Re: Your obsession with your mother is ruining our marriage

June 17, 2010

I've met a fair amount of people in my life who tell me to " get over " stuff.

Often times, these people have their own (huge) issues. Often times, they are

working very, very hard to pretend that their past never happened, or it wasn't

that bad, or it really didn't hurt them that much. I tried to pretend that

myself, and all it really got me was another 15 years of being stuck in

dysfunction, with thoughts of suicide, and just a general inability to cope with

life, people and work. I think sometimes people don't want to hear it because

it reminds them that they have their own issues that they are trying to ignore.

That's my perspective.

Deanna

>

> Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

>

> Me: What obsession?

>

> Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

>

> Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

>

> Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

>

> Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

>

> Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email is

up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

>

> Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

>

> Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both miserable.

You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

>

> Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

>

> Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy was.

>

> *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

>

> So frustrated!

>

June 17, 2010

Ah geez... my ex would do this too... told me I had to get over it all the

time... said his dad was 'mean' too... one day I just looked at him and said,

" look. YOUR father was an ass#$%#, MY mother is MENTALLY ILL... big

difference. " He got it. We parted for other reasons but he did get 'that.'

A few things, however, got me about your post:

1) Why is he going through your email and phone? Speaks a lot about his

insecurities... volumes.

2) Why is he having such a hard time with the idea of a therapist? Again,

insecurities....

3) " You think I'm like your mother. " Hmmmmm... unless you've said this, he's

living in a made up world.

Any one of those things would cause me to rethink and run ... all three together

would be a deal-breaker.

My .05 cents.

Lynnette

>

> Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

>

> Me: What obsession?

>

> Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

>

> Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

>

> Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

>

> Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

>

> Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email is

up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

>

> Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

>

> Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both miserable.

You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

>

> Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

>

> Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy was.

>

> *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

>

> So frustrated!

>

June 17, 2010

Dear Disa,

This is verbal abuse. Please consult Evan's books--one good one,

though the title might sound a little hoaky, is 'the verbally abusive man: can

he change'? Lundy Bancroft's 'Why Does he Do That' might also help. Good luck!

Charlotte

>

> Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

>

> Me: What obsession?

>

> Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

>

> Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

>

> Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

>

> Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

>

> Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email is

up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

>

> Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

>

> Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both miserable.

You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

>

> Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

>

> Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy was.

>

> *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

>

> So frustrated!

>

June 17, 2010

I feel for you and what you are going through. My husband really had enough of

all my Nada drama too. I love him very much and also for my daughter I decided

to make a pack to myself that Nada had already consumed so much of my energy and

taken away alot of my earlier happiness that I was NEVER going to allow her or

the drama of her take away my NEW HAPPINESS. I understand that we need to work

on our issues to heal. For me I found to save my marriage I decided to share

only certain things with him and do the journey of self-discovery on my own.

Since then our marriage has thrived. I still share things with him and he is

there to talk to me and offer support when he can but I do not let it consume

our life like it did. He will never understand it all fully and I don't expect

him too. I wish I could just push a button and be over it all too.

Know you are safe here and I find having a therapist of my own is a wonderful

time just for me to get things out of my head. Yes we do need to be heard. I

felt the same as you but for the sake of my marriage I learnt that I couldn't

keep sharing with him so much and that was ok in a marriage to ahve our own

agendas.

I hope this helps as it works for me.

Best of luck

Kazam x

>

> Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

>

> Me: What obsession?

>

> Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

>

> Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

>

> Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

>

> Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

>

> Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email is

up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

>

> Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

>

> Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both miserable.

You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

>

> Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

>

> Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy was.

>

> *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

>

> So frustrated!

>

June 17, 2010

Deanna, you hit it, he does have issues that he doesn't want to look at or into.

This therapy session came up mostly because I'm concerned for him, he knows this

and as the time before our first appnt seems to stretch he is freaking out and

trying to drop it altogether.

I'm really getting frustrated that nothing seems to be happening and things are

still bad between us and I reaaaaaaaally want to leave but I think that's just

the KO in me, because it's what I always do when I get antsy or stay in one

place for too long or things go bad. I don't want to keep feeding that habit.

What also sucks is that this weekend his mother in a very obscure way told me

not to be surprised when I start acting like my mom because we are so similar.

WTF!!!!!!!! I'm sure the three minutes she met my nada on her best-best-bestest

behavior that we were similar, we look just alike.

Sore subject this week I guess.

> >

> > Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

> >

> > Me: What obsession?

> >

> > Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

> >

> > Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

> >

> > Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

> >

> > Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

> >

> > Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email

is up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

> >

> > Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

> >

> > Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both

miserable. You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

> >

> > Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

> >

> > Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy

was.

> >

> > *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

> >

> > So frustrated!

> >

>

June 17, 2010

Lynette,

He is very insecure. He's totally amazing and an awesome guy, but very insecure

and that plays into our relationship a lot.

I'm kind of throwing in the towel with this week, but am I reacting to my past

or what is going on? I need validation for every decision, it's making me so

crazy.

> >

> > Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

> >

> > Me: What obsession?

> >

> > Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

> >

> > Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

> >

> > Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

> >

> > Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

> >

> > Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email

is up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

> >

> > Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

> >

> > Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both

miserable. You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

> >

> > Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

> >

> > Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy

was.

> >

> > *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

> >

> > So frustrated!

> >

>

June 17, 2010

Disa,

I think there are some serious red flags in this conversation.

The fact that he goes through your e-mail and phone information

is a really big one. Accusing you of saying he's like your

mother is another if you haven't actually said anything like

that. I wonder whether he sees similarities himself and feels

attacked when you say things about her? His denial that the

marriage counselor is anything to do with him is a third. If

this is typical of conversations between the two of you, and he

is refusing to go to counseling, then I suspect it is true that

you're at the end of your marriage. Your spouse should be

supportive, not controlling and negative towards you. It sounds

like he's trying to avoid accepting any responsibility for your

keeping your marriage in good order by shifting the blame onto

your feelings about your mother. It takes two to keep a marriage

going, and if one of the two refuses to accept his part in that,

changing anything for the better is likely to be impossible.

At 02:27 PM 06/17/2010 Disa wrote:

>Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

>

>Me: What obsession?

>

>Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move

>on.

>

>Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't

>overhear my conversations with other people you wouldn't even

>know I was thinking about it.

>

>Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

>

>Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I

>don't think you're anything like her.

>

>Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when

>your email is up and why you freak out when I go through your

>phone.

>

>Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why

>would you keep doing it when you know it bothers me?

>

>Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us

>both miserable. You have a T now so you can bitch to her all

>day long.

>

>Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

>

>Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad

>your mommy was.

>

>*sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to

>go to counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my

>marriage, what really bothers me is being told I spend too much

>time talking about my " bad mommy issues " . I'm making

>connections in a way I was never able to before and it's not

>like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

>

>So frustrated!

--

Katrina

June 17, 2010

Spot on Deanna....Disa please don't take his judgments of you and this to heart.

Also you have the right to privacy on your phone and email....that's what

passwords and phone locking codes are for if he just can't respect privacy.

Nobody just " gets over " having a mentally ill parent. I watched my nada and

aunt twist and turn with the pain of all their unresolved issues with their

mother till the day she died. They never got therapy and even to this day don't

know what they need to " get over " . That isn't a fate I wish on them and want to

avoid for myself. The work you are doing now is trying to avoid that too...you

have the right to heal!

> >

> > Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

> >

> > Me: What obsession?

> >

> > Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

> >

> > Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

> >

> > Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

> >

> > Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

> >

> > Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email

is up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

> >

> > Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

> >

> > Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both

miserable. You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

> >

> > Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

> >

> > Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy

was.

> >

> > *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

> >

> > So frustrated!

> >

>

June 18, 2010

Kazam,

Thank you, I think I get what you are saying. I try not to talk about these

issues with him, and I feel fortunate in my new adult life with children and a

life of my own (NC with nada). But the issues of having a bat-crazy nada still

interferes.

I was livid after this conversation with him but now I am pretty sure it was his

way to deflect going to therapy.

He really doesn't want to go, the last time he was in counseling he was a

teenager and it resulted in a custody switch between his parents. He hasn't

spoken to his dad since. The custody switch needed to happen, but I know he is

not excited about couple's counseling. " Not excited " = " would rather eat his

own foot than go "

> >

> > Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

> >

> > Me: What obsession?

> >

> > Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

> >

> > Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

> >

> > Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

> >

> > Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

> >

> > Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email

is up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

> >

> > Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

> >

> > Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both

miserable. You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

> >

> > Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

> >

> > Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy

was.

> >

> > *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

> >

> > So frustrated!

> >

>

June 18, 2010

I've gotten the " eye roll " reaction to all this new BPD information over the

past few months, too. My husband has listened to some of it, but I can tell his

attention fades out after a while (sort of like my attention to details about

the World Cup or SEC football - I'm good for a while, but then I start looking

for something else to do.)

It's possible that your husband is a total jackass. It's also possible that

he's just being a total jackass right this minute, and he might be a swell guy

at other times. Question: Is he a swell guy enough of the time to make you

want to put up with him when he's a jackass? (I have this debate with myself

all the time - what is the acceptable ratio of jackass to swell guy?)

It's NOT OK for him to invade your emails or phone lists. Install security if

you have to. Whether he's doing this because he's insecure or because he's just

curious about what's going on with you, or whatever - he should explore this

WITH you, not behind your back.

If it's been recently that you started working through the discovery of BPD and

how it's affected you, he needs to be made aware that this re-evaluation of an

entire lifetime doesn't just happen overnight. It's taking me months to put my

entire life experience into the context that certain stuff happened because my

mom was crazy. (It's working, but sometimes memories jump up at the oddest

times, and it takes me a while to figure it all out.)

That being said - I've learned that there's a tendency to use this new

information to try and solve all problems - in other words, now every difficult

person or situation seems to be colored with BPD behavior, and there's a danger

that I'll use BPD/NC/LC coping tools as a " hammer " because everything looks like

a " nail. " I expect to work through that aspect of it, as well, but I have to

watch myself.

I've also found that a lot of my husband's " jackass " behavior is now intolerable

to me. I'm just not willing to let him or anybody else treat me like dirt, now

that I've discovered I'm not dirt. So I'm sure I'm being less pleasant and

accepting of certain slovenly ways - and this causes him discomfort and

confusion.

About " being just like our Moms " - well, OF COURSE we are, to some extent.

That's the model we learned from. Identifying the fleas and re-thinking how to

react to the world is part of the process, and it's hard work to replace learned

behaviors with new, healthy ones. It would be nice to get some credit for

trying to change that, instead of him shooting you down with that deadly phrase.

If he would go with you to the therapist, he might get the good news that you're

determined to become a healthier person, who will be a better, more secure and

fun-loving mate for him. But relaxing our grip on the familiar is uncomfortable

for all of us. Whatever his issues are, he probably dreads being dragged into

the therapy " swamp " - because he doesn't get how good it feels to hash out the

issues and find other ways of coping.

I hope his jackass phase is short-lived, and that the two of you can reach a

better understanding soon.

>

> Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

>

> Me: What obsession?

>

> Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

>

> Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

>

> Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

>

> Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

>

> Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email is

up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

>

> Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

>

> Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both miserable.

You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

>

> Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

>

> Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy was.

>

> *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

>

> So frustrated!

>

June 18, 2010

Katrina,

It drives me up the wall that he goes through my phone. Up. The. Wall. I don't

think that kind of snooping is ok to do to anyone.

He is looking for reassurance that I love him, that he is it for me, and I am

pretty useless at showing affection and appreciating flowers and crap like that.

He makes me jewelry and leaves me notes and is a hopeless romantic, those kinds

of things make me a little uneasy. It's no wonder we're having problems!

I'm so grateful for this site, thank you so much for your input.

> >Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

> >

> >Me: What obsession?

> >

> >Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move

> >on.

> >

> >Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't

> >overhear my conversations with other people you wouldn't even

> >know I was thinking about it.

> >

> >Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

> >

> >Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I

> >don't think you're anything like her.

> >

> >Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when

> >your email is up and why you freak out when I go through your

> >phone.

> >

> >Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why

> >would you keep doing it when you know it bothers me?

> >

> >Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us

> >both miserable. You have a T now so you can bitch to her all

> >day long.

> >

> >Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

> >

> >Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad

> >your mommy was.

> >

> >*sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to

> >go to counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my

> >marriage, what really bothers me is being told I spend too much

> >time talking about my " bad mommy issues " . I'm making

> >connections in a way I was never able to before and it's not

> >like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

> >

> >So frustrated!

>

> --

> Katrina

>

June 18, 2010

,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response.

In the beginning of our relationship we bonded over going NC with one of our

parents. In the last year, my family has gone NC with my mother and it

basically validated my entire childhood. So it came up in a pretty good way for

me. In the last two months my sister (golden) has decided to (FINALLY!) go LC

and for the first time in about a decade I feel like I have my sister back. She

isn't shoveling the issue and blaming me...we are able to talk about what has

happened and what is happening. We are able to talk about nada.

So while I don't talk about this with him, I'm talking about it alot with other

people. My FOO, my sister, and a friend who's mother is also BPD. My FOO and

sister are going through their own withdrawls and anger and trying to block her

phone calls and mail. Whoo-hoo!! This makes me the support system for once! It

wouldn't be such a big deal but my husband is home as much as I am now (thanks,

recession!) and so if I'm on the phone he hears me.

His good guy outweighs his inner jackass...but my coping skill is to move and

nothing bad has to happen for me to do that. I could just get bored and decide

I need a change. I can't keep doing that with two small children, and he's an

awesome dad.

I hope couple's counseling can help me decide if I am reacting based on what

I've always done, or if in this instance we should separate. It's easy to

leave, but easier isn't always better. In fact, the easy path is usually the

wrong choice.

Thanks again for your input, I'm looking forward to our first appointment on the

29th!

> >

> > Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

> >

> > Me: What obsession?

> >

> > Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

> >

> > Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

> >

> > Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

> >

> > Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

> >

> > Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email

is up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

> >

> > Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

> >

> > Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both

miserable. You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

> >

> > Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

> >

> > Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy

was.

> >

> > *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

> >

> > So frustrated!

> >

>

June 18, 2010

He sounds immature and cannot take responsibility for his actions (ie going

through your things). He also does not take your boundaries seriously.

I'd dump him if he is not willing to look at these things or go to the T.

-Joy

>

> Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

>

> Me: What obsession?

>

> Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

>

> Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

>

> Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

>

> Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

>

> Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email is

up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

>

> Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

>

> Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both miserable.

You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

>

> Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

>

> Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy was.

>

> *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

>

> So frustrated!

>

June 18, 2010

AH!! You're right! It's because of the boundaries...I could not vocalize it

before but that is what really upsets me in a lot of our interactions. " I don't

like it " for me is a boundary - but maybe I'm not clear in a way that makes

sense for him.

Ooooooooh, wow, how did I not see that before?

> >

> > Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

> >

> > Me: What obsession?

> >

> > Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

> >

> > Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

> >

> > Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

> >

> > Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

> >

> > Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email

is up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

> >

> > Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

> >

> > Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both

miserable. You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

> >

> > Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

> >

> > Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy

was.

> >

> > *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

> >

> > So frustrated!

> >

>

June 18, 2010

I know the main issue is the dynamic with your husband, but seriously get the

owner's manual for your phone and find out how to put a lock code on it. Every

cell phone I've owned has had that option - he will never be able to go through

your phone again. I really hope he can get over his fear and go to counseling

with you - it sounds like big changes are needed. You have a right to your

privacy!

> > >Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

> > >

> > >Me: What obsession?

> > >

> > >Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move

> > >on.

> > >

> > >Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't

> > >overhear my conversations with other people you wouldn't even

> > >know I was thinking about it.

> > >

> > >Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

> > >

> > >Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I

> > >don't think you're anything like her.

> > >

> > >Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when

> > >your email is up and why you freak out when I go through your

> > >phone.

> > >

> > >Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why

> > >would you keep doing it when you know it bothers me?

> > >

> > >Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us

> > >both miserable. You have a T now so you can bitch to her all

> > >day long.

> > >

> > >Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

> > >

> > >Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad

> > >your mommy was.

> > >

> > >*sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to

> > >go to counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my

> > >marriage, what really bothers me is being told I spend too much

> > >time talking about my " bad mommy issues " . I'm making

> > >connections in a way I was never able to before and it's not

> > >like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

> > >

> > >So frustrated!

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

June 19, 2010

Disa - I hear you. " Moving " is a non-combative coping mechanism, and may have

been one of the few safe options for us as kids - just get out of the way and

lay low. But it's tougher to move when you have kids in tow, and have invested

your finances, time, emotion and effort in creating a home. And being a

world-class Dad goes a long way toward mitigating some of the jackass husband

behavior. It doesn't make it completely OK, though, and you have a right to

work through this whole BPD thing in a way that gives you a healthier life - and

we all know it will have benefits for those around you as well, including your

husband and kids. Maybe the couples counselor will meet with you alone - it

might be helpful to have somebody who serves as a reality check - what's

deal-killing behavior, and what is just typical marriage friction? That sort of

thing. If his only experience with counseling was a nasty custody fight, I can

understand his hesitance to put his own marriage through the wringer. If you

bring home some positive reports or new skills, maybe he'll get the message that

you're doing this because you're committed to him and the marriage, and maybe -

maybe - he'll be more amenable to going with you.

Being married is hard work sometimes. Can't live with 'em, can't smother 'em in

their sleep (and get away with it...).

> >

> > Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

> >

> > Me: What obsession?

> >

> > Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

> >

> > Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

> >

> > Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

> >

> > Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

> >

> > Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email

is up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

> >

> > Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

> >

> > Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both

miserable. You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

> >

> > Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

> >

> > Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy

was.

> >

> > *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

> >

> > So frustrated!

> >

>

June 20, 2010

Disa--

I was married, for 13 years, to a master con man. His ability to subtly shift

blame and walk away clean after dropping huge piles of abuse was astonishing. He

never hit, he never screamed, he never name-called. He just subtly slandered me

and blame-shifted and undermined my sanity to the point where my whole

foundation was eaten away. And there was nothing to pin it on--he always was

the put-upon hero, and I was always the overbearing b**** who just wouldn't do

right by him. It was the most insidious and brain-washing trap. All of my

spidey senses went off when I read that conversation.

Therefore, I am incredibly attuned to subtle abuse, hidden abusers, and toxic

blame-shifting. (A form of abuse).

Here are the things I picked up from this conversation:

1) He is taking your one " flaw " and exploiting it to encompass ALL of the

marriage's problems. Of course, your " flaw " isn't a flaw at all--you have a

crazy mother. And it sounds like you manage it pretty well. Exploitation is a

dirty thing.

2) He knows nada is a sore point that will quickly take you down the path of

FOG. What a great manipulation tool! Just bring up " mommy " and he owns you.

Again--severe exploitation.

3) He is very subtly created a smoke-screen that will hide all of his crazy

behavior. Going through another's phone is crazy. No way around it--it is

intrusive to the extreme, and is highly typical for abusers.

4) He has effectively taken himself out of any responsibility for the marriage

by maligning you. The whole " I have nothing to work with because your crazy "

has given him a boundary-less situation where he can treat you as badly as he

wants and remain justified. No matter what he does, you are now at fault. Just

pin it on nada and, by default, you.

5) He slithers out of anything that would expose him for what he is. He is

intrusive, and acting inappropriately. He has complete lack of respect for you,

boundaries of basic human decency, and your individuality.

6) Overall, HE comes out clean and looking like a victim. YOU come out the

reason, creator, and essence of the marriage's difficulties. In spite of the

fact it may be the other way around. Big Big Big red flag.

Real relationships, I've learned, don't have an intentional and over-arching

dynamic of exploitation. Blame-shifting and denying responsibility AT THE

OTHER'S EXPENSE is never part of a non-abuse relationship.

Forget the occassional jackass theory. This guy will take you down if you let

him. Sorry--was that too strong?

I'm sorry you are in this situation. It is difficult no matter what he is or

isn't. It sucks and its hard.

>

> Him: You need to stop with your obsession.

>

> Me: What obsession?

>

> Him: Your mother. It's all you talk about. You need to move on.

>

> Me: I don't ever talk about it with you. If you didn't overhear my

conversations with other people you wouldn't even know I was thinking about it.

>

> Him: You think I'm like your mother and it's ruining us.

>

> Me: When have I ever said anything to make you think that? I don't think

you're anything like her.

>

> Him: That's why you don't like me sitting at your computer when your email is

up and why you freak out when I go through your phone.

>

> Me: So what? I don't like people looking at those things, why would you keep

doing it when you know it bothers me?

>

> Him: You need to get over this obsession because its made us both miserable.

You have a T now so you can bitch to her all day long.

>

> Me: You mean the marriage counselor? She's both of our T.

>

> Him: She's not mine, you go by yourself and talk about how bad your mommy was.

>

> *sigh* I can see him freaking out because he doesn't want to go to

counseling, I can also see I'm probably at the end of my marriage, what really

bothers me is being told I spend too much time talking about my " bad mommy

issues " . I'm making connections in a way I was never able to before and it's

not like I can count on him for emotional support with this.

>

> So frustrated!

>

June 20, 2010

> Real relationships, I've learned, don't have an intentional and over-arching

dynamic of exploitation. Blame-shifting and denying responsibility AT THE

OTHER'S EXPENSE is never part of a non-abuse relationship.

Karla, what you wrote above is brilliant and has been something so hard for me

to learn. Within my FOO and with people I became closely involved with as as an

adult this dynamic has played itself out over and over again. They do

something, I bring up in a non-angry non-confrontational way that they've hurt

me by this thing, they turn it around on me and suddenly I'm defending myself,

I'm the bad guy, wrong to be hurt, wrong to bring it up, *crazy* to even think

what they did was a problem. And given that I do doubt myself because I know

I'm not perfect and I've got fleas, this works way too well.

Any antidotes?

June 20, 2010

This is the way my ex husband acted towards me. I was with him for 18 years and

it's hard to even explain why I stayed with it. It was not all bad and we had a

child, but there was this way he turned everything around on me and then if I

defended myself, he would act as though I were being defensive. Many times I

remember I was going to leave; but I had no where to go really except back to

mom's! And I couldn't do that. Plus when we had our child, I couldn't figure

it out then at all.

With my ADD sometimes I would be at a loss because I would forget or lose track

that something negative went on with him or I'd lose my bearings within the

argument.

Over time, given the problems in my family, I got the distinct impression that

he did not want our child to BE like any of MY family. Like they were losers.

It really hurt my feelings and made me angry at the same time.

I guess because my self esteem got so low after all this time with him, judging

me, and my family rather than supporting me and having compassion for me, and

for them.

I know I have said it before and I'm only saying it to show how a person like

this can be. He is fully aware that I lost my father, my sister, my father left

us out of his will, my boyfriend left across the country and I have a back

injury from work. When I said (probably defensively from one of his comments)

that things had been hard for me lately, he said in this put down voice:

Everybody has a hard time, Pat.

Which is true, but certainly not for him. He has all his family; his family

totally backs him up financially if he needed it, gives him a job, etc etc.

(they have some wealth that he can depend on when they go) He never had to deal

with the things I did. Plus dealing with him on top of it.

(me dealing with him).

When we divorced, I felt pressured and pushed through it and I went through

mediation because I didn't want to pay a lawyer, but I wish I had done things

differently....because his life is pretty good right now, while I struggle. But

you know how it is....a long story.

The main point is how a person can turn things around on you, and make you seem

like the wrong one, and not have any sympathy for the emotional and mental

struggles in dealing with such a mental illness growing up. And in fact using

it against you.

The thing is..I am AWARE of my *fleas* and *FOG* ; he is not really.

~patricia

Re: " Your obsession with your mother is ruining

our marriage "