Guest guest Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 There's something so intensely sacred about mothers that no matter how badly they behave, we're supposed to love them without question. That carries over to the movies. There are very few exceptions. What was that one movie? Sybil? That was horrible and I'm still a bit traumatized by watching that. More recently was Precious. That was too horrible for me to finish watching. But overall people want a happy ending as you mentioned and motherhood is protected, more than children in the media. > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 I loved Precious because the woman wanted so much to improve her life. I really wanted to see more about what happened to her. Such a sad and yet strangely strong movie. Re: sappy hollywood crap There's something so intensely sacred about mothers that no matter how badly they behave, we're supposed to love them without question. That carries over to the movies. There are very few exceptions. What was that one movie? Sybil? That was horrible and I'm still a bit traumatized by watching that. More recently was Precious. That was too horrible for me to finish watching. But overall people want a happy ending as you mentioned and motherhood is protected, more than children in the media. > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 , You and I must be watching the same channels! I've noticed this too and actually talked about it in therapy this week. It's soooo infuriating for all the reasons you've mentioned. I also feel like it gives us false hope and allows us to put ourselves in precarious situations with justification. I recently told a close college friend about my plans to go NC and she couldn't get over the idea that a mother would do those kinds of things or not change when things get bad. She finally understood when she compared the situation to our equally crazy college housemate. I'm glad she finally came around but I also realize, she can't even begin to comprehend that type of behavior in relation to a family member. Sigh. > > > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 " There's something so intensely sacred about mothers that no matter how badly they behave, we're supposed to love them without question. " Irene, you are so right, every now and then we start listing movies on here that reflect KO reality but they are still very few compared to the sacred mother stuff in almost *every* movie. What I'm struggling with right now is the cancelled tv series Pushing Daisies. I watched season one and loved it, but season 2 is all about finding & forgiving your lost parents. It's supposed to be a sentimental and sweet show, but regard to those topics I have no appetite. , I've been a little scared to watch Precious...seems like it could be therapeutic but also upsetting? " I also feel like it gives us false hope and allows us to put ourselves in precarious situations with justification. " , exactly. The myth that if you just forgive, be vulnerable, be the " bigger person " that they will do the same and be genuinely remorseful can be harmful. Some people aren't sorry and some people can't even comprehend what they should be sorry for. Good on you for getting you college friend to understand - oftentimes it's impossible to get people to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 You definitely will cry. Also, there is incest/rape in it so if that kind of thing is too triggery for you, I would vote not to watch it. My therapist said she won't even watch it. Re: sappy hollywood crap " There's something so intensely sacred about mothers that no matter how badly they behave, we're supposed to love them without question. " Irene, you are so right, every now and then we start listing movies on here that reflect KO reality but they are still very few compared to the sacred mother stuff in almost *every* movie. What I'm struggling with right now is the cancelled tv series Pushing Daisies. I watched season one and loved it, but season 2 is all about finding & forgiving your lost parents. It's supposed to be a sentimental and sweet show, but regard to those topics I have no appetite. , I've been a little scared to watch Precious...seems like it could be therapeutic but also upsetting? " I also feel like it gives us false hope and allows us to put ourselves in precarious situations with justification. " , exactly. The myth that if you just forgive, be vulnerable, be the " bigger person " that they will do the same and be genuinely remorseful can be harmful. Some people aren't sorry and some people can't even comprehend what they should be sorry for. Good on you for getting you college friend to understand - oftentimes it's impossible to get people to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 essentially, it's a biblical tradition. Alice talks alot about this in her work. There are some things that are done that only God can forgive, I believe. Incest, beatings, etc, mind-warping torment...it doesn't matter whether I individually forgive or not. Has anyone ever seen or does anyone know of a movie about someone who doesn't forgive, and is portrayed as whole and moving forward? Personally I am all for not forgiving. I think if there were less forgiveness, or what is called forgiveness but is really repression and suppression, there would be alot less crime and alot less war. The respect and adulation that is afforded to parents in culture really needs to be afforded to CHILDREN. We have it completely backwards. > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 I had a friend once who said that 'forgive and forget' is too often misinterpreted.' Her belief was that " if someone purposely ran over her with a truck, she would, for her own peace of mind, lay the anger aside ( " forgive " ) and she would not continually rehash it in her mind ( " forget " ), but that never meant she had to stand in front of their truck again. Forgive and forget has nothing to do with standing in front of a loaded gun -- that's about trust, and trust has to be earned. "  Her comments put things in perspective for me and helped me forgive my parents (lay the anger aside) and not keep on the treadmill (forget), but I still remember who they are and what their mental limitations are, and while I'm not angry with them anymore (bringing me peace of mind), I'm not foolish enough to think that I can trust them or that magically they'll be okay one day...or that I can do anything at all to fix it. All I can handle is me.  As I said before, I forgave them, but I did it for me, not them, and I never told them about forgiving them because they didn't see that they were wrong. I just laid it down within myself so that I could find peace for myself.  -Leslye Subject: Re: sappy hollywood crap To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Saturday, July 17, 2010, 9:10 PM  essentially, it's a biblical tradition. Alice talks alot about this in her work. There are some things that are done that only God can forgive, I believe. Incest, beatings, etc, mind-warping torment...it doesn't matter whether I individually forgive or not. Has anyone ever seen or does anyone know of a movie about someone who doesn't forgive, and is portrayed as whole and moving forward? Personally I am all for not forgiving. I think if there were less forgiveness, or what is called forgiveness but is really repression and suppression, there would be alot less crime and alot less war. The respect and adulation that is afforded to parents in culture really needs to be afforded to CHILDREN. We have it completely backwards. > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 It's true. The mother on Everybody Loves is so much like my mother. I hate that the ELR mother gets away with so much crap, apologizes, and starts over. > > > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 Climberkayak: Before " Precious " we watched " The Blind Side. " One of those movies about a young person from a bad background that is mentored and goes on to excel. Yes, the Mom was a drug addict, the young man was essentially homeless and uneducated. But with some folks on his side, he was able to reach his potential. We thought we'd watch " Precious " since it had the same theme only with a female star. The graphic abuse (her mom whacking her with a pan and verbal attacks like I've never seen, the father figure raping her over and over again) was way more than I could handle. It may have had a happy ending but the vulgar abuse was more than I wanted to see. > > " There's something so intensely sacred about mothers that no matter how badly > they behave, we're supposed to love them without question. " > > Irene, you are so right, every now and then we start listing movies on here that reflect KO reality but they are still very few compared to the sacred mother stuff in almost *every* movie. What I'm struggling with right now is the cancelled tv series Pushing Daisies. I watched season one and loved it, but season 2 is all about finding & forgiving your lost parents. It's supposed to be a sentimental and sweet show, but regard to those topics I have no appetite. > > , I've been a little scared to watch Precious...seems like it could be therapeutic but also upsetting? > > " I also feel like it gives us false hope and allows us to put ourselves in precarious situations with justification. " > > , exactly. The myth that if you just forgive, be vulnerable, be the " bigger person " that they will do the same and be genuinely remorseful can be harmful. Some people aren't sorry and some people can't even comprehend what they should be sorry for. Good on you for getting you college friend to understand - oftentimes it's impossible to get people to understand. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 This subject has been on this board before, and it always reminds me of one particular show. The Sopranos. If any of you have watched it, you will remember Livia, Tony Sopranos mother. She was so textbook BPD it wasn't even funny. In fact, many of her lines on the show really made me a little on edge while watching, because some of the things she would say were the same as my nada used to say. For example: " No one care's about me!! " " I just want to die, why won't God just take me now! " " My kids have no appreciation for me " " I sacraficed EVERYTHING for my children, and for what? " The list goes on and on. In the show, it was clear that she was nuts and that her kids suffered because of it. Tony Sopranot had no problem going NC. He reacted with hate and anger, not hurt and sadness. It was so close to home. Have any of you seen it? ~Sara Jo > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 SaraJ, oh yes, those are my favorite seasons of the Sopranos because they show the mother's crazy and people react to it realistically. I especially liked that they showed how Livia could get to Tony even though he was a mobster and how Carmella saw this and pointed out how his mother made him crazy. What I'm stirred up about is shows where they show bad parental stuff followed by a warm happy fuzziness that the KO forgives all and that parent is reformed (and sainted)- just magically. > > > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 Yeah, I think we need alot of instruction on dealing with anger, getting it out, working through it, moving through it and getting peace. I have never been able to 'lay it aside' when it comes to those major traumas, without some serious work and processing. And even then I'm not convinced that it's really relevant to the person that did the trauma. Or that I'm required not to be angry with them. I think beyond a certain point their fate and their forgiveness is in God's hands, their journey lies with their creator. It's not relevant to them whether I've forgiven them (unless they personally make a plea for it, which none of my predators have ever done). I have made amends in twelve step but I didn't ask for forgiveness, I acknowledged what I did and that it was wrong and tried to make it right. I've never received that kind of amend from anyone who seriously harmed me. That process, the amend process and admitting remorse, is really the only thing that is anyone else's business but mine in terms of anger I may have. I find alot of times I hear forgiveness encouraged when anger is expressed. But rarely have I ever heard someone encourage forgiveness out of genuine concern for the harm this anger may *actually* causing the person, rather it seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to encourage forgiveness when someone expresses something that makes the listener uncomfortable, perhaps something that reminds them of their own anger or unresolved issues. > > > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 I agree, and telling a mentally ill person that you forgive them usually leads to all kinds of repercussions, especially in cases of BPD and such where denial is such a prevalent feature. When I forgave, I never told any of my FOO at all. I laid it down within myself to save my own sanity. I had reached the point of such emotional trauma that I couldn't eat at all - could hold nothing down, not even baby food. I lost weight, became ill, and was constantly plagued by severe abdominal pain. Food, drinks, and medicines would stick in my throat, and if I got them down, within a few minutes, they were back up again. After spending way too much money on many doctors and many tests, the bottom line was that my digestive problems were stress induced, and the primary instigator was my mom. I couldn't fix her, so I had to fix me. The only way I could survive was to let it go. It had nothing to do with her deserving it or not. Now I'm at a healthy weight, can eat and drink without problem, and am beginning to enjoy my own life again. The anger, for me, wasn't worth what it was doing to my health. I let go only for me. -Leslye Subject: Re: sappy hollywood crap To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 8:44 PM  Yeah, I think we need alot of instruction on dealing with anger, getting it out, working through it, moving through it and getting peace. I have never been able to 'lay it aside' when it comes to those major traumas, without some serious work and processing. And even then I'm not convinced that it's really relevant to the person that did the trauma. Or that I'm required not to be angry with them. I think beyond a certain point their fate and their forgiveness is in God's hands, their journey lies with their creator. It's not relevant to them whether I've forgiven them (unless they personally make a plea for it, which none of my predators have ever done). I have made amends in twelve step but I didn't ask for forgiveness, I acknowledged what I did and that it was wrong and tried to make it right. I've never received that kind of amend from anyone who seriously harmed me. That process, the amend process and admitting remorse, is really the only thing that is anyone else's business but mine in terms of anger I may have. I find alot of times I hear forgiveness encouraged when anger is expressed. But rarely have I ever heard someone encourage forgiveness out of genuine concern for the harm this anger may *actually* causing the person, rather it seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to encourage forgiveness when someone expresses something that makes the listener uncomfortable, perhaps something that reminds them of their own anger or unresolved issues. > > > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 --- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " josephinebl67 " > Has anyone ever seen or does anyone know of a movie about someone who doesn't forgive, and is portrayed as whole and moving forward? First very much enjoying your and LKay's discussion on forgiveness and anger - helpful for me too. About movies for those who don't forgive and move forward - my first thought is every vigilante movie made. Cue dramatic voice....they killed his family and he's got nothing left, but REVENGE!... In these movies the wronged hero is shown as powerful and entitled to do all sorts of violence in the name of closure, so I guess you couldn't say he (and it's usually a he) is presented as whole and moving forward, but certainly um, action oriented. Ah never mind all that's probably beside the point of what you are looking for. Oh and I'm continuuing being a glutton for punishment and watching the second season of Pushing Daisies. I know it's triggering me, but damnit I loved this show before the father story lines and I'm determined to finish it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 Thank you for sharing these insights, Leslye. They were uncannily timely for me today. =) -gethappy > > > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 Whoaaaaaah, yeah. Livia Soprano, the Mom from Hell. I always enjoyed watching Tony use his " connections " to do her bidding in small ways (one episode involved the other ladies at the nursing home being mean to her, and he interceded - ahem - with the Mafiosi son of one of the 'mean' ladies.) But yeah, I also noticed that he didn't drop everything and run to her side - he had " Carm " (his long-suffering but diamond-bedecked wife) do that. It hit home that not EVERYBODY thinks they have to be at their crazy mom's beck and call all the time, even if she is powerful in her own right (Livia once tried to put a hit on Tony). And Tony's sister Janice was a hoot as well - over-analyzing everything and using her slim grasp of psychology and new-age philosophy to validate every loopy decision she made. What a FOO! Such agita! They were a mess. I miss them - because they were fictional. If they'd been my real family, I'd have entered Witness Protection in a New Jersey minute. > > > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 Yeah, I think Livia Soprano really is like many of our NADAS. I remember the first time I sat to watch it (my husband and I rented all the DVD's) and when we first met Livia, we looked at each other in amazement. She's just like my NADA!!! The " long suffereng mother who has done EVERYTHING for her kids with nothing in return " . couldn't explain my mom better. ~Sara J > > > > > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > > > > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > > > > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > > > > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 I've recently had two well-meaning friends to ask if I'm going to go visit Nada on her deathbed to get closure. Nada's been starving herself, and has spent much of the past month hospitalized. The helplessness of the situation has made me depressed. There is nothing anyone can do. Just today, I told one friend that I wasn't going to visit her, and there wasn't going to be Hollywood ending. This is why I usually don't tell people, but lately I've been depressed and thought talking would help... Joanna > > > > > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > > > > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > > > > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > > > > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 (((Joanna))) That's just a bad situation and it is depressing. It's one thing to know in your mind that there's nothing you can do and she makes her own bed etc., but it's still hard on the heart to see it. Is your nada starving herself because she's near death or is she near death because she's starving herself? I think those with no frame of reference just find it hard to " get " ...first they've got their own more functional family and then there's all the sappy hollywood crap reinforcing the notion of how things are supposed to be. The Big Deathbed Reconciliation is a huge theme in our society and I worry that my own NC situation with my fada will be tested by that before things are done. Much sympathies to you. Feel free to share more if it will help. > > > > > > > > So lately I've been noticing over and over and over how often the plot of the NC child making up with the estranged parent and forgiving them their parenting failures is in movies/television. And of course it's fiction and they want a happy ending, so somehow it always works out and the parent is now not that bad or has reformed. It's presented as a sappy sweet glorious thing that the angry adult child drops their defenses and gives the not-a-parent an invitation back into their lives. > > > > > > > > And it pisses me off. Why is it so *not okay* to honestly represent the reality of so many people that sometimes parents are bad, sometimes estrangement happens for good reasons, and it's really okay not to forgive and forget? I also can't stand the thought of this theme out there encouraging my fada and various other nadas and fadas to continue to " hold out hope " and try to force contact with KO's of various kinds. > > > > > > > > Even now I feel some internalized corner of my mind brainwashed by society saying....oh that's awfully mean of me not to want people to hold out hope. GAH! > > > > > > > > This has been a rant...thank you for listening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 I always found the episodes where they addressed the impact on Tony of knowing his mother put a hit on him fascinating. The therapy sessions and his dreams. > > Whoaaaaaah, yeah. Livia Soprano, the Mom from Hell. I always enjoyed watching Tony use his " connections " to do her bidding in small ways (one episode involved the other ladies at the nursing home being mean to her, and he interceded - ahem - with the Mafiosi son of one of the 'mean' ladies.) But yeah, I also noticed that he didn't drop everything and run to her side - he had " Carm " (his long-suffering but diamond-bedecked wife) do that. It hit home that not EVERYBODY thinks they have to be at their crazy mom's beck and call all the time, even if she is powerful in her own right (Livia once tried to put a hit on Tony). And Tony's sister Janice was a hoot as well - over-analyzing everything and using her slim grasp of psychology and new-age philosophy to validate every loopy decision she made. What a FOO! Such agita! They were a mess. I miss them - because they were fictional. If they'd been my real family, I'd have entered Witness Protection in a New Jersey minute. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 One of my favorite shows. But I always remember on scene where Livia was just lying on the couch just griping about how no one cares about her. My nada in a nutshell. > > > > Whoaaaaaah, yeah. Livia Soprano, the Mom from Hell. I always enjoyed watching Tony use his " connections " to do her bidding in small ways (one episode involved the other ladies at the nursing home being mean to her, and he interceded - ahem - with the Mafiosi son of one of the 'mean' ladies.) But yeah, I also noticed that he didn't drop everything and run to her side - he had " Carm " (his long-suffering but diamond-bedecked wife) do that. It hit home that not EVERYBODY thinks they have to be at their crazy mom's beck and call all the time, even if she is powerful in her own right (Livia once tried to put a hit on Tony). And Tony's sister Janice was a hoot as well - over-analyzing everything and using her slim grasp of psychology and new-age philosophy to validate every loopy decision she made. What a FOO! Such agita! They were a mess. I miss them - because they were fictional. If they'd been my real family, I'd have entered Witness Protection in a New Jersey minute. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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