Dennis

[Guest guest]

Dennis,

Just out of curiosity-have you thought about Lyme. It seems that people that do not do respond to LDN have Lyme. Have you ever thought about it? Many complaints with both illnesses are very similar.

Good luck,

-- Re: [low dose naltrexone] misconception about LDN XXXXXXX

This issue of attention was raised after I and several others posted about no success with LDN so I have examined my conscious on the attention issue. I am sure there are persons who do not want to get well from a disease for any number of reasons. I now think it is possible that I may have abandoned LDN out of fear that the LDN proponents were right that LDN stops progression for all patients at no risk to any of them. What about my dream to receive the attention I would receive if my downward spiral into a wheelchair was stopped? Afterall, in a wheelchair I would have my spouse devoting all of her energy to pushing me or struggling to open doors for me. Her eyes would always focus on me. I am sorry that the ADA will make it easier for her to get over curbcuts. I so much desire the help of strangers which would rise to a higher level than they are performing now with my cane. It only takes one to hold the door now but maybe two or three will have to struggle with the wheelchair.Finally, I am sad that we have wheelchairs. I would much rather ride on those contraptions the Romans were hoisted up so they would be on the shoulders of their slaves. I would really get the attention I deserve and yearn for.DennisJackie wrote:

I guess you’re right about some people not wanting to get better because they love the attention because the more I think about it I have a sister that’s like that. She’s 63 years old and has just been diagnosed with MS. She’s enjoying the attention that she gets now from her husband and her son and daughter and her sisters. As soon as she was diagnosed she started acting like she was handicapped and even got a handicapped sticker. My daughter however is totally the opposite. She has had MS since she was 16 years old, she’s now 27. She will tell anybody that she does not have a disability, she has MS but MS does not have her. She does not want anybody treating her any differently. A lot of her friends and some family members didn’t know she had MS until just recently when she needed assistance getting around and moved back home with me until she was doing better. That was really hard for her because she enjoys being independent. She’s doing so much better now and is feeling more like herself.

I pray that someday soon, the CURE for MS will be discovered.

God Bless

Jackie

'To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might the world'

From: low dose naltrexone [mailto:low dose naltrexone ] On Behalf Of Aletha WittmannSent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:02 AMlow dose naltrexone Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] misconception about LDN XXXXXXX

Hi Jackie and Larry,

While I have met many people that fit the description that Larry has stated (some people do enjoy attention by being sick), I think most on this site however are looking for a way to get well.

I have met a number of people that want nothing to do with a drug that might make them get better because it would ruin their getting attention. I have seen it time and time again when I try and tell people about LDN and how it was a miracle for my husband. One husband told me straight out that the reason his wife will not try anything different is because she enjoys the attention she gets and if you took the illness away she would have nothing let to complain about.

I have an exchange student from Germany this year that is disabled. She is very intelligent (straight A's), political, philosophical and very strong and able. She has a difficulty with walking from a childhood energy (a couple of years of surgeries and time in the hospital). I have watched her this past few months and even with her intellect she uses her disability to get attention or to get people to do things for her when she can easily do them for herself. Even her friends are noticing this after a while. I think it is human nature. When I am sick with a cold I want the entire household waiting on me.

One thing I love about this site is that those on it are searching for a way to get better.

Aletha

Re: [low dose naltrexone] misconception about LDN

I am a newbie who tried LDN hoping that I would prevent further loss of my mobility. Although I have seen many posts about symptom relief I did not expect any. I quit after a month. As soon as I started LDN I had an immediate arrival of new symptoms and the revival of old symptoms at a higher intensity than I had before I started LDN. My last dose was a month ago and the symptoms have remained the same.Conclusion: LDN caused an exacerbation or further damaged an already compromised CNS.Dennis

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for the info. I did try Ambien but due to my job I need to be able to

be alert if the phone rings at 3AM. With the Ambien, I would wake up not knowing

where I was. I would talk on the phone and have no idea later what I said. That

was really BAD.

The low dose of Ativan allows me to wake up completely and remember

everything. I do get concerned sometimes though, even with the low dose. The

psych says not to worry about it as the dose is so low, I couldn't cut the pill

any smaller to wean off without destroying it anyway!

Best,

Dennis

<peacefulheart4@...> wrote:

Hi Dennis,

I've been on this stuff, (different ones), for seven years. Occasional use with

a low dose, such as you describe, would probably not create a dependency. But I

would talk to you doctor. Perhaps AmbienCR or another sleep aid would be more

appropriate since they are advertised to not cause dependency. My dosages have

increase everytime because I built up a tolerance. All last summer I was on 5

mgs of Valium, three times a day. Valium is a long acting med so I didn't have

much problem with it. As a matter of fact, I have been switched from Ativan to

Valium to start the taper regimen because it is a longer acting med and easier

to wean off. These medications are fine if someone uses them once in a while but

I got trapped into using them every day, three times a day and after a while the

dosage wasn't large enough and I ended up experiencing withdrawal symptoms in

between dosages. I am the extreme case but thousands of people have ended up

exactly where I am. There are a lot

of doctors who don't understand the full repercussions of long term use and long

term use and benzodiazepines do not go together.

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Dennis, that was funny yeah, my doctor just gave me Ambien to try and I have

to agree I fall asleep without even knowing it and I dont like that. I dont know

what kind of drug Ativan is but I have taken the lowest dose of xanax for 4

years and I could wake up no problem. Plus it slowly puts me to sleep I get

" relaxed " first. My doctor also told me it was ok to stay on xanax but that

doctors dont like it forever???? whatever that means. Anyway im not liken the

Ambien CR thank you Dennis im glad you wrote that. I have a habit of taking what

ever my doctor thinks I should take.

Dennis <bluesman615@...> wrote: Hi ,

Thanks for the info. I did try Ambien but due to my job I need to be able to be

alert if the phone rings at 3AM. With the Ambien, I would wake up not knowing

where I was. I would talk on the phone and have no idea later what I said. That

was really BAD.

The low dose of Ativan allows me to wake up completely and remember everything.

I do get concerned sometimes though, even with the low dose. The psych says not

to worry about it as the dose is so low, I couldn't cut the pill any smaller to

wean off without destroying it anyway!

Best,

Dennis

<peacefulheart4@...> wrote:

Hi Dennis,

I've been on this stuff, (different ones), for seven years. Occasional use with

a low dose, such as you describe, would probably not create a dependency. But I

would talk to you doctor. Perhaps AmbienCR or another sleep aid would be more

appropriate since they are advertised to not cause dependency. My dosages have

increase everytime because I built up a tolerance. All last summer I was on 5

mgs of Valium, three times a day. Valium is a long acting med so I didn't have

much problem with it. As a matter of fact, I have been switched from Ativan to

Valium to start the taper regimen because it is a longer acting med and easier

to wean off. These medications are fine if someone uses them once in a while but

I got trapped into using them every day, three times a day and after a while the

dosage wasn't large enough and I ended up experiencing withdrawal symptoms in

between dosages. I am the extreme case but thousands of people have ended up

exactly where I am. There are a lot

of doctors who don't understand the full repercussions of long term use and long

term use and benzodiazepines do not go together.

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Xanax is addicting. That's why they don't want you to stay on it very long.

Colleen

kim allred <kimallred3@...> wrote:

Dennis, that was funny yeah, my doctor just gave me Ambien to try and I

have to agree I fall asleep without even knowing it and I dont like that. I dont

know what kind of drug Ativan is but I have taken the lowest dose of xanax for 4

years and I could wake up no problem. Plus it slowly puts me to sleep I get

" relaxed " first. My doctor also told me it was ok to stay on xanax but that

doctors dont like it forever???? whatever that means. Anyway im not liken the

Ambien CR thank you Dennis im glad you wrote that. I have a habit of taking what

ever my doctor thinks I should take.

Dennis wrote: Hi ,

Thanks for the info. I did try Ambien but due to my job I need to be able to be

alert if the phone rings at 3AM. With the Ambien, I would wake up not knowing

where I was. I would talk on the phone and have no idea later what I said. That

was really BAD.

The low dose of Ativan allows me to wake up completely and remember everything.

I do get concerned sometimes though, even with the low dose. The psych says not

to worry about it as the dose is so low, I couldn't cut the pill any smaller to

wean off without destroying it anyway!

Best,

Dennis

wrote:

Hi Dennis,

I've been on this stuff, (different ones), for seven years. Occasional use with

a low dose, such as you describe, would probably not create a dependency. But I

would talk to you doctor. Perhaps AmbienCR or another sleep aid would be more

appropriate since they are advertised to not cause dependency. My dosages have

increase everytime because I built up a tolerance. All last summer I was on 5

mgs of Valium, three times a day. Valium is a long acting med so I didn't have

much problem with it. As a matter of fact, I have been switched from Ativan to

Valium to start the taper regimen because it is a longer acting med and easier

to wean off. These medications are fine if someone uses them once in a while but

I got trapped into using them every day, three times a day and after a while the

dosage wasn't large enough and I ended up experiencing withdrawal symptoms in

between dosages. I am the extreme case but thousands of people have ended up

exactly where I am. There are a lot

of doctors who don't understand the full repercussions of long term use and long

term use and benzodiazepines do not go together.

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

So is Ativan. The thing is to not increase the dose even though it may not work

as well after a long period. I weigh the benefits. I am miserable when I don't

sleep so the .25 mg of ativan (1/2 pill) is well worth it to me. If/when I need

to get off I will have to go to 1/4 pill or .125 mg which should not be a big

deal. So 5.00 worth of Ativan lasts me 2 months. Some suggest it is the placebo

effect. I don't really care as long as I sleep!

Dennis

MsTigerHawk <tigerhawksoars@...> wrote:

Xanax is addicting. That's why they don't want you to stay on it very

long.

Colleen

kim allred <kimallred3@...> wrote:

Dennis, that was funny yeah, my doctor just gave me Ambien to try and I have

to agree I fall asleep without even knowing it and I dont like that. I dont know

what kind of drug Ativan is but I have taken the lowest dose of xanax for 4

years and I could wake up no problem. Plus it slowly puts me to sleep I get

" relaxed " first. My doctor also told me it was ok to stay on xanax but that

doctors dont like it forever???? whatever that means. Anyway im not liken the

Ambien CR thank you Dennis im glad you wrote that. I have a habit of taking what

ever my doctor thinks I should take.

Dennis wrote: Hi ,

Thanks for the info. I did try Ambien but due to my job I need to be able to be

alert if the phone rings at 3AM. With the Ambien, I would wake up not knowing

where I was. I would talk on the phone and have no idea later what I said. That

was really BAD.

The low dose of Ativan allows me to wake up completely and remember everything.

I do get concerned sometimes though, even with the low dose. The psych says not

to worry about it as the dose is so low, I couldn't cut the pill any smaller to

wean off without destroying it anyway!

Best,

Dennis

wrote:

Hi Dennis,

I've been on this stuff, (different ones), for seven years. Occasional use with

a low dose, such as you describe, would probably not create a dependency. But I

would talk to you doctor. Perhaps AmbienCR or another sleep aid would be more

appropriate since they are advertised to not cause dependency. My dosages have

increase everytime because I built up a tolerance. All last summer I was on 5

mgs of Valium, three times a day. Valium is a long acting med so I didn't have

much problem with it. As a matter of fact, I have been switched from Ativan to

Valium to start the taper regimen because it is a longer acting med and easier

to wean off. These medications are fine if someone uses them once in a while but

I got trapped into using them every day, three times a day and after a while the

dosage wasn't large enough and I ended up experiencing withdrawal symptoms in

between dosages. I am the extreme case but thousands of people have ended up

exactly where I am. There are a lot

of doctors who don't understand the full repercussions of long term use and long

term use and benzodiazepines do not go together.

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane,

I

have a few moments midday, and thought the following thoughts might be of

interest to you. The first class I took in naturopathic school was taught by a

fellow by the name of Ted Morter. In this class I learned a couple of things

that will forever change my outlook on the healing process. First, you can

never treat enough symptoms to correct the cause. Obviously this flies in the

face of the allopathic medical mindset, and that that's all that they do. They

are symptom-based and symptom driven. As regards this venue removing a thyroid

removes a symptom, and does not address a cause. Second, stress producing

thoughts are the most potent toxin producers in your body. I rarely hear of or

had experience with a allopathic person that has helped deal with the cause of

the stressors. Surgery yes, spinal manipulation, yes analgesics, yes yada yada

but suggesting I or someone I know alter their lifestyle? No

I

applaud you for that which you are doing to better your health. I certainly

wish I had the self-discipline to eat as healthy as you appear to. I would make

a couple of observations in an attempt to encourage you with your quest

for a return to health. That would be that I am not convinced that anyone can

do enough by diet alone to remediate that which you depict as Lyme, as it is a blood

borne pathogen that is actually living using you as a host. I would make the

same comment regarding iodine. I have yet to find a client that initially

presents with an adequate iodine intake. Before I " discovered "

iodine, I was in fairly good shape, and yet now I am on a maintenance dose that

is shockingly higher than anything I would've expected to ingest. Suffice it to

say it is over 300% higher than the RDA (Really Dumb Amounts). Yes, I can

actually feel with myself significant difference in my performance abilities avec

iodine versus sans iodine. Minimal is also a laudable concept, as it is

efficacious, however I often times find myself " running on empty " not

taking sufficient supplements to meet my needs. You would bring me to mind of a

lot of my clients, that are doing very well because they have taken time to

educate themselves on what's good for them, and apply that knowledge. Keep up

the good work! AND share your knowledge.

Dennis Dvorak

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Diane

Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 9:41 AM

iodine

Subject: Dennis

thank you for

your comments. As I mentioned before I have had training in allopathic

care as a nurse. As a result of my exposure to conventional medicine I

have opted to seek alternative measures for my own health and well being as

much as I can. When I became debilitated from Chronic Lyme disease I was

blessed to be cared for by a D.O. that was willing to think outside the

box. Her care for me then has given me back much of my previous function

and health, though not 100% and I feel I willl always have to stay on guard to

avoid relapse. Some good lessons were learned in that time and I am

moving on from there.

I have a much

different perspective on health and wellness than most of my peers in the

medical profession. That makes it hard to find a dr. that I feel can be

trusted. I would not go to a dr for a prescription to mediate a

symptom. I want to know what causes the symptom. Not many

medical professionals see health care from that point of view any more.

In fact, many old home remedies serve my purposes better than an M.D.'s scripts

would. I am a minimalist (??sp??) hoping to get through life with as

little supplemental intervention as possible. I try to eat healthy, bake

our own bread from flour I grind fresh. We grow a large garden and have

our own orchard. While it isn't perfect, our soil isn't Brixed, our

veggies aren't really organic, I still know where they came from and how they

were preserved and that means a lot to me.

I was

introduced to iodine nearly a year ago by an individual that encouraged me to

be prepared to have to care for my health using natural means, suspecting very

soon we wouldn't have access to Big Pharma, or conventional treatment.

Maybe that'll happen, maybe it won't. The useful information I got from

her was the use of iodine, salt water and bentonite clay. I think just

those 3 ingredients will go a long way toward keeping us as healthy as we are

able to be. I'm not sure I really want to live to be 100 anyway!

LOL I would like to live out my natural days in as much comfort and good

health as possible though and that is my goal.

I think our

body's were created to mend themselves and heal if given sufficient nutrients

to work with. It's just a process of learning to think that way, and not

run to the dr. to " fix " a problem (when then really don't fix

anything at all!).

Stepping off

my soap box now (oh, by the way, I make our own soap too! I really LOVE

that process! but that's another story)

Diane

(MI)

....For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. Matt 12:34

-----

Original Message -----

From: Dennis Dvorak

iodine

Sent: Tuesday, October 06,

2009 8:29 AM

Subject: RE: Re:

Iodine vs Bromine in a Euthroid Person

Hi Diane,

I have found that most of the participants on this chat site have an

interesting story to tell. That which is of considerable value to me is that

there appears to be no monetary gain as an impetus to post their experiences,

and that in itself tends to lend credibility to what they have to say.

I note in passing that our participant " Mike " who seems to have the

misdirected predilection to prove everything via empirical research appears to

miss the point that the experiences both individual and collective would have

at very least preliminary characteristics of that " research " sans the

allopathic mindset. A couple of days ago I was " researching " to buy a

new string line trimmer. I was directed at the Sthil headquarters to a

technician that had been with the company over 30 years. When I asked him why

my trimmer line would foul in the spool, he said that the cheaper trimmer lines

would " weld to themselves " . His experience was that the premium

product would not. I felt kind of stupid because I had always used cheap

product. This gentleman's practical experience was invaluable in solving my

problem, and as he had no vested interest in making money from selling the

product, I felt his advice could be trusted.

I noticed a scripture reference in your communication. If memory serves me,

said text (the Bible) also includes numerous references to healing via

herbs and berries, poultices, etc. Iodine would be a natural substance that by

inference would be found in the aforementioned herbs and berries.

I got involved in naturopathic medicine, because I was always sick as a kid,

and received little if any help from the allopathic medical community. Once I

took charge of my health, it improved.

Dennis Dvorak

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Diane

Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 7:10 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Re: Iodine vs Bromine in a Euthroid Person

Dennis,

I am impressed with your comment. Wish we could clone folks like

you. I am without medical supervision right now because I am unable to

find such a clone. Just clowns! They don't work for me. I

agree 100% with your assessment of allopathic care. I am a disillusioned

old R.N. My profession let me down. I discovered modern medicine

isn't what I really wanted to be involved with for the reasons you

stated. " Health " care is not wellness oriented. It is

oriented toward mediating symptoms, documenting in black and white all the

reasons they can find to medicate, medically intervene, surgically remove and

otherwise hinder the body's true healing process.

I'm

sure this group is intended for purposes other than bashing what most here have

already experienced in the " health care " realm and are now seeking

wellness care, anywhere they can find it. And for the most of us, that

will mean seeking the experiences of others that have successfully found

answers by means other than conventional medical practices.

I

am looking forward to gleaning what I need to fix my thyroid / lyme disease/ co

infections and related conditions from the practical experiential wisdom

here. I appreciate the folks willing to answer questions and help.

Diane (MI)

....For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. Matt 12:34

Re: Iodine vs Bromine in a Euthroid Person

Steph,

Sounds like you're saying you aren't really concerned with whether or not the

protocol is backed by sound data, only that it is promoted to the public,

regardless of how desperate or medically sophisticated the audience might or

might not be. Sorry to hear that.

Mike

> >

> > Anecdotal evidence is fine, and certainly has it's place - who

doesn't like a good story of success. But I guess non medical individual's with

no background in research just don't distinguish between individual results and

potential for harmful reactions in the population at large. At least I haven't

seen any differentiation of the two concepts in this group. After all, we have

all read accounts here of how iodine 'saved my life' and how iodine 'almost

killed me'. If both are true, then iodine can obviously result in radically

different outcomes. One can only make an informed decision if all the data is

presented - including statistical data and negative data as well as anecdotal.

Groups like this that are 'positive toward iodine' as stated (I

appreciate your honesty) only decrease their credibility by taking a biased

stance to begin with. In the end, that defeats the purpose of trying to educate

people so they can make an informed decision (which I thought was a goal of

this group), b/c the presentation is one sided. As an example, I might do well

playing the options market, but for me to encourage non sophisticated investors

to play options could result in them losing their life's investment, and would

be totally irresponsible on my part. Rather than promoting options trading just

b/c it treated me right (arguing to the consequences), I should take into

account that what works and is good for me might be disastrous for others.

> >

> > I am not making negative comments about iodine as has been suggested.

What I am doing is looking for data that is relevant over a wide population

relating to POTENTIAL problems with high dose iodine such as hypothyroidism -

before I start taking large doses (to do anything else puts your health at

risk). Many studies have pointed out these problems. The point is whether or

not they used proper methodology and if they were interpreted correctly. Many

scientific studies, positive or negative, are poorly designed/interpreted or

funded by those with conflicts of interest and should be viewed with skepticism

or discarded. It seems that many in this group are simply not willing to

consider studies that come to conclusions that don't fit some pre-conceived

notion of iodine's benefits. That is the cult like facet that I was referring

to. When anything becomes sacrosanct to it's supporters, much of the

objectivity and credibility of those people is lost.

> >

> > Jana, you are absolutely right about conventional medicine and the

harm it does. 'First do no harm' is the first thing in the Hippocratic Oath

that gets tossed out the window. I am certainly no fan of allopathic medicine

(even though, and b/c, I worked in it for thirty years). But I don't see that

as a reason to require less verification of other healing methods than I

otherwise would.

> >

> > Mike

> >

> > --

>

[Guest guest]

Dennis,

What concerns me about so many posts is the emphasis on the part as though it were the whole.

Surely iodine is one part of our total needs.

What are our totals needs ?

Adequate protein, adequate carbohydrate, adequate fats.adequate water.

Minerals, vitamins

All in dynamic movement, in proportion..

The above are actually meaningless generalisations.

Who could say what the numbers are for each person?

Yet there exists numbers and values that could be applied and

the person would say ,yes that addition of say magnesium

helped a lot , I no longer have headaches, I feel more

energetic. who could agrue that this is not the case?

For another the addition of magnesium would have no

appreciable effect. For another it may even make them

feel worse. And these additions would depend on type

type of magnesium, and dosage.

There are of course tests. The tests themselves have

a value. As a guide to the status of some element

or other. But the elemental needs depend on dose

to be effective. To little no effect, too much another effect

and that asssumes uptake.

Pyschological and emotional needs may make uptake

possible or prevent uptake. Here disposition or mood

towards what we are doing, make a huge difference.

If we believe in what we are doing, really believe

then that can make a huge difference. If we only

think we believe, for example the head saying it

and there is lack of heart that's another thing

often forgotten.

This is where attirude and belief in oneself, love

of one's self comes in. A sense of one's value

as a mysterious, human being.

Love and acceptance of our self and our situation

seems to me to be a key element in healing.,

which can get lost as we try and find solutions

which may be the search for love. The search for

the best and highest in oneself.

From: Dennis Dvorak <drdvorak@...>Subject: RE: Dennisiodine Date: Tuesday, 6 October, 2009, 7:11 PM

Hi Diane,

I have a few moments midday, and thought the following thoughts might be of interest to you. The first class I took in naturopathic school was taught by a fellow by the name of Ted Morter. In this class I learned a couple of things that will forever change my outlook on the healing process.. First, you can never treat enough symptoms to correct the cause. Obviously this flies in the face of the allopathic medical mindset, and that that's all that they do. They are symptom-based and symptom driven. As regards this venue removing a thyroid removes a symptom, and does not address a cause.. Second, stress producing thoughts are the most potent toxin producers in your body. I rarely hear of or had experience with a allopathic person that has helped deal with the cause of the stressors. Surgery yes, spinal

manipulation, yes analgesics, yes yada yada but suggesting I or someone I know alter their lifestyle? No

I applaud you for that which you are doing to better your health. I certainly wish I had the self-discipline to eat as healthy as you appear to. I would make a couple of observations in an attempt to encourage you with your quest for a return to health. That would be that I am not convinced that anyone can do enough by diet alone to remediate that which you depict as Lyme, as it is a blood borne pathogen that is actually living using you as a host. I would make the same comment regarding iodine. I have yet to find a client that initially presents with an adequate iodine intake. Before I "discovered" iodine, I was in fairly good shape, and yet now I am on a maintenance dose that is shockingly higher than anything I would've expected to ingest. Suffice it to say it is over 300% higher than the RDA

(Really Dumb Amounts). Yes, I can actually feel with myself significant difference in my performance abilities avec iodine versus sans iodine. Minimal is also a laudable concept, as it is efficacious, however I often times find myself "running on empty" not taking sufficient supplements to meet my needs. You would bring me to mind of a lot of my clients, that are doing very well because they have taken time to educate themselves on what's good for them, and apply that knowledge. Keep up the good work! AND share your knowledge.

Dennis Dvorak

From: iodinegroups (DOT) com [mailto:iodine] On Behalf Of DianeSent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 9:41 AMiodinegroups (DOT) comSubject: Dennis

thank you for your comments. As I mentioned before I have had training in allopathic care as a nurse. As a result of my exposure to conventional medicine I have opted to seek alternative measures for my own health and well being as much as I can. When I became debilitated from Chronic Lyme disease I was blessed to be cared for by a D.O. that was willing to think outside the box. Her care for me then has given me back much of my previous function and health, though not 100% and I feel I willl always have to stay on guard to avoid relapse. Some good lessons were learned in that time and I am moving on from there.

I have a much different perspective on health and wellness than most of my peers in the medical profession. That makes it hard to find a dr. that I feel can be trusted. I would not go to a dr for a prescription to mediate a symptom. I want to know what causes the symptom. Not many medical professionals see health care from that point of view any more. In fact, many old home remedies serve my purposes better than an M.D.'s scripts would. I am a minimalist (??sp??) hoping to get through life with as little supplemental intervention as possible. I try to eat healthy, bake our own bread from flour I grind fresh. We grow a large garden and have our own orchard. While it isn't perfect, our soil isn't Brixed, our veggies aren't really organic, I still know where they came from and how they were preserved and that means a lot to me.

I was introduced to iodine nearly a year ago by an individual that encouraged me to be prepared to have to care for my health using natural means, suspecting very soon we wouldn't have access to Big Pharma, or conventional treatment. Maybe that'll happen, maybe it won't. The useful information I got from her was the use of iodine, salt water and bentonite clay. I think just those 3 ingredients will go a long way toward keeping us as healthy as we are able to be. I'm not sure I really want to live to be 100 anyway! LOL I would like to live out my natural days in as much comfort and good health as possible though and that is my goal.

I think our body's were created to mend themselves and heal if given sufficient nutrients to work with. It's just a process of learning to think that way, and not run to the dr. to "fix" a problem (when then really don't fix anything at all!).

Stepping off my soap box now (oh, by the way, I make our own soap too! I really LOVE that process! but that's another story)

Diane (MI)...For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. Matt 12:34

Re: Iodine vs Bromine in a Euthroid Person

Steph,Sounds like you're saying you aren't really concerned with whether or not the protocol is backed by sound data, only that it is promoted to the public, regardless of how desperate or medically sophisticated the audience might or might not be. Sorry to hear that.Mike> >> > Anecdotal evidence is fine, and certainly has it's place - who doesn't like a good story of success. But I guess non medical individual's with no background in research just don't distinguish between individual results and potential for harmful reactions in the population at large. At least I haven't seen any differentiation of the two concepts in this group. After all, we have all read accounts here of how iodine 'saved my life' and how iodine 'almost killed me'. If both are true, then iodine can obviously result in radically different outcomes. One can only make an informed decision if all the data is presented - including statistical data and negative data as well as anecdotal. Groups like this that are 'positive toward

iodine' as stated (I appreciate your honesty) only decrease their credibility by taking a biased stance to begin with. In the end, that defeats the purpose of trying to educate people so they can make an informed decision (which I thought was a goal of this group), b/c the presentation is one sided. As an example, I might do well playing the options market, but for me to encourage non sophisticated investors to play options could result in them losing their life's investment, and would be totally irresponsible on my part. Rather than promoting options trading just b/c it treated me right (arguing to the consequences) , I should take into account that what works and is good for me might be disastrous for others.> > > > I am not making negative comments about iodine as has been suggested. What I am doing is looking for data that is relevant over a wide population relating to POTENTIAL problems with high dose iodine such as

hypothyroidism - before I start taking large doses (to do anything else puts your health at risk). Many studies have pointed out these problems. The point is whether or not they used proper methodology and if they were interpreted correctly. Many scientific studies, positive or negative, are poorly designed/interprete d or funded by those with conflicts of interest and should be viewed with skepticism or discarded. It seems that many in this group are simply not willing to consider studies that come to conclusions that don't fit some pre-conceived notion of iodine's benefits. That is the cult like facet that I was referring to. When anything becomes sacrosanct to it's supporters, much of the objectivity and credibility of those people is lost.> > > > Jana, you are absolutely right about conventional medicine and the harm it does. 'First do no harm' is the first thing in the Hippocratic Oath that gets tossed out the window. I am

certainly no fan of allopathic medicine (even though, and b/c, I worked in it for thirty years). But I don't see that as a reason to require less verification of other healing methods than I otherwise would.> > > > Mike> > > > -->

[Guest guest]

Dennis...that is super news! Congrats....I know you've been thru the mill.

Tough about the fosomax and all.....you fix one thing, hurt another.

You're never sure what to go with sometimes.

Hope you're having a good weekend so far.

a