Re: I'm in alot of pain, trying to accept something that doesn't seem right

[Guest guest]

I wish someone had stood up for me like you are contemplating doing for your

nephew.

Have you considered involving Child Protective Services (or whatever the

equivalent is in your state)? If you do, you may also need to search your heart

to determine whether you are ready to be your nephew's primary caregiver. And

with family like that, you may need to move a long long way away to keep your

nephew protected.

I sincerely hope the best for you. If for whatever reason CPS is not an option,

see if you can at least once meet with your nephew and convey to him that you

understand his situation, *it's not him,* and you will be available if he calls.

Just telling him it's not his fault would be worth the world to him. Trust me. I

remember the two people who told me that, and that's what I hung onto in my

darkest hours hovering over the black hole of insanity.

Both my cents.... for what they're worth.

Tina

>

> I practice good boundaries with people that are emotionally unstable. Of

course, in the workplace, I sometimes maintain relationships I would not choose

to maintain otherwise, because I can't always choose the people I have to

interact with. However, with family, while I can't choose them, I have a choice

to put up boundaries with emotionally unstable family members.

>

> My mom in BPD, a real ringleader, and one of my sisters is sociopath with a

history of criminal behavior and being with abusers. The other sister is dating

a felon with 3 strikes, putting my nephew's life at stake. When all

communication is reduced to taking things out of context to extort money and

rationalize abuse, when I can't give agreement, the choice is clear. I have to

accept the situation, to accept that critical thinking is not on the table, and

create a safe boundary after having tried to communicate. However, when children

are involved, in this case, my teenage nephews, my choice to create a safe

boundary seems at their expense.

>

> I know how acceptance is not approval, but does that mean that I have to

accept the loss of my nephews being in my life, and let go of the fear for the

way they are being raised, because I have to put a boundary up because of my

mother's and my sisters' abuse? If I have no means to find a legal solution (go

to court to insist my no one can brainwash my nephews, or that they don't have

the right to associate with whomever they please??), I have to accept that what

happens to my nephews is out of my hands? I have to accept that my sisters will

represent me as a villain to them, and be able to claim that it's the boys'

choice to disassociate with me because I have the audacity to not give

agreement?

>

> I can't accept emotional abuse or change it, so I believe all I can do is walk

away with a prayer in my heart for those boys.

>

> Am I missing anything?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Charlene, no, I don't think you're missing anything, but.........I would add

that you might want to stay " lightly " in touch with your nephews, so that you

can " be there " for them when they are 18 and older. It is very, very hard on

children, to be raised by a bpd parent....as most of us know. I have two

nephews, from my bpd sister, and I am keeping doors open mainly because of those

boys.

andra

" Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it; boldness has genius, power and

magic in it. " Goethe

>

> Subject: I'm in alot of pain, trying to accept something

that doesn't seem right

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Tuesday, June 22, 2010, 8:41 PM

> I practice good boundaries with

> people that are emotionally unstable. Of course, in the

> workplace, I sometimes maintain relationships I would not

> choose to maintain otherwise, because I can't always choose

> the people I have to interact with. However, with family,

> while I can't choose them, I have a choice to put up

> boundaries with emotionally unstable family members.

>

> My mom in BPD, a real ringleader, and one of my sisters is

> sociopath with a history of criminal behavior and being with

> abusers. The other sister is dating a felon with 3 strikes,

> putting my nephew's life at stake. When all communication is

> reduced to taking things out of context to extort money and

> rationalize abuse, when I can't give agreement, the choice

> is clear. I have to accept the situation, to accept that

> critical thinking is not on the table, and create a safe

> boundary after having tried to communicate. However, when

> children are involved, in this case, my teenage nephews, my

> choice to create a safe boundary seems at their expense.

>

> I know how acceptance is not approval, but does that mean

> that I have to accept the loss of my nephews being in my

> life, and let go of the fear for the way they are being

> raised, because I have to put a boundary up because of my

> mother's and my sisters' abuse? If I have no means to find a

> legal solution (go to court to insist my no one can

> brainwash my nephews, or that they don't have the right to

> associate with whomever they please??), I have to accept

> that what happens to my nephews is out of my hands? I have

> to accept that my sisters will represent me as a villain to

> them, and be able to claim that it's the boys' choice to

> disassociate with me because I have the audacity to not give

> agreement?

>

> I can't accept emotional abuse or change it, so I believe

> all I can do is walk away with a prayer in my heart for

> those boys.

>

> Am I missing anything?

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

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> find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community

> and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for trying Tina,

Unfortunately, the 3 find agreement with each other and teach hate to the

nephews because I agree with my dad that the fathers support system is better

than being raised in the brainwashed environment that I know exists because I

was raised by my mother too.

Every time I tried to reach out, even to say that if they can't talk to me, I

understand and wouldn't want them in the middle, I was told that my nephews

choose to not associate with me and my dad, as if those bullies don't control

what their kids know.

As for child protective services,

1. My sister with the felon has successfully hidden the fact that she's still

with him, and last she bothered trying to filter information to me, she tried to

tell me she was back with a guy who she dumped years ago. Without access to my

nephews to verify, she creates a situation she controls.

2. The sister who is a sociopath has enough therapy to misrepresent doctors and

organizations, is quite adept at appearing like someone a judge can trust, but

all she is adept at is manipulation. She's been doing it since she was a child.

I am 7 years older than her, and she'd get goods on me as a teenager to control

me.

My mother taught us to hate my father, and guilted us into believing her actions

could all be justified because of victimization from my father.

This continues to happen. My nephews don't even want money from my dad at

Christmas to show him what a louse he is for helping the fathers with custody in

any way he can, one going as far as crying suicide if he was placed in his

father's custody. That child is now 17 and its probably too late. By the time my

dad and I figured out our non-BP issues, and how we gave agreement too long,

they are all but grown up and want nothing to do with us for having the audacity

to expose them to the idea that their mothers POV wouldn't hold up with one in a

group of a million people, unless someone had something to gain.

Its all about money and control, to manipulate my parents into giving them money

for the lawyers when they fail as parents, and their leases when they don't feel

like working for a living, knowing how to guilt them into it. And my mother is

hardly phased, becuase as long as she pays, she controls it.

And she inherited near a million a couple years ago, so all the sudden one of my

sisters comes out with a nuclear story about my dad now having raped her. After

years of my mother KNOWING the frauds my sister has committed, believes her,

which helps my mother's case of not paying my dad despite the 100s of 1000s of

dollars he's given in support after all these years.

My entire life was about going along to get along, and now by standin up to my

mother, I now I won't get a dime. They are happy I'm out of the picture.

And I know to anyone reading this that I could be the one with the problem, but

I have morality on my side. See, even if my dad actually DID do it, it still

doesn't exongerate my sister's actions through the years. These people don't get

it. No one would give them agreement to use victimization to manipulate as

opposed to heal.

And no matter what evidence I present, it's taken out of context to put it in

one that makes me the villain. And I can't believe my mother would sacrafice me,

but her selective memory when it comes to what she's done has been proven time

and again through the years. She clearly will never acknowledge that there's

evidence she needs help.

***********************

When I ask if there's anything else I can do, I believe my nephews are lost to

me, but something about setting healthy boundaries bothers me when I am

demonized to my nephews, when what I'm guilty of is not giving agreement

anymore.

I don't know who to talk to about it. Its horrible to be hated by my family

because I won't give agreement, and to be accused of starting it without any

recognition of the fact that the only thing that has changed is that I stopped

giving agreement. When I did, I tried to do with with love and compassion, but I

was screamed and yelled at and told what a fat ugly person who was never loved I

am.

I know its hard to believe when a father is accused of that, but that's what a

manipulator counts on. If you read about how many rapes were disproven when DNA

came out, you'll find a statistic of about 41% falsehood, most of which show a

motive for lying.

Yes, that's the statistics and you can look it up. People ARE willing to do this

when they are this ill, hence my fear for my nephews. And you know, if my sister

took a lie detector test and was interested in healing instead of dropping that

bomb exactly when my mom was considering reconciliation with my dad when she

inherited the fortune, I might be open to her having a false memory at least,

and if it was about healing and not manipulation... if critical thinking instead

of taking out of context was used in communications!!!

Its like the rest of the world doesn't get it. I wrote to Deepak Chopra asking

too but haven't heard anything. I can't be the only person in the world with

such scary family, with a ringleader who is so highly functioning, that its just

their word against mine to anyone who isn't aware of the manipulation of

context.

My sister left a voice mail, after harrassing me with incessant voice mails and

texts of insults and worse, and everything she actually took the time to state

clearly was something I agreed with, if it werent for the fact that its true in

a context that doesn't exist, one my mother either misrepresented to my sister,

or my sister misrepresented.

They don't even get it.

Anyhow, I'm hoping people can give advice here because, as it stands, my

departure from that group is a " good riddance " since it means they get my share

of the money and have no access to the nephews who have access to truths they

wouldn't want shared.

Anyhow... any advice would be appreciatied

> >

> > I practice good boundaries with people that are emotionally unstable. Of

course, in the workplace, I sometimes maintain relationships I would not choose

to maintain otherwise, because I can't always choose the people I have to

interact with. However, with family, while I can't choose them, I have a choice

to put up boundaries with emotionally unstable family members.

> >

> > My mom in BPD, a real ringleader, and one of my sisters is sociopath with a

history of criminal behavior and being with abusers. The other sister is dating

a felon with 3 strikes, putting my nephew's life at stake. When all

communication is reduced to taking things out of context to extort money and

rationalize abuse, when I can't give agreement, the choice is clear. I have to

accept the situation, to accept that critical thinking is not on the table, and

create a safe boundary after having tried to communicate. However, when children

are involved, in this case, my teenage nephews, my choice to create a safe

boundary seems at their expense.

> >

> > I know how acceptance is not approval, but does that mean that I have to

accept the loss of my nephews being in my life, and let go of the fear for the

way they are being raised, because I have to put a boundary up because of my

mother's and my sisters' abuse? If I have no means to find a legal solution (go

to court to insist my no one can brainwash my nephews, or that they don't have

the right to associate with whomever they please??), I have to accept that what

happens to my nephews is out of my hands? I have to accept that my sisters will

represent me as a villain to them, and be able to claim that it's the boys'

choice to disassociate with me because I have the audacity to not give

agreement?

> >

> > I can't accept emotional abuse or change it, so I believe all I can do is

walk away with a prayer in my heart for those boys.

> >

> > Am I missing anything?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Charlene - it sounds like they have you outnumbered, and the only thing you can

do for the boys is to have some kind of contact point - an email address or

phone number - that is " listed " so you can be found if they ever want to find

you. If you've told them that they can reach you and you're willing to talk to

them, they may remember that when they hit the point so many of us have reached

- where we need to re-assess everything we've been told, and we need to talk

with a person who knows our family history and ISN'T part of the crazy crew. It

may take years, but if you stay " findable " they may reach out to you eventually.

I've got kind of the same situation, but without the BP element - niece and

nephew are both grown and highly dysfunctional, and now niece has 3 kids (and

one on the way) who are being raised by illiterate hillbillies - not abuse in

the Child Protective Services definition, but their futures are going to be

stunted nonetheless. And since the parents and grandparents are all on the same

page, there's no way to even initiate a conversation about why and how to raise

the kids so they can get an education and be contributing members of society.

So the cycle continues, and I'm outnumbered - and by the time the kids are old

enough to question their upbringing, it will be far too late.

Other than that, it sounds as if you're better off without the rest of them.

Don't let the lost inheritance become a sticking point - so many people seem to

be hanging on because of potential inheritance, and I believe it has a crippling

effect on our ability to stand up and start walking away from the dysfunction.

The possibility of a monetary payoff isn't worth putting yourself in their

clutches for years of your life, nor is it worth producing stomach acid every

time you think about it, you know? Being broke sucks, but being Nada's little

plaything sucks worse.

> > >

> > > I practice good boundaries with people that are emotionally unstable. Of

course, in the workplace, I sometimes maintain relationships I would not choose

to maintain otherwise, because I can't always choose the people I have to

interact with. However, with family, while I can't choose them, I have a choice

to put up boundaries with emotionally unstable family members.

> > >

> > > My mom in BPD, a real ringleader, and one of my sisters is sociopath with

a history of criminal behavior and being with abusers. The other sister is

dating a felon with 3 strikes, putting my nephew's life at stake. When all

communication is reduced to taking things out of context to extort money and

rationalize abuse, when I can't give agreement, the choice is clear. I have to

accept the situation, to accept that critical thinking is not on the table, and

create a safe boundary after having tried to communicate. However, when children

are involved, in this case, my teenage nephews, my choice to create a safe

boundary seems at their expense.

> > >

> > > I know how acceptance is not approval, but does that mean that I have to

accept the loss of my nephews being in my life, and let go of the fear for the

way they are being raised, because I have to put a boundary up because of my

mother's and my sisters' abuse? If I have no means to find a legal solution (go

to court to insist my no one can brainwash my nephews, or that they don't have

the right to associate with whomever they please??), I have to accept that what

happens to my nephews is out of my hands? I have to accept that my sisters will

represent me as a villain to them, and be able to claim that it's the boys'

choice to disassociate with me because I have the audacity to not give

agreement?

> > >

> > > I can't accept emotional abuse or change it, so I believe all I can do is

walk away with a prayer in my heart for those boys.

> > >

> > > Am I missing anything?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

All I can say to you is I am where you are at, for the second time in my life,

first when my oldest brother married a bpd nightmare who then took the child to

FL and promptly got hooked on meth, filed false abuse complaints against him,

etc, etc, etc, and still to this day maintains custody. He just got his divorce

finalized after a nightmare of over ten years of his life, but the " mother "

still has his child. Now my youngest brother has married a similar type, who

lives here, and is becoming more irrational every day. She blatantly favors one

child over the other (her 'favorite' is the one that strongly resembles

her...shocking, no?) and always seems like she is about to fly off the handle

and beat the other one. No matter how much my parents (who both have their own

issues) do for them, she continues to demand more; more babysitting, more

conceding to whatever demands and whims she has, more financial support, etc etc

etc. Their is nothing she won't ask for, demand, or attempt to con out of

someone. On top of that she is, through her children, intentionally vandalizing

my parents house by not cleaning up after her toddlers AT ALL. My family are

held hostage by her because they are afraid how she will treat the two year old

if left alone with him. Not to mention the fact that the kids will grow up in

absolute filth.

I am convinced that when it comes to children whom you love but have no legal

control over it there is NO easy answer. For me it is one day at a time, and

prayer. I think it is similar to people who have a loved one in active

addiction, the powerlessness and the sense of not having any control, despite an

emotional investment that is too painful sometimes to even bear. I keep saying I

am going to go to Coda or Al-anon or Acoa just to feel like somewhere there are

people who understand. I really can't understand why there are not support

groups for people who have grandchildren, nieces, nephews, younger siblings,

etc, who are being abused somewhere in the area *above* where social services

can step in and intervene. I don't want my nephews to go through what it would

take to have them removed from their parents because from what I have seen the

bar for intervention is unbelievably low. I am so sorry, because I know how

excruciatingly painful it is to witness children being neglected and mistreated

and not be able to do a stinking thing about it but grieve and cry into your

pillow. Many, many hugs. I don't think you are missing anything, it's just that

in the gray area there are just no answers. I am not trying to sound defeatist,

I am trying to support that your sense of reality is dead-on accurate. You can

e-mail me if you ever need to vent. maybe we should start our own group. if

anyone knows of one that is out there to give emotional support to people who

love children who are mistreated, please post it.

>

> I practice good boundaries with people that are emotionally unstable. Of

course, in the workplace, I sometimes maintain relationships I would not choose

to maintain otherwise, because I can't always choose the people I have to

interact with. However, with family, while I can't choose them, I have a choice

to put up boundaries with emotionally unstable family members.

>

> My mom in BPD, a real ringleader, and one of my sisters is sociopath with a

history of criminal behavior and being with abusers. The other sister is dating

a felon with 3 strikes, putting my nephew's life at stake. When all

communication is reduced to taking things out of context to extort money and

rationalize abuse, when I can't give agreement, the choice is clear. I have to

accept the situation, to accept that critical thinking is not on the table, and

create a safe boundary after having tried to communicate. However, when children

are involved, in this case, my teenage nephews, my choice to create a safe

boundary seems at their expense.

>

> I know how acceptance is not approval, but does that mean that I have to

accept the loss of my nephews being in my life, and let go of the fear for the

way they are being raised, because I have to put a boundary up because of my

mother's and my sisters' abuse? If I have no means to find a legal solution (go

to court to insist my no one can brainwash my nephews, or that they don't have

the right to associate with whomever they please??), I have to accept that what

happens to my nephews is out of my hands? I have to accept that my sisters will

represent me as a villain to them, and be able to claim that it's the boys'

choice to disassociate with me because I have the audacity to not give

agreement?

>

> I can't accept emotional abuse or change it, so I believe all I can do is walk

away with a prayer in my heart for those boys.

>

> Am I missing anything?

>

[Guest guest]

Oh my gosh, I appreciate soooo very much that all of you who took the time to

share your stories, can relate. I needed to know, because if I thought I left

one stone unturned, I'd be stuck in this terrifying place.

If anyone else has stories to add, I'd love to hear them, so I'll keep this

string going.

And phine, I'm new to groups. I read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and

realized there's people out there who will relate and may have insight. I would

love to start a group like that. To be so villainized knowing children are the

only one's being hurt is one of the most difficult things I can imagine a person

could ever deal with.

I'll see how I can do it.

> >

> > I practice good boundaries with people that are emotionally unstable. Of

course, in the workplace, I sometimes maintain relationships I would not choose

to maintain otherwise, because I can't always choose the people I have to

interact with. However, with family, while I can't choose them, I have a choice

to put up boundaries with emotionally unstable family members.

> >

> > My mom in BPD, a real ringleader, and one of my sisters is sociopath with a

history of criminal behavior and being with abusers. The other sister is dating

a felon with 3 strikes, putting my nephew's life at stake. When all

communication is reduced to taking things out of context to extort money and

rationalize abuse, when I can't give agreement, the choice is clear. I have to

accept the situation, to accept that critical thinking is not on the table, and

create a safe boundary after having tried to communicate. However, when children

are involved, in this case, my teenage nephews, my choice to create a safe

boundary seems at their expense.

> >

> > I know how acceptance is not approval, but does that mean that I have to

accept the loss of my nephews being in my life, and let go of the fear for the

way they are being raised, because I have to put a boundary up because of my

mother's and my sisters' abuse? If I have no means to find a legal solution (go

to court to insist my no one can brainwash my nephews, or that they don't have

the right to associate with whomever they please??), I have to accept that what

happens to my nephews is out of my hands? I have to accept that my sisters will

represent me as a villain to them, and be able to claim that it's the boys'

choice to disassociate with me because I have the audacity to not give

agreement?

> >

> > I can't accept emotional abuse or change it, so I believe all I can do is

walk away with a prayer in my heart for those boys.

> >

> > Am I missing anything?

> >

>