Re: guilt and fog and rapid-fire black paintballs

[Guest guest]

>This has all been crazy making and I am crazy with being painted a

different color than I believe myself to be. I have to admit with

great humility, that I have had a relapse. Justified anger is indeed a

flame that roars out of control.

>I guess I have to really accept how powerless I am here, and that I

must refrain from re-acting . I must somehow, some way give up caring

about this visit and take my weight off my expectations to include

her and my dad in our plans. I need to stop trying the same thing

(having HOPE) and expecting different results.

, you DO have power here! You have the power to choose whether or not

you see your mother and father on this vacation, whether you tell them you are

coming or not, and on what terms of place/time you might set for seeing them.

That is your power! I do know how painful it is to painted in the wrong color,

especially when it's an exquisitely hurtful color coming from a parent. That

happened to me recently in a very debilitating way - it's hard to accept after

all's said and done he/she thinks *this* of who I am. Whatever the " this " is

for each of us is different, but it hurts like hell anyway. The important

thing to remember is that the opinion of a crazy person about who you are is

worthless. It really is. Even if that crazy person is the one you want most

in the world to finally give a shit about you.

Wishing you peace and strength,

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry that you are having to deal with the pain of choosing not to see

one parent and therefore missing out on seeing one you want to see. It is a

consequence of some denial he probably has about her behavior so don't take on

all the guilt, choices lead to consequences and that is not your fault. Hugs, I

hope you have a great vacation.

I loved the expresssion 'rapid fire black paintballs'. That is what my dad fires

every day at me. If you have ever seen the marks they make, they bruise if they

are too close. I think part of me keeps expecting to not bruise. But then I

would be an android.

I have been thinking tonight about the worst painting black, my relapse last

year. Without going into too much detail, I realized afterward that my father

knew long before I thought he did that I relapsed. He seized on it as an

opportunity to do some damage. He never saw me as a child in danger who needed

help, (yes I am 41 but I am still his child). I watch the families on

intervention and wonder what that would be like to have a family gather round

and say 'we love you and we don't want to watch you die'. My father used my

addiction in my early 20's and this recent relapse, which was almost a year ago,

to undercut my credibility as a human being as much as possible. It was very

hard to absorb this time, that both parents knew I was relapsing and neither

said nor did nothing, because I could have easily OD'd. I realized then that my

father would not be bothered at all by either that outcome or a suicide by me. I

think either would be preferable to him than me living a successful life as a

competent human being. That is not sarcasm or an exaggeration. That is the god's

honest truth, I am now convinced. His motives for this lifelong distortion

campaign are unclear but I have my suspicions. But his underlying hatred of me

is that deep. It was such a jolt to realize my family would stand by and watch

me die then throw the last shovel of dirt on my grave. It is not their

responsibility, but I have been clean and sober almost two decades and at that

point had only relapsed for one day about ten years ago. The rest of that time

I have been sober and functional. It is bizarre, completely, to realize how

little my life means to him and how much he would like to see me gone.

>

> Some of you may know that our family has planned a trip in a few

> weeks' time to their area. Fearing to make a mistake or spoil our trip

> altogether, I'd decided not to tell my folks about our trip until we

> arrived in the area where they lived. I wanted to know where I stood

> before including them. Well this past few weeks, I've made the plans

> that include other folks and was trying to ascertain when exactly the

> time for visiting my parents would best suit our schedule, and least

> disturb our vacation if it went poorly.

>

> Most of mine and nada's conversations this past year have been almost

> unremittingly hurtful of me. She's made it clear that from her point

> of view, I am a very bad daughter, and cannot redeem myself with her

> (kind of a relief actually!), so I've not initiated but two

> conversations with her since February (Easter and Mother's Day). All

> the things she is bringing up that are evidence against me are things

> from long past.. even my teen years. I think all I am guilty of has

> been speaking up for myself and letting her know that I am strong and

> don't deserve to be used as a garbage can. She withholds love from me

> today, based on things she continues to drag up from the past. And my

> ignoring it, or detaching from it, has not helped her to decide to

> change her behavior.

>

> So, I am practicing being an adult who does not need a mommy.OK, I am

> grand waffler, but I have been a quiet waffler. I HAD BEEN mighty

> concerned about the best way to let my folks know about the fact that

> we are visiting their state, make BOTH my nada and dad feel included

> in our plans, but not have our plans revolve completely around them.

>

> I guess it is time to disclose how my dreams always have rainbows of

> hope in them, how I always try again, even after deciding I will " give

> up. " After several months of rare contact.... Father's Day especially

> beckoned as a time to see if I could get in nada's good graces in time

> for the visit. (Gee, I had felt the peace of giving up, until I got

> hooked by my memories of Father's Day's past... .. usually my nada

> will make an opportunity for my dad and I to talk I thought I might

> be able to tell him about our upcoming visit... too bad I am as

> conflicted about how to let my parents know we are visiting....)

>

> I started crabwalking around just this past week, spontaneously making

> phone calls to test the waters, but refrain from disclosing our

> plans. Tonight, just days before Father's Day, wanting them to know I

> was willing for contact, I tried being spontaneous, " acting as if "

> what I had to share with my PARENTS would be received in the spirit in

> which it was offered.

>

> My nada had said awhile back that she wanted photos... I thought I

> had the perfect reason to call, when wonderful teachers at a sports

> camp (the only one my child will attend this summer) took photos today

> of the kids as a surprise. They shared a private access website with

> us, so we could have photos to share with family electronically. I

> thought for sure that dad would want photos of his grandkids, so I

> left a message telling my parents I could share the website address.

> Just call me back. My dad is the one who mostly uses the computer,

> and my nada is leery of giving him my email address, this seemed like

> the perfect thing, and--- no children's last names were even on the

> photos. (Just after I left the message, I also discovered that if I

> had an email address I could by-pass giving them the web address, if

> only my my dad would give us his email addy. Wishful thinking

> .)

>

> My mom called me right back tonight and, without asking questions,

> lashed out at me. She IMMEDIATELY chewed me out, making derisive

> comments about my poor judgement in posting our son's photos on the

> web (which I hadn't done ) ... and was railing on me non-stop like a

> machine gun. She'd jumped to erroneous conclusions; I could not

> defend myself, she did not let me get in a word edgewise... as she

> raged in a tirade about how stupid I was and how wrong I was... etc

> etc...they wanted no part in this. I was angry, at being so

> misperceived by someone so stupidly bent on belittling me; she hung up

> before ever hearing my side.

>

> I am about to conclude I really don't care to include my parents in

> our vacation plans, because I cannot stand the way my nada is treating

> me and I don't want to reward her by suddenly telling her we are

> coming to visit and would love to see her. Wouldn't that sound false?

> Especially since this last call has me convinced that she does not

> want to see any good intentions on my part. I can't reward that with

> a visit, can I?

>

> It continues to irk me that she is deliberately painting me all-

> black. I used to clear this stuff up by communicating in writing. I

> am kind, positive and assertive in letters, and I know she once

> appreciated this. Because she does not want me to write her any more,

> I am completely powerless. On the phone she seems to no longer listen

> (she did at one time) and I suspect she is trying to make me look bad

> in front of my (passive) dad.

>

> Why am I allowing myself to stay caught up in the energy of trying

> to tame nada again, all of a sudden? We expect to arrive in the

> Northwest in just three weeks time. Maybe in the next conversation

> the Seattle skies will turn blue and the sun will come out so I can

> just tell nada during her one receptive moment that we are coming to

> visit and would like to have a nice visit with them. Ah, follow the

> yellow brick road....

>

> I just want her to understand that I am a beautiful, careful and hard-

> working daughter, but all she wants to do in each of these phone calls

> is tell me that whatever I do is wrong. Though I am careful not to

> rage at my mom, my anger at the way I am being portrayed right now

> really makes me feel like I do not have the emotional mastery, nor the

> interest in seeing my mom, now!!!

>

> This has all been crazy making and I am crazy with being painted a

> different color than I believe myself to be. I have to admit with

> great humility, that I have had a relapse. Justified anger is indeed a

> flame that roars out of control.

>

> I guess I have to really accept how powerless I am here, and that I

> must refrain from re-acting . I must somehow, some way give up caring

> about this visit and take my weight off my expectations to include

> her and my dad in our plans. I need to stop trying the same thing

> (having HOPE) and expecting different results. I

>

> I just have to be more completely willing to GIVE UP all hope of a

> better future and let nada have her self-made view of the past that

> blames me for all her unhappiness. I need to give up the last of my

> guilt about the very real possibility that I won't have a visit with

> my folks, and just allow my nada to believe that I was not worth

> raising and I am an ungrateful daughter.

>

> I can and must let go and let God take care of this. First, I can

> choose to not pick up the phone to try to fix (again, fruitlessly) my

> mom's perception of me. And let the guilt about not seeing my DAD,

> not get the best of me.

>

> (It is my dad that I will most miss seeing, and making eye contact

> with, and telling him that I appreciate what he did for us in keeping

> our family together. I've already told him my frustrations with the

> situation, so no point in dwelling on that. So rarely do I get to talk

> to my dad that I don't even know the " right " way to ask to talk to

> him. I've actually been afraid my nada would be jealous if I ask to

> talk to him, even though nada gets much more than her share of time

> with me, and it has all been so private that I only talk to her on

> speaker phone. Can't handle the sound of her voice IN my head, if you

> know what I mean. She's so intrusive and so mean spirited this past

> year. )

>

> , who is most certainly not victorious right now.

>

> " Your vision will become clear, only when you can look into your own

> heart. " Carl Jung

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" I just have to be more completely willing to GIVE UP all hope of a

better future and let nada have her self-made view of the past that

blames me for all her unhappiness. I need to give up the last of my

guilt about the very real possibility that I won't have a visit with

my folks, and just allow my nada to believe that I was not worth

raising and I am an ungrateful daughter. "

Wow! This is kind of where I am these days. It's so hard, yet when I let

myself do this and dont talk to her for a while I feel so much healthier and am

I so much more there for my husband and son. When nada gets near me it takes

weeks or longer to clear my head again.

I hear you so much about your Dad. Also very familiar to me. Crazy

miracle/tragedy has been happening this year. My Dad suddenly started

apologizing and has suddenly started to see the truth (halfway at least) about

his own abusive relationship with nada. Now they may be getting divorced,

although he waffles a lot, and that has felt very apinful for me. But my

husband points out that I was about to lose both of them (since nada kept my dad

away from me) becuase of boundaries we have had to set that make nada very mad,

but now I'm only losing nada. I have my Dad back. A dad who needs a lot of

therapy, but my dad nonetheless. I hope sharing this doesn't sound like rubbing

your face in it--I sort of mean it as like--if he's a nice guy maybe someday a

miracle will happen with him too. But for me, the hardest thng about setting

limits with nada was knowing she'd take my dad away from me.

Yes, I know about hearing her voice in your head.

________________________________

To: wtoAdultChildren1

Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 11:34:24 PM

Subject: guilt and fog and rapid-fire black paintballs

Some of you may know that our family has planned a trip in a few

weeks' time to their area. Fearing to make a mistake or spoil our trip

altogether, I'd decided not to tell my folks about our trip until we

arrived in the area where they lived. I wanted to know where I stood

before including them. Well this past few weeks, I've made the plans

that include other folks and was trying to ascertain when exactly the

time for visiting my parents would best suit our schedule, and least

disturb our vacation if it went poorly.

Most of mine and nada's conversations this past year have been almost

unremittingly hurtful of me. She's made it clear that from her point

of view, I am a very bad daughter, and cannot redeem myself with her

(kind of a relief actually!), so I've not initiated but two

conversations with her since February (Easter and Mother's Day). All

the things she is bringing up that are evidence against me are things

from long past.. even my teen years. I think all I am guilty of has

been speaking up for myself and letting her know that I am strong and

don't deserve to be used as a garbage can. She withholds love from me

today, based on things she continues to drag up from the past. And my

ignoring it, or detaching from it, has not helped her to decide to

change her behavior.

So, I am practicing being an adult who does not need a mommy.OK, I am

grand waffler, but I have been a quiet waffler. I HAD BEEN mighty

concerned about the best way to let my folks know about the fact that

we are visiting their state, make BOTH my nada and dad feel included

in our plans, but not have our plans revolve completely around them.

I guess it is time to disclose how my dreams always have rainbows of

hope in them, how I always try again, even after deciding I will " give

up. " After several months of rare contact.... Father's Day especially

beckoned as a time to see if I could get in nada's good graces in time

for the visit. (Gee, I had felt the peace of giving up, until I got

hooked by my memories of Father's Day's past... .. usually my nada

will make an opportunity for my dad and I to talk I thought I might

be able to tell him about our upcoming visit... too bad I am as

conflicted about how to let my parents know we are visiting....)

I started crabwalking around just this past week, spontaneously making

phone calls to test the waters, but refrain from disclosing our

plans. Tonight, just days before Father's Day, wanting them to know I

was willing for contact, I tried being spontaneous, " acting as if "

what I had to share with my PARENTS would be received in the spirit in

which it was offered.

My nada had said awhile back that she wanted photos... I thought I

had the perfect reason to call, when wonderful teachers at a sports

camp (the only one my child will attend this summer) took photos today

of the kids as a surprise. They shared a private access website with

us, so we could have photos to share with family electronically. I

thought for sure that dad would want photos of his grandkids, so I

left a message telling my parents I could share the website address.

Just call me back. My dad is the one who mostly uses the computer,

and my nada is leery of giving him my email address, this seemed like

the perfect thing, and--- no children's last names were even on the

photos. (Just after I left the message, I also discovered that if I

had an email address I could by-pass giving them the web address, if

only my my dad would give us his email addy. Wishful thinking

.)

My mom called me right back tonight and, without asking questions,

lashed out at me. She IMMEDIATELY chewed me out, making derisive

comments about my poor judgement in posting our son's photos on the

web (which I hadn't done ) ... and was railing on me non-stop like a

machine gun. She'd jumped to erroneous conclusions; I could not

defend myself, she did not let me get in a word edgewise... as she

raged in a tirade about how stupid I was and how wrong I was... etc

etc...they wanted no part in this. I was angry, at being so

misperceived by someone so stupidly bent on belittling me; she hung up

before ever hearing my side.

I am about to conclude I really don't care to include my parents in

our vacation plans, because I cannot stand the way my nada is treating

me and I don't want to reward her by suddenly telling her we are

coming to visit and would love to see her. Wouldn't that sound false?

Especially since this last call has me convinced that she does not

want to see any good intentions on my part. I can't reward that with

a visit, can I?

It continues to irk me that she is deliberately painting me all-

black. I used to clear this stuff up by communicating in writing. I

am kind, positive and assertive in letters, and I know she once

appreciated this. Because she does not want me to write her any more,

I am completely powerless. On the phone she seems to no longer listen

(she did at one time) and I suspect she is trying to make me look bad

in front of my (passive) dad.

Why am I allowing myself to stay caught up in the energy of trying

to tame nada again, all of a sudden? We expect to arrive in the

Northwest in just three weeks time. Maybe in the next conversation

the Seattle skies will turn blue and the sun will come out so I can

just tell nada during her one receptive moment that we are coming to

visit and would like to have a nice visit with them. Ah, follow the

yellow brick road....

I just want her to understand that I am a beautiful, careful and hard-

working daughter, but all she wants to do in each of these phone calls

is tell me that whatever I do is wrong. Though I am careful not to

rage at my mom, my anger at the way I am being portrayed right now

really makes me feel like I do not have the emotional mastery, nor the

interest in seeing my mom, now!!!

This has all been crazy making and I am crazy with being painted a

different color than I believe myself to be. I have to admit with

great humility, that I have had a relapse. Justified anger is indeed a

flame that roars out of control.

I guess I have to really accept how powerless I am here, and that I

must refrain from re-acting . I must somehow, some way give up caring

about this visit and take my weight off my expectations to include

her and my dad in our plans. I need to stop trying the same thing

(having HOPE) and expecting different results. I

I just have to be more completely willing to GIVE UP all hope of a

better future and let nada have her self-made view of the past that

blames me for all her unhappiness. I need to give up the last of my

guilt about the very real possibility that I won't have a visit with

my folks, and just allow my nada to believe that I was not worth

raising and I am an ungrateful daughter.

I can and must let go and let God take care of this. First, I can

choose to not pick up the phone to try to fix (again, fruitlessly) my

mom's perception of me. And let the guilt about not seeing my DAD,

not get the best of me.

(It is my dad that I will most miss seeing, and making eye contact

with, and telling him that I appreciate what he did for us in keeping

our family together. I've already told him my frustrations with the

situation, so no point in dwelling on that. So rarely do I get to talk

to my dad that I don't even know the " right " way to ask to talk to

him. I've actually been afraid my nada would be jealous if I ask to

talk to him, even though nada gets much more than her share of time

with me, and it has all been so private that I only talk to her on

speaker phone. Can't handle the sound of her voice IN my head, if you

know what I mean. She's so intrusive and so mean spirited this past

year. )

, who is most certainly not victorious right now.

" Your vision will become clear, only when you can look into your own

heart. " Carl Jung

[Guest guest]

Thank you everyone for your perspectives on my share. I must turn in

for the night, but will follow up on this thread in the morning.

So helpful to hear (in responses to this thread and elsewhere) the

theme of the absent father, who can't even answer his own cell phone

without answering to nada. That would be my dad.

Oh how I wish there were a way to meet privately with my dad, but he

takes no initiative to do anything with me that does not include my

nada. He has only called me a couple of times in the past ten years,

actually. Very sad. He really is a shy man who is phone phobic. Did

someone suggest having a friend call their father, and then taking the

phone from that friend, once the dad answered?

I like that idea. Now to find a friend who will be able to handle it

when nada decides to call my friend back (days after the call is

completed) to interrogate. LOL