Re: Re: Being suicdal versus manipulation

[Guest guest]

Doug, It all sounds so familiar...everything you write. When my mother realized

I wasn't cowing down to her suicidality (and believe me, it took YEARS for me to

get the point of calling her bluff), then she used other manipulations and just

upped her drama every chance she could.

I think her suicidality affected me more as a teen and young adult than as a

small child. Maybe I just didn't notice as a child or maybe I didn't understand.

It was crazy-making and truly gave ME the option that suicide was an answer to

problems. It took me a good amount of therapy to realize this wasn't the true.

Re: Being suicdal versus manipulation

Oh Yes,

I have often thought, and prayed, that if I were growing up now and not

in the 60s, they would have gotten me the hell out of there.

Nada used suicidal ideations ( this is what you are describing, not

actual attempts, but speaking of it in such a way as to arouse concern)

and faked attempts for most of my life to manipulate me into saying I

love you please don t die.

She would be passed out from crying , or faking it, when I came in from

school. As soon as I came to check on her and try to wake her up, the

games began. The hysterical crying, running screaming for the kitchen

to get knives or nerve pills and start the process of " trying to kill

herself " , with her 14 year old son in hot pursuit to wrest the

offending items from her hand while she screamed and cried nobody loves

me, puncuated with the most vile and vulgar explitives she could muster.

It damaged me severely, and made it forever hard to actually say I love

you, because the words had been ripped from me in such an emotionally

violent way so many times. I finally concluded that she was too

narcissistic to ever actually harm herself. Finally, in her late 60s

she pulled that routine in her Dr s office, weeping and saying I m just

in such misery I d be better off dead. Nurse called in Dr, Dr got on

phone with psychiatrist, and both of them insisted she go to the psych

hospital for observation, or they would have a deputy sheriff come and

take her for a 24 hour observation.

She railed against them for the rest of her life as being mean. But she

never , ever, again used suicidal ideations.

The conventional wisdom is always take suicide threats seriously.

However, it is important that they not be able to use it against you as

a manipulation tool.

Some possible scripts for you

Nada If you do xyz, I just can t take it. I ll kill myself.

You, Mom, I love you and I really hope you won t kill yourself. But xyz

is my decision and it is my life and I will not let you control what I

do like that. I m going to do what I want to do, and what you decide to

do is your decision, not mine.

Nada If you don t drop everything and come over here, I just might take

all my pills and die.

You Mom , you know I can t come now, and you know why. But your

suicide threat does concern me. I m calling 911 right now and having the

police sent.

Nada I told you before if you move out I ll kill myself, I can t live

without you.

You Mom I m calling your Dr right now to tell him what you are saying.

I m going to ask him to have you committed for suicide watch. But I m

still moving out. If you choose to kill yourself, no one can stop you

forever. I ll be sad, but don t try to make it my fault. It s not.

Remember, most serious suicides dont make a major announcement and give

you the note to read first. The make the attempt when you leave for

work, not just as you get home. Sometimes they try it to make you

notice them, not intending it to succeed, and it does by mistake.

None of this is your fault. You have to put responsibility for her

actions exactly where they belong, on her.

Doug

>

>

> I would love to see a discussion about this because my mother had been

so suicidal my entire life. No real attempts besides the dramatic

running into the bedroom with a loaded gun for everyone in the family to

see and my dad rescuing her.

>

> This behavior my mother had shaped me in so many ways. It made me

fearful, anxious, angry, and depressed. I was constantly worried (as a

little girl) that I'd come home and find my mother dead.

>

> At some point, it clicked with me that she wasn't going to do it --

although it was in the back of my mind, I decided I would not be

responsible for it.

>

> I think my mother was somewhat suicidal. I think she was so

overwhelmed with her emotions and depression that she wanted to do it so

she said it. But I also think it was a huge manipulation trip with her.

>

> I once found a suicide note she had written (obviously didn't follow

through with) and it basically said, " Nobody cares if I live or die " and

called me, my sister, and my dad's names specifically. It also makes me

really angry at my father for sitting by and doing NOTHING when my

mother did these things -- not even so much as taking me aside and

talking to tell me it wasn't my fault. In fact, he would tell me to do

whatever she said to keep peace because it made things harder on HIM

when I didn't keep peace.

>

> How many of you felt this burden as kids? And how many of you feel

your parents weren't truly suicidal but were doing it to manipulate

other family members?

> My mother made no secret of her being suicidal. My father made no

attempts to get her help.

>

> I do believe if it was this day in time and not back in the 80's, CPS

may have intervened.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

doug, my heart goes out to you.. no wonder the words 'i love you' are difficult

for you.. what awful experiences to have endured with your nada.

i am grateful for your suggestions and for what can be done for people who

threaten suicide this way, as a way to get attention as well as expressing their

pain.. calling 911 when necessary and placing the responsibility where it

belongs are the way to go in my opinion also.thanks and may we all heal,ann

Subject: Re: Being suicdal versus manipulation

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 10:24 AM

 

Oh Yes,

I have often thought, and prayed, that if I were growing up now and not

in the 60s, they would have gotten me the hell out of there.

Nada used suicidal ideations ( this is what you are describing, not

actual attempts, but speaking of it in such a way as to arouse concern)

and faked attempts for most of my life to manipulate me into saying I

love you please don t die.

She would be passed out from crying , or faking it, when I came in from

school. As soon as I came to check on her and try to wake her up, the

games began. The hysterical crying, running screaming for the kitchen

to get knives or nerve pills and start the process of " trying to kill

herself " , with her 14 year old son in hot pursuit to wrest the

offending items from her hand while she screamed and cried nobody loves

me, puncuated with the most vile and vulgar explitives she could muster.

It damaged me severely, and made it forever hard to actually say I love

you, because the words had been ripped from me in such an emotionally

violent way so many times. I finally concluded that she was too

narcissistic to ever actually harm herself. Finally, in her late 60s

she pulled that routine in her Dr s office, weeping and saying I m just

in such misery I d be better off dead. Nurse called in Dr, Dr got on

phone with psychiatrist, and both of them insisted she go to the psych

hospital for observation, or they would have a deputy sheriff come and

take her for a 24 hour observation.

She railed against them for the rest of her life as being mean. But she

never , ever, again used suicidal ideations.

The conventional wisdom is always take suicide threats seriously.

However, it is important that they not be able to use it against you as

a manipulation tool.

Some possible scripts for you

Nada If you do xyz, I just can t take it. I ll kill myself.

You, Mom, I love you and I really hope you won t kill yourself. But xyz

is my decision and it is my life and I will not let you control what I

do like that. I m going to do what I want to do, and what you decide to

do is your decision, not mine.

Nada If you don t drop everything and come over here, I just might take

all my pills and die.

You Mom , you know I can t come now, and you know why. But your

suicide threat does concern me. I m calling 911 right now and having the

police sent.

Nada I told you before if you move out I ll kill myself, I can t live

without you.

You Mom I m calling your Dr right now to tell him what you are saying.

I m going to ask him to have you committed for suicide watch. But I m

still moving out. If you choose to kill yourself, no one can stop you

forever. I ll be sad, but don t try to make it my fault. It s not.

Remember, most serious suicides dont make a major announcement and give

you the note to read first. The make the attempt when you leave for

work, not just as you get home. Sometimes they try it to make you

notice them, not intending it to succeed, and it does by mistake.

None of this is your fault. You have to put responsibility for her

actions exactly where they belong, on her.

Doug

>

>

> I would love to see a discussion about this because my mother had been

so suicidal my entire life. No real attempts besides the dramatic

running into the bedroom with a loaded gun for everyone in the family to

see and my dad rescuing her.

>

> This behavior my mother had shaped me in so many ways. It made me

fearful, anxious, angry, and depressed. I was constantly worried (as a

little girl) that I'd come home and find my mother dead.

>

> At some point, it clicked with me that she wasn't going to do it --

although it was in the back of my mind, I decided I would not be

responsible for it.

>

> I think my mother was somewhat suicidal. I think she was so

overwhelmed with her emotions and depression that she wanted to do it so

she said it. But I also think it was a huge manipulation trip with her.

>

> I once found a suicide note she had written (obviously didn't follow

through with) and it basically said, " Nobody cares if I live or die " and

called me, my sister, and my dad's names specifically. It also makes me

really angry at my father for sitting by and doing NOTHING when my

mother did these things -- not even so much as taking me aside and

talking to tell me it wasn't my fault. In fact, he would tell me to do

whatever she said to keep peace because it made things harder on HIM

when I didn't keep peace.

>

> How many of you felt this burden as kids? And how many of you feel

your parents weren't truly suicidal but were doing it to manipulate

other family members?

> My mother made no secret of her being suicidal. My father made no

attempts to get her help.

>

> I do believe if it was this day in time and not back in the 80's, CPS

may have intervened.

>

>

>

>

>