Guest guest Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 The blood test does NOT correlate with the salvia or the urine test. There is no way you can correlate those tests. The blood test ONLY takes a snapshot of the amount of cortisol that is in your body at that particular time; while the 2 24 hour tests give you feedback on what levels your cortisol is at over a 24 hour day. -- Re: Re: I am new For the saliva, I have not found a doctor who will order them, most of us get them through DiagnnostTechs. You can go to Canaryclub.org Then I bring those to an M.D. So they can start doing ³their thing² to get me on proper treatment and do testing that is covered by insurance. sue On 9/3/08 7:50 PM, " wildman350smom " <carolb@...> wrote: > > > > Does the dr typically order the saliva tests or is that something i > could purchase over the internet??? or are u just talking about the ph?? > Carol > > >> > >> > The cortisol is not useless it helps a doctor back >> > up the saliva tests and it can also be urine as well as blood. >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 You are not getting my point. The blood test is a useless test and You did state that the blood test was not useless. If you want an accurate reading you NEVER get a blood test. YOU can't compare the 2 tests. Just like the TSH is a useless test. -- Re: I am new > > The cortisol is not useless it helps a doctor back > up the saliva tests and it can also be urine as well as blood. > > I did not specify say, ³morning cortisol, serum² --I gave her the ³things² > she NEEDS tested. > > Any little bit helps to get a doctor to ³SEE² adrenal fatigue. > > IMVHO. > > sue > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 The salvia test you order online and the urine test requires a provider order. But there are only select labs that do the 24 hour urine test. The blood test is worthless. Don't waste your money. Really good thyroid docs NEVER use that blood cortisol test. -- Re: I am new Does the dr typically order the saliva tests or is that something i could purchase over the internet??? or are u just talking about the ph?? Carol > > The cortisol is not useless it helps a doctor back > up the saliva tests and it can also be urine as well as blood. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 hmmmm dr.dan On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:51 AM, Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@... > wrote: > The blood test does NOT correlate with the salvia or the urine test. > There > is no way you can correlate those tests. The blood test ONLY takes a > snapshot of the amount of cortisol that is in your body at that particular > time; while the 2 24 hour tests give you feedback on what levels your > cortisol is at over a 24 hour day. > > -- Re: Re: I am new > > For the saliva, I have not found a doctor who will order them, most of us > get them through DiagnnostTechs. > You can go to Canaryclub.org > > Then I bring those to an M.D. So they can start doing ³their thing² to get > me on proper treatment and do testing that is covered by insurance. > > sue > > On 9/3/08 7:50 PM, " wildman350smom " <carolb@... <carolb%40enter.net>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Does the dr typically order the saliva tests or is that something i > > could purchase over the internet??? or are u just talking about the ph?? > > Carol > > > > > >> > > >> > The cortisol is not useless it helps a doctor back > >> > up the saliva tests and it can also be urine as well as blood. > >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Nancie, the TSH test for me has seemed to reflect what is actually going on. I think it is very reliable for those not on treatment yet. I believe it is during treatment when it becomes unreliable for a larger number of patients. Agree/disagree??? > > Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20I%20am%20new> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Wed Sep 3, 2008 10:54 pm (PDT) > > You are not getting my point. The blood test is a useless test and You did > state that the blood test was not useless. > If you want an accurate reading you NEVER get a blood test. YOU can't > compare the 2 tests. > Just like the TSH is a useless test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Take a chill pill. You are actuall arguring with yourself. LOL. sue On 9/4/08 12:51 AM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote: > > > > The blood test does NOT correlate with the salvia or the urine test. There > is no way you can correlate those tests. The blood test ONLY takes a > snapshot of the amount of cortisol that is in your body at that particular > time; while the 2 24 hour tests give you feedback on what levels your > cortisol is at over a 24 hour day. > > -- Re: Re: I am new > > For the saliva, I have not found a doctor who will order them, most of us > get them through DiagnnostTechs. > You can go to Canaryclub.org > > Then I bring those to an M.D. So they can start doing ³their thing² to get > me on proper treatment and do testing that is covered by insurance. > > sue > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Relax. You¹re gonna hurt yourself trying to be right right right over a very open topic. sue On 9/4/08 12:54 AM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote: > > > > You are not getting my point. The blood test is a useless test and You did > state that the blood test was not useless. > If you want an accurate reading you NEVER get a blood test. YOU can't > compare the 2 tests. > Just like the TSH is a useless test. > > -- Re: I am new > > I guess you are not actually reading my posts. > First ‹ I never stated to have ³single cortisol reading² and secondly I > ALWAYS get a 24 test. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 NO, it does not require ANY provider order. I have been ordering my own since 2006. Stop the haggling. It¹s not nice for morale. Sue On 9/4/08 1:00 AM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote: > > > > The salvia test you order online and the urine test requires a provider > order. But there are only select labs that do the 24 hour urine test. The > blood test is worthless. Don't waste your money. Really good thyroid docs > NEVER use that blood cortisol test. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 lololllllllllllllllllllllll sue On 9/4/08 8:13 AM, " Dan Kukulka " <enemaguy@...> wrote: > > > > hmmmm > > dr.dan > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:51 AM, Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit%40msn.com> >> > wrote: > >> > The blood test does NOT correlate with the salvia or the urine test. >> > There >> > is no way you can correlate those tests. The blood test ONLY takes a >> > snapshot of the amount of cortisol that is in your body at that particular >> > time; while the 2 24 hour tests give you feedback on what levels your >> > cortisol is at over a 24 hour day. >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 I¹ll hop in. I disagree. You need Free t3 and Free t4 and antibodies. TSH can alert you to a problem but it can also mask a problem. Sue On 9/4/08 10:18 AM, " " <res075oh@...> wrote: > > > > Nancie, the TSH test for me has seemed to reflect what is actually going > on. I think it is very reliable for those not on treatment yet. I > believe it is during treatment when it becomes unreliable for a larger > number of patients. Agree/disagree??? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 From what I've read so far the probability of having an inaccurate first notice of a thyroid problem from a TSH test is much less than the probability of having an inaccurate diagnose based upon same during treatment. Especially for those taking T3. Anyway, I wasn't intending to suggest that those on treatment [or even beginners] might not benefit from a full thyroid panel. In my case it wasn't necessary, but I'm a sample on one... Luck, > > Posted by: " eastodurango@... " > eastodurango@... > <mailto:eastodurango@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20I%20am%20new> > jesse11111111111 <jesse11111111111> > > > Thu Sep 4, 2008 9:15 am (PDT) > > I¹ll hop in. I disagree. > > You need Free t3 and Free t4 and antibodies. > > TSH can alert you to a problem but it can also mask a problem. > > Sue > > On 9/4/08 10:18 AM, " " <res075oh@... > <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nancie, the TSH test for me has seemed to reflect what is actually going > > on. I think it is very reliable for those not on treatment yet. I > > believe it is during treatment when it becomes unreliable for a larger > > number of patients. Agree/disagree? > ?? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Just doing TSH for me probably masked my HypoT for about 5 years. When the FINALLY ran the t3 and t3 that¹s when they saw I was hypo...and hashis and goiter. That¹s what I meant. sue On 9/4/08 1:54 PM, " " <res075oh@...> wrote: > > > > From what I've read so far the probability of having an inaccurate > first notice of a thyroid problem from a TSH test is much less than the > probability of having an inaccurate diagnose based upon same during > treatment. Especially for those taking T3. > > Anyway, I wasn't intending to suggest that those on treatment [or even > beginners] might not benefit from a full thyroid panel. In my case it > wasn't necessary, but I'm a sample on one... > > Luck, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Agree. Once you start treatment it becomes useless. We don't [ or shouldn't] treat to the TSH. -- Re: I am new Nancie, the TSH test for me has seemed to reflect what is actually going on. I think it is very reliable for those not on treatment yet. I believe it is during treatment when it becomes unreliable for a larger number of patients. Agree/disagree??? > > Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20I%20am%20new> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Wed Sep 3, 2008 10:54 pm (PDT) > > You are not getting my point. The blood test is a useless test and You did > state that the blood test was not useless. > If you want an accurate reading you NEVER get a blood test. YOU can't > compare the 2 tests. > Just like the TSH is a useless test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 The TSH is ONLY good for screening. After that it is worthless. Although I also screen by using the Frees. But, there are some insurance co's like HMO s that will question why you want more expensive tests when you haven't done the TSH . -- Re: I am new From what I've read so far the probability of having an inaccurate first notice of a thyroid problem from a TSH test is much less than the probability of having an inaccurate diagnose based upon same during treatment. Especially for those taking T3. Anyway, I wasn't intending to suggest that those on treatment [or even beginners] might not benefit from a full thyroid panel. In my case it wasn't necessary, but I'm a sample on one... Luck, > > Posted by: " eastodurango@... " > eastodurango@... > <mailto:eastodurango@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20I%20am%20new> > jesse11111111111 <jesse11111111111> > > > Thu Sep 4, 2008 9:15 am (PDT) > > I¹ll hop in. I disagree. > > You need Free t3 and Free t4 and antibodies. > > TSH can alert you to a problem but it can also mask a problem. > > Sue > > On 9/4/08 10:18 AM, " " <res075oh@... > <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nancie, the TSH test for me has seemed to reflect what is actually going > > on. I think it is very reliable for those not on treatment yet. I > > believe it is during treatment when it becomes unreliable for a larger > > number of patients. Agree/disagree? > ?? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 -- Re: Re: I am new > > For the saliva, I have not found a doctor who will order them, most of us > get them through DiagnnostTechs. > You can go to Canaryclub.org > > Then I bring those to an M.D. So they can start doing ³their thing² to get > me on proper treatment and do testing that is covered by insurance. > > sue > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Well, where do you order the 24 hour urine test?? AND I AM NOT haggling- I am trying to get the accurate info out there so people who don't know the facts can get them. It would be remiss of me as a medical provider to allow incorrect info on the BLOOD CORTISOL test to post here without telling the facts. -- Re: Re: I am new NO, it does not require ANY provider order. I have been ordering my own since 2006. Stop the haggling. It¹s not nice for morale. Sue On 9/4/08 1:00 AM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote: > > > > The salvia test you order online and the urine test requires a provider > order. But there are only select labs that do the 24 hour urine test. The > blood test is worthless. Don't waste your money. Really good thyroid docs > NEVER use that blood cortisol test. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 And so...?? You believe that the blood cortisol test is an accurate one?? A test that is taken only at 8 am and not tested at any other time ?? At least with the 24 hour tests you see what the levels are like throughout the day! Any GOOD provider who actually know about thyroid disease will order ONLY the 2 24 hour tests. -- Re: Re: I am new > > For the saliva, I have not found a doctor who will order them, most of us > get them through DiagnnostTechs. > You can go to Canaryclub.org > > Then I bring those to an M.D. So they can start doing ³their thing² to get > me on proper treatment and do testing that is covered by insurance. > > sue > > On 9/3/08 7:50 PM, " wildman350smom " <carolb@... <carolb%40enter net>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Does the dr typically order the saliva tests or is that something i > > could purchase over the internet??? or are u just talking about the ph?? > > Carol > > > > > >> > > >> > The cortisol is not useless it helps a doctor back > >> > up the saliva tests and it can also be urine as well as blood. > >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 No I am arguing with you, sue. Since you are the one who started it, lol -- Re: Re: I am new > > For the saliva, I have not found a doctor who will order them, most of us > get them through DiagnnostTechs. > You can go to Canaryclub.org > > Then I bring those to an M.D. So they can start doing ³their thing² to get > me on proper treatment and do testing that is covered by insurance. > > sue > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 I never disputed a word you said except that cortisol is not useless. I never said single cortisol, never said single blood cortisol. You took the ball and ran with it. LOL. sue On 9/4/08 3:17 PM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote: > > > > No I am arguing with you, sue. Since you are the one who started it, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 I said [ or meant]the BLOOD cortisol test is useless -- Re: Re: I am new I never disputed a word you said except that cortisol is not useless. I never said single cortisol, never said single blood cortisol. You took the ball and ran with it. LOL. sue On 9/4/08 3:17 PM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote: > > > > No I am arguing with you, sue. Since you are the one who started it, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Sue- . If you want to waste your time and blood- get a blood cortisol test. Otherwise get the tests that the natural medicine and DO providers use: the 24 hour salvia or 24 hour urine. BTW I am not the only one who believes this -- Re: I am new > > I guess you are not actually reading my posts. > First ‹ I never stated to have ³single cortisol reading² and secondly I > ALWAYS get a 24 test. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 I am personally convinced that if hypothyroidism is untreated for an extended time then the strong possibility/probability is that all [or at least many] bets are off. Your TSH readings may mean little or nothing; and T4 only treatment [which works for the majority of patients] may well not work. In addition there appears to be the possibility that ANY treatment may become a hit or miss situation. For example, many people seem to do well on Armour; when AFAIK the only well established need for Armour is for those who cannot convert T4 to T3. But the numbers of those here who report doing MUCH better on Armour seem to be much greater than any report of the percentage of people who cannot convert than any numbers I've ever seen. For some even getting ALL of the numbers such as free T3 and so on in the appropriate range does not provide relief. And some cannot take Armour either. Others take twice as much as Forrest Labs say they should need and do great. Scientifically this can be taken as nothing more than speculation on my part; as I'm not a scientist and I know of no credible studies to support it. But there sure seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence floating around on this and other hypothyroid lists that support such an idea. Luck, > > Posted by: " eastodurango@... " > eastodurango@... > <mailto:eastodurango@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20I%20am%20new> > jesse11111111111 <jesse11111111111> > > > Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:35 pm (PDT) > > Just doing TSH for me probably masked my HypoT for about 5 years. When the > FINALLY ran the t3 and t3 that¹s when they saw I was hypo...and hashis and > goiter. > That¹s what I meant. > > sue > > On 9/4/08 1:54 PM, " " <res075oh@... > <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From what I've read so far the probability of having an inaccurate > > first notice of a thyroid problem from a TSH test is much less than the > > probability of having an inaccurate diagnose based upon same during > > treatment. Especially for those taking T3. > > > > Anyway, I wasn't intending to suggest that those on treatment [or even > > beginners] might not benefit from a full thyroid panel. In my case it > > wasn't necessary, but I'm a sample on one... > > > > Luck, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Nancie, I probably should have also excluded another group from possibly having reliable TSH results. And that is the group who did not receive treatment [or were seriously undertreated] for an extended time. Does that fit into you observations or not? Thanks, > > Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20I%20am%20new> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Thu Sep 4, 2008 12:56 pm (PDT) > > Agree. Once you start treatment it becomes useless. We don't [ or > shouldn't] > treat to the TSH. > > -- Re: I am new > > Nancie, the TSH test for me has seemed to reflect what is actually going > on. I think it is very reliable for those not on treatment yet. I > believe it is during treatment when it becomes unreliable for a larger > number of patients. Agree/disagree??? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 JAMES- I believe that the TSH should only be used as a screening test. Ideally one should also have their frees screened at the same time. However, many insurance companies which include HMO's do not like to pay for the frees, the totals and even the RT3 unless you screen for the TSH first. I have had many rejections from insurance companies when I didn't run a TSH first. Most of those plans were HMO's. It is a major pain in the ass. Even Medi-cal is dictating what labs I can run and the sequence I run them. So, when ever I request for other tests beyond the TSH, I have to document with symptoms and the Physical exam results on the lab form form whenever I play with certain insurance companies. So, do I think that the third group who did not get treatment or were seriously under treated for an extended time be treated by the TSH? No. I think you screen with the TSH and then depending on symptoms, the patient's requests and exam results you order the frees; antibodies; RT3 and even the Totals to get a complete picture. -- Re: I am new > > Nancie, the TSH test for me has seemed to reflect what is actually going > on. I think it is very reliable for those not on treatment yet. I > believe it is during treatment when it becomes unreliable for a larger > number of patients. Agree/disagree??? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 one of the residents of the group home just died. he had every symptom of congenital hypothyroidism and iodine deficiency (which causes low TSH b/c NIS symporter system is " depressed " .) he was never given proper treatment b/c of TSH. he was however given every drug known to man, except HC and Armour. shameful so shameful--it really is time for massive lawsuits. Gracia JAMES- I believe that the TSH should only be used as a screening test. Ideally one should also have their frees screened at the same time. However, many insurance companies which include HMO's do not like to pay for the frees, the totals and even the RT3 unless you screen for the TSH first. I have had many rejections from insurance companies when I didn't run a TSH first. Most of those plans were HMO's. It is a major pain in the ass. Even Medi-cal is dictating what labs I can run and the sequence I run them. So, when ever I request for other tests beyond the TSH, I have to document with symptoms and the Physical exam results on the lab form form whenever I play with certain insurance companies. So, do I think that the third group who did not get treatment or were seriously under treated for an extended time be treated by the TSH? No. I think you screen with the TSH and then depending on symptoms, the patient's requests and exam results you order the frees; antibodies; RT3 and even the Totals to get a complete picture. -- Re: I am new Nancie, I probably should have also excluded another group from possibly having reliable TSH results. And that is the group who did not receive treatment [or were seriously undertreated] for an extended time. Does that fit into you observations or not? Thanks, Recent Activity a.. 15New Members Visit Your Group Give Back for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1655 - Release Date: 9/5/2008 7:05 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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