Re: Top 5 Nada Masking-Techniques

[Guest guest]

oh, wow...yes, I've known nada has always covered up the abuse, and twisted

it around to seem like it never happened, or that *I* was the abuser !! but

these 5 points, and the examples really bring it home!! never ever #1, but

# 2,3,4 & 5 were very common !! # 5 is the exact thing she's said to me on

many occasions, and i did NOT wear revealing clothes !!

Jackie

In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what* nada

is doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel it,

she did it!

1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite

direction. Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your

appearance, if you express insecurity about your appearance, nada will say:

'I don't know why you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my

friends, remark on what a stunning daughter I have.'

2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if you

attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

nada: you're eating AGAIN?

KO: what? I'm not fat.

nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of yours:

nada: you're TOO sensitive

4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that it

ever happened.

KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma and

Gramps next week!

Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for your

safety or well-being.

Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you are

ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to get

hurt!)

Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this is

SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with your

sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity,

invasively and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you from

embarrasing yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public! She is

trying to 'teach' you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives, too!!

Love,

Charlie

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jackie, I'm here to serve! (Btw I didn't dress revealingly either, and

to this day I am tortured, even in baggy t-shirts, by the echo of those

perpetual comments. 'Hangin' out' was another choice phrase she inflicted.)

Other top fives, or examples of these?

--ChhC

>

> oh, wow...yes, I've known nada has always covered up the abuse, and twisted

> it around to seem like it never happened, or that *I* was the abuser !! but

> these 5 points, and the examples really bring it home!! never ever #1, but

> # 2,3,4 & 5 were very common !! # 5 is the exact thing she's said to me on

> many occasions, and i did NOT wear revealing clothes !!

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what* nada

> is doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel it,

> she did it!

>

> 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite

> direction. Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your

> appearance, if you express insecurity about your appearance, nada will say:

> 'I don't know why you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my

> friends, remark on what a stunning daughter I have.'

>

>

>

> 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if you

> attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

>

> nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> KO: what? I'm not fat.

> nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

>

>

>

> 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of yours:

>

> nada: you're TOO sensitive

>

>

>

> 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that it

> ever happened.

>

> KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma and

> Gramps next week!

> Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

>

>

>

> 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for your

> safety or well-being.

>

> Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you are

> ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to get

> hurt!)

>

> Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this is

> SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with your

> sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity,

> invasively and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you from

> embarrasing yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public! She is

> trying to 'teach' you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

>

> There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives, too!!

>

> Love,

> Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

,my nada , while she was verbally abusing me, then said she didn't want to

talk to me because *I* was so abusive to her !! She was telling me what a

disappointment I was, how I was such a terrible daughter, and I reminded

her of the things I did for them, then she says I'm being abusive to her and

hangs up !!

Nada told me I was ugly and she as surprised my husband was still

around..when I said that was a terrible thing to say, she says I cant take a

joke !!

yup, everything but your #1 has happened to me more times than I'd like to

remember...but she has never ever said anything complimentary...

Jackie

Thanks Jackie, I'm here to serve! (Btw I didn't dress revealingly either,

and to this day I am tortured, even in baggy t-shirts, by the echo of those

perpetual comments. 'Hangin' out' was another choice phrase she inflicted.)

Other top fives, or examples of these?

--ChhC

[Guest guest]

Hi this topic reminds me of a link someone put up here awhile ago about

NPD mothers. And and found it had alot of crossover with my BPD mum.

Point number 6 on the link hit v close to home for me:

She makes you look crazy. If you try to confront her about something

she's done, she'll tell you that you have " a very vivid

imagination " that you don't know what you're talking about,

or that she has no idea what you're talking about.....Once she's

constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, she'll

tell others about them, as always, presenting her smears as expressions

of concern and declaring her own helpless victimhood. She didn't do

anything. She has no idea why you're so irrationally angry with her.

You've hurt her terribly. She thinks you may need psychotherapy. She

loves you very much and would do anything to make you happy, but she

just doesn't know what to do. You keep pushing her away when all she

wants to do is help you.

http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

<http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/>

Nav

>

> oh, wow...yes, I've known nada has always covered up the abuse, and

twisted

> it around to seem like it never happened, or that *I* was the abuser

!! but

> these 5 points, and the examples really bring it home!! never ever

#1, but

> # 2,3,4 & 5 were very common !! # 5 is the exact thing she's said to

me on

> many occasions, and i did NOT wear revealing clothes !!

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what*

nada

> is doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel

it,

> she did it!

>

> 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite

> direction. Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your

> appearance, if you express insecurity about your appearance, nada will

say:

> 'I don't know why you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my

> friends, remark on what a stunning daughter I have.'

>

>

>

> 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if

you

> attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

>

> nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> KO: what? I'm not fat.

> nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

>

>

>

> 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of

yours:

>

> nada: you're TOO sensitive

>

>

>

> 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that

it

> ever happened.

>

> KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma

and

> Gramps next week!

> Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

>

>

>

> 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for

your

> safety or well-being.

>

> Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you

are

> ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to

get

> hurt!)

>

> Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this

is

> SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with

your

> sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity,

> invasively and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you

from

> embarrasing yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public!

She is

> trying to 'teach' you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

>

> There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives,

too!!

>

> Love,

> Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

this is exactly what my nada does !!! right now, she thinks because I've

had to put up stronger boundaries, that it's because of my hormones ( I'm 51

and she thinks I'm going through menopause) she's even said " Oh, I know you

dont mean that, it's just your hormones talking " !! sigh

Jackie

Hi this topic reminds me of a link someone put up here awhile ago about

NPD mothers. And and found it had alot of crossover with my BPD mum.

Point number 6 on the link hit v close to home for me:

She makes you look crazy. If you try to confront her about something

she's done, she'll tell you that you have " a very vivid

imagination " that you don't know what you're talking about,

or that she has no idea what you're talking about.....Once she's

constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, she'll

tell others about them, as always, presenting her smears as expressions

of concern and declaring her own helpless victimhood. She didn't do

anything. She has no idea why you're so irrationally angry with her.

You've hurt her terribly. She thinks you may need psychotherapy. She

loves you very much and would do anything to make you happy, but she

just doesn't know what to do. You keep pushing her away when all she

wants to do is help you.

http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

<http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/>

Nav

[Guest guest]

I just want to say that anytime I feel guilty or bad at all...I come here and

feel so much better and validated. I feel no one really understands but the

people here. Not even my husband, even though he is extremely supportive.

Anyways, this list really spoke to me! #3 is something my nada always did,

constantly telling me " You can't take constructive criticism! I'm your mother.

Im telling you because I love you and don't want you to look like shit. " Also,

my nada was OBSESSED with my sexual body parts as a child. I am very well

endowed and my nada ALWAYS made comments about that saying " That shirt makes

your boobs look huge! It looks horrible on you. " I heard this on a daily basis.

I still have issues with this as an adult. Also, my nada would always grab me in

inappropriate places! It wasn't until later in my adulthood when I realized that

this was wrong and inappropriate.

AJ

>

> In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what* nada is

doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel it, she did

it!

>

> 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite direction.

Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your appearance, if you

express insecurity about your appearance, nada will say: 'I don't know why

you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my friends, remark on what a

stunning daughter I have.'

>

>

>

> 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if you

attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

>

> nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> KO: what? I'm not fat.

> nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

>

>

>

> 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of yours:

>

> nada: you're TOO sensitive

>

>

>

> 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that it ever

happened.

>

> KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma and

Gramps next week!

> Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

>

>

>

> 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for your

safety or well-being.

>

> Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you are

ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to get hurt!)

>

> Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this is

SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with your

sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity, invasively

and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you from embarrasing

yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public! She is trying to 'teach'

you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

>

> There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives, too!!

>

> Love,

> Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks! This link comes up on the list every once in awhile. I do think it's

important to be careful though to make our own judgment as to the reliability of

all the information out there. In my opinion this link describes traits that

are borderline, not narcissist. I would consider this link to describe a

borderline with a strong 'Queen' or narcissist, wing, but still a borderline in

essence.

The only NPD traits I see on this link are #1 (all Cluster Bs mask), #14 (NPDs

are by their nature violent and terroristic, for destruction is their motive),

and # 20 (but NPDs can be 'wrong' as long as it's not important to them and gets

them what they want.) NPDs have different core motives than BPDs. BPDs

desperately seek attention and to 'relieve' themselves of their theme anxieties

and insecurities--which they do by projecting their self-loathing onto a black

sheep and their self-worship onto golden children. NPDs, on the other hand,

have a motive of Greed and Destruction. They will have something they want ALL

of in the world--physical attractiveness, money, power, intellect, for

example--and they will actively seek to destroy it in all others. Not just

their family members. They both act destructively, but NPDs have the intent of

destroying the other (or a quality in them), whilst BPDs have the intent of

'relieving' themselves and/or keeping all eyes focused on them. In some ways,

NPDs can be more predictable, because if you are follwing their 'rules' they

will often leave you alone. Also, being 6 instead of 3, NPDs will sometimes

'play', which can be fun--if your survive their proximity, that is.

--Charlie

> >

> > oh, wow...yes, I've known nada has always covered up the abuse, and

> twisted

> > it around to seem like it never happened, or that *I* was the abuser

> !! but

> > these 5 points, and the examples really bring it home!! never ever

> #1, but

> > # 2,3,4 & 5 were very common !! # 5 is the exact thing she's said to

> me on

> > many occasions, and i did NOT wear revealing clothes !!

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what*

> nada

> > is doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel

> it,

> > she did it!

> >

> > 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite

> > direction. Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your

> > appearance, if you express insecurity about your appearance, nada will

> say:

> > 'I don't know why you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my

> > friends, remark on what a stunning daughter I have.'

> >

> >

> >

> > 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if

> you

> > attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

> >

> > nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> > KO: what? I'm not fat.

> > nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

> >

> >

> >

> > 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of

> yours:

> >

> > nada: you're TOO sensitive

> >

> >

> >

> > 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that

> it

> > ever happened.

> >

> > KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma

> and

> > Gramps next week!

> > Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

> >

> >

> >

> > 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for

> your

> > safety or well-being.

> >

> > Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you

> are

> > ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to

> get

> > hurt!)

> >

> > Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this

> is

> > SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with

> your

> > sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity,

> > invasively and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you

> from

> > embarrasing yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public!

> She is

> > trying to 'teach' you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

> >

> > There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives,

> too!!

> >

> > Love,

> > Charlie

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That makes sense as to why so much of that link relates.

Reading that link plus all the posts here really do validate me and help me

realize I am not making it up in my own head.

> > >

> > > oh, wow...yes, I've known nada has always covered up the abuse, and

> > twisted

> > > it around to seem like it never happened, or that *I* was the abuser

> > !! but

> > > these 5 points, and the examples really bring it home!! never ever

> > #1, but

> > > # 2,3,4 & 5 were very common !! # 5 is the exact thing she's said to

> > me on

> > > many occasions, and i did NOT wear revealing clothes !!

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what*

> > nada

> > > is doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel

> > it,

> > > she did it!

> > >

> > > 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite

> > > direction. Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your

> > > appearance, if you express insecurity about your appearance, nada will

> > say:

> > > 'I don't know why you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my

> > > friends, remark on what a stunning daughter I have.'

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if

> > you

> > > attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

> > >

> > > nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> > > KO: what? I'm not fat.

> > > nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of

> > yours:

> > >

> > > nada: you're TOO sensitive

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that

> > it

> > > ever happened.

> > >

> > > KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma

> > and

> > > Gramps next week!

> > > Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for

> > your

> > > safety or well-being.

> > >

> > > Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you

> > are

> > > ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to

> > get

> > > hurt!)

> > >

> > > Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this

> > is

> > > SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with

> > your

> > > sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity,

> > > invasively and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you

> > from

> > > embarrasing yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public!

> > She is

> > > trying to 'teach' you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

> > >

> > > There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives,

> > too!!

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > Charlie

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Adrienne, I'm so glad this helped you! I'm very much in processing mode

today, and wanting to do my civic duty as a KO! and hoping that my posts are

helping everyone.

Did you happen to see, awhile back, the posts on nada as a sexual abuser? It is

a devastating and unfortunate theme for some of us. Someone posted a link for

www.mdsa.org. Worth checking out. Although it may have been 'verbal', or

'indirect' or non-traditional or whatever else, the kindof treatment you

describe, over a lifetime, can in fact be experienced as sexual abuse. With all

the same effects. It is serious and grave. It is all that much harder because

we are disenfranchised--people will see us avoiding our mothers, but we aren't

able to truly tell them why, it is WAY to personal. So I hope that you will

continue to process it and heal successfully.

Best wishes,

Charlotte

> >

> > In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what* nada

is doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel it, she

did it!

> >

> > 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite

direction. Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your appearance,

if you express insecurity about your appearance, nada will say: 'I don't know

why you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my friends, remark on what

a stunning daughter I have.'

> >

> >

> >

> > 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if you

attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

> >

> > nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> > KO: what? I'm not fat.

> > nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

> >

> >

> >

> > 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of yours:

> >

> > nada: you're TOO sensitive

> >

> >

> >

> > 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that it

ever happened.

> >

> > KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma and

Gramps next week!

> > Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

> >

> >

> >

> > 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for your

safety or well-being.

> >

> > Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you are

ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to get hurt!)

> >

> > Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this is

SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with your

sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity, invasively

and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you from embarrasing

yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public! She is trying to 'teach'

you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

> >

> > There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives, too!!

> >

> > Love,

> > Charlie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You mean all that isn't normal?

>

> In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what* nada is

doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel it, she did

it!

>

> 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite direction.

Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your appearance, if you

express insecurity about your appearance, nada will say: 'I don't know why

you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my friends, remark on what a

stunning daughter I have.'

>

>

>

> 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if you

attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

>

> nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> KO: what? I'm not fat.

> nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

>

>

>

> 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of yours:

>

> nada: you're TOO sensitive

>

>

>

> 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that it ever

happened.

>

> KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma and

Gramps next week!

> Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

>

>

>

> 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for your

safety or well-being.

>

> Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you are

ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to get hurt!)

>

> Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this is

SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with your

sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity, invasively

and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you from embarrasing

yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public! She is trying to 'teach'

you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

>

> There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives, too!!

>

> Love,

> Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, charlotte. I appreciate you posting these. I did not see the post on

sexual abuse but will definitely check it out. Like you said, I didn't process

it as abuse until much later in life and am now able to begin the healing

process. My nada continually violated my personal boundaries and now because of

therapy and this group, I'm finally able to say " Enough! "

AJ

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: Top 5 Nada Masking-Techniques

Hi Adrienne, I'm so glad this helped you! I'm very much in processing mode

today, and wanting to do my civic duty as a KO! and hoping that my posts are

helping everyone.

Did you happen to see, awhile back, the posts on nada as a sexual abuser? It is

a devastating and unfortunate theme for some of us. Someone posted a link for

www.mdsa.org. Worth checking out. Although it may have been 'verbal', or

'indirect' or non-traditional or whatever else, the kindof treatment you

describe, over a lifetime, can in fact be experienced as sexual abuse. With all

the same effects. It is serious and grave. It is all that much harder because

we are disenfranchised--people will see us avoiding our mothers, but we aren't

able to truly tell them why, it is WAY to personal. So I hope that you will

continue to process it and heal successfully.

Best wishes,

Charlotte

> >

> > In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what* nada

is doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel it, she

did it!

> >

> > 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite

direction. Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your appearance,

if you express insecurity about your appearance, nada will say: 'I don't know

why you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my friends, remark on what

a stunning daughter I have.'

> >

> >

> >

> > 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if you

attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

> >

> > nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> > KO: what? I'm not fat.

> > nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

> >

> >

> >

> > 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of yours:

> >

> > nada: you're TOO sensitive

> >

> >

> >

> > 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that it

ever happened.

> >

> > KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma and

Gramps next week!

> > Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

> >

> >

> >

> > 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for your

safety or well-being.

> >

> > Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you are

ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to get hurt!)

> >

> > Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this is

SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with your

sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity, invasively

and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you from embarrasing

yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public! She is trying to 'teach'

you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

> >

> > There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives, too!!

> >

> > Love,

> > Charlie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Adrienne,

Amen! I don't know what I would do without the support and just EARS here. Of

people who don't say I'm nuts and unkind.

Same here, there are maybe 1 or 2 people I know who understand; my husband does

his best to understand but his upbringing was nothing like mine. He doesn't

fully get it. Don't know if he ever will.

Body parts...yes...my mother would say to me -- I can't believe I'm telling

anyone this b/c it's just wacky -- if I was sitting in a particular position,

like cross-legged on the floor, she'd say " this is how your vagina looks right

now. " And she'd put her mouth in a weird twisted way. It made me so

uncomfortable. Now i know why! It was inappropriate!!

> >

> > In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what* nada

is doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel it, she

did it!

> >

> > 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite

direction. Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your appearance,

if you express insecurity about your appearance, nada will say: 'I don't know

why you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my friends, remark on what

a stunning daughter I have.'

> >

> >

> >

> > 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if you

attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

> >

> > nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> > KO: what? I'm not fat.

> > nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

> >

> >

> >

> > 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of yours:

> >

> > nada: you're TOO sensitive

> >

> >

> >

> > 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that it

ever happened.

> >

> > KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma and

Gramps next week!

> > Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

> >

> >

> >

> > 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for your

safety or well-being.

> >

> > Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you are

ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to get hurt!)

> >

> > Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this is

SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with your

sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity, invasively

and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you from embarrasing

yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public! She is trying to 'teach'

you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

> >

> > There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives, too!!

> >

> > Love,

> > Charlie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I heard 'you are too sensitve' about a million times growing up. the main

problem for me was understanding my father's abuse of me. she would say 'he's

just trying to get a rise out of you' or something similar. I was absolutely,

literally, incapable of understanding why my father who was supposed to love me

as his child would want to have this interaction with me. Because if he wanted

to constantly 'get a rise out of me' or humiliate, torment, me, whatever, that

must have meant he didn't really like me at all. and if a father doesn't love

their child, why do they feel and why. I couldn't make heads or tails of it.

I remember reading once where an author talked about her mother admitting to her

that her father didn't like her. she asked her mother why, and her mother turned

to her and simply said, sadly, 'I don't know, he just doesn't.' I am sure that

kind of honesty is extremely rare. My mother, of course, couldn't ever admit to

herself that she married a man who not only did not like his own children

(because he was shame-based due to his own abuse) but in fact enjoyed hurting

them, so she made me nuts by telling me the problem was mine. I'm infuriated

now at how selfish this was of her. She preserved her fictional world at my

expense, and always will.

>

> In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what* nada is

doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel it, she did

it!

>

> 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite direction.

Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your appearance, if you

express insecurity about your appearance, nada will say: 'I don't know why

you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my friends, remark on what a

stunning daughter I have.'

>

>

>

> 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if you

attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

>

> nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> KO: what? I'm not fat.

> nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

>

>

>

> 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of yours:

>

> nada: you're TOO sensitive

>

>

>

> 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that it ever

happened.

>

> KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma and

Gramps next week!

> Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

>

>

>

> 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for your

safety or well-being.

>

> Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you are

ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to get hurt!)

>

> Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this is

SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with your

sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity, invasively

and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you from embarrasing

yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public! She is trying to 'teach'

you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

>

> There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives, too!!

>

> Love,

> Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

Jackie, Oh my gosh! The menopause thing. Every time you have a feeling that

she doesn't want to bother with, it must be the menopause! She even sais,

" Oh, it must be the male menopause. They have one too you know. "

>

> this is exactly what my nada does !!! right now, she thinks because I've

> had to put up stronger boundaries, that it's because of my hormones ( I'm 51

> and she thinks I'm going through menopause) she's even said " Oh, I know you

> dont mean that, it's just your hormones talking " !! sigh

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> Hi this topic reminds me of a link someone put up here awhile ago about

> NPD mothers. And and found it had alot of crossover with my BPD mum.

> Point number 6 on the link hit v close to home for me:

> She makes you look crazy. If you try to confront her about something

> she's done, she'll tell you that you have " a very vivid

> imagination " that you don't know what you're talking about,

> or that she has no idea what you're talking about.....Once she's

> constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, she'll

> tell others about them, as always, presenting her smears as expressions

> of concern and declaring her own helpless victimhood. She didn't do

> anything. She has no idea why you're so irrationally angry with her.

> You've hurt her terribly. She thinks you may need psychotherapy. She

> loves you very much and would do anything to make you happy, but she

> just doesn't know what to do. You keep pushing her away when all she

> wants to do is help you.

> http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

> <http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/>

>

> Nav

>

[Guest guest]

LOL of course, it has to be that...it couldn't POSSIBLY be her fault, you

know !!

Jackie

Jackie, Oh my gosh! The menopause thing. Every time you have a feeling

that she doesn't want to bother with, it must be the menopause! She even

sais, " Oh, it must be the male menopause. They have one too you know. "

[Guest guest]

It can go the other way too. I have a woman in my life who the family claims is

BP but I rarely see her and when I do she is nice to me, so I can take it in

small doses. You know nadas are always nicer to other people's children, well I

am the other child. This lady is nicer to me than my nada or my MIL so I will

take it gladly.

Anyway she came over for Christmas and spent the WHOLE night with my MIL who I

also think is BPD crying on my flipping sofa gripping about their husbands! I

was thinking what the heck! It is supposed to be a time of celebration! I was so

annoyed I just went in the other room with my kids and closed the door and

played toys all night long. But of course both women just blamed it on none

other than Menopause. I am just thinking Really? I have known one of the women

over 10 years and the other about 15 and neither of them has changed. Both have

unexpected rage and flip out for no apparent reason, pretty sure that's not

menopause. The one I have known longer never rages at me though thank god. I

have been walking on eggshells for years as has everyone around them! Good

grief!

Later Dh said something to my MIL about the behavior, and the other woman's son

also said something to her, but I know they will do it again. I don't care just

keep me out of it and stop flipping out at me!

> >

> > this is exactly what my nada does !!! right now, she thinks because I've

> > had to put up stronger boundaries, that it's because of my hormones ( I'm 51

> > and she thinks I'm going through menopause) she's even said " Oh, I know you

> > dont mean that, it's just your hormones talking " !! sigh

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi this topic reminds me of a link someone put up here awhile ago about

> > NPD mothers. And and found it had alot of crossover with my BPD mum.

> > Point number 6 on the link hit v close to home for me:

> > She makes you look crazy. If you try to confront her about something

> > she's done, she'll tell you that you have " a very vivid

> > imagination " that you don't know what you're talking about,

> > or that she has no idea what you're talking about.....Once she's

> > constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, she'll

> > tell others about them, as always, presenting her smears as expressions

> > of concern and declaring her own helpless victimhood. She didn't do

> > anything. She has no idea why you're so irrationally angry with her.

> > You've hurt her terribly. She thinks you may need psychotherapy. She

> > loves you very much and would do anything to make you happy, but she

> > just doesn't know what to do. You keep pushing her away when all she

> > wants to do is help you.

> > http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

> > <http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/>

> >

> > Nav

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This sounds so familiar (word for word sometimes)... ugh, creepy. Then again,

it's so wonderful (and horrible) to not be alone!

>

> In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what* nada is

doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel it, she did

it!

>

> 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite direction.

Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your appearance, if you

express insecurity about your appearance, nada will say: 'I don't know why

you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my friends, remark on what a

stunning daughter I have.'

>

>

>

> 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if you

attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

>

> nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> KO: what? I'm not fat.

> nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

>

>

>

> 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of yours:

>

> nada: you're TOO sensitive

>

>

>

> 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that it ever

happened.

>

> KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma and

Gramps next week!

> Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

>

>

>

> 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for your

safety or well-being.

>

> Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you are

ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to get hurt!)

>

> Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this is

SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with your

sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity, invasively

and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you from embarrasing

yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public! She is trying to 'teach'

you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

>

> There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives, too!!

>

> Love,

> Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

Oh transference and the BPD... my Nada, in the middle of her rages, would turn

at me and say, " you know what, this is *parent* abuse, and it's REAL, I could

leave you, like I left Tom (ex-stepdad) and your father, and look where thy are

now?! "

>

> oh, wow...yes, I've known nada has always covered up the abuse, and twisted

> it around to seem like it never happened, or that *I* was the abuser !! but

> these 5 points, and the examples really bring it home!! never ever #1, but

> # 2,3,4 & 5 were very common !! # 5 is the exact thing she's said to me on

> many occasions, and i did NOT wear revealing clothes !!

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what* nada

> is doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel it,

> she did it!

>

> 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite

> direction. Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your

> appearance, if you express insecurity about your appearance, nada will say:

> 'I don't know why you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my

> friends, remark on what a stunning daughter I have.'

>

>

>

> 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if you

> attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

>

> nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> KO: what? I'm not fat.

> nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

>

>

>

> 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of yours:

>

> nada: you're TOO sensitive

>

>

>

> 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that it

> ever happened.

>

> KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma and

> Gramps next week!

> Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

>

>

>

> 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for your

> safety or well-being.

>

> Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you are

> ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to get

> hurt!)

>

> Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this is

> SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with your

> sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity,

> invasively and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you from

> embarrasing yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public! She is

> trying to 'teach' you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

>

> There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives, too!!

>

> Love,

> Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

Holy cow...My mother told me I abused her so many times I lost count. Sometimes

she would make that snide little laugh, as if she was joking, and sometimes she

would say it in anger.

It was obnoxious to me. They are the ever-present victim.

I have a low tolerance for the whole victim syndrome because of my mother's

constant victimish behavior.

Re: Top 5 Nada Masking-Techniques

Oh transference and the BPD... my Nada, in the middle of her rages, would turn

at me and say, " you know what, this is *parent* abuse, and it's REAL, I could

leave you, like I left Tom (ex-stepdad) and your father, and look where thy are

now?! "

>

> oh, wow...yes, I've known nada has always covered up the abuse, and twisted

> it around to seem like it never happened, or that *I* was the abuser !! but

> these 5 points, and the examples really bring it home!! never ever #1, but

> # 2,3,4 & 5 were very common !! # 5 is the exact thing she's said to me on

> many occasions, and i did NOT wear revealing clothes !!

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> In furtherance to my other 'mask' post: ok. Now that we know *what* nada

> is doing, let's look at *how* she is doing it. Remember, if you feel it,

> she did it!

>

> 1. Follow-up the insult with an extreme compliment in the opposite

> direction. Example: though a lifelong theme may be denigrating your

> appearance, if you express insecurity about your appearance, nada will say:

> 'I don't know why you're so insecure...You are just stunning. All my

> friends, remark on what a stunning daughter I have.'

>

>

>

> 2. Project their cruely onto you, as a supposed character flaw, if you

> attempt to call them on the insult. Example:

>

> nada: you're eating AGAIN?

> KO: what? I'm not fat.

> nada: Oh, but you're VISCOUS! Why have you been so VISCOUS lately?

>

>

>

> 3. Attempt to mask the insult with a supposed 'character flaw' of yours:

>

> nada: you're TOO sensitive

>

>

>

> 4. Attempt to mask the insult with a post-insult lie, ie, denial that it

> ever happened.

>

> KO: I'm not trying to 'abandon' my family--I can't wait to see Gramma and

> Gramps next week!

> Nada: What? I NEVER SAID THAT! Why do you put words into my mouth?

>

>

>

> 5. Attempt to mask the insult by framing it in terms of concern for your

> safety or well-being.

>

> Ex: You're gonna poke your eye out with those scissors! (Insult: you are

> ridiculous and clumsy. Mask: I'm your mother and I don't want you to get

> hurt!)

>

> Ex: Be careful, you're gonna 'fall out of that dress'. (Insult: this is

> SEXUAL ABUSE. It means you are slutty, and that nada is obsessed with your

> sexual body parts and will remark on them at any given opportunity,

> invasively and humiliatingly. Disguise: She is trying to 'keep you from

> embarrasing yourself' by accidentally exposing yourself in public! She is

> trying to 'teach' you to be a sexually pure and 'good' daughter.)

>

> There we go!! & I am very interested in anyone else's top Fives, too!!

>

> Love,

> Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

Ours is blood sugar. As in, " Oh, your blood sugar is just off. You're not

actually offended at what I just did. "

Ack!

> >

> > this is exactly what my nada does !!! right now, she thinks because I've

> > had to put up stronger boundaries, that it's because of my hormones ( I'm 51

> > and she thinks I'm going through menopause) she's even said " Oh, I know you

> > dont mean that, it's just your hormones talking " !! sigh

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi this topic reminds me of a link someone put up here awhile ago about

> > NPD mothers. And and found it had alot of crossover with my BPD mum.

> > Point number 6 on the link hit v close to home for me:

> > She makes you look crazy. If you try to confront her about something

> > she's done, she'll tell you that you have " a very vivid

> > imagination " that you don't know what you're talking about,

> > or that she has no idea what you're talking about.....Once she's

> > constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, she'll

> > tell others about them, as always, presenting her smears as expressions

> > of concern and declaring her own helpless victimhood. She didn't do

> > anything. She has no idea why you're so irrationally angry with her.

> > You've hurt her terribly. She thinks you may need psychotherapy. She

> > loves you very much and would do anything to make you happy, but she

> > just doesn't know what to do. You keep pushing her away when all she

> > wants to do is help you.

> > http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

> > <http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/>

> >

> > Nav

> >

>

[Guest guest]

low blood sugar ?? oh, thats a new one !!

Jackie

Ours is blood sugar. As in, " Oh, your blood sugar is just off. You're not

actually offended at what I just did. "

Ack!