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I'd be interested to hear more about acupuncture -- has anyone else done it?

B. reported that he got no benefit from it,

samters/message/1625

Like wise Anne Drouin,

samters/message/1552

Lynn, do you really think it was the acupuncture or the diet?

Is there any reason you didn't keep doing it?

regards,

Ken West

> From: Lynn Strother <lynn.strother@...>

> Reply-samters

> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:43:32 -0800

> <samters >

> Subject: New to the list

>

.. . . snip . . .

>

> One thing that worked extremely well for me and even brought back my sense

> of smell for about a year was a course of acupuncture administered in 1989

> by a very experienced Chinese acupuncturist, Dr. Ha, here in Santa .

> At that time I was also on a wheat- and dairy-free diet. I was really

> amazed at how my asthma diminished, I had incredible energy, and really,

> best of all, I could smell! Since then I've experienced no emergency room

.. . . snip . . .

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Dear All,

I had acupuncture treatments about three times a week over the course of three months, and then the frequency went down to once a week for a few months, then once a month. I discontinued treatment because it seemed to have diminishing returns after the initial dramatic period. The treatment was, in a sense, holistic, but I have since tried the wheat-free/dairy-free diet without achieving the same results. Note: I was also exercising quite a bit during this time. (It was great because I lost about 30 pounds in time for my 20th high school reunion!!) I have to say, it was probably the time in my life when I felt healthiest and remember thinking that this was how I was " supposed " to feel. But I also have to say that I did marathon training last year and was up to nine miles before it just got to be too much of a time commitment.

Also, I took as many treatments as I could afford. At this time, medical insurance did not cover acupuncture, but now my insurance does cover partial payments.

There are lots of theories about what makes acupuncture work, but I'm not sure that Western medicine can really capture it--my acupuncturist had been raised in China and was taught by his grandfather, a master acupuncturist, from the age of 12. He also spent a few years at Harvard Medical school. I was impressed, and cannot discount the possibility of the placebo effect also being at work. Not that I cared!!!! I believe that it provided significant anti-inflammatory relief.

I am fairly certain that this would not work as a one-shot deal. Although it certainly isn't for everybody, having read about the courage of this group in taking on aspirin desensitization, I wouldn't think being a human pincushion would stop you! What's great about acupuncture is that, in the hands of a responsible licensed provider who takes precautions about using disposable needles, etc., there is virtually no risk, at least I've never heard of anyone who got worse.

I also referred several friends with severe asthma (but not Samters) to the same practitioner and they experienced significant improvement.

Lynn

on 12/13/2003 10:01 AM, Ken West at kenwest@... wrote:

I'd be interested to hear more about acupuncture -- has anyone else done it?

B. reported that he got no benefit from it,

samters/message/1625

Like wise Anne Drouin,

samters/message/1552

Lynn, do you really think it was the acupuncture or the diet?

Is there any reason you didn't keep doing it?

regards,

Ken West

> From: Lynn Strother <lynn.strother@...>

> Reply-samters

> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:43:32 -0800

> <samters >

> Subject: New to the list

>

.. . . snip . . .

>

> One thing that worked extremely well for me and even brought back my sense

> of smell for about a year was a course of acupuncture administered in 1989

> by a very experienced Chinese acupuncturist, Dr. Ha, here in Santa .

> At that time I was also on a wheat- and dairy-free diet. I was really

> amazed at how my asthma diminished, I had incredible energy, and really,

> best of all, I could smell! Since then I've experienced no emergency room

.. . . snip . . .

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I interestingly had an experience with acupuncture that not only

didn't help, but made my polyps worse!

I think acupuncture can help with lots of things, and I would have

really liked for it to work on the Samters. But for whatever reason

when I was getting the treatment, which was mostly for the polyps, my

polyps got bigger and bigger and bigger until they were coming out of

my nose and I needed surgery again.

The acupuncturist said perhaps I should wait and my body would

naturally reverse the process, it was a balancing process, and many

conditions DO get worse with acupuncture before they get better.

While I actually still do believe this may be true and it makes sense

with the theories of acupuncture, I could not wait to see because I

was too miserable and sick.

I do think it was the acupuncture that made the polyps worse in my

case. Since acupuncture is supposed to release blockage, my theory

was always that there is NO blockage on my polyps pathway,

and " unblocking " those passages was exactly the wrong thing to do. I

don't know. :)

If others have tried it and had other results I would love to hear

them. Because of my personal experience I don't think I'd ever try

it again.

Lori

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  • 3 months later...
Guest guest

This is a response to message 8 from Ronnie regarding acupuncture.

I have acupuncture treatments at least once a month and have found them very

effective in treating pain and mobility. It isn't a cure for PA mind you, but

just having relief for a couple of days is a big deal. Some insurances will

cover acupuncture treatments for pain management as well. Mind doesn't, but my

daughter-in-law is a licensed acupuncturist and that certainly helps.

The acupuncturist will do a very detailed in-take report with you, and then

treat you according to your specific symptoms. Try it, and let me know how you

are.

Best,

e van Gils

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest guest

I am seeing an acupuncturist for thyroid and now fertility (possibly related

to thyroid??) and my sessions are at least one hour long.....and often 1 1/2

hours...and each session costs me $57.

Amy in MO

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Guest guest

I don't understand the opposition to thryoid meds. You can spend

modest $$ on Armour and get relief or you can spend much $$$ on

supplements and alternative therapies. What is the difference

between taking herbs versus taking the hormone yor body is craving?

> I am seeing an acupuncturist for thyroid and now fertility

(possibly related

> to thyroid??) and my sessions are at least one hour long.....and

often 1 1/2

> hours...and each session costs me $57.

>

> Amy in MO

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Yes Sherry, but you can just get better, or you can get healthy!

Re: Acupuncture

I don't understand the opposition to thryoid meds. You can spend

modest $$ on Armour and get relief or you can spend much $$$ on

supplements and alternative therapies. What is the difference

between taking herbs versus taking the hormone yor body is craving?

> I am seeing an acupuncturist for thyroid and now fertility

(possibly related

> to thyroid??) and my sessions are at least one hour long.....and

often 1 1/2

> hours...and each session costs me $57.

>

> Amy in MO

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Yes there is no substitue for real medicine (from someone who suffered for

30 years without and tried every treatment under the sun). My current ND

gives me Rxs for 2 months and then I have to beg for more. I guess he

thinks I will spontaneously recover.

Gracia

> I don't understand the opposition to thryoid meds. You can spend

> modest $$ on Armour and get relief or you can spend much $$$ on

> supplements and alternative therapies. What is the difference

> between taking herbs versus taking the hormone yor body is craving?

>

>

> > I am seeing an acupuncturist for thyroid and now fertility

> (possibly related

> > to thyroid??) and my sessions are at least one hour long.....and

> often 1 1/2

> > hours...and each session costs me $57.

> >

> > Amy in MO

> >

> >

> >

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Guest guest

an ND can prescribe armour?

Re: Re: Acupuncture

>

> Yes there is no substitue for real medicine (from someone who suffered for

> 30 years without and tried every treatment under the sun). My current ND

> gives me Rxs for 2 months and then I have to beg for more. I guess he

> thinks I will spontaneously recover.

> Gracia

>

>

> > I don't understand the opposition to thryoid meds. You can spend

> > modest $$ on Armour and get relief or you can spend much $$$ on

> > supplements and alternative therapies. What is the difference

> > between taking herbs versus taking the hormone yor body is craving?

> >

> >

> > > I am seeing an acupuncturist for thyroid and now fertility

> > (possibly related

> > > to thyroid??) and my sessions are at least one hour long.....and

> > often 1 1/2

> > > hours...and each session costs me $57.

> > >

> > > Amy in MO

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

i think so...not 100% positive though. I vaguely remember someone from another

group saying they could. sheila

Kim <kckim@...> wrote:an ND can prescribe armour?

Re: Re: Acupuncture

>

> Yes there is no substitue for real medicine (from someone who suffered for

> 30 years without and tried every treatment under the sun). My current ND

> gives me Rxs for 2 months and then I have to beg for more. I guess he

> thinks I will spontaneously recover.

> Gracia

>

>

> > I don't understand the opposition to thryoid meds. You can spend

> > modest $$ on Armour and get relief or you can spend much $$$ on

> > supplements and alternative therapies. What is the difference

> > between taking herbs versus taking the hormone yor body is craving?

> >

> >

> > > I am seeing an acupuncturist for thyroid and now fertility

> > (possibly related

> > > to thyroid??) and my sessions are at least one hour long.....and

> > often 1 1/2

> > > hours...and each session costs me $57.

> > >

> > > Amy in MO

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

in Maine an ND can prescribe bioidentical hormones like cortef , Armour,

compounded progestrone and estrogens and testosterone. I have 3 Rxs, all

natural hormones that cannot be patented.

Gracia

> an ND can prescribe armour?

>

>

>

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Guest guest

> What my MD explained is that early in the hypothyroid process,

something like Synthroid might work okay. After a while, the body

tires from the stress of the thyroid not working properly and then

you may have conversion problems and need Armour.

Interesting - that is the scenario I have traveled. I geuss I find

it hard to understand because I forget where I started. This

condition occurred inspite of taking vitamins, balanced diet, rest,

and exercise. I can't imagine how bad I would have felt if that

weren't the case.

Thanks for the input!

Sherry

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Guest guest

Hi ...

Yes...she is located in Springfield. I have been having acupuncture weekly

since July, 2003. I can't say I have really " seen " anything....I don't know

how effective it has been on my fertility....But I do feel my thyroid is being

better managed with the acupuncture assisting my meds.

I have missed the last couple of weeks due to scheduling conflicts and I am

more tired and seem a bit more stressed than when I am going to her.

When I started seeing her...I was way whacked out. Hormones all messed

up...she turned me on to an OB-Gyn that has been willing to help me try some

different things rather than moving on to IVF & donor egg (which two others

wanted

me to do).

Good luck!

Amy

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Guest guest

Hi Gracia,

Thanks for all the great info. I tried Armour last year for a few months and

was up to 1 1/2 grains and did not feel any better. I had been doing fine up

until a few months ago when I was under a lot of stress and it seems like it

came back. I don't want to start taking a prescription if I don't have to. I

don't know if that makes sense. I guess I'm hoping my thyroid will start

working right on if I give it a little pep talk(: Just joking. I do wonder

though how I was able to feel better on my own without the meds for so long and

now I'm back to where I was. It seem like the weather contributes a lot to my

symptoms. When it's sunny and warm outside I'm much better than when it's rainy

and cloudy. Anyone else relate? Thanks again!

Gracia <circe@...> wrote:

Yes there is no substitue for real medicine (from someone who suffered for

30 years without and tried every treatment under the sun). My current ND

gives me Rxs for 2 months and then I have to beg for more. I guess he

thinks I will spontaneously recover.

Gracia

> I don't understand the opposition to thryoid meds. You can spend

> modest $$ on Armour and get relief or you can spend much $$$ on

> supplements and alternative therapies. What is the difference

> between taking herbs versus taking the hormone yor body is craving?

>

>

> > I am seeing an acupuncturist for thyroid and now fertility

> (possibly related

> > to thyroid??) and my sessions are at least one hour long.....and

> often 1 1/2

> > hours...and each session costs me $57.

> >

> > Amy in MO

> >

> >

> >

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Guest guest

Hi Amy,

I live in St. Louis. Is your acupuncturist in the area? I ended up cancelling

my appt. in San Francisco (just out here visiting my boyfriend for a week)

because it was going to end up costing me $500 after all was said and done. I

would like to try it. What effects have you had from the treatment? Thanks!

MSBULLHEAD@... wrote:

I am seeing an acupuncturist for thyroid and now fertility (possibly related

to thyroid??) and my sessions are at least one hour long.....and often 1 1/2

hours...and each session costs me $57.

Amy in MO

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  • 8 months later...

I was fortunate to go to a Physiotherapy Clinic that used acupuncture as part of

the treatment of my shoulders and knees. It works, I really can't understand

why, but it works. As you might recognize, I am very cautious with alternative

treatments, so approached the acupuncture a skeptic. My physiotherapist

converted me in the use of acupuncture.

+Dave

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  • 2 months later...
Guest guest

I've heard of acupuncture being used to help relieve the symptoms of A. I haven't heard of it curing the problems, but I haven't done too much research into it myself.

Outdoors

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Guest guest

Carolyn Moon provided some good literature on the site recently regarding

accunpuncture

points specifically for megaoespohgaus and achalasia. I use accupuncture and

have done

so for about 15 months -- it has stabilized the progression of my symptoms and

has

provided some relief from side effects of the calcium channel blockers I take to

relieve

pressure in my LES. I am not looking for accupuncture as a cure, but as a

component of

my overall treatment. I also use other health-supporting methods to keep me

stable while

awaiting western medical treatment.

PS Carolyn -- my L-Ac is using the points offered in the literature you

provided. He has

done one session and will do several more next week in close succession as

suggested.

He said the combination of points was the " full court press " of digestive and

diaphram

points. He had used a " baby version " of that protocol on me previously. We

shall see!

peg

>

> Can acupuncture be used as a treatment for Achalasia?

> Any information you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

> Anita

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest guest

Dr. Medlin-

Interesting article. I found the following excerpt to be analogous to Chiropractic utilization/referral:

Because evidence for the effectiveness of acupuncture in pain management is inconclusive by the standards of best evidence as adopted by the NIH Consensus Panel and others using a purely evidence-based medicine standard, the referring physician often sees it as the last resort for patients. This places the acupuncturist at the unenviable end of a long chain of evaluations, consultations, treatments, and procedures before the patient is finally referred for acupuncture. It also creates an adverse selection bias, leaving acupuncture as an option only for those patients who fail to respond to all other methods, and sometimes creates unrealistic expectations for patients. A more rational approach would be to recognize the potential role of acupuncture earlier in the treatment of potentially disabling and chronic illnesses. An example would be its use earlier in the treatment of low back pain, perhaps at the critical juncture of between 6 and 8 weeks, when acute back pain often starts to convert to chronic back pain. Starting earlier in the chain of treatment may reduce the cost of expensive evaluations, can lower the burden of patient suffering, and might improve back-to-work statistics. More extensive outcome studies are needed in evaluating the role of acupuncture in low back pain before it can be recommended as the standard of care, though certain patients may clearly benefit.

Thanks for the post,

Seitz, DC

Tuality Physicians

730-D SE Oak St

Hillsboro, OR 97123

(503)640-3724

acupuncture

Thought this may be an interesting read. Interesting how the medical profession views this, (similarities to chiropractic????).

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/501973?src=mp

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St. #6Portland, OR 97211ph. 503-788-6800c. 503-889-6204OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

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Guest guest

Thats funny Dr. Seitz, I had copied that same excerpt and forgot to paste it when i sent it the second time. Very interesting

Joe Medlin DC

acupuncture

Thought this may be an interesting read. Interesting how the medical profession views this, (similarities to chiropractic????).

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/501973?src=mp

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St. #6Portland, OR 97211ph. 503-788-6800c. 503-889-6204OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

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Guest guest

With no offense to any of our Acupunturist Physicians, with the exception of

the last 3 lines, one could insert the word 'chiropractic' in place of the

word 'acupuncture' and describe my feeling about placement of structural

care in the scheme of allopathic thought. We, however, have the advantage

that studies HAVE been done and HAVE proved the efficiacy .... but then

ignored.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC

Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon

56 Oakway Center

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541-683-5600

>From: " BRIAN SEITZ " <dcdocbrian@...>

> " oregon DCs " < >

>Subject: Re: acupuncture

>Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:40:42 -0700

>

>Dr. Medlin-

>

>Interesting article. I found the following excerpt to be analogous to

>Chiropractic utilization/referral:

>

>Because evidence for the effectiveness of acupuncture in pain management is

>inconclusive by the standards of best evidence as adopted by the NIH

>Consensus Panel and others using a purely evidence-based medicine standard,

>the referring physician often sees it as the last resort for patients. This

>places the acupuncturist at the unenviable end of a long chain of

>evaluations, consultations, treatments, and procedures before the patient

>is finally referred for acupuncture. It also creates an adverse selection

>bias, leaving acupuncture as an option only for those patients who fail to

>respond to all other methods, and sometimes creates unrealistic

>expectations for patients.

>A more rational approach would be to recognize the potential role of

>acupuncture earlier in the treatment of potentially disabling and chronic

>illnesses. An example would be its use earlier in the treatment of low back

>pain, perhaps at the critical juncture of between 6 and 8 weeks, when acute

>back pain often starts to convert to chronic back pain. Starting earlier in

>the chain of treatment may reduce the cost of expensive evaluations, can

>lower the burden of patient suffering, and might improve back-to-work

>statistics. More extensive outcome studies are needed in evaluating the

>role of acupuncture in low back pain before it can be recommended as the

>standard of care, though certain patients may clearly benefit.

>

>Thanks for the post,

>

> Seitz, DC

>Tuality Physicians

>

>730-D SE Oak St

>

>Hillsboro, OR 97123

>

>(503)640-3724

>

> acupuncture

>

>

> Thought this may be an interesting read. Interesting how the medical

>profession views this, (similarities to chiropractic????).

>

>http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/501973?src=mp<http://www.medscape.com/viewa\

rticle/501973?src=mp>

> Dr. ph Medlin D.C.

> Spine Tree Chiropractic

> 1627 NE Alberta St. #6

> Portland, OR 97211

> ph. 503-788-6800

> c. 503-889-6204

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

>foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

>members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

>However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

>or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without

>his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

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  • 1 month later...
Guest guest

Hi,

I've also been going for acupuncture treatments for pain in my knees/shoulders. I've had three visits so far. The last time, the needles were hooked up to the electrodes, for the "electroacupuncture", as you had. For me, it is painful when she first finds the sore spots by pressing on them and then inserts the needles into the most painful parts. The muscles sort of jump and I feel the pain shoot when she first puts them in. The pain then goes away for the 30 minutes that I have them in. I have varying success so far, and a strange reaction the night of each treatment-insane itching on my legs. Very strange! I'll give it a couple more treatments to see if I start getting a more significant response for pain in my shoulders. The knee pain is starting to imrprove. Do you feel your circulation improving?

Marthatxbluebelle <txbluebelle@...> wrote:

Hello Feisty Friends,I have a couple of comments and questions. First of all I just wanted you to know I qualified for accupuncture on my knees in a clinical trial. I went for the first time Tuesday and am scheduled to go again tomorrow. The doctor said my "circulation," not sure if he means blood circulation or life flow circulation, in both legs is really bad. He immediately was able to find all these sore spots. It was amazing.I was really sore after the first session. He said I might be. But I am also having increasing problems with numbness in my right foot. I don't think that is necessarily related to the accupuncture. I do have some sciatic type pain part way down that leg, but not past the knee. It seems to be the last couple of toes on the outside. My big toe has arthritis, but is definitely NOT numb. Does

anyone have any clue which vertebrae would be involved with the outer toes? I can't really reach down there very easily. I have not had surgery except for my original one almost 40 years ago. Nor do I officially have a diagnosis of flatback.Also, they used electricity to enhance the effect of the accupuncture needles. I noticed they had to turn up the "juice" much more on the right leg than the left. Could that be a clue or important? I have very limited insurance when it comes to my back for the next 10 months. Sorry for all the misspellings. My mind isn't working well either!TxbluebelleSupport for scoliosis-surgery veterans with Harrington Rod Malalignment Syndrome. Not medical advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any advertised products.

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Guest guest

I've only been one time so far. I was warned I would be sore after

the first treatment. I wasn't very sore the day I had it, but I was

very sore yesterday. I go again tomorrow. So far no itching at all.

This is a clinical trial I think comparing accupuncture with and

without electricity. This is through one of the medical colleges here

so I know I am getting first class treatment. I was in the control

group at first, so I know I'm getting the real deal this time. It is

supposed to greatly help knee arthritis for up to 6 months.

-- In , Martha <medglen@s...>

wrote:

> Hi,

> I've also been going for acupuncture treatments for pain in my

knees/shoulders. I've had three visits so far. The last time, the

needles were hooked up to the electrodes, for

the " electroacupuncture " , as you had. For me, it is painful when she

first finds the sore spots by pressing on them and then inserts the

needles into the most painful parts. The muscles sort of jump and I

feel the pain shoot when she first puts them in. The pain then goes

away for the 30 minutes that I have them in. I have varying success

so far, and a strange reaction the night of each treatment-insane

itching on my legs. Very strange! I'll give it a couple more

treatments to see if I start getting a more significant response for

pain in my shoulders. The knee pain is starting to imrprove. Do you

feel your circulation improving?

> Martha

>

> txbluebelle <txbluebelle@y...> wrote:

> Hello Feisty Friends,

>

> I have a couple of comments and questions. First of all I just

> wanted you to know I qualified for accupuncture on my knees in a

> clinical trial. I went for the first time Tuesday and am scheduled

to

> go again tomorrow. The doctor said my " circulation, " not sure if he

> means blood circulation or life flow circulation, in both legs is

> really bad. He immediately was able to find all these sore spots.

It

> was amazing.

>

> I was really sore after the first session. He said I might be. But

I

> am also having increasing problems with numbness in my right foot.

I

> don't think that is necessarily related to the accupuncture. I do

> have some sciatic type pain part way down that leg, but not past

the

> knee. It seems to be the last couple of toes on the outside. My big

> toe has arthritis, but is definitely NOT numb. Does anyone have any

> clue which vertebrae would be involved with the outer toes? I can't

> really reach down there very easily. I have not had surgery except

> for my original one almost 40 years ago. Nor do I officially have a

> diagnosis of flatback.

>

> Also, they used electricity to enhance the effect of the

accupuncture

> needles. I noticed they had to turn up the " juice " much more on the

> right leg than the left. Could that be a clue or important?

>

> I have very limited insurance when it comes to my back for the next

> 10 months. Sorry for all the misspellings. My mind isn't working

well

> either!

>

> Txbluebelle

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with Harrington Rod

Malalignment Syndrome. Not medical advice. Group does not control ads

or endorse any advertised products.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

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  • 5 months later...

Acupuncture has been very helpful for me. It allowed me to finally

recover from a whiplash injury that I incurred when my vehicle was hit

from behind. My auto insurance paid for the treatments that finally

freed up my " frozen " upper spine. I believe that acupuncture has valid

medical applications.

Remember, don't allow yourself to get stuck on any kind of medicine.

Go for what works.

Best regards,

Celeste

B. Monier- wrote:

> And for God's sake don't ever allow yourself to have acupuncture.

>

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