Guest guest Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Fiona, My son is 12 now and I am soooo over protective that it's not even funny. In fact, his last words to me the other day when I had checked on him 5 times while he was sick was, " I am so sick of this bull crap! " LOLOLOL He makes me laugh, but he was really irritated with me feeling his forehead. He wants to stay home by himself or ride the bus to school. My 9 and 7 year old want to play in the front yard and ride their bikes while I'm not out there. It's so hard and such a fine line. Amazingly, my mother wasn't over protective of me, but would make me second guess everything I did with my kids. When my son needed back surgery she said, " Why are you putting that baby through that!? " As if we were doing it because we wanted to and not because we had to. Anyway, I am sorry I don't know the answer because I struggle with the same things. It's hard letting go. My worst nightmare would be someone hurting one of my kids. That just runs through my mind over and over again too. In a message dated 6/24/2010 9:38:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hermitsdaughter@... writes: I am really anxious lately. My daughter is 12; will be 13 in October. She wants to walk to the store by herself. She wants to walk to the library by herself. She wants to go to the movies with her friends without me there. All of which I truly understand. I vividly remember the intense desire to do stuff without being watched and monitored. I do get it. Our neighborhood isn't the safest--a lot of transient people. Plus, we live on an intersection with 4 lanes of traffic. Even if it were " safe, " I'm sure I would still feel just as anxious. It's hard to let go, and it's hard to talk to her about being aware of her surroundings and keeping the iPod volume low--she gives me the rolling eyes. Anyway, on top of my own anxieties, my mother compounds it all with her out of control hysteria. My daughter told her that, while visiting my husband's sick uncle in the hospital the other day, my husband let her go to the cafeteria on her own. " Your husband let her go to the cafeteria in the hospital?? By herself?? do you know how many wackos there are out there that could drag her into a room??? blah blah blah.... " I've already thought about all this stuff and am not sure I would have let her go to the caf. My mother's throwing more on me is not helping. The thing is, I'm realizing, my job as a parent is to prepare her to leave. I can't keep her. I can't demand her loyalty as has been demanded of me. I don't want to, either. And I'm at work while all this is going on. Even if I wanted to, I can't control what my husband does and does not allow her to do. He's a great dad and has good judgement. I have to accept his decisions as he does mine. When my mother lit into me this morning about the caf incident, my immediate reaction is fear, fear, fear. Fear of her. Fear of the possibility that she's right and my husband is wrong. Fear of my daughter's growing up. I was automatically on the defense, trying to explain, and then catching myself....why do I need to explain to her?? My husband and daughter are visiting a national park in August with a tour group. I'm filled with fear. Fear of my mother finding out. Fear that my husband will tell my daughter it's ok to go visit Old Faithful on her own. They're both not understanding why I don't want my mother knowing. And to not mention that my daughter is home alone for an hour each day while my husband drops my other daughter off at her day camp (she doesn't want to have to get up so early, so he lets her sleep in). I feel like I'm talking to martians. And I am. They don't get what I have to deal with, what I would be dealing with while they're away. I feel like my husband thinks I'm overreacting in expressing reservations about these things. I feel like my mother thinks I'm UNDERreacting. she thinks I'm allowing my husband to " run the show. " (Hidden message -- " you should be letting ME run the show! " ) And now I'm sure she'll have my brother, her flying monkey, call me to knock sense into me. He's always giving me parenting advice when he has no kids and can barely take care of himself! I just feel so pulled and drained from the whole experience. How do those of you with kids around this age handle it? I'd love your feedback. And I just need general feedback re: not feeding into my mother and automatically trying to explain myself, my marriage, everything to her. Thanks everyone! Fiona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 As a KO, I won't give you a list of why " I understand " ... as a KO, I get it. So I'll cut to the chase of 'what I do'... Starting @ 11 I'd let him stay home for the hour + it took me to get groceries. He was to stay locked in, phone answered if caller ID said it was ME or Grandpa. Period. He LOVED that " freedom " and proved himself worth of longer/bigger solo times. Eventually that has grown into several hour periods (if I have to go to the airport, 'serious' shopping, etc.) He's thrilled when I leave, and sometimes asks me to just 'go somewhere'.... This past 6 months I've let him join his friends at the local movie place (restaurants, stores, etc. in the same 'complex.') He enjoys that. I curb my nerves and let him 'live'... he's, again, proven himself worthy there. He's always with at least 4 other people (ages 13 - 16) and they're very well behaved... so I relax a bit. Last weekend he and his best friend went to the " Teen Night " at the County Fair... I dropped them off at 3pm and got them at 1130 pm. That took a bit more nerve but, again, they've been raised to stand on their own two feet (MY apprehensions aside) and they had fun and liberty. There are more examples but what it boils down to is this: Teen has a cell phone with unlimited texting. He's to keep it on at all times when he's out. IF I text him, he's to just check in. I try to do this ONLY ONCE when he's out. He's Martial Arts trained so I'm not worried about him physically... he's big and you'd be a fool to try and snag him ;o) But he's also been raised to be VERY aware... makes him overly cautious sometimes but he's a good 'surroundings assessor'.... he's also " Net Aware " (since he was about 9 I've explained to him - and now he jokes about it and repeats it to everyone - " Assume that everyone you talk to/encounter online is a nake guy in his mom's basement trying to get your information so he can kidnap you. " That's put a stop to more 'bad stuff' that you could imagine. Basically, I've given him the tools I wasn't given. I've built his " self awareness " backpack ;o) with stuff to 'survive' so that he can enjoy life, as is appropriate at each level, with his friends and not find himself unable to cope. It's worked. As do Nada... OMG.... yes, she spouts her opinions and has her fits... but, as my therapist told me the first month in - 2+ years ago - " You don't have to tell her everything!!! " Huh?!? I didn't know that! So now I don't. Easier all around. And... I'd be proud of my 12 year old making to the cafeteria and back in a hospital. They need to know to do survive and obviously she has a strong sense of 'that' - good job, Mom! Lynnette - Trust your daughter, trust your husband and let her live. She'll figure it out! > > Fiona, My son is 12 now and I am soooo over protective that it's not even > funny. In fact, his last words to me the other day when I had checked on > him 5 times while he was sick was, " I am so sick of this bull crap! " > LOLOLOL He makes me laugh, but he was really irritated with me feeling his > forehead. He wants to stay home by himself or ride the bus to school. My 9 and 7 > year old want to play in the front yard and ride their bikes while I'm not > out there. > > It's so hard and such a fine line. > > Amazingly, my mother wasn't over protective of me, but would make me second > guess everything I did with my kids. When my son needed back surgery she > said, " Why are you putting that baby through that!? " As if we were doing it > because we wanted to and not because we had to. > > Anyway, I am sorry I don't know the answer because I struggle with the > same things. It's hard letting go. My worst nightmare would be someone hurting > one of my kids. That just runs through my mind over and over again too. > > > > In a message dated 6/24/2010 9:38:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > hermitsdaughter@... writes: > > > > > I am really anxious lately. > > My daughter is 12; will be 13 in October. She wants to walk to the store > by herself. She wants to walk to the library by herself. She wants to go to > the movies with her friends without me there. > > All of which I truly understand. I vividly remember the intense desire to > do stuff without being watched and monitored. I do get it. > > Our neighborhood isn't the safest--a lot of transient people. Plus, we > live on an intersection with 4 lanes of traffic. Even if it were " safe, " I'm > sure I would still feel just as anxious. It's hard to let go, and it's hard > to talk to her about being aware of her surroundings and keeping the iPod > volume low--she gives me the rolling eyes. > > Anyway, on top of my own anxieties, my mother compounds it all with her > out of control hysteria. My daughter told her that, while visiting my > husband's sick uncle in the hospital the other day, my husband let her go to the > cafeteria on her own. " Your husband let her go to the cafeteria in the > hospital?? By herself?? do you know how many wackos there are out there that > could drag her into a room??? blah blah blah.... " > > I've already thought about all this stuff and am not sure I would have let > her go to the caf. My mother's throwing more on me is not helping. > > The thing is, I'm realizing, my job as a parent is to prepare her to > leave. I can't keep her. I can't demand her loyalty as has been demanded of me. > I don't want to, either. > > And I'm at work while all this is going on. Even if I wanted to, I can't > control what my husband does and does not allow her to do. He's a great dad > and has good judgement. I have to accept his decisions as he does mine. > > When my mother lit into me this morning about the caf incident, my > immediate reaction is fear, fear, fear. Fear of her. Fear of the possibility that > she's right and my husband is wrong. Fear of my daughter's growing up. I > was automatically on the defense, trying to explain, and then catching > myself....why do I need to explain to her?? > > My husband and daughter are visiting a national park in August with a tour > group. I'm filled with fear. Fear of my mother finding out. Fear that my > husband will tell my daughter it's ok to go visit Old Faithful on her own. > > They're both not understanding why I don't want my mother knowing. And to > not mention that my daughter is home alone for an hour each day while my > husband drops my other daughter off at her day camp (she doesn't want to have > to get up so early, so he lets her sleep in). I feel like I'm talking to > martians. And I am. They don't get what I have to deal with, what I would be > dealing with while they're away. > > I feel like my husband thinks I'm overreacting in expressing reservations > about these things. > > I feel like my mother thinks I'm UNDERreacting. she thinks I'm allowing my > husband to " run the show. " (Hidden message -- " you should be letting ME > run the show! " ) > > And now I'm sure she'll have my brother, her flying monkey, call me to > knock sense into me. He's always giving me parenting advice when he has no > kids and can barely take care of himself! > > I just feel so pulled and drained from the whole experience. > > How do those of you with kids around this age handle it? I'd love your > feedback. > > And I just need general feedback re: not feeding into my mother and > automatically trying to explain myself, my marriage, everything to her. > > Thanks everyone! > > Fiona > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Fiona and - Okay, for this one there's an answer! Flailing around hysterically (the Nada approach) or being over-protective are not good for the kids or for the parents. We have to let them learn to be adults while they live with us, so that when they leave the nest they fly straight and sure. As parents, we are the ultimate authorities on what is and isn't safe for our kids. Not our Moms and Dads, not our kids' peers and their parents - nobody else gets to make that decision. We have both the authority and the responsibility to know our neighborhoods, know our kids, and decide what they're ready for. The good thing is that kids, by their behavior, will let us know what they're ready to handle. So maybe a 12 year old can be home alone long enough for Dad to run to the grocery, IF they have shown they will keep the deadbolts locked, not try to use the stove, and are not put in charge of unruly younger children. If you live on a farm, they have a wide outdoor range to explore, but they have to be warned about the combine and the thresher. If you live in a dangerous urban neighborhood, maybe they can't even play in the yard - and then it's not about their age or maturity, it's about the dangers in your specific community. EVERYTHING depends on the kid and the environment. There is no " one size fits all " about this. And environments can be deceiving - we live in a very nice suburb, and an honest-to-God serial killer was captured not three miles from my house. Turns out he'd been doing physical conditioning in the park just down the hill from us, where all our kids ride bikes and play ball. Talk about creeped out! You better believe the " buddy system " was put into practice after that. What you can do is to start teaching street smarts and general life skills as soon as possible, so that the kids become competent and are better able to make decisions when you're not around. You also have to step back and let them practice their new skills until you are certain your kid is competent in a given situation. That is messy and time-consuming, but it's the only way to let them learn these things in a controlled setting. Kids with lots of confidence and a good life-skill set are also less likely to succumb to bullying or cave in to peer pressure. It's win-win all around. As a metaphor - I envision my son at the top of a steep cliff. He's a typical teenage boy - curious and almost fearless, so I know he'll get as close to the cliff edge as he possibly can - he is compelled to see what's down there. I can't be there to tell him what to do all the time, and I can't restrain him from going close to the edge of the cliff - he's going to go, no matter what I do. What I can do is to teach him how to use climbing equipment and make sure he knows how to rig his own harness - then have faith that he'll be able to rappel down that cliff safely. His skills and competence will allow him to control his natural tendency to thrill-seeking, and be adventurous in a safe way. There are groups and teachers who can help with this. Karate training might be good. Any self-defense course would teach good street skills (awareness of surroundings, how to overcome the fear of saying " no, " how to react when you feel threatened). For all-around life skills, the system we've used with our son is Scouting. I can guarantee you that if your boy stays with that program, he will become a competent young man. If a kid can handle a two-week, 70-mile backpacking trip in bear country, he's not going to crumble in panic when he's left alone at home. Twelve is a perfect age to get involved, if you're interested - but find a troop that goes camping every month and has some real back-country adventures. Those trips build confidence, competence and maturity faster than anything else I've seen. > > Fiona, My son is 12 now and I am soooo over protective that it's not even > funny. In fact, his last words to me the other day when I had checked on > him 5 times while he was sick was, " I am so sick of this bull crap! " > LOLOLOL He makes me laugh, but he was really irritated with me feeling his > forehead. He wants to stay home by himself or ride the bus to school. My 9 and 7 > year old want to play in the front yard and ride their bikes while I'm not > out there. > > It's so hard and such a fine line. > > Amazingly, my mother wasn't over protective of me, but would make me second > guess everything I did with my kids. When my son needed back surgery she > said, " Why are you putting that baby through that!? " As if we were doing it > because we wanted to and not because we had to. > > Anyway, I am sorry I don't know the answer because I struggle with the > same things. It's hard letting go. My worst nightmare would be someone hurting > one of my kids. That just runs through my mind over and over again too. > > > > In a message dated 6/24/2010 9:38:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > hermitsdaughter@... writes: > > > > > I am really anxious lately. > > My daughter is 12; will be 13 in October. She wants to walk to the store > by herself. She wants to walk to the library by herself. She wants to go to > the movies with her friends without me there. > > All of which I truly understand. I vividly remember the intense desire to > do stuff without being watched and monitored. I do get it. > > Our neighborhood isn't the safest--a lot of transient people. Plus, we > live on an intersection with 4 lanes of traffic. Even if it were " safe, " I'm > sure I would still feel just as anxious. It's hard to let go, and it's hard > to talk to her about being aware of her surroundings and keeping the iPod > volume low--she gives me the rolling eyes. > > Anyway, on top of my own anxieties, my mother compounds it all with her > out of control hysteria. My daughter told her that, while visiting my > husband's sick uncle in the hospital the other day, my husband let her go to the > cafeteria on her own. " Your husband let her go to the cafeteria in the > hospital?? By herself?? do you know how many wackos there are out there that > could drag her into a room??? blah blah blah.... " > > I've already thought about all this stuff and am not sure I would have let > her go to the caf. My mother's throwing more on me is not helping. > > The thing is, I'm realizing, my job as a parent is to prepare her to > leave. I can't keep her. I can't demand her loyalty as has been demanded of me. > I don't want to, either. > > And I'm at work while all this is going on. Even if I wanted to, I can't > control what my husband does and does not allow her to do. He's a great dad > and has good judgement. I have to accept his decisions as he does mine. > > When my mother lit into me this morning about the caf incident, my > immediate reaction is fear, fear, fear. Fear of her. Fear of the possibility that > she's right and my husband is wrong. Fear of my daughter's growing up. I > was automatically on the defense, trying to explain, and then catching > myself....why do I need to explain to her?? > > My husband and daughter are visiting a national park in August with a tour > group. I'm filled with fear. Fear of my mother finding out. Fear that my > husband will tell my daughter it's ok to go visit Old Faithful on her own. > > They're both not understanding why I don't want my mother knowing. And to > not mention that my daughter is home alone for an hour each day while my > husband drops my other daughter off at her day camp (she doesn't want to have > to get up so early, so he lets her sleep in). I feel like I'm talking to > martians. And I am. They don't get what I have to deal with, what I would be > dealing with while they're away. > > I feel like my husband thinks I'm overreacting in expressing reservations > about these things. > > I feel like my mother thinks I'm UNDERreacting. she thinks I'm allowing my > husband to " run the show. " (Hidden message -- " you should be letting ME > run the show! " ) > > And now I'm sure she'll have my brother, her flying monkey, call me to > knock sense into me. He's always giving me parenting advice when he has no > kids and can barely take care of himself! > > I just feel so pulled and drained from the whole experience. > > How do those of you with kids around this age handle it? I'd love your > feedback. > > And I just need general feedback re: not feeding into my mother and > automatically trying to explain myself, my marriage, everything to her. > > Thanks everyone! > > Fiona > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Sorry. I should have stated that my 12 year old son is in a wheelchair, so when my daughter gets a little older, I'll be more able to leave him home with her here. She's only 9 right now so I can't leave them alone. If there were a fire or someone broke in, he couldn't get out. I know my circumstances are a little different than everyone else's, though. In a message dated 6/24/2010 12:16:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, talexander73@... writes: Fiona and - Okay, for this one there's an answer! Flailing around hysterically (the Nada approach) or being over-protective are not good for the kids or for the parents. We have to let them learn to be adults while they live with us, so that when they leave the nest they fly straight and sure. As parents, we are the ultimate authorities on what is and isn't safe for our kids. Not our Moms and Dads, not our kids' peers and their parents - nobody else gets to make that decision. We have both the authority and the responsibility to know our neighborhoods, know our kids, and decide what they're ready for. The good thing is that kids, by their behavior, will let us know what they're ready to handle. So maybe a 12 year old can be home alone long enough for Dad to run to the grocery, IF they have shown they will keep the deadbolts locked, not try to use the stove, and are not put in charge of unruly younger children. If you live on a farm, they have a wide outdoor range to explore, but they have to be warned about the combine and the thresher. If you live in a dangerous urban neighborhood, maybe they can't even play in the yard - and then it's not about their age or maturity, it's about the dangers in your specific community. EVERYTHING depends on the kid and the environment. There is no " one size fits all " about this. And environments can be deceiving - we live in a very nice suburb, and an honest-to-God serial killer was captured not three miles from my house. Turns out he'd been doing physical conditioning in the park just down the hill from us, where all our kids ride bikes and play ball. Talk about creeped out! You better believe the " buddy system " was put into practice after that. What you can do is to start teaching street smarts and general life skills as soon as possible, so that the kids become competent and are better able to make decisions when you're not around. You also have to step back and let them practice their new skills until you are certain your kid is competent in a given situation. That is messy and time-consuming, but it's the only way to let them learn these things in a controlled setting. Kids with lots of confidence and a good life-skill set are also less likely to succumb to bullying or cave in to peer pressure. It's win-win all around. As a metaphor - I envision my son at the top of a steep cliff. He's a typical teenage boy - curious and almost fearless, so I know he'll get as close to the cliff edge as he possibly can - he is compelled to see what's down there. I can't be there to tell him what to do all the time, and I can't restrain him from going close to the edge of the cliff - he's going to go, no matter what I do. What I can do is to teach him how to use climbing equipment and make sure he knows how to rig his own harness - then have faith that he'll be able to rappel down that cliff safely. His skills and competence will allow him to control his natural tendency to thrill-seeking, and be adventurous in a safe way. There are groups and teachers who can help with this. Karate training might be good. Any self-defense course would teach good street skills (awareness of surroundings, how to overcome the fear of saying " no, " how to react when you feel threatened). For all-around life skills, the system we've used with our son is Scouting. I can guarantee you that if your boy stays with that program, he will become a competent young man. If a kid can handle a two-week, 70-mile backpacking trip in bear country, he's not going to crumble in panic when he's left alone at home. Twelve is a perfect age to get involved, if you're interested - but find a troop that goes camping every month and has some real back-country adventures. Those trips build confidence, competence and maturity faster than anything else I've seen. > > Fiona, My son is 12 now and I am soooo over protective that it's not even > funny. In fact, his last words to me the other day when I had checked on > him 5 times while he was sick was, " I am so sick of this bull crap! " > LOLOLOL He makes me laugh, but he was really irritated with me feeling his > forehead. He wants to stay home by himself or ride the bus to school. My 9 and 7 > year old want to play in the front yard and ride their bikes while I'm not > out there. > > It's so hard and such a fine line. > > Amazingly, my mother wasn't over protective of me, but would make me second > guess everything I did with my kids. When my son needed back surgery she > said, " Why are you putting that baby through that!? " As if we were doing it > because we wanted to and not because we had to. > > Anyway, I am sorry I don't know the answer because I struggle with the > same things. It's hard letting go. My worst nightmare would be someone hurting > one of my kids. That just runs through my mind over and over again too. > > > > In a message dated 6/24/2010 9:38:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > hermitsdaughter@... writes: > > > > > I am really anxious lately. > > My daughter is 12; will be 13 in October. She wants to walk to the store > by herself. She wants to walk to the library by herself. She wants to go to > the movies with her friends without me there. > > All of which I truly understand. I vividly remember the intense desire to > do stuff without being watched and monitored. I do get it. > > Our neighborhood isn't the safest--a lot of transient people. Plus, we > live on an intersection with 4 lanes of traffic. Even if it were " safe, " I'm > sure I would still feel just as anxious. It's hard to let go, and it's hard > to talk to her about being aware of her surroundings and keeping the iPod > volume low--she gives me the rolling eyes. > > Anyway, on top of my own anxieties, my mother compounds it all with her > out of control hysteria. My daughter told her that, while visiting my > husband's sick uncle in the hospital the other day, my husband let her go to the > cafeteria on her own. " Your husband let her go to the cafeteria in the > hospital?? By herself?? do you know how many wackos there are out there that > could drag her into a room??? blah blah blah.... " > > I've already thought about all this stuff and am not sure I would have let > her go to the caf. My mother's throwing more on me is not helping. > > The thing is, I'm realizing, my job as a parent is to prepare her to > leave. I can't keep her. I can't demand her loyalty as has been demanded of me. > I don't want to, either. > > And I'm at work while all this is going on. Even if I wanted to, I can't > control what my husband does and does not allow her to do. He's a great dad > and has good judgement. I have to accept his decisions as he does mine. > > When my mother lit into me this morning about the caf incident, my > immediate reaction is fear, fear, fear. Fear of her. Fear of the possibility that > she's right and my husband is wrong. Fear of my daughter's growing up. I > was automatically on the defense, trying to explain, and then catching > myself....why do I need to explain to her?? > > My husband and daughter are visiting a national park in August with a tour > group. I'm filled with fear. Fear of my mother finding out. Fear that my > husband will tell my daughter it's ok to go visit Old Faithful on her own. > > They're both not understanding why I don't want my mother knowing. And to > not mention that my daughter is home alone for an hour each day while my > husband drops my other daughter off at her day camp (she doesn't want to have > to get up so early, so he lets her sleep in). I feel like I'm talking to > martians. And I am. They don't get what I have to deal with, what I would be > dealing with while they're away. > > I feel like my husband thinks I'm overreacting in expressing reservations > about these things. > > I feel like my mother thinks I'm UNDERreacting. she thinks I'm allowing my > husband to " run the show. " (Hidden message -- " you should be letting ME > run the show! " ) > > And now I'm sure she'll have my brother, her flying monkey, call me to > knock sense into me. He's always giving me parenting advice when he has no > kids and can barely take care of himself! > > I just feel so pulled and drained from the whole experience. > > How do those of you with kids around this age handle it? I'd love your > feedback. > > And I just need general feedback re: not feeding into my mother and > automatically trying to explain myself, my marriage, everything to her. > > Thanks everyone! > > Fiona > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Karate is an awesome thing for kids, I believe. We just enrolled my 8 year old son in karate 3 weeks ago and I have seen improvement in his self esteem. He's little for his age so he tends to be shy and more of a followerer. I'm hoping this will really help bump up his confidence! In a message dated 6/24/2010 12:16:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, talexander73@... writes: Karate training might be good. Any self-defense course would teach good street skills (awareness of surroundings, how to overcome the fear of saying " no, " how to react when you feel threatened). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Great question Fiona, I totally agree with the other parents. It's up to you to assess your child's readiness, how comfortable they are and your environment/community. I recently saw an article about a book called " Free Range Kids " that looked pretty good. It talks about how to safely let your kids experience the world at increasing levels of independence at age appropriate times. Maybe the book would help you find a good fit for your family as to how tight of reins to keep with them. It would be a dis-service to your child to just set them free into the world at 18 without letting them build the skills they need to survive long before that. It's always a balancing act. I agree also that these decisions lay solely between you and your husband. They are tough decisions sometimes but like your kids, you should expect you will all make mistakes from time to time and adjust accordingly. Given that these are complicated decisions, I am glad to be NC with my nada so she is as far away from my teenagers as possible. The teen/growing up times are hard enough without a nada around to make you second guess yourself constantly and get in the middle of things. patinage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 My daughter is exactly the same age. I wouldn't let her walk in the city by herself. With a friend, maybe. The movies wouldn't bother me, nor would the cafeteria. I think you have to trust your husband at the national park. He loves her. I'm sure he'll see to it that she's safe. None of this is any of your mother or brother's business. period. It's a tough age, isn't it? ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 9:36:52 AM Subject: What if she's right?  I am really anxious lately. My daughter is 12; will be 13 in October. She wants to walk to the store by herself. She wants to walk to the library by herself. She wants to go to the movies with her friends without me there. All of which I truly understand. I vividly remember the intense desire to do stuff without being watched and monitored. I do get it. Our neighborhood isn't the safest--a lot of transient people. Plus, we live on an intersection with 4 lanes of traffic. Even if it were " safe, " I'm sure I would still feel just as anxious. It's hard to let go, and it's hard to talk to her about being aware of her surroundings and keeping the iPod volume low--she gives me the rolling eyes. Anyway, on top of my own anxieties, my mother compounds it all with her out of control hysteria. My daughter told her that, while visiting my husband's sick uncle in the hospital the other day, my husband let her go to the cafeteria on her own. " Your husband let her go to the cafeteria in the hospital?? By herself?? do you know how many wackos there are out there that could drag her into a room??? blah blah blah.... " I've already thought about all this stuff and am not sure I would have let her go to the caf. My mother's throwing more on me is not helping. The thing is, I'm realizing, my job as a parent is to prepare her to leave. I can't keep her. I can't demand her loyalty as has been demanded of me. I don't want to, either. And I'm at work while all this is going on. Even if I wanted to, I can't control what my husband does and does not allow her to do. He's a great dad and has good judgement. I have to accept his decisions as he does mine. When my mother lit into me this morning about the caf incident, my immediate reaction is fear, fear, fear. Fear of her. Fear of the possibility that she's right and my husband is wrong. Fear of my daughter's growing up. I was automatically on the defense, trying to explain, and then catching myself....why do I need to explain to her?? My husband and daughter are visiting a national park in August with a tour group. I'm filled with fear. Fear of my mother finding out. Fear that my husband will tell my daughter it's ok to go visit Old Faithful on her own. They're both not understanding why I don't want my mother knowing. And to not mention that my daughter is home alone for an hour each day while my husband drops my other daughter off at her day camp (she doesn't want to have to get up so early, so he lets her sleep in). I feel like I'm talking to martians. And I am. They don't get what I have to deal with, what I would be dealing with while they're away. I feel like my husband thinks I'm overreacting in expressing reservations about these things. I feel like my mother thinks I'm UNDERreacting. she thinks I'm allowing my husband to " run the show. " (Hidden message -- " you should be letting ME run the show! " ) And now I'm sure she'll have my brother, her flying monkey, call me to knock sense into me. He's always giving me parenting advice when he has no kids and can barely take care of himself! I just feel so pulled and drained from the whole experience. How do those of you with kids around this age handle it? I'd love your feedback. And I just need general feedback re: not feeding into my mother and automatically trying to explain myself, my marriage, everything to her. Thanks everyone! Fiona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Hi Fiona, Sounds like you got a lot of good advice and all of us parents have to deal with such things. If it's city life we deal with people and traffic and such, and if it's rural you deal with tree climbing, getting lost, people, etc. My thoughts are that *you* decide what you are comfortable with. One thing, I would tell my kid that if he/she rolled eyes at my concerns then I would not talk about it until she/he could respect my concerns. I would also say no to the ipod wearing out on her own, period. It's dangerous obviously for a lot of reasons. Seems like the cafeteria at a hospital is not unsafe for a kid that age as long as she knows how to get help if she needs it or avoid trouble if she sees it. And *how* to see it. The bottom line is that everyone needs to respect YOUR concerns. Sounds like you are trying to give freedom but you don't know how much. Your mother obviously is out of the picture for this discussion. But your husband can have a discussion with you. You can look at the national parks website on safety. Also, I watch some of these shows about survival. And many times adults and kids go out and do not respect nature. So I tell my son (who is 15) to remember to respect nature because you never know what can happen. And you can say to your husband that you *might* be over-reacting but that is because you need to have a serious conversation about it. (I don't know if you are over-reacting or not). Oh, you can call the tour group and find out about their *safety* protocol too. Figure out what YOU need to feel safe. What your daughter needs to BE safe, and come up with some good ideas, rather than let your mom make you feel nervous and waste your energy. Let us know how it goes or any good ideas you come up with! ~patricia What if she's right? I am really anxious lately. My daughter is 12; will be 13 in October. She wants to walk to the store by herself. She wants to walk to the library by herself. She wants to go to the movies with her friends without me there. All of which I truly understand. I vividly remember the intense desire to do stuff without being watched and monitored. I do get it. Our neighborhood isn't the safest--a lot of transient people. Plus, we live on an intersection with 4 lanes of traffic. Even if it were " safe, " I'm sure I would still feel just as anxious. It's hard to let go, and it's hard to talk to her about being aware of her surroundings and keeping the iPod volume low--she gives me the rolling eyes. Anyway, on top of my own anxieties, my mother compounds it all with her out of control hysteria. My daughter told her that, while visiting my husband's sick uncle in the hospital the other day, my husband let her go to the cafeteria on her own. " Your husband let her go to the cafeteria in the hospital?? By herself?? do you know how many wackos there are out there that could drag her into a room??? blah blah blah.... " I've already thought about all this stuff and am not sure I would have let her go to the caf. My mother's throwing more on me is not helping. The thing is, I'm realizing, my job as a parent is to prepare her to leave. I can't keep her. I can't demand her loyalty as has been demanded of me. I don't want to, either. And I'm at work while all this is going on. Even if I wanted to, I can't control what my husband does and does not allow her to do. He's a great dad and has good judgement. I have to accept his decisions as he does mine. When my mother lit into me this morning about the caf incident, my immediate reaction is fear, fear, fear. Fear of her. Fear of the possibility that she's right and my husband is wrong. Fear of my daughter's growing up. I was automatically on the defense, trying to explain, and then catching myself....why do I need to explain to her?? My husband and daughter are visiting a national park in August with a tour group. I'm filled with fear. Fear of my mother finding out. Fear that my husband will tell my daughter it's ok to go visit Old Faithful on her own. They're both not understanding why I don't want my mother knowing. And to not mention that my daughter is home alone for an hour each day while my husband drops my other daughter off at her day camp (she doesn't want to have to get up so early, so he lets her sleep in). I feel like I'm talking to martians. And I am. They don't get what I have to deal with, what I would be dealing with while they're away. I feel like my husband thinks I'm overreacting in expressing reservations about these things. I feel like my mother thinks I'm UNDERreacting. she thinks I'm allowing my husband to " run the show. " (Hidden message -- " you should be letting ME run the show! " ) And now I'm sure she'll have my brother, her flying monkey, call me to knock sense into me. He's always giving me parenting advice when he has no kids and can barely take care of himself! I just feel so pulled and drained from the whole experience. How do those of you with kids around this age handle it? I'd love your feedback. And I just need general feedback re: not feeding into my mother and automatically trying to explain myself, my marriage, everything to her. Thanks everyone! Fiona ------------------------------------ Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Learning when to protect and when to let go is the single most tricky part of parenting, if you ask me. This is even harder for us--we grew up with nothing but craziness in this regard! I'm not sure how nada pulled it off, but she seemed to find a way to both completely neglect me and completely control my every move. When I went off to college at 18, I had never made a decision by myself and let everyone else make decisions for me. And, to make it more dangerous, I didn't have any street-smarts to draw from--I remember, as a 120 pound 18 year old, diving into a van filled with 6 strange young men and thinking that was cool! By the grace of God, I was okay. But still. Walking to the library solo sounds scary to me. Sitting in a hospital cafeteria sounds fine to me. Hospitals are crawling with security guards, if I'm not mistaken. I think you've got really strong instincts on this one. Could you honor her new-found independence by letting her know 1) you believe in her 2) your job is to make sure she is safe and 3) you want her to be as independent she can safely be? When a kid intuitively knows you are on their side and working WITH them to increase their independence, I think that helps. I agree--I believe our jobs as parents is to grow up men and women. When my sons move out of my house, I don't want them to have any surprises. I want them to know how to cook, budget, stay safe when they walk to a destination, etc. I have fallen down on my job if they have to experience what I did--I was literally thrown to the wolves at 18 when I had been raised as a toddler! Also, I wonder if a safety class would help you both? Maybe you could take it together? Let her speak to the instructor about walking to the library in a sketchy area through 4 major intersections--you will never have to say another word about it. Either way, I think all of us women should take a personal safety course. Let her learn how to protect herself if something should go wrong. That will help her respect her safety more and help you by knowing she is armed with good tools. Most of all, tell her you are on her side and you both have the goal of letting her be as independent as possible. Let her know you trust her and agree she should start becoming more independent. And then follow up with specific actions/idea. And, just like you are doing, try to protect her from any triggers you know about. If her independence scares you in an unhealthy way, try work that out away from her. Lord knows I would have given my eye teeth for a mom that was sane and loving enough to do that. Blessings, Karla > > I am really anxious lately. > > My daughter is 12; will be 13 in October. She wants to walk to the store by herself. She wants to walk to the library by herself. She wants to go to the movies with her friends without me there. > > All of which I truly understand. I vividly remember the intense desire to do stuff without being watched and monitored. I do get it. > > Our neighborhood isn't the safest--a lot of transient people. Plus, we live on an intersection with 4 lanes of traffic. Even if it were " safe, " I'm sure I would still feel just as anxious. It's hard to let go, and it's hard to talk to her about being aware of her surroundings and keeping the iPod volume low--she gives me the rolling eyes. > > Anyway, on top of my own anxieties, my mother compounds it all with her out of control hysteria. My daughter told her that, while visiting my husband's sick uncle in the hospital the other day, my husband let her go to the cafeteria on her own. " Your husband let her go to the cafeteria in the hospital?? By herself?? do you know how many wackos there are out there that could drag her into a room??? blah blah blah.... " > > I've already thought about all this stuff and am not sure I would have let her go to the caf. My mother's throwing more on me is not helping. > > The thing is, I'm realizing, my job as a parent is to prepare her to leave. I can't keep her. I can't demand her loyalty as has been demanded of me. I don't want to, either. > > And I'm at work while all this is going on. Even if I wanted to, I can't control what my husband does and does not allow her to do. He's a great dad and has good judgement. I have to accept his decisions as he does mine. > > When my mother lit into me this morning about the caf incident, my immediate reaction is fear, fear, fear. Fear of her. Fear of the possibility that she's right and my husband is wrong. Fear of my daughter's growing up. I was automatically on the defense, trying to explain, and then catching myself....why do I need to explain to her?? > > My husband and daughter are visiting a national park in August with a tour group. I'm filled with fear. Fear of my mother finding out. Fear that my husband will tell my daughter it's ok to go visit Old Faithful on her own. > > They're both not understanding why I don't want my mother knowing. And to not mention that my daughter is home alone for an hour each day while my husband drops my other daughter off at her day camp (she doesn't want to have to get up so early, so he lets her sleep in). I feel like I'm talking to martians. And I am. They don't get what I have to deal with, what I would be dealing with while they're away. > > I feel like my husband thinks I'm overreacting in expressing reservations about these things. > > I feel like my mother thinks I'm UNDERreacting. she thinks I'm allowing my husband to " run the show. " (Hidden message -- " you should be letting ME run the show! " ) > > And now I'm sure she'll have my brother, her flying monkey, call me to knock sense into me. He's always giving me parenting advice when he has no kids and can barely take care of himself! > > I just feel so pulled and drained from the whole experience. > > How do those of you with kids around this age handle it? I'd love your feedback. > > And I just need general feedback re: not feeding into my mother and automatically trying to explain myself, my marriage, everything to her. > > Thanks everyone! > > Fiona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 I don't have kids, sorry to be intrusive if I'm answering out of turn, I just think you have enough issues and worries with the differences with your husband and it's okay to put a wall up and not discuss it with your mom at all. I don't know how you hear yourself think with all that chatter back and forth across you. It's none of her business how you and your H. raise your kids, those issues are between the two of you. > > I am really anxious lately. > > My daughter is 12; will be 13 in October. She wants to walk to the store by herself. She wants to walk to the library by herself. She wants to go to the movies with her friends without me there. > > All of which I truly understand. I vividly remember the intense desire to do stuff without being watched and monitored. I do get it. > > Our neighborhood isn't the safest--a lot of transient people. Plus, we live on an intersection with 4 lanes of traffic. Even if it were " safe, " I'm sure I would still feel just as anxious. It's hard to let go, and it's hard to talk to her about being aware of her surroundings and keeping the iPod volume low--she gives me the rolling eyes. > > Anyway, on top of my own anxieties, my mother compounds it all with her out of control hysteria. My daughter told her that, while visiting my husband's sick uncle in the hospital the other day, my husband let her go to the cafeteria on her own. " Your husband let her go to the cafeteria in the hospital?? By herself?? do you know how many wackos there are out there that could drag her into a room??? blah blah blah.... " > > I've already thought about all this stuff and am not sure I would have let her go to the caf. My mother's throwing more on me is not helping. > > The thing is, I'm realizing, my job as a parent is to prepare her to leave. I can't keep her. I can't demand her loyalty as has been demanded of me. I don't want to, either. > > And I'm at work while all this is going on. Even if I wanted to, I can't control what my husband does and does not allow her to do. He's a great dad and has good judgement. I have to accept his decisions as he does mine. > > When my mother lit into me this morning about the caf incident, my immediate reaction is fear, fear, fear. Fear of her. Fear of the possibility that she's right and my husband is wrong. Fear of my daughter's growing up. I was automatically on the defense, trying to explain, and then catching myself....why do I need to explain to her?? > > My husband and daughter are visiting a national park in August with a tour group. I'm filled with fear. Fear of my mother finding out. Fear that my husband will tell my daughter it's ok to go visit Old Faithful on her own. > > They're both not understanding why I don't want my mother knowing. And to not mention that my daughter is home alone for an hour each day while my husband drops my other daughter off at her day camp (she doesn't want to have to get up so early, so he lets her sleep in). I feel like I'm talking to martians. And I am. They don't get what I have to deal with, what I would be dealing with while they're away. > > I feel like my husband thinks I'm overreacting in expressing reservations about these things. > > I feel like my mother thinks I'm UNDERreacting. she thinks I'm allowing my husband to " run the show. " (Hidden message -- " you should be letting ME run the show! " ) > > And now I'm sure she'll have my brother, her flying monkey, call me to knock sense into me. He's always giving me parenting advice when he has no kids and can barely take care of himself! > > I just feel so pulled and drained from the whole experience. > > How do those of you with kids around this age handle it? I'd love your feedback. > > And I just need general feedback re: not feeding into my mother and automatically trying to explain myself, my marriage, everything to her. > > Thanks everyone! > > Fiona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2010 Report Share Posted June 28, 2010 i could be totally off the wall on this, but my response to all this is to feel that your anxiety is coming from within.. you.. and really has nothing directly to do with your daughter (except perhaps, yes that she is growing up and is less dependent on you, needs you less now).. or with your husband or your mother or brother.. something is triggering this within you, this feeling but your actual circumstances, your daughter's safety and your husband's decisions and mother's opinions have little to do with it. maybe you are feeling a little 'less' of a person now that your daughter is spreading her wings and learning to fly (a great testament to the health of your and your husband's parenting btw).. and perhaps that is causing some of the anxiety.  i don't really know.. just a guess and just a hunch.  i have a good, good friend who is going thu something like this now.. i have no kids of my own.  sooo.. take what you like and leave the rest, as i said i could be way, way off on this one.ann Subject: What if she's right? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Thursday, June 24, 2010, 8:36 AM  I am really anxious lately. My daughter is 12; will be 13 in October. She wants to walk to the store by herself. She wants to walk to the library by herself. She wants to go to the movies with her friends without me there. All of which I truly understand. I vividly remember the intense desire to do stuff without being watched and monitored. I do get it. Our neighborhood isn't the safest--a lot of transient people. Plus, we live on an intersection with 4 lanes of traffic. Even if it were " safe, " I'm sure I would still feel just as anxious. It's hard to let go, and it's hard to talk to her about being aware of her surroundings and keeping the iPod volume low--she gives me the rolling eyes. Anyway, on top of my own anxieties, my mother compounds it all with her out of control hysteria. My daughter told her that, while visiting my husband's sick uncle in the hospital the other day, my husband let her go to the cafeteria on her own. " Your husband let her go to the cafeteria in the hospital?? By herself?? do you know how many wackos there are out there that could drag her into a room??? blah blah blah.... " I've already thought about all this stuff and am not sure I would have let her go to the caf. My mother's throwing more on me is not helping. The thing is, I'm realizing, my job as a parent is to prepare her to leave. I can't keep her. I can't demand her loyalty as has been demanded of me. I don't want to, either. And I'm at work while all this is going on. Even if I wanted to, I can't control what my husband does and does not allow her to do. He's a great dad and has good judgement. I have to accept his decisions as he does mine. When my mother lit into me this morning about the caf incident, my immediate reaction is fear, fear, fear. Fear of her. Fear of the possibility that she's right and my husband is wrong. Fear of my daughter's growing up. I was automatically on the defense, trying to explain, and then catching myself....why do I need to explain to her?? My husband and daughter are visiting a national park in August with a tour group. I'm filled with fear. Fear of my mother finding out. Fear that my husband will tell my daughter it's ok to go visit Old Faithful on her own. They're both not understanding why I don't want my mother knowing. And to not mention that my daughter is home alone for an hour each day while my husband drops my other daughter off at her day camp (she doesn't want to have to get up so early, so he lets her sleep in). I feel like I'm talking to martians. And I am. They don't get what I have to deal with, what I would be dealing with while they're away. I feel like my husband thinks I'm overreacting in expressing reservations about these things. I feel like my mother thinks I'm UNDERreacting. she thinks I'm allowing my husband to " run the show. " (Hidden message -- " you should be letting ME run the show! " ) And now I'm sure she'll have my brother, her flying monkey, call me to knock sense into me. He's always giving me parenting advice when he has no kids and can barely take care of himself! I just feel so pulled and drained from the whole experience. How do those of you with kids around this age handle it? I'd love your feedback. And I just need general feedback re: not feeding into my mother and automatically trying to explain myself, my marriage, everything to her. Thanks everyone! Fiona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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