Guest guest Posted July 4, 2010 Report Share Posted July 4, 2010 Dear Doug, While I do dream, I can totally relate to the " just wanting to survive " feeling. I read survival books, got an advanced degree in physics, and am considering being a farmer, all because I just want guarantee my survival. Because survival feels so tenuous to me. > > > My wife and I were discussing our dreams, both now and as children. I had > an epiphany. I had no dreams as a child. I did not want to be something when > I grew up. I did not want to climb Everest, or be a sailor, or see the > sunset on Kilamanjaro. > > I wanted to survive. I wanted to go thru a day in which mom and dad did not > have a fight so verbally violent that I hid away, wondering when it would > get physical or fatal. ( Now that I understand how BP s will push your > buttons, and drive you to rage, I understand those fights better, but they > still terrified me. ) I wanted a place of peace and security. I NEVER had > it. > > When you simply hope to survive and not have your home and world destroyed, > you don t get the luxury of dreams. Most dreams don t come true, but we > dream them because they give us peace and hope and make us happy. > > I did not dream dreams. It is another of the terrible losses , to me , of > being a KO. Who knows how empty my life has been owing to that loss? > > So, am I alone in this? Or is this another aspect of the life that we all > suffered alone, and thought we were the only one, till we found that KO s > have so much in common, and we were not alone. > > Anxious to hear your stories as well. > > Doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Dear Doug: I always look forward to reading your interesting and thought-provoking posts. Dreams hmmm. My life was so devoid of affection or stimulation I escaped into nothing but dreams. By 11 years old, I would walk out to the two lane highway of our little city, and walk down the median, dreaming of the day I could actually get in a car and see that place in the rearview mirror. I could not wait to escape and get away. Alive. The other thing I learned early on was that the world " out there " was a more trusting and welcoming and kind place than where I was. I had no fear of the unknown, of taking risks, of going somewhere new. I always took far more risks (moving, trying things, entreprenurial ventures) than most. Probably because I never had any fear of losing what I had. I couldn't wait to lose what I had! Again, I'll come back to the adopted thing...I think my mind developed this way because I never, ever bonded with nada. Even though she adopted me as a 2-month old baby, I knew the difference between her and the womb I was hatched in. I was wary of her from day one and had to look outside for validation. I believe I would have died from emotional neglect if I hadn't done so. I think it may be much harder to detach, find separation, develop dreams if you are blood-related to a BPD. Anyway, Doug, it's not too late to find your dream. Do you have one? Warm regards, AwayFromBorderland > > My wife and I were discussing our dreams, both now and as children. I had an epiphany. I had no dreams as a child. I did not want to be something when I grew up. I did not want to climb Everest, or be a sailor, or see the sunset on Kilamanjaro. > > I wanted to survive. I wanted to go thru a day in which mom and dad did not have a fight so verbally violent that I hid away, wondering when it would get physical or fatal. ( Now that I understand how BP s will push your buttons, and drive you to rage, I understand those fights better, but they still terrified me. ) I wanted a place of peace and security. I NEVER had it. > > When you simply hope to survive and not have your home and world destroyed, you don t get the luxury of dreams. Most dreams don t come true, but we dream them because they give us peace and hope and make us happy. > > I did not dream dreams. It is another of the terrible losses , to me , of being a KO. Who knows how empty my life has been owing to that loss? > > So, am I alone in this? Or is this another aspect of the life that we all suffered alone, and thought we were the only one, till we found that KO s have so much in common, and we were not alone. > > Anxious to hear your stories as well. > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 you're not alone, Doug...I never thought I'd live to be an adult, I figured nada would kill me before then. I never had dreams, I never thought of being an adult, I never dreamed of what I wanted to do, or become...I agree, when all you can think about it surviving, you dont have time to dream :-( Jackie My wife and I were discussing our dreams, both now and as children. I had an epiphany. I had no dreams as a child. I did not want to be something when I grew up. I did not want to climb Everest, or be a sailor, or see the sunset on Kilamanjaro. I wanted to survive. I wanted to go thru a day in which mom and dad did not have a fight so verbally violent that I hid away, wondering when it would get physical or fatal. ( Now that I understand how BP s will push your buttons, and drive you to rage, I understand those fights better, but they still terrified me. ) I wanted a place of peace and security. I NEVER had it. When you simply hope to survive and not have your home and world destroyed, you don t get the luxury of dreams. Most dreams don t come true, but we dream them because they give us peace and hope and make us happy. I did not dream dreams. It is another of the terrible losses , to me , of being a KO. Who knows how empty my life has been owing to that loss? So, am I alone in this? Or is this another aspect of the life that we all suffered alone, and thought we were the only one, till we found that KO s have so much in common, and we were not alone. Anxious to hear your stories as well. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Interesting. I guess I never gave it much thought. But you're right, there are no hopes or dreams for the future. Just get through the day and be glad you survived. When I got married my husband talked about his dreams of doing this or that, going here or there. When he asked me what my dreams were, I drew a blank. I justified it by insisting I was a realist, I knew life could be tough and so I just went with the flow. Whatever I got, that's what I had. Hmmm. > > My wife and I were discussing our dreams, both now and as children. I had an epiphany. I had no dreams as a child. I did not want to be something when I grew up. I did not want to climb Everest, or be a sailor, or see the sunset on Kilamanjaro. > > I wanted to survive. I wanted to go thru a day in which mom and dad did not have a fight so verbally violent that I hid away, wondering when it would get physical or fatal. ( Now that I understand how BP s will push your buttons, and drive you to rage, I understand those fights better, but they still terrified me. ) I wanted a place of peace and security. I NEVER had it. > > When you simply hope to survive and not have your home and world destroyed, you don t get the luxury of dreams. Most dreams don t come true, but we dream them because they give us peace and hope and make us happy. > > I did not dream dreams. It is another of the terrible losses , to me , of being a KO. Who knows how empty my life has been owing to that loss? > > So, am I alone in this? Or is this another aspect of the life that we all suffered alone, and thought we were the only one, till we found that KO s have so much in common, and we were not alone. > > Anxious to hear your stories as well. > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Hi Doug, I can remember being *dreamy* as a child. I think that I needed to escape a lot and so I found a way to live in another realm. I used to simply have the dream of: I want horses, dogs, cats, and whatever other animal I liked. I couldn't really visualize any *real* future or anything that I wanted to do with my life. Basically my father ignored guiding us into anything or probing for anything we liked. I may have started photography in high school and thought I'd be a photographer (but he said no one made money at that); or wanted a horse barn. But none of these were practical and grounded. Sort of like clouds in the sky. My mother, the one who I think has some form of BPD would just say: Don't ever get married and don't have kids. It was because she was unhappy; so she figured that we (girls) would also be unhappy in the same situation. We never got any guidance, like I said, around how to shape our ideas into dreams, how to follow them. Except my brother; he was the *artist* and so he was always identified as such and held up that way. It's sad because I felt I had to do it all on my own; and I'm not in a good situation financially because I don't have a 'career'. I didn't have a good marriage (my ex pretty much derided my *dreams*) I always felt orphaned and resented when I saw other children guided or nourished in this way. Even if their parents over did it. ~patricia dreams My wife and I were discussing our dreams, both now and as children. I had an epiphany. I had no dreams as a child. I did not want to be something when I grew up. I did not want to climb Everest, or be a sailor, or see the sunset on Kilamanjaro. I wanted to survive. I wanted to go thru a day in which mom and dad did not have a fight so verbally violent that I hid away, wondering when it would get physical or fatal. ( Now that I understand how BP s will push your buttons, and drive you to rage, I understand those fights better, but they still terrified me. ) I wanted a place of peace and security. I NEVER had it. When you simply hope to survive and not have your home and world destroyed, you don t get the luxury of dreams. Most dreams don t come true, but we dream them because they give us peace and hope and make us happy. I did not dream dreams. It is another of the terrible losses , to me , of being a KO. Who knows how empty my life has been owing to that loss? So, am I alone in this? Or is this another aspect of the life that we all suffered alone, and thought we were the only one, till we found that KO s have so much in common, and we were not alone. Anxious to hear your stories as well. Doug ------------------------------------ Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 If you had asked me (as a little kid) what I wanted to be when I grew up, I would have said engineer because that's what Nada was. I was raised to have no dreams but hers. She dreamed about a rich husband, living in a big house with a white picket fence, becoming famous. Whatever... as long as it was about her. What I actually dreamed about was getting *out* so I read a lot of books about orphans, and I dreamed of running away and living on the streets (without Nada) if I had to. I don't remember exactly when I decided to dream of being something... probably mid-highschool when college had a physical presence and there was a push to buckle down and start figuring out your major. I tailored that to Nada's wishes as well... I'm really enjoying NC at 19. It means I might not be able to afford college (I'm really close... I just don't know if I'll always have money for groceries and utilities could throw me and I dare not miss a day of work, sick or not). It also means that she no longer has a say in what courses I take or how I shape my " scaffolding " (so-to-speak) for the grown-up world. In all honesty, I'll probably be working as a receptionist, secretary, or (if I get lucky) administrative assistant, but I at least can make, have, cling to a dream of my own =) **I WILL be a social worker some day... > > > > > > > My wife and I were discussing our dreams, both now and as children. I had > > an epiphany. I had no dreams as a child. I did not want to be something when > > I grew up. I did not want to climb Everest, or be a sailor, or see the > > sunset on Kilamanjaro. > > > > I wanted to survive. I wanted to go thru a day in which mom and dad did not > > have a fight so verbally violent that I hid away, wondering when it would > > get physical or fatal. ( Now that I understand how BP s will push your > > buttons, and drive you to rage, I understand those fights better, but they > > still terrified me. ) I wanted a place of peace and security. I NEVER had > > it. > > > > When you simply hope to survive and not have your home and world destroyed, > > you don t get the luxury of dreams. Most dreams don t come true, but we > > dream them because they give us peace and hope and make us happy. > > > > I did not dream dreams. It is another of the terrible losses , to me , of > > being a KO. Who knows how empty my life has been owing to that loss? > > > > So, am I alone in this? Or is this another aspect of the life that we all > > suffered alone, and thought we were the only one, till we found that KO s > > have so much in common, and we were not alone. > > > > Anxious to hear your stories as well. > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Wow AWB, Poignant. Interesting, 2 of the chapters in my book in progress deal with nada s pseudo adopting other kids and making thier own feel devalued, ( that includes you, as a truly adopted child you should have been made to feel as loved as if she did the biological chores. I speak from the heart here, my daughter in law was an adopted child, and as loved as ever any child could be. ) and the lack of bonding and security felt in KO children. I reacted somewhat differently, I craved security instead of being a risk taker. But oh, yea, baby, that rear view mirror. Now that was a dream. Now, at 54, dreams? I m not sure. I d like to be happy someday. And I want to finish my book on growing up as a KO. It has spawned a lot of other ideas for writing projects. I do enjoy using language, so perhaps it s not too late to become a writer. After all Grandma Moses was 80 before she began painting. Doug > > > > My wife and I were discussing our dreams, both now and as children. I had an epiphany. I had no dreams as a child. I did not want to be something when I grew up. I did not want to climb Everest, or be a sailor, or see the sunset on Kilamanjaro. > > > > I wanted to survive. I wanted to go thru a day in which mom and dad did not have a fight so verbally violent that I hid away, wondering when it would get physical or fatal. ( Now that I understand how BP s will push your buttons, and drive you to rage, I understand those fights better, but they still terrified me. ) I wanted a place of peace and security. I NEVER had it. > > > > When you simply hope to survive and not have your home and world destroyed, you don t get the luxury of dreams. Most dreams don t come true, but we dream them because they give us peace and hope and make us happy. > > > > I did not dream dreams. It is another of the terrible losses , to me , of being a KO. Who knows how empty my life has been owing to that loss? > > > > So, am I alone in this? Or is this another aspect of the life that we all suffered alone, and thought we were the only one, till we found that KO s have so much in common, and we were not alone. > > > > Anxious to hear your stories as well. > > > > Doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Having nada " adopt " other children was so upsetting to me because they become her " flying mokeys " later. This was the major arguement with my nada because her " adopted " daughter recently had a death in her family. My nada sent her flowers, went over her house, called her every day to make sure she was ok. When MY father in law died, I didn't get ANY of that! All my nada said was " well...after 2 weeks you really need to move on now! He wasn't Jesus of anything! " Horrible...... AJ Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: dreams Wow AWB, Poignant. Interesting, 2 of the chapters in my book in progress deal with nada s pseudo adopting other kids and making thier own feel devalued, ( that includes you, as a truly adopted child you should have been made to feel as loved as if she did the biological chores. I speak from the heart here, my daughter in law was an adopted child, and as loved as ever any child could be. ) and the lack of bonding and security felt in KO children. I reacted somewhat differently, I craved security instead of being a risk taker. But oh, yea, baby, that rear view mirror. Now that was a dream. Now, at 54, dreams? I m not sure. I d like to be happy someday. And I want to finish my book on growing up as a KO. It has spawned a lot of other ideas for writing projects. I do enjoy using language, so perhaps it s not too late to become a writer. After all Grandma Moses was 80 before she began painting. Doug > > > > My wife and I were discussing our dreams, both now and as children. I had an epiphany. I had no dreams as a child. I did not want to be something when I grew up. I did not want to climb Everest, or be a sailor, or see the sunset on Kilamanjaro. > > > > I wanted to survive. I wanted to go thru a day in which mom and dad did not have a fight so verbally violent that I hid away, wondering when it would get physical or fatal. ( Now that I understand how BP s will push your buttons, and drive you to rage, I understand those fights better, but they still terrified me. ) I wanted a place of peace and security. I NEVER had it. > > > > When you simply hope to survive and not have your home and world destroyed, you don t get the luxury of dreams. Most dreams don t come true, but we dream them because they give us peace and hope and make us happy. > > > > I did not dream dreams. It is another of the terrible losses , to me , of being a KO. Who knows how empty my life has been owing to that loss? > > > > So, am I alone in this? Or is this another aspect of the life that we all suffered alone, and thought we were the only one, till we found that KO s have so much in common, and we were not alone. > > > > Anxious to hear your stories as well. > > > > Doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2010 Report Share Posted July 9, 2010 yes, it is true there is always time enuf to have dreams i believe even if we only have them when we sleep or when we think about our lives.. i too was too scared to dream for myself while growing up except to survive long enuf to leave and be out on my own. then i found i was still extremely scared.  and my dream continued to be simply to survive. later with help i have learned to relish dreams of all kinds, some i only enjoy in my mind, others have come true for me.. i had a dream to achieve nourishing relationships and satisfying work.  those have come true for me today and i am grateful .. as for a bucket list.. well, how about winning the lottery?  not too likely but fun to think about. Subject: Re: dreams To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Monday, July 5, 2010, 9:12 AM  Dear Doug: I always look forward to reading your interesting and thought-provoking posts. Dreams hmmm. My life was so devoid of affection or stimulation I escaped into nothing but dreams. By 11 years old, I would walk out to the two lane highway of our little city, and walk down the median, dreaming of the day I could actually get in a car and see that place in the rearview mirror. I could not wait to escape and get away. Alive. The other thing I learned early on was that the world " out there " was a more trusting and welcoming and kind place than where I was. I had no fear of the unknown, of taking risks, of going somewhere new. I always took far more risks (moving, trying things, entreprenurial ventures) than most. Probably because I never had any fear of losing what I had. I couldn't wait to lose what I had! Again, I'll come back to the adopted thing...I think my mind developed this way because I never, ever bonded with nada. Even though she adopted me as a 2-month old baby, I knew the difference between her and the womb I was hatched in. I was wary of her from day one and had to look outside for validation. I believe I would have died from emotional neglect if I hadn't done so. I think it may be much harder to detach, find separation, develop dreams if you are blood-related to a BPD. Anyway, Doug, it's not too late to find your dream. Do you have one? Warm regards, AwayFromBorderland > > My wife and I were discussing our dreams, both now and as children. I had an epiphany. I had no dreams as a child. I did not want to be something when I grew up. I did not want to climb Everest, or be a sailor, or see the sunset on Kilamanjaro. > > I wanted to survive. I wanted to go thru a day in which mom and dad did not have a fight so verbally violent that I hid away, wondering when it would get physical or fatal. ( Now that I understand how BP s will push your buttons, and drive you to rage, I understand those fights better, but they still terrified me. ) I wanted a place of peace and security. I NEVER had it. > > When you simply hope to survive and not have your home and world destroyed, you don t get the luxury of dreams. Most dreams don t come true, but we dream them because they give us peace and hope and make us happy. > > I did not dream dreams. It is another of the terrible losses , to me , of being a KO. Who knows how empty my life has been owing to that loss? > > So, am I alone in this? Or is this another aspect of the life that we all suffered alone, and thought we were the only one, till we found that KO s have so much in common, and we were not alone. > > Anxious to hear your stories as well. > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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