Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist, thoughts?

[Guest guest]

I am not on this list much anymore but your post caught my eye. I think this T

is giving you the willies because she is not the T for you. That's great she

wants to help Borderlines but like you say, when will someone help you? She's

not the person. You can have all the education in the world and still not fully

understand the impact and horror a BPD parent can have on their kids and family

members. Therapists are like hairdressers; you connect with some and don't with

others. It's not a reflection on you! It can be so hard to find a T you connect

with, believe me I know. There have been time I have not told a T my mom is dxed

as BPD. I describe the situation and all that because it's not the diagnosis

that is the problem, it's the person. Too many young therapists don't have the

experience that can give them a full view of BPD. It's all academic. You don't

have to be her learning patient, you are worth more. I'd cancel your next

appointment and keep

looking. I've been there, it's hard to find a good one I know but they are out

there.

Subject: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist, thoughts?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 10:05 PM

 

Hey all!  it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum.  The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO.  So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh

feeling.  What do you guys think?

She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a lot

with borderlines.  I thought this would be good because  I need someone who

gets how crazy the family system and nada can be.  She sounded nice, I've heard

she's smart. All good things.  But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following: 

    That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at.  She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

    I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts.  I could meet her

once and give it a try, or..

It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic but

that she empathizes with the borderline.  See, I found the comments " the person

they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the need to

defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.).  My

reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! "   I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful, but

my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful.  I want a safe place where I

don't have to defend myself.  I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom "  or " making allowances. "   Isn't there anywhere someone

can stand up for me?  I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating

envirnment and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not

bpd my feelings are less important?   It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's

that her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need

help.  So now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not

just  5 min phone call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to

find a therapist with any helpful awareness of bpd!

As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably have

overreacted. Could you guys chime in?  Should I go meet her or should I call

her and ask for another referral?

[Guest guest]

GAHHHHHH! Not overreacting! Run, don't walk to a new therapist! She can't be

right for you! Just my opinion. You deserve someone who can be super

validating.

Deanna

>

> Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum. The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO. So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling.

What do you guys think?

>

> She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a lot

with borderlines. I thought this would be good because I need someone who gets

how crazy the family system and nada can be. She sounded nice, I've heard she's

smart. All good things. But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following:

> That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at. She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I could meet her once

and give it a try, or..

>

> It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic

but that she empathizes with the borderline. See, I found the comments " the

person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the

need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.).

My reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! " I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

>

> I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful, but

my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I want a safe place where I don't

have to defend myself. I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom " or " making allowances. " Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important? It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that her

behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help. So now

i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just 5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist with

any helpful awareness of bpd!

>

> As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably

have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should I go meet her or should I

call her and ask for another referral?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

she definitely sounds like an advocate. I think it's great she explained all

this to you up front. I think you are justified in letting her know your

emotional reactions to what she said, and then I agree with others, look for

someone who is advocating for KO's of non-aware, non-responsibility-taking, and

non-remorseful borderlines.

>

> Hey all!  it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum.  The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO.  So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling. 

What do you guys think?

>

> She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a lot

with borderlines.  I thought this would be good because  I need someone who gets

how crazy the family system and nada can be.  She sounded nice, I've heard she's

smart. All good things.  But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following: 

>     That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at.  She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

>     I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts.  I could meet her once

and give it a try, or..

>

> It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic

but that she empathizes with the borderline.  See, I found the comments " the

person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the

need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.). 

My reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! "   I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

>

> I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful, but

my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful.  I want a safe place where I don't

have to defend myself.  I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom "  or " making allowances. "   Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me?  I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important?   It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that

her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help.  So

now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just  5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist

with any helpful awareness of bpd!

>

> As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably

have overreacted. Could you guys chime in?  Should I go meet her or should I

call her and ask for another referral?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think your uhoh feeling is based on valid concerns. She's told

you right up front that her feelings aren't neutral and that

she's going to tend to side against you. How likely is it that

she'll be able to give you good advice when her internal

feelings tell her to side with the person who is causing

problems for you? If she doesn't understand that there is more

to dealing with relatives with BPD than just being " mad " , she's

going to be terribly invalidating and more invalidation is not

what you need. Even if you keep your appointment with her and it

turns out that your initial impression was an over-reaction, are

you going to be able to feel comfortable and safe with her

knowing what she's already told you? If you're going to always

be worrying about the fact that she'll side against you, it

isn't going to matter how good she is at what she does or even

whether she actually does side against you.

At 11:05 PM 06/16/2010 More Private wrote:

>Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this

>forum. The family drama has been totally out of control, like

>to the point I'm worried someone is going to get hurt or killed

>in my FOO. So I got off my butt and got a referral and I just

>spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh

>feeling. What do you guys think?

>

>She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3

>years, works a lot with borderlines. I thought this would be

>good because I need someone who gets how crazy the family

>system and nada can be. She sounded nice, I've heard she's

>smart. All good things. But when I outlined my situation, i.e.

>mom is borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the

>following:

> That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds

> sometimes family members don't like that because she can't be

> pejorative to the person they are mad at. She says she is

> very aware of how much borderlines want to change and how

> sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I

> could meet her once and give it a try, or..

>

>It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something

>sympathetic but that she empathizes with the borderline. See,

>I found the comments " the person they are mad at " and

> " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the need to

>defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her

>struggle....etc.). My reaction to her comments about how they

>want to change was like " is she kidding?! " I asked her if she

>had awareness of borderlines who don't get into therapy or

>medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she

>didn't know what I was referring to.

>

>I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very

>remorseful, but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I

>want a safe place where I don't have to defend myself. I need

>a place where it's not always about me " understanding my mom "

>or " making allowances. " Isn't there anywhere someone can stand

>up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating

>envirnment and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow

>because I'm not bpd my feelings are less important? It's not

>that " I'm mad at her " , it's that her behavior is increasingly

>dangerous to those around her and I need help. So now i'm

>wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just 5

>min phone call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking

>hard to find a therapist with any helpful awareness of bpd!

>

>As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here

>and probably have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should

>I go meet her or should I call her and ask for another referral?

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Thanks everybody.  My husband got home late last night and when I shared it all

with him, he felt I wasn't overreacting either.  That it's just not a good

fit  I certainlysupport what this therapist does and am very glad she was up

front about it, I just wish she had suggested someone else...  I left her a

very friendly voicemail cancelling the appt based on what she had shared.  I

hope my nada finds somene like her someday.  Meantime, back to the drawing

board....

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 8:54:34 AM

Subject: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist,

thoughts?

 

I think your uhoh feeling is based on valid concerns. She's told

you right up front that her feelings aren't neutral and that

she's going to tend to side against you. How likely is it that

she'll be able to give you good advice when her internal

feelings tell her to side with the person who is causing

problems for you? If she doesn't understand that there is more

to dealing with relatives with BPD than just being " mad " , she's

going to be terribly invalidating and more invalidation is not

what you need. Even if you keep your appointment with her and it

turns out that your initial impression was an over-reaction, are

you going to be able to feel comfortable and safe with her

knowing what she's already told you? If you're going to always

be worrying about the fact that she'll side against you, it

isn't going to matter how good she is at what she does or even

whether she actually does side against you.

At 11:05 PM 06/16/2010 More Private wrote:

>Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this

>forum. The family drama has been totally out of control, like

>to the point I'm worried someone is going to get hurt or killed

>in my FOO. So I got off my butt and got a referral and I just

>spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh

>feeling. What do you guys think?

>

>She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3

>years, works a lot with borderlines. I thought this would be

>good because I need someone who gets how crazy the family

>system and nada can be. She sounded nice, I've heard she's

>smart. All good things. But when I outlined my situation, i.e.

>mom is borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the

>following:

> That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds

> sometimes family members don't like that because she can't be

> pejorative to the person they are mad at. She says she is

> very aware of how much borderlines want to change and how

> sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I

> could meet her once and give it a try, or..

>

>It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something

>sympathetic but that she empathizes with the borderline. See,

>I found the comments " the person they are mad at " and

> " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the need to

>defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her

>struggle....etc.). My reaction to her comments about how they

>want to change was like " is she kidding?! " I asked her if she

>had awareness of borderlines who don't get into therapy or

>medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she

>didn't know what I was referring to.

>

>I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very

>remorseful, but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I

>want a safe place where I don't have to defend myself. I need

>a place where it's not always about me " understanding my mom "

>or " making allowances. " Isn't there anywhere someone can stand

>up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating

>envirnment and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow

>because I'm not bpd my feelings are less important? It's not

>that " I'm mad at her " , it's that her behavior is increasingly

>dangerous to those around her and I need help. So now i'm

>wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just 5

>min phone call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking

>hard to find a therapist with any helpful awareness of bpd!

>

>As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here

>and probably have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should

>I go meet her or should I call her and ask for another referral?

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

It doesn't sound like she is ever going to be a decent therapist

unless she drastically changes her thinking. She is putting all bpds

and their family into one pot when she should be looking at each and

every situation individually.

Hopefully for her clients sake she will mature and stop making

assumptions.

Sent from my blueberry.

On Jun 17, 2010, at 10:31 AM, More Private

wrote:

> Thanks everybody. My husband got home late last night and when I

> shared it all with him, he felt I wasn't overreacting either. That

> it's just not a good fit I certainlysupport what this therapist

> does and am very glad she was up front about it, I just wish she had

> suggested someone else... I left her a very friendly voicemail

> cancelling the appt based on what she had shared. I hope my nada

> finds somene like her someday. Meantime, back to the drawing

> board....

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 8:54:34 AM

> Subject: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a

> therapist, thoughts?

>

>

> I think your uhoh feeling is based on valid concerns. She's told

> you right up front that her feelings aren't neutral and that

> she's going to tend to side against you. How likely is it that

> she'll be able to give you good advice when her internal

> feelings tell her to side with the person who is causing

> problems for you? If she doesn't understand that there is more

> to dealing with relatives with BPD than just being " mad " , she's

> going to be terribly invalidating and more invalidation is not

> what you need. Even if you keep your appointment with her and it

> turns out that your initial impression was an over-reaction, are

> you going to be able to feel comfortable and safe with her

> knowing what she's already told you? If you're going to always

> be worrying about the fact that she'll side against you, it

> isn't going to matter how good she is at what she does or even

> whether she actually does side against you.

>

> At 11:05 PM 06/16/2010 More Private wrote:

> >Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this

> >forum. The family drama has been totally out of control, like

> >to the point I'm worried someone is going to get hurt or killed

> >in my FOO. So I got off my butt and got a referral and I just

> >spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh

> >feeling. What do you guys think?

> >

> >She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3

> >years, works a lot with borderlines. I thought this would be

> >good because I need someone who gets how crazy the family

> >system and nada can be. She sounded nice, I've heard she's

> >smart. All good things. But when I outlined my situation, i.e.

> >mom is borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the

> >following:

> > That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds

> > sometimes family members don't like that because she can't be

> > pejorative to the person they are mad at. She says she is

> > very aware of how much borderlines want to change and how

> > sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> > I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I

> > could meet her once and give it a try, or..

> >

> >It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something

> >sympathetic but that she empathizes with the borderline. See,

> >I found the comments " the person they are mad at " and

> > " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the need to

> >defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her

> >struggle....etc.). My reaction to her comments about how they

> >want to change was like " is she kidding?! " I asked her if she

> >had awareness of borderlines who don't get into therapy or

> >medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she

> >didn't know what I was referring to.

> >

> >I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very

> >remorseful, but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I

> >want a safe place where I don't have to defend myself. I need

> >a place where it's not always about me " understanding my mom "

> >or " making allowances. " Isn't there anywhere someone can stand

> >up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating

> >envirnment and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow

> >because I'm not bpd my feelings are less important? It's not

> >that " I'm mad at her " , it's that her behavior is increasingly

> >dangerous to those around her and I need help. So now i'm

> >wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just 5

> >min phone call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking

> >hard to find a therapist with any helpful awareness of bpd!

> >

> >As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here

> >and probably have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should

> >I go meet her or should I call her and ask for another referral?

>

> --

> Katrina

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear MoreP, I also wanted to let you know that sometimes borderlines and

narcissists do become therapists, themselves (and often nurses, teachers or

social workers, too). We've had a few WTOs over the years who have posted how

mortifying it is to have a therapist AND a borderline for a mother. These

posters are often fascinatingly adept at cutting through the word-play and

mind-games, because they've experienced it at such a high-functioning level.

I'm not saying that your potential T *was* a borderline; it's impossible of

course for anyone to tell from just a small bit of information in one post. I'm

saying though, don't rule out the possibility that a therapist could have a

personality disorder, too. She could very well be a borderline who is trying to

prove that every borderline in the world is not 'bad', and so neither is she;

she could also be a co-D who is trying to 'save' every borderline in the world

and believe she has a 'real' mother who can also be saved in the process. In

short, when you get the creeps, you have the right to trust them and honor

yourself and react appropriately! And, I am very glad you did so.

Charlie

>

> Hey all!  it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum.  The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO.  So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling. 

What do you guys think?

>

> She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a lot

with borderlines.  I thought this would be good because  I need someone who gets

how crazy the family system and nada can be.  She sounded nice, I've heard she's

smart. All good things.  But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following: 

>     That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at.  She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

>     I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts.  I could meet her once

and give it a try, or..

>

> It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic

but that she empathizes with the borderline.  See, I found the comments " the

person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the

need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.). 

My reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! "   I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

>

> I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful, but

my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful.  I want a safe place where I don't

have to defend myself.  I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom "  or " making allowances. "   Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me?  I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important?   It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that

her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help.  So

now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just  5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist

with any helpful awareness of bpd!

>

> As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably

have overreacted. Could you guys chime in?  Should I go meet her or should I

call her and ask for another referral?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'd cancel the appointment. From the sounds of it, she doesn't understand that

this isn't a " mom not getting along with her DD " but a PD mother.

I went to a therapist like that. I may be wrong here, and I know I am sensitive,

but I was looking for validation that it wasn't okay to be abused. I got pretty

much the same thing, the T pointing out her side of it? I don't think abuse ever

deserves their side, but I realize I am oversensitive.

I would not waste a minute of your time by a T who wants to train you to go back

for more.

I really wish more therapists understood how damaging BPD and abuse is to

children, even grown ones. Not because we had bad childhoods, I could get over

that. It is the fact that they CONTINUE to do it. Then they say " sorry! " and

then do it again. over and over and over. There is no remorse or sorry. In my

case, my nada got sicker and more abusive as I got older and started trying to

move forward and be happy in my life.

I'd find another therapist. Sorry.

> >

> > Hey all!  it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum.  The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO.  So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling. 

What do you guys think?

> >

> > She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a

lot with borderlines.  I thought this would be good because  I need someone who

gets how crazy the family system and nada can be.  She sounded nice, I've heard

she's smart. All good things.  But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following: 

> >     That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at.  She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> >     I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts.  I could meet her

once and give it a try, or..

> >

> > It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic

but that she empathizes with the borderline.  See, I found the comments " the

person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the

need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.). 

My reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! "   I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

> >

> > I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful,

but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful.  I want a safe place where I

don't have to defend myself.  I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom "  or " making allowances. "   Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me?  I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important?   It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that

her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help.  So

now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just  5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist

with any helpful awareness of bpd!

> >

> > As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably

have overreacted. Could you guys chime in?  Should I go meet her or should I

call her and ask for another referral?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It's my first time writing here (after a few months of reading), but I wanted to

throw my two cents in, too, about looking for another therapist. I'm amazed

that there are therapists who understand BPD, but who DON'T understand how it

affects the KO.

The therapist who was the first person to suggest to me that my mom was BPD was

also the one who, after I'd been Low Contact with my uBPD mom for months, asked

conversationally if I was going to visit her this summer. What!?!?

It can be sort of surreal; therapists are professionals, we expect them to be

experts, but sometimes they just really aren't equipped.

>

> Hey all!  it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum.  The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO.  So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling. 

What do you guys think?

>

> She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a lot

with borderlines.  I thought this would be good because  I need someone who gets

how crazy the family system and nada can be.  She sounded nice, I've heard she's

smart. All good things.  But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following: 

>     That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at.  She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

>     I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts.  I could meet her once

and give it a try, or..

>

> It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic

but that she empathizes with the borderline.  See, I found the comments " the

person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the

need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.). 

My reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! "   I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

>

> I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful, but

my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful.  I want a safe place where I don't

have to defend myself.  I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom "  or " making allowances. "   Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me?  I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important?   It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that

her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help.  So

now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just  5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist

with any helpful awareness of bpd!

>

> As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably

have overreacted. Could you guys chime in?  Should I go meet her or should I

call her and ask for another referral?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Hopefully for her clients sake she will mature and stop making

> assumptions.

And how many clients will get harmed or have critical delays in getting them

help they need while she's " maturing " ? Forgive the bitterness, but this issues

personally has cost me a great deal.

[Guest guest]

WOW Charlie! Very astute! Very well put. You must have some therapy

experience yourself! Don't we all!

Deanna

> >

> > Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum. The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO. So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling.

What do you guys think?

> >

> > She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a

lot with borderlines. I thought this would be good because I need someone who

gets how crazy the family system and nada can be. She sounded nice, I've heard

she's smart. All good things. But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following:

> > That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at. She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> > I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I could meet her

once and give it a try, or..

> >

> > It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic

but that she empathizes with the borderline. See, I found the comments " the

person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the

need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.).

My reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! " I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

> >

> > I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful,

but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I want a safe place where I

don't have to defend myself. I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom " or " making allowances. " Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important? It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that her

behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help. So now

i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just 5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist with

any helpful awareness of bpd!

> >

> > As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably

have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should I go meet her or should I

call her and ask for another referral?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You guys are all going to shake your heads at me knowingly when you read this.

First, Charlotte. Yes, well aware of this. My Nada is off the charts bpd

(according to my old therapist who was great and specialzed in bpd), and she

was.....drum roll.... a therapist for a while! granted a christian counselor,

but she was trained and supported because she bamboozeled her advisors so well.

The reason you will shake your heads is that this therapist called me back and

talked me into meeting for one session. I don't know what I was thinking. I

feel I'm going to give it one shot, because I still feel it would be worth

giving her a second to explain herself when I clarify what she said that

bothered me. if it doesn't feel right after that session, I'm looking

elsewhere. But I know what it is to have clients run with something I've said,

so I want to give her a chance to explain.

I'm still not good at boundaries, thought I've gotten a lot better, I tend to

give people the benefit of the doubt (I think judging a dumping people is a huge

problem for me because nada is so vitriolic about it).

Also, I need to be more open about some of my own behaviors, which have gotten

much better over the years, but I hate it that sometimes when scared and tired

and overwhealmed I can really spew the blame and nastiness on my husband. I

know i act like nada on a good day, but I hate it. I'm hoping maybe if she's

sympathetic to bpd maybe she'll not condemn me.

I'm going in there with some walls up, and I'll probably treat it more like an

interview of her than a first session for me and try to get a sense for where

she stands.

But, yes, I know it's probably stupid....

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 12:13:08 PM

Subject: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist,

thoughts?

Dear MoreP, I also wanted to let you know that sometimes borderlines and

narcissists do become therapists, themselves (and often nurses, teachers or

social workers, too). We've had a few WTOs over the years who have posted how

mortifying it is to have a therapist AND a borderline for a mother. These

posters are often fascinatingly adept at cutting through the word-play and

mind-games, because they've experienced it at such a high-functioning level.

I'm not saying that your potential T *was* a borderline; it's impossible of

course for anyone to tell from just a small bit of information in one post. I'm

saying though, don't rule out the possibility that a therapist could have a

personality disorder, too. She could very well be a borderline who is trying to

prove that every borderline in the world is not 'bad', and so neither is she;

she could also be a co-D who is trying to 'save' every borderline in the world

and believe she has a 'real' mother who can also be saved in the process. In

short, when you get the creeps, you have the right to trust them and honor

yourself and react appropriately! And, I am very glad you did so.

Charlie

>

> Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum. The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO. So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling.

What do you guys think?

>

> She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a lot

with borderlines. I thought this would be good because I need someone who gets

how crazy the family system and nada can be. She sounded nice, I've heard she's

smart. All good things. But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following:

> That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at. She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I could meet her once

and give it a try, or..

>

> It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic

but that she empathizes with the borderline. See, I found the comments " the

person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the

need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.).

My reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! " I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

>

> I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful, but

my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I want a safe place where I don't

have to defend myself. I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom " or " making allowances. " Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important? It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that her

behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help. So now

i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just 5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist with

any helpful awareness of bpd!

>

> As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably

have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should I go meet her or should I

call her and ask for another referral?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

OH, you're kidding! Your nada *is* a therapist (of a sort)? Goodness. Well,

there you go. MoreP, I had a similar experience with a therapist in the

Southern region of the US--at the time I was in a very abusive relationship and

feared for my physical safety. The therapist started our first session trying

to convince me that he wasn't being abusive because he didn't 'mean' it that

way--trying to get me to take responsibility for 'my share' of the relationship.

That approach makes sense, I guess, if the other person does not mean you harm.

But this therapist was asking me to dishonor my gut reaction--that I was in

emotional and physical *danger*. Therapists are supposed to protect your

physical safety, first and foremost. But SO used was I to questioning myself,

and having those in authority discount me, that I, also went back for a second

session. She tried to hear my point of view, and she even read the books I lent

her, but she just didn't seem to *get* it. For whatever reason--their own PDs,

their own biases, I don't know--some therapists don't seem to comprehend the

idea of truly toxic people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when

my body tells me someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to

stay away from them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk

into a landmine. Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance, just in

case. Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be able to

question yourself a little--it's what separates us from being nadas.

Best,

Charlie

> >

> > Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum. The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO. So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling.

What do you guys think?

> >

> > She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a

lot with borderlines. I thought this would be good because I need someone who

gets how crazy the family system and nada can be. She sounded nice, I've heard

she's smart. All good things. But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following:

> > That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at. She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> > I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I could meet her

once and give it a try, or..

> >

> > It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic

but that she empathizes with the borderline. See, I found the comments " the

person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the

need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.).

My reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! " I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

> >

> > I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful,

but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I want a safe place where I

don't have to defend myself. I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom " or " making allowances. " Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important? It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that her

behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help. So now

i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just 5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist with

any helpful awareness of bpd!

> >

> > As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably

have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should I go meet her or should I

call her and ask for another referral?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

i'd ask for another referral, you are the client, not the borderline whom she

seems to think she is treating!!  you need an advocate for *you* not for the

borderline in your life. by all means, try to find someone who can listen to you

and your situation.

Subject: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist, thoughts?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 10:05 PM

 

Hey all!  it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum.  The

family drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried

someone is going to get hurt or killed in my FOO.  So I got off my butt and got

a referral and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an

uhoh feeling.  What do you guys think?

She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a lot

with borderlines.  I thought this would be good because  I need someone who

gets how crazy the family system and nada can be.  She sounded nice, I've heard

she's smart. All good things.  But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following: 

    That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at.  She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

    I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts.  I could meet her

once and give it a try, or..

It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic but

that she empathizes with the borderline.  See, I found the comments " the person

they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the need to

defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.).  My

reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! "   I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful, but

my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful.  I want a safe place where I

don't have to defend myself.  I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom "  or " making allowances. "   Isn't there anywhere someone

can stand up for me?  I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating

envirnment and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not

bpd my feelings are less important?   It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's

that her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need

help.  So now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not

just  5 min phone call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to

find a therapist with any helpful awareness of bpd!

As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably have

overreacted. Could you guys chime in?  Should I go meet her or should I call

her and ask for another referral?

[Guest guest]

" ...That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at. "

Hey there, I could be wrong and others might disagree but I think DBT is a

method of treatment used mostly for borderlines. I belong to an online community

for sexual abuse survivors - and as we have seen many times, " survivors " (in

quotes because I really dislike how overused that word is) can develop

borderline character behaviors. I have always thought that people with BPD could

be helped if they wanted to be helped or wanted to figure it out. I also have

seen a lot of young folks who learn DBT then decide themselves to become

therapists. It's frightening how many fairly unstable and untreated/unhealed

abused women become therapists. I'm not saying that wounded women can't become

great Therapists - they can! I would seriously wonder why a therapist would

right out of the gate tell you that she " favors " the BPD unless she has reason

to understand their behavior on a deep level. I actually hate it when Therapists

talk instantly badly about Borderlines - as most do. I agree - pay attention to

your gut. find someone who can be there for you - not make you feel more guilty

or make you find a way to " excuse " her behavior. I also wonder sometimes when I

hear horrible stories on here if some aren't dealing with more than BPD. How

much have you read about sociopaths? There is a good book out there called " the

sociopath next door " . My mom is NOT sociopathic, but even still, I see many

character traits that ring a bell. lack of empathy is a BPD trait that can

represent many illnesses. Even a Therapist who off the bat already tells you

that she will not have empathy for you!

interesting huh? run. don't walk. I agree. You already have enough lack of

empathy in your life - why would you pay for more? ame

[Guest guest]

" I hope my nada finds someone like her someday. "

oh, I think I disagree with you on this one. I agree that our NADA's need to

find therapists who understand them so that perhaps they can help them but I

gotta tell you...my mom can turn people to " her side " so quickly a T who takes

her side automatically and lets her sit there and bitch about how much of a

victim she is blah blah blah would NOT be helpful at all.

My mom needs a T who can help her see how her behavior is the issue and NOT how

OK her behavior is. If this T is saying she sides with the BPD, then she will

validate her twisted feelings. The only thing worse than an out of control NADA

is a NADA with a T who says she is correct in her twistings.

yikes. Imagine THAT one? ugh. ame.

glad your H validates you. Sometimes I think our goal is to be able to validate

OURSELVES. That is what I am working on with the NC thing I am doing. this is

week 5 (my anxiety is decreasing) and of course father's day puts a kink in

that. If I don't call, I will be seen as " drawing a line in the sand " . I am not

looking for this to be a lifetime decision but with my mom, she can easily turn

it into that just for spite. and well, the mileage she gets out of having a

daughter - she has done so much for in her lifetime - refuse to speak to

her...wow. miles and miles and miles! (if she had any friends left she could

boo-hoo to that is!)

[Guest guest]

Charlotte, you wrote: " some therapists don't seem to comprehend the idea of

truly toxic people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when my body

tells me

someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to stay away

from them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk

into a landmine. "

Thankyou!! Exactly! I was continuing to process this and have kept feeling

apprehensive about this upcoming therapy session since I let myself get talked

back into it. I was thinking yesterday along the lines of if I found myself in

an alley with a group of gang members, my response should not be " well, you're

overreacting, you shouldn't be so fearful. " which is how I've been thinking

about nada's physical violence, but " what the heck are you doing hanging out in

this neighborhood? Get out of here and don't come back. " two weeks ago a family

member had an experience that finally validated the fact that I remain fearful

for physical safety of myself and my child when nada is present. In the sense of

like really truly risk of serious injury or even death. I hate it that someone

was nearly killed for me to be validated, but nonetheless I am standing a little

taller and being able to put away some of nada's training that I am the crazy

one who runs with

things.

Charlotte also wrote: " Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance,

just in case. Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be able

to question yourself a little--it's what separates us from

being nadas. "

Thanks, that is very kind to say. Because of course I'm wide awake to the fact

that it is totally silly to meet with this therapist to give her a chance, when

I've spent three days composing in my mind a defense of myself because I alreayd

feel on the defensive. Even the second phone call with her I later realized

what she said was that " her understanding of the disorder could be part of my

healing process because it would help me with lack of acceptance and help me to

understand " , and something about how " family members want to vent. " She did it

again! Even if she's speaking off the cuff and if I let her I'd understand

where she's coming from, she keeps saying invalidating things. She has not once

asked me a question.

Was it who put it in an earlier email: " even if she seems ok when you meet

her, will you ever feel completely safe? " Those words stuck with me. I've been

so worried about being judgemental and dismissive to this therapist, I've been

ready to walk into a situation where I know I don't feel safe.

I'm not going to therapy because I need to " vent'! I can do that on WTO! I

also don't have a lack of acceptance about nada's disorder, and I actually

understand almost organically why nada behaves like she does. I was so enmeshed

with her I felt her feelings. She so totally destroyed my personality, or

attempted to, that I was starting to act like her at times before I broke away

from the family. I know why she does what she does! I don't need to understand

it better. That's the whole freaking problem! I understand all too well her

terrible feelings of loneliness and fear, her terror of abandonment--that

empathy kept me stuck. But I also hold her responsible for herself, because

against all odds, I did not turn out like her, because I TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR

MYSELF AND REFUSED TO ACCEPT MY OWN BAD BEHAVIOR AND LOOKED FOR HELP UNTIL I

FOUND IT SO I COULD BE BETTER.

I know, maybe i'm not fair, maybe it is all a crazy illness and I just didn't

have the gene...

What I'm struggling with now is accepting that she is so toxic and dangerous

that the LC I'm on with her is likely going to need to be permanent. That she is

as dangerous as I've alwasy feared, that I wasn't making that up. And that I'm

pretty much a well adjusted easy to live with person when I have NC with her,

but go on shame spirals etc when I go anywhere near her. What I'm trying to

accept is that there is no interaction I have with her where she is not in some

way abusive, even if she's smiling at me. I'm trying to accept that I'm really

losing/ have lost her, and that that's a good thing and is okay. That it's time

for me to trust my own judgement and that it's okay to let nada be responsible

for herself and reap the natural consequences of her toxic behavior, i.e. losing

relationship with me. I'm pretty sure this therapist isn't going to accept

that.

As my friend put it, " At this point it doesn't matter why she does what she

does, it's effect on you is still the same. " I really just wanted therapy to

heal and grow and to get over the shock of nada almost killing my father two

weeks ago. But this therapist has no idea about that... Apparently I am mad

and wanted to vent and be pejorative about my poor remorseful bpd mother who

really wants to change so much and feels so bad about what she does. Hee Hee.

Anyway, I'm calling tonight to definitely cancel this appointment and to trust

my own judgement about goodness of fit with this therapist. And I'm not going

to let myself second guess myself again, or take any further phone calls from

her.

the one good thing about it is after spending a few days practicing standing up

to her I suddenly feel a lot more convinced that it's not wrong to be LC or even

NC with nada with what's going on. I'm not being mean... I'm just getting out

of a bad neighborhood.

Are male therapists any better?

Oh God, I'm in so much pain. But, I'm not depressed, and I have so say healthy

grief pain is not so bad compared to depressed pain.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 1:31:01 PM

Subject: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist,

thoughts?

OH, you're kidding! Your nada *is* a therapist (of a sort)? Goodness. Well,

there you go. MoreP, I had a similar experience with a therapist in the

Southern region of the US--at the time I was in a very abusive relationship and

feared for my physical safety. The therapist started our first session trying

to convince me that he wasn't being abusive because he didn't 'mean' it that

way--trying to get me to take responsibility for 'my share' of the relationship.

That approach makes sense, I guess, if the other person does not mean you harm.

But this therapist was asking me to dishonor my gut reaction--that I was in

emotional and physical *danger*. Therapists are supposed to protect your

physical safety, first and foremost. But SO used was I to questioning myself,

and having those in authority discount me, that I, also went back for a second

session. She tried to hear my point of view, and she even read the books I lent

her, but she just didn't

seem to *get* it. For whatever reason--their own PDs, their own biases, I

don't know--some therapists don't seem to comprehend the idea of truly toxic

people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when my body tells me

someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to stay away from

them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk into a

landmine. Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance, just in case.

Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be able to question

yourself a little--it's what separates us from being nadas.

Best,

Charlie

> >

> > Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum. The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO. So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling.

What do you guys think?

> >

> > She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a

lot with borderlines. I thought this would be good because I need someone who

gets how crazy the family system and nada can be. She sounded nice, I've heard

she's smart. All good things. But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following:

> > That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at. She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> > I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I could meet her

once and give it a try, or..

> >

> > It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic

but that she empathizes with the borderline. See, I found the comments " the

person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the

need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.).

My reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! " I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

> >

> > I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful,

but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I want a safe place where I

don't have to defend myself. I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom " or " making allowances. " Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important? It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that her

behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help. So now

i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just 5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist with

any helpful awareness of bpd!

> >

> > As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably

have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should I go meet her or should I

call her and ask for another referral?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Charlie,

I really understand what you mean when you say you understand your

NADA too much. As for your therapist. I think I fall into the same trap I

think you're falling into. I.e. we think therapists are all knowing all

good and can make no mistakes. Therapists are people too, and I'm sure some

of them have their own unresolved emotional issues which may make it hard

for them to connect to others. Anywho, if your emotional needs are not

being met by your , then they are not being met, end of story. Your

emotional needs come first, end of story part 2.

I can't tell for certain, but I think it sounds like you a grieving.

For all the love you never had, and for the abuse, and for how it's

affected you and made your so unhappy.

May you find peace,

On,

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 8:34 PM, More Private wrote:

>

>

> Charlotte, you wrote: " some therapists don't seem to comprehend the idea of

> truly toxic people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when my

> body tells me

> someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to stay away

> from them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk

> into a landmine. "

>

> Thankyou!! Exactly! I was continuing to process this and have kept feeling

> apprehensive about this upcoming therapy session since I let myself get

> talked back into it. I was thinking yesterday along the lines of if I found

> myself in an alley with a group of gang members, my response should not be

> " well, you're overreacting, you shouldn't be so fearful. " which is how I've

> been thinking about nada's physical violence, but " what the heck are you

> doing hanging out in this neighborhood? Get out of here and don't come

> back. " two weeks ago a family member had an experience that finally

> validated the fact that I remain fearful for physical safety of myself and

> my child when nada is present. In the sense of like really truly risk of

> serious injury or even death. I hate it that someone was nearly killed for

> me to be validated, but nonetheless I am standing a little taller and being

> able to put away some of nada's training that I am the crazy one who runs

> with

> things.

>

> Charlotte also wrote: " Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance,

> just in case. Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be

> able to question yourself a little--it's what separates us from

> being nadas. "

>

> Thanks, that is very kind to say. Because of course I'm wide awake to the

> fact that it is totally silly to meet with this therapist to give her a

> chance, when I've spent three days composing in my mind a defense of myself

> because I alreayd feel on the defensive. Even the second phone call with her

> I later realized what she said was that " her understanding of the disorder

> could be part of my healing process because it would help me with lack of

> acceptance and help me to understand " , and something about how " family

> members want to vent. " She did it again! Even if she's speaking off the cuff

> and if I let her I'd understand where she's coming from, she keeps saying

> invalidating things. She has not once asked me a question.

>

> Was it who put it in an earlier email: " even if she seems ok when you

> meet her, will you ever feel completely safe? " Those words stuck with me.

> I've been so worried about being judgemental and dismissive to this

> therapist, I've been ready to walk into a situation where I know I don't

> feel safe.

>

> I'm not going to therapy because I need to " vent'! I can do that on WTO! I

> also don't have a lack of acceptance about nada's disorder, and I actually

> understand almost organically why nada behaves like she does. I was so

> enmeshed with her I felt her feelings. She so totally destroyed my

> personality, or attempted to, that I was starting to act like her at times

> before I broke away from the family. I know why she does what she does! I

> don't need to understand it better. That's the whole freaking problem! I

> understand all too well her terrible feelings of loneliness and fear, her

> terror of abandonment--that empathy kept me stuck. But I also hold her

> responsible for herself, because against all odds, I did not turn out like

> her, because I TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR MYSELF AND REFUSED TO ACCEPT MY OWN

> BAD BEHAVIOR AND LOOKED FOR HELP UNTIL I FOUND IT SO I COULD BE BETTER.

>

> I know, maybe i'm not fair, maybe it is all a crazy illness and I just

> didn't have the gene...

>

> What I'm struggling with now is accepting that she is so toxic and

> dangerous that the LC I'm on with her is likely going to need to be

> permanent. That she is as dangerous as I've alwasy feared, that I wasn't

> making that up. And that I'm pretty much a well adjusted easy to live with

> person when I have NC with her, but go on shame spirals etc when I go

> anywhere near her. What I'm trying to accept is that there is no interaction

> I have with her where she is not in some way abusive, even if she's smiling

> at me. I'm trying to accept that I'm really losing/ have lost her, and that

> that's a good thing and is okay. That it's time for me to trust my own

> judgement and that it's okay to let nada be responsible for herself and reap

> the natural consequences of her toxic behavior, i.e. losing relationship

> with me. I'm pretty sure this therapist isn't going to accept that.

>

> As my friend put it, " At this point it doesn't matter why she does what she

> does, it's effect on you is still the same. " I really just wanted therapy to

> heal and grow and to get over the shock of nada almost killing my father two

> weeks ago. But this therapist has no idea about that... Apparently I am mad

> and wanted to vent and be pejorative about my poor remorseful bpd mother who

> really wants to change so much and feels so bad about what she does. Hee

> Hee.

>

> Anyway, I'm calling tonight to definitely cancel this appointment and to

> trust my own judgement about goodness of fit with this therapist. And I'm

> not going to let myself second guess myself again, or take any further phone

> calls from her.

>

> the one good thing about it is after spending a few days practicing

> standing up to her I suddenly feel a lot more convinced that it's not wrong

> to be LC or even NC with nada with what's going on. I'm not being mean...

> I'm just getting out of a bad neighborhood.

>

> Are male therapists any better?

>

> Oh God, I'm in so much pain. But, I'm not depressed, and I have so say

> healthy grief pain is not so bad compared to depressed pain.

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: charlottehoneychurch

<charlottehoneychurch@...<charlottehoneychurch%40yahoo.com>

> >

> To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 1:31:01 PM

>

> Subject: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist,

> thoughts?

>

> OH, you're kidding! Your nada *is* a therapist (of a sort)? Goodness. Well,

> there you go. MoreP, I had a similar experience with a therapist in the

> Southern region of the US--at the time I was in a very abusive relationship

> and feared for my physical safety. The therapist started our first session

> trying to convince me that he wasn't being abusive because he didn't 'mean'

> it that way--trying to get me to take responsibility for 'my share' of the

> relationship. That approach makes sense, I guess, if the other person does

> not mean you harm. But this therapist was asking me to dishonor my gut

> reaction--that I was in emotional and physical *danger*. Therapists are

> supposed to protect your physical safety, first and foremost. But SO used

> was I to questioning myself, and having those in authority discount me, that

> I, also went back for a second session. She tried to hear my point of view,

> and she even read the books I lent her, but she just didn't

> seem to *get* it. For whatever reason--their own PDs, their own biases, I

> don't know--some therapists don't seem to comprehend the idea of truly toxic

> people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when my body tells me

> someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to stay away from

> them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk into a

> landmine. Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance, just in case.

> Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be able to question

> yourself a little--it's what separates us from being nadas.

>

> Best,

> Charlie

>

>

> > >

> > > Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum. The

> family drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried

> someone is going to get hurt or killed in my FOO. So I got off my butt and

> got a referral and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm

> having an uhoh feeling. What do you guys think?

> > >

> > > She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years,

> works a lot with borderlines. I thought this would be good because I need

> someone who gets how crazy the family system and nada can be. She sounded

> nice, I've heard she's smart. All good things. But when I outlined my

> situation, i.e. mom is borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the

> following:

> > > That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes

> family members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person

> they are mad at. She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to

> change and how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> > > I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I could meet her

> once and give it a try, or..

> > >

> > > It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something

> sympathetic but that she empathizes with the borderline. See, I found the

> comments " the person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and

> immediately felt the need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I

> undwerstand her struggle....etc.). My reaction to her comments about how

> they want to change was like " is she kidding?! " I asked her if she had

> awareness of borderlines who don't get into therapy or medaen mothers (yes,

> I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't know what I was referring

> to.

> > >

> > > I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very

> remorseful, but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I want a safe

> place where I don't have to defend myself. I need a place where it's not

> always about me " understanding my mom " or " making allowances. " Isn't there

> anywhere someone can stand up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an

> invalidating envirnment and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow

> because I'm not bpd my feelings are less important? It's not that " I'm mad

> at her " , it's that her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around

> her and I need help. So now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a

> chance (not just 5 min phone call), or cancel and start over. It's so

> freaking hard to find a therapist with any helpful awareness of bpd!

> > >

> > > As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and

> probably have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should I go meet her or

> should I call her and ask for another referral?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yes, , I am grieving. But right now its grieving because I've lost my last

vestige of trust in nada, and illusions about her. She spent a year trying to

get my father to kill himself recently. She has been doing that to my brother

recently. And she physically almost killed my father two weeks ago. I'm in

shock I think. I knew nada tried to kill my spirit, and i knew the natural

logical consequence of what she taught me about myself would have been suicide.

But somehow stepping out to actually actively doing these things has shocked me

to my core. I'm grieving yes. I'm also feeling something else I don't know how

to express and I don't have words for.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sun, June 20, 2010 8:24:41 PM

Subject: Re: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist,

thoughts?

Hi Charlie,

I really understand what you mean when you say you understand your

NADA too much. As for your therapist. I think I fall into the same trap I

think you're falling into. I.e. we think therapists are all knowing all

good and can make no mistakes. Therapists are people too, and I'm sure some

of them have their own unresolved emotional issues which may make it hard

for them to connect to others. Anywho, if your emotional needs are not

being met by your , then they are not being met, end of story. Your

emotional needs come first, end of story part 2.

I can't tell for certain, but I think it sounds like you a grieving.

For all the love you never had, and for the abuse, and for how it's

affected you and made your so unhappy.

May you find peace,

On,

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 8:34 PM, More Private wrote:

>

>

> Charlotte, you wrote: " some therapists don't seem to comprehend the idea of

> truly toxic people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when my

> body tells me

> someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to stay away

> from them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk

> into a landmine. "

>

> Thankyou!! Exactly! I was continuing to process this and have kept feeling

> apprehensive about this upcoming therapy session since I let myself get

> talked back into it. I was thinking yesterday along the lines of if I found

> myself in an alley with a group of gang members, my response should not be

> " well, you're overreacting, you shouldn't be so fearful. " which is how I've

> been thinking about nada's physical violence, but " what the heck are you

> doing hanging out in this neighborhood? Get out of here and don't come

> back. " two weeks ago a family member had an experience that finally

> validated the fact that I remain fearful for physical safety of myself and

> my child when nada is present. In the sense of like really truly risk of

> serious injury or even death. I hate it that someone was nearly killed for

> me to be validated, but nonetheless I am standing a little taller and being

> able to put away some of nada's training that I am the crazy one who runs

> with

> things.

>

> Charlotte also wrote: " Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance,

> just in case. Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be

> able to question yourself a little--it's what separates us from

> being nadas. "

>

> Thanks, that is very kind to say. Because of course I'm wide awake to the

> fact that it is totally silly to meet with this therapist to give her a

> chance, when I've spent three days composing in my mind a defense of myself

> because I alreayd feel on the defensive. Even the second phone call with her

> I later realized what she said was that " her understanding of the disorder

> could be part of my healing process because it would help me with lack of

> acceptance and help me to understand " , and something about how " family

> members want to vent. " She did it again! Even if she's speaking off the cuff

> and if I let her I'd understand where she's coming from, she keeps saying

> invalidating things. She has not once asked me a question.

>

> Was it who put it in an earlier email: " even if she seems ok when you

> meet her, will you ever feel completely safe? " Those words stuck with me.

> I've been so worried about being judgemental and dismissive to this

> therapist, I've been ready to walk into a situation where I know I don't

> feel safe.

>

> I'm not going to therapy because I need to " vent'! I can do that on WTO! I

> also don't have a lack of acceptance about nada's disorder, and I actually

> understand almost organically why nada behaves like she does. I was so

> enmeshed with her I felt her feelings. She so totally destroyed my

> personality, or attempted to, that I was starting to act like her at times

> before I broke away from the family. I know why she does what she does! I

> don't need to understand it better. That's the whole freaking problem! I

> understand all too well her terrible feelings of loneliness and fear, her

> terror of abandonment--that empathy kept me stuck. But I also hold her

> responsible for herself, because against all odds, I did not turn out like

> her, because I TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR MYSELF AND REFUSED TO ACCEPT MY OWN

> BAD BEHAVIOR AND LOOKED FOR HELP UNTIL I FOUND IT SO I COULD BE BETTER.

>

> I know, maybe i'm not fair, maybe it is all a crazy illness and I just

> didn't have the gene...

>

> What I'm struggling with now is accepting that she is so toxic and

> dangerous that the LC I'm on with her is likely going to need to be

> permanent. That she is as dangerous as I've alwasy feared, that I wasn't

> making that up. And that I'm pretty much a well adjusted easy to live with

> person when I have NC with her, but go on shame spirals etc when I go

> anywhere near her. What I'm trying to accept is that there is no interaction

> I have with her where she is not in some way abusive, even if she's smiling

> at me. I'm trying to accept that I'm really losing/ have lost her, and that

> that's a good thing and is okay. That it's time for me to trust my own

> judgement and that it's okay to let nada be responsible for herself and reap

> the natural consequences of her toxic behavior, i.e. losing relationship

> with me. I'm pretty sure this therapist isn't going to accept that.

>

> As my friend put it, " At this point it doesn't matter why she does what she

> does, it's effect on you is still the same. " I really just wanted therapy to

> heal and grow and to get over the shock of nada almost killing my father two

> weeks ago. But this therapist has no idea about that... Apparently I am mad

> and wanted to vent and be pejorative about my poor remorseful bpd mother who

> really wants to change so much and feels so bad about what she does. Hee

> Hee.

>

> Anyway, I'm calling tonight to definitely cancel this appointment and to

> trust my own judgement about goodness of fit with this therapist. And I'm

> not going to let myself second guess myself again, or take any further phone

> calls from her.

>

> the one good thing about it is after spending a few days practicing

> standing up to her I suddenly feel a lot more convinced that it's not wrong

> to be LC or even NC with nada with what's going on. I'm not being mean...

> I'm just getting out of a bad neighborhood.

>

> Are male therapists any better?

>

> Oh God, I'm in so much pain. But, I'm not depressed, and I have so say

> healthy grief pain is not so bad compared to depressed pain.

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: charlottehoneychurch

<charlottehoneychurch@...<charlottehoneychurch%40yahoo.com>

> >

> To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 1:31:01 PM

>

> Subject: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist,

> thoughts?

>

> OH, you're kidding! Your nada *is* a therapist (of a sort)? Goodness. Well,

> there you go. MoreP, I had a similar experience with a therapist in the

> Southern region of the US--at the time I was in a very abusive relationship

> and feared for my physical safety. The therapist started our first session

> trying to convince me that he wasn't being abusive because he didn't 'mean'

> it that way--trying to get me to take responsibility for 'my share' of the

> relationship. That approach makes sense, I guess, if the other person does

> not mean you harm. But this therapist was asking me to dishonor my gut

> reaction--that I was in emotional and physical *danger*. Therapists are

> supposed to protect your physical safety, first and foremost. But SO used

> was I to questioning myself, and having those in authority discount me, that

> I, also went back for a second session. She tried to hear my point of view,

> and she even read the books I lent her, but she just didn't

> seem to *get* it. For whatever reason--their own PDs, their own biases, I

> don't know--some therapists don't seem to comprehend the idea of truly toxic

> people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when my body tells me

> someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to stay away from

> them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk into a

> landmine. Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance, just in case.

> Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be able to question

> yourself a little--it's what separates us from being nadas.

>

> Best,

> Charlie

>

>

> > >

> > > Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum. The

> family drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried

> someone is going to get hurt or killed in my FOO. So I got off my butt and

> got a referral and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm

> having an uhoh feeling. What do you guys think?

> > >

> > > She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years,

> works a lot with borderlines. I thought this would be good because I need

> someone who gets how crazy the family system and nada can be. She sounded

> nice, I've heard she's smart. All good things. But when I outlined my

> situation, i.e. mom is borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the

> following:

> > > That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes

> family members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person

> they are mad at. She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to

> change and how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> > > I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I could meet her

> once and give it a try, or..

> > >

> > > It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something

> sympathetic but that she empathizes with the borderline. See, I found the

> comments " the person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and

> immediately felt the need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I

> undwerstand her struggle....etc.). My reaction to her comments about how

> they want to change was like " is she kidding?! " I asked her if she had

> awareness of borderlines who don't get into therapy or medaen mothers (yes,

> I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't know what I was referring

> to.

> > >

> > > I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very

> remorseful, but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I want a safe

> place where I don't have to defend myself. I need a place where it's not

> always about me " understanding my mom " or " making allowances. " Isn't there

> anywhere someone can stand up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an

> invalidating envirnment and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow

> because I'm not bpd my feelings are less important? It's not that " I'm mad

> at her " , it's that her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around

> her and I need help. So now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a

> chance (not just 5 min phone call), or cancel and start over. It's so

> freaking hard to find a therapist with any helpful awareness of bpd!

> > >

> > > As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and

> probably have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should I go meet her or

> should I call her and ask for another referral?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Run away!!! Run away!!!

Blessings,

Karla

>

> Hey all!  it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum.  The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO.  So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling. 

What do you guys think?

>

> She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a lot

with borderlines.  I thought this would be good because  I need someone who gets

how crazy the family system and nada can be.  She sounded nice, I've heard she's

smart. All good things.  But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following: 

>     That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at.  She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

>     I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts.  I could meet her once

and give it a try, or..

>

> It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic

but that she empathizes with the borderline.  See, I found the comments " the

person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the

need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.). 

My reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! "   I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

>

> I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful, but

my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful.  I want a safe place where I don't

have to defend myself.  I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom "  or " making allowances. "   Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me?  I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important?   It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that

her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help.  So

now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just  5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist

with any helpful awareness of bpd!

>

> As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably

have overreacted. Could you guys chime in?  Should I go meet her or should I

call her and ask for another referral?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

p.s. That therapist is an idiot.

Sorry to say it so strongly, but come on! " Hi. I wanted to let you know that I

have no clue about BPD, but wanted to let you know I intend to help nada

obliterate you all. I hope to give her all of the justification in the world!!

And I will make sure her victims will take all of her blame. Nada has a blank

check, you had better not say anything about it. Nada is the true victim here .

.. .even though people are nearly dying because of her . . . "

Somebody needs to take her license away.

>

> Hey all!  it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum.  The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO.  So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling. 

What do you guys think?

>

> She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a lot

with borderlines.  I thought this would be good because  I need someone who gets

how crazy the family system and nada can be.  She sounded nice, I've heard she's

smart. All good things.  But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following: 

>     That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes family

members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person they are

mad at.  She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to change and

how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

>     I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts.  I could meet her once

and give it a try, or..

>

> It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something sympathetic

but that she empathizes with the borderline.  See, I found the comments " the

person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and immediately felt the

need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand her struggle....etc.). 

My reaction to her comments about how they want to change was like " is she

kidding?! "   I asked her if she had awareness of borderlines who don't get into

therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't

know what I was referring to.

>

> I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful, but

my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful.  I want a safe place where I don't

have to defend myself.  I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom "  or " making allowances. "   Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me?  I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important?   It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that

her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help.  So

now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just  5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist

with any helpful awareness of bpd!

>

> As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and probably

have overreacted. Could you guys chime in?  Should I go meet her or should I

call her and ask for another referral?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

MP, good on you for cancelling! I was just about to write encouraging you and

read at the bottom that you did. I've had many warning moments with therapists

but kept seeing them to give them a chance or fearing that it was my problem or

resistance to therapy. But the longer you go the more damage they can do. In

hindsight I've realized that in the first session they almost always do reveal

the problem in their style that will become a bigger issue later.

I hope you find someone better - sounds like you've got great instincts. Woman

or man I don't think it matters as much as how good a therapist they are.

> > >

> > > Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum. The family

drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm worried someone is

going to get hurt or killed in my FOO. So I got off my butt and got a referral

and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm having an uhoh feeling.

What do you guys think?

> > >

> > > She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years, works a

lot with borderlines. I thought this would be good because I need someone who

gets how crazy the family system and nada can be. She sounded nice, I've heard

she's smart. All good things. But when I outlined my situation, i.e. mom is

borderline, need someone who gets that,she said the following:

> > > That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes

family members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the person

they are mad at. She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want to

change and how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> > > I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I could meet her

once and give it a try, or..

> > >

> > > It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something

sympathetic but that she empathizes with the borderline. See, I found the

comments " the person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and

immediately felt the need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I undwerstand

her struggle....etc.). My reaction to her comments about how they want to

change was like " is she kidding?! " I asked her if she had awareness of

borderlines who don't get into therapy or medaen mothers (yes, I know it was

cryptic), and she said she didn't know what I was referring to.

> > >

> > > I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very remorseful,

but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I want a safe place where I

don't have to defend myself. I need a place where it's not always about me

" understanding my mom " or " making allowances. " Isn't there anywhere someone can

stand up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an invalidating envirnment

and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow because I'm not bpd my

feelings are less important? It's not that " I'm mad at her " , it's that her

behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around her and I need help. So now

i'm wondering if I should go in and give her a chance (not just 5 min phone

call), or cancel and start over. It's so freaking hard to find a therapist with

any helpful awareness of bpd!

> > >

> > > As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and

probably have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should I go meet her or

should I call her and ask for another referral?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

More Private,

What you're going through with your nada, I don't think that I

have words for either. Just listening to your story makes me feel a pit in

my stomach, and an urge to crawl into a corner and whimper and hide. I'm

only guessing, but I think we feel that all the shit our nada's gave us,

that we deserved. We carry that horrible feeling that we deserve pain and

suffering for no reason, and nothing we do can make it go away.

I long time ago, I read about experiments on dogs. If the dog

was treated consistently nice, it turned out a friendly dog. If the dog was

consistently abused, it turned out mean and vicious. If the dog was

randomly abused and treated nicely, it just turned out really messed up

alternating without warning between kind, vicious, and randomly whimpeing in

a corner crapping itself.

On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 9:41 PM, More Private wrote:

>

>

> Yes, , I am grieving. But right now its grieving because I've lost my

> last vestige of trust in nada, and illusions about her. She spent a year

> trying to get my father to kill himself recently. She has been doing that to

> my brother recently. And she physically almost killed my father two weeks

> ago. I'm in shock I think. I knew nada tried to kill my spirit, and i knew

> the natural logical consequence of what she taught me about myself would

> have been suicide. But somehow stepping out to actually actively doing these

> things has shocked me to my core. I'm grieving yes. I'm also feeling

> something else I don't know how to express and I don't have words for.

>

> ________________________________

> From: Zaire <sinyud@... <sinyud%40gmail.com>>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Sun, June 20, 2010 8:24:41 PM

> Subject: Re: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a

> therapist, thoughts?

>

>

> Hi Charlie,

>

> I really understand what you mean when you say you understand your

> NADA too much. As for your therapist. I think I fall into the same trap I

> think you're falling into. I.e. we think therapists are all knowing all

> good and can make no mistakes. Therapists are people too, and I'm sure some

> of them have their own unresolved emotional issues which may make it hard

> for them to connect to others. Anywho, if your emotional needs are not

> being met by your , then they are not being met, end of story. Your

> emotional needs come first, end of story part 2.

>

> I can't tell for certain, but I think it sounds like you a grieving.

> For all the love you never had, and for the abuse, and for how it's

> affected you and made your so unhappy.

>

> May you find peace,

>

>

> On,

> Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 8:34 PM, More Private

<moreprivate20@...<moreprivate20%40yahoo.com>>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Charlotte, you wrote: " some therapists don't seem to comprehend the idea

> of

> > truly toxic people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when my

> > body tells me

> > someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to stay away

> > from them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk

> > into a landmine. "

> >

> > Thankyou!! Exactly! I was continuing to process this and have kept

> feeling

> > apprehensive about this upcoming therapy session since I let myself get

> > talked back into it. I was thinking yesterday along the lines of if I

> found

> > myself in an alley with a group of gang members, my response should not

> be

> > " well, you're overreacting, you shouldn't be so fearful. " which is how

> I've

> > been thinking about nada's physical violence, but " what the heck are you

> > doing hanging out in this neighborhood? Get out of here and don't come

> > back. " two weeks ago a family member had an experience that finally

> > validated the fact that I remain fearful for physical safety of myself

> and

> > my child when nada is present. In the sense of like really truly risk of

> > serious injury or even death. I hate it that someone was nearly killed

> for

> > me to be validated, but nonetheless I am standing a little taller and

> being

> > able to put away some of nada's training that I am the crazy one who runs

> > with

> > things.

> >

> > Charlotte also wrote: " Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance,

> > just in case. Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be

> > able to question yourself a little--it's what separates us from

> > being nadas. "

> >

> > Thanks, that is very kind to say. Because of course I'm wide awake to the

> > fact that it is totally silly to meet with this therapist to give her a

> > chance, when I've spent three days composing in my mind a defense of

> myself

> > because I alreayd feel on the defensive. Even the second phone call with

> her

> > I later realized what she said was that " her understanding of the

> disorder

> > could be part of my healing process because it would help me with lack of

> > acceptance and help me to understand " , and something about how " family

> > members want to vent. " She did it again! Even if she's speaking off the

> cuff

> > and if I let her I'd understand where she's coming from, she keeps saying

> > invalidating things. She has not once asked me a question.

> >

> > Was it who put it in an earlier email: " even if she seems ok when

> you

> > meet her, will you ever feel completely safe? " Those words stuck with me.

> > I've been so worried about being judgemental and dismissive to this

> > therapist, I've been ready to walk into a situation where I know I don't

> > feel safe.

> >

> > I'm not going to therapy because I need to " vent'! I can do that on WTO!

> I

> > also don't have a lack of acceptance about nada's disorder, and I

> actually

> > understand almost organically why nada behaves like she does. I was so

> > enmeshed with her I felt her feelings. She so totally destroyed my

> > personality, or attempted to, that I was starting to act like her at

> times

> > before I broke away from the family. I know why she does what she does! I

> > don't need to understand it better. That's the whole freaking problem! I

> > understand all too well her terrible feelings of loneliness and fear, her

> > terror of abandonment--that empathy kept me stuck. But I also hold her

> > responsible for herself, because against all odds, I did not turn out

> like

> > her, because I TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR MYSELF AND REFUSED TO ACCEPT MY

> OWN

> > BAD BEHAVIOR AND LOOKED FOR HELP UNTIL I FOUND IT SO I COULD BE BETTER.

> >

> > I know, maybe i'm not fair, maybe it is all a crazy illness and I just

> > didn't have the gene...

> >

> > What I'm struggling with now is accepting that she is so toxic and

> > dangerous that the LC I'm on with her is likely going to need to be

> > permanent. That she is as dangerous as I've alwasy feared, that I wasn't

> > making that up. And that I'm pretty much a well adjusted easy to live

> with

> > person when I have NC with her, but go on shame spirals etc when I go

> > anywhere near her. What I'm trying to accept is that there is no

> interaction

> > I have with her where she is not in some way abusive, even if she's

> smiling

> > at me. I'm trying to accept that I'm really losing/ have lost her, and

> that

> > that's a good thing and is okay. That it's time for me to trust my own

> > judgement and that it's okay to let nada be responsible for herself and

> reap

> > the natural consequences of her toxic behavior, i.e. losing relationship

> > with me. I'm pretty sure this therapist isn't going to accept that.

> >

> > As my friend put it, " At this point it doesn't matter why she does what

> she

> > does, it's effect on you is still the same. " I really just wanted therapy

> to

> > heal and grow and to get over the shock of nada almost killing my father

> two

> > weeks ago. But this therapist has no idea about that... Apparently I am

> mad

> > and wanted to vent and be pejorative about my poor remorseful bpd mother

> who

> > really wants to change so much and feels so bad about what she does. Hee

> > Hee.

> >

> > Anyway, I'm calling tonight to definitely cancel this appointment and to

> > trust my own judgement about goodness of fit with this therapist. And I'm

> > not going to let myself second guess myself again, or take any further

> phone

> > calls from her.

> >

> > the one good thing about it is after spending a few days practicing

> > standing up to her I suddenly feel a lot more convinced that it's not

> wrong

> > to be LC or even NC with nada with what's going on. I'm not being mean...

> > I'm just getting out of a bad neighborhood.

> >

> > Are male therapists any better?

> >

> > Oh God, I'm in so much pain. But, I'm not depressed, and I have so say

> > healthy grief pain is not so bad compared to depressed pain.

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: charlottehoneychurch

<charlottehoneychurch@...<charlottehoneychurch%40yahoo.com>

> <charlottehoneychurch%40yahoo.com>

> > >

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

>

> > Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 1:31:01 PM

> >

> > Subject: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist,

> > thoughts?

> >

> > OH, you're kidding! Your nada *is* a therapist (of a sort)? Goodness.

> Well,

> > there you go. MoreP, I had a similar experience with a therapist in the

> > Southern region of the US--at the time I was in a very abusive

> relationship

> > and feared for my physical safety. The therapist started our first

> session

> > trying to convince me that he wasn't being abusive because he didn't

> 'mean'

> > it that way--trying to get me to take responsibility for 'my share' of

> the

> > relationship. That approach makes sense, I guess, if the other person

> does

> > not mean you harm. But this therapist was asking me to dishonor my gut

> > reaction--that I was in emotional and physical *danger*. Therapists are

> > supposed to protect your physical safety, first and foremost. But SO used

> > was I to questioning myself, and having those in authority discount me,

> that

> > I, also went back for a second session. She tried to hear my point of

> view,

> > and she even read the books I lent her, but she just didn't

> > seem to *get* it. For whatever reason--their own PDs, their own biases, I

> > don't know--some therapists don't seem to comprehend the idea of truly

> toxic

> > people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when my body tells

> me

> > someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to stay away

> from

> > them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk into a

> > landmine. Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance, just in

> case.

> > Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be able to

> question

> > yourself a little--it's what separates us from being nadas.

> >

> > Best,

> > Charlie

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum. The

> > family drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm

> worried

> > someone is going to get hurt or killed in my FOO. So I got off my butt

> and

> > got a referral and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm

> > having an uhoh feeling. What do you guys think?

> > > >

> > > > She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years,

> > works a lot with borderlines. I thought this would be good because I need

> > someone who gets how crazy the family system and nada can be. She sounded

> > nice, I've heard she's smart. All good things. But when I outlined my

> > situation, i.e. mom is borderline, need someone who gets that,she said

> the

> > following:

> > > > That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes

> > family members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the

> person

> > they are mad at. She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want

> to

> > change and how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> > > > I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I could meet her

> > once and give it a try, or..

> > > >

> > > > It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something

> > sympathetic but that she empathizes with the borderline. See, I found the

> > comments " the person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and

> > immediately felt the need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I

> > undwerstand her struggle....etc.). My reaction to her comments about how

> > they want to change was like " is she kidding?! " I asked her if she had

> > awareness of borderlines who don't get into therapy or medaen mothers

> (yes,

> > I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't know what I was referring

> > to.

> > > >

> > > > I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very

> > remorseful, but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I want a

> safe

> > place where I don't have to defend myself. I need a place where it's not

> > always about me " understanding my mom " or " making allowances. " Isn't

> there

> > anywhere someone can stand up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an

> > invalidating envirnment and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow

> > because I'm not bpd my feelings are less important? It's not that " I'm

> mad

> > at her " , it's that her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around

> > her and I need help. So now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her

> a

> > chance (not just 5 min phone call), or cancel and start over. It's so

> > freaking hard to find a therapist with any helpful awareness of bpd!

> > > >

> > > > As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and

> > probably have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should I go meet her

> or

> > should I call her and ask for another referral?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

" randomly whimpeing in a corner crapping itself. "

This really made me giggle!! Actually studies (never very large) have shown

that comparing children of borderlines to other " dysfunctional " families like

substance abuse, plain old abuse, or even other PDs have a disproportionately

higher rate of mental health problems. In other words, BPD parents royally

screw up their kids.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 7:03:22 AM

Subject: Re: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist,

thoughts?

More Private,

What you're going through with your nada, I don't think that I

have words for either. Just listening to your story makes me feel a pit in

my stomach, and an urge to crawl into a corner and whimper and hide. I'm

only guessing, but I think we feel that all the shit our nada's gave us,

that we deserved. We carry that horrible feeling that we deserve pain and

suffering for no reason, and nothing we do can make it go away.

I long time ago, I read about experiments on dogs. If the dog

was treated consistently nice, it turned out a friendly dog. If the dog was

consistently abused, it turned out mean and vicious. If the dog was

randomly abused and treated nicely, it just turned out really messed up

alternating without warning between kind, vicious, and randomly whimpeing in

a corner crapping itself.

On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 9:41 PM, More Private wrote:

>

>

> Yes, , I am grieving. But right now its grieving because I've lost my

> last vestige of trust in nada, and illusions about her. She spent a year

> trying to get my father to kill himself recently. She has been doing that to

> my brother recently. And she physically almost killed my father two weeks

> ago. I'm in shock I think. I knew nada tried to kill my spirit, and i knew

> the natural logical consequence of what she taught me about myself would

> have been suicide. But somehow stepping out to actually actively doing these

> things has shocked me to my core. I'm grieving yes. I'm also feeling

> something else I don't know how to express and I don't have words for.

>

> ________________________________

> From: Zaire <sinyud@... <sinyud%40gmail.com>>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Sun, June 20, 2010 8:24:41 PM

> Subject: Re: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a

> therapist, thoughts?

>

>

> Hi Charlie,

>

> I really understand what you mean when you say you understand your

> NADA too much. As for your therapist. I think I fall into the same trap I

> think you're falling into. I.e. we think therapists are all knowing all

> good and can make no mistakes. Therapists are people too, and I'm sure some

> of them have their own unresolved emotional issues which may make it hard

> for them to connect to others. Anywho, if your emotional needs are not

> being met by your , then they are not being met, end of story. Your

> emotional needs come first, end of story part 2.

>

> I can't tell for certain, but I think it sounds like you a grieving.

> For all the love you never had, and for the abuse, and for how it's

> affected you and made your so unhappy.

>

> May you find peace,

>

>

> On,

> Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 8:34 PM, More Private

<moreprivate20@...<moreprivate20%40yahoo.com>>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Charlotte, you wrote: " some therapists don't seem to comprehend the idea

> of

> > truly toxic people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when my

> > body tells me

> > someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to stay away

> > from them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk

> > into a landmine. "

> >

> > Thankyou!! Exactly! I was continuing to process this and have kept

> feeling

> > apprehensive about this upcoming therapy session since I let myself get

> > talked back into it. I was thinking yesterday along the lines of if I

> found

> > myself in an alley with a group of gang members, my response should not

> be

> > " well, you're overreacting, you shouldn't be so fearful. " which is how

> I've

> > been thinking about nada's physical violence, but " what the heck are you

> > doing hanging out in this neighborhood? Get out of here and don't come

> > back. " two weeks ago a family member had an experience that finally

> > validated the fact that I remain fearful for physical safety of myself

> and

> > my child when nada is present. In the sense of like really truly risk of

> > serious injury or even death. I hate it that someone was nearly killed

> for

> > me to be validated, but nonetheless I am standing a little taller and

> being

> > able to put away some of nada's training that I am the crazy one who runs

> > with

> > things.

> >

> > Charlotte also wrote: " Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance,

> > just in case. Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be

> > able to question yourself a little--it's what separates us from

> > being nadas. "

> >

> > Thanks, that is very kind to say. Because of course I'm wide awake to the

> > fact that it is totally silly to meet with this therapist to give her a

> > chance, when I've spent three days composing in my mind a defense of

> myself

> > because I alreayd feel on the defensive. Even the second phone call with

> her

> > I later realized what she said was that " her understanding of the

> disorder

> > could be part of my healing process because it would help me with lack of

> > acceptance and help me to understand " , and something about how " family

> > members want to vent. " She did it again! Even if she's speaking off the

> cuff

> > and if I let her I'd understand where she's coming from, she keeps saying

> > invalidating things. She has not once asked me a question.

> >

> > Was it who put it in an earlier email: " even if she seems ok when

> you

> > meet her, will you ever feel completely safe? " Those words stuck with me.

> > I've been so worried about being judgemental and dismissive to this

> > therapist, I've been ready to walk into a situation where I know I don't

> > feel safe.

> >

> > I'm not going to therapy because I need to " vent'! I can do that on WTO!

> I

> > also don't have a lack of acceptance about nada's disorder, and I

> actually

> > understand almost organically why nada behaves like she does. I was so

> > enmeshed with her I felt her feelings. She so totally destroyed my

> > personality, or attempted to, that I was starting to act like her at

> times

> > before I broke away from the family. I know why she does what she does! I

> > don't need to understand it better. That's the whole freaking problem! I

> > understand all too well her terrible feelings of loneliness and fear, her

> > terror of abandonment--that empathy kept me stuck. But I also hold her

> > responsible for herself, because against all odds, I did not turn out

> like

> > her, because I TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR MYSELF AND REFUSED TO ACCEPT MY

> OWN

> > BAD BEHAVIOR AND LOOKED FOR HELP UNTIL I FOUND IT SO I COULD BE BETTER.

> >

> > I know, maybe i'm not fair, maybe it is all a crazy illness and I just

> > didn't have the gene...

> >

> > What I'm struggling with now is accepting that she is so toxic and

> > dangerous that the LC I'm on with her is likely going to need to be

> > permanent. That she is as dangerous as I've alwasy feared, that I wasn't

> > making that up. And that I'm pretty much a well adjusted easy to live

> with

> > person when I have NC with her, but go on shame spirals etc when I go

> > anywhere near her. What I'm trying to accept is that there is no

> interaction

> > I have with her where she is not in some way abusive, even if she's

> smiling

> > at me. I'm trying to accept that I'm really losing/ have lost her, and

> that

> > that's a good thing and is okay. That it's time for me to trust my own

> > judgement and that it's okay to let nada be responsible for herself and

> reap

> > the natural consequences of her toxic behavior, i.e. losing relationship

> > with me. I'm pretty sure this therapist isn't going to accept that.

> >

> > As my friend put it, " At this point it doesn't matter why she does what

> she

> > does, it's effect on you is still the same. " I really just wanted therapy

> to

> > heal and grow and to get over the shock of nada almost killing my father

> two

> > weeks ago. But this therapist has no idea about that... Apparently I am

> mad

> > and wanted to vent and be pejorative about my poor remorseful bpd mother

> who

> > really wants to change so much and feels so bad about what she does. Hee

> > Hee.

> >

> > Anyway, I'm calling tonight to definitely cancel this appointment and to

> > trust my own judgement about goodness of fit with this therapist. And I'm

> > not going to let myself second guess myself again, or take any further

> phone

> > calls from her.

> >

> > the one good thing about it is after spending a few days practicing

> > standing up to her I suddenly feel a lot more convinced that it's not

> wrong

> > to be LC or even NC with nada with what's going on. I'm not being mean...

> > I'm just getting out of a bad neighborhood.

> >

> > Are male therapists any better?

> >

> > Oh God, I'm in so much pain. But, I'm not depressed, and I have so say

> > healthy grief pain is not so bad compared to depressed pain.

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: charlottehoneychurch

<charlottehoneychurch@...<charlottehoneychurch%40yahoo.com>

> <charlottehoneychurch%40yahoo.com>

> > >

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

>

> > Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 1:31:01 PM

> >

> > Subject: Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist,

> > thoughts?

> >

> > OH, you're kidding! Your nada *is* a therapist (of a sort)? Goodness.

> Well,

> > there you go. MoreP, I had a similar experience with a therapist in the

> > Southern region of the US--at the time I was in a very abusive

> relationship

> > and feared for my physical safety. The therapist started our first

> session

> > trying to convince me that he wasn't being abusive because he didn't

> 'mean'

> > it that way--trying to get me to take responsibility for 'my share' of

> the

> > relationship. That approach makes sense, I guess, if the other person

> does

> > not mean you harm. But this therapist was asking me to dishonor my gut

> > reaction--that I was in emotional and physical *danger*. Therapists are

> > supposed to protect your physical safety, first and foremost. But SO used

> > was I to questioning myself, and having those in authority discount me,

> that

> > I, also went back for a second session. She tried to hear my point of

> view,

> > and she even read the books I lent her, but she just didn't

> > seem to *get* it. For whatever reason--their own PDs, their own biases, I

> > don't know--some therapists don't seem to comprehend the idea of truly

> toxic

> > people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when my body tells

> me

> > someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to stay away

> from

> > them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk into a

> > landmine. Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance, just in

> case.

> > Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be able to

> question

> > yourself a little--it's what separates us from being nadas.

> >

> > Best,

> > Charlie

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum. The

> > family drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm

> worried

> > someone is going to get hurt or killed in my FOO. So I got off my butt

> and

> > got a referral and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm

> > having an uhoh feeling. What do you guys think?

> > > >

> > > > She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years,

> > works a lot with borderlines. I thought this would be good because I need

> > someone who gets how crazy the family system and nada can be. She sounded

> > nice, I've heard she's smart. All good things. But when I outlined my

> > situation, i.e. mom is borderline, need someone who gets that,she said

> the

> > following:

> > > > That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes

> > family members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the

> person

> > they are mad at. She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want

> to

> > change and how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> > > > I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I could meet her

> > once and give it a try, or..

> > > >

> > > > It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something

> > sympathetic but that she empathizes with the borderline. See, I found the

> > comments " the person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and

> > immediately felt the need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I

> > undwerstand her struggle....etc.). My reaction to her comments about how

> > they want to change was like " is she kidding?! " I asked her if she had

> > awareness of borderlines who don't get into therapy or medaen mothers

> (yes,

> > I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't know what I was referring

> > to.

> > > >

> > > > I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very

> > remorseful, but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I want a

> safe

> > place where I don't have to defend myself. I need a place where it's not

> > always about me " understanding my mom " or " making allowances. " Isn't

> there

> > anywhere someone can stand up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an

> > invalidating envirnment and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow

> > because I'm not bpd my feelings are less important? It's not that " I'm

> mad

> > at her " , it's that her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around

> > her and I need help. So now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her

> a

> > chance (not just 5 min phone call), or cancel and start over. It's so

> > freaking hard to find a therapist with any helpful awareness of bpd!

> > > >

> > > > As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and

> > probably have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should I go meet her

> or

> > should I call her and ask for another referral?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I can see how this would be true, because in families with BPD there is this

sort of veil of *normalness* surrounding it. Obviously some people are more

extreme

in their abuse of the people in their families, but then there are the more mild

cases that are hard to pin down. For my whole life I thought: What is wrong

with her?

There is something *off* and I didn't know what it was. One shrink diagnosed

her

as bipolar and gave her lithium (which made her have bad side effects and plus

she

was not bipolar at all!)

The things that happened in our family were not major ...but maybe they were?

See, there

is this confusion that people grow up with. And so I can see how that would

cause mental

illness later on (like chronic depression, anxiety, dysthmia(?), panic attacks

etc).

I think one of the things is that there is no one around saying: It's not YOU

it's THEM(her, him, etc). And also, I think many teachers can have this and so

a kid gets doubly exposed.

I would even go so far to say that institutions have this.

~patricia

Re: I got a uhoh feeling about a therapist,

> > thoughts?

> >

> > OH, you're kidding! Your nada *is* a therapist (of a sort)? Goodness.

> Well,

> > there you go. MoreP, I had a similar experience with a therapist in the

> > Southern region of the US--at the time I was in a very abusive

> relationship

> > and feared for my physical safety. The therapist started our first

> session

> > trying to convince me that he wasn't being abusive because he didn't

> 'mean'

> > it that way--trying to get me to take responsibility for 'my share' of

> the

> > relationship. That approach makes sense, I guess, if the other person

> does

> > not mean you harm. But this therapist was asking me to dishonor my gut

> > reaction--that I was in emotional and physical *danger*. Therapists are

> > supposed to protect your physical safety, first and foremost. But SO used

> > was I to questioning myself, and having those in authority discount me,

> that

> > I, also went back for a second session. She tried to hear my point of

> view,

> > and she even read the books I lent her, but she just didn't

> > seem to *get* it. For whatever reason--their own PDs, their own biases, I

> > don't know--some therapists don't seem to comprehend the idea of truly

> toxic

> > people. I wish there wasn't a such thing either, but when my body tells

> me

> > someone is trying to destroy me, I have a God-given right to stay away

> from

> > them, just as clear as I don't have to jump off a bridge, or walk into a

> > landmine. Anyway--I also gave the therapist a second chance, just in

> case.

> > Don't knock yourself out too much, I'd say. It's good to be able to

> question

> > yourself a little--it's what separates us from being nadas.

> >

> > Best,

> > Charlie

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > Hey all! it's been a few weeks since I've been on this forum. The

> > family drama has been totally out of control, like to the point I'm

> worried

> > someone is going to get hurt or killed in my FOO. So I got off my butt

> and

> > got a referral and I just spoke to this psychologist today and now I'm

> > having an uhoh feeling. What do you guys think?

> > > >

> > > > She's a young psychologist trained in DBT, in practice for3 years,

> > works a lot with borderlines. I thought this would be good because I need

> > someone who gets how crazy the family system and nada can be. She sounded

> > nice, I've heard she's smart. All good things. But when I outlined my

> > situation, i.e. mom is borderline, need someone who gets that,she said

> the

> > following:

> > > > That she is very empathetic to the borderline and finds sometimes

> > family members don't like that because she can't be pejorative to the

> person

> > they are mad at. She says she is very aware of how much borderlines want

> to

> > change and how sorry they are for the way they hurt people they love.

> > > > I made an apptfor next week, but I'm having doubts. I could meet her

> > once and give it a try, or..

> > > >

> > > > It surprised me that the first thing she said was not something

> > sympathetic but that she empathizes with the borderline. See, I found the

> > comments " the person they are mad at " and " pejorative " invalidating and

> > immediately felt the need to defend myself (I'm not mad at her, I

> > undwerstand her struggle....etc.). My reaction to her comments about how

> > they want to change was like " is she kidding?! " I asked her if she had

> > awareness of borderlines who don't get into therapy or medaen mothers

> (yes,

> > I know it was cryptic), and she said she didn't know what I was referring

> > to.

> > > >

> > > > I accept that some borderlines want help and are probably very

> > remorseful, but my nada is scary as shit and not remorseful. I want a

> safe

> > place where I don't have to defend myself. I need a place where it's not

> > always about me " understanding my mom " or " making allowances. " Isn't

> there

> > anywhere someone can stand up for me? I've been horribly abused and in an

> > invalidating envirnment and should have turned out bpd myself but somehow

> > because I'm not bpd my feelings are less important? It's not that " I'm

> mad

> > at her " , it's that her behavior is increasingly dangerous to those around

> > her and I need help. So now i'm wondering if I should go in and give her

> a

> > chance (not just 5 min phone call), or cancel and start over. It's so

> > freaking hard to find a therapist with any helpful awareness of bpd!

> > > >

> > > > As you can see I've hada pretty strong emotional reaction here and

> > probably have overreacted. Could you guys chime in? Should I go meet her

> or

> > should I call her and ask for another referral?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >