Re: New to Group - Hello!

June 11, 2003

Check on the types of vaccine exemptions in GA. Do they have a

philosophical exemption? I know some parents have gotten exemptions for

selected vaccines. But whatever you decide make sure that any vaccines

given do not contain thimerosal (mercury). Read the vial before the nurse

administers it. Which shots were you thinking of allowing? I also refused

the Hep B- that one decision I made may have prevented a more global

regression (because of the mercury that he did not get at a critical

developmental period) in my son who had severe speech regression (actually

total loss of the ability to speak for 14 months-encephalopathy?) after the

MMR. Of course now we have 2 medical exemptions and a religious exemption

so most assuredly our son will NOT be subjected to further vaccines.

>

> I'm guessing that the nurse was right in her ability to refuse to

> give me the vaccines I wanted. Am I correct?

>

> We will probably go back to our paediatrican for the vaccines we

> want, although I'm reluctant because I think I might have another

> fight on my hands. If anyone here knows of a Dr who is sympathetic

> towards the right to choose in the Atlanta area I would appreciate it.

>

> I'm hoping this club will provide some support, information and help

> ellivate some of my frustrations.

>

> Thank you for having me!

>

> K

> Atlanta, GA

>

June 11, 2003

I do not know if Georgia has a philosophical exemption or if that even

makes a difference. I have always been under the assumption that if you

are going to public school at some point and wish to claim a religious

exemption that it was an all or nothing deal. You could claim the

exemption only if you didn't do any vaxes or if you started and then

claimed " religion " and stopped all together. ( I realize medical is

different in that you can get a dr. to exempt you from particular ones.)

Is this the same for philosophical exemptions as well? (Don't have that

in MD but good to know in case we move). I guess what I am saying Kara,

is you may want to check into this unless you are pretty sure you are

homeschooling. Please, those of you more versed in this correct me if

the " all or nothing " thing is a figment of my imagination. Thanks. :-)

Sally

Kara wrote:

> Hi to all,

>

> I've just joined this group. Let me introduce myself. My name is

> Kara and I am currently living in Atlanta, GA. I am originally from

> England. My husband is an American from TX. I have been living here

> for three and a half years. We gave birth to our first little girl

> in March this year - Maya - she is now a bouncing 13 weeks )

>

> Before Maya arrived I did research the subject of vaccines and took

> advice from some of my friends. I have friends who are in all the

> varying camps which is helpful for me to get a balanced view. Some

> don't vaccinate at all, other do them all and some pick and choose.

> I had decided to take each vaccine at a time and weigh up the pros

> and cons of each one through research. I look at the risks

> associated with the disease vs the vaccine and decide whether its

> worth the risk. I'm sure there are many here who believe its never

> worth the risk, but I consider this to be an on-going decision which

> I will make throughout her childhood.

>

> Anyway, I managed to find a paediatrican who was " somewhat " open to

> the idea of delaying vaccines. She would at least discuss it without

> yelling at me ;o) Although when I went along to the " new parents "

> meeting at the practice, she was very reluctant to discuss it in

> front of all the other parents. I had decided that the Hep B vaccine

> was DEFINITELY not something I was giving to my newborn (this is not

> done in the UK, BTW). While I was in the hospital, another

> paediatrican from my practice examined my daughter (he happened to be

> the one on call). I had a bit of a fight with him about refusing the

> Hep B. He tried to convince me she was at risk. When I told him

> that I didn't have Hep B and she wasn't sexually active so I didn't

> think she was at risk he got a bit flustered and muttered that it was

> my right to refuse. I'm very cross that as a new mother who'd just

> endured natural childbirth and had no sleep for 24 hours, that a dr

> would try and talk me into something which I obviously didn't want to

> do. I don't think that is the time or the place for such discussions.

>

> I've had no further problems with my paediatrican at any of my

> visits. They usually give me a leaflet regarding the vaccines but

> that's it. Unfortunately, we've recently lost our health insurance,

> so when it came to Maya's 2month check up, we decided to go to the

> paediatrican, but that we would go to our local health center for the

> vaccines which we wanted to do. I phoned our health center to find

> out the process and in the course of the conversation about where

> they were, etc. the receptionist asked me about her Hep B vaccine. I

> said that she hadn't had that and wouldn't be. " She HAS to have it "

> was the response. I firmly said that my daughter didn't " have " to

> have any vaccine that I didn't agree to. She then told me that she'd

> have to have it to be admitted to school in Georgia. I told her that

> she was 2 months old so I wasn't particularly concerned about that

> right now. Sufficied to say the conversation ended quickly after

> that.

>

> We went along to the health center with a view to getting her polio

> and mentigitus (sp?) vaccines. I started filling out the paperwork

> at the office and was presented with a consent form. The form stated

> that I'd been given the opportunity to discuss and ask questions

> regarding the vaccines and had a list of all vaccines which were

> supposed to have been ticked to indicate which ones would be

> provided. This hadn't been done. Nor had I had any opportunity to

> discuss them (we were still in the waiting room). I asked them

> which vaccines they were proposing to do. The receptionist said, " oh

> don't worry about that, you just need to sign " . I told her I DID

> worry about this and could she tell me which vaccines were they

> doing. This caused a little discussion and someone else said I could

> talk to the nurse first. I was then ushered into a room with two

> nurses who started off by mocking me as a " neurotic new mother " .

> (Apparently when you have more than one child you stop worrying about

> such things!). She said she would answer any of my questions

> regarding the vaccines. I said I just wanted to know which ones they

> were proposing to do. She asked if I had Maya's discharge form from

> the hospital. I handed it to her. She looked surprised that the Hep

> B hadn't been done. I told her I declined it. Then the lecture

> began. Every argument I presented regarding my choice was met with

> disdain, abuse or mocking, followed by alarmist comments about people

> dying from Hep B and the " epidemic " in this country.

>

> The nurse then proceeded to tell me that if I wasn't getting the Hep

> B that she would not give Maya any of the vaccines. She said it was

> a government funded programme and was therefore all or nothing. I

> said we'd have none then and left shortly after. Not before she

> condensendingly adviced me " not to research too much " . I told her I

> thought it was irresponsible to advise a mother not to research and

> she backtracked somewhat.

>

> Well, as you can tell I am very frustrated by the situation. It

> makes me very mad that such tactics are used to make mothers comply

> to " programmes " which could potentially harm our children. I feel

> confident in my own abilities to " fight " such attempts, but I know

> there are many families who would be very intimidated. Particularly

> if they had no other financial alternative to their babies health

> care. Aside from my ability to stand up for what I believe in, I do

> not think I should HAVE to get into a fight everytime I choose to opt

> out of such things. I certainly don't think I should base my child's

> healthcare decisions on whether or not she'll be admitted to a school!

>

> I'm guessing that the nurse was right in her ability to refuse to

> give me the vaccines I wanted. Am I correct?

>

> We will probably go back to our paediatrican for the vaccines we

> want, although I'm reluctant because I think I might have another

> fight on my hands. If anyone here knows of a Dr who is sympathetic

> towards the right to choose in the Atlanta area I would appreciate it.

>

> I'm hoping this club will provide some support, information and help

> ellivate some of my frustrations.

>

> Thank you for having me!

>

> K

> Atlanta, GA

>

June 11, 2003

> she

> condensendingly adviced me " not to research too much " .

I think you shall research ''too much'! this the reason she doesn't

want you to research: if you will know too much , you might

decide not to vaccinate and that its what she doens't want.

when i went to my pediatrician for the 2 month well being check

and wanted to vaccinate my baby, I said, look the baby is so

young, could it be good idea to wait till is 4 months? the

pediatrician agreed. then I researched and researched...

decided not to vaccinate!! I didn't say that to the pediatrician

because I knew there will be arguements. so I just dissapeared

from my pediatrician and use homeopath for my child, that is

considerably healthier than vaccinated babies!

some mothers decided delayed vaccinations as they did in

Japan, wait till is age 2... you can consider that. and maintaims,

do research.. learn.. look in sherri's website. also i like the

disease section, it tells you the real risks and how to make them

go mildly.

did you know that severe measles is a mere symptom of vitamin

A deficiency?

learn and learn.

knowledge is power.

that nurse didn't want you have that power!

June 11, 2003

Thanks for all the replies, already!

I guess my confusion right now is that, the school issue is not an

issue until she's ready to go to school. I'm interested to know

whether through the government funded programme, whether they can

refuse to do all vaccines if I refuse one of them. I don't really

see how this is connected to whether she can go to school in Georgia,

since I'm not attempting to admit her to a school right now.

In all honesty, I'm not sure that she will go to school in Georgia,

as I'd prefer to return to the UK by the time she's school age (of

course this might not happen). But I certainly am not basing my

decision to vaccinate on whether she can go to school in Georgia.

Georgia does not have a philiosphical exemption law - just the

religious one (no surprise there). But again, these laws refer to

admission to school and I'm not trying to admit her to school. I'm

just trying to choose which vaccines I want. I know if I go to my dr

I can pay for whatever ones I want, but I'm interested to know if the

government programme has the right to refuse me on these grounds.

Also, I am extremely concerned that the health center tried to coerce

me into signing a consent form without giving me the opportunity to

discuss it (until I asked to) AND tried to get me to consent to ALL

vaccines without question. Is there somewhere I can log a complaint

regarding this? Should I?

I guess the question is, do I lose my right to all (free)

vaccinations if I choose to refuse one or more of them?

Thanks for the welcome,

K

>

> > Hi to all,

> >

> > I've just joined this group. Let me introduce myself. My name is

> > Kara and I am currently living in Atlanta, GA. I am originally

from

> > England. My husband is an American from TX. I have been living

here

> > for three and a half years. We gave birth to our first little

girl

> > in March this year - Maya - she is now a bouncing 13 weeks )

> >

> > Before Maya arrived I did research the subject of vaccines and

took

> > advice from some of my friends. I have friends who are in all the

> > varying camps which is helpful for me to get a balanced view.

Some

> > don't vaccinate at all, other do them all and some pick and

choose.

> > I had decided to take each vaccine at a time and weigh up the pros

> > and cons of each one through research. I look at the risks

> > associated with the disease vs the vaccine and decide whether its

> > worth the risk. I'm sure there are many here who believe its

never

> > worth the risk, but I consider this to be an on-going decision

which

> > I will make throughout her childhood.

> >

> > Anyway, I managed to find a paediatrican who was " somewhat " open

to

> > the idea of delaying vaccines. She would at least discuss it

without

> > yelling at me ;o) Although when I went along to the " new parents "

> > meeting at the practice, she was very reluctant to discuss it in

> > front of all the other parents. I had decided that the Hep B

vaccine

> > was DEFINITELY not something I was giving to my newborn (this is

not

> > done in the UK, BTW). While I was in the hospital, another

> > paediatrican from my practice examined my daughter (he happened

to be

> > the one on call). I had a bit of a fight with him about refusing

the

> > Hep B. He tried to convince me she was at risk. When I told him

> > that I didn't have Hep B and she wasn't sexually active so I

didn't

> > think she was at risk he got a bit flustered and muttered that it

was

> > my right to refuse. I'm very cross that as a new mother who'd

just

> > endured natural childbirth and had no sleep for 24 hours, that a

dr

> > would try and talk me into something which I obviously didn't

want to

> > do. I don't think that is the time or the place for such

discussions.

> >

> > I've had no further problems with my paediatrican at any of my

> > visits. They usually give me a leaflet regarding the vaccines but

> > that's it. Unfortunately, we've recently lost our health

insurance,

> > so when it came to Maya's 2month check up, we decided to go to the

> > paediatrican, but that we would go to our local health center for

the

> > vaccines which we wanted to do. I phoned our health center to

find

> > out the process and in the course of the conversation about where

> > they were, etc. the receptionist asked me about her Hep B

vaccine. I

> > said that she hadn't had that and wouldn't be. " She HAS to have

it "

> > was the response. I firmly said that my daughter didn't " have " to

> > have any vaccine that I didn't agree to. She then told me that

she'd

> > have to have it to be admitted to school in Georgia. I told her

that

> > she was 2 months old so I wasn't particularly concerned about that

> > right now. Sufficied to say the conversation ended quickly after

> > that.

> >

> > We went along to the health center with a view to getting her

polio

> > and mentigitus (sp?) vaccines. I started filling out the

paperwork

> > at the office and was presented with a consent form. The form

stated

> > that I'd been given the opportunity to discuss and ask questions

> > regarding the vaccines and had a list of all vaccines which were

> > supposed to have been ticked to indicate which ones would be

> > provided. This hadn't been done. Nor had I had any opportunity

to

> > discuss them (we were still in the waiting room). I asked them

> > which vaccines they were proposing to do. The receptionist

said, " oh

> > don't worry about that, you just need to sign " . I told her I DID

> > worry about this and could she tell me which vaccines were they

> > doing. This caused a little discussion and someone else said I

could

> > talk to the nurse first. I was then ushered into a room with two

> > nurses who started off by mocking me as a " neurotic new mother " .

> > (Apparently when you have more than one child you stop worrying

about

> > such things!). She said she would answer any of my questions

> > regarding the vaccines. I said I just wanted to know which ones

they

> > were proposing to do. She asked if I had Maya's discharge form

from

> > the hospital. I handed it to her. She looked surprised that the

Hep

> > B hadn't been done. I told her I declined it. Then the lecture

> > began. Every argument I presented regarding my choice was met

with

> > disdain, abuse or mocking, followed by alarmist comments about

people

> > dying from Hep B and the " epidemic " in this country.

> >

> > The nurse then proceeded to tell me that if I wasn't getting the

Hep

> > B that she would not give Maya any of the vaccines. She said it

was

> > a government funded programme and was therefore all or nothing. I

> > said we'd have none then and left shortly after. Not before she

> > condensendingly adviced me " not to research too much " . I told

her I

> > thought it was irresponsible to advise a mother not to research

and

> > she backtracked somewhat.

> >

> > Well, as you can tell I am very frustrated by the situation. It

> > makes me very mad that such tactics are used to make mothers

comply

> > to " programmes " which could potentially harm our children. I feel

> > confident in my own abilities to " fight " such attempts, but I know

> > there are many families who would be very intimidated.

Particularly

> > if they had no other financial alternative to their babies health

> > care. Aside from my ability to stand up for what I believe in, I

do

> > not think I should HAVE to get into a fight everytime I choose to

opt

> > out of such things. I certainly don't think I should base my

child's

> > healthcare decisions on whether or not she'll be admitted to a

school!

> >

> > I'm guessing that the nurse was right in her ability to refuse to

> > give me the vaccines I wanted. Am I correct?

> >

> > We will probably go back to our paediatrican for the vaccines we

> > want, although I'm reluctant because I think I might have another

> > fight on my hands. If anyone here knows of a Dr who is

sympathetic

> > towards the right to choose in the Atlanta area I would

appreciate it.

> >

> > I'm hoping this club will provide some support, information and

help

> > ellivate some of my frustrations.

> >

> > Thank you for having me!

> >

> > K

> > Atlanta, GA

> >

June 11, 2003

Also, all who are interested please check out what vaccines are

required in your state. Each state is different, but most I have

checked are not the same as the American Academy of

Pediatrics " recommended " vaccines. Please look at these two words,

the state " requires " for school entrance, the AAP " recommends. "

> I have always been under the assumption that if you

> are going to public school at some point and wish to claim a

religious

> exemption that it was an all or nothing deal.>>>>

>

> My thinking was(exemptions aside) that her dd is only 13 weeks

old.There is no law that says a parent must follow the *recommended*

vacciantion schedule,and so the nurse was out if line saying ll or

nothing. The state laws apply to daycare and school requirements,and

until you are in that situation you can vaccinate(or not) however you

feel is most appropriate.I am sure the lists main page will have a

link to state by state daycare/school requirements.Best wishes!Sara

>

June 11, 2003

Now they're considering giving growth hormone injections to children who are

expected to be " too short " with no disease as the cause:

http://story.news./news?tmpl=story & cid=541 & ncid=716 & e=6 & u=/ap/20030

611/ap_on_he_me/growth_hormone

-

June 11, 2003

HI,

I really encourage you to research and research BEFORE ANY vaccines

You have no idea at this point in time the dangers of them all

MANY can help here

Start with researching them first

Research the diseases and true risk or danger

Then if you think you want any vaccines, deal with that.

But, you may very well end up as many of us knowing that all vaccines are

dangerous and Russian Roulette

I have seen damage, autism and death from any single vaccine or combo -

mercury or no mercury

And I have seen damage and death at any age - infant, toddler, child, teen

& adult.

Stop and breathe and read and forget that nurse and who will pay for what

at the moment

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Homeopathy course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

June 11, 2003

I'm guessing that the nurse was right in her ability to refuse to

give me the vaccines I wanted. Am I correct?>>>>>

No,the nurse had no right to do that.It was just a tactic used by her to get you

to consent to all of them.Say for instance a mother goes in feeling very

strongly about giving the HIB/Prevnar,but is told she can only get it if she

does the DTaP/HepB,IPV(if this is even offered free).She is so concerned about

her child getting meningitis that she agrees to the rest so her baby can get the

protection of the HIB/prevnar vaccines.

She should be reported to the state nurse board.

Welcome to the list.

Sara in Ohio

June 11, 2003

I have always been under the assumption that if you

are going to public school at some point and wish to claim a religious

exemption that it was an all or nothing deal.>>>>

My thinking was(exemptions aside) that her dd is only 13 weeks old.There is no

law that says a parent must follow the *recommended* vacciantion schedule,and so

the nurse was out if line saying ll or nothing. The state laws apply to daycare

and school requirements,and until you are in that situation you can vaccinate(or

not) however you feel is most appropriate.I am sure the lists main page will

have a link to state by state daycare/school requirements.Best wishes!Sara

June 11, 2003

According to some threads at the mothering forum(Michigan),and I remember

reading Florida law(was going to move) food stamp assistance can be cut off or

reduced to families who do not do the recommended vaccine schedule.Whether this

is actually enforced I do not know.There are many people on govt programs such

as medicaid and wic who do not vaccinate.

Look up your local family and job services web page and see what you can find in

their regualtions section.

sara