Re: NC and waiting for the unpredictable time bomb...

[Guest guest]

- About telling your kids - I absolutely WOULD tell them that Nada is not a

" safe grownup. " If they're old enough to understand the " stranger danger "

training we all give our kids, they're old enough to know that Nada is a person

who is NOT a stranger, but who is also NOT a safe person. This takes a little

special handling. So here's what I told my son -

You are NEVER to get in the car with her unless Mom or Dad is there. You are

NEVER to go anywhere with her unless Mom or Dad is there. If she tells you that

Mom said to pick you up or take you someplace, you do not have to believe what

she tells you unless she gives you the family code word (you know, the safety

code word that any stranger would have to have in order for your kids to go with

them in the event you and their father are injured or detained and you need

somebody else to pick them up). Grandma has a sickness, and it's sad, but we

have to be careful around her because she doesn't always act like a safe

grownup. We try to be kind to her, but you are to do ONLY what Mom and Dad

tells you is OK when dealing with Grandma. Mom and Dad should always be there,

because we are grownups, and only grownups should have to answer Grandma's

questions or agree to do what she wants.

Oh, and by the way - part of this speech was that I also told my son who the

safe grownups are - my best friend, his other grandparents, etc. That way he

knew that there are some people who can be trusted immediately, without having

to think about it.

As the kids get older, they'll have a chance to observe her behavior (unless

you're totally NC), and you can give them more details and a better explanation.

The fact that your mom lives 3000 miles away is only marginally comforting. I

know my mom loves my son, and I don't think she would ever have intentionally

hurt him, but I can absolutely envision her showing up at his school, picking

him up " as a surprise " and taking him to her town for the weekend, or to Disney

World, or to Dairy Queen - without my permission, because she'd know that I

would never agree to let him spend unsupervised time with her. In her mind, my

refusal to let her have unrestricted access to my son is just crazy, I'm being

controlling, mean and vindictive, and she knows what's best for him - and she

has a RIGHT to him. So she would never accept that his parents would need to

know where he is, and would need to approve any trips or activities. That is

what makes her dangerous. And yes, I did specifically tell the school that she

was NOT to pick him up - ever - even if they got a note or a " phone call " from

me.

>

> I've been NC for almost a year. The last 6 months have been very peaceful,

and I've mostly been able to relax and stop looking over my shoulder every

minute, and have stopped panicking over every little decision. That is, until

now.

>

> Last week I found out that during the past year, nada has been calling my

friends and neighbors, trying to get information out of them (eeeewwww -

creepy!). She only calls the ones she has formed some sort of a relationship

with. She tells them that she doesn't know why I stopped speaking to her, and

that I'm withholding her grandchildren from her, and that her grandchildren have

written to her and told her that they are really sad about it. She asks my

friends to please try and make me get the kids to speak with her. She asks them

for contact info for other neighbors and the kids' teachers! She has pumped my

friend/neighbor (who I see every day) for all kinds of information about what I

am doing, what the kids are doing, what my husband is doing, etc... all under

the " poor-me-my-daughter-isn't-speaking-to-me " guise. I had no idea this was

going on (my friend/neighbor was completely unaware that nada is psychotic and

delusional and has ruined people's lives with false accusations, she just didn't

say anything to me because she knew I wasn't speaking to nada, and she didn't

want to upset me). Once I found out that nada was making all these calls, now I

have to do damage control.

>

> So I had a long talk with my neighbor yesterday and gave her a lot of

background, and a short education on BPD. She knew what my parents had done

last year to hurt my family, but was unaware that this was a repeated pattern.

So I gave her many, many, many more examples. She is very kind and sympathetic,

and has agreed that if nada calls her again, she will not answer the phone or

get her off the phone immediately. She felt like she was only telling my nada

" positive and benign things " about my family on the phone, and told nada she

would not get in the middle of anything because I'm her friend. She also

mentioned that nada, in one conversation, had informed her that she was thinking

of calling CPS (child protective services) to come in and check up on my family.

My friend told her " are you kidding? if you want to re-establish any kind of

relationship with your daughter, that is NOT the way to do it! " Well, DUH! So

far CPS has not shown up on my doorstep...

>

> But I know my nada! When she gets something on her brain, she doesn't stop

until she has convinced enough people and there is a huge path of destruction in

her wake. She is fishing. I've seen her do this many, many times - for

example, one time she got it on her brain that my uncle - her " golden " brother

- had been molesting his daughter. She started calling lots of people, and

asking lots of very pointed questions, so she could twist their answers to agree

with her delusional assumption. This went on until she decided to call the

police department in his home town " anonymously " . EVERYONE had advised her not

to do this (because we knew she just didn't have any concrete evidence), but she

did it anyway. Of course the police chief is good friends with my uncle and his

kids, and he figured out who she was, and told my uncle. So my uncle (the

lawyer) sued her for slander and won. My cousin has told me that there was

never any abuse, and that my nada is crazy. Needless to say, in nada's eyes,

they are all evil now.

>

> So now, I'm smelling the same old pattern - but with my kids. I can tell she

is sniffing for evidence that my kids are miserable and being abused. It is

really giving me anxiety attacks because I know what this witch is capable of,

and I'm not sure how to prepare for this. Of course I will put written notices

in my kids' school files that under no circumstances should any

staff/teacher/employee of the school give ANY information to my parents. And

under NO circumstances should my kids be released into their care (my parents

live 3000 miles away, so normally I would not think of this). But I'm wondering

what else to do? Should I tell my kids that under no circumstances are they

allowed to go anywhere with their grandparents? Maybe I'm feeling a bit

paranoid, but I've watched my nada go after people many times, and I'm really

scared that she would do something evil to my kids - anything from trying to get

them taken away from me, or just getting some type of visitation, to kidnapping.

She is just such an unpredictable time bomb that I never know what to expect

(even 3000 miles away and NC!).

>

> In the past year, I've gotten several voice messages from nada's friends, and

more recently 3 messages from her lawyer. I decided to ignore all of them

because I didn't want to give them the slightest bit of information that they

could take back to her and let her twist. One of my friends recently called me

because nada had gotten ahold of her on the phone, and my friend mentioned to

nada that she'd just received some photos from me. Of course my nada asked her

to " please forward them " . But my friend checked with me first. I told her

" PLEASE NOOOO!!! " My nada is the type of person who would look at 50 pictures

of my kids and find the one that was taken when they weren't smiling, and say

" look - she is so unhappy and miserable! I can see it in this picture! She

must be abused! " Then she would go and forward that one picture to everyone she

knows with the same sob story. And then call CPS.

>

> So far none of this has happened. So far being NC has been peaceful and good

for my health. But here I am again, sick with anxiety about what is going to

happen next. When the bomb is going to go off. I'm sure you can all relate to

this unpredictable behavior!

>

> Anyhow, thanks for letting me vent. Any strategies or suggestions for how to

protect myself and my kids are always appreciated. Thanks for being here!

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with the earlier posters that its better if your children know to not go

anywhere with grandma, and why.

And I think you've got at least two potential sources of protection because your

nada has acted out so badly in the past that it came to the attention of the

police (who now know that she is a demented troublemaker), and it got her sued

by your uncle for slander.

Is it possible for you to consult with this uncle on a professional basis, let

him know that your mother is now targeting you and that you fear she will follow

through on her threat to call CPS on you (RE what she told your neighbor

friend?)

It might also help to ask to speak with a representative of the police

department, give him or her the back-story (RE the anonymous phone call, the

false accusation and the slander lawsuit) and ask for advice on what to do RE

the stalking and the threat to call CPS.

The fact that your nada is so obviously and publicly out-of-control, vengeful,

hostile, obsessive AND has a history of it could actually work in your favor.

best of luck to you,

-Annie

>

> I've been NC for almost a year. The last 6 months have been very peaceful,

and I've mostly been able to relax and stop looking over my shoulder every

minute, and have stopped panicking over every little decision. That is, until

now.

>

> Last week I found out that during the past year, nada has been calling my

friends and neighbors, trying to get information out of them (eeeewwww -

creepy!). She only calls the ones she has formed some sort of a relationship

with. She tells them that she doesn't know why I stopped speaking to her, and

that I'm withholding her grandchildren from her, and that her grandchildren have

written to her and told her that they are really sad about it. She asks my

friends to please try and make me get the kids to speak with her. She asks them

for contact info for other neighbors and the kids' teachers! She has pumped my

friend/neighbor (who I see every day) for all kinds of information about what I

am doing, what the kids are doing, what my husband is doing, etc... all under

the " poor-me-my-daughter-isn't-speaking-to-me " guise. I had no idea this was

going on (my friend/neighbor was completely unaware that nada is psychotic and

delusional and has ruined people's lives with false accusations, she just didn't

say anything to me because she knew I wasn't speaking to nada, and she didn't

want to upset me). Once I found out that nada was making all these calls, now I

have to do damage control.

>

> So I had a long talk with my neighbor yesterday and gave her a lot of

background, and a short education on BPD. She knew what my parents had done

last year to hurt my family, but was unaware that this was a repeated pattern.

So I gave her many, many, many more examples. She is very kind and sympathetic,

and has agreed that if nada calls her again, she will not answer the phone or

get her off the phone immediately. She felt like she was only telling my nada

" positive and benign things " about my family on the phone, and told nada she

would not get in the middle of anything because I'm her friend. She also

mentioned that nada, in one conversation, had informed her that she was thinking

of calling CPS (child protective services) to come in and check up on my family.

My friend told her " are you kidding? if you want to re-establish any kind of

relationship with your daughter, that is NOT the way to do it! " Well, DUH! So

far CPS has not shown up on my doorstep...

>

> But I know my nada! When she gets something on her brain, she doesn't stop

until she has convinced enough people and there is a huge path of destruction in

her wake. She is fishing. I've seen her do this many, many times - for

example, one time she got it on her brain that my uncle - her " golden " brother

- had been molesting his daughter. She started calling lots of people, and

asking lots of very pointed questions, so she could twist their answers to agree

with her delusional assumption. This went on until she decided to call the

police department in his home town " anonymously " . EVERYONE had advised her not

to do this (because we knew she just didn't have any concrete evidence), but she

did it anyway. Of course the police chief is good friends with my uncle and his

kids, and he figured out who she was, and told my uncle. So my uncle (the

lawyer) sued her for slander and won. My cousin has told me that there was

never any abuse, and that my nada is crazy. Needless to say, in nada's eyes,

they are all evil now.

>

> So now, I'm smelling the same old pattern - but with my kids. I can tell she

is sniffing for evidence that my kids are miserable and being abused. It is

really giving me anxiety attacks because I know what this witch is capable of,

and I'm not sure how to prepare for this. Of course I will put written notices

in my kids' school files that under no circumstances should any

staff/teacher/employee of the school give ANY information to my parents. And

under NO circumstances should my kids be released into their care (my parents

live 3000 miles away, so normally I would not think of this). But I'm wondering

what else to do? Should I tell my kids that under no circumstances are they

allowed to go anywhere with their grandparents? Maybe I'm feeling a bit

paranoid, but I've watched my nada go after people many times, and I'm really

scared that she would do something evil to my kids - anything from trying to get

them taken away from me, or just getting some type of visitation, to kidnapping.

She is just such an unpredictable time bomb that I never know what to expect

(even 3000 miles away and NC!).

>

> In the past year, I've gotten several voice messages from nada's friends, and

more recently 3 messages from her lawyer. I decided to ignore all of them

because I didn't want to give them the slightest bit of information that they

could take back to her and let her twist. One of my friends recently called me

because nada had gotten ahold of her on the phone, and my friend mentioned to

nada that she'd just received some photos from me. Of course my nada asked her

to " please forward them " . But my friend checked with me first. I told her

" PLEASE NOOOO!!! " My nada is the type of person who would look at 50 pictures

of my kids and find the one that was taken when they weren't smiling, and say

" look - she is so unhappy and miserable! I can see it in this picture! She

must be abused! " Then she would go and forward that one picture to everyone she

knows with the same sob story. And then call CPS.

>

> So far none of this has happened. So far being NC has been peaceful and good

for my health. But here I am again, sick with anxiety about what is going to

happen next. When the bomb is going to go off. I'm sure you can all relate to

this unpredictable behavior!

>

> Anyhow, thanks for letting me vent. Any strategies or suggestions for how to

protect myself and my kids are always appreciated. Thanks for being here!

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

- THANK YOU so much for your response! I will have to use the same

" speech " with my kids about nada. What a great idea about a " code word " !! And

yes, I can also envision my parents flying out here and showing up at the kids

school for a surprise visit to take them someplace without my permission. I

live in a small town and this makes me want to tell everyone I know that if they

*ever* see my parents with my kids, to call me immediately! But it is so

difficult to bring this up with people.

Thanks so much for " getting it " .

-

>

> - About telling your kids - I absolutely WOULD tell them that Nada is not

a " safe grownup. " If they're old enough to understand the " stranger danger "

training we all give our kids, they're old enough to know that Nada is a person

who is NOT a stranger, but who is also NOT a safe person. This takes a little

special handling. So here's what I told my son -

>

> You are NEVER to get in the car with her unless Mom or Dad is there. You are

NEVER to go anywhere with her unless Mom or Dad is there. If she tells you that

Mom said to pick you up or take you someplace, you do not have to believe what

she tells you unless she gives you the family code word (you know, the safety

code word that any stranger would have to have in order for your kids to go with

them in the event you and their father are injured or detained and you need

somebody else to pick them up). Grandma has a sickness, and it's sad, but we

have to be careful around her because she doesn't always act like a safe

grownup. We try to be kind to her, but you are to do ONLY what Mom and Dad

tells you is OK when dealing with Grandma. Mom and Dad should always be there,

because we are grownups, and only grownups should have to answer Grandma's

questions or agree to do what she wants.

>

> Oh, and by the way - part of this speech was that I also told my son who the

safe grownups are - my best friend, his other grandparents, etc. That way he

knew that there are some people who can be trusted immediately, without having

to think about it.

>

> As the kids get older, they'll have a chance to observe her behavior (unless

you're totally NC), and you can give them more details and a better explanation.

>

> The fact that your mom lives 3000 miles away is only marginally comforting. I

know my mom loves my son, and I don't think she would ever have intentionally

hurt him, but I can absolutely envision her showing up at his school, picking

him up " as a surprise " and taking him to her town for the weekend, or to Disney

World, or to Dairy Queen - without my permission, because she'd know that I

would never agree to let him spend unsupervised time with her. In her mind, my

refusal to let her have unrestricted access to my son is just crazy, I'm being

controlling, mean and vindictive, and she knows what's best for him - and she

has a RIGHT to him. So she would never accept that his parents would need to

know where he is, and would need to approve any trips or activities. That is

what makes her dangerous. And yes, I did specifically tell the school that she

was NOT to pick him up - ever - even if they got a note or a " phone call " from

me.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I know what you mean about the anxiety and wondering when the time bomb will

go off. It actually makes me more anxious when nada isn't actively annoying me,

because then I don't know what she is thinking and I don't know what to expect.

>

Yes! This is the downside (for me) of being NC! When I've had the " good mom " ,

I've always been anxious and worried because I never knew what was going to set

her off. I spent so much time and energy strategizing and worrying about what

to do because she was on good behavior and I didn't want to mess that up. On

the other hand, now that I'm NC, I don't worry about every little move and

decision I make. But I also realize that there is a pissed-off " witch " sitting

out there (hopefully 3000 miles away), and I don't know what she is planning to

do next! So the anxiety is never really gone.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't... ugh!!

Thanks for understanding,

-

[Guest guest]

I agree!! Those waiting periods of silence are heartwrenching. I never knew

when the drama might excel or what it is she is conjuring up.

In a message dated 6/14/2010 12:33:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

downthebunnyhole64@... writes:

>

> I know what you mean about the anxiety and wondering when the time bomb

will go off. It actually makes me more anxious when nada isn't actively

annoying me, because then I don't know what she is thinking and I don't know

what to expect.

>

Yes! This is the downside (for me) of being NC! When I've had the " good

mom " , I've always been anxious and worried because I never knew what was

going to set her off. I spent so much time and energy strategizing and worrying

about what to do because she was on good behavior and I didn't want to

mess that up. On the other hand, now that I'm NC, I don't worry about every

little move and decision I make. But I also realize that there is a pissed-off

" witch " sitting out there (hopefully 3000 miles away), and I don't know

what she is planning to do next! So the anxiety is never really gone.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't... ugh!!

Thanks for understanding,

-

[Guest guest]

- Well, you're quite welcome. The code word thing is very useful -

remember, you have to practice this with small children so they'll remember that

there IS a code word, and they'll know how to listen for it. This is something

that families can have in case there's some kind of emergency, so that a

neighbor, social worker, cop, etc. can get the kids without the kids freaking

out about going with a stranger. " Your mom told me to come pick you up " should

NOT be enough to convince your kid to get into any stranger's car.

Once kids are older, you set up a code word for THEM to use if they get into a

situation where they don't feel safe (such as, their friends are drinking, doing

drugs, shoplifting, etc. and they want OUT of there but don't want the friends

to know they're 'chicken') - they call you and tell you they forgot their

medication, or they have a sore throat, or whatever the code phrase is - and you

go pick them up without questions, without causing a scene - then get down the

street and find out whether you need to call the police or go back to rescue

anybody else. They get out of the dangerous situation, and they don't have to

face social disaster in school come Monday. Very useful once they're old enough

to date or go to parties. Be sure their cellphone is charged and that they

remember the code phrase before they walk out the door. I know it sounds

paranoid, but boy, do I remember some situations that could have gone very bad,

fast, when I was that age.

This has nothing to do with BPD, it's just a parenting tool anybody can use.

> >

> > - About telling your kids - I absolutely WOULD tell them that Nada is

not a " safe grownup. " If they're old enough to understand the " stranger danger "

training we all give our kids, they're old enough to know that Nada is a person

who is NOT a stranger, but who is also NOT a safe person. This takes a little

special handling. So here's what I told my son -

> >

> > You are NEVER to get in the car with her unless Mom or Dad is there. You

are NEVER to go anywhere with her unless Mom or Dad is there. If she tells you

that Mom said to pick you up or take you someplace, you do not have to believe

what she tells you unless she gives you the family code word (you know, the

safety code word that any stranger would have to have in order for your kids to

go with them in the event you and their father are injured or detained and you

need somebody else to pick them up). Grandma has a sickness, and it's sad, but

we have to be careful around her because she doesn't always act like a safe

grownup. We try to be kind to her, but you are to do ONLY what Mom and Dad

tells you is OK when dealing with Grandma. Mom and Dad should always be there,

because we are grownups, and only grownups should have to answer Grandma's

questions or agree to do what she wants.

> >

> > Oh, and by the way - part of this speech was that I also told my son who the

safe grownups are - my best friend, his other grandparents, etc. That way he

knew that there are some people who can be trusted immediately, without having

to think about it.

> >

> > As the kids get older, they'll have a chance to observe her behavior (unless

you're totally NC), and you can give them more details and a better explanation.

> >

> > The fact that your mom lives 3000 miles away is only marginally comforting.

I know my mom loves my son, and I don't think she would ever have intentionally

hurt him, but I can absolutely envision her showing up at his school, picking

him up " as a surprise " and taking him to her town for the weekend, or to Disney

World, or to Dairy Queen - without my permission, because she'd know that I

would never agree to let him spend unsupervised time with her. In her mind, my

refusal to let her have unrestricted access to my son is just crazy, I'm being

controlling, mean and vindictive, and she knows what's best for him - and she

has a RIGHT to him. So she would never accept that his parents would need to

know where he is, and would need to approve any trips or activities. That is

what makes her dangerous. And yes, I did specifically tell the school that she

was NOT to pick him up - ever - even if they got a note or a " phone call " from

me.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

DD is 26, and she and her buddies still use a phone call system when

they are on first dates. They arrange for a friend to call at a

certain time with an " emergency. " . If the date is going well they

don't answer but if it's not they have an instant out.

We have used the code phrase too.

And a humorous story - when I was at the hospital having surgery nada

insisted on being there - she got a neighbor to drive her.

Then she insisted on coming into preop - you understand, I'm sure, she

was making it all about her.

So the nurses and I had a signal - I would scratch my nose - for when

I couldn't take any more nada. I scratched and they ran her off. :-)

So you see, codes aren't just for kids.

Sent from my blueberry.

On Jun 14, 2010, at 4:51 PM, " shirleyspawn "

wrote:

> - Well, you're quite welcome. The code word thing is very

> useful - remember, you have to practice this with small children so

> they'll remember that there IS a code word, and they'll know how to

> listen for it. This is something that families can have in case

> there's some kind of emergency, so that a neighbor, social worker,

> cop, etc. can get the kids without the kids freaking out about going

> with a stranger. " Your mom told me to come pick you up " should NOT

> be enough to convince your kid to get into any stranger's car.

>

> Once kids are older, you set up a code word for THEM to use if they

> get into a situation where they don't feel safe (such as, their

> friends are drinking, doing drugs, shoplifting, etc. and they want

> OUT of there but don't want the friends to know they're 'chicken') -

> they call you and tell you they forgot their medication, or they

> have a sore throat, or whatever the code phrase is - and you go pick

> them up without questions, without causing a scene - then get down

> the street and find out whether you need to call the police or go

> back to rescue anybody else. They get out of the dangerous

> situation, and they don't have to face social disaster in school

> come Monday. Very useful once they're old enough to date or go to

> parties. Be sure their cellphone is charged and that they remember

> the code phrase before they walk out the door. I know it sounds

> paranoid, but boy, do I remember some situations that could have

> gone very bad, fast, when I was that age.

>

> This has nothing to do with BPD, it's just a parenting tool anybody

> can use.

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > - About telling your kids - I absolutely WOULD tell them

> that Nada is not a " safe grownup. " If they're old enough to

> understand the " stranger danger " training we all give our kids,

> they're old enough to know that Nada is a person who is NOT a

> stranger, but who is also NOT a safe person. This takes a little

> special handling. So here's what I told my son -

> > >

> > > You are NEVER to get in the car with her unless Mom or Dad is

> there. You are NEVER to go anywhere with her unless Mom or Dad is

> there. If she tells you that Mom said to pick you up or take you

> someplace, you do not have to believe what she tells you unless she

> gives you the family code word (you know, the safety code word that

> any stranger would have to have in order for your kids to go with

> them in the event you and their father are injured or detained and

> you need somebody else to pick them up). Grandma has a sickness, and

> it's sad, but we have to be careful around her because she doesn't

> always act like a safe grownup. We try to be kind to her, but you

> are to do ONLY what Mom and Dad tells you is OK when dealing with

> Grandma. Mom and Dad should always be there, because we are

> grownups, and only grownups should have to answer Grandma's

> questions or agree to do what she wants.

> > >

> > > Oh, and by the way - part of this speech was that I also told my

> son who the safe grownups are - my best friend, his other

> grandparents, etc. That way he knew that there are some people who

> can be trusted immediately, without having to think about it.

> > >

> > > As the kids get older, they'll have a chance to observe her

> behavior (unless you're totally NC), and you can give them more

> details and a better explanation.

> > >

> > > The fact that your mom lives 3000 miles away is only marginally

> comforting. I know my mom loves my son, and I don't think she would

> ever have intentionally hurt him, but I can absolutely envision her

> showing up at his school, picking him up " as a surprise " and taking

> him to her town for the weekend, or to Disney World, or to Dairy

> Queen - without my permission, because she'd know that I would never

> agree to let him spend unsupervised time with her. In her mind, my

> refusal to let her have unrestricted access to my son is just crazy,

> I'm being controlling, mean and vindictive, and she knows what's

> best for him - and she has a RIGHT to him. So she would never accept

> that his parents would need to know where he is, and would need to

> approve any trips or activities. That is what makes her dangerous.

> And yes, I did specifically tell the school that she was NOT to pick

> him up - ever - even if they got a note or a " phone call " from me.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Interestingly my mom's father is BP so my parents warned me against him since I

was very young. I somehow always knew he wasn't a safe grown up. i was never to

be alone with him or eat or drink anything he gave me. How ironic that my BP

FADA taught me that about my mom's BP FADA???

anyway, it was very effective and I knew never to do anything he wanted me to no

matter what he said.

> > >

> > > - About telling your kids - I absolutely WOULD tell them that Nada is

not a " safe grownup. " If they're old enough to understand the " stranger danger "

training we all give our kids, they're old enough to know that Nada is a person

who is NOT a stranger, but who is also NOT a safe person. This takes a little

special handling. So here's what I told my son -

> > >

> > > You are NEVER to get in the car with her unless Mom or Dad is there. You

are NEVER to go anywhere with her unless Mom or Dad is there. If she tells you

that Mom said to pick you up or take you someplace, you do not have to believe

what she tells you unless she gives you the family code word (you know, the

safety code word that any stranger would have to have in order for your kids to

go with them in the event you and their father are injured or detained and you

need somebody else to pick them up). Grandma has a sickness, and it's sad, but

we have to be careful around her because she doesn't always act like a safe

grownup. We try to be kind to her, but you are to do ONLY what Mom and Dad

tells you is OK when dealing with Grandma. Mom and Dad should always be there,

because we are grownups, and only grownups should have to answer Grandma's

questions or agree to do what she wants.

> > >

> > > Oh, and by the way - part of this speech was that I also told my son who

the safe grownups are - my best friend, his other grandparents, etc. That way

he knew that there are some people who can be trusted immediately, without

having to think about it.

> > >

> > > As the kids get older, they'll have a chance to observe her behavior

(unless you're totally NC), and you can give them more details and a better

explanation.

> > >

> > > The fact that your mom lives 3000 miles away is only marginally

comforting. I know my mom loves my son, and I don't think she would ever have

intentionally hurt him, but I can absolutely envision her showing up at his

school, picking him up " as a surprise " and taking him to her town for the

weekend, or to Disney World, or to Dairy Queen - without my permission, because

she'd know that I would never agree to let him spend unsupervised time with her.

In her mind, my refusal to let her have unrestricted access to my son is just

crazy, I'm being controlling, mean and vindictive, and she knows what's best for

him - and she has a RIGHT to him. So she would never accept that his parents

would need to know where he is, and would need to approve any trips or

activities. That is what makes her dangerous. And yes, I did specifically tell

the school that she was NOT to pick him up - ever - even if they got a note or a

" phone call " from me.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I just wanted to say that it was brave of you to set your boundaries and I hope

that you enjoy your time as much as you can without the constant energy spent

worrying when you were in contact. I can relate to that feeling of it always

being there whatever you do.

My mum constantly jumps from being amazingly loving (to the point of being

really possessive of me) to having angry outbursts and saying the most hurtful

things. I can relate to the " good mum " times and the feeling of constantly being

on edge, the constant need for strategising etc and waiting for the snap. This

also leaves me riddled with guilt because I feel like she is so loving, why

can't I be nicer, why can't I happily give her the five minute cuddle she

requests as soon as I answer the door to her? All she needs is a hug?

I have just written a letter to my mum to say that I need her to get help with

her anger before I can continue our relationship. That was really hard and I

surprised even myself, but I just need the cycle to stop somehow. The anger that

this has inspired has been really hard to bear- my mobile has been bombarded

with angry, hurtful messages and I got about 7 letters back in response to mine.

This morning she has changed her tack as I haven't been responding to any of her

messages. Now she is writing to say that she has just needed love. She is by

herself too much. This is the never ending cycle. I want her to see that it

wouldn't matter how much love I showed her, I can't fix this. She is so lonely,

skinny from not eating and is like a little hurt child in so many ways which

makes it so hard for me to keep my resolve. She needs help and the sort of help

I can't give her. Yet I'm not sure how she can get it. I need to protect myself

and my family, yet I can't abandon her. Sigh.

Does anyone have any advice? I know it's ultimately up to me, but I would love

to hear some ideas.

Thanks,

Lynda

> >

> > I know what you mean about the anxiety and wondering when the time bomb will

go off. It actually makes me more anxious when nada isn't actively annoying me,

because then I don't know what she is thinking and I don't know what to expect.

> >

>

> Yes! This is the downside (for me) of being NC! When I've had the " good

mom " , I've always been anxious and worried because I never knew what was going

to set her off. I spent so much time and energy strategizing and worrying about

what to do because she was on good behavior and I didn't want to mess that up.

On the other hand, now that I'm NC, I don't worry about every little move and

decision I make. But I also realize that there is a pissed-off " witch " sitting

out there (hopefully 3000 miles away), and I don't know what she is planning to

do next! So the anxiety is never really gone.

>

> Damned if I do, damned if I don't... ugh!!

>

> Thanks for understanding,

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

- you are quite right, the codes and signals are all part of our prep for

" holiday lunch with Nada " as well, and my husband and I have used physical

signals many times when we were at his family's house. Good info on the phone

call trick - I think I'd seen that on TV before, but never knew to use it back

when I was dating. It's much nicer than excusing oneself to go to the ladies'

room, then escaping out the back door!

> > > >

> > > > - About telling your kids - I absolutely WOULD tell them

> > that Nada is not a " safe grownup. " If they're old enough to

> > understand the " stranger danger " training we all give our kids,

> > they're old enough to know that Nada is a person who is NOT a

> > stranger, but who is also NOT a safe person. This takes a little

> > special handling. So here's what I told my son -

> > > >

> > > > You are NEVER to get in the car with her unless Mom or Dad is

> > there. You are NEVER to go anywhere with her unless Mom or Dad is

> > there. If she tells you that Mom said to pick you up or take you

> > someplace, you do not have to believe what she tells you unless she

> > gives you the family code word (you know, the safety code word that

> > any stranger would have to have in order for your kids to go with

> > them in the event you and their father are injured or detained and

> > you need somebody else to pick them up). Grandma has a sickness, and

> > it's sad, but we have to be careful around her because she doesn't

> > always act like a safe grownup. We try to be kind to her, but you

> > are to do ONLY what Mom and Dad tells you is OK when dealing with

> > Grandma. Mom and Dad should always be there, because we are

> > grownups, and only grownups should have to answer Grandma's

> > questions or agree to do what she wants.

> > > >

> > > > Oh, and by the way - part of this speech was that I also told my

> > son who the safe grownups are - my best friend, his other

> > grandparents, etc. That way he knew that there are some people who

> > can be trusted immediately, without having to think about it.

> > > >

> > > > As the kids get older, they'll have a chance to observe her

> > behavior (unless you're totally NC), and you can give them more

> > details and a better explanation.

> > > >

> > > > The fact that your mom lives 3000 miles away is only marginally

> > comforting. I know my mom loves my son, and I don't think she would

> > ever have intentionally hurt him, but I can absolutely envision her

> > showing up at his school, picking him up " as a surprise " and taking

> > him to her town for the weekend, or to Disney World, or to Dairy

> > Queen - without my permission, because she'd know that I would never

> > agree to let him spend unsupervised time with her. In her mind, my

> > refusal to let her have unrestricted access to my son is just crazy,

> > I'm being controlling, mean and vindictive, and she knows what's

> > best for him - and she has a RIGHT to him. So she would never accept

> > that his parents would need to know where he is, and would need to

> > approve any trips or activities. That is what makes her dangerous.

> > And yes, I did specifically tell the school that she was NOT to pick

> > him up - ever - even if they got a note or a " phone call " from me.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey all,

I'm a long-time member of this group, and was really active several years ago

when I was still dealing on a regular basis with Nada. About 5 years ago, we

chose to go completely NC, and in retrospect, it was the absolute best decision

for our family. I credit the folks in this group with helping me through the

irrational guilt, fear, etc.

Let's face it: no one DOESN'T want to get along with their parents, despite what

Nada likes to accuse us of. ( " You've always hated meeeeeeee! " ) It's a

last-resort decision for most of us.

What I wanted to comment on was the aspect I like to call " collateral damage " in

making the NC decision. We actually went NC initially because she wanted to

" punish " me for setting a boundary and telling her that if she couldn't control

her mouth, we would simply remove ourselves from her presence. Initially, she

thought I just meant myself, and was " shocked and insulted " when I refused to

allow her access to my kids.

After a few years, she wanted to reconnect. I knew this through my brother, who

still has a relationship with her. She knew she could still " get to " me through

him, so she packaged up her guilt messages and delivered them via my brother.

We did reconnect after a few years, but it didn't go well, so she's back to

" punishing " me with silence again.

I think that this time, just like last time, she was counting on unfettered

access to my life through my brother, but this time I had to take a hard-line

stance. Therefore, not only did I not try to contact her to make my tearful

apologies (which is always what they want...apologies from us for doing nothing

other than calling them out on their behavior), I also didn't contact (or return

calls from) my brother.

My guess is this is driving her crazy, because she truly has no idea at all

about me, or her only grandchildren, and she can't get news through my brother,

either. I hated that I had to be so extreme, but so long as she has even

third-hand access to my life, I have no serenity. If my brother ever contacts

me to say he, too, went NC, then I'll be happy to return his call. However, my

brother and my stepdad both are dishrags who buy into her version of truth, so I

don't think that's likely.

Just wanted to share that for the poster who was feeling guilty about other

non-BP relatives who would also suffer if she decides to go NC with her nada.

It sucks, but my brother is a grown man, and he made his choice.

> > > > >

> > > > > - About telling your kids - I absolutely WOULD tell them

> > > that Nada is not a " safe grownup. " If they're old enough to

> > > understand the " stranger danger " training we all give our kids,

> > > they're old enough to know that Nada is a person who is NOT a

> > > stranger, but who is also NOT a safe person. This takes a little

> > > special handling. So here's what I told my son -

> > > > >

> > > > > You are NEVER to get in the car with her unless Mom or Dad is

> > > there. You are NEVER to go anywhere with her unless Mom or Dad is

> > > there. If she tells you that Mom said to pick you up or take you

> > > someplace, you do not have to believe what she tells you unless she

> > > gives you the family code word (you know, the safety code word that

> > > any stranger would have to have in order for your kids to go with

> > > them in the event you and their father are injured or detained and

> > > you need somebody else to pick them up). Grandma has a sickness, and

> > > it's sad, but we have to be careful around her because she doesn't

> > > always act like a safe grownup. We try to be kind to her, but you

> > > are to do ONLY what Mom and Dad tells you is OK when dealing with

> > > Grandma. Mom and Dad should always be there, because we are

> > > grownups, and only grownups should have to answer Grandma's

> > > questions or agree to do what she wants.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh, and by the way - part of this speech was that I also told my

> > > son who the safe grownups are - my best friend, his other

> > > grandparents, etc. That way he knew that there are some people who

> > > can be trusted immediately, without having to think about it.

> > > > >

> > > > > As the kids get older, they'll have a chance to observe her

> > > behavior (unless you're totally NC), and you can give them more

> > > details and a better explanation.

> > > > >

> > > > > The fact that your mom lives 3000 miles away is only marginally

> > > comforting. I know my mom loves my son, and I don't think she would

> > > ever have intentionally hurt him, but I can absolutely envision her

> > > showing up at his school, picking him up " as a surprise " and taking

> > > him to her town for the weekend, or to Disney World, or to Dairy

> > > Queen - without my permission, because she'd know that I would never

> > > agree to let him spend unsupervised time with her. In her mind, my

> > > refusal to let her have unrestricted access to my son is just crazy,

> > > I'm being controlling, mean and vindictive, and she knows what's

> > > best for him - and she has a RIGHT to him. So she would never accept

> > > that his parents would need to know where he is, and would need to

> > > approve any trips or activities. That is what makes her dangerous.

> > > And yes, I did specifically tell the school that she was NOT to pick

> > > him up - ever - even if they got a note or a " phone call " from me.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I think it sets a precedent that your mother has lost a slander case. If you can

get a hard copy or some documentation about that and just have it on hand it

will probably help when or if she does call CPS. I know they get a ton of false

calls. I know that you can also sue people for 'abuse of process' if they use

some kinds of legal proceedings out of spite; this is supposed to be

demotivating. It's a huge point in your favor she has a documented history of

making false accusations like this. It sounds like she is trying to vent and

actualize repressed trauma or something. It just shows how incredibly

destructive those folks can be. Hugs.

>

> I've been NC for almost a year. The last 6 months have been very peaceful,

and I've mostly been able to relax and stop looking over my shoulder every

minute, and have stopped panicking over every little decision. That is, until

now.

>

> Last week I found out that during the past year, nada has been calling my

friends and neighbors, trying to get information out of them (eeeewwww -

creepy!). She only calls the ones she has formed some sort of a relationship

with. She tells them that she doesn't know why I stopped speaking to her, and

that I'm withholding her grandchildren from her, and that her grandchildren have

written to her and told her that they are really sad about it. She asks my

friends to please try and make me get the kids to speak with her. She asks them

for contact info for other neighbors and the kids' teachers! She has pumped my

friend/neighbor (who I see every day) for all kinds of information about what I

am doing, what the kids are doing, what my husband is doing, etc... all under

the " poor-me-my-daughter-isn't-speaking-to-me " guise. I had no idea this was

going on (my friend/neighbor was completely unaware that nada is psychotic and

delusional and has ruined people's lives with false accusations, she just didn't

say anything to me because she knew I wasn't speaking to nada, and she didn't

want to upset me). Once I found out that nada was making all these calls, now I

have to do damage control.

>

> So I had a long talk with my neighbor yesterday and gave her a lot of

background, and a short education on BPD. She knew what my parents had done

last year to hurt my family, but was unaware that this was a repeated pattern.

So I gave her many, many, many more examples. She is very kind and sympathetic,

and has agreed that if nada calls her again, she will not answer the phone or

get her off the phone immediately. She felt like she was only telling my nada

" positive and benign things " about my family on the phone, and told nada she

would not get in the middle of anything because I'm her friend. She also

mentioned that nada, in one conversation, had informed her that she was thinking

of calling CPS (child protective services) to come in and check up on my family.

My friend told her " are you kidding? if you want to re-establish any kind of

relationship with your daughter, that is NOT the way to do it! " Well, DUH! So

far CPS has not shown up on my doorstep...

>

> But I know my nada! When she gets something on her brain, she doesn't stop

until she has convinced enough people and there is a huge path of destruction in

her wake. She is fishing. I've seen her do this many, many times - for

example, one time she got it on her brain that my uncle - her " golden " brother

- had been molesting his daughter. She started calling lots of people, and

asking lots of very pointed questions, so she could twist their answers to agree

with her delusional assumption. This went on until she decided to call the

police department in his home town " anonymously " . EVERYONE had advised her not

to do this (because we knew she just didn't have any concrete evidence), but she

did it anyway. Of course the police chief is good friends with my uncle and his

kids, and he figured out who she was, and told my uncle. So my uncle (the

lawyer) sued her for slander and won. My cousin has told me that there was

never any abuse, and that my nada is crazy. Needless to say, in nada's eyes,

they are all evil now.

>

> So now, I'm smelling the same old pattern - but with my kids. I can tell she

is sniffing for evidence that my kids are miserable and being abused. It is

really giving me anxiety attacks because I know what this witch is capable of,

and I'm not sure how to prepare for this. Of course I will put written notices

in my kids' school files that under no circumstances should any

staff/teacher/employee of the school give ANY information to my parents. And

under NO circumstances should my kids be released into their care (my parents

live 3000 miles away, so normally I would not think of this). But I'm wondering

what else to do? Should I tell my kids that under no circumstances are they

allowed to go anywhere with their grandparents? Maybe I'm feeling a bit

paranoid, but I've watched my nada go after people many times, and I'm really

scared that she would do something evil to my kids - anything from trying to get

them taken away from me, or just getting some type of visitation, to kidnapping.

She is just such an unpredictable time bomb that I never know what to expect

(even 3000 miles away and NC!).

>

> In the past year, I've gotten several voice messages from nada's friends, and

more recently 3 messages from her lawyer. I decided to ignore all of them

because I didn't want to give them the slightest bit of information that they

could take back to her and let her twist. One of my friends recently called me

because nada had gotten ahold of her on the phone, and my friend mentioned to

nada that she'd just received some photos from me. Of course my nada asked her

to " please forward them " . But my friend checked with me first. I told her

" PLEASE NOOOO!!! " My nada is the type of person who would look at 50 pictures

of my kids and find the one that was taken when they weren't smiling, and say

" look - she is so unhappy and miserable! I can see it in this picture! She

must be abused! " Then she would go and forward that one picture to everyone she

knows with the same sob story. And then call CPS.

>

> So far none of this has happened. So far being NC has been peaceful and good

for my health. But here I am again, sick with anxiety about what is going to

happen next. When the bomb is going to go off. I'm sure you can all relate to

this unpredictable behavior!

>

> Anyhow, thanks for letting me vent. Any strategies or suggestions for how to

protect myself and my kids are always appreciated. Thanks for being here!

>

> -

>