Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Amy, First - This is my opinion and only my opinion. I'm not trying to give the point of view of anyone else on this list. I read your reply to Sissi, and just had to put my 2 cents in. My mother taught ESE in Kansas for many years, so I end up hearing both the parents side and the teachers side. There are many horror stories from all over everywhere about the treatment or neglect of developmentally delayed children. It seems to me, however, that the basic problem is that the number of children diagnosed with an ASD has skyrocketed lately, leaving the system overwhelmed. My gripe with it is that, although everyone has watched the numbers go up for years now, the system has not been changed to deal with the rise. Most teachers have no personal experience with autism and little training about it. To go along with that, no new training is offered. Even most ESE teachers aren't given enough training in this area. Add to that the fact that even the money promised by the state and federal government for programs and equipment for special needs kids tends to get put off " for just another year " , and you get a public school system that can't usually offer what the law says they must, a beauracracy that is interested in keeping the status quo, and teachers and administrators who are usually underpaid, undertrained, and sometimes even misinformed. And then, of course there are those few people who shouldn't have been in this profession in the first place. Not to offend you, but you will find at least a few idiots and a**holes in any profession. No, in general it's not the teachers' faults, but, unfortunately, for man of them it's both easier and acceptable to just go with the flow and not go the extra mile to get the knowledge and extra training. This isn't laziness or stupidity; it's human nature. They have busy lives - kids and families of their own, perhaps second jobs, and not much of a paycheck to pay for what they already have in their personal budgets. And the most common way to NOT feel guilty is to turn a blind eye to the problems and needs. Not all teachers do this. There are many out there that do go the extra mile. It's just that there are many who don't as well. Okay, I'm going to get off my soap box now, and stop rambling. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 , I'm not sure if you want " safe " ways to restrain Annmarie or other options, or both? I could give you some ideas if you let me know what you want. Kep is 5 and weighs 70 lbs, so believe me, I KNOW! Amy H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Well my son was looking the wrong way when he was taken to the floor before my eyes. I'd hate to see what would happen if he actually went into a meltdown at school. Here at home I have ways to handle most situations, redirection can work or applying deep pressure such as large cushions which he usually pulls on himself now. Sometimes you just have to let them get the rage out. He's free to do that in his bedroom, which is a safe place to do it. Sissi Garvey restraining children > I am so dismayed about the thread about the schools restraining > children. It is unconscenable, yet I can understand how it can happen. > > I know Annmarie gets to the point on an almost daily basis (and > sometimes more than once a day) where she is a danger to herself, to > Flory or to me. She apparently is not this way at school (she > withdraws there instead), so they don't see it. However, at home it > is getting to the point where it is more than I can handle. > > I have been trying to get help, just someone to coach me how to > manage these episodes, and I cannot seem to get any answers. Not > from the schools, not from my pediatrician, etc. > > I thought that they were holding out on me, perhaps trying to protect > themselves from liability in case something happened and I held them > responsible. But now I think it is probably because THEY don't know > what to do. And if they cannot help me, then what are they going to > do with a large child who is behaving the way that Annmarie does? > > She is 4 years old, and weighs just over 30 lbs. I am a hefty woman, > but when she is pumped up with adreneline, she is as strong as I am. > And she is an escape artist to boot. If I were to apply the amount > of physical pressure it would take to truly restrain her, I believe I > could very easily injure her or worse. > > I cannot imagine how I would handle that kind of situation with a > larger child. So, even though I think it is horrid, I can certainly > understand how easily a situation like that could get out of control. > > The real failing here is a system that full of huge cracks where > people who care (parents, teachers, etc) cannot get the information > or assistance they need to do an adequate job for their children. > That is the tragedy that affects all of us. > > (getting off the soapbox) > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 > > I am so dismayed about the thread about the schools restraining > > children. It is unconscenable, yet I can understand how it can happen. It happens because school systems are lazy and don't want to take the time, energy or money to deal with autistic children in a way that will benefit the children in the long run. When you restrain a child for every little thing that comes along (the way my son is restrained) then you teach the child that it's the bigger and stronger person who wins. Not a good lesson to teach a 65 pound 5YO with autism. In ten years my son will be very large and will end up in an institution if this is allowed to continue. This kid in Houston has probably been restrained in a manner similar to the way my son is restrained. He's too big for them to simply overpower now. This proves that it's WRONG. There is no understanding (on my part) for laziness and incompetence. Boone sees restraint and shouting as violence. Violence is something he does not tolerate well. It will continue only over my dead body. Sissi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 > > It happens because school systems are lazy and don't want to take the time, > energy or money to deal with autistic children in a way that will benefit > the children in the long run. When you restrain a child for every little > thing that comes along (the way my son is restrained) then you teach the > child that it's the bigger and stronger person who wins. Sissi~ I mean no disrespect, but I am so offended by the statements you made above I can't beleive it. I understand that you are having a hard time with your particular school and teachers, but there are teachers out there who give a damn. I do use restraint as a last measure if my staff, my other students or myself are in danger. I certainly DO NOT restrain a child for every little reason and NOT because I am lazy. It disgusts me to think this is how the parents of the kids I love as much as my own and cry about their accomplishments as much as their parents, would ever have such horrid thoughs about me. Almost everything I read on here about teachers is bashing, and it breaks my heart to know that this is how parents really view teachers as a whole. Amy mom to Noah 6 Lucas 8 ASD's Special ed Teacher with HEART Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 I happen to love the last teacher Alec had. He had her for 2 yrs. She was great. I loved greggory's kindergarten teacher and this year his teacher is another perfect match. Greggory's teachers for disabled preK were very good too and his preschool teacher couldnt have been better. I have searched out these people and been lucky enough to find them. It really is a sad thing but there are alot of lazy, porly trained, tired, overworked, anger, bitter, misinformed or whatever ....teachers out there teaching our children. I have had the lovaas program deny Alec his break and lunch because he wouldnt say " out " . He wasnt even verbal at the time. I have meet with potential teachers who seemed irritated that I would want to meet them first, before letting my child be in their class. I know there are wonderful teachers out there and I am sure you are one of them. So I am guessing the parents of your students dont hate or dislike you. But as always we are here for support and so alot of the time you will be hearing the bad things that happen to us and our children and teachers are a big part of this. jacquie H > > > > > It happens because school systems are lazy and don't want to take > the time, > > energy or money to deal with autistic children in a way that will > benefit > > the children in the long run. When you restrain a child for every > little > > thing that comes along (the way my son is restrained) then you > teach the > > child that it's the bigger and stronger person who wins. > > > Sissi~ > I mean no disrespect, but I am so offended by the statements you > made above I can't beleive it. I understand that you are having a > hard time with your particular school and teachers, but there are > teachers out there who give a damn. I do use restraint as a last > measure if my staff, my other students or myself are in danger. I > certainly DO NOT restrain a child for every little reason and NOT > because I am lazy. It disgusts me to think this is how the parents of > the kids I love as much as my own and cry about their accomplishments > as much as their parents, would ever have such horrid thoughs about > me. Almost everything I read on here about teachers is bashing, and > it breaks my heart to know that this is how parents really view > teachers as a whole. > > Amy mom to > Noah 6 Lucas 8 ASD's > Special ed Teacher with HEART Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Amy, Just so you know, I happen to LOVE Matt's teacher already. She has been supportive to me as much as to . She brings him back from the lunch room early because she knows he can't handle too much of the other children. She's been trying to keep him separated as much as possible from one little girl who fusses a lot (it send close to the edge), and is spending lots of 1:1 time with him. I do know that she can't do this the whole school year. The other kids need her too, but until he feels more comfortable, she is doing what it takes, and I truly appreciate her for it. She's bringing him along slowly, and yet pushing him to make sure he's growing as well. My greatest wish would be that ALL children have such dedicated teachers as you and Miss Nicki. ellen Re: restraining children > > It happens because school systems are lazy and don't want to take the time, > energy or money to deal with autistic children in a way that will benefit > the children in the long run. When you restrain a child for every little > thing that comes along (the way my son is restrained) then you teach the > child that it's the bigger and stronger person who wins. Sissi~ I mean no disrespect, but I am so offended by the statements you made above I can't beleive it. I understand that you are having a hard time with your particular school and teachers, but there are teachers out there who give a damn. I do use restraint as a last measure if my staff, my other students or myself are in danger. I certainly DO NOT restrain a child for every little reason and NOT because I am lazy. It disgusts me to think this is how the parents of the kids I love as much as my own and cry about their accomplishments as much as their parents, would ever have such horrid thoughs about me. Almost everything I read on here about teachers is bashing, and it breaks my heart to know that this is how parents really view teachers as a whole. Amy mom to Noah 6 Lucas 8 ASD's Special ed Teacher with HEART Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 My aunt's friend is a teacher at the school where Andy should be going to next year (hopefully). It is a mainstream school with a separate autism class. My aunt's friend is the teacher in charge. They have a room specifically for melt downs. They are not allowed to restrain the child. This room has padding on the walls, the door and the floor. There are soft play toys and bean bags (and the like there). This room was built after a student kicked my aunt's friend on the back of the head. She was knocked out for about 10 minutes and she also sustained nerve damage (she still takes dizzy spells and has tingling in her fingers). There is a small window (with shaterproof safety plastic), so that the teacher can keep an eye on the child while they are having a meltdown. Since this room was built, no child has caused another an injury and no child has hurt themselves during a meltdown. Ali > > > I am so dismayed about the thread about the schools restraining > > > children. It is unconscenable, yet I can understand how it can happen. > > > It happens because school systems are lazy and don't want to take the time, > energy or money to deal with autistic children in a way that will benefit > the children in the long run. When you restrain a child for every little > thing that comes along (the way my son is restrained) then you teach the > child that it's the bigger and stronger person who wins. > > Not a good lesson to teach a 65 pound 5YO with autism. In ten years my son > will be very large and will end up in an institution if this is allowed to > continue. > > This kid in Houston has probably been restrained in a manner similar to the > way my son is restrained. He's too big for them to simply overpower now. > This proves that it's WRONG. There is no understanding (on my part) for > laziness and incompetence. Boone sees restraint and shouting as violence. > Violence is something he does not tolerate well. > > It will continue only over my dead body. > > Sissi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 > Sissi~ > I mean no disrespect, but I am so offended by the statements you > made above I can't beleive it. I understand that you are having a > hard time with your particular school and teachers, but there are > teachers out there who give a damn. I do use restraint as a last > measure if my staff, my other students or myself are in danger. I > certainly DO NOT restrain a child for every little reason and NOT > because I am lazy. It disgusts me to think this is how the parents of > the kids I love as much as my own and cry about their accomplishments > as much as their parents, would ever have such horrid thoughs about > me. Almost everything I read on here about teachers is bashing, and > it breaks my heart to know that this is how parents really view > teachers as a whole. I can only speak to my situation and those who are in similar situations. There are many examples of children in the same situation Boone was in. I don't know you. I didn't know you were a teacher. If you treated my son the wway his teacher treats him I would say the same things to you that I would say about you. I'm very sorry if you're offended by my son's experiences. Sissi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 I am so sorry ... I am not trying to negate anyones fury with their personal school situations. I have read a lot of posts on here that if some of the situations happened to my child/children the teacher wouldn't be able to walk due to my foot being firmly planted in her/his ass. It just gets disheartening sometimes to feel a comparison with these obviously inept horrible teachers that seem to either not have what it takes to do their jobs or don't care anymore. Again I am sorry if I made anyone feel they couldn't vent their problems. Amy mom to Noah 6 Lucas 8 ASD's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 > I am so sorry ... I am not trying to negate anyones fury with their > personal school situations. I have read a lot of posts on here that > if some of the situations happened to my child/children the teacher > wouldn't be able to walk due to my foot being firmly planted in > her/his ass. It just gets disheartening sometimes to feel a > comparison with these obviously inept horrible teachers that seem to > either not have what it takes to do their jobs or don't care anymore. > Again I am sorry if I made anyone feel they couldn't vent their > problems. Amy, I'm a reporter. If I went and got all sensitive everytime somebody said something negative about the media I'd never stop crying. And I wish to GOD my son had a teacher like you. I really, really do. Sissi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Amen to that! Jacquie H > Amy, > > First - This is my opinion and only my opinion. I'm not trying to give the > point of view of anyone else on this list. > > I read your reply to Sissi, and just had to put my 2 cents in. My mother > taught ESE in Kansas for many years, so I end up hearing both the parents > side and the teachers side. There are many horror stories from all over > everywhere about the treatment or neglect of developmentally delayed > children. It seems to me, however, that the basic problem is that the number > of children diagnosed with an ASD has skyrocketed lately, leaving the system > overwhelmed. > > My gripe with it is that, although everyone has watched the numbers go up for > years now, the system has not been changed to deal with the rise. Most > teachers have no personal experience with autism and little training about > it. To go along with that, no new training is offered. Even most ESE > teachers aren't given enough training in this area. > > Add to that the fact that even the money promised by the state and federal > government for programs and equipment for special needs kids tends to get put > off " for just another year " , and you get a public school system that can't > usually offer what the law says they must, a beauracracy that is interested > in keeping the status quo, and teachers and administrators who are usually > underpaid, undertrained, and sometimes even misinformed. And then, of course > there are those few people who shouldn't have been in this profession in the > first place. Not to offend you, but you will find at least a few idiots and > a**holes in any profession. > > No, in general it's not the teachers' faults, but, unfortunately, for man of > them it's both easier and acceptable to just go with the flow and not go the > extra mile to get the knowledge and extra training. This isn't laziness or > stupidity; it's human nature. They have busy lives - kids and families of > their own, perhaps second jobs, and not much of a paycheck to pay for what > they already have in their personal budgets. And the most common way to NOT > feel guilty is to turn a blind eye to the problems and needs. > > Not all teachers do this. There are many out there that do go the extra > mile. It's just that there are many who don't as well. > > Okay, I'm going to get off my soap box now, and stop rambling. > > B > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 It seems to me, however, that the basic problem is that the number > of children diagnosed with an ASD has skyrocketed lately, leaving the system > overwhelmed. **I completely agree schools are very overwelmed by the ASD BOOM > > My gripe with it is that, although everyone has watched the numbers go up for > years now, the system has not been changed to deal with the rise. Most > teachers have no personal experience with autism and little training about > it. **Many schools will hire ANYONE who is legally qualified to teach because of the special ed shortage. People just aren't choosing this as a profession anymore. To go along with that, no new training is offered. Even most ESE > teachers aren't given enough training in this area. **A lot of included children are being included into a classroom where a teacher didn't go to school for special ed training, and didn't expect to just being given a special needs child in their class with no more than a booklet describing some of their qualities. If the district doesn't offer training, where does a teacher go for this training, especially on the alreday meager salaries provided. > > Add to that the fact that even the money promised by the state and federal > government for programs and equipment for special needs kids tends to get put > off " for just another year " , and you get a public school system that can't > usually offer what the law says they must, a beauracracy that is interested > in keeping the status quo, and teachers and administrators who are usually > underpaid, undertrained, and sometimes even misinformed. And then, of course > there are those few people who shouldn't have been in this profession in the > first place. Not to offend you, but you will find at least a few idiots and > a**holes in any profession. **** AMEN....Do you know what my calssroom budget is for all supplies for an entire year is ? $130. That is supposed to pay for all materials for the whole year. If I want to do something special for my kids it comes out of my pocket. I have already paid a good $100 out of pocket and its we aren't even to Xmas. > No, in general it's not the teachers' faults, but, unfortunately, for man of > them it's both easier and acceptable to just go with the flow and not go the > extra mile to get the knowledge and extra training. This isn't laziness or > stupidity; it's human nature. They have busy lives - kids and families of > their own, *** I have 2 children with ASD of my own, there are some days I feel guilty because I have nothing left when I get home because I have given it to everyone elses kids. perhaps second jobs, and not much of a paycheck to pay for what > they already have in their personal budgets And the most common way to NOT > feel guilty is to turn a blind eye to the problems and needs. > > Not all teachers do this. There are many out there that do go the extra > mile. It's just that there are many who don't as well. > > Okay, I'm going to get off my soap box now, and stop rambling. > > B Thank you ....If anyone is interested in where great services are for kids with Autism, they are in McHenry County Illinois. Our district serves 63 children with autism, in 9 classrooms of different ages and abilities. We do modified discrete trial, floortime and modified TEACHH. We have great SLP, OT and PT, the kids also get swimming 1x a month in a therapy pool .Every educator I work with cares about there kids. WE are a special education Co-Op housed in elementary schools is every city in our county. Amy mom to Noah 6 Lucas 8 ASD's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Amy, I really have nothing against teachers in general. I know that there are some very good teachers out there. In a perfect would I would have enough money to hire a friend of ours (4th grade teacher) to be a full time tutor for our kids for homeschooling but that isn't going to happen anytime soon. What I have a problem with is the adminstrative side of schools in general. Teachers, I feel, are prevented in general from doing their jobs in a lot of cases because of adminstrative bullshit that goes on with everyone above them. A principal tells a teacher that you handle situation X with punishment protocol 9 (Star Trek joke there....punishment protocol 9 is standing in the corner) and that is just the way that the school deals with situation X because this came up before and the admistrative staff came up with this as the best solution (after consulting the voices in their heads). Doesn't matter that the teacher doesn't feel that is right, that is what must be done. And, lets face it, kids being kids are going to act different in school than they do at home. A parent doesn't know what is going on at school (especially in the cases where the teachers send home vague reports) and when the IEP comes around the teachers are saying that ny throws his books across the room four times a day the parent sits there and says that he doesn't do that at home. Does anyone address WHY ny is throwing his books (in some IEPS maybe, in others probably not, depends on who is running them, the attitudes of those people, if they want to be there, if they want to get it over quickly, etc), the teacher pretty much, at the end of her rope, just wants to know what to do to make it stop and the parent is trying to understand either why it is happening or what in the world the teacher is talking about since she never sees it. Unfortunatly there are teachers in schools who don't really want to teach. They lost the zest for it (or they are like the teacher I had my sophmore year in high school that was going senile and we pushed him into retirement...don't ask) and it is just a paycheck for them. There are people in every field like that. They go in, want to get it over as soon as possible, and get out. Then there is all the political correctness crap that has forced schools to put special needs children in with the general population when they may not be able to handle it. I remember ini school we had a special ed classroom in elm. school. You went into that room and you never came out until jr. high. Yes, you had the same teacher every year. Yes, Mr had to teach multipal grades. He never had more than 20 students a year as well. The man was good at what he did. I wonder today how he did it. But the point was, the kids had a teacher that could and knew how to deal with the crap that these kids put teachers and parents through. The thing is, he didn't have many problems out of any of the kids in there. And he enjoyed his job. I think that makes a big difference in the kids. Georga Your purchase of Usborne Books will help the Marine Corps and Toys for Tots. Please visit www.ubah.com/HOS12159 Register to win $50 in free books. Visit www.ubah.com/F1549 Start your own Usborne Home Business in November for only $34.95! Ask me how! Re: restraining children > > It happens because school systems are lazy and don't want to take the time, > energy or money to deal with autistic children in a way that will benefit > the children in the long run. When you restrain a child for every little > thing that comes along (the way my son is restrained) then you teach the > child that it's the bigger and stronger person who wins. Sissi~ I mean no disrespect, but I am so offended by the statements you made above I can't beleive it. I understand that you are having a hard time with your particular school and teachers, but there are teachers out there who give a damn. I do use restraint as a last measure if my staff, my other students or myself are in danger. I certainly DO NOT restrain a child for every little reason and NOT because I am lazy. It disgusts me to think this is how the parents of the kids I love as much as my own and cry about their accomplishments as much as their parents, would ever have such horrid thoughs about me. Almost everything I read on here about teachers is bashing, and it breaks my heart to know that this is how parents really view teachers as a whole. Amy mom to Noah 6 Lucas 8 ASD's Special ed Teacher with HEART Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 > Amy, > I really have nothing against teachers in general. I know that there are some very good teachers out there. In a perfect would I would have enough money to hire a friend of ours (4th grade teacher) to be a full time tutor for our kids for homeschooling but that isn't going to happen anytime soon. > > What I have a problem with is the adminstrative side of schools in general. Teachers, I feel, are prevented in general from doing their jobs in a lot of cases because of adminstrative bullshit that goes on with everyone above them. A principal tells a teacher that you handle situation X with punishment protocol 9 (Star Trek joke there....punishment protocol 9 is standing in the corner) and that is just the way that the school deals with situation X because this came up before and the admistrative staff came up with this as the best solution (after consulting the voices in their heads). Doesn't matter that the teacher doesn't feel that is right, that is what must be done. > > And, lets face it, kids being kids are going to act different in school than they do at home. A parent doesn't know what is going on at school (especially in the cases where the teachers send home vague reports) and when the IEP comes around the teachers are saying that ny throws his books across the room four times a day the parent sits there and says that he doesn't do that at home. Does anyone address WHY ny is throwing his books (in some IEPS maybe, in others probably not, depends on who is running them, the attitudes of those people, if they want to be there, if they want to get it over quickly, etc), the teacher pretty much, at the end of her rope, just wants to know what to do to make it stop and the parent is trying to understand either why it is happening or what in the world the teacher is talking about since she never sees it. > > Unfortunatly there are teachers in schools who don't really want to teach. They lost the zest for it (or they are like the teacher I had my sophmore year in high school that was going senile and we pushed him into retirement...don't ask) and it is just a paycheck for them. There are people in every field like that. They go in, want to get it over as soon as possible, and get out. > > Then there is all the political correctness crap that has forced schools to put special needs children in with the general population when they may not be able to handle it. I remember ini school we had a special ed classroom in elm. school. You went into that room and you never came out until jr. high. Yes, you had the same teacher every year. Yes, Mr had to teach multipal grades. He never had more than 20 students a year as well. The man was good at what he did. I wonder today how he did it. But the point was, the kids had a teacher that could and knew how to deal with the crap that these kids put teachers and parents through. The thing is, he didn't have many problems out of any of the kids in there. And he enjoyed his job. I think that makes a big difference in the kids. > Jorga~ AMEN!!! thanks for putting it all so eloquently. Amy mom to Noah 6 Lucas 8 ASD's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Your welcome Amy. Georga Register to win $50 in free books. Visit www.ubah.com/F1549 Start your own Usborne Home Business in November for only $34.95! Ask me how! Jorga~ AMEN!!! thanks for putting it all so eloquently. Amy mom to Noah 6 Lucas 8 ASD's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 > **** AMEN....Do you know what my calssroom budget is for all supplies > for an entire year is ? $130. That is supposed to pay for all > materials for the whole year. If I want to do something special for > my kids it comes out of my pocket. I have already paid a good $100 > out of pocket and its we aren't even to Xmas. That right there seems to bring a lot of it in focus. Imagine if you were one of those teachers who didn't have the training, didn't know much about ASD, and had no professional support in regards to autism. Imagine you didn't have two ASD kids of your own. So there you are, working so hard for these kids, and it seems like nothing is getting through. You bust yourself on this meagre budget and out of your own pocket to do your best by them, and not only do they seem not to appreciate it, they don't even seem to know or care anything about you. It would be VERY EASY to become bitter and resentful in that situation, and become exactly the wrong kind of teacher for these kids. Noone without ASD experience and/or training should be teaching our kids. ASD children are VERY hard to understand and handle, and could push an inexperienced adult to the limits of self-control in no time flat. When bitching about teachers no one thinks of you, Amy. I know that in my mind, you are not 'one of them' because you are one of us. We know any of our children would be safe and nurtured in your classroom because you have an understanding of them that not many teachers have. That being said, there are also teachers out there with no prior ASD experience who are eager and willing to learn. 's kindergarten teacher was one of them. Once was in her class, she went to seminars and training on ASD and read books and learned all she could. But Sissi's teacher, Boone's teacher, said to her, " He can't even wipe himself. " THAT is a different attitude entirely. As in any profession, there are people who truly love what they do, and people who just don't have what it takes but somehow got the job anyway. Some of us are lucky to get the first, some are constantly doing battle with the second. Jacquie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 > So I am guessing the parents of your students dont hate or dislike > you. But as always we are here for support and so alot of the time > you will be hearing the bad things that happen to us and our children and teachers are a big part of this. > jacquie H > Unfortunately this is true. While we might say something in passing about the good teachers we come in contact with, those aren't the ones we need help handling. I haven't said a lot about 's placement this year because it's simply wonderful. She's made tremendous progress and I love her teacher and aides. The county system is SO much better than my local system. What I keep complaining about is the principle and superintendent at my local school and how they're dealing with . The teachers are wonderful and they're trying so very hard. BUT they are so unexperienced and unqualified to deal with a child with his level of disability. The administration doesn't want to provide the support they need. So what am I going to ask for help with, the wonderful teacher or the school system that's fighting me every step of the way? It's not teachers in general that we complain about Amy. I'm sure Jacquie's right. Your students' parents probably love you and are very grateful for the effort and time you put in with their children. Tina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Both! Please! I came up with one hold that was secure that I could use standing up or carrying her. It was useful when she lost it in stores and other public places, or for carrying her upstairs during a tantrum. I put one arm between her legs, and one arm around her chest with her left arm between her body and my upper arm and the other arm held by my left hand. Her head rested on my upper left arm and she was facing out. My right hand grasped her left hand. In this way she was unable to headbutt me, bite me, hit or scratch me, or kick me. I was under complete control of her. Only, now she can get out of this hold. Don't ask me how! I can't hold her this way anymore. Maybe she has gotten too tall for it to work. I don't know. It just doesn't work anymore. I read about another one where you sit behind the child and wrap your legs around her legs and wrap your arms around her arms. This worked a few times, but then she figured out how to slither out from under me. You know how mice have those bones that collapse and allow them to squeeze through little tiny holes? That's Annmarie! I think I need at least 3 things: 1) A way to manage these tantrums once they are going; 2) An intellectual understanding of what is going on within her at that time; and, 3) How to head them off without her being in total control of our family at all times. Any advice, insight, recommendations, etc. VERY appreciated! TIA, (still working on a way to tantrum-proof Annmarie's room) > , > I'm not sure if you want " safe " ways to restrain Annmarie or other > options, or both? I could give you some ideas if you let me know > what you want. > > Kep is 5 and weighs 70 lbs, so believe me, I KNOW! > > > Amy H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Sissi, I am sorry. I guess I missed your son having been restrained at school. You are absolutely right that the schools should know effective strategies for dealing with out of control behaviors and how to implement them. You also have an excellent point about the message that " might makes right " . I was only thinking of keeping the child safe, not using restraint as a punishment, which it sounds like you are describing. That makes me feel ill. I thought there were laws against corporal punishment in schools. Where did that go? I feel really helpless right now. I can't teach my daughter to use a spoon or the toilet. How can I possibly teach her to manage her emotions responsibly? But you are right. The schools should know. And they apparently don't. I think we are both saying the same thing, and I probably did not express myself well. That is, the schools are not doing their jobs when it comes to managing these difficult behaviors. > > > I am so dismayed about the thread about the schools restraining > > > children. It is unconscenable, yet I can understand how it can happen. > > > It happens because school systems are lazy and don't want to take the time, > energy or money to deal with autistic children in a way that will benefit > the children in the long run. When you restrain a child for every little > thing that comes along (the way my son is restrained) then you teach the > child that it's the bigger and stronger person who wins. > > Not a good lesson to teach a 65 pound 5YO with autism. In ten years my son > will be very large and will end up in an institution if this is allowed to > continue. > > This kid in Houston has probably been restrained in a manner similar to the > way my son is restrained. He's too big for them to simply overpower now. > This proves that it's WRONG. There is no understanding (on my part) for > laziness and incompetence. Boone sees restraint and shouting as violence. > Violence is something he does not tolerate well. > > It will continue only over my dead body. > > Sissi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 I have to restrain Liesel often, usually because she is just about the attack Freyja. I wrap my arms and legs around her while I talk to her she is still free to move about, she is still able to bite me but nowadays I show no emotion when she does this and it's become rare. Emotionally she is still around the 18 month mark and it's tough going. She is so strong too and it takes me all my strength to keep a hold on her. I would not be happy for school to do this, I would much prefer they removed her from the situation to protect other children. Luckily so far she has never had a major melt down in school. Gosh we never thought we would be discussing issues like this! Louisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 > I have to restrain Liesel often, usually because she is just about > the attack Freyja. > I would not be happy for school to do this, I would much prefer they > removed her from the situation to protect other children. Louisa~ I don't understand....Its okay for you to restain her (OFTEN as you said above)to protect just 1 child, but you wouldn't be happy if the school did it to protect numerous children? That's seems odd to me, but everyone seems to see things differently. Amy mom to Noah 6 Lucas 8 ASD's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 this is just a light hearted antecdote on some teachers and their knowledge of ASD. rowan's teacher is a hoot - picture this - older then the hills - 39 years teaching experience you do the math. this summer she got a face lift and her varicose veins removed from her legs. she wears alot of " tommy girl " clothes as well as leather pants, skirts etc. so now you have a visual image of her. she has been teaching since long before teachers weren't supposed to touch children let alone hug and kiss them - which she does. everyone is her " honeybun " - students, parents and colleagues alike. anyway, i had to laugh the first time i met her because she said " now michelle, i want you to provide me with as much information as you can. this is something i know nothing about. i have never taught an autistic child before. " to which i replied " oh, i am sure you have! maybe you just didn't know it! there is no way statistically you can have taught 4 and 5 year olds for the past 39 years and not have! " this is rowan's second year with this teacher (she teaches junior and senior kindergarten) and she now has THREE autistic students 2 in JK and rowan in SK. let me tell you - she is the biggest advocate for support for these children. her motivation is really that she doesn't want to take responsibility for them (she admits this)but i don't care what her motivation is - she goes to bat for these kids like nobody else! michelle Re: Re: restraining children > **** AMEN....Do you know what my calssroom budget is for all supplies > for an entire year is ? $130. That is supposed to pay for all > materials for the whole year. If I want to do something special for > my kids it comes out of my pocket. I have already paid a good $100 > out of pocket and its we aren't even to Xmas. That right there seems to bring a lot of it in focus. Imagine if you were one of those teachers who didn't have the training, didn't know much about ASD, and had no professional support in regards to autism. Imagine you didn't have two ASD kids of your own. So there you are, working so hard for these kids, and it seems like nothing is getting through. You bust yourself on this meagre budget and out of your own pocket to do your best by them, and not only do they seem not to appreciate it, they don't even seem to know or care anything about you. It would be VERY EASY to become bitter and resentful in that situation, and become exactly the wrong kind of teacher for these kids. Noone without ASD experience and/or training should be teaching our kids. ASD children are VERY hard to understand and handle, and could push an inexperienced adult to the limits of self-control in no time flat. When bitching about teachers no one thinks of you, Amy. I know that in my mind, you are not 'one of them' because you are one of us. We know any of our children would be safe and nurtured in your classroom because you have an understanding of them that not many teachers have. That being said, there are also teachers out there with no prior ASD experience who are eager and willing to learn. 's kindergarten teacher was one of them. Once was in her class, she went to seminars and training on ASD and read books and learned all she could. But Sissi's teacher, Boone's teacher, said to her, " He can't even wipe himself. " THAT is a different attitude entirely. As in any profession, there are people who truly love what they do, and people who just don't have what it takes but somehow got the job anyway. Some of us are lucky to get the first, some are constantly doing battle with the second. Jacquie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 Amy - I think we all realize that there ARE good teachers who care and are NOT lazy....My Gawd, there would have to be. Unfortunately, there is SO much mis-information and teachers are SO uneducated about Autism, that we, as parents see what we see! There ARE lazy teachers. There ARE teachers that don't give a damn. There ARE teachers that don't understand Autism. There ARE educators that don't understand the Law. These kids are our BABIES. And when some of us SEE and EXPERIENCE the inadequacy with our own eyes, (and believe me, Sissi has seen MORE than her share), then YES, we become VERY jaded. Thank GOODNESS there are teachers like you who " get it " . I wish there were more. Restraining is a very " specific " aversive. I'll bet you everything I own that the majority of people who " restrain " our kids don't do it the right way, AND on top of that DON'T get to the heart of the problem. Please don't be offended....Unfortunately, this IS the way it is in many, many places. Sad but true. Penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 Now THERE is a smart, creative solution! Penny Re: restraining children My aunt's friend is a teacher at the school where Andy should be going to next year (hopefully). It is a mainstream school with a separate autism class. My aunt's friend is the teacher in charge. They have a room specifically for melt downs. They are not allowed to restrain the child. This room has padding on the walls, the door and the floor. There are soft play toys and bean bags (and the like there). This room was built after a student kicked my aunt's friend on the back of the head. She was knocked out for about 10 minutes and she also sustained nerve damage (she still takes dizzy spells and has tingling in her fingers). There is a small window (with shaterproof safety plastic), so that the teacher can keep an eye on the child while they are having a meltdown. Since this room was built, no child has caused another an injury and no child has hurt themselves during a meltdown. Ali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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