Re: The Saga of Putter's school troubles, Part MCM

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/16/02 3:01:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, khan39@...

writes:

> is only 3 now, but I do not want to have to send an aide to school

> with her when she goes to 1st grade, so I have made social skills a

> priortity for her.

will be three in July... if you could tell me how you did " social

skills " I was be very grateful.

G

[Guest guest]

Salli, Jake's IEP very clearly states when he'll be in the sped class and when

in reg ed. I was afraid of the same thing. Last year, Jake was in sped ed in

the morning for kinder, then with a regular kinder class with an aide in the

afternoon. His IEP said that's where he was to be, and he was, unless the

teachers cleared it with me first.

I knew Jake needed the reg ed kinder class for the socialization. Academically,

he was ahead of them (he was the only one who could read at the beginning of the

year). The other kids were in awe of him because he could easily do things

which they were struggling with. The spec ed class was able to build on his

strengths, reading, writing, and math, so I actually feel he learned more with

this arrangement.

For first grade, we will see. His IEP was written with the assumption that Jake

would be attending the same school, but the district, in their great wisdom,

created another ABC class (there was only one in the district, this was Jake's

spec ed class) and placed it at Jake's home school. The IEP doesnt change (so

they tell me, but I think I will have to fight to make sure they observe it) but

I will have to deal with completely new teachers. Ironically, this is the same

school which I just transferred out of.

Janae

, 9, ADD

Jake, 6, autism

[Guest guest]

Salli - If it helps you at all, will be attending a regular

ECSE pre-school program in the fall, instead of an autism

classroom. She still has behavior problems and serious attention

problems, but her social skills have come so far that I feel that if

I keep her in the autism classroom, she will not be challenged as

much as she could be. She has had the same wonderful teacher since

she started services at 22 months old and her teacher helped to

train the teacher in the new classroom, so I will have faith that

the lord has a plan. is only 3 now, but I do not want to have

to send an aide to school with her when she goes to 1st grade, so I

have made social skills a priortity for her. I don't care what she

learns, as long as she can function in a normal classroom setting.

If she only gets c's and d's, than I will live with that, as the

only way she seems to learn now is one on one and repetition, but

with the ratio in the ECSE program, she will not be getting the one

on one - I am doing this with the reservation that if she does not

progress or shows any signs of regression, than we will have the

option of going back to the autism classroom, but it is more

important to me that she function in our world, instead of her own,

which is my fear about continuing her in the autism classroom. My

priority for her now is that she learn to be independant, not

dependant. While I hope someday, she will be capible of becoming a

rocket scientist or whatever she chooses, how she learns is more

important to me, than what she learns. If I don't give her the

opportunity to grow, would I forever question my decision?

[Guest guest]

She still has behavior problems and serious attention

> problems, but her social skills have come so far that I feel that if

> I keep her in the autism classroom, she will not be challenged as

> much as she could be.

:

The ONLY reason that I have Putter in school at all is for social skills.

The school that has the AI classroom though would offer Putter a regular

classroom as well, but it would not be our neighborhood school.

But I am afraid that if the AI classroom is too available then Putter will

spend too much time in it. But the same thing could happen at his

neighborhood school. He might spend all his time in the special ed room

where the teacher is a learning disabled teacher (and learning disabled is

one thing that Putter is not) rather than an AI classroom where the teacher

would understand Putter better.

Would starting out at Angling Road school and then finding it was not right

for him hurt Putter? I have no idea. Is it better to go for the least

restrictive environment right at the beginning and move to more restrictive

if necessary? Or is it better to move from most restrictive (which is his

current placement) to gradually less and less restrictive environments.

The problem is that both those solutions would be right for one child and

not another and it is pretty hard to tell where Putter will do best without

actually placing him there.

I strongly agree that he will not learn social skills well from his AI

classmates, but if both schools can provide the typical peers for him?

I just don't know.

Salli

[Guest guest]

-Salli,

It sounds like the school with the AI classroom and regular ed sounds

more friendly in terms of integration. I think an IEP can mandate the

number of hours spent in general ed per day. The angling school might

harrass you if Putter has even what they perceive as the slightest

infraction. On the other hand, if you get him into the school through

legal means they may bend over backwards to accomodate him.

Thea

-- In parenting_autism@y..., " bunnytiner " <bunnytiner@c...> wrote:

> She still has behavior problems and serious attention

> > problems, but her social skills have come so far that I feel that

if

> > I keep her in the autism classroom, she will not be challenged as

> > much as she could be.

>

> :

>

> The ONLY reason that I have Putter in school at all is for social

skills.

> The school that has the AI classroom though would offer Putter a

regular

> classroom as well, but it would not be our neighborhood school.

>

> But I am afraid that if the AI classroom is too available then

Putter will

> spend too much time in it. But the same thing could happen at his

> neighborhood school. He might spend all his time in the special ed

room

> where the teacher is a learning disabled teacher (and learning

disabled is

> one thing that Putter is not) rather than an AI classroom where the

teacher

> would understand Putter better.

>

> Would starting out at Angling Road school and then finding it was

not right

> for him hurt Putter? I have no idea. Is it better to go for the

least

> restrictive environment right at the beginning and move to more

restrictive

> if necessary? Or is it better to move from most restrictive

(which is his

> current placement) to gradually less and less restrictive

environments.

>

> The problem is that both those solutions would be right for one

child and

> not another and it is pretty hard to tell where Putter will do

best without

> actually placing him there.

>

> I strongly agree that he will not learn social skills well from his

AI

> classmates, but if both schools can provide the typical peers for

him?

>

> I just don't know.

>

> Salli

[Guest guest]

If you pot a plant in a planter, where it has no room to grow roots,

it will probably not thrive and grow. If you plant it where it has

the most sunshine, water and nutrients, it may still not thrive as

it gets too much water, or too much sunshine or the wrong

nutrients. Better to plant where there is the best opportunity to

grow and if you have to, adjust the mix - shade it if necessary,

protect it from some of the water, or try a different fertilizer,

but I would always choose the opportunity where it has the most room

to grow - just my theory for also.

You have been educating the teachers the whole time Putter has been

in school - if the special ed teacher at the local school needs to

learn, than I cannot think of a better mother to help her. Also, if

he goes to the neighborhood school, won't his classmates be closer

and hopefully give him more opportunities to socialize?

But than too, I agree that Putter isn't and you know what is

best for him.

> She still has behavior problems and serious attention

> > problems, but her social skills have come so far that I feel

that if

> > I keep her in the autism classroom, she will not be challenged as

> > much as she could be.

>

> :

>

> The ONLY reason that I have Putter in school at all is for social

skills.

> The school that has the AI classroom though would offer Putter a

regular

> classroom as well, but it would not be our neighborhood school.

>

> But I am afraid that if the AI classroom is too available then

Putter will

> spend too much time in it. But the same thing could happen at his

> neighborhood school. He might spend all his time in the special

ed room

> where the teacher is a learning disabled teacher (and learning

disabled is

> one thing that Putter is not) rather than an AI classroom where

the teacher

> would understand Putter better.

>

> Would starting out at Angling Road school and then finding it was

not right

> for him hurt Putter? I have no idea. Is it better to go for the

least

> restrictive environment right at the beginning and move to more

restrictive

> if necessary? Or is it better to move from most restrictive

(which is his

> current placement) to gradually less and less restrictive

environments.

>

> The problem is that both those solutions would be right for one

child and

> not another and it is pretty hard to tell where Putter will do

best without

> actually placing him there.

>

> I strongly agree that he will not learn social skills well from

his AI

> classmates, but if both schools can provide the typical peers for

him?

>

> I just don't know.

>

> Salli

[Guest guest]

> The angling school might harrass you if Putter has even what they perceive as

the slightest infraction. <

that's a good point. do you really want him going somewhere that they so

obviously don't want him? i mean, look at all the trouble heather's having!

" Something important to remember...we'll always be who we are. " - Mr.

[Guest guest]

salli,

what do YOU want?

nevermind lou, or angela, or theresa, or anybody

just YOU

" Something important to remember...we'll always be who we are. " - Mr.

[Guest guest]

> salli,

> what do YOU want?

:

If I knew, truly, there would be no problem. All the goals I have for

Putter I think he would share with me. I want him to be happy. I want him

to find a way to use his fine but autistic mind. And I want him to be

independent.

How it is to be achieved, I do not know.

If it weren't for the social stuff, I'd homeschool him and let him teach

himself and he would enjoy that. But he does need people exposure, I think.

I can see either arrangement working out and I can see either arrangement

failing.

I just need to think on it a bit more.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> If it weren't for the social stuff, I'd homeschool him and let him teach

himself and he would enjoy that. But he does need people exposure, I think. <

ok, first of all, i think you know just how much sociability is actually allowed

in school. it's not really all it's cracked up to be. that being said, i have

two ideas...

the first idea would be half day at school, half day at home. he would do his

academics at home and he would only go to school for such things as art, music,

gym, etc. i don't know if that's an option there, but i've heard of such things

happening.

the second idea would be to keep him home and get him involved in as many social

groups as you and he could stand. he's already in t-ball, swimming, and sunday

school. you could do story time at the library, maybe a playgroup at the park,

those kinds of things. then you're free to do his academics as you wish and he

still has social opportunities without the school being involved.

i'd seriously suggest for you to try one of these ideas, see how it goes for a

year, or even a few months, and then rethink your options. if it's working out,

fine. if it's not, then maybe you'll know better where he might belong.

good luck to you, whatever you decide

" Something important to remember...we'll always be who we are. " - Mr.

[Guest guest]

> > If it weren't for the social stuff, I'd homeschool him and let him teach

himself and he would enjoy that. But he does need people exposure, I think.

<

>

> ok, first of all, i think you know just how much sociability is actually

allowed in school.

Yeah, well, I do know that.

it's not really all it's cracked up to be. that being said, i have two

ideas...

>

> the first idea would be half day at school, half day at home. he would do

his academics at home and he would only go to school for such things as art,

music, gym, etc. i don't know if that's an option there, but i've heard of

such things happening.

>

Most things can probably be an option. And this is kind of what Putter's

psychologist wants for him

> the second idea would be to keep him home and get him involved in as many

social groups as you and he could stand. he's already in t-ball, swimming,

and sunday school. you could do story time at the library, maybe a playgroup

at the park, those kinds of things. then you're free to do his academics as

you wish

I worry about this solution because it is what I did with Enrique and I am

not sure that it was the best decision, given how things turned out.

Sometimes I think if I had got him into school before he fell apart with

adolescence that then he would have coped better with school just because he

would be used to it.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> I worry about this solution because it is what I did with Enrique and I am not

sure that it was the best decision, given how things turned out. Sometimes I

think if I had got him into school before he fell apart with adolescence that

then he would have coped better with school just because he would be used to it.

Salli <

yes, i knew that would be a worry, and it's a good one, but putter is only 6, he

has PLENTY of years of school ahead of him. if you decided to keep him home now,

that doesn't mean he'll be home forever

" Something important to remember...we'll always be who we are. " - Mr.

[Guest guest]

I love how you write Salli!!! Your Putter stories are so very entertainging,and

when framed as such, are all the more fun to read!

" To be nobody-but-yourself - in a world which is doing its

best night and day to make you everybody else - means to

fight the hardest battle any human being can fight; and

never stop fighting. " - E.E. Cummings

, mom to , 4, AS, ADHD; and , 2, NT

The Saga of Putter's school troubles, Part MCM

In our last episode, our hero, Putter, was being refused permission to attend

his neighborhood school, the School of Angling Road, against all IDEA

regulations.

The parents of Putter sought the help of the Lady Advocate for the

Developmentally Disabled. This Lady Advocate, a noble woman, said, " This

cannot be! It is illegal! "

And she harried the evil school officials until they agreed to come and watch

Putter in his classroom even though the Evil Schools of the Portage District had

closed their portals for the summer.

Putter looked exceptionally cute and charming. He said " Hello " to the Evil

School Officials who viewed him, naturally without looking at them because one

only looks at Fools of Neurotypicality when one is teasing them or when one has

observed that there is a Starburst candy stuck to their foreheads. And only

then if it is a red Starburst candy.

Lady Theresa, Teacher of Putter, met with the anxious Mother of Putter

immediately afterwards and she said, speaking from her heart, " I do not have

good feelings about this. They were so brusque and short and Putter will need

them to be on his side if The School of Angling Road is going to work. I am

terribly afraid that they are setting him up to fail. "

The Mother of Putter, a woman of great wisdom and common sense, said, " Oh,

dear. "

And then she thought about it and she could see that LadyTheresa truly cared

about Putter. But still all her great knowledge of Putter did not tell her what

was the right choice to make.

And Lady Theresa, Teacher of Putter, said, " We can get him any kind of support

that he needs in the Class of the Autistic Impaired and he can still go to the

Class of Neurotypicality, but if things go wrong there will be a place that

understands him to support him. "

" Could he have an aide even in the Class of the Autistic Impaired? " wondered

the worried Mother of Putter, and LadyTheresa said he could.

Hurrying anxiously and followed by a wicked little sprite named Robbie, the

Mother of Putter and Lady Theresa, the Teacher of Putter both hastened to the

office of Lady , the Consultant of Teachers of Autistic Children. They

had an impromptu meeting.

Lady , wise in both the ways of the Autistic and the ways of Those of

Neurotypicality as well as the Evil ways of the Evil School Districts of the

Entire Evil County of Kalamazoo, refused to give a definite opinion, but she

said she would offer support to Putter wherever he was placed.

The Mother of Putter saw a serious problem in putting Putter in the Class of

the Autistic Impaired. This was the Father of Putter, a man of great pride, who

was widely known for his wicked acts, but who actually did love the charming

Putter in his own Syndrome of Asperger way. He hated the Class of the Autistic

Impaired and was ashamed to have his son placed there and he was not known for

his flexible ways or, indeed, for ever changing his mind.

The Mother of Putter suggested that Lady and Lady Theresa meet with the

Father of Putter and attempt to persuade him, especially Lady Theresa, a comely

maiden, for whom the Father of Putter, a susceptible man, might do much.

All this came to pass and all, alas, was as the Mother of Putter fearfully

foresaw. The Father of Putter was completely opposed to the idea of placing

Putter in the Class of the Autistic Impaired. He felt that the Evil School

District of Portage MUST support Putter, that the principle of the thing was of

utmost importance. " The knaves! " he shouted, " They shall not get away with

this! "

Then he stormed off to cry on the shoulder of the Lady Advocate for the

Developmentally Disabled (perhaps another comely maiden? The Mother of Putter

has not met her yet, only spoken with her over the phone.)

And the Lady Advocate for the Developmentally Disabled fiercely recommended

forcing the schools to comply to the fullness of the IDEA laws or it would be

the worse for them.

When the Mother of Putter related this tale to the Psychologist of Putter, the

Psychologist of Putter agreed with the Father of Putter. The Psychologist of

Putter is no admirer of the Father of Putter, for she knows well his Syndrome of

Asperger nature, so this greatly surprised the Mother of Putter. But the

Psychologist of Putter said if Putter ever darkens the doors of the Class of the

Autistic Impaired, he will never come out again and he will remain in the

Education for the Special for all the days of his life.

The Mother of Putter was not sure this was true.

And Psychologist of Putter replied that with fierce and constant vigilance of

the Evil Public School DIstrict, that the Mother of Putter could counteract the

effects of their evil actions and spend all her days fighting and arguing with

them. And she added that it would be good.

And besides, she added, " Putter is so cute. "

And Mother of Putter knew that it was so, and that Putter was indeed of High

Cuteness, but was not sure that the school would find him to be of High Cuteness

when he danced naked upon the top of a desk, nor would they find him of High

Cuteness when he fell on his back in a Tantrum of Loud and Passionate Screaming,

Kicking and Biting. Many were the cute children at the school but the actions

of Putter were more wicked than any of those cute children.

" We must fight. " said the Father of Putter.

" You must fight, " said the Lady Advocate of the Developmentally Disabled.

" You must fight, " said Psychologist of Putter.

" You must put Putter where he will be happy, " said Lady Theresa, Teacher of

Putter

" You must do as you think best, " said Lady , Consultant of Teachers.

" You have not followed our procedures, " said The Evil Directors of the Equally

Evil Public School System of Portage, " You must follow our procedures. "

And the Mother of Putter felt very tired.

And she still did not know what to do.

And that is where our saga sits today, the Sixteenth of June, in the year of

Our Lord, MMII.

Salli

[Guest guest]

Salli, I am loathe to agree with Lou especially now that I have

heard the saga of what a lowlife he is, but I think I would try the

local school first and try to educate them about what Putter needs.

Yes, they probably already have their minds set about him, but they

haven't met the real Mr. Putt or the real Ms. Salli yet either. I

wouldn't encourage experimentation at the risk of harm to Putter, but

these neighborhood schools are going to need education about our kids

and methods to educate them. It's the law. Our kids don't have

heads that spin or three eyes, they are real children who need the

best they have to offer. If we keep going away and letting them push

us around, we aren't getting what our kids deserve. If his local

school can't provide it, then I'd request a transfer to another

school where they have AI services, but I'd try the least restrictive

one first. And I wouldn't sign the IEP unless I was satisfied that it

was written to provide what Putter needs. Just my 2cents. Leggs

[Guest guest]

*sigh*

<<But the Psychologist of Putter said if Putter ever darkens the doors of

the Class of the Autistic Impaired, he will never come out again and he will

remain in the Education for the Special for all the days of his life.

The Mother of Putter was not sure this was true.<<

I have *heard* that once a child is placed in a special needs classroom, the

school district does NOT *have* to allow that child back into mainstream

classrooms. This is something you will want to be sure of. I am not very

clear on it myself and that is really all I know. It sounds as if the

Psychologist of Putter may be more familiar with the thing.

Do you think LOU would be willing to do the fighting parts? (How effective

this might be at releiving you of some stress and

responsibility...well...hrm.)

Good luck...

-Sara.

[Guest guest]

> I have *heard* that once a child is placed in a special needs classroom,

the

> school district does NOT *have* to allow that child back into mainstream

> classrooms.

Well, Putter is currently in a special needs classroom. In fact, he is in

the most restrictive environment right now (an AI classroom in a special

education SCHOOL). So I don't think that is a big issue.

> Do you think LOU would be willing to do the fighting parts? (How

effective

> this might be at releiving you of some stress and

> responsibility...well...hrm.)

>

>

Lou would be most willing to fight, but...how can I say this...he irritates

people. When Lou fights, he is very adversarial, very certain he is right,

very unwilling to compromise and quite tactless (because he is right, after

all, and why should he be polite to people who are wrong).

When I fight I am nice, nice, nice and I tend to get my way.

Salli

[Guest guest]

>>Lou would be most willing to fight, but...how can I say this...he

irritates

people. When Lou fights, he is very adversarial, very certain he is right,

very unwilling to compromise and quite tactless (because he is right, after

all, and why should he be polite to people who are wrong).<<

Perhaps this would be good practice for the school as it prepares to

accomodate The Evil Mr. Putt?

Just kidding.

-Sara.

[Guest guest]

> Would starting out at Angling Road school and then finding it was not

right

> for him hurt Putter? I have no idea. Is it better to go for the least

> restrictive environment right at the beginning and move to more

restrictive

> if necessary?

My gut says this one is the way to go.

But I don't know Putter!

I just think that if you started at the public school and then found that is

wasn't the right placement, then you'd know for SURE when to change

placements...whereas if you went the other way, it might be hard to gauge.

???

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

Two words -

Private School

--Penny - who wishes Mother of Putter would not write in the ways of

Biblical writings, as she is in the midst of reading the Women's Daily

Devotional Bible and it is quite taxing.

:-)

[Guest guest]

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From: " Penny " <nospam@p...>

Date: Mon Jun 17, 2002 9:27 pm

Subject: RE: The Saga of Putter's school

troubles, Part MCM

ADVERTISEMENT

Two words -

Private School

~~~~~~~~~

absolutly, if you can get them into a private school.

one word....

Homeschool.

Margo

[Guest guest]

.....and me.

Penny

Re: Re: The Saga of Putter's school

troubles, Part MCM

> The angling school might harrass you if Putter has even what they perceive

as the slightest infraction. <

that's a good point. do you really want him going somewhere that they so

obviously don't want him? i mean, look at all the trouble heather's having!

" Something important to remember...we'll always be who we are. " - Mr.

[Guest guest]

> ....and me.

Penny <

of course! one must NEVER forget penny!

" Something important to remember...we'll always be who we are. " - Mr.

[Guest guest]

> Two words -

>

> Private School

>

> --Penny - who wishes Mother of Putter would not write in the ways of

> Biblical writings, as she is in the midst of reading the Women's Daily

> Devotional Bible and it is quite taxing.

>

Sorry, Penny, it was the only way I could distance myself from the

irritation I felt. Or at least it was the only way I could think of at the

time.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> Salli, I am loathe to agree with Lou especially now that I have

> heard the saga of what a lowlife he is, but I think I would try the

> local school first and try to educate them about what Putter needs.

I am leaning, very slightly, this direction.

> Yes, they probably already have their minds set about him, but they

> haven't met the real Mr. Putt or the real Ms. Salli yet either. I

> wouldn't encourage experimentation at the risk of harm to Putter, but

> these neighborhood schools are going to need education about our kids

> and methods to educate them. It's the law. Our kids don't have

> heads that spin or three eyes, they are real children who need the

> best they have to offer. If we keep going away and letting them push

> us around, we aren't getting what our kids deserve.

True.

If his local

> school can't provide it, then I'd request a transfer to another

> school where they have AI services, but I'd try the least restrictive

> one first.

Thanks, Leggs, and a very good two cents it is!

Salli

[Guest guest]

What about a Charter Homeschool? All the academics are done at home, it's

run by the public school system, and all they still have social activities,

extra-curricular activities, etc.

Penny