Re: The heart of things...

[Guest guest]

> I guess it is just something that I am trying to reconcile within myself. I

just wonder where is the heart is in all of this??

The heart has to include everyone not just the suffering nada. Your compassion

should extend to yourself, your family, and others within the network of your

life. If your compassion for your nada would lead you to destroy yourself, then

is it really compassion? If a compassionate solution exists, it must be one

that considers the whole. Just my two zen-cents.

[Guest guest]

Lynda,

Love and compassion are not all about giving someone what she

wants or about trying to make her happy. Those things enter the

equation, but there are other parts as well. There needs to be

balance or what is meant to be good can turn toxic.

Relationships with people with BPD tend to lack balance,

sometimes to really extreme degrees. Sometimes what someone

claims to want and what is best, for her and for others, are two

very different things. Sometimes nothing you do is ever going to

bring her happiness. Sometimes continuing to try to do what she

wants falls into the category of enabling her bad behavior.

Instead of helping, it is really hurting. Even if what she wants

is good for her, don't you deserve love and compassion too? What

about your daughter? When you become a parent, your first

responsibility is to your child, not your parent. You need to

consider what is best for your child, and part of what your

child needs is for you to be mentally healthy and not stressed

and hurting emotionally to the point of being less able to be a

good mother yourself.

It is understandable for you to hope that your mother is somehow

going to turn into a normal mother. Wanting her to be there for

the baby's first swimming lessons is natural. It is probably a

pipe dream to think that she'd be helpful and would bond with

your daughter though. Besides, think about what kind of bond she

has with you. Do you really want that for your daughter?

Every situation is different and each of us has to figure out

what level of relationship is best, but if you do decide to have

less contact, I do not believe that is a path that lacks heart.

Remember, no amount of loving or effort on your part can make

the BPD go away. It isn't something you can cure with love and

compassion.

At 05:10 AM 07/17/2010 birdonawire77 wrote:

>I found myself recently entertaining the idea of taking my baby

>to her first swimming lessons and quite surprisingly found

>myself including mum in the picture. She would be a great help.

>She would it would help her back being in the water and she

>would enjoy being needed and the chance to bond with my

>daughter. What am I thinking??!!

>

>After an intense few weeks receiving multiple rages, an attempt

>on my part to go L.C and then finally a decision to not contact

>her at all, I surprised myself! A week ago, I couldn't bear the

>thought of seeing her. I still can't!

>

>I started thinking that perhaps things aren't so bad. That I

>could forgive and forget so to speak and allow her back into my

>life.

>I had to try really hard to remember all of the awful things

>that she said. This is what always happens. The anger, sadness,

>shock etc wears away and I start to remember all of the lovely

>things that she has done for me, the praise, the care for my

>well-being, the familiarity, the laughs....

>

>I have been trying to move out of anger and into acceptance and

>can't help but wonder if I may be in the bargaining phase(??)

>as I once again try and reconcile the " good " and " bad "

>behaviour. The mum that adores me and the mum that despises me.

>

>I have also been trying to reconcile the idea of maintaining no

>contact with her, but wanting to do the " right " and decent

>thing by her.

>

>I read something in my yoga class the other day that referred

>to the paths we choose in life and it posed the question " Does

>the path you have chosen have a heart? " Of course it went on to

>say that if the answer is no, then it should be abandoned for

>the path that does.

>

>Now I don't profess to be a yogi. I am far from perfect, but I

>do try and live my life by the basic principles of kindness and

>compassion for other's. Do onto others and all that.

>

>As I have been trying to create some strong, consistent

>boundaries and consider no contact due to her repeated rages

>and volatility, I have been tormented by this idea of heart. I

>have been trying to gather all of my strength to say I don't

>want you in my life if you are going to treat me like this and

>to stick with my decision. But I know that she is sick. She is

>typically isolated, alone and plagued by numerous illnesses. I

>know she loves me in the only way she can. I can see that

>every day is a struggle for her. I can see her trying to lead a

> " normal " life in many ways. I truly feel she has done her best

>for me, has worked incredibly hard as a single mum and made

>some pretty big sacrifices for me during her life.

>

>Once again, I am not attaching any moral judgement to anybody's

>emotions or actions on here. I am not suggesting that people

>who set boundaries are without heart. I know setting boundaries

>is healthy and absolutely necessary, particularly when dealing

>with a parent with BPD.

>

>I guess it is just something that I am trying to reconcile

>within myself. I just wonder where is the heart is in all of

>this??

>

>Is it in all of the years soul-searching, all of the desperate

>attempts to understand them, to please them, to fix them, the

>dashed hopes, finding forgiveness, picking our selves up again,

>the mourning for the mother that we will never have and the

>painful realisation that that they will never change no matter

>how hard we try to make them happy?

>

>Or is it not a matter of heart. Throughout my life I think I

>have been operating almost purely from heart, out of love for

>my mother and compassion for her difficult journey. But it

>hasn't been enough. I keep getting hurt and I believe in

>allowing that I am truly hurting her too.

>

>I would love to hear some thoughts on this.

>

>With Warmth,

>

>Lynda

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your responses. I really appreciate your thoughts. I hope I didn't

come across as sounding self-righteous. I know that love and compassion can't

fix things, especially not a mother with BPD. I also know that allowing another

to abuse me lacks love and compassion for myself and my priority now is staying

well so that I can be the best mother for my baby. Thank you for re-enforcing

this.

I guess I was just caught in another " weak " moment. I have recently moved to a

new level within the relationship where I have absolved myself of all feelings

of responsibility for her well-being and am not willing to allow her to abuse me

(it took me a long time to even acknowledge that it was abuse) and carry on as

though things are ok any more. I have felt great strength within this at times

and then all of the old feelings of doubt, worry etc kick in and I guess I came

across that line about choosing the path with heart while I was in such a

questioning frame of mind.

Thanks again for your thoughts and insights. They are much appreciated!

With warmth,

Lynda

> >I found myself recently entertaining the idea of taking my baby

> >to her first swimming lessons and quite surprisingly found

> >myself including mum in the picture. She would be a great help.

> >She would it would help her back being in the water and she

> >would enjoy being needed and the chance to bond with my

> >daughter. What am I thinking??!!

> >

> >After an intense few weeks receiving multiple rages, an attempt

> >on my part to go L.C and then finally a decision to not contact

> >her at all, I surprised myself! A week ago, I couldn't bear the

> >thought of seeing her. I still can't!

> >

> >I started thinking that perhaps things aren't so bad. That I

> >could forgive and forget so to speak and allow her back into my

> >life.

> >I had to try really hard to remember all of the awful things

> >that she said. This is what always happens. The anger, sadness,

> >shock etc wears away and I start to remember all of the lovely

> >things that she has done for me, the praise, the care for my

> >well-being, the familiarity, the laughs....

> >

> >I have been trying to move out of anger and into acceptance and

> >can't help but wonder if I may be in the bargaining phase(??)

> >as I once again try and reconcile the " good " and " bad "

> >behaviour. The mum that adores me and the mum that despises me.

> >

> >I have also been trying to reconcile the idea of maintaining no

> >contact with her, but wanting to do the " right " and decent

> >thing by her.

> >

> >I read something in my yoga class the other day that referred

> >to the paths we choose in life and it posed the question " Does

> >the path you have chosen have a heart? " Of course it went on to

> >say that if the answer is no, then it should be abandoned for

> >the path that does.

> >

> >Now I don't profess to be a yogi. I am far from perfect, but I

> >do try and live my life by the basic principles of kindness and

> >compassion for other's. Do onto others and all that.

> >

> >As I have been trying to create some strong, consistent

> >boundaries and consider no contact due to her repeated rages

> >and volatility, I have been tormented by this idea of heart. I

> >have been trying to gather all of my strength to say I don't

> >want you in my life if you are going to treat me like this and

> >to stick with my decision. But I know that she is sick. She is

> >typically isolated, alone and plagued by numerous illnesses. I

> >know she loves me in the only way she can. I can see that

> >every day is a struggle for her. I can see her trying to lead a

> > " normal " life in many ways. I truly feel she has done her best

> >for me, has worked incredibly hard as a single mum and made

> >some pretty big sacrifices for me during her life.

> >

> >Once again, I am not attaching any moral judgement to anybody's

> >emotions or actions on here. I am not suggesting that people

> >who set boundaries are without heart. I know setting boundaries

> >is healthy and absolutely necessary, particularly when dealing

> >with a parent with BPD.

> >

> >I guess it is just something that I am trying to reconcile

> >within myself. I just wonder where is the heart is in all of

> >this??

> >

> >Is it in all of the years soul-searching, all of the desperate

> >attempts to understand them, to please them, to fix them, the

> >dashed hopes, finding forgiveness, picking our selves up again,

> >the mourning for the mother that we will never have and the

> >painful realisation that that they will never change no matter

> >how hard we try to make them happy?

> >

> >Or is it not a matter of heart. Throughout my life I think I

> >have been operating almost purely from heart, out of love for

> >my mother and compassion for her difficult journey. But it

> >hasn't been enough. I keep getting hurt and I believe in

> >allowing that I am truly hurting her too.

> >

> >I would love to hear some thoughts on this.

> >

> >With Warmth,

> >

> >Lynda

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

I am only going to answer with where my head is today because I have been

thinking about this all day long. I have been going back and forth about this

and how I got sober and have been in some other 12 step groups and some issues

fit the twelve steps better than others. I kind of surprised myself today by

asking myself, is my family an addiction for me? Meaning I have this mythology

of how it used to be and am I 'going back' each time trying to alter my feelings

about my family and what it was. I have a pretty simple definition of addiction

which is only mine, compulsively using something to alter my feelings that is

harmful to me. The feelings I would be altering would be reality, i.e. both my

parents are personality disordered and exploited me (and continue to) for my own

purposes, pretty much on a minute to minute basis.

It's not important to me whether it really fits the classic criteria for

addiction but what I noticed in your post is that that is the process you hear

about in meetings for relapse, the 'stinking thinking', the denial about

consequences, the 'blind spot' about what it will be like to 'pick up' again. It

really hit me today and I have never thought of any of this before now. I really

do think I have mental blind spots and struggle with this so much. I 're-open'

myself to pain so many times and then immediately am in the 'what was I

thinking' space. I do believe, and there have been some pretty dreadful

experiments with animals to back this up, that we are very much hard-wired to

love our parents no matter what and to contort whatever parenting we receive

into 'love' because we are completely dependent on them for our physical

survival. So I think I feel like I am going to go easy on myself for continuing

to act out a genetic imperative but at the same time at some point a more

evolved part of my brain is going to have to step in and realize that I have to

attain (which I am working on) and then keep a safe distance first emotionally

and then physically from them because they both have screaming unresolved trauma

issues that neither has the conjones to work on in therapy or elsewhere and that

pain and trauma just festers and gets inflicted on the next generation unless it

is really looked at.

Ultimately it is your decision of course, I would also consider the risk of

letting daughter form an attachment to mom which will have to be broken at some

point, probably around the age of 2 or so when your daughter can comprehend

speech, my nephew understands a great deal of what we talk about even though he

doesn't speak very well because he has a speech delay. He understands scads more

than he can say.

I don't think necessarily the whole twelve steps apply to this (maybe maybe not,

it's probably an individual thing) but I have been thinking all day about the

first three and how they definitely apply for me. I'm still hashing it out,

what's important for me is I still have the same blindness and yearning despite

all my years of experience. It may always be there. But it won't change their

limitations as people. It's kind of an issue of how many times I am going to

'relapse' in this regard.

>

> I found myself recently entertaining the idea of taking my baby to her first

swimming lessons and quite surprisingly found myself including mum in the

picture. She would be a great help. She would it would help her back being in

the water and she would enjoy being needed and the chance to bond with my

daughter. What am I thinking??!!

>

> After an intense few weeks receiving multiple rages, an attempt on my part to

go L.C and then finally a decision to not contact her at all, I surprised

myself! A week ago, I couldn't bear the thought of seeing her. I still can't!

>

> I started thinking that perhaps things aren't so bad. That I could forgive and

forget so to speak and allow her back into my life.

> I had to try really hard to remember all of the awful things that she said.

This is what always happens. The anger, sadness, shock etc wears away and I

start to remember all of the lovely things that she has done for me, the praise,

the care for my well-being, the familiarity, the laughs....

>

> I have been trying to move out of anger and into acceptance and can't help but

wonder if I may be in the bargaining phase(??) as I once again try and reconcile

the " good " and " bad " behaviour. The mum that adores me and the mum that despises

me.

>

> I have also been trying to reconcile the idea of maintaining no contact with

her, but wanting to do the " right " and decent thing by her.

>

> I read something in my yoga class the other day that referred to the paths we

choose in life and it posed the question " Does the path you have chosen have a

heart? " Of course it went on to say that if the answer is no, then it should be

abandoned for the path that does.

>

> Now I don't profess to be a yogi. I am far from perfect, but I do try and live

my life by the basic principles of kindness and compassion for other's. Do onto

others and all that.

>

> As I have been trying to create some strong, consistent boundaries and

consider no contact due to her repeated rages and volatility, I have been

tormented by this idea of heart. I have been trying to gather all of my strength

to say I don't want you in my life if you are going to treat me like this and to

stick with my decision. But I know that she is sick. She is typically isolated,

alone and plagued by numerous illnesses. I know she loves me in the only way she

can. I can see that every day is a struggle for her. I can see her trying to

lead a " normal " life in many ways. I truly feel she has done her best for me,

has worked incredibly hard as a single mum and made some pretty big sacrifices

for me during her life.

>

> Once again, I am not attaching any moral judgement to anybody's emotions or

actions on here. I am not suggesting that people who set boundaries are without

heart. I know setting boundaries is healthy and absolutely necessary,

particularly when dealing with a parent with BPD.

>

> I guess it is just something that I am trying to reconcile within myself. I

just wonder where is the heart is in all of this??

>

> Is it in all of the years soul-searching, all of the desperate attempts to

understand them, to please them, to fix them, the dashed hopes, finding

forgiveness, picking our selves up again, the mourning for the mother that we

will never have and the painful realisation that that they will never change no

matter how hard we try to make them happy?

>

> Or is it not a matter of heart. Throughout my life I think I have been

operating almost purely from heart, out of love for my mother and compassion for

her difficult journey. But it hasn't been enough. I keep getting hurt and I

believe in allowing that I am truly hurting her too.

>

> I would love to hear some thoughts on this.

>

> With Warmth,

>

> Lynda

>

[Guest guest]

Lynda,

I didn't think you sounded self-righteous at all. You sound like

you're trying to figure out how to make your reality fit your

ideals. Society tells us over and over again that mothers are

all wonderful and they love us and that's just not how things

are for us in reality. Matching that reality to ideas about

being compassionate and loving can be very hard because the

ideals apply to ideal situations where there's no mental

illness.

At 07:51 PM 07/17/2010 birdonawire77 wrote:

>Thanks for your responses. I really appreciate your thoughts. I

>hope I didn't come across as sounding self-righteous. I know

>that love and compassion can't fix things, especially not a

>mother with BPD. I also know that allowing another to abuse me

>lacks love and compassion for myself and my priority now is

>staying well so that I can be the best mother for my baby.

>Thank you for re-enforcing this.

>

>I guess I was just caught in another " weak " moment. I have

>recently moved to a new level within the relationship where I

>have absolved myself of all feelings of responsibility for her

>well-being and am not willing to allow her to abuse me (it took

>me a long time to even acknowledge that it was abuse) and carry

>on as though things are ok any more. I have felt great strength

>within this at times and then all of the old feelings of doubt,

>worry etc kick in and I guess I came across that line about

>choosing the path with heart while I was in such a questioning

>frame of mind.

>

>Thanks again for your thoughts and insights. They are much

>appreciated!

>

>With warmth,

>Lynda

--

Katrina