Re: Anyone ever tried to get a court order to circumvent a parent with BPD? HELP

[Guest guest]

I have found that court orders involving BP s are hard to get, because

they do not come across as raving and can be quite rational and charming

on demand.

You might check bpdcentral.com for some books on dealing with them in

the system. For it to work you need an attorney and a judge who are

educated about BPD or willing to become so, or possibly a psychologist.

It is difficult because your dad is her next of kin and has legal

rights, despite his shaky ethical ground.

Perhaps you could get an agreement that the 2 Rabbis, but not your Dad,

could stand behind the curtain, silently, while you visit. That way they

can assure themselves that your mom is ok, your Dad can t be an asshole,

and she wont have to see them be there?

I would push back to that Rabbi. Wait a minute. Dishonoring my mother by

insisting on seeing her to say goodbye? Just because he is Father,

doesn t make him automatically right. Look at what Aachen caused to his

family after moved against AI. Look at how Saul caused the

destruction of his family.

And give me a break Rabbi. YOU come in with us while we visit, and you

can assure that we are nothing but respectful to Mom. But without Dad

in there.

Good luck

Doug

>

> I have been watching this blog for over a year but I had never felt

comfortable posting before. I probably have so much to share having a

textbook case of BPD father and a mother who was so weak that neither my

brother nor myself ever matterd to either of them. When my brother

introduced me to the book, " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " I could not

put the book down because I was amazed that someone else already wrote

my personal life story without even knowing who I was. The book was

mysteriously accurate that it could describe my " perfect " brother and my

weak mother/BPD spouse without ever having entered our dysfunctional

home.

> Despite a very painful upbringing with an abusive father and a mother

who just smiled and loved her place in society, my brother and I grew up

and achieved tremendous accomplishments professionally. I am a

CPA/MBA/Attorney with my own firm and my brother is an interventional

cardiologist. We became overachievers just to disprove to ourselves the

notion that we were instilled with by our parents of fractional self

worth and esteem.

> So now my mother is dying from mesothelioma. I have been in the

proverbial NC mode for several years. My brother has been NC with them

for the last year. There are only two siblings. She is literally wasting

away in the hospital with twenty five pounds of fluid in her chest and

insufficient protein within her body to let her let it drain. She might

make it another month or she may be dead by the time you read this

email. My father won't let us see her privately to say good-bye. She

allegedly has informed Rabbis orally and in writing that she doesn't

want to see us either. The reality of course is that my mother is

terrified to death of my father and is scared of him so much that after

so man years pf my BPD father who is only willing to let us see her if

he and his two friend Rabbis are present with us the entire time.

Neither my brother or myself have ever done anything in our entire lives

to endanger her or warrant this type of treatment.

> My father has leveraged her death to try to get everyone to consider

us villains. Neither have us have tried to visit her before because our

mother won't even talk to us when he is around and looks at us with

tremendous disdain in fear that if she even demonstrates an infintesimal

amount of love, she will be annihilated by him.

> I cannot tell you how painful it had been in the limited conversations

that my brother and I had with her whereby my mother tells me that she

has nothing to live for. I have four children, they are her

grandchildren - what have they done wrong to her? She says that other

than my father there is no reason to carry on. A year before that, my

mother excused my father's behavior by stating that because he is mad

about her illness that he DOES have the right to yell, ignore, and treat

me with condescension and disgust when I call to say Hello. Nobody else

believes me that this is real. I can't believe half of the time what I

have lived through. Why did God do this to me? is the question I ask

myself every day. The answer of course is to teach me that I must learn

to love myself because unfortunately my family won't.

>

> As my mother is dying, I feel that I have an obligation to say goodbye

and ask her for forgiveness, this is an obligation I would like to

fulfill to help bring closure to whatever she represented in my life. I

feel it is important to me for both personal reasons as well the

religious element of honoring one's parents despite how evil they have

been to me because I was raised to believe that it is an opprotunity to

honor God in the process.

>

> But my BPD father won't let us see her without having him and his

buddies be present. If he is present, then I don't stand a chance of

getting to see anything other than the facade of a woman who is scared

to death of demonstrating any emotion to anyone but him. It is pointless

and way too painful to say goodbye to her like that. I would like to

just say good-bye without him being present.

>

> My brother and I tried meeting with him and these two Rabbis this

evening. They won't let us see her without them present. My brother and

I went to the hospital while he was not there right after the meeting

and security would not let us through because they had a handwritten

note from my father not to let us see her. We called the police to

intervene. They could not do anything without a court order.

>

> The next step would be for me to obtain a court order so that my

brother and I could see my mother just once before she passes away and

tell her that we love her, ask for forgiveness (although quite frankly,

compared to my own kids, my brother and I were really just angels all

the time cuz we were both terrified of my dad belting us) and hope that

she will protect our families.

>

> A Rabbi I spoke with strongly recommended that I refrain from

increasing the drama of getting the court order to permit us to visit

her prviately. I would not use the court order and parade it in front of

my dad, but when my dad is not there at the hospital, the security staff

will allow us in when we have it. Rabbi says that it would cause stress

to my mother and that is dishonorable. But wait a second, who is that

again? The whole point was to see whether there may be a semblance of

virtue or of love to us when my BPD father is no around. Am I neither

worthy nor deserving of this?

>

> Dear members of this blog, have ANY of you ever tried to get a court

order in such a situation, does it work, is there an alternative? Please

share your thoughts and advice. No-one else can understand how unreal

this has been.

>

> I am grateful to all of you for your help, and I hope we all find the

strength to muster the strength within us to learn to love, value, and

cherish ourselves for who we are despite the devastation we have

experienced.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with Doug. Your best bet is to make an appeal to one or both Rabbis. I

would arrange a time that you and your brother could do this together and I

would prepare first. Going in, be careful and certain regarding what you will

say. You don't want to get into a defensive position and you do not want to be

heard making any statements that sound negative about your father. These men

are loyal to him and will only view this as evidence of whatever your father has

told them about you. Express only that what you desire is to each have a space

with your mother before her death in which you can offer her your love and

attempt to clear away the hurt that is between you. Explain only that it will

be difficult to do this with your father there because you (and your dad) know

that you aren't ready to do that with one another yet. Explain also that it is

important to you that this be a sacred time without any interruptions. You

don't have to say directly that your dad would interrupt.

The trouble with getting a court order in this event is that your father is her

next of kin, and is managing her care. He will explain to the judge that in

this capacity, he wishes to alleviate undue stress for your mother, and that the

two of you are a source of stress - perhaps made obvious by your estrangement.

The burden will be on you to prove otherwise, and contrary-wise - meaning that

you will want to show how your father is the source of abuse. If you don't have

domestic violence or other criminal or court records on him to back you, the

judge will not likely grant you a court order. (I have needed to get a

restraining order on my BP parent, and until such time as she actually came good

on her threats, was not able to do so.)

If all efforts are unsuccessful, I'd ask myself what was most important. Even

if you had to go into the situation with your father in the room (and I fully

understand if you feel it is too dangerous to do so), and knowing that your

mother could not/would not respond to you with openness or love or forgiveness

because he was there, I'd dig deep if I were able, and try to remember who the

situation was about. Death is frightening. Your mother is leaving the world.

Despite her not having been there to protect you, and the fact that she chose

your father over you (she was sick and codependent, obviously) you're expressing

a desire to bring closure to your relationship with her, and to give her that

closure now at the time of her death. For that alone, I would want to comfort

her and to tell her goodbye. I would go in without any expectation that she

receive me with forgiveness or even love. I would try to be loving and

forgiving. I would tell her that she was safe to go.

>

> I have been watching this blog for over a year but I had never felt

comfortable posting before. I probably have so much to share having a textbook

case of BPD father and a mother who was so weak that neither my brother nor

myself ever matterd to either of them. When my brother introduced me to the

book, " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " I could not put the book down because I

was amazed that someone else already wrote my personal life story without even

knowing who I was. The book was mysteriously accurate that it could describe my

" perfect " brother and my weak mother/BPD spouse without ever having entered our

dysfunctional home.

> Despite a very painful upbringing with an abusive father and a mother who just

smiled and loved her place in society, my brother and I grew up and achieved

tremendous accomplishments professionally. I am a CPA/MBA/Attorney with my own

firm and my brother is an interventional cardiologist. We became overachievers

just to disprove to ourselves the notion that we were instilled with by our

parents of fractional self worth and esteem.

> So now my mother is dying from mesothelioma. I have been in the proverbial NC

mode for several years. My brother has been NC with them for the last year.

There are only two siblings. She is literally wasting away in the hospital with

twenty five pounds of fluid in her chest and insufficient protein within her

body to let her let it drain. She might make it another month or she may be dead

by the time you read this email. My father won't let us see her privately to

say good-bye. She allegedly has informed Rabbis orally and in writing that she

doesn't want to see us either. The reality of course is that my mother is

terrified to death of my father and is scared of him so much that after so man

years pf my BPD father who is only willing to let us see her if he and his two

friend Rabbis are present with us the entire time. Neither my brother or myself

have ever done anything in our entire lives to endanger her or warrant this type

of treatment.

> My father has leveraged her death to try to get everyone to consider us

villains. Neither have us have tried to visit her before because our mother

won't even talk to us when he is around and looks at us with tremendous disdain

in fear that if she even demonstrates an infintesimal amount of love, she will

be annihilated by him.

> I cannot tell you how painful it had been in the limited conversations that my

brother and I had with her whereby my mother tells me that she has nothing to

live for. I have four children, they are her grandchildren - what have they done

wrong to her? She says that other than my father there is no reason to carry on.

A year before that, my mother excused my father's behavior by stating that

because he is mad about her illness that he DOES have the right to yell, ignore,

and treat me with condescension and disgust when I call to say Hello. Nobody

else believes me that this is real. I can't believe half of the time what I have

lived through. Why did God do this to me? is the question I ask myself every

day. The answer of course is to teach me that I must learn to love myself

because unfortunately my family won't.

>

> As my mother is dying, I feel that I have an obligation to say goodbye and ask

her for forgiveness, this is an obligation I would like to fulfill to help bring

closure to whatever she represented in my life. I feel it is important to me for

both personal reasons as well the religious element of honoring one's parents

despite how evil they have been to me because I was raised to believe that it is

an opprotunity to honor God in the process.

>

> But my BPD father won't let us see her without having him and his buddies be

present. If he is present, then I don't stand a chance of getting to see

anything other than the facade of a woman who is scared to death of

demonstrating any emotion to anyone but him. It is pointless and way too painful

to say goodbye to her like that. I would like to just say good-bye without him

being present.

>

> My brother and I tried meeting with him and these two Rabbis this evening.

They won't let us see her without them present. My brother and I went to the

hospital while he was not there right after the meeting and security would not

let us through because they had a handwritten note from my father not to let us

see her. We called the police to intervene. They could not do anything without a

court order.

>

> The next step would be for me to obtain a court order so that my brother and I

could see my mother just once before she passes away and tell her that we love

her, ask for forgiveness (although quite frankly, compared to my own kids, my

brother and I were really just angels all the time cuz we were both terrified of

my dad belting us) and hope that she will protect our families.

>

> A Rabbi I spoke with strongly recommended that I refrain from increasing the

drama of getting the court order to permit us to visit her prviately. I would

not use the court order and parade it in front of my dad, but when my dad is not

there at the hospital, the security staff will allow us in when we have it.

Rabbi says that it would cause stress to my mother and that is dishonorable. But

wait a second, who is that again? The whole point was to see whether there may

be a semblance of virtue or of love to us when my BPD father is no around. Am I

neither worthy nor deserving of this?

>

> Dear members of this blog, have ANY of you ever tried to get a court order in

such a situation, does it work, is there an alternative? Please share your

thoughts and advice. No-one else can understand how unreal this has been.

>

> I am grateful to all of you for your help, and I hope we all find the strength

to muster the strength within us to learn to love, value, and cherish ourselves

for who we are despite the devastation we have experienced.

>

[Guest guest]

and Doug,

Your advice is incredible, actually, because how you responded to my message

demonstrates how perfectly and precisely you get this situation. I won't bother

with the court order - seems futile at this point as my dad's charm is better

than our own. Two your olds are very good at charming others. I won't bother

with the Rabbis because neither of them have ever been able to assist. If and

when my mother will be willing to see us, we will go to say goodbye and bring

closure, whether he is there or not.

This just hurts so very much. I wish I knew how to get passed all of this.

This blog is priceless and I am grateful for your responses.

> >

> > I have been watching this blog for over a year but I had never felt

comfortable posting before. I probably have so much to share having a textbook

case of BPD father and a mother who was so weak that neither my brother nor

myself ever matterd to either of them. When my brother introduced me to the

book, " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " I could not put the book down because I

was amazed that someone else already wrote my personal life story without even

knowing who I was. The book was mysteriously accurate that it could describe my

" perfect " brother and my weak mother/BPD spouse without ever having entered our

dysfunctional home.

> > Despite a very painful upbringing with an abusive father and a mother who

just smiled and loved her place in society, my brother and I grew up and

achieved tremendous accomplishments professionally. I am a CPA/MBA/Attorney with

my own firm and my brother is an interventional cardiologist. We became

overachievers just to disprove to ourselves the notion that we were instilled

with by our parents of fractional self worth and esteem.

> > So now my mother is dying from mesothelioma. I have been in the proverbial

NC mode for several years. My brother has been NC with them for the last year.

There are only two siblings. She is literally wasting away in the hospital with

twenty five pounds of fluid in her chest and insufficient protein within her

body to let her let it drain. She might make it another month or she may be dead

by the time you read this email. My father won't let us see her privately to

say good-bye. She allegedly has informed Rabbis orally and in writing that she

doesn't want to see us either. The reality of course is that my mother is

terrified to death of my father and is scared of him so much that after so man

years pf my BPD father who is only willing to let us see her if he and his two

friend Rabbis are present with us the entire time. Neither my brother or myself

have ever done anything in our entire lives to endanger her or warrant this type

of treatment.

> > My father has leveraged her death to try to get everyone to consider us

villains. Neither have us have tried to visit her before because our mother

won't even talk to us when he is around and looks at us with tremendous disdain

in fear that if she even demonstrates an infintesimal amount of love, she will

be annihilated by him.

> > I cannot tell you how painful it had been in the limited conversations that

my brother and I had with her whereby my mother tells me that she has nothing to

live for. I have four children, they are her grandchildren - what have they done

wrong to her? She says that other than my father there is no reason to carry on.

A year before that, my mother excused my father's behavior by stating that

because he is mad about her illness that he DOES have the right to yell, ignore,

and treat me with condescension and disgust when I call to say Hello. Nobody

else believes me that this is real. I can't believe half of the time what I have

lived through. Why did God do this to me? is the question I ask myself every

day. The answer of course is to teach me that I must learn to love myself

because unfortunately my family won't.

> >

> > As my mother is dying, I feel that I have an obligation to say goodbye and

ask her for forgiveness, this is an obligation I would like to fulfill to help

bring closure to whatever she represented in my life. I feel it is important to

me for both personal reasons as well the religious element of honoring one's

parents despite how evil they have been to me because I was raised to believe

that it is an opprotunity to honor God in the process.

> >

> > But my BPD father won't let us see her without having him and his buddies be

present. If he is present, then I don't stand a chance of getting to see

anything other than the facade of a woman who is scared to death of

demonstrating any emotion to anyone but him. It is pointless and way too painful

to say goodbye to her like that. I would like to just say good-bye without him

being present.

> >

> > My brother and I tried meeting with him and these two Rabbis this evening.

They won't let us see her without them present. My brother and I went to the

hospital while he was not there right after the meeting and security would not

let us through because they had a handwritten note from my father not to let us

see her. We called the police to intervene. They could not do anything without a

court order.

> >

> > The next step would be for me to obtain a court order so that my brother and

I could see my mother just once before she passes away and tell her that we love

her, ask for forgiveness (although quite frankly, compared to my own kids, my

brother and I were really just angels all the time cuz we were both terrified of

my dad belting us) and hope that she will protect our families.

> >

> > A Rabbi I spoke with strongly recommended that I refrain from increasing the

drama of getting the court order to permit us to visit her prviately. I would

not use the court order and parade it in front of my dad, but when my dad is not

there at the hospital, the security staff will allow us in when we have it.

Rabbi says that it would cause stress to my mother and that is dishonorable. But

wait a second, who is that again? The whole point was to see whether there may

be a semblance of virtue or of love to us when my BPD father is no around. Am I

neither worthy nor deserving of this?

> >

> > Dear members of this blog, have ANY of you ever tried to get a court order

in such a situation, does it work, is there an alternative? Please share your

thoughts and advice. No-one else can understand how unreal this has been.

> >

> > I am grateful to all of you for your help, and I hope we all find the

strength to muster the strength within us to learn to love, value, and cherish

ourselves for who we are despite the devastation we have experienced.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The way we get past all this , my friend, is accepting uncomfortable

truth. We experience loss, not of our making , by being the child of a

Borderline. The loss is not just in the relationship, but in many areas

of our lives that they touch.

The following is an excerpt from a book I am writing about the effects

of Borderline parents on the children who live with it, and them.

The results, at best, are awful. At worst, we are left dysfunctional

and incapacitated. We grow up with no sense of self, or value, or

ability, except as it relates to them. Growing up with a Borderline mom

equals a lifetime of loss. It is an emptiness and lack of trust of

profound proportions. Most of us battle depression, anxiety, addictions,

or non-existent self-esteem. The effects in our lives are devastating.

It takes a very long time to heal. The sadness and loss are profound,

and at times, crippling. Often, in our brokenness, we perpetuate the

hurts and dysfunctions to our children. We find in ourselves the one

thing we swore we d never have: echoes of that brokenness.

Part of the healing is simply understanding the baffling things that

happened to us. It is coming to realize that for all the places inside

that were sucked dry, or never filled, it is truly possible to heal. It

is forgiving what was, accepting what is, and grasping hope for what may

still be. It is being able to trust God, to trust those who can and

will help us, and to risk asking for help. Ironically, few Borderlines

agree to do the hard work of therapy and get well. But we, their

children, almost all need it to heal.

What you are living through now is part of your loss. We can get

through it. But it takes time, and help, and grieving all these losses.

Don t try to do it alone.

Doug

> > >

> > > I have been watching this blog for over a year but I had never

felt comfortable posting before. I probably have so much to share having

a textbook case of BPD father and a mother who was so weak that neither

my brother nor myself ever matterd to either of them. When my brother

introduced me to the book, " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " I could not

put the book down because I was amazed that someone else already wrote

my personal life story without even knowing who I was. The book was

mysteriously accurate that it could describe my " perfect " brother and my

weak mother/BPD spouse without ever having entered our dysfunctional

home.

> > > Despite a very painful upbringing with an abusive father and a

mother who just smiled and loved her place in society, my brother and I

grew up and achieved tremendous accomplishments professionally. I am a

CPA/MBA/Attorney with my own firm and my brother is an interventional

cardiologist. We became overachievers just to disprove to ourselves the

notion that we were instilled with by our parents of fractional self

worth and esteem.

> > > So now my mother is dying from mesothelioma. I have been in the

proverbial NC mode for several years. My brother has been NC with them

for the last year. There are only two siblings. She is literally wasting

away in the hospital with twenty five pounds of fluid in her chest and

insufficient protein within her body to let her let it drain. She might

make it another month or she may be dead by the time you read this

email. My father won't let us see her privately to say good-bye. She

allegedly has informed Rabbis orally and in writing that she doesn't

want to see us either. The reality of course is that my mother is

terrified to death of my father and is scared of him so much that after

so man years pf my BPD father who is only willing to let us see her if

he and his two friend Rabbis are present with us the entire time.

Neither my brother or myself have ever done anything in our entire lives

to endanger her or warrant this type of treatment.

> > > My father has leveraged her death to try to get everyone to

consider us villains. Neither have us have tried to visit her before

because our mother won't even talk to us when he is around and looks at

us with tremendous disdain in fear that if she even demonstrates an

infintesimal amount of love, she will be annihilated by him.

> > > I cannot tell you how painful it had been in the limited

conversations that my brother and I had with her whereby my mother tells

me that she has nothing to live for. I have four children, they are her

grandchildren - what have they done wrong to her? She says that other

than my father there is no reason to carry on. A year before that, my

mother excused my father's behavior by stating that because he is mad

about her illness that he DOES have the right to yell, ignore, and treat

me with condescension and disgust when I call to say Hello. Nobody else

believes me that this is real. I can't believe half of the time what I

have lived through. Why did God do this to me? is the question I ask

myself every day. The answer of course is to teach me that I must learn

to love myself because unfortunately my family won't.

> > >

> > > As my mother is dying, I feel that I have an obligation to say

goodbye and ask her for forgiveness, this is an obligation I would like

to fulfill to help bring closure to whatever she represented in my life.

I feel it is important to me for both personal reasons as well the

religious element of honoring one's parents despite how evil they have

been to me because I was raised to believe that it is an opprotunity to

honor God in the process.

> > >

> > > But my BPD father won't let us see her without having him and his

buddies be present. If he is present, then I don't stand a chance of

getting to see anything other than the facade of a woman who is scared

to death of demonstrating any emotion to anyone but him. It is pointless

and way too painful to say goodbye to her like that. I would like to

just say good-bye without him being present.

> > >

> > > My brother and I tried meeting with him and these two Rabbis this

evening. They won't let us see her without them present. My brother and

I went to the hospital while he was not there right after the meeting

and security would not let us through because they had a handwritten

note from my father not to let us see her. We called the police to

intervene. They could not do anything without a court order.

> > >

> > > The next step would be for me to obtain a court order so that my

brother and I could see my mother just once before she passes away and

tell her that we love her, ask for forgiveness (although quite frankly,

compared to my own kids, my brother and I were really just angels all

the time cuz we were both terrified of my dad belting us) and hope that

she will protect our families.

> > >

> > > A Rabbi I spoke with strongly recommended that I refrain from

increasing the drama of getting the court order to permit us to visit

her prviately. I would not use the court order and parade it in front of

my dad, but when my dad is not there at the hospital, the security staff

will allow us in when we have it. Rabbi says that it would cause stress

to my mother and that is dishonorable. But wait a second, who is that

again? The whole point was to see whether there may be a semblance of

virtue or of love to us when my BPD father is no around. Am I neither

worthy nor deserving of this?

> > >

> > > Dear members of this blog, have ANY of you ever tried to get a

court order in such a situation, does it work, is there an alternative?

Please share your thoughts and advice. No-one else can understand how

unreal this has been.

> > >

> > > I am grateful to all of you for your help, and I hope we all find

the strength to muster the strength within us to learn to love, value,

and cherish ourselves for who we are despite the devastation we have

experienced.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

A thought - there are two people you might be able to talk with about this - one

would be the hospital's social worker, and the other would be the rabbi or other

clergy " on call " at the hospital. Actually, a third person - your own rabbi, if

you have one. None of these folks will be able to circumvent your dad's

instructions, but they might be able to talk with the other two rabbis, and

they'd certainly give you a fairer hearing than your dad's assembled " troop. "

If all else fails - the chapel at a hospital is open all hours, usually. You

and your brother cannot be prevented from going there, in the same building. If

she's in the ICU, there's usually a family waiting area, and you could go there

- but your father might make a scene. He's less likely to do so (and need not

know you're present) if you go to the chapel. It doesn't get you into the room

with your mom, but you'd be close by - and prayers, or energy, or meditation,

can be sent to her, if you believe in that. You'd also be with your brother

(good for both of you) at this important moment in your lives.

>

> I have been watching this blog for over a year but I had never felt

comfortable posting before. I probably have so much to share having a textbook

case of BPD father and a mother who was so weak that neither my brother nor

myself ever matterd to either of them. When my brother introduced me to the

book, " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " I could not put the book down because I

was amazed that someone else already wrote my personal life story without even

knowing who I was. The book was mysteriously accurate that it could describe my

" perfect " brother and my weak mother/BPD spouse without ever having entered our

dysfunctional home.

> Despite a very painful upbringing with an abusive father and a mother who just

smiled and loved her place in society, my brother and I grew up and achieved

tremendous accomplishments professionally. I am a CPA/MBA/Attorney with my own

firm and my brother is an interventional cardiologist. We became overachievers

just to disprove to ourselves the notion that we were instilled with by our

parents of fractional self worth and esteem.

> So now my mother is dying from mesothelioma. I have been in the proverbial NC

mode for several years. My brother has been NC with them for the last year.

There are only two siblings. She is literally wasting away in the hospital with

twenty five pounds of fluid in her chest and insufficient protein within her

body to let her let it drain. She might make it another month or she may be dead

by the time you read this email. My father won't let us see her privately to

say good-bye. She allegedly has informed Rabbis orally and in writing that she

doesn't want to see us either. The reality of course is that my mother is

terrified to death of my father and is scared of him so much that after so man

years pf my BPD father who is only willing to let us see her if he and his two

friend Rabbis are present with us the entire time. Neither my brother or myself

have ever done anything in our entire lives to endanger her or warrant this type

of treatment.

> My father has leveraged her death to try to get everyone to consider us

villains. Neither have us have tried to visit her before because our mother

won't even talk to us when he is around and looks at us with tremendous disdain

in fear that if she even demonstrates an infintesimal amount of love, she will

be annihilated by him.

> I cannot tell you how painful it had been in the limited conversations that my

brother and I had with her whereby my mother tells me that she has nothing to

live for. I have four children, they are her grandchildren - what have they done

wrong to her? She says that other than my father there is no reason to carry on.

A year before that, my mother excused my father's behavior by stating that

because he is mad about her illness that he DOES have the right to yell, ignore,

and treat me with condescension and disgust when I call to say Hello. Nobody

else believes me that this is real. I can't believe half of the time what I have

lived through. Why did God do this to me? is the question I ask myself every

day. The answer of course is to teach me that I must learn to love myself

because unfortunately my family won't.

>

> As my mother is dying, I feel that I have an obligation to say goodbye and ask

her for forgiveness, this is an obligation I would like to fulfill to help bring

closure to whatever she represented in my life. I feel it is important to me for

both personal reasons as well the religious element of honoring one's parents

despite how evil they have been to me because I was raised to believe that it is

an opprotunity to honor God in the process.

>

> But my BPD father won't let us see her without having him and his buddies be

present. If he is present, then I don't stand a chance of getting to see

anything other than the facade of a woman who is scared to death of

demonstrating any emotion to anyone but him. It is pointless and way too painful

to say goodbye to her like that. I would like to just say good-bye without him

being present.

>

> My brother and I tried meeting with him and these two Rabbis this evening.

They won't let us see her without them present. My brother and I went to the

hospital while he was not there right after the meeting and security would not

let us through because they had a handwritten note from my father not to let us

see her. We called the police to intervene. They could not do anything without a

court order.

>

> The next step would be for me to obtain a court order so that my brother and I

could see my mother just once before she passes away and tell her that we love

her, ask for forgiveness (although quite frankly, compared to my own kids, my

brother and I were really just angels all the time cuz we were both terrified of

my dad belting us) and hope that she will protect our families.

>

> A Rabbi I spoke with strongly recommended that I refrain from increasing the

drama of getting the court order to permit us to visit her prviately. I would

not use the court order and parade it in front of my dad, but when my dad is not

there at the hospital, the security staff will allow us in when we have it.

Rabbi says that it would cause stress to my mother and that is dishonorable. But

wait a second, who is that again? The whole point was to see whether there may

be a semblance of virtue or of love to us when my BPD father is no around. Am I

neither worthy nor deserving of this?

>

> Dear members of this blog, have ANY of you ever tried to get a court order in

such a situation, does it work, is there an alternative? Please share your

thoughts and advice. No-one else can understand how unreal this has been.

>

> I am grateful to all of you for your help, and I hope we all find the strength

to muster the strength within us to learn to love, value, and cherish ourselves

for who we are despite the devastation we have experienced.

>

[Guest guest]

You took the words out of my mouth- I was going to suggest a

roundabout way. Hospitals all have visiting hours but that doesn't

mean you can't get in after hours. If you talk to the case manager - a

social worker - overseeing your mother's stay, she (it seems they are

always women, at least in my experience) will get what you have told

us. They've heard it all.

You could be let in after hours for a visit - you could tell them you

are agreeable to having the social worker or a nurse sit in with you

while you tell your mother goodbye.

If the case manager can't help you I would go straight to the

administrator. I am sure these hospital workers will have compassion,

which frankly I am appalled that the rabbis don't have.

Em

Sent from my blueberry.

On Jul 15, 2010, at 10:53 AM, " shirleyspawn "

wrote:

> A thought - there are two people you might be able to talk with

> about this - one would be the hospital's social worker, and the

> other would be the rabbi or other clergy " on call " at the hospital.

> Actually, a third person - your own rabbi, if you have one. None of

> these folks will be able to circumvent your dad's instructions, but

> they might be able to talk with the other two rabbis, and they'd

> certainly give you a fairer hearing than your dad's assembled " troop. "

>

> If all else fails - the chapel at a hospital is open all hours,

> usually. You and your brother cannot be prevented from going there,

> in the same building. If she's in the ICU, there's usually a family

> waiting area, and you could go there - but your father might make a

> scene. He's less likely to do so (and need not know you're present)

> if you go to the chapel. It doesn't get you into the room with your

> mom, but you'd be close by - and prayers, or energy, or meditation,

> can be sent to her, if you believe in that. You'd also be with your

> brother (good for both of you) at this important moment in your lives.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I have been watching this blog for over a year but I had never

> felt comfortable posting before. I probably have so much to share

> having a textbook case of BPD father and a mother who was so weak

> that neither my brother nor myself ever matterd to either of them.

> When my brother introduced me to the book, " Surviving a Borderline

> Parent, " I could not put the book down because I was amazed that

> someone else already wrote my personal life story without even

> knowing who I was. The book was mysteriously accurate that it could

> describe my " perfect " brother and my weak mother/BPD spouse without

> ever having entered our dysfunctional home.

> > Despite a very painful upbringing with an abusive father and a

> mother who just smiled and loved her place in society, my brother

> and I grew up and achieved tremendous accomplishments

> professionally. I am a CPA/MBA/Attorney with my own firm and my

> brother is an interventional cardiologist. We became overachievers

> just to disprove to ourselves the notion that we were instilled with

> by our parents of fractional self worth and esteem.

> > So now my mother is dying from mesothelioma. I have been in the

> proverbial NC mode for several years. My brother has been NC with

> them for the last year. There are only two siblings. She is

> literally wasting away in the hospital with twenty five pounds of

> fluid in her chest and insufficient protein within her body to let

> her let it drain. She might make it another month or she may be dead

> by the time you read this email. My father won't let us see her

> privately to say good-bye. She allegedly has informed Rabbis orally

> and in writing that she doesn't want to see us either. The reality

> of course is that my mother is terrified to death of my father and

> is scared of him so much that after so man years pf my BPD father

> who is only willing to let us see her if he and his two friend

> Rabbis are present with us the entire time. Neither my brother or

> myself have ever done anything in our entire lives to endanger her

> or warrant this type of treatment.

> > My father has leveraged her death to try to get everyone to

> consider us villains. Neither have us have tried to visit her before

> because our mother won't even talk to us when he is around and looks

> at us with tremendous disdain in fear that if she even demonstrates

> an infintesimal amount of love, she will be annihilated by him.

> > I cannot tell you how painful it had been in the limited

> conversations that my brother and I had with her whereby my mother

> tells me that she has nothing to live for. I have four children,

> they are her grandchildren - what have they done wrong to her? She

> says that other than my father there is no reason to carry on. A

> year before that, my mother excused my father's behavior by stating

> that because he is mad about her illness that he DOES have the right

> to yell, ignore, and treat me with condescension and disgust when I

> call to say Hello. Nobody else believes me that this is real. I

> can't believe half of the time what I have lived through. Why did

> God do this to me? is the question I ask myself every day. The

> answer of course is to teach me that I must learn to love myself

> because unfortunately my family won't.

> >

> > As my mother is dying, I feel that I have an obligation to say

> goodbye and ask her for forgiveness, this is an obligation I would

> like to fulfill to help bring closure to whatever she represented in

> my life. I feel it is important to me for both personal reasons as

> well the religious element of honoring one's parents despite how

> evil they have been to me because I was raised to believe that it is

> an opprotunity to honor God in the process.

> >

> > But my BPD father won't let us see her without having him and his

> buddies be present. If he is present, then I don't stand a chance of

> getting to see anything other than the facade of a woman who is

> scared to death of demonstrating any emotion to anyone but him. It

> is pointless and way too painful to say goodbye to her like that. I

> would like to just say good-bye without him being present.

> >

> > My brother and I tried meeting with him and these two Rabbis this

> evening. They won't let us see her without them present. My brother

> and I went to the hospital while he was not there right after the

> meeting and security would not let us through because they had a

> handwritten note from my father not to let us see her. We called the

> police to intervene. They could not do anything without a court order.

> >

> > The next step would be for me to obtain a court order so that my

> brother and I could see my mother just once before she passes away

> and tell her that we love her, ask for forgiveness (although quite

> frankly, compared to my own kids, my brother and I were really just

> angels all the time cuz we were both terrified of my dad belting us)

> and hope that she will protect our families.

> >

> > A Rabbi I spoke with strongly recommended that I refrain from

> increasing the drama of getting the court order to permit us to

> visit her prviately. I would not use the court order and parade it

> in front of my dad, but when my dad is not there at the hospital,

> the security staff will allow us in when we have it. Rabbi says that

> it would cause stress to my mother and that is dishonorable. But

> wait a second, who is that again? The whole point was to see whether

> there may be a semblance of virtue or of love to us when my BPD

> father is no around. Am I neither worthy nor deserving of this?

> >

> > Dear members of this blog, have ANY of you ever tried to get a

> court order in such a situation, does it work, is there an

> alternative? Please share your thoughts and advice. No-one else can

> understand how unreal this has been.

> >

> > I am grateful to all of you for your help, and I hope we all find

> the strength to muster the strength within us to learn to love,

> value, and cherish ourselves for who we are despite the devastation

> we have experienced.

> >

>

>