Re: My friend is dating an emotionally abusive guy

[Guest guest]

My advice: quit trying to rescue everybody! She has to see it for herself.

I have a friend who was in a similar situation, only a guy friend with a BPD gf.

I just pointed out her behaviors when he asked for advice. He's slowly coming

out of the fog, I think, but it's had to be his choice.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink.

Tina

>

> One of my best friends is dating a very emotionally abusive guy and I don't

know how to get through to her! Here's the situation:

>

> She's in her early 20's and is fairly immature/inexperienced. This is her

first boyfriend so she is quite attached.

>

> He's my age (three years older than her) and comes from a similar household as

I do: his father emotionally and physically abused his mother and his mother has

finally moved out of the house and is proceeding with a divorce. While he was in

undergrad he finally stood up to his abusive father and took out loans. He went

NC for 4 years and it sounds like it was a healthy experience for him. For some

reason, since then he has started to worship his father and has been financially

supporting him. He even says things like " I would defend my father even if it

cost my life "

>

> I hope that I'm not projecting, but he seems to have some BPD traits, or at

least that of an emotional abuser. He gets mad at her randomly, constantly

accuses her of cheating on him, and goes into these manic psychotic rages that I

think we're all familiar with. During these rages he says horrible things to her

and attacks her character. He always says " no one else would ever date you and

put up with you " , and since he is her first bf I think she believes him. They

have been dating for 8 months and so far he's gone into " rages " four times.

After they're over he acts like nothing happened and he apologizes for his

" anger issues " and then it's over.

>

> I have tried to keep my opinion of him to myself and be a supportive friend

and good listener. During these " rages " I tell my friend that it isn't normal

and the things he puts her through are horrible. During his last rage I talked

to her for hours and flat out said that he was emotionally abusive and wasn't

going to change unless he got help. She agreed at the time but he apologized so

she forgave him and ignored any of their issues.

>

> She constantly defends him by saying he has a lot of baggage and comes from a

broken home, but then I tell her that I do too. I've told her that I'm in a ton

of therapy to change myself, while he isn't doing anything to break the cycle.

>

> He went into a rage over the weekend because she forgot to tell him she went

out to dinner with a girlfriend and a male friend. He told her no one's ever

hurt him as much as she does by lying like this and it makes him worried that

she's cheating on him. She actually agrees with him that she shouldn't " lie " and

should always remember to tell him who she's with and I keep telling her that's

not normal for him to always have to know where she is and who she's with.

>

> During our talk I said, " what did you say the last time this happened? " and

she said, " I said if this ever happened again I'd break up with him. " And I told

her I just wanted to remind her of that. We haven't spoken since this

conversation although I know that he has apologized again and she's forgiven

him.

>

> It's SO frustrating to see her voluntarily put herself in this situation

although she'll acknowledge that he's abusive. I really don't know what to do-

it's becoming hard to even stay friends with her because I don't like the person

she's becoming. She's becoming a very weak, self-doubting person who completely

idolizes him and can't talk about anything else. I would love any advice!!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My advice? Let her make her own mistakes and follow her own path, no matter how

painful it is to watch. Desperately trying to fix her and " make " her see that

she's in an abusive relationship is hurting you and hurting her.

The more you try to convince her, the more you are solidifying her resolve to

stay with him. When she talks to you, she is forced to repeat all the arguments

FOR staying with him. Which makes those arguments seem right. If you really

want her to be healthy, I would suggest you step out of the middle of this one.

It sounds like you are giving enough support for her to stay in this abusive

relationship--why should she leave, if she always has you to pick up the pieces

and give her infinite amounts of time and care? Your well-intentioned focus is

keeping her strong enough to stay with him.

My advice? You may need to walk away from this one. You can't fix her, and it

sounds like it is trigger central for you. There doesn't seem to be any

boundaries with your time and energy, which is not good for a child of a BPD.

With something like this, it would be difficult for any non to stay out of the

old patterns. You are rescuing someone who doesn't want to be rescued, trying

to talk sense into someone who isn't quite sane (at least in terms of her

relatinoship with the abuser) and desperatly trying to convince someone to

change and be healthy. Any of that sound familiar? Sigh.

Put your energy to better use--take care of yourself and trust her to live

through her journey. Painful? Yes. Healthier? Absolutely. Consider hanging

up the super-cape. You both deserve better.

Blessings--

Karla

>

> One of my best friends is dating a very emotionally abusive guy and I don't

know how to get through to her! Here's the situation:

>

> She's in her early 20's and is fairly immature/inexperienced. This is her

first boyfriend so she is quite attached.

>

> He's my age (three years older than her) and comes from a similar household as

I do: his father emotionally and physically abused his mother and his mother has

finally moved out of the house and is proceeding with a divorce. While he was in

undergrad he finally stood up to his abusive father and took out loans. He went

NC for 4 years and it sounds like it was a healthy experience for him. For some

reason, since then he has started to worship his father and has been financially

supporting him. He even says things like " I would defend my father even if it

cost my life "

>

> I hope that I'm not projecting, but he seems to have some BPD traits, or at

least that of an emotional abuser. He gets mad at her randomly, constantly

accuses her of cheating on him, and goes into these manic psychotic rages that I

think we're all familiar with. During these rages he says horrible things to her

and attacks her character. He always says " no one else would ever date you and

put up with you " , and since he is her first bf I think she believes him. They

have been dating for 8 months and so far he's gone into " rages " four times.

After they're over he acts like nothing happened and he apologizes for his

" anger issues " and then it's over.

>

> I have tried to keep my opinion of him to myself and be a supportive friend

and good listener. During these " rages " I tell my friend that it isn't normal

and the things he puts her through are horrible. During his last rage I talked

to her for hours and flat out said that he was emotionally abusive and wasn't

going to change unless he got help. She agreed at the time but he apologized so

she forgave him and ignored any of their issues.

>

> She constantly defends him by saying he has a lot of baggage and comes from a

broken home, but then I tell her that I do too. I've told her that I'm in a ton

of therapy to change myself, while he isn't doing anything to break the cycle.

>

> He went into a rage over the weekend because she forgot to tell him she went

out to dinner with a girlfriend and a male friend. He told her no one's ever

hurt him as much as she does by lying like this and it makes him worried that

she's cheating on him. She actually agrees with him that she shouldn't " lie " and

should always remember to tell him who she's with and I keep telling her that's

not normal for him to always have to know where she is and who she's with.

>

> During our talk I said, " what did you say the last time this happened? " and

she said, " I said if this ever happened again I'd break up with him. " And I told

her I just wanted to remind her of that. We haven't spoken since this

conversation although I know that he has apologized again and she's forgiven

him.

>

> It's SO frustrating to see her voluntarily put herself in this situation

although she'll acknowledge that he's abusive. I really don't know what to do-

it's becoming hard to even stay friends with her because I don't like the person

she's becoming. She's becoming a very weak, self-doubting person who completely

idolizes him and can't talk about anything else. I would love any advice!!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Detach! Just let her know that you have given her good advice and you will not

continue to listen to the same song and dance over and over. When she starts

talking about it, just say " Second verse, same as the first " and change the

subject. She will most likely quit coming to you with it when you don't give

her the attention she needs. Remind her that she has chosen this so she needs to

quit complaining about it or change it. You know he is trying to get her

isolated, that's first step in the control he's gonna need to keep her. I hate

to tell you to let her become more isolated, but you simply cannot do anything

about it that I know of. You said you are in therapy, run it by your therapist

and see what he/she says. Let us know.

>

> One of my best friends is dating a very emotionally abusive guy and I don't

know how to get through to her! Here's the situation:

>

> She's in her early 20's and is fairly immature/inexperienced. This is her

first boyfriend so she is quite attached.

>

> He's my age (three years older than her) and comes from a similar household as

I do: his father emotionally and physically abused his mother and his mother has

finally moved out of the house and is proceeding with a divorce. While he was in

undergrad he finally stood up to his abusive father and took out loans. He went

NC for 4 years and it sounds like it was a healthy experience for him. For some

reason, since then he has started to worship his father and has been financially

supporting him. He even says things like " I would defend my father even if it

cost my life "

>

> I hope that I'm not projecting, but he seems to have some BPD traits, or at

least that of an emotional abuser. He gets mad at her randomly, constantly

accuses her of cheating on him, and goes into these manic psychotic rages that I

think we're all familiar with. During these rages he says horrible things to her

and attacks her character. He always says " no one else would ever date you and

put up with you " , and since he is her first bf I think she believes him. They

have been dating for 8 months and so far he's gone into " rages " four times.

After they're over he acts like nothing happened and he apologizes for his

" anger issues " and then it's over.

>

> I have tried to keep my opinion of him to myself and be a supportive friend

and good listener. During these " rages " I tell my friend that it isn't normal

and the things he puts her through are horrible. During his last rage I talked

to her for hours and flat out said that he was emotionally abusive and wasn't

going to change unless he got help. She agreed at the time but he apologized so

she forgave him and ignored any of their issues.

>

> She constantly defends him by saying he has a lot of baggage and comes from a

broken home, but then I tell her that I do too. I've told her that I'm in a ton

of therapy to change myself, while he isn't doing anything to break the cycle.

>

> He went into a rage over the weekend because she forgot to tell him she went

out to dinner with a girlfriend and a male friend. He told her no one's ever

hurt him as much as she does by lying like this and it makes him worried that

she's cheating on him. She actually agrees with him that she shouldn't " lie " and

should always remember to tell him who she's with and I keep telling her that's

not normal for him to always have to know where she is and who she's with.

>

> During our talk I said, " what did you say the last time this happened? " and

she said, " I said if this ever happened again I'd break up with him. " And I told

her I just wanted to remind her of that. We haven't spoken since this

conversation although I know that he has apologized again and she's forgiven

him.

>

> It's SO frustrating to see her voluntarily put herself in this situation

although she'll acknowledge that he's abusive. I really don't know what to do-

it's becoming hard to even stay friends with her because I don't like the person

she's becoming. She's becoming a very weak, self-doubting person who completely

idolizes him and can't talk about anything else. I would love any advice!!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Others have given you good advice, but I ll underscore it. Trying to

rescue your friend from herself is a pretty good indication that you are

a KO. But sadly , you can t. He does sound like he is on the spectrum

of physical abuse. But sadly, women in that situation do not easily

respond to warnings and help.

You are responsible only for your own choices, not hers. I understand

that you want to prevent your friend from having pain, but that may not

be possible.

I would suggest reading Co Dependant No More, by Melody Beattie. It

might give you some good insights into your own motivations. You can t

make her heal. You can choose healing for you.

May we all heal.

Doug

>

> One of my best friends is dating a very emotionally abusive guy and I

don't know how to get through to her! Here's the situation:

>

> She's in her early 20's and is fairly immature/inexperienced. This is

her first boyfriend so she is quite attached.

>

> He's my age (three years older than her) and comes from a similar

household as I do: his father emotionally and physically abused his

mother and his mother has finally moved out of the house and is

proceeding with a divorce. While he was in undergrad he finally stood up

to his abusive father and took out loans. He went NC for 4 years and it

sounds like it was a healthy experience for him. For some reason, since

then he has started to worship his father and has been financially

supporting him. He even says things like " I would defend my father even

if it cost my life "

>

> I hope that I'm not projecting, but he seems to have some BPD traits,

or at least that of an emotional abuser. He gets mad at her randomly,

constantly accuses her of cheating on him, and goes into these manic

psychotic rages that I think we're all familiar with. During these rages

he says horrible things to her and attacks her character. He always says

" no one else would ever date you and put up with you " , and since he is

her first bf I think she believes him. They have been dating for 8

months and so far he's gone into " rages " four times. After they're over

he acts like nothing happened and he apologizes for his " anger issues "

and then it's over.

>

> I have tried to keep my opinion of him to myself and be a supportive

friend and good listener. During these " rages " I tell my friend that it

isn't normal and the things he puts her through are horrible. During his

last rage I talked to her for hours and flat out said that he was

emotionally abusive and wasn't going to change unless he got help. She

agreed at the time but he apologized so she forgave him and ignored any

of their issues.

>

> She constantly defends him by saying he has a lot of baggage and comes

from a broken home, but then I tell her that I do too. I've told her

that I'm in a ton of therapy to change myself, while he isn't doing

anything to break the cycle.

>

> He went into a rage over the weekend because she forgot to tell him

she went out to dinner with a girlfriend and a male friend. He told her

no one's ever hurt him as much as she does by lying like this and it

makes him worried that she's cheating on him. She actually agrees with

him that she shouldn't " lie " and should always remember to tell him who

she's with and I keep telling her that's not normal for him to always

have to know where she is and who she's with.

>

> During our talk I said, " what did you say the last time this

happened? " and she said, " I said if this ever happened again I'd break

up with him. " And I told her I just wanted to remind her of that. We

haven't spoken since this conversation although I know that he has

apologized again and she's forgiven him.

>

> It's SO frustrating to see her voluntarily put herself in this

situation although she'll acknowledge that he's abusive. I really don't

know what to do- it's becoming hard to even stay friends with her

because I don't like the person she's becoming. She's becoming a very

weak, self-doubting person who completely idolizes him and can't talk

about anything else. I would love any advice!!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow,

Thanks everyone for great advice- although it was not at all what I was

expecting! Karla, thanks for your insights about how my " supportive " behavior

ends up being detrimental. I will keep that in mind when it seems painful to not

help my friend. And Doug, thanks for the book recommendation. I hadn't put

together that this is codependent behavior, as silly as that sounds! I'm hopeful

that the book will help me fix more fleas but I would really like that process

to end at some point!

Thanks everyone,

> >

> > One of my best friends is dating a very emotionally abusive guy and I

> don't know how to get through to her! Here's the situation:

> >

> > She's in her early 20's and is fairly immature/inexperienced. This is

> her first boyfriend so she is quite attached.

> >

> > He's my age (three years older than her) and comes from a similar

> household as I do: his father emotionally and physically abused his

> mother and his mother has finally moved out of the house and is

> proceeding with a divorce. While he was in undergrad he finally stood up

> to his abusive father and took out loans. He went NC for 4 years and it

> sounds like it was a healthy experience for him. For some reason, since

> then he has started to worship his father and has been financially

> supporting him. He even says things like " I would defend my father even

> if it cost my life "

> >

> > I hope that I'm not projecting, but he seems to have some BPD traits,

> or at least that of an emotional abuser. He gets mad at her randomly,

> constantly accuses her of cheating on him, and goes into these manic

> psychotic rages that I think we're all familiar with. During these rages

> he says horrible things to her and attacks her character. He always says

> " no one else would ever date you and put up with you " , and since he is

> her first bf I think she believes him. They have been dating for 8

> months and so far he's gone into " rages " four times. After they're over

> he acts like nothing happened and he apologizes for his " anger issues "

> and then it's over.

> >

> > I have tried to keep my opinion of him to myself and be a supportive

> friend and good listener. During these " rages " I tell my friend that it

> isn't normal and the things he puts her through are horrible. During his

> last rage I talked to her for hours and flat out said that he was

> emotionally abusive and wasn't going to change unless he got help. She

> agreed at the time but he apologized so she forgave him and ignored any

> of their issues.

> >

> > She constantly defends him by saying he has a lot of baggage and comes

> from a broken home, but then I tell her that I do too. I've told her

> that I'm in a ton of therapy to change myself, while he isn't doing

> anything to break the cycle.

> >

> > He went into a rage over the weekend because she forgot to tell him

> she went out to dinner with a girlfriend and a male friend. He told her

> no one's ever hurt him as much as she does by lying like this and it

> makes him worried that she's cheating on him. She actually agrees with

> him that she shouldn't " lie " and should always remember to tell him who

> she's with and I keep telling her that's not normal for him to always

> have to know where she is and who she's with.

> >

> > During our talk I said, " what did you say the last time this

> happened? " and she said, " I said if this ever happened again I'd break

> up with him. " And I told her I just wanted to remind her of that. We

> haven't spoken since this conversation although I know that he has

> apologized again and she's forgiven him.

> >

> > It's SO frustrating to see her voluntarily put herself in this

> situation although she'll acknowledge that he's abusive. I really don't

> know what to do- it's becoming hard to even stay friends with her

> because I don't like the person she's becoming. She's becoming a very

> weak, self-doubting person who completely idolizes him and can't talk

> about anything else. I would love any advice!!

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You don't sound silly at all. You sound like a KO. Just like the rest of us.

Know you are in good company.

Blessings,

Karla

> > >

> > > One of my best friends is dating a very emotionally abusive guy and I

> > don't know how to get through to her! Here's the situation:

> > >

> > > She's in her early 20's and is fairly immature/inexperienced. This is

> > her first boyfriend so she is quite attached.

> > >

> > > He's my age (three years older than her) and comes from a similar

> > household as I do: his father emotionally and physically abused his

> > mother and his mother has finally moved out of the house and is

> > proceeding with a divorce. While he was in undergrad he finally stood up

> > to his abusive father and took out loans. He went NC for 4 years and it

> > sounds like it was a healthy experience for him. For some reason, since

> > then he has started to worship his father and has been financially

> > supporting him. He even says things like " I would defend my father even

> > if it cost my life "

> > >

> > > I hope that I'm not projecting, but he seems to have some BPD traits,

> > or at least that of an emotional abuser. He gets mad at her randomly,

> > constantly accuses her of cheating on him, and goes into these manic

> > psychotic rages that I think we're all familiar with. During these rages

> > he says horrible things to her and attacks her character. He always says

> > " no one else would ever date you and put up with you " , and since he is

> > her first bf I think she believes him. They have been dating for 8

> > months and so far he's gone into " rages " four times. After they're over

> > he acts like nothing happened and he apologizes for his " anger issues "

> > and then it's over.

> > >

> > > I have tried to keep my opinion of him to myself and be a supportive

> > friend and good listener. During these " rages " I tell my friend that it

> > isn't normal and the things he puts her through are horrible. During his

> > last rage I talked to her for hours and flat out said that he was

> > emotionally abusive and wasn't going to change unless he got help. She

> > agreed at the time but he apologized so she forgave him and ignored any

> > of their issues.

> > >

> > > She constantly defends him by saying he has a lot of baggage and comes

> > from a broken home, but then I tell her that I do too. I've told her

> > that I'm in a ton of therapy to change myself, while he isn't doing

> > anything to break the cycle.

> > >

> > > He went into a rage over the weekend because she forgot to tell him

> > she went out to dinner with a girlfriend and a male friend. He told her

> > no one's ever hurt him as much as she does by lying like this and it

> > makes him worried that she's cheating on him. She actually agrees with

> > him that she shouldn't " lie " and should always remember to tell him who

> > she's with and I keep telling her that's not normal for him to always

> > have to know where she is and who she's with.

> > >

> > > During our talk I said, " what did you say the last time this

> > happened? " and she said, " I said if this ever happened again I'd break

> > up with him. " And I told her I just wanted to remind her of that. We

> > haven't spoken since this conversation although I know that he has

> > apologized again and she's forgiven him.

> > >

> > > It's SO frustrating to see her voluntarily put herself in this

> > situation although she'll acknowledge that he's abusive. I really don't

> > know what to do- it's becoming hard to even stay friends with her

> > because I don't like the person she's becoming. She's becoming a very

> > weak, self-doubting person who completely idolizes him and can't talk

> > about anything else. I would love any advice!!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Your friend only sees what she wants to see and believes what she wants to

believe. We all do that and especially those of us who come from dysfunctional

families. She is making excuses for him and the more you try to get her to see

the light, the more she will defend him and they will only get closer. I agree

with the person who said you can lead a horse to water but you can't make

her/him drink. I just went through a similar experience with a girlfriend of

mine and we're in our 50s! She should know better and deep down did, but 'he's

gorgeous " she would say. " The sex is good " she would say and then add " nobody's

perfect and if you're going to wait for a perfect man, it's not gonna happen. "

This one was an alcoholic who drove over to her house the last time they got

together drunk, got into a car accident (got away with being drunk the stupid

cop) and couldn't find her house he was so plastered and didn't get there to

bring dinner to them 'til 9 PM! Then brought a six pack in a cooler and a

bottle of whiskey in with him and put it between them to watch TV asking HER to

hand him another beer which was closer to her after the others closest to him

was gone. She said " I think you had enough " and he told her HE'D tell HER when

he'd had enough. He promptly fell asleep also. He was unemployed; working

under the table doing construction and got fired from that job because he left

his boss' broken down truck on the road and took off with the other guys for a

liquid lunch. When the cop wrote out a ticket for 'abandoned vehicle' and fined

the boss $350, the boss not only fired her bf but he had a process server come

to his apartment and serve him with the ticket. At the time when she told me

about it all she said the boss was a jerk and how awful he was to her bf! No,

not the same type of abuse, but abuse is abuse.

She broke up with him and then went back!

Finally yesterday he broke up with her for good. She called me to rant about it

and tell me how he was a liar and a jerk.

I think you should let your friend just go through this with her abusive bf even

though it kills you to see her go through this and you know she shouldn't be

with this abuser and no one should even though when asked I told my friend about

her alcoholic and that she should end it since she doesn't drink, but she didn't

listen to me. Your friend will only turn on you and defend him bringing them

closer until she gets fed up with it or he breaks it off with her for some

reason or other. You can only be there then, listen and pick up the pieces.

[Guest guest]

- In the post below, Marilyn ends by saying, " until she gets fed up with

it or he breaks it off with her for some reason or other. You can only be there

then, listen and pick up the pieces. " - While you can't make her see the light,

once she sees it you'll have a chance to be a supportive friend. Even if the

guy's a complete jerk, it's her first big romance and breaking it off will hurt.

The image of long nights alone and no more dates EVER will haunt her until she

gets back on her feet. If you could be there to provide a " running buddy " -

movies, concerts, anything that will get her out of the house - it will make the

breakup trauma period shorter and less painful. The faster she gets out of

this, the better. But there will be work for her to do, rebuilding her

self-confidence and re-establishing a social circle full of healthier people.

>

> Your friend only sees what she wants to see and believes what she wants to

believe. We all do that and especially those of us who come from dysfunctional

families. She is making excuses for him and the more you try to get her to see

the light, the more she will defend him and they will only get closer. I agree

with the person who said you can lead a horse to water but you can't make

her/him drink. I just went through a similar experience with a girlfriend of

mine and we're in our 50s! She should know better and deep down did, but 'he's

gorgeous " she would say. " The sex is good " she would say and then add " nobody's

perfect and if you're going to wait for a perfect man, it's not gonna happen. "

This one was an alcoholic who drove over to her house the last time they got

together drunk, got into a car accident (got away with being drunk the stupid

cop) and couldn't find her house he was so plastered and didn't get there to

bring dinner to them 'til 9 PM! Then brought a six pack in a cooler and a

bottle of whiskey in with him and put it between them to watch TV asking HER to

hand him another beer which was closer to her after the others closest to him

was gone. She said " I think you had enough " and he told her HE'D tell HER when

he'd had enough. He promptly fell asleep also. He was unemployed; working

under the table doing construction and got fired from that job because he left

his boss' broken down truck on the road and took off with the other guys for a

liquid lunch. When the cop wrote out a ticket for 'abandoned vehicle' and fined

the boss $350, the boss not only fired her bf but he had a process server come

to his apartment and serve him with the ticket. At the time when she told me

about it all she said the boss was a jerk and how awful he was to her bf! No,

not the same type of abuse, but abuse is abuse.

>

> She broke up with him and then went back!

>

> Finally yesterday he broke up with her for good. She called me to rant about

it and tell me how he was a liar and a jerk.

>

> I think you should let your friend just go through this with her abusive bf

even though it kills you to see her go through this and you know she shouldn't

be with this abuser and no one should even though when asked I told my friend

about her alcoholic and that she should end it since she doesn't drink, but she

didn't listen to me. Your friend will only turn on you and defend him bringing

them closer until she gets fed up with it or he breaks it off with her for some

reason or other. You can only be there then, listen and pick up the pieces.

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's clear they are acting out childhood roles. He tried to break free but it

was too psychologically unbearable, so he relented and compartmentalized. She is

modeling the abused partner side of the dichotomy and there is nothing you can

do about it. She needs help for codependency issues. They are attracted to each

other because they 'feel like' each other's childhood. She could do this for

ten, twenty, or fifty more years. You can only 'love her anyway' and encourage

her to vent on a professional therapist because if you spend too much time

listening to her you may unintentionally enable her to stay by giving her a

release valve. At some point you may have to make the topic of his emotional

abuse of her off-limits. I have recently had to do this with my mother venting

on me about her situation with my SIL and brother. I realize it demotivates her

to change when she is able to dump it all on me. It's a hard reality to face.

Hugs.

>

> One of my best friends is dating a very emotionally abusive guy and I don't

know how to get through to her! Here's the situation:

>

> She's in her early 20's and is fairly immature/inexperienced. This is her

first boyfriend so she is quite attached.

>

> He's my age (three years older than her) and comes from a similar household as

I do: his father emotionally and physically abused his mother and his mother has

finally moved out of the house and is proceeding with a divorce. While he was in

undergrad he finally stood up to his abusive father and took out loans. He went

NC for 4 years and it sounds like it was a healthy experience for him. For some

reason, since then he has started to worship his father and has been financially

supporting him. He even says things like " I would defend my father even if it

cost my life "

>

> I hope that I'm not projecting, but he seems to have some BPD traits, or at

least that of an emotional abuser. He gets mad at her randomly, constantly

accuses her of cheating on him, and goes into these manic psychotic rages that I

think we're all familiar with. During these rages he says horrible things to her

and attacks her character. He always says " no one else would ever date you and

put up with you " , and since he is her first bf I think she believes him. They

have been dating for 8 months and so far he's gone into " rages " four times.

After they're over he acts like nothing happened and he apologizes for his

" anger issues " and then it's over.

>

> I have tried to keep my opinion of him to myself and be a supportive friend

and good listener. During these " rages " I tell my friend that it isn't normal

and the things he puts her through are horrible. During his last rage I talked

to her for hours and flat out said that he was emotionally abusive and wasn't

going to change unless he got help. She agreed at the time but he apologized so

she forgave him and ignored any of their issues.

>

> She constantly defends him by saying he has a lot of baggage and comes from a

broken home, but then I tell her that I do too. I've told her that I'm in a ton

of therapy to change myself, while he isn't doing anything to break the cycle.

>

> He went into a rage over the weekend because she forgot to tell him she went

out to dinner with a girlfriend and a male friend. He told her no one's ever

hurt him as much as she does by lying like this and it makes him worried that

she's cheating on him. She actually agrees with him that she shouldn't " lie " and

should always remember to tell him who she's with and I keep telling her that's

not normal for him to always have to know where she is and who she's with.

>

> During our talk I said, " what did you say the last time this happened? " and

she said, " I said if this ever happened again I'd break up with him. " And I told

her I just wanted to remind her of that. We haven't spoken since this

conversation although I know that he has apologized again and she's forgiven

him.

>

> It's SO frustrating to see her voluntarily put herself in this situation

although she'll acknowledge that he's abusive. I really don't know what to do-

it's becoming hard to even stay friends with her because I don't like the person

she's becoming. She's becoming a very weak, self-doubting person who completely

idolizes him and can't talk about anything else. I would love any advice!!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i'm afraid she will only learn on her own time table, when she has had enuf.. if

ever.. unfortunately we cannot protect the ones we care about from these things,

only support and warn them as you have been doing.  it is a hard, hard thing to

watch but your caring will go a long way in teaching her what a good

relationship is.. stick with her if you can but don't expect miracles.  these

things sometimes take a long time.

ann

Subject: My friend is dating an emotionally abusive guy

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, June 22, 2010, 5:40 PM

 

One of my best friends is dating a very emotionally abusive guy and I

don't know how to get through to her! Here's the situation:

She's in her early 20's and is fairly immature/inexperienced. This is her first

boyfriend so she is quite attached.

He's my age (three years older than her) and comes from a similar household as I

do: his father emotionally and physically abused his mother and his mother has

finally moved out of the house and is proceeding with a divorce. While he was in

undergrad he finally stood up to his abusive father and took out loans. He went

NC for 4 years and it sounds like it was a healthy experience for him. For some

reason, since then he has started to worship his father and has been financially

supporting him. He even says things like " I would defend my father even if it

cost my life "

I hope that I'm not projecting, but he seems to have some BPD traits, or at

least that of an emotional abuser. He gets mad at her randomly, constantly

accuses her of cheating on him, and goes into these manic psychotic rages that I

think we're all familiar with. During these rages he says horrible things to her

and attacks her character. He always says " no one else would ever date you and

put up with you " , and since he is her first bf I think she believes him. They

have been dating for 8 months and so far he's gone into " rages " four times.

After they're over he acts like nothing happened and he apologizes for his

" anger issues " and then it's over.

I have tried to keep my opinion of him to myself and be a supportive friend and

good listener. During these " rages " I tell my friend that it isn't normal and

the things he puts her through are horrible. During his last rage I talked to

her for hours and flat out said that he was emotionally abusive and wasn't going

to change unless he got help. She agreed at the time but he apologized so she

forgave him and ignored any of their issues.

She constantly defends him by saying he has a lot of baggage and comes from a

broken home, but then I tell her that I do too. I've told her that I'm in a ton

of therapy to change myself, while he isn't doing anything to break the cycle.

He went into a rage over the weekend because she forgot to tell him she went out

to dinner with a girlfriend and a male friend. He told her no one's ever hurt

him as much as she does by lying like this and it makes him worried that she's

cheating on him. She actually agrees with him that she shouldn't " lie " and

should always remember to tell him who she's with and I keep telling her that's

not normal for him to always have to know where she is and who she's with.

During our talk I said, " what did you say the last time this happened? " and she

said, " I said if this ever happened again I'd break up with him. " And I told her

I just wanted to remind her of that. We haven't spoken since this conversation

although I know that he has apologized again and she's forgiven him.

It's SO frustrating to see her voluntarily put herself in this situation

although she'll acknowledge that he's abusive. I really don't know what to do-

it's becoming hard to even stay friends with her because I don't like the person

she's becoming. She's becoming a very weak, self-doubting person who completely

idolizes him and can't talk about anything else. I would love any advice!!

[Guest guest]

Wow, these responses have been quite an eye-opener, thank you everyone! Doug, I

received " Codependent no more " and have an extra therapy session tomorrow to

discuss these issues. Many of you pointed out that allowing her to vent enables

her to not change- that's a great point that I had never considered. I have

encouraged her to see someone (for her " anxiety " ) and she just started, so I

hope she makes progress during therapy.

One last question about the issue- I agree with all of you that I can be a

supportive friend in other respects but can't let her vent about her bf. I'm not

sure how to bring this up since most of our conversations are about him. (I know

that this is a line from Codependent No More so forgive me)- but I truly know

that aside from her therapist I'm the only one she talks to about these issues.

He has forbidden her to discuss anything about him to anyone so she feels that

if she only tells me (one person), it's not that bad. Now that she has a

therapist it really doesn't bother me to take myself out of the equation but I

know that it will be v hurtful to her. I guess I'm just asking how much detail I

should go into about why we can't talk about it anymore...

Thanks so much everyone!

>

>

> Subject: My friend is dating an emotionally abusive guy

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Tuesday, June 22, 2010, 5:40 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>  

>

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>

>

>

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>

> One of my best friends is dating a very emotionally abusive guy and I

don't know how to get through to her! Here's the situation:

>

>

>

> She's in her early 20's and is fairly immature/inexperienced. This is her

first boyfriend so she is quite attached.

>

>

>

> He's my age (three years older than her) and comes from a similar household as

I do: his father emotionally and physically abused his mother and his mother has

finally moved out of the house and is proceeding with a divorce. While he was in

undergrad he finally stood up to his abusive father and took out loans. He went

NC for 4 years and it sounds like it was a healthy experience for him. For some

reason, since then he has started to worship his father and has been financially

supporting him. He even says things like " I would defend my father even if it

cost my life "

>

>

>

> I hope that I'm not projecting, but he seems to have some BPD traits, or at

least that of an emotional abuser. He gets mad at her randomly, constantly

accuses her of cheating on him, and goes into these manic psychotic rages that I

think we're all familiar with. During these rages he says horrible things to her

and attacks her character. He always says " no one else would ever date you and

put up with you " , and since he is her first bf I think she believes him. They

have been dating for 8 months and so far he's gone into " rages " four times.

After they're over he acts like nothing happened and he apologizes for his

" anger issues " and then it's over.

>

>

>

> I have tried to keep my opinion of him to myself and be a supportive friend

and good listener. During these " rages " I tell my friend that it isn't normal

and the things he puts her through are horrible. During his last rage I talked

to her for hours and flat out said that he was emotionally abusive and wasn't

going to change unless he got help. She agreed at the time but he apologized so

she forgave him and ignored any of their issues.

>

>

>

> She constantly defends him by saying he has a lot of baggage and comes from a

broken home, but then I tell her that I do too. I've told her that I'm in a ton

of therapy to change myself, while he isn't doing anything to break the cycle.

>

>

>

> He went into a rage over the weekend because she forgot to tell him she went

out to dinner with a girlfriend and a male friend. He told her no one's ever

hurt him as much as she does by lying like this and it makes him worried that

she's cheating on him. She actually agrees with him that she shouldn't " lie " and

should always remember to tell him who she's with and I keep telling her that's

not normal for him to always have to know where she is and who she's with.

>

>

>

> During our talk I said, " what did you say the last time this happened? " and

she said, " I said if this ever happened again I'd break up with him. " And I told

her I just wanted to remind her of that. We haven't spoken since this

conversation although I know that he has apologized again and she's forgiven

him.

>

>

>

> It's SO frustrating to see her voluntarily put herself in this situation

although she'll acknowledge that he's abusive. I really don't know what to do-

it's becoming hard to even stay friends with her because I don't like the person

she's becoming. She's becoming a very weak, self-doubting person who completely

idolizes him and can't talk about anything else. I would love any advice!!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

I would keep it simple and short. No details necessary. In fact, the more

details you give, the harder it is going to be for you to do the right thing.

Giving details means inviting lengthy discussions which you don't need--they

will only serve to start the process all over again!

So . . .how about something like: " Friend (fill in her name, of course), I

value you so much, and I want to make sure our relationship stays as healthy and

strong as possible. I've done a lot of thinking, and I can no longer engage in

conversations about your situation with (fill in the bf's name). Now that you

are in therapy, these conversations may become counter-productive. Please know

I care about you very much, and I'm here for you in any other way. "

Little sales tip I picked up in my job: A " Kiss Kick Sandwich. " Say something

nice, let her know you are drawing a boundary, and then finish with something

nice. It helps a lot for both of you.

Blessings,

Karla

> >

> > From: cocochanel1005 <cocochanel1005@>

> > Subject: My friend is dating an emotionally abusive guy

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > Date: Tuesday, June 22, 2010, 5:40 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

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> > One of my best friends is dating a very emotionally abusive guy and I

don't know how to get through to her! Here's the situation:

> >

> >

> >

> > She's in her early 20's and is fairly immature/inexperienced. This is her

first boyfriend so she is quite attached.

> >

> >

> >

> > He's my age (three years older than her) and comes from a similar household

as I do: his father emotionally and physically abused his mother and his mother

has finally moved out of the house and is proceeding with a divorce. While he

was in undergrad he finally stood up to his abusive father and took out loans.

He went NC for 4 years and it sounds like it was a healthy experience for him.

For some reason, since then he has started to worship his father and has been

financially supporting him. He even says things like " I would defend my father

even if it cost my life "

> >

> >

> >

> > I hope that I'm not projecting, but he seems to have some BPD traits, or at

least that of an emotional abuser. He gets mad at her randomly, constantly

accuses her of cheating on him, and goes into these manic psychotic rages that I

think we're all familiar with. During these rages he says horrible things to her

and attacks her character. He always says " no one else would ever date you and

put up with you " , and since he is her first bf I think she believes him. They

have been dating for 8 months and so far he's gone into " rages " four times.

After they're over he acts like nothing happened and he apologizes for his

" anger issues " and then it's over.

> >

> >

> >

> > I have tried to keep my opinion of him to myself and be a supportive friend

and good listener. During these " rages " I tell my friend that it isn't normal

and the things he puts her through are horrible. During his last rage I talked

to her for hours and flat out said that he was emotionally abusive and wasn't

going to change unless he got help. She agreed at the time but he apologized so

she forgave him and ignored any of their issues.

> >

> >

> >

> > She constantly defends him by saying he has a lot of baggage and comes from

a broken home, but then I tell her that I do too. I've told her that I'm in a

ton of therapy to change myself, while he isn't doing anything to break the

cycle.

> >

> >

> >

> > He went into a rage over the weekend because she forgot to tell him she went

out to dinner with a girlfriend and a male friend. He told her no one's ever

hurt him as much as she does by lying like this and it makes him worried that

she's cheating on him. She actually agrees with him that she shouldn't " lie " and

should always remember to tell him who she's with and I keep telling her that's

not normal for him to always have to know where she is and who she's with.

> >

> >

> >

> > During our talk I said, " what did you say the last time this happened? " and

she said, " I said if this ever happened again I'd break up with him. " And I told

her I just wanted to remind her of that. We haven't spoken since this

conversation although I know that he has apologized again and she's forgiven

him.

> >

> >

> >

> > It's SO frustrating to see her voluntarily put herself in this situation

although she'll acknowledge that he's abusive. I really don't know what to do-

it's becoming hard to even stay friends with her because I don't like the person

she's becoming. She's becoming a very weak, self-doubting person who completely

idolizes him and can't talk about anything else. I would love any advice!!

> >

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