I am new

[Guest guest]

my coworker was put on Armour as a teenager, then later switched to $inthroid,

then finally begged to be put back on Armour. She is very undertreated ( I

cannot tell the color of her eyes b/c they are almost closed from swelling) b/c

of doc ignorance and TSH. the most Armour doc gives her is 120mg---but there

is a world of difference in her personality between $inthroid and Armour. it is

just plain myth that most ppl do well on T4 meds.

Gracia

I am personally convinced that if hypothyroidism is untreated for an

extended time then the strong possibility/probability is that all [or at

least many] bets are off. Your TSH readings may mean little or nothing;

and T4 only treatment [which works for the majority of patients] may

well not work. In addition there appears to be the possibility that ANY

treatment may become a hit or miss situation. For example, many people

seem to do well on Armour; when AFAIK the only well established need for

Armour is for those who cannot convert T4 to T3. But the numbers of

those here who report doing MUCH better on Armour seem to be much

greater than any report of the percentage of people who cannot convert

than any numbers I've ever seen. For some even getting ALL of the

numbers such as free T3 and so on in the appropriate range does not

provide relief. And some cannot take Armour either. Others take twice

as much as Forrest Labs say they should need and do great.

Scientifically this can be taken as nothing more than speculation on my

part; as I'm not a scientist and I know of no credible studies to

support it. But there sure seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence

floating around on this and other hypothyroid lists that support such an

idea.

Luck,

>

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[Guest guest]

the test is useless b/c it only picks up the worst cases of s/adrenal

failure. Docs don't believe that adrenal insufficiency exists and that might

have to do with all the drugs they sell instead of using low dose HC. the

resident who just died had hypoadrenalism and congenital hypothyroidism but

couldn't get adrenal treatment b/c of " normal " blood tests

Gracia

It is useless because it only takes a snapshot of the cortisol level at ONE

particular time of the day- in your blood while the other tests check your

levels throughout a 24 hour period. My thyroid MD is an expert in natural

medicine and she only advocates using a test that covers a 24 hour period in

the day, not a blood test that only gives you a snapshot of one specific

time period. Your steroid levels fluctuate throughout the day. You need to

know what the rest of the day is like as in how your body adjusts to

stressors throughout the day. You need to know what your levels are like in

the early am, noon, the afternoon and the evening. Those readings will let

you know how your body handles stress in your body.

I only order either 24 hour salvia or even better 24 hour urine tests on my

patients.

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[Guest guest]

Who diagnosed the resident with these diseases? In ur earlier post, you

indicate that the person " had all the symptoms " - indicating that the

diseases you attribute to him/her were not diagnosed (by anyone by you, I

mean).

DS

Re: I am new

the test is useless b/c it only picks up the worst cases of

s/adrenal failure. Docs don't believe that adrenal insufficiency

exists and that might have to do with all the drugs they sell instead of

using low dose HC. the resident who just died had hypoadrenalism and

congenital hypothyroidism but couldn't get adrenal treatment b/c of " normal "

blood tests

Gracia

It is useless because it only takes a snapshot of the cortisol level at

ONE

particular time of the day- in your blood while the other tests check your

levels throughout a 24 hour period. My thyroid MD is an expert in natural

medicine and she only advocates using a test that covers a 24 hour period

in

the day, not a blood test that only gives you a snapshot of one specific

time period. Your steroid levels fluctuate throughout the day. You need to

know what the rest of the day is like as in how your body adjusts to

stressors throughout the day. You need to know what your levels are like

in

the early am, noon, the afternoon and the evening. Those readings will let

you know how your body handles stress in your body.

I only order either 24 hour salvia or even better 24 hour urine tests on

my

patients.

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7:05 PM

[Guest guest]

You are saying he died from hypoT and iodine def but was not treated due to

TSH.

So then how does anyone know he had these diseases/syndroms since he was not

diagnosed?

On 9/7/08 11:01 AM, " Gracia " <circe@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> one of the residents of the group home just died. he had every symptom of

> congenital hypothyroidism and iodine deficiency (which causes low TSH b/c NIS

> symporter system is " depressed " .) he was never given proper treatment b/c of

> TSH. he was however given every drug known to man, except HC and Armour.

> shameful so shameful--it really is time for massive lawsuits.

> Gracia

>

\

[Guest guest]

It is apparently a well established Fact that fewer than 5% of total

number of doses of Armour are sold as there are of Synthroid. And I

don't see a lot of people running around with swollen eyes...

..

..

> it is just plain myth that most ppl do well on T4 meds.

> Gracia

[Guest guest]

, I'm sure you are aware that is mainly due to marketing rather

than patient preference. Many patients are surprised when they learn

there are other types of thyroid replacement.

Sam

>

> It is apparently a well established Fact that fewer than 5% of total

> number of doses of Armour are sold as there are of Synthroid. And I

> don't see a lot of people running around with swollen eyes...

>

>

> .

> .

>

> > it is just plain myth that most ppl do well on T4 meds.

> > Gracia

>

[Guest guest]

I suspect there's more than a bit of truth to that view. But I think we

would have a lot more people here if Gracia's myth were in fact a myth.

I'd really like to see a double blind study.

Heck, I'd like to see an explanation of why someone who can easily

convert T4 to T3 should need T3 when taking T4.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@...

> <mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20I%20am%20new>

> stealthwind <stealthwind>

>

>

> Mon Sep 8, 2008 11:45 am (PDT)

>

> , I'm sure you are aware that is mainly due to marketing rather

> than patient preference. Many patients are surprised when they learn

> there are other types of thyroid replacement.

>

> Sam

>

>

> >

> > It is apparently a well established Fact that fewer than 5% of total

> > number of doses of Armour are sold as there are of Synthroid. And I

> > don't see a lot of people running around with swollen eyes...

> >

> >

> > .

> > .

> >

> > > it is just plain myth that most ppl do well on T4 meds.

> > > Gracia

> >

[Guest guest]

I absolutely would love to see a double blind study. And I want

pictures! Holy moley! I dirty double dog dare any pharmaceutical

company to do a double blind study on t4 vs desiccated porcine

thyroid.

I own/mod the thyroidless group and I see 'night and day'

improvements with group members when they've switched from t4 drugs

to desiccated thyroid. Very obviously, most people in that group

haven't done well on T4 drugs.

Sam

> > >

> > > It is apparently a well established Fact that fewer than 5% of

total

> > > number of doses of Armour are sold as there are of Synthroid.

And I

> > > don't see a lot of people running around with swollen eyes...

> > >

> > >

> > > .

> > > .

> > >

> > > > it is just plain myth that most ppl do well on T4 meds.

> > > > Gracia

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I own/mod the thyroidless group and I see 'night and day'

> improvements with group members when they've switched from t4 drugs

> to desiccated thyroid. Very obviously, most people in that group

> haven't done well on T4 drugs.

>

Hi Sam

Can I recommend the following, which were written as responses to the

British Thyroid Association's misleading (and in parts downright

incorrect) statements on Armour and synthetic T4/T3 combination therapy

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf

<http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf> and

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_t4t3.pdf

<http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_t4t3.pdf> . I too own an Internet

thyroid forum and likewise, my members are also experiencing dramatic

changes for the better in the health when they have changed over from

L-thyroxine therapy to natural thyroid extract.

Because not much is generally known about T2, T1 and calcitonin, doctors

seem to disregard them altogether. These are natural hormones in the

thyroid, they have some active element and should not be discounted. I

personally believe that it could well be the T2 in Armour that is the

magic ingredient, because of the many people who still had symptoms when

taking synthetic T4/T3 combination therapy who regained their normal

health when changing to Armour on its own.

[Guest guest]

also Armour contains T7, T0

Gracia

>

> I own/mod the thyroidless group and I see 'night and day'

> improvements with group members when they've switched from t4 drugs

> to desiccated thyroid. Very obviously, most people in that group

> haven't done well on T4 drugs.

>

Hi Sam

Can I recommend the following, which were written as responses to the

British Thyroid Association's misleading (and in parts downright

incorrect) statements on Armour and synthetic T4/T3 combination therapy

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf

<http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf> and

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_t4t3.pdf

<http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_t4t3.pdf> . I too own an Internet

thyroid forum and likewise, my members are also experiencing dramatic

changes for the better in the health when they have changed over from

L-thyroxine therapy to natural thyroid extract.

Because not much is generally known about T2, T1 and calcitonin, doctors

seem to disregard them altogether. These are natural hormones in the

thyroid, they have some active element and should not be discounted. I

personally believe that it could well be the T2 in Armour that is the

magic ingredient, because of the many people who still had symptoms when

taking synthetic T4/T3 combination therapy who regained their normal

health when changing to Armour on its own.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Sam. At this point I like to see even a well conducted survey based

upon other than a probable self-selecting group such as yours and this

one. There appears to be a lot of anecdotal evidence that the number of

patients who benefit from Armour over T4 alone may be substantially

higher than the maybe 4% or 5% we see based upon the number of does sold

of each. But it's impossible to get a valid idea from the sample

populations often quoted.

And if that is the case then it seems to me possible that there are some

benefits from Armour for groups other than those who cannot convert T4

to T3. I'd sure love to see something more than anecdotal evidence to

support that idea. I haven't gotten into the stuff Sheila sent me yet...

Regards,

>

> Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@...

> <mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20I%20am%20new>

> stealthwind <stealthwind>

>

>

> Mon Sep 8, 2008 7:35 pm (PDT)

>

> I absolutely would love to see a double blind study. And I want

> pictures! Holy moley! I dirty double dog dare any pharmaceutical

> company to do a double blind study on t4 vs desiccated porcine

> thyroid.

>

> I own/mod the thyroidless group and I see 'night and day'

> improvements with group members when they've switched from t4 drugs

> to desiccated thyroid. Very obviously, most people in that group

> haven't done well on T4 drugs.

>

> Sam

>

>

> >

> > I suspect there's more than a bit of truth to that view. But I

> think we

> > would have a lot more people here if Gracia's myth were in fact a

> myth.

> > I'd really like to see a double blind study.

> >

> > Heck, I'd like to see an explanation of why someone who can easily

> > convert T4 to T3 should need T3 when taking T4.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Angel,

Mind if I ask you some questions? My daughter Shyann will be 9 in Nov., and is

57 lbs. I just started her on proEFA but haven't seen any results. How long has

Isaac been on oils? Did you see immediate results? How long before you increased

his dose? I don't hear from a lot of moms with children of this age so I

appreciate your input.

Joy

[ ] I am new

Hello I am new to this group my name is Angel. We are not new to the pro EFA

and EPA but new to the group. I am a nurse who has a son diagnosed with apraxia

from Dr. Edythe Strand from Mayo clinic in Rochester MN. My son is Isaac and he

is 8 almost 9 in nov. He takes 4 EFA and 2 EPA and he weighs 56 pounds.

Isaac has low muscle tone and low carnitine and is on carnitor.

I am curious about the new speak coming out!

I am excited to be apart of this group!

Isaac is in the works of getting a tango a speech device. Does anyone use

this? My son can communicate a lot and he is getting better, other people have a

hard time understanding him sometimes.

NICE to meet everyone!!!

Angel

[Guest guest]

Hi Joy!

How much are you giving Shyann? Isaac has been on them on and off for about 5

years. When I don't see anymore surges I would take him off then start them back

up again that is the way his body seems to react to them. I do see immediate

results then they taper off and he stays the same when that happens I take him

off. I usually see results within 1-2 weeks is when they start with him and last

a few months then they hold steady. They do seem to really help him and I tell

everyone i know about them if thier child has any issues!

Nice to chat and ask away!!!

I do think they need to be on a high dose thoe. Like 4 proefa and 2 epa.

angel

[ ] I am new

Hello I am new to this group my name is Angel. We are not new to the pro EFA

and EPA but new to the group. I am a nurse who has a son diagnosed with apraxia

from Dr. Edythe Strand from Mayo clinic in Rochester MN. My son is Isaac and he

is 8 almost 9 in nov. He takes 4 EFA and 2 EPA and he weighs 56 pounds.

Isaac has low muscle tone and low carnitine and is on carnitor.

I am curious about the new speak coming out!

I am excited to be apart of this group!

Isaac is in the works of getting a tango a speech device. Does anyone use

this? My son can communicate a lot and he is getting better, other people have a

hard time understanding him sometimes.

NICE to meet everyone!!!

Angel

[Guest guest]

Angel, I started Shyann on 2 proEFA in a.m. She has never experienced a surge

in her life. I want to try proEPA with the EFA in hopes we'll see a surge, but I

think I'll just go straight to SPEAK. Did you ever have Isaac on just EFA? I'm

wondering if she just needs both. I hope!

Tonight we were watching the history channel special on 9/11, and she kept

asking me questions. I could only understand about one out of five questions,

her speech is so hard to understand. Does Isaac have any problems in school with

reading or spelling? Let me know when you get a chance.

Joy

[Guest guest]

Hi Joy,

No, Isaac was only on the combo, I started him on 2 efa and 1 epa whe he was

younger but since he is much bigger I doubled it. That combo seems to work for

him. I think your daughter needs more and add the epa. I want to add the vitamin

E too to see if that helps him. I am very curious to try vit E.

I too might try speak when mine run out. I still am researching it right now and

I am trying to convert how many Isaac will need of them to equal what he is

getting in the nordic naturals.

This summer he gained 12 pounds! Which is awesome for him since he was 44 pounds

for a few years. I increased his carnitor to 20 mls a day and I think that

helped with his muscle mass.

I can totally understand the frusteration in trying to understand what they are

saying, Isaac is really good about it and so far doesn't get too upset he tries

and tries again. Why does it have to be so hard! SIGH!

Angel

Re: [ ] I am new

Angel, I started Shyann on 2 proEFA in a.m. She has never experienced a surge

in her life. I want to try proEPA with the EFA in hopes we'll see a surge, but I

think I'll just go straight to SPEAK. Did you ever have Isaac on just EFA? I'm

wondering if she just needs both. I hope!

Tonight we were watching the history channel special on 9/11, and she kept

asking me questions. I could only understand about one out of five questions,

her speech is so hard to understand. Does Isaac have any problems in school with

reading or spelling? Let me know when you get a chance.

Joy

[Guest guest]

Hi all first of all I am trying to figure out if I even have it. This is what is

going on. I am 48 female, live on a farm and have worked hard all my life. But I

suffer from tmj, tennis elbow and now my knees, I bent down to wash my floor

when I had the worst pain go threw my right knee, fast forward they said I had a

cyst in it. the ortho doctor said it was no big deal and that I have artritis in

my knee, to get a cortozone shot, I didn't get it. Is this is what is going on

are all my joints going to hurt?? How did you get to know what really you have

or I am reading about diet vit. ect.. Thanks so much for letting me on your

group am scared and not sure what is going on or what is ahead of me or even to

know where to go for help!! Debbie IN Nebr.