Guest guest Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 Judith I have always found it refreshing that I can say whatever I want in this group and at least one persson knows where I am coming from. You know what you meant and you said it. Good for you! Not everything has to be a debate! Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 What I really want is for someone to tell me, no Judith, you should talk more, and write more, and sing more, and you should just do more things to let yourself and everyone know you were here, once. And I just told myself that. So. Carry on. Judith feeling frankly more than a little embarrassed but going to push send anyway _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 Thank you so much Jen, I really needed to hear that. Judith On Thu, 8 Jun 2000 20:09:22 EDT, 12-step-freeegroups wrote: > Judith > I have always found it refreshing that I can say whatever I want in this > group and at least one persson knows where I am coming from. You know what > you meant and you said it. Good for you! Not everything has to be a debate! > Jen _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 Judith, Please feel free not to answer this question--Are you an educator? The reason I ask, I your concern reminds me of a learning paradox I face as both a student, and an educator. As an educator, I want class discussion to be meaningful. Given the limited amount of time this desire generally precludes students just thinking outloud and expressing incomplete thoughts. I think this becomes problematic when I understand that I myself have come to appreciate the learning-out- loud method that recognizes that all statements are a part of an ongoing thought process. Whewww! So, what do we do? I say, as you have said below: " write more, sing more, talk more, " and let the chips fall where they may. llawrence@... Re: am I talking to much? > What I really want is for someone to tell me, no Judith, you should talk > more, and write more, and sing more, and you should just do more things to > let yourself and everyone know you were here, once. > > And I just told myself that. So. Carry on. > > Judith > feeling frankly more than a little embarrassed > but going to push send anyway > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Old school buds here: > http://click./1/4057/2/_/4324/_/960509237/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 On Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:15:50 -0700, 12-step-freeegroups wrote: > Judith, > Please feel free not to answer this question--Are you an educator? No, I do freelance computer work. But I really don't think that what I get paid to do, is what I'm best at. > The reason I ask, I your concern reminds me of a learning paradox I face as both a student, and an educator. As an educator, I want class discussion to be meaningful. Given the limited amount of time this desire generally precludes students just thinking outloud and expressing incomplete thoughts. I think this becomes problematic when I understand that I myself have come to appreciate the learning-out- loud method that recognizes that all statements are a part of an ongoing thought process. Whewww! So, what do we do? I say, as you have said below: " write more, sing more, talk more, " and let the chips fall where they may. That's so cool I just feel good reading this. I'm reading a book called Why They Kill by (you probably already saw me refer to it, it just gets better and better). One of the papers written by this criminologist, Lonnie Athens (about whom the book is written), is called " Self as Soliloquy. " Here is a quote (not from the paper but from the book): " Stream of consciousness--a phrase popularized to describe our interior soliloquies--or internal monologue, a literary device whose invention is conveniently ascribed to Joyce and Virginia Woolf, solved a similar problem in narrative fiction. That soliloquy is in fact interior speech is confirmed by modern studies of the self-talk of children, who typically soliloquize out loud until they enter school, when they learn to interiorize the process and go silent to avoid being overheard--literally keeping their opinions to themselves. " I'm afraid I'm emotional, and expressive, and it's just something I (and the people around me) have to live with. Today, I've felt triumphant and happy about the 20/20 show; defensive; embarrassed; and I've expressed all these emotions here. It's not always comfortable feeling my emotions. Writing about them helps. More than drinking ever has. Judith _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 Thank you Judith for sharing that wonderful quote. I too am emotional and expressive. I have learned to like that about myself. When I discover something new, a new way of seeing a thing, I tend to be overjoyed. My boss tells me that this makes me a good teacher. It just amazes me that there would be so much resistance on the part of those diehard AAer's to anything new, as they are removing themselves from the possibility of the kind of joy we have experienced. llawrence@... Re: am I talking to much? > On Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:15:50 -0700, 12-step-freeegroups wrote: > > > Judith, > > Please feel free not to answer this question--Are you an educator? > > No, I do freelance computer work. But I really don't think that what I get > paid to do, is what I'm best at. > > > The reason I ask, I your concern reminds me of a learning paradox I face > as both a student, and an educator. As an educator, I want class > discussion to be meaningful. Given the limited amount of time this desire > generally precludes students just thinking outloud and expressing > incomplete thoughts. I think this becomes problematic when I understand > that I myself have come to appreciate the learning-out- loud method that > recognizes that all statements are a part of an ongoing thought process. > Whewww! So, what do we do? I say, as you have said below: " write more, > sing more, talk more, " and let the chips fall where they may. > > That's so cool I just feel good reading this. > > I'm reading a book called Why They Kill by (you probably > already saw me refer to it, it just gets better and better). One of the > papers written by this criminologist, Lonnie Athens (about whom the book is > written), is called " Self as Soliloquy. " Here is a quote (not from the paper > but from the book): > > " Stream of consciousness--a phrase popularized to describe our > interior soliloquies--or internal monologue, a literary device whose > invention is conveniently ascribed to Joyce and Virginia Woolf, solved > a similar problem in narrative fiction. That soliloquy is in fact interior > speech is confirmed by modern studies of the self-talk of children, who > typically soliloquize out loud until they enter school, when they learn to > interiorize the process and go silent to avoid being overheard--literally > keeping their opinions to themselves. " > > I'm afraid I'm emotional, and expressive, and it's just something I (and the > people around me) have to live with. Today, I've felt triumphant and happy > about the 20/20 show; defensive; embarrassed; and I've expressed all these > emotions here. It's not always comfortable feeling my emotions. Writing > about them helps. More than drinking ever has. > > Judith > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Never lose a file again. Protect yourself from accidental deletes, > overwrites, and viruses with @Backup. > Try @Backup it's easy, it's safe, and it's FREE! > Click here to receive 300 MyPoints just for trying @Backup. > http://click./1/4936/2/_/4324/_/960512448/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 Judith, I enjoy all of your posts, and I'm really glad that you are here. You have offered me intense thought at many times. I really appreciate that, because as a former AA'er....... well... you know.... Need to think? You remind me so much of myself sometimes. In fact, alot of times. This will sound like a bizarre compliment, but I somehow don't feel so " different " by reading your posts. I am an indivual that has been trying to be strong my entire life. And now I find that difficult. My self-esteem never stood a chance. Perhaps yours, too? I am now trying to get a grip...not about alcohol, or even AA,... just life itself. And it's about time on that. You wrote once that these folks are your heroes? Well, you my friend, are one of " these folks " as far as I'm concerned. Sue > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: am I talking to much? >Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:03:30 -0700 (PDT) > >I think it's time for me to chill a little bit. I'm sorry if I pushed any >buttons. Didn't mean to. see sometimes I think my inner censor, or my self >control, or whatever you want to call it, is a little too good. so >sometimes >I try to be more open. and that can cause problems. > >but see, i should have been more defensive 15 years ago. and so i make up >for it this way. and I don't want to do this at anyone else's expense. > >so i'm chillin. > >judith > > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite >Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 " I am now trying to get a grip...not about alcohol, or even AA,... just life itself. And it's about time on that. " Yes, when you realize how badly you've been " conned " by the stepNazis you need to get back to first base. God bless, Judith, and good batting! . > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: am I talking to much? >Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 07:08:43 GMT > > > Judith, > > I enjoy all of your posts, and I'm really glad that you are > here. You have offered me intense thought at many times. I > really appreciate that, because as a former AA'er....... > well... you know.... Need to think? > You remind me so much of myself sometimes. In fact, alot of > times. This will sound like a bizarre compliment, but I > somehow don't feel so " different " by reading your posts. > I am an indivual that has been trying to be strong my > entire life. And now I find that difficult. My self-esteem > never stood a chance. Perhaps yours, too? > I am now trying to get a grip...not about alcohol, or > even AA,... just life itself. And it's about time on that. > You wrote once that these folks are your heroes? Well, > you my friend, are one of " these folks " as far as I'm concerned. > > Sue > > > > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups > >To: 12-step-freeegroups > >Subject: am I talking to much? > >Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:03:30 -0700 (PDT) > > > >I think it's time for me to chill a little bit. I'm sorry if I pushed any > >buttons. Didn't mean to. see sometimes I think my inner censor, or my >self > >control, or whatever you want to call it, is a little too good. so > >sometimes > >I try to be more open. and that can cause problems. > > > >but see, i should have been more defensive 15 years ago. and so i make up > >for it this way. and I don't want to do this at anyone else's expense. > > > >so i'm chillin. > > > >judith > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________ > >Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > >Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 Thank you Sue. This means a lot to me. I have a lot of respect for you, and I don't think your compliment is bizarre at all. I understand exactly what you mean. You really summed up what it is that makes 12sf so important to me: when I'm here, I feel like maybe, just maybe, I'm OK after all. Judith > Judith, > > I enjoy all of your posts, and I'm really glad that you are > here. You have offered me intense thought at many times. I > really appreciate that, because as a former AA'er....... > well... you know.... Need to think? > You remind me so much of myself sometimes. In fact, alot of > times. This will sound like a bizarre compliment, but I > somehow don't feel so " different " by reading your posts. > I am an indivual that has been trying to be strong my > entire life. And now I find that difficult. My self-esteem > never stood a chance. Perhaps yours, too? > I am now trying to get a grip...not about alcohol, or > even AA,... just life itself. And it's about time on that. > You wrote once that these folks are your heroes? Well, > you my friend, are one of " these folks " as far as I'm concerned. > > Sue _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2000 Report Share Posted June 10, 2000 I like hearing what you have to say. Don't chill too much! AA screwed my life up too (or more... I can't decide). Keep the calavry comin', I'm right behind you on my pity pot. Jeannette > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: am I talking to much? >Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:03:30 -0700 (PDT) > >I think it's time for me to chill a little bit. I'm sorry if I pushed any >buttons. Didn't mean to. see sometimes I think my inner censor, or my self >control, or whatever you want to call it, is a little too good. so >sometimes >I try to be more open. and that can cause problems. > >but see, i should have been more defensive 15 years ago. and so i make up >for it this way. and I don't want to do this at anyone else's expense. > >so i'm chillin. > >judith > > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite >Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2000 Report Share Posted June 11, 2000 " i should have been more defensive 15 years ago " -- me too, or maybe " aggressive " . I don't know, because I didn't know, being a touch naive, how bad the shit was at the time. Anyway, now I keep my eyes wide open with some people I might formerly have trusted, the sort to whom the meaning of " trust " is unknown, but are capable of a putting on dam' good act. . . Anyway, let's not spend too much time in the past -- it's not always a happy place. Yours freely, . > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: am I talking to much? >Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:16:38 CDT > >I like hearing what you have to say. Don't chill too much! >AA screwed my life up too (or more... I can't decide). Keep the calavry >comin', I'm right behind you on my pity pot. > >Jeannette > > > > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups > >To: 12-step-freeegroups > >Subject: am I talking to much? > >Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:03:30 -0700 (PDT) > > > >I think it's time for me to chill a little bit. I'm sorry if I pushed any > >buttons. Didn't mean to. see sometimes I think my inner censor, or my >self > >control, or whatever you want to call it, is a little too good. so > >sometimes > >I try to be more open. and that can cause problems. > > > >but see, i should have been more defensive 15 years ago. and so i make up > >for it this way. and I don't want to do this at anyone else's expense. > > > >so i'm chillin. > > > >judith > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________ > >Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > >Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2000 Report Share Posted June 20, 2000 As you said, carry on! Judith Stillwater wrote: > What I really want is for someone to tell me, no Judith, you should talk > more, and write more, and sing more, and you should just do more things to > let yourself and everyone know you were here, once. > > And I just told myself that. So. Carry on. > > Judith > feeling frankly more than a little embarrassed > but going to push send anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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