Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Call the fire department. Have them advance a hoseline fogging the bees with foam. Another should be behind them, fogging THEM with foam. Mike > Killer Bee Attacks > > > Here in southern Arizona there have been two killer bee > attacks, one fatal, > within the last couple of days. > > Does anyone have a protocol or SOP for responding to those > attacks? What > should an arriving EMS crew do? I am not so interested in > treatment after > the patient is secured to a safe place as I am in knowing how > to handle the > problems of getting to the patient and keeping from being attacked. > > In the fatal attack the victim experienced anaphylaxis after > having been > stung at least 80 times. The other 3 individuals are in > varying states of > recovery. > > Thanks for any help. > > Gene Gandy > > > > Gene Gandy, JD, LP > 4250 East Aquarius Drive > Tucson, AZ 85718 > home and fax > cell > wegandy@... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 The Africanized Honey Bee is an aggressive little booger. Our protocol for a bad swarm would be to call our volunteer fire department. On their arrival they would spray the swarm with foam. This I believe kills the bees, or atleast knocks them down with an inability to fly. For those of you interested, the treatment includes standard anaphylatic protocol. I also learned a new trick in treatment. The use of meat tenderizer does a wonderful job of taking out the sting. Mix the meat tenderizer with water, making it a slurry mix, and smear the body with this mix and cover with 4x4's or roller gauze. We have had four known attacks this year in Fisher County. This is the first year that we have had any attacks in our county. s EMT-LP Director Fisher County Hospital EMS wegandy@... wrote:Here in southern Arizona there have been two killer bee attacks, one fatal, within the last couple of days. Does anyone have a protocol or SOP for responding to those attacks? What should an arriving EMS crew do? I am not so interested in treatment after the patient is secured to a safe place as I am in knowing how to handle the problems of getting to the patient and keeping from being attacked. In the fatal attack the victim experienced anaphylaxis after having been stung at least 80 times. The other 3 individuals are in varying states of recovery. Thanks for any help. Gene Gandy Gene Gandy, JD, LP 4250 East Aquarius Drive Tucson, AZ 85718 home and fax cell wegandy@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Gene, We don't have a specific protocal, however, the Fire Dept would respond as well and deal with the swarm, EMS would be staging (Scene safety, crew safety first). Then either the FD would foam the swarm and it would be safe for us to come in, grab the patient and evacuate, or they (all bunkered up and in SCBA) would rescue the patient and deliver to us. Like I said, not a written protocal but how I would operate the scene and how probably all of our crews would too. Lt. K. Wiseman EMT-P EMS 10 / Medic 11 Blue Shift on County EMS bwiseman@... Killer Bee Attacks > Here in southern Arizona there have been two killer bee attacks, one fatal, > within the last couple of days. > > Does anyone have a protocol or SOP for responding to those attacks? What > should an arriving EMS crew do? I am not so interested in treatment after > the patient is secured to a safe place as I am in knowing how to handle the > problems of getting to the patient and keeping from being attacked. > > In the fatal attack the victim experienced anaphylaxis after having been > stung at least 80 times. The other 3 individuals are in varying states of > recovery. > > Thanks for any help. > > Gene Gandy > > > > Gene Gandy, JD, LP > 4250 East Aquarius Drive > Tucson, AZ 85718 > home and fax > cell > wegandy@... > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 AFD has beekeeper suits for use by the companies who resond to bee swarm incidents. Foaming works, I believe, because the bees are unable to breath through the foam. Having grown up on the Texas Gulf Coast, I can tell you from experience with jelly fish stings that meat tenderizer is a nifty home remedy for the pain associated with stings. However, it's not the flavoring that helps, it's the monosodium glutamate (MSG) in the meat tenderizer that does the trick. The reason i bring this up is because I don't think all " meat tenderizers " contain MSG, and also because you can purchase a huge bottle of generic MSG for the price of a small jar of a name-brand product. FYI, you might also look at the active ingedient in those sting swab products in which you crush the ampule, soak the included cotton swab, and swab the sting site. If memory serves, the active ingredient is something like 97% ammonia and 3% green food coloring. stay safe - pr __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Hey Gene! When the " killer bees " first started making headlines the knee jerk reaction was to organize and hold training sessions as to handle these situations. Different instructors/experts offered several different opinions regarding procedural issues. A few things remained a constant from instructor to instructor. They are: Use a hoseline with either an in-line eductor or compressed air foam system. Foams that can be used include standard class A (glorified dishwashing detergent), protein based foams, or AFFF (expensive). The foam does not kill the bee. It only acts as a surfactant to the wings which restricts flight and not the ability to crawl up your shorts and get ya were it really hurts. You will need to be able to clear a path to the patient with brooms, sweeps, ect... and be able to protect yourself while removing the still fully alive and really mad now little devils. They suggested using a small whisk type brush to minimize contact while wearing turn-outs with leather gloves. Remember, bees can crawl after flight and you will be amazed how far they can travel in a short amount of time. They recommended moving the patient at least 150 feet away from scene. Continue to spray foam in the area as you will not get all the bees with your initial attack. Expect at least 25% of the swarm to remain airborne and capable of additional attacks. Everyone on scene should be wearing turn-outs with gloves and some sort of face protection. Persons with known bee/wasp allergies should not be allowed in the scene due to obvious hazards. Also, the Bee Keepers Association has a great video regarding " Killer Bees " that you might want to purchase. Hope that helps! Gates --- message from wegandy@... attached: _____________________________________________________________ -------------------------- GET THE HOTTEST CONTENT & FEATURES Pre-Register Today for Firehouse.com MembersZone http://www.firehouse.com/members/ ------------------------------- Get Your Own Free E-Mail! Firehouse.Com The Web's Community and Resouce for Fire, Rescue and EMS http://www.Firehouse.Com ---------------------------------- Shop Today for Everything Fire/Rescue/EMS From Books, to Tees, to Checks & Code 3 http://www.firehouse.com/shop/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 a pharmacist recently told me when I went in to get my epi pens because of my allery to bee stings shes highly alergic to bee sting too, she said.... as soon as it happens remove the stinger and then spray the sting with anti-perspirant that it will draw the proteins out and I tried this on my daughter after she was stung and within five minutes the swelling was gone and the 5 " diameter of redness was gone also I gave her 50 mg of diphenhydramine (Benadryl) ---- daughter is 13 and this was her first sting and she was showing allergic reaction to the sting yet not anaphylaxis in nature. just my 2 cents.... Belinda EMT-I --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 If you get these protocols or SOP's, please share them with the rest of us. I have an employee that, while working in Stamford, was attacked by killer bees while working for the fire department. Almost died, as I understand it. Even though his current nickname is BeeBoy (lovingly), we would rather not have this happen to our EMS crews if possible. Especially not him!!!!! LOL Jane Killer Bee Attacks > Here in southern Arizona there have been two killer bee attacks, one fatal, > within the last couple of days. > > Does anyone have a protocol or SOP for responding to those attacks? What > should an arriving EMS crew do? I am not so interested in treatment after > the patient is secured to a safe place as I am in knowing how to handle the > problems of getting to the patient and keeping from being attacked. > > In the fatal attack the victim experienced anaphylaxis after having been > stung at least 80 times. The other 3 individuals are in varying states of > recovery. > > Thanks for any help. > > Gene Gandy > > > > Gene Gandy, JD, LP > 4250 East Aquarius Drive > Tucson, AZ 85718 > home and fax > cell > wegandy@... > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 You know, for years I have used the alcohol, meat tenderizer, talcum powder combination for treatment for bee and wasp stings on myself and my kids. It really works. Supposedly the the meat tenderizer breaks down the poison, the alcohol neutralizes it, and then you use talcum powder on the site to absorb the whole mess. Don't know if this is correct or not, but it sure has worked on the kiddos. Jane Hill Re: Killer Bee Attacks > > The Africanized Honey Bee is an aggressive little booger. Our protocol for a bad swarm would be to call our volunteer fire department. On their arrival they would spray the swarm with foam. This I believe kills the bees, or atleast knocks them down with an inability to fly. > For those of you interested, the treatment includes standard anaphylatic protocol. I also learned a new trick in treatment. The use of meat tenderizer does a wonderful job of taking out the sting. Mix the meat tenderizer with water, making it a slurry mix, and smear the body with this mix and cover with 4x4's or roller gauze. > We have had four known attacks this year in Fisher County. This is the first year that we have had any attacks in our county. > s EMT-LP > Director > Fisher County Hospital EMS > wegandy@... wrote:Here in southern Arizona there have been two killer bee attacks, one fatal, > within the last couple of days. > > Does anyone have a protocol or SOP for responding to those attacks? What > should an arriving EMS crew do? I am not so interested in treatment after > the patient is secured to a safe place as I am in knowing how to handle the > problems of getting to the patient and keeping from being attacked. > > In the fatal attack the victim experienced anaphylaxis after having been > stung at least 80 times. The other 3 individuals are in varying states of > recovery. > > Thanks for any help. > > Gene Gandy > > > > Gene Gandy, JD, LP > 4250 East Aquarius Drive > Tucson, AZ 85718 > home and fax > cell > wegandy@... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Wonder how anti-perspirant works. Never heard that one. Jane Re: Killer Bee Attacks > a pharmacist recently told me when I went in to get my epi pens because of my allery to bee stings shes highly alergic to bee sting too, she said.... as soon as it happens remove the stinger and then spray the sting with anti-perspirant that it will draw the proteins out and I tried this on my daughter after she was stung and within five minutes the swelling was gone and the 5 " diameter of redness was gone also I gave her 50 mg of diphenhydramine (Benadryl) ---- daughter is 13 and this was her first sting and she was showing allergic reaction to the sting yet not anaphylaxis in nature. just my 2 cents.... Belinda EMT-I > > > --------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 , Thanks for the input. I agree with meat tenderizer. Also a poultice of baking soda works to draw the poison out. And when I was growing up in the country, you just slapped your chaw on it and that worked. But here's where I'm coming from. Foam is fine. But it's going to come too late to save those who have a severe allergic reaction. I'm wanting to know about equipping trucks in areas with known Africanized bees with bee suits and perhaps inventing some sort of canister that would dispense enough foam to allow a rescue. In one of the rescues that happened near here, the medics had no choice but to talk to the patients over their loudspeaker and tell them to run to the ambulance. One made it, and the other was already in respiratory and circulatory collapse. By the time they were able to get her into a safe place she couldn't be revived. So, yes, I know about foam, and unless it can be deployed immediately it's not going to be of lifesaving value. Any further thoughts? Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Thanks , You're blessed with being able to get the cavalry there in time. What about the poor rural/frontier EMS who manage to get there but have to hold off for precious minutes, sometimes way too long, for FD to get there. Then, how many little rural FDs have foam capability? Just some troubling thoughts. GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Jane, This is off the top of my head and I may not be correct, but in the unlikely event that my memory still serves... I remember there being a difference between a wasp sting and a bee sting. If I'm wrong I hope someone will correct me, but I think wasp venom is acidic and bees alkaline. If that is correct it makes sense that some remedies would work for one and not the other. Baking soda, for instance, would work for a wasp and not a bee. Alkaline aluminum salts are supposed to be beneficial for wasp stings probably because they help neutralize the acidic venom, but probably wouldn't work for bees. Some antiperspirants contain aluminum chlorhydrate as the active ingredient. Hershey's Chocolate powdered drink mix contains aluminum maltol and is supposed to work just as well as antiperspirants. The concoction you mentioned in your last message is similar to one I've used, but without the baking soda. Meat tenderizers work due to an enzyme they contain (papone? parpone? poopon? something like that)that reacts with and breaks down the venom of bee stings. I'm not sure it would work for a wasp, but probably ought to. You have to be a little careful using meat tenderizers though, as they can cause problems of their own. Most of the first aid stuff I've read recommends washing the stuff off within 20 minutes or half an hour to prevent a hypersensitivity reaction, and not using it near the eyes. There are many other old wife's remedies. I've heard of using ammonia, vinegar, pond mud, mule dung, even gasoline. For wasps, the one we used when I was a kid was snuff or chewing tobacco. Just chew up a wad and place the poultice on the sting. I'm not at all sure how it worked, or even if it worked at all, but Granny was convinced. Snuff could be found in most homes back then so was readily available when needed, and it gave Granny an excuse to take a dip - for medicinal purposes only, you understand. Regards, Donn Re: Killer Bee Attacks Wonder how anti-perspirant works. Never heard that one. Jane Re: Killer Bee Attacks > a pharmacist recently told me when I went in to get my epi pens because of my allery to bee stings shes highly alergic to bee sting too, she said.... as soon as it happens remove the stinger and then spray the sting with anti-perspirant that it will draw the proteins out and I tried this on my daughter after she was stung and within five minutes the swelling was gone and the 5 " diameter of redness was gone also I gave her 50 mg of diphenhydramine (Benadryl) ---- daughter is 13 and this was her first sting and she was showing allergic reaction to the sting yet not anaphylaxis in nature. just my 2 cents.... Belinda EMT-I > > > --------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 HeeHee - I remember I was QI'ing a call one time where the crew chewed up tobacco and placed it on a scorpion sting. I asked them where that was in protocol. LOL Jane Hill Re: Killer Bee Attacks > > > > a pharmacist recently told me when I went in to get my epi pens because > of my allery to bee stings shes highly alergic to bee sting too, she > said.... as soon as it happens remove the stinger and then spray the sting > with anti-perspirant that it will draw the proteins out and I tried this on > my daughter after she was stung and within five minutes the swelling was > gone and the 5 " diameter of redness was gone also I gave her 50 mg of > diphenhydramine (Benadryl) ---- daughter is 13 and this was her first sting > and she was showing allergic reaction to the sting yet not anaphylaxis in > nature. just my 2 cents.... Belinda EMT-I > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Scratch the google link in the previous post (for some reason it was truncated in the link). I found it on goggle.com and typed in EMS response to Africanized honey bees. Steve Killer Bee Attacks Here's a link to a google search for EMS response. Hope you might find something useful here. Steve http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & lr= & ie=ISO-8859-1 & q=EMS+response+to+afric anized+honey+bees & btnG=Google+Search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Gene, Never thought about that side of the coin. Sheesh man I live in one of those rural/frontier areas you mentioned with a volunteer FD. So now you have me thinking. 1. In the event of a known call for a bee attack, we should as providers, ask dispatch to roll the closest available VFD. All of our rural fire units carry AFFF foam. However, we must remember that during hot dry spells they may already be tied up on grass fires and such. 2. Anyone remember the water fire extinquishers. Just curious could you rig up it so that you put dishwashing detergent in them before you pressurize with air. (By the way if someone uses this idea...I would like some cut of the money...HAHA) 3. We in areas with africanized bees should develop a written plan of attack and also provide the necessary equipment to keep our employees safe. Whether it be light turnout gear with duct tape or a bee suit. Ok Gene there is some of my thoughts. I appreciate you making me use my brain on this one. s wegandy@... wrote:, Thanks for the input. I agree with meat tenderizer. Also a poultice of baking soda works to draw the poison out. And when I was growing up in the country, you just slapped your chaw on it and that worked. But here's where I'm coming from. Foam is fine. But it's going to come too late to save those who have a severe allergic reaction. I'm wanting to know about equipping trucks in areas with known Africanized bees with bee suits and perhaps inventing some sort of canister that would dispense enough foam to allow a rescue. In one of the rescues that happened near here, the medics had no choice but to talk to the patients over their loudspeaker and tell them to run to the ambulance. One made it, and the other was already in respiratory and circulatory collapse. By the time they were able to get her into a safe place she couldn't be revived. So, yes, I know about foam, and unless it can be deployed immediately it's not going to be of lifesaving value. Any further thoughts? Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & lr= & ie=ISO-8859-1 & q=EMS+response+to+ africanized+honey+bees & btnG=Google+Search> Encase it in slanted brackets. Mike > Killer Bee Attacks > > Here's a link to a google search for EMS response. Hope you > might find something useful here. > > Steve > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & lr= & ie=ISO-8859-1 & q=EMS+response+to+a fric anized+honey+bees & btnG=Google+Search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Hm. That's supposed to work. Looks like the listserver is FORCING linefeeds. Mike > Killer Bee Attacks > > > > Here's a link to a google search for EMS response. Hope you > > might find something useful here. > > > > Steve > > > > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & lr= & ie=ISO-8859-1 & q=EMS+res ponse+to+a fric anized+honey+bees & btnG=Google+Search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 What great information. Thanks, Steve. Jane Hill Killer bee attacks > Gene and all, > > Below is a link to some info on the web from the University of California > Riverside, Department of Entomology regarding the Africanized honey bees. > While reading the topic, I went to google.com and typed in fire department > response to Africanized honey bees. > > Hope this helps, > > Steve M. Boykin, EMT-I > EMS Education Coordinator, Shintech Inc. > > > http://bees.ucr.edu/firenotes.html > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Donn - Could it be that the thought of a poultice of spit-soaked tobacco on your body took your attention off the sting, rather than actually do anything therapeutic? I haven't forgotten about that other thing, either. Sorry for the delay. stay safe - phil > For wasps, the one we used when > I was a kid was snuff or chewing tobacco. Just > chew up a wad and place the > poultice on the sting. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 This concoction is already being widely used, and it works pretty well for small fires in which foam concentrate is indicated (Class A- or B fires). My concern would bee (sorry...couldn't resist...) whether there was enough water/foam mix in an extinguisher to effect the rescue. They generally are filled with 2 1/2 gallons of water. Also, they are generally supplied with a staight stream nozzle, and your fingertip supplies the appropriate " sprinkler " effect. I don't know if this would work for swarming bees or not, and since I carry 500 gallons of water and a foam system, I have no need to experiment. stay safe - phil > 2. Anyone remember the water fire > extinquishers. Just curious could you rig up > it so that you put dishwashing detergent in > them before you pressurize with air. (By the > way if someone uses this idea...I would like > some cut of the money...HAHA) __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 Hello Gene, Living in rural community [no hydrants in my subdivision], our fire department processed for ESD and the voters agreed [after education]. With the upgrade in funding, the FD has ordered new vehicles [all with foam systems], and they are upgrading training and gear. They have discussed a partnership with local exterminators in the past, but not clear on their updated plan of action. When living in rural community, you don't have to go without, but like anything, you get what you pay for. J-B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 Maybe so Phil, but we were taught to take everything Granny said as Gospel. Cause if we didn't, she had some medicine for that too - in the form of a big, leather belt she kept on top of the icebox. And believe me, that's a sting even snuff couldn't cure. Donn RE: Killer Bee Attacks Donn - Could it be that the thought of a poultice of spit-soaked tobacco on your body took your attention off the sting, rather than actually do anything therapeutic? I haven't forgotten about that other thing, either. Sorry for the delay. stay safe - phil > For wasps, the one we used when > I was a kid was snuff or chewing tobacco. Just > chew up a wad and place the > poultice on the sting. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 I didn't argue with the " treatment modalities " of my Grandmother, either, for the same reason. stay safe - phil --- " D.E. " wrote: > Maybe so Phil, but we were taught to take > everything Granny said as Gospel. > Cause if we didn't, she had some medicine for > that too - in the form of a > big, leather belt she kept on top of the > icebox. And believe me, that's a > sting even snuff couldn't cure. > > Donn __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 I just moved here and I missed where exactly the killer bees were... and where they are going. Re: Killer Bee Attacks Hello Gene, Living in rural community [no hydrants in my subdivision], our fire department processed for ESD and the voters agreed [after education]. With the upgrade in funding, the FD has ordered new vehicles [all with foam systems], and they are upgrading training and gear. They have discussed a partnership with local exterminators in the past, but not clear on their updated plan of action. When living in rural community, you don't have to go without, but like anything, you get what you pay for. J-B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2002 Report Share Posted August 4, 2002 To me, bees (especially african honeybees) are just another form of hazmat. The killer bees, I view as a form of hazmat that is aggressive and can chose its direction of travel. No sense in someone becoming another patient, regardless of the sincerity of a good heart. As with any call, the six P's apply, and the best way to intervene is to plan. Sometimes, in spite of our best planning and efforts, people will die. Since most ambulances (that I know of) are not equipped with tanks of water, hoses/nozzles capable of fogging, and foam additive, it would be a good idea to ensure that the dispatch organization knows to coincidently tone out fire/hazmat (and Police couldn't hinder) when a call of this nature comes in. This is no different than having police or SO dispatched coincident to a domestic disturbance requiring EMS. The FD protocols where I vollie have two pages of policy and procedure dedicated to this topic. Aside from the overt (weight the bees down or kill them with foam so they can't fly and then remove, decon, and treat the patient), they call for using the PA system to encourage people to remain in structures or cars until the situation can be controlled. It also calls for notification of governmental offices (County Health Department and Bee Hotline), so that they get thier respective chances to tally and think of how to improve. Just my two cents. Hope it's worth at least that much. Jeff Isbell EMT-I > Here in southern Arizona there have been two killer bee attacks, one fatal, > within the last couple of days. > > Does anyone have a protocol or SOP for responding to those attacks? What > should an arriving EMS crew do? I am not so interested in treatment after > the patient is secured to a safe place as I am in knowing how to handle the > problems of getting to the patient and keeping from being attacked. > > In the fatal attack the victim experienced anaphylaxis after having been > stung at least 80 times. The other 3 individuals are in varying states of > recovery. > > Thanks for any help. > > Gene Gandy > > > > Gene Gandy, JD, LP > 4250 East Aquarius Drive > Tucson, AZ 85718 > home and fax > cell > wegandy@a... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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