online.org, or just google 'mdsa' which stands for 'making

daughters safe again' or mother-daughter sexual abuse.  annyes indeed mothers

and other women can be sexual predators, mine was towards me.  

Subject: Re: Female BP as Sexual Abusers

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Friday, June 11, 2010, 8:14 PM

 

thank you for your responses .

I don't want to become a poster girl for the subject , but I would really like

ideas on how to make people more awhere of the subject .I myself do not have the

money for pro help from a shrink , but if any of you do , and can ask questions

about it inorder to post here so that it might help others that feel they have

nowhere to go I would be very grateful.

>

> Hi

> I have often thought of this subject and I totally agree with you, that there

is

> a prejudice towards the *innocence* of women as sexual abusers. Of course it

makes

> no sense at all that women could not sexually abuse, and I am so sorry for

your experiences.

> I know it is very damaging and I admire you had the intention to turn your mom

in at all

>

> This idea that a teacher could molest a boy and thus *initiate* him into

manhood, is preposterous! I hear a lot of guys say those types of comments, how

they wouldn't have

> minded such a thing. Publicly as well. It always bothers me as I have a 15

year old boy

> and I would go ballistic if some teacher did that to him. I know his

innocence and I think

> that people think that males are not ever *innocent*, and always lusting. But

having

> raised a son (and just being a smart aware person) I know this is not so.

>

> My mother, who I believe has BPD, did not really physically molest us but

there was this

> sense of psychic incest/emotional incest. She would tell me about her and my

dad's sex

> life, and just sometimes be inappropriate in this weird *girlish* way that was

not at all

> *mom-like*. It made me build up walls that of course I wish I didn't have to

and I believe

> interferes with my own sexuality.

>

> I agree with you, there needs to be more understanding, awareness and

commitment to

> preventing, stopping, and prosecuting female offenders.

> ~patricia

> Female BP as Sexual Abusers

>

>

>

> This is a hard subject to discus . Of the thousands of books written on

sexual abuse, 99 % of them deal with a male as the abuser. We are told as kids

If a strange man offers you candy to run away and ask for help. If you watch a

crime drama it is always a male that is the rapist , child molester , wife

beater ect...

>

> In the 3 cases of female teachers sexualy abusing students that I know of

from the news , all of the women have been diagnosied with BPD . However all of

the men I know seem to think its no big deal " when I was a kid I would have

loved to have an older woman show my the ropes lol " seems to be a normal and

acepted attitude to have .

>

> All the experts say that sexual abuse is not about sex its about control,

and BPs are all about control.The experts also say that sexual perps were almost

all sexualy abused as a child , and sexual abuse is considered a main couse of

BPD . So why is it that society is so willing to turn a blind eye to this

problem. Pepole almost refuse to see a mother as a child molester or rapist . I

cant help but think this genaral attitude keeps people from coming forward and

getting help , much less leagal justise for the abuse they suffered .

>

> Both my brother and myself were sexual abused by our Nada . I thought

about turnning her in as an adult , and one of the first questions asked of me

when I was on the phone with police was the name of the MAN that had done it.I

hung up . The link between BPD and sexual abuse is not written about that I've

found , unless its to adress the BPDs abuse as a child . Women can be sexual

preditors , they can be husband beaters , child molesters and rapist . Noone

seems to care much about helping their victoms , or beleaving them for that

matter .

>

> In the few cases I know of that the female was cought and charged she got a

slap on the wrist compared to what would have been done to a male perp , and

worse than that if the victom was male he was ridaculed for not likeing the

abuse . Somebody needs to make this an issue that gets attention! Police,

therapist, rape counsaling are all illequip to handle helping victoms of this

type of abuse , We desprately need a place that offers help instead of judgment,

for the many abused , and the phyc comunity needs to take a real look at the

link between BDP and sexual perpatraitors .

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

((marilyn)) i am sooo sorry this happened, my nada also molested and raped and

terrorized me as a very young child and then left me alone to 'cry it out' and

'deal' with it , before i had any ways of knowing how to calm down and soothe

myself from the terror and rage.. i still feel the effects of the anxiety and

bear the scars she left on me to this day.  and she always denied it, thinking

i was 'too young' to remember it and if it was denied often enuf then it did not

exist. sick, really sick.. she also was raped at knife point by her father and

bore his child.  the abuse traveled thru generations and stopped with me.  i

am sorry you were never able to have children.

Subject: Re: Female BP as Sexual Abusers

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Saturday, June 12, 2010, 8:59 AM

 

My nada sexually molested me for YEARS daily as a toddler until I was old

enough to run away from her. She would take me in the bathroom bringing in a

kitchen knife and locking the bathroom door. My father was working so he never

knew but the 'morning ritual' was always the same. Pull down my little lace

trimmed panties, put me on the toilet bowl; ask me if I did #2 yet and it didn't

matter if I said yes or no, the result was the same. She would take the kitchen

knife and cut a VERY fat sliver of Ivory soap from the bar, stick her thick

fingers in me which she had soaped up and stick her fat fingers inside me

scratching me and it hurt. She would stick the soap sliver up my rectum and I

would scream out in pain. Nada seemed to love that (no doubt as I look back at

it now a control issue) and she would say " NOBODY can clean you like your MOTHER

can " . If I urinated after, this was permitted and I wasn't physically abused

and made to go through

the bathroom ritual all over again but if I did defecate, this was NOT

permitted and I would be punished. Of course the bathroom ritual would start

immediately if I defecated and then she would hit me after I got out of the

bathroom. Once she took my hands over to the gas stove which she had turned on,

placed my tiny hands on it and said " hot, hot - don't touch " . I wound up with

third degree burns and of course back then no one reported her as she said since

I was 2 that it was 'an accident' and I 'must have done it when she wasn't

looking'. My father when he came home to see my bandaged hand asked what

happened. Nada reiterated that I must have done it while she was cooking and

not looking but it wasn't HER fault since a child that age is impossible to

watch every second (I am an only child) and especially a 'bad child like this

one'.

When I was 12 I had an extremely painful period for the first time and I was

hemoragging very badly. My nada had made me put a washcloth in my panties to

rush me to the emergency room. I was doubled over in pain. She never told me

about periods or that bleeding was normal for a girl when she menostrated so I

thought I was bleeding to death. The doctor in E.R. put my feet up in the

silver stirrups and there I was in a hospital gown with no panties on of course

feeling extremely uncomfortable and embarrassed. He said after an examination

with a light on his head and his gloved fingers probing me that he needed to

talk to nada immediately. I heard him on the other side of the curtain say " I

have NEVER seen a young virgin scarred inside her right ovary like this girl is.

I can't imagine how that happened. But I can tell you this your daughter will

never conceive when she gets older and she will always experience very painful

periods with severe

bleeding every other month " . I did too and I never conceived.

So yes indeed women CAN be sexual abusers and are.

My nada readily admits that she was sexually abused by HER alcoholic father from

a very young age and that he raped her repeatedly. I have no doubt that's true

as my aunt (nada's sister) told me separately that he had done the same thing

to her. I believe both her and my mother are BPD. I know nada is as my mental

health therapist friend who met nada diagnosed her as that when we went down

there a year ago November. I think there is a definite link between being

sexually abused and BPD. Some psychiatrists say yes to that and some say no

I've read but to me it is obvious.