Methotrexate

[Guest guest]

Hello to everyone. My name is and I have both psoriasis and pa just

like everyone else on the list. Im grateful that I (we) finally have

somewhere to go to get answers and positive support from each other.

And now for a little background......I have had psoriasis since I was 15 or

so and developed PA around the age of 21. I am now 25 and do everything I

can to make life as enjoyable as possible. I was very athletic before the PA

started and I long for the days of being able to run like the wind. I

originally started out taking indocin which really didnt help at all. I had

PA really bad in my feet, hips , and lower back. I then started oral mtx (

18 mgs a week) which made me sicker than a dog and did a little damage to my

liver. I now take mtx as a shot once a week, it still makes me feel sick to

my stomach but I guess Ive got to do what works. The PA is now mostly in my

knees, elbows, & fingers but it jumps around periodically to other areas.

All in all I think all of my joints have gone through a flare at one time or

another.

Well thanks for listening and God Bless.

Baxter

lschroe3 wrote:

> From: lschroe3 <lschroe3@...>

>

> Just wanted to tell the group that I tried taking three MTX pills once

> every week for three weeks and had a terrible reaction. First week I

> developed a sore on my tongue, the following week, more sores. By the

> end of the third week, my throat was closing off. I had called the

> doctor when I developed the first sore and he doubled my folic acid, but

> it obviously did not help. I also broke out with awful acne on my face

> and chest. And terrible pressure in my sinus cavities....like my head

> was filled with concrete.

>

> It has been eight days since my last dose and my throat is better, but

> still have some tongue sores.

>

> Have any other members of this group had a bad reaction to the MTX?

>

> Thanks.

>

>

> Poulsbo, WA.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription

> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and

> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

[Guest guest]

,

I am always battling with sores on my tongue and on my lips. My Rheumy

tells me to cut back on my dosage of MTX. I go from 3 back down to 1 a

week. I can never go above the 3 one week alternating with 2 the next.

It sure sounds like you are having a bad time with this. Have you

discussed this with your Rheumy? Sounds scary.

Take care of yourself.

Angera

[Guest guest]

I would like it please, 's Doctor said to take folic 2x a day. Even on

MTX night! She only gets cranky on MTX day no side effects at all.

[Guest guest]

I pass you this email about MXT and folic acid. I received it in the list of

leukemia where I suscribed.

The controversy arose when I mentioned Diego took Folic acid when we

supossed he had ARJ and the doctor prescibed him MTX. :-)

Regards,

María

***************

>>the treatment is oral maybe he need a additional suplement of folic

>> acid because MTX affects the production of it in the body

> Our docs said the opposite: do *not* take folic acid while taking

> methotrexate, because it may inhibit the usefulness of the

> methotrexate as a chemotherapy agent.

I have just recently gone through this very argument with our own

pedi-onc. We were originally told (last year) to only give Tina vitamins

that did NOT contain folic acid, because it interferes with

methotrexate. I investigated this, and found that this is basic to how

methotrexate works: it works because it is a folic acid agonist. You

see, folic acid helps cells to replicate themselves (that's why it is so

important to pregnant women!), and methotrexate works specifically by

disenabling folic acid -- keeping the cancerous cells from replicating.

However, since then, I have read many studies that show that folic acid

actually *reduces* the side effects of methotrexate *without* impeding

its clinical value! Meaning that taking folic acid (within certain

amounts) would cut down on side effects without cutting down on curing!

I asked my pedi-onc about these studies last month, and he looked into

it as well as having a third-party pharmacist look into it. Their

conclusion was that yes, the information about not taking folic acid was

old, that folic acid does help mitigate side effects without affecting

therapeutic value, but that WE personally should not change Tina's

vitamins to start including folic acid, because well, she's been doing

well and we don't want " fix what ain't broke. "

If anyone wants study references or specifics of what we discussed with

our oncs, let me know.

------------

>the treatment is oral maybe he need a additional suplement of folic acid

>because MTX affects the production of it in the body and one antiacid too.

Our docs said the opposite: do *not* take folic acid while taking

methotrexate, because it may inhibit the usefulness of the methotrexate as

a chemotherapy agent.

My son has few specific reactions to methotrexate, either oral or spinal.

Just in general makes him feel yucky: tired, headache, stomach upset. But

others have seen a host of side effects, usually but not always minor.

Good reference:

http://www.acor.org/ped-onc/treatment/methotrexate/methotrx.html

---------------------

Our oncologist warned me to not allow Alyssa to have extra folic acid, so

maybe that is not accurate. Please check with your oncologist before giving

your child any vitamins or supplements, as it might counteract the desired

effect of the MTX and make the chemotherapy ineffective

[Guest guest]

<!doctype html public " -//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en " >

<html>

Hi,

<p>Just thought I'd mention something I just read about in the arthritis

newsgroup. A posting last week said that folic acid should always be taken

at night. Has anyone here ever heard this before? I know they suggest prednisone

be taken in the early AM hours, since that's when the body releases it's

natural form of cortisol. But does anybody here know why it was suggested

that folic acid be taken in the nighttime? Just curious....

<p>~Georgina

<p>LinGS544@... wrote:

<blockquote TYPE=CITE>From: LinGS544@...

<p>I would like it please, 's Doctor said to take folic 2x a day. & nbsp;

Even on

<br>MTX night! & nbsp; She only gets cranky on MTX day no side effects at

all. </blockquote>

</html>

[Guest guest]

<!doctype html public " -//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en " >

<html>

Hi ,

<p>Thanks for your input. Josh wasn't taking folic acid until about 6 months

after he started taking methotrexate. The doc suggested that it might help

with his queeziness and it most certainly did! He's been taking it ever

since, except not on the day of MTX dose. As a side note, Josh was so happy

about not needing to take those 6 little yellow pills last night! We've

just started the sub cutaneous injections, as of Thursday. Tiny, painless

little needle done by a nurse at the outpatient cancer clinic at the hospital.

I'm so relieved that I didn't need to do the injections. I think it's good

that we've begun this at this time, just in case we go ahead with the growth

hormone treatments or try Enbrel at a future date. Let's Josh get accustomed

to it gradually :-)

<p>Hope Diego is doing well, and you and your husband too, of course :-)

<p>Aloha,

<br>Georgina

<p> " Siabala, " wrote:

<blockquote TYPE=CITE>From: " Siabala, " & lt;MSiabala@...>

<p>I pass you this email about MXT and folic acid. I received it in the

list of

<br>leukemia where I suscribed.

<br>The controversy arose when I mentioned Diego took Folic acid when we

<br>supossed he had ARJ and the doctor prescibed him MTX. :-)

<br>Regards,

<br>Mar & iacute;a

<p>Good reference:

<br><a

href= " http://www.acor.org/ped-onc/treatment/methotrexate/methotrx.html " >http://w\

ww.acor.org/ped-onc/treatment/methotrexate/methotrx.html</a></blockquote>

</html>

[Guest guest]

That is interesting Cooky. My docs at the NIH said no problems with using

them together, as did my regular rheumie, Dr. Kempf. In fact they were

going to do studies at NIH using mino and metho together, although I do not

see any trials at their site regarding this. I will pass that page on to my

NIH doctor for his feedback. I had read that about Nsaids, but as Dr. Kempf

said - " that's why I'm here - to monitor you and if you start to get side

effects, we will change things " - hmmmm...... I also asked the pharmacist

about nsaids and metho and she said it could be tough on your kidneys, but

what was one supposed to do?

Mark

rheumatic methotrexate

> From: Cooky <cooky1@...>

>

> While looking for some information for another sufferer I happend to

> come across a message from from a while ago. This is particularly

> interesting for those of you on DEMARDS.

>

> http://www.cadlardrheumatic (DOT) org/mtx.htm

>

>

>

> cooky

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, Mark, I believe you are also on Lodine, which is harder on the kidney

and liver than most other NSAIDs. Might want to throw that question in, too.

Jean

----------

>From: MHOLMES@... (HOLMES, MARK T.)

> " Cooky " <cooky1@...>

>Subject: Re: rheumatic methotrexate

>Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999, 10:40 PM

>

> From: MHOLMES@... (HOLMES, MARK T.)

>

> That is interesting Cooky. My docs at the NIH said no problems with using

> them together, as did my regular rheumie, Dr. Kempf. In fact they were

> going to do studies at NIH using mino and metho together, although I do not

> see any trials at their site regarding this. I will pass that page on to my

> NIH doctor for his feedback. I had read that about Nsaids, but as Dr. Kempf

> said - " that's why I'm here - to monitor you and if you start to get side

> effects, we will change things " - hmmmm...... I also asked the pharmacist

> about nsaids and metho and she said it could be tough on your kidneys, but

> what was one supposed to do?

>

> Mark

> rheumatic methotrexate

>

>

>> From: Cooky <cooky1@...>

>>

>> While looking for some information for another sufferer I happend to

>> come across a message from from a while ago. This is particularly

>> interesting for those of you on DEMARDS.

>>

>> http://www.cadlardrheumatic (DOT) org/mtx.htm

>>

>>

>>

>> cooky

>>

>>

>

> >

[Guest guest]

You might want to talk to further. Mark, I know you believe in

your doc but they don't know a lot about AP. My own opinion..but...I

think letting you stay on the AP was a way to get you on the Meth. I

know you think you are doing the right thing and I don't want to put you

down. Remember the meth for one of the other girls (by dr Franco) was

only to get the inflamation down. And only for a short while. Again you

need to do what is necessary for you.

cooky

" HOLMES, MARK T. " wrote:

>

> From: MHOLMES@... (HOLMES, MARK T.)

>

> That is interesting Cooky. My docs at the NIH said no problems with using

> them together, as did my regular rheumie, Dr. Kempf. In fact they were

> going to do studies at NIH using mino and metho together, although I do not

> see any trials at their site regarding this. I will pass that page on to my

> NIH doctor for his feedback. I had read that about Nsaids, but as Dr. Kempf

> said - " that's why I'm here - to monitor you and if you start to get side

> effects, we will change things " - hmmmm...... I also asked the pharmacist

> about nsaids and metho and she said it could be tough on your kidneys, but

> what was one supposed to do?

>

> Mark

> rheumatic methotrexate

>

> > From: Cooky <cooky1@...>

> >

> > While looking for some information for another sufferer I happend to

> > come across a message from from a while ago. This is particularly

> > interesting for those of you on DEMARDS.

> >

> > http://www.cadlardrheumatic (DOT) org/mtx.htm

> >

> >

> >

> > cooky

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, Dr. Kempf took over Cap Oliver's practice, who had taken over Dr.

Brown's practice, so Dr. Kempf is quite aware of minocycline and Dr. Brown's

studies. Of course, that doesn't mean he is a full fledged evangelist

(and he isn't) . I think he believes it works for some people, but not for

all. And I think it depends on how aggressive your disease may be - if

someone has a fairly early, mild form, then the mino may kick it quickly,

but if not, not even IV's may do the trick. And you may be correct that

all the docs agreed to let me stay on mino hoping that I would agree to the

metho. But I am not dissatisfied with my decision at this moment, as I am

doing better, although not where I want to be yet. My thinking it that the

metho will be short term too, to give the mino a chance to do it's job

better. I think I am taking a cautious approach to this new regimen and

hope it is short term - if a year from now, I am on all the stuff Tony is

on, then please come kick me in the shins. )

If your home doc was reluctant to do the IV's initially, what made him

change his mind after you came back from your Kempf experience?

Mark

rheumatic methotrexate

> >

> > > From: Cooky <cooky1@...>

> > >

> > > While looking for some information for another sufferer I happend to

> > > come across a message from from a while ago. This is

particularly

> > > interesting for those of you on DEMARDS.

> > >

> > > http://www.cadlardrheumatic (DOT) org/mtx.htm

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > cooky

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

as you may recall, I replied to the note posted by Cooky (see very bottom of

this email) note by suggesting that I would send this web site info to my

NIH doctor via email. He replied today, so I thought I would post his

reply.

Dear Mr Holmes

I looked into the tetracylines and MTX in the current AHFS drug

information and the handbook of drug interactions and can find no evidence

of the mechanism proposed by whoever posted that information. It is true

that tetracyclines can alter GI flora but in fact there is no metabolism of

methotrexate inside the lumen of the GI tract so I have no idea where this

person got this idea!

Below is an excerpt from the REAL AHFS description of the

pharmacokinetics of methotrexate - feel free to post this in response to

clear up another piece of web-misinformation

I am glad to hear you are feeling a bit better - usually peak

effects of a particular dose of MTX are not seen until 4-8 weeks.

M. Siegel, M.D., Ph.D.

Research Associate

LI, NIAID NIH

Bldg 10 Rm 11N311

Bethesda MD 20892-1892

Excerpt:

In doses of 0.1 mg (of methotrexate) per kg, methotrexate sodium is

completely absorbed from the GI tract; larger oral doses may be incompletely

absorbed. After absorption, methotrexate undergoes hepatic and

intracellular metabolism to form methotrexate polyglutamates, metabolites

which by hydrolysis may be converted back to methotrexate. Methotrexate

polyglutamates inhibit dihydrofolate reductase and thymidylate synthetase.

Copyright© 1999 Am. Society Health-System Pharmacists. All rights

reserved.

rheumatic methotrexate

> From: Cooky <cooky1@...>

>

> While looking for some information for another sufferer I happend to

> come across a message from from a while ago. This is particularly

> interesting for those of you on DEMARDS.

>

> http://www.cadlardrheumatic (DOT) org/mtx.htm

>

>

>

> cooky

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mark,

I'm taking this out of a drug book called the Pocket PDR. When I go to

work I will look it up in the regular PDR.

Certain antibiotics including tetracycline may reduce the effectiveness

of Methotrexate. This is also true of vitamins that contain folic acid.

cooky

" HOLMES, MARK T. " wrote:

>

> as you may recall, I replied to the note posted by Cooky (see very bottom of

> this email) note by suggesting that I would send this web site info to my

> NIH doctor via email. He replied today, so I thought I would post his

> reply.

>

> Dear Mr Holmes

>

> I looked into the tetracylines and MTX in the current AHFS drug

> information and the handbook of drug interactions and can find no evidence

> of the mechanism proposed by whoever posted that information. It is true

> that tetracyclines can alter GI flora but in fact there is no metabolism of

> methotrexate inside the lumen of the GI tract so I have no idea where this

> person got this idea!

>

> Below is an excerpt from the REAL AHFS description of the

> pharmacokinetics of methotrexate - feel free to post this in response to

> clear up another piece of web-misinformation

>

> I am glad to hear you are feeling a bit better - usually peak

> effects of a particular dose of MTX are not seen until 4-8 weeks.

>

>

>

> M. Siegel, M.D., Ph.D.

> Research Associate

> LI, NIAID NIH

> Bldg 10 Rm 11N311

> Bethesda MD 20892-1892

>

> Excerpt:

> In doses of 0.1 mg (of methotrexate) per kg, methotrexate sodium is

> completely absorbed from the GI tract; larger oral doses may be incompletely

> absorbed. After absorption, methotrexate undergoes hepatic and

> intracellular metabolism to form methotrexate polyglutamates, metabolites

> which by hydrolysis may be converted back to methotrexate. Methotrexate

> polyglutamates inhibit dihydrofolate reductase and thymidylate synthetase.

>

> Copyright© 1999 Am. Society Health-System Pharmacists. All rights

> reserved.

>

> rheumatic methotrexate

>

> > From: Cooky <cooky1@...>

> >

> > While looking for some information for another sufferer I happend to

> > come across a message from from a while ago. This is particularly

> > interesting for those of you on DEMARDS.

> >

> > http://www.cadlardrheumatic (DOT) org/mtx.htm

> >

> >

> >

> > cooky

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Cooky,

In regards to folic acid:

" Folic acid-containing supplements may interfere with methotrexate therapy

in people with cancer. People using methotrexate for cancer treatment should

ask their prescribing doctor before using any folic acid-containing

supplements. Until recently, it was believed that methotrexate helped people

with rheumatoid arthritis also by interfering with folic acid metabolism.

However, recent research has shown that this is not so. In fact, it now

appears that people with rheumatoid arthritis taking methotrexate should

supplement large amounts of folic acid, and the same now appears to be true

for people with severe psoriatic arthritis who are taking methotrexate.

However, high levels of folic acid should not be taken without clinical

supervision. " This is from

http://www.healthshop.com/healthfact/default.asp?healthfacts_id=342 & category

_id=233 & referid=tw

I remember Dr. Siegel mentioning that there is one school of thought that it

can interfere with the effectiveness of methotrexate, so he does not have

his patients take it on the day they take their methotrexate. Dr. Kempf

does not normally prescribe it until he sees side effects. Just about

everyone I know on metho takes folic acid to reduce side effects. At this

point, I take the OTC folic acid - Dr. Siegel said 1 mg dosages as I take,

it is harmless. Whether the OTC is as effective as prescription folic acid,

I can't speak to. I know that so far I am having zero side effects with the

10mg dosage.

Let me know what you find in the regular PDR concerning mino and metho.

It's good to hash this stuff out - hope you don't mind me bouncing this off

my NIH guy - that's what we pay taxes for. I think it is commendable

that he takes the time to look it up and reply.

Mark

rheumatic methotrexate

> >

> > > From: Cooky <cooky1@...>

> > >

> > > While looking for some information for another sufferer I happend to

> > > come across a message from from a while ago. This is

particularly

> > > interesting for those of you on DEMARDS.

> > >

> > > http://www.cadlardrheumatic (DOT) org/mtx.htm

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > cooky

> > >

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the input. The blood tests do become

annoying. I am on my eighth week of mtx. Hoping to get

off it for a while.

I have just recently been developing stomach problems.

A lot of sharp pains etc..Hope its nothing..

I hope to be off mtx someday, even for just a little

bit, but learning to accept all of this.

Thanks

--- Charbonneau <sec@...> wrote:

> Dear :

>

> I have been on and off methotrexate for 19 years.

> It has worked okay on

> the arthritis, great on the psoriasis. I have more

> problems with NSAIDs

> (gastritis/ulcers). Methotrexate took 2-4 weeks to

> take some effect. I

> maintain a minimal dose (7.5) and for many years had

> my blood work every

> month. My veins are in pretty bad shape. Now, I

> only get blood tests

> every 6 weeks and I never had a liver biopsy.

> Whenever my

> Rheumatologist suggested it, I went off the meds.

> Now, most feel that a

> liver biopsy is not always necessary. I have stayed

> on Methotrexate for

> as long 2 years. The longest that I have been off

> is 1 year. I do not

> drink alcohol very much and do not stay in the sun

> because here in

> Hawaii it is very intense. Over the last few years,

> I have noticed that

> I get more colds than I used to, (I am 46). I do

> get my flu shot every

> year and take vitamins daily. Hope this answers

> some questions.

> Aloha,

>

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Please visit our new web page at:

> http://www.wpunj.edu/icip/pa

>

<HR>

<html>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Does anybody know why some of the messages I receive are question marks see

below? This is not a group thing it sometimes happens with non group

emails.

>??›??•???????????????????????????????????†??????????????????????????????†??

??????????????????????????4????????????????????†††??????????‡????????????›??

4??????7??????????????‡?????????‡???????????????????????????????????????????

????????????????????????????????

Mike

Botswana

rheumatic Methotrexate

>??›??•???????????????????????????????????†??????????????????????????????†??

??????????????????????????4????????????????????†††??????????‡????????????›??

4??????7??????????????‡?????????‡???????????????????????????????????????????

????????????????????????????????

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich:

I've been on methotrexate for a few months now but have been weaning off of

it since I started the AP with minocycline 4 weeks ago. I was up to 4 pills

week and this Sunday will be down to 2. I also just this week increased

minocycline from 50mg 2x day to 100mg. 2x day with no problems so far....

I have to say the methotrexate did allow me to get off prednisone and for

that I was very grateful. It really helped; I was weaned onto methotrexate

and off prednisone. But, of course, methotrexate is scary stuff. When I

first started taking it, I was really fatigued and spacey for a day

afterwards (like being hung over but without the fun the day before!). I

take it on Sundays, and usually on Mondays I am still foggy, can't focus very

well.

I am really looking forward to getting off of it. Hope this helps.

Babs

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark: After reading your response, I have to add that I, too, still have

pains in hands, wrists, shoulders, knees (with lovely nodules), and ankles.

My local rheumy (pre-Dr. Trentham) who put me on this said that some people

take NSAIDS (i.e. in his case, Celebrex) to " take the edge off " .

It was my impression that even with increased methotrexate, not all my

symptoms would be completely relieved. I didn't think that increasing the

MX. would have taken the edge off but, then again, I didn't ask. He knew I

was not thrilled about these meds to begin with. I am opposed to taking

drugs that require testing every 30 days (liver) to see if any damage has

occurred yet....and I didn't have good first experience with him anyway

'cause I had to have a 2nd opinion rheumy write to him that I was

" palendroming " big time, then he wanted to put me on Plaquenil which required

thorough eye examination for base line (to gauge future eye damage from

THAT), and I found out by my own research at the last minute that I can't

take Plaquenil anyway 'cause it has quinine which is contra'd for my

Myasthenia Gravis!

Do I trust most doctors? Not really but then again, I've just about seen it

all with my illnesses. I read whatever I can get my hands on.

And whining is good, Mark, we all need to do that at times!

Babs

PS To group: I've asked before but didn't get any response: Is there

anyone else who also has Myasthenia Gravis? When I went to see Dr. Trentham

1st time 3 weeks ago, he was kind of freaked out 'cause the pt. he saw just

before me for RA also had MG......any feedback from fellow MG with RA would

be so appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Rich,

I've been on 100mg mino 2x/day,daily for about 18 months. About 3 months

ago, I added 10mg of Methotrexate to that equation, as the minocycline for

me seemed to have stalled after about 6 months (keep in mind that that is

only my situation and that it's effectiveness varies widely between

individuals).

Unlike Babs who feels spacey and fatigued on metho, I haven't noticed any

side effects since taking it, except that I've felt better in general. My

knees had been giving me fits all during the Spring and Summer and are now

much, much better - not 100%, but at least 80% better. Hands still continue

to remain stiff and sore and shoulders could certainly be better (reaching

behind me will bring on some strong shooting pains still, particularly with

my left shoulder). So it hasn't been a cure-all at this point, although it

has propelled me past the serious pain of this past summer.

The question now - should I bump up to 15mg/week to maybe get my hands and

shoulders some more relief? Do I like taking this drug - not really. Do I

trust my doctors or doctors in general to care for me? - in a word - no.

But having no particular side effects at the moment encourages me to not

give up on it just yet, in the hopes that maybe they will find out some more

info on those damn enzymes scurrying around the insides of those poor little

mice and concoct a cure out of that (although, if trusting to the medical

world, the cure may be worse than the disease . See , I'm coming

over to your way of thinking. LOL

When I present my doctor with information on mycoplasmas and Dr. Nicolson's

work, his favorite word is " bullshit " , which is rather amusing, but not all

that helpful. (I'm referring to an Inter.Med. doctor,whom I'm seeing

locally). So it is time to venture off again to find another doc -

unfortunately, finding a doc who is " curious " in an HMO network is a trying

adventure. Will probably have to go outside of that, which is cost

prohibitive - I am already spending a minor fortune on this stupid disease

just pumping supplements in myself, not to mention buying health insurance

on my own. What I think I really need is a nice big tractor trailer to run

over me while crossing the road, - then you all would be spared this

whimpering and I would save some money. LOL

Mark

P.S. Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving and gorged yourself silly and are

all now praying to Dr. Mercola for forgiveness! And I hope my neighbors to

the North cheated and gorged themselves as well and to my friends in

Australia and New Zealand, hopefully you didn't eat one of those cute little

Koala bears down there.

Fwd: rheumatic Methotrexate

>

>

[Guest guest]

> From: MHOLMES@... (HOLMES, MARK T.)

>

>

> When I present my doctor with information on mycoplasmas and Dr.

Nicolson's

> work, his favorite word is " bullshit " , which is rather amusing, but not

all

> that helpful. (I'm referring to an Inter.Med. doctor,whom I'm seeing

> locally). So it is time to venture off again to find another doc -

> unfortunately, finding a doc who is " curious " in an HMO network is a

trying

> adventure. Will probably have to go outside of that, which is cost

> prohibitive - I am already spending a minor fortune on this stupid disease

> just pumping supplements in myself, not to mention buying health insurance

> on my own. What I think I really need is a nice big tractor trailer to

run

> over me while crossing the road, - then you all would be spared this

> whimpering and I would save some money. LOL

I would like to reply to this not too bright doctor with a quote from Dr.

Gabe Mirkin, " Nicolson is right, those who disagree with him are all wrong. "

IF doctors like this one you see ever read Nicolson's vita they would shut

up. IT takes about 40 pages to list all his peer reviewed medical journal

articles, and his post PhD positions started out at a very high position in

the Salk Institute and ended up at the MD Cancer center where he

was a top researcher before leaving there to work full time on Gulf War

Illness. But we wouldn't want to bother busy doctors with all this

information would we! :-)

a Carnes

[Guest guest]

Mark,

I know how you feel...but I don't know if you should up the methotrexate! I

know docs use it with AP so perhaps you will hear from some Franco or Mercola

or Trentham patients.

This is a trying and expensive disease! Redoing our budget, we saw so much

of our money went to my seeing doctors and my supplements and my organic

special foods and acupuncture etc! It does get very trying...but forget the

tractor...you might just end up needing more care from your wonderful HMO

crew (LOL).

I hope you had a great thanksgiving and that everyone else did too and ate

their brains out! I loved your comment about our " cheating " on our diets. I

know I did, the only problem was that there was no chocolate to cheat with.

Bummer.

Glad to hear your knees are better. Hope the upper body heals too!

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Hi: Yes, methotrexate helped me tremendously. I gave it time, weaning off

prednisone while increasing methotrexate. Felt terrifically improved.

BUT I do not wish to stay on something that is potentially detrimental to my

liver and general health, and also which may fail in the long-term, when

there is a safer, more effective treatment. I don't want to relieve symptoms

- I want to get rid of the source. Which is why I am weaning off MX and onto

Minocycline. Believe me, I was torn about the decision because of the relief

I've obtained but in the long run......no thanks!

Babs

[Guest guest]

Methotrexate is still used to treat leukemia (sp) at about 100 times the

doseage level as RA treatments.

> My rheumy told me

> the same thing. I was up to 6 tablets a week and I think they are

> 2.5 mg each so that's 15 mg a week which he said was a small

> dose.

>According to my last rheumy, methotrexate (in

> muchhigher dosage than used for RA) is a form of

> chemotherapy used with cancer patients.........<

[Guest guest]

,

My rheumy told me the same thing. I was up to 6 tablets a week and I think

they are 2.5 mg each so that's 15 mg a week which he said was a small dose.

I thought that was high.

Bev

According to my last rheumy, methotrexate (in much much higher dosage than

used for RA) is a form of chemotherapy used with cancer patients.........

[Guest guest]

15 mg then is a small dose in comparison then. I would hate to have the

side effects of that dose. The whole time I took it I had diahhrea which

ended about two months after I stopped taking it.

Re:rheumatic Methotrexate

> From: " R r " <amble151@...>

>

> Methotrexate is still used to treat leukemia (sp) at about 100 times the

> doseage level as RA treatments.

[Guest guest]

Yep, then you should hope you never have cancer, as the dosages are in the

GRAMS, not milligrams. We truly are getting very small dosages of

methotrexate at 10mg or 15mg or even 25 mg. That's not to say it is a drug

to take likely even at these dosages, but the side effects are generally

minimal, certainly so when compared to what a cancer patient has to endure.

Now with that statement, my hair will probably start falling out and I'll

develop lung toxicity. God forbid. So far, so good - no side effects after

about 3 months.

Mark

http://Mark_Holmes.tripod.com

RA 4/98 AP 7/98

Minocycline (Lederle generic) 100mg 2x/day MWF;Methotrexate (10mg/once

weekly); folic acid (1 mg/day); Lodine 400mg 3x/day;Zone Diet;;Fish Oil(9

caps/day);acidopholus;Milk Thistle;MSM (2G/day);Calcium;Multi-Vit

ICQ 18123139

AOL IM - ATHiker95

Re:rheumatic Methotrexate

>

>

> > From: " R r " <amble151@...>

> >

> > Methotrexate is still used to treat leukemia (sp) at about 100 times the

> > doseage level as RA treatments.

>

>