Re: Feeling Hopeless and Helpless--long

[Guest guest]

Dear Sharon,

Reading your post brought tears to my eyes. I am currently experiencing the

same feelings as you. I am six almost seven years post-op from my Distal

Bypass and having a very hard time coming to terms with the fact that I eat

way too much and all the time. My pouch and stoma are completely stretched

and I never get the full and satisfying feeling. Every so often I will eat

way too much and feel terribly uncomfortable and then I will get totally

depressed because I know better. I cannot throw up anything because food

does not stop in my pouch, it goes straight on through. So, once I eat

something I have to suffer both physically and mentally for the mistake. I

feel like a complete failure even though I am still down 175 lbs. I did

gain about 30 lbs and managed to loose it with the use of Phentermine. I

just recently went off the Phentermine because my family and friends could

not stand me. I was so on edge and irritable. Now I am lethargic and

depressed. I don't know which is worse. I haven't answered very many posts

lately because I have been so totally depressed. I have not even had the

motivation lately to take my vitamins or anything else that might help me.

I guess somehow I need to find it in me to pick myself up and brush myself

off and start caring about myself. Sorry this post is such a downer. I

hope I didn't depress you even more. Take care of yourself.

Mich

Distal Gastric Bypass 1994

Start weight 425+

Current weight 250

Surgeon: S. Ross Fox, Tacoma WA

Feeling Hopeless and Helpless--long

>

>

> I went to see my RNY surgeon today to inquire about a

> re-do.

>

> I'm 2 years post-op, lost 120 at one point, but have

> gained back 40 pounds over the last year. In fact, I

> started gaining at only 9 months out. I always thought

> I could eat more than I should---starting expressing

> this to him at 6 months out, but he didn't seem

> concerned as long as I was still losing.

>

> I had an upper GI done one year ago, as I went to him

> in tears at the 1st 20 pounds I regained. The upper GI

> showed my pouch to be 2-3 oz, and there was nothing he

> could do to help me besides telling me to eat 3 meals

> a day, no snacking, and keep coming back to see him so

> that I'd have to account to someone.

>

> Needless to say, that advice did me no good, and I've

> proceeded to gain 20 more pounds. I dreaded going to

> his office most of all cuz I didn't want to see what I

> weighed. Well, I'll tell you, it was 192, up from my

> lowest in Dec 98 of 151. I cannot even believe I am

> closing in on 200 again....

>

> I have an upper GI scheduled again for this Wednesday.

> I can only pray that I have a staple line disruption,

> but I don't really think I do. I don't eat really

> large meals, but I do eat every couple of hours or

> so---3 " meals " and some snacks. He tells me that's my

> problem---stop snacking and I won't gain weight. I

> should only eat 3 meals a day. I told him that, never

> having had the surgery himself, he doesn't understand

> that I eat a small meal, my stomach empties, and I'm

> hungry again. And to not eat when I'm feeling hunger

> is deprivation, and if I could just " do " that, I never

> would have had to come see him in the 1st place. I'm

> feeling exactly like I did pre-op---no restrictions

> anymore. I'm hungry, I can eat too much, eat too

> often, and there's no end in sight.

>

> He did say that we could try Xenical. But I don't

> really eat that much high-fat food. My diet is pretty

> much Fiber One cereal with Vitamite milk for

> breakfast, fish and veggies for lunch, and then some

> meat and rice/veggies for dinner. In between I snack

> on 2-3 protein bars a day. Not the lowest in calories,

> but in and of themselves, I don't think I'm making

> lousy food choices. It just that for whatever reason,

> that is TOO much for my body. My metabolism, though in

> check with my thyroid medication, will not allow me to

> eat that much and lose or even maintain my weight.

>

> I asked all sorts of " what-ifs " like what if my staple

> line is intact, but the stoma is stretched? What if

> the staple line in intact and I gain all the way back

> up my pre-op weight (or at least up to acceptable

> weight to be considered for this surgery in the 1st

> place)? I asked him if he'd make my stomach smaller

> than 2-3 oz, as that's obviously too much for me, and

> he won't. I asked for more of a bypass than the

> proximal, and he won't. I looked him in the eye and

> said, " So if my staple line is intact, and I keep

> gaining, there is pretty much nothing you can do to

> help me? " He evaded answering my questions and just

> insisted that we not ponder these what-ifs until we

> get the results of the upper GI.

>

> The worst part of it was I left there feeling SOOO

> guilty, like this is all my doing. And I guess

> technically, it is--I'm the one shoveling all the food

> into my mouth. But for so long, I've read on these

> lists that morbid obesity isn't our fault, and that

> relief of guilt felt so good, but here it's back.

>

> I hope I don't regret posting this. I just ask that I

> don't get told to get right with food or to not seek a

> re-do unless I'm willing to commit to changing my

> habits. Please remember how you felt

> pre-op---helpless--and that's where I am again. I can

> take responsibility for when I do make worse food

> choices, but I don't like feeling guilty for eating

> when I'm hungry. I never got the never-get-hungry

> sensation from this surgery. Don't get dumping, and it

> takes more than a few bites to make me feel satisfied.

>

>

> Thank you for letting me unload to some people that

> have some clue about what I'm feeling. I tried to

> broach the subject with my dear hubby, and I'm be

> damned if he didn't suggest snacking on carrots (how

> stereotypical---and I HATE raw carrots!)....he's been

> wonderfully supportive through all this, and stayed

> with me 12 years, fat and less-fat, but naturally trim

> dude that he is, he still doesn't get this about

> me....

>

> Thanks again. I don't know what kind, if any, replies

> I may get to this, but just spilling my guts has

> helped.

>

> Fairfax Sharon

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/00 12:21:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,

kelly_ossg@... writes:

<<

Thanks again. I don't know what kind, if any, replies

I may get to this, but just spilling my guts has

helped.

Fairfax Sharon >>

How abort increasing exercise, cutting out all carbs for a while and

increasing your protein intake with whey protein drinks. I recently posted a

couple of drink recipes that I use and others in our support group in

land have used with success. The protein fills you up and is a good

substitute for some of the food you are eating while grazing. Try to keep a

food record for a few days and see what you get. I'll email you the one I

designed. We often don't realize what we are eating unless we write it down.

Also, how many carbs are I the protein bars? it could be a lot. Go to low

carbs and cut out the rice and any sugars.

Hope this helps.

BobA

Biliopancreatic Diversion (A Very Distal RNY) on 10/8/98

220 Pounds Gone Forever, But Not Forgotten!

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

I'm not sure why you are going back to the same surgeon for a redo.

All of your posts for as long as I can remember have indicated that he

has not been very supportive of you getting or benefiting of

additional help. When I was looking for my redo, I contacted other

docs in the area, & even docs out of the area (like Fobi in

California). Do you have ideas about what you want in a redo?

(i.e.smaller pouch, more bypass, a little, or a lot?) Mostly, I am

rooting for you, & its pissing me off that your doc is not

acknowledging HIS PART in this less than successful surgery. I

worry, that if he gives you another surgery, that he won't do all that

needs to be done.

Trish

>

>

>I went to see my RNY surgeon today to inquire about a

>re-do.

>

>I'm 2 years post-op, lost 120 at one point, but have

>gained back 40 pounds over the last year. In fact, I

>started gaining at only 9 months out. I always thought

>I could eat more than I should---starting expressing

>this to him at 6 months out, but he didn't seem

>concerned as long as I was still losing.

>

>I had an upper GI done one year ago, as I went to him

>in tears at the 1st 20 pounds I regained. The upper GI

>showed my pouch to be 2-3 oz, and there was nothing he

>could do to help me besides telling me to eat 3 meals

>a day, no snacking, and keep coming back to see him so

>that I'd have to account to someone.

>

>Needless to say, that advice did me no good, and I've

>proceeded to gain 20 more pounds. I dreaded going to

>his office most of all cuz I didn't want to see what I

>weighed. Well, I'll tell you, it was 192, up from my

>lowest in Dec 98 of 151. I cannot even believe I am

>closing in on 200 again....

>

>I have an upper GI scheduled again for this Wednesday.

>I can only pray that I have a staple line disruption,

>but I don't really think I do. I don't eat really

>large meals, but I do eat every couple of hours or

>so---3 " meals " and some snacks. He tells me that's my

>problem---stop snacking and I won't gain weight. I

>should only eat 3 meals a day. I told him that, never

>having had the surgery himself, he doesn't understand

>that I eat a small meal, my stomach empties, and I'm

>hungry again. And to not eat when I'm feeling hunger

>is deprivation, and if I could just " do " that, I never

>would have had to come see him in the 1st place. I'm

>feeling exactly like I did pre-op---no restrictions

>anymore. I'm hungry, I can eat too much, eat too

>often, and there's no end in sight.

>

>He did say that we could try Xenical. But I don't

>really eat that much high-fat food. My diet is pretty

>much Fiber One cereal with Vitamite milk for

>breakfast, fish and veggies for lunch, and then some

>meat and rice/veggies for dinner. In between I snack

>on 2-3 protein bars a day. Not the lowest in calories,

>but in and of themselves, I don't think I'm making

>lousy food choices. It just that for whatever reason,

>that is TOO much for my body. My metabolism, though in

>check with my thyroid medication, will not allow me to

>eat that much and lose or even maintain my weight.

>

>I asked all sorts of " what-ifs " like what if my staple

>line is intact, but the stoma is stretched? What if

>the staple line in intact and I gain all the way back

>up my pre-op weight (or at least up to acceptable

>weight to be considered for this surgery in the 1st

>place)? I asked him if he'd make my stomach smaller

>than 2-3 oz, as that's obviously too much for me, and

>he won't. I asked for more of a bypass than the

>proximal, and he won't. I looked him in the eye and

>said, " So if my staple line is intact, and I keep

>gaining, there is pretty much nothing you can do to

>help me? " He evaded answering my questions and just

>insisted that we not ponder these what-ifs until we

>get the results of the upper GI.

>

>The worst part of it was I left there feeling SOOO

>guilty, like this is all my doing. And I guess

>technically, it is--I'm the one shoveling all the food

>into my mouth. But for so long, I've read on these

>lists that morbid obesity isn't our fault, and that

>relief of guilt felt so good, but here it's back.

>

>I hope I don't regret posting this. I just ask that I

>don't get told to get right with food or to not seek a

>re-do unless I'm willing to commit to changing my

>habits. Please remember how you felt

>pre-op---helpless--and that's where I am again. I can

>take responsibility for when I do make worse food

>choices, but I don't like feeling guilty for eating

>when I'm hungry. I never got the never-get-hungry

>sensation from this surgery. Don't get dumping, and it

>takes more than a few bites to make me feel satisfied.

>

>

>Thank you for letting me unload to some people that

>have some clue about what I'm feeling. I tried to

>broach the subject with my dear hubby, and I'm be

>damned if he didn't suggest snacking on carrots (how

>stereotypical---and I HATE raw carrots!)....he's been

>wonderfully supportive through all this, and stayed

>with me 12 years, fat and less-fat, but naturally trim

>dude that he is, he still doesn't get this about

>me....

>

>Thanks again. I don't know what kind, if any, replies

>I may get to this, but just spilling my guts has

>helped.

>

>Fairfax Sharon

>

>

>__________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Mich,

Girl, you didn't depress me even more---I don't think

that's possible! But, though I hate that anyone else

has to go thru this, it helps to hear that you

understand how I'm feeling.

I was laying in bed last night thinking that my post

didn't just go out to Graduates one-year post-op or

more--it also went out to a lot of pre-ops or newly

post-ops that are lurking. I probably scared some of

them, but it's better to be informed and forewarned. I

didn't really hear stories like this when I was

pre-op, and I was on the list for at least 6 months

before my surgery. Either that or I put them out of my

mind. I mean, I knew that regain or just not reaching

goal was a possiblity---we all do. And I think it's a

constant fear for most of us. But when it happens to

you....I think even deeper down inside, you didn't

really think *you'd* be the one to fail at this. As

much as you fear it, you can't believe it when it

really happens....

I mean, for all of us, we've tried diet after diet,

and finally came to this surgery as a LAST

resort....and when even that won't work for

you...well, you can't imagine the hopelessness of

feeling like NOTHING will work for you--no matter what

you've tried, no matter that it works for so many

others---*you're* the one that can't be helped.....

Mich, what's your status---can you get a re-do? Did

you have the same surgery as Vitalady, and if so, why

aren't you experiencing the same degree of no

absorption that she has?

I know what you mean about not taking your vitamins

and other stuff that you know is right....when things

get this down, it's like " Why bother? Everything else

I do is bad, doing this good thing won't make any

difference... " It's like you're even further punishing

yourself....I wish I had a solution, but I'm down

there with ya'---helps to know we're not alone, cuz it

sure feels like it in the real world.

Thanks for responding Mich---it helps,

Sharon

--- Long wrote:

> Dear Sharon,

>

> Reading your post brought tears to my eyes. I am

> currently experiencing the

> same feelings as you. I am six almost seven years

> post-op from my Distal

> Bypass and having a very hard time coming to terms

> with the fact that I eat

> way too much and all the time. My pouch and stoma

> are completely stretched

> and I never get the full and satisfying feeling.

> Every so often I will eat

> way too much and feel terribly uncomfortable and

> then I will get totally

> depressed because I know better. I cannot throw up

> anything because food

> does not stop in my pouch, it goes straight on

> through. So, once I eat

> something I have to suffer both physically and

> mentally for the mistake. I

> feel like a complete failure even though I am still

> down 175 lbs. I did

> gain about 30 lbs and managed to loose it with the

> use of Phentermine. I

> just recently went off the Phentermine because my

> family and friends could

> not stand me. I was so on edge and irritable. Now

> I am lethargic and

> depressed. I don't know which is worse. I haven't

> answered very many posts

> lately because I have been so totally depressed. I

> have not even had the

> motivation lately to take my vitamins or anything

> else that might help me.

> I guess somehow I need to find it in me to pick

> myself up and brush myself

> off and start caring about myself. Sorry this post

> is such a downer. I

> hope I didn't depress you even more. Take care of

> yourself.

>

> Mich

> Distal Gastric Bypass 1994

> Start weight 425+

> Current weight 250

> Surgeon: S. Ross Fox, Tacoma WA

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Trish,

I've been asking myself that same question since

yesterday....I guess I

went back out of some wierd since of loyalty, like not

wanting to go

behind his back, wanting to give him the benefit of

the doubt that he

could help me....sounds sorta silly now that I think

about it. Of course

there are other more logical reasons---he's very close

to my home, on my

health plan, knows my history...I'm limited by

funds---doc has to be on

my plan, somewhat closeby.

But I am thinking of others. I had wanted to look into

Dr. Marcus, but

he's not on my health plan (United Healthcare).

I think Dr. Vanguri in Baltimore is on my plan, so I'm

thinking of

looking into him---anyone here use him and can make a

recommendation?

I guess I need a smaller pouch, perhaps transected,

more of a bypass.

I'm just very frustrated cuz in my heart, I believe

there HAS to be a solution, but I'm not getting very

far with him, so I am considering my other options.

Thanks, Trish, for pointing this out. I needed to hear

that!

Sharon

--- Trish wrote:

> Sharon,

> I'm not sure why you are going back to the same

> surgeon for a redo.

> All of your posts for as long as I can remember have

> indicated that he

> has not been very supportive of you getting or

> benefiting of

> additional help. When I was looking for my redo, I

> contacted other

> docs in the area, & even docs out of the area (like

> Fobi in

> California). Do you have ideas about what you want

> in a redo?

> (i.e.smaller pouch, more bypass, a little, or a

> lot?) Mostly, I am

> rooting for you, & its pissing me off that your doc

> is not

> acknowledging HIS PART in this less than successful

> surgery. I

> worry, that if he gives you another surgery, that he

> won't do all that

> needs to be done.

> Trish

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> I've been asking myself that same question since yesterday....I guess

> I went back out of some wierd since of loyalty, like not wanting to go

> behind his back, wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt that he

> could help me....sounds sorta silly now that I think about it. Of

> course there are other more logical reasons---he's very close to my

> home, on my health plan, knows my history...I'm limited by funds---doc

> has to be on my plan, somewhat closeby. But I am thinking of others. I

> had wanted to look into Dr. Marcus, but he's not on my health plan

> (United Healthcare).

For the record, I had the same surgeon as Sharon, and when I had a rapid

and significant weight gain, I went back to him.

I was unhappy with his lack of interest in my concerns. He offered to

start me on Xenical, but under no circumstances would he consider a

revision without there being serious staple-line disruption, etc.

I left, and never went back. I saw my primary care physician and had him

order an Upper GI for me. I got my films from the hospital from

pre-surgery and the latest UGI and made an appointment with another

surgeon.

I think for some of us, the proximial RNY is not sufficient to maintain

weight loss. I had surgery 3 years ago and maintained for 2 years - but in

the end, I need a more distal bypass. I'm responsible for my health and

wellbeing, and if one doctor not only disagrees with me, but fails to take

my concerns seriously, then I'm looking for a second opinion.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sharon and Mich,

I had put this post aside, because I wanted to give it my full attention

[something I rarely have the opportunity do as work here is close to 24/7]

and respond to Sharon in private. I then read Mich's response and it made

me realize this post should be on the list.

This might be long, so pull up a shake, carrot, bar or anything else to

snack on [or opt to delete].

When I first read this post it really hit home. I wanted to reach out and

be able to hug you. I know only too well how you are feeling.

Unfortunately I have found over the past thirteen years that so many that

have had WLS only want to know, admit, acknowledge and remember the good.

Most do not want to hear, believe or admit to the bad. Look how often

something negative comes up in the media about WLS and these lists jump all

over it. Stop and think... why would an article be published [or televised]

against the surgery if there was no validity to it? Do you think it will

sell more papers? Higher ratings? I think not.

The first and most important thing I have to say to both Sharon,

and others that might be lurking in similar pain is THIS IS NOT YOUR

FAULT!!!! Knowing that... now let's find a solution!

Maybe my history will help somewhat. I had the VBG in 87. I was told that

the surgery had a 98% [maybe 95%] success rate. I lost 50 or so pounds off

that beast of a body and the following year started to regain and gain until

all the weight was back plus more. I returned to my surgeon *once* to see

what could be wrong and he placed all the blame on me. He stated the

success rate AGAIN, and told me if I am gaining - I am cheating. He accused

me of drinking [high caloric beverages; i.e. ice-cream sodas, shakes and

liquor]. WRONG!

Naturally, I wouldn't go back after that. I felt so badly and totally

ashamed. How could only 2% fail and I AGAIN fall into the " failure " group.

I was devastated [and mortified].

I waited [and gained] for another year before *calling* my surgeon. This

time when I called he was so receptive to me and said he wanted to talk to

me and I should make an appt to see him. I did.

When I got to the office he told me that the VBG did not have very good

results [NOW he tells me this? Sheeesh!!!] and there are two new surgeries

available. He admitted he was no longer doing the VBG as the FAILURE rate

was too high. He explained there was a gastric bypass surgery [which now

took the place of the VBG] and then a second surgery called a

Vertical Gastroplasty-Roux-en-Y Distal Loop Gastric Bypass with Jejunal

Interposition (VDRG) [i know we are clueless as to what this is, but

hopefully I will have the answers tomorrow]. He went on to explain the GB

replaces the VBG and the second surgery is being done on all those that have

had and FAILED at the VBG. So I scheduled surgery.

*NOTE* I am known as the bad girl of WLS, so don't use what I am about to

say to your advantage. Listen, learn and take what might help.

Had the surgery. Upon leaving the nutritionist came to see me. She gave me

a DIET to follow and told me about exercise. I listened with one ear and

was laughing inside. DIET? What was she kidding? If I could follow that

little diet she gave me that would mean I didn't have a problem with food

and would not have needed the surgery.

So, they sent me home and told me to eat baby food. Baby food? NOT ON YOUR

LIFE! I didn't want to harm the surgery I had so I dare not eat solids but

I lived on mashed potatoes and other *good* soft junk.

When I was allowed to eat solids I did. I learned very quickly how to make

the surgery work for ME. I knew about the malabsorbtion and that fat was

either not or minutely absorbed. I was also aware that whatever was eaten

with fat would not be absorbed, because the fat was like a magnet and

grabbed everything in its reach as it plummeted down and out my new

digestive system. This being the case... I had a LOT of fat! Not only on

me, but now in me. In the morning I had a bagel with my butter and during

the day maybe some salad with my OIL, popcorn with my BUTTER, maybe a little

tuna with my MAYO, etc...

We are talking ten years back, so dates and times are somewhat hard to

recall. I can't tell you how long it took me to get to goal, but it was

definitely less than 8 months! 160+ lbs gone for good.

I NEVER did [and still don't] eat healthy, exercise or any of the other

things that good, normal, skinny people do. I never deny myself anything.

Now that I am little I just don't want what I used to or as much.

What I am trying to say is I did NOTHING to loose this weight aside from

going in and having the surgery. I am not really sure if I wanted to gain

weight if I could. I just don't think it is possible.

I know there are many on the list that have turned their lives around and I

commend them.

I guess a similar story is about a man they call " The Russian " in MA.

Apparently he has been all over TV and he waves his hands around you and you

quit smoking. Four of my friends drove up to see him. One guy threw away

his cigarettes before walking into The Russian's office. All four were seen

that day and all four received the same " hand waves " from The Russian.

Guess how many stopped? One. Guess which? Yep, the guy that threw the

cigarettes away before going into the office.

The moral [or the parallel] is that this one guy *made up his mind* he was

going to quit and with or without The Russian he would have. Maybe the long

drive and being able to say or think someone did some *magic* on him is what

he need to succeed.

The bottom line is this surgery [at least what I had] IS a ***magic pill***

and did it for me. If you are not loosing or more importantly gaining....

You need to go see a different surgeon. Obviously the current surgeon did

not originally do what YOU need done. I am the first to admit many of the

surgeons STINK! Quick to get you in and on the table and then your best

friend if you get to goal [as you become his trophy]. Should you fail...

well then... many don't want to know from you. In my quest to find answers

to my problems I have met with other surgeons. They are quick to offer a

revision. I think this is what you need. I am not sure what you had done

[heck I don't know what I had done], but find a surgeon that will do a more

radical revision.

Let's wait until tomorrow when hopefully I will have an explanation of my

surgery. I promise you... there are surgeries out there that will do it for

you! You don't have to be able to change your whole life and way of eating.

Maybe if you get the weight off you will want to and be able to so. That

would be great, but for now let's just deal with getting it off.

Know you are not alone. I PROMISE to stay with you through this until we

get the answer that is going to work for you!!!

Hang on as help is not far away.

Barbra

Feeling Hopeless and Helpless--long

>

>

> I went to see my RNY surgeon today to inquire about a

> re-do.

>

> I'm 2 years post-op, lost 120 at one point, but have

> gained back 40 pounds over the last year. In fact, I

> started gaining at only 9 months out. I always thought

> I could eat more than I should---starting expressing

> this to him at 6 months out, but he didn't seem

> concerned as long as I was still losing.

>

> I had an upper GI done one year ago, as I went to him

> in tears at the 1st 20 pounds I regained. The upper GI

> showed my pouch to be 2-3 oz, and there was nothing he

> could do to help me besides telling me to eat 3 meals

> a day, no snacking, and keep coming back to see him so

> that I'd have to account to someone.

>

> Needless to say, that advice did me no good, and I've

> proceeded to gain 20 more pounds. I dreaded going to

> his office most of all cuz I didn't want to see what I

> weighed. Well, I'll tell you, it was 192, up from my

> lowest in Dec 98 of 151. I cannot even believe I am

> closing in on 200 again....

>

> I have an upper GI scheduled again for this Wednesday.

> I can only pray that I have a staple line disruption,

> but I don't really think I do. I don't eat really

> large meals, but I do eat every couple of hours or

> so---3 " meals " and some snacks. He tells me that's my

> problem---stop snacking and I won't gain weight. I

> should only eat 3 meals a day. I told him that, never

> having had the surgery himself, he doesn't understand

> that I eat a small meal, my stomach empties, and I'm

> hungry again. And to not eat when I'm feeling hunger

> is deprivation, and if I could just " do " that, I never

> would have had to come see him in the 1st place. I'm

> feeling exactly like I did pre-op---no restrictions

> anymore. I'm hungry, I can eat too much, eat too

> often, and there's no end in sight.

>

> He did say that we could try Xenical. But I don't

> really eat that much high-fat food. My diet is pretty

> much Fiber One cereal with Vitamite milk for

> breakfast, fish and veggies for lunch, and then some

> meat and rice/veggies for dinner. In between I snack

> on 2-3 protein bars a day. Not the lowest in calories,

> but in and of themselves, I don't think I'm making

> lousy food choices. It just that for whatever reason,

> that is TOO much for my body. My metabolism, though in

> check with my thyroid medication, will not allow me to

> eat that much and lose or even maintain my weight.

>

> I asked all sorts of " what-ifs " like what if my staple

> line is intact, but the stoma is stretched? What if

> the staple line in intact and I gain all the way back

> up my pre-op weight (or at least up to acceptable

> weight to be considered for this surgery in the 1st

> place)? I asked him if he'd make my stomach smaller

> than 2-3 oz, as that's obviously too much for me, and

> he won't. I asked for more of a bypass than the

> proximal, and he won't. I looked him in the eye and

> said, " So if my staple line is intact, and I keep

> gaining, there is pretty much nothing you can do to

> help me? " He evaded answering my questions and just

> insisted that we not ponder these what-ifs until we

> get the results of the upper GI.

>

> The worst part of it was I left there feeling SOOO

> guilty, like this is all my doing. And I guess

> technically, it is--I'm the one shoveling all the food

> into my mouth. But for so long, I've read on these

> lists that morbid obesity isn't our fault, and that

> relief of guilt felt so good, but here it's back.

>

> I hope I don't regret posting this. I just ask that I

> don't get told to get right with food or to not seek a

> re-do unless I'm willing to commit to changing my

> habits. Please remember how you felt

> pre-op---helpless--and that's where I am again. I can

> take responsibility for when I do make worse food

> choices, but I don't like feeling guilty for eating

> when I'm hungry. I never got the never-get-hungry

> sensation from this surgery. Don't get dumping, and it

> takes more than a few bites to make me feel satisfied.

>

>

> Thank you for letting me unload to some people that

> have some clue about what I'm feeling. I tried to

> broach the subject with my dear hubby, and I'm be

> damned if he didn't suggest snacking on carrots (how

> stereotypical---and I HATE raw carrots!)....he's been

> wonderfully supportive through all this, and stayed

> with me 12 years, fat and less-fat, but naturally trim

> dude that he is, he still doesn't get this about

> me....

>

> Thanks again. I don't know what kind, if any, replies

> I may get to this, but just spilling my guts has

> helped.

>

> Fairfax Sharon

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

YAAAY!

>

>

>The first and most important thing I have to say to both Sharon,

>and others that might be lurking in similar pain is THIS IS NOT YOUR

>FAULT!!!! Knowing that... now let's find a solution!

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/27/00 6:21:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kelly_ossg@... writes:

<< Please stop trying to make me feel any more

guilty than I already do....

>>

That was not my intent, nor was it expected to get slammed by your response.

Think what you will, but no surgery will solve the problems with overeating.

--El

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 03/27/2000 3:21:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,

kelly_ossg@... writes:

> Sharon--

> >

> > I may now be wrapped in a different package, but I'm

> > still me. The old

> > issues with food and the ways I used to cope didn't

> > go away with the

> > anesthesia. What do I mean by my own little cliche

> > festival here? YOU have

> > to take control of your eating behaviors, you can't

> > rely on the surgeon's

> > knife.

>

> If I could have done that, I would have never had to

> have gone under the knife the first place. Neither

> would you. Neither would any of us. We did this

> because we couldn't make those changes on our own. We

> needed the physical restriction of the surgery. My

> eating is no longer restricted and I get HUNGRY, and

> by God, I eat! I make good food choices but it's still

> too much. Please stop trying to make me feel any more

> guilty than I already do....

>

> Sharon

Sharon it is OK to eat when you are physically hungry, there is no

reason to feel guilty . . . as a matter of fact you are supposed to eat! I

think we all had surgery for similar reasons . . . we needed a tool to help

us in our struggles with our weight . . . We had the surgery because it gave

us hope when we were hopeless. WE do understand how you are feeling right

now. Regardless of the surgery or surgeon . . . the most malabsorptive

surgery (aside from the old scarry ones) (BPD/DS) has a published success

rate of (only? tongue in cheek) 74% of the excess weight lost and kept off at

7 years post op, meaning that the average patient ends up 121% of ideal

weight. That sounds pretty darn good to me for an average! I even had a

woman on my other list that had no stomach at all and was still overweight!

Everyone I know that has had any WLS surgery and got it (all) off and kept it

off for over a couple of years, has had to work at it. will tell

you that her distal surgery did it all, but that lady works to keep properly

supplemented, doesn't drink and eat at the same time, avoids milk and sugar

like the plague, and attends multiple monthly support groups . . . that is

working hard in my book. That is not to say that working hard can't be

enjoyable! Look at Betty, she exercises and eats right to keep the fat

monster at bay, even fine tuning her diet to achieve her goals, and she loves

it. I do my 7 secrets support group thing with food and attend a weekly post

op support group. It s very hard work, but I love it! The people in my live

support group (proximal RNY's) learn not to non-hunger eat . . . Since we

have no malabsorption of calories we can't even 'kind of' overeat and expect

to get close to or stay at goal weights. The surgery is a tool to help us

help ourselves make real and permanent changes . . . If we do what we always

did, we'd get what we always got! The chances are good that you will never

gain back to your former weight as that is pretty rare with the RNY. 80%

lose and maintain a loss of over 50% of the excess weight as well. So

please stop feeling guilty, if guilt caused weight loss rather than weight

gain, probably none of would have needed surgery. . . You can and will find a

way to keep the weight gain from becoming malignant like it was in our pre-op

days! Meanwhile, until you get the upper GI results back from your surgeon,

RELAX, breathe . . . getting anxious and upset is just going to make you want

to eat more! We are all trying to help . . .

Vicki in CA

[Guest guest]

--- elfeline@... wrote:

>

> Sharon--

>

> I may now be wrapped in a different package, but I'm

> still me. The old

> issues with food and the ways I used to cope didn't

> go away with the

> anesthesia. What do I mean by my own little cliche

> festival here? YOU have

> to take control of your eating behaviors, you can't

> rely on the surgeon's

> knife.

If I could have done that, I would have never had to

have gone under the knife the first place. Neither

would you. Neither would any of us. We did this

because we couldn't make those changes on our own. We

needed the physical restriction of the surgery. My

eating is no longer restricted and I get HUNGRY, and

by God, I eat! I make good food choices but it's still

too much. Please stop trying to make me feel any more

guilty than I already do....

Sharon

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 03/28/2000 3:51:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,

jasmina@... writes:

>

>

> Just a note from another struggler..... finally trying to get my weight

> under control for good...... wish I had done it sooner. I've discovered

> after 2 kids, the pounds don't just drop off like they used too when I

> watched my sugar and junk... *sigh*

>

> I am still about 50 lbs or so overweight, working out, trying to eat right

> but still stumble and fall into the old pattern of junk....

>

> We're here, we're lurking, just not alot to say all the time. *grin*

>

> Cheer up and try your best, hang in there!!!

>

> Kim

Never give up! We can all do it . . . there are many ways, you just have to

keep trying . . . The only way to fail is to quit. And I mean that from my

heart, not as some worn out cliche'. I was a sales manager for a fortune

500 company. I had some of the best results and improved performances of any

manager . . . because I taught people not to give up. Those of us that had

WLS are very special because we aren't willing to give up or settle! If you

are having problems ask for help . . . something one of says might actually

click and make the difference! )

Vicki in CA

[Guest guest]

Just a note from another struggler..... finally trying to get my weight

under control for good...... wish I had done it sooner. I've discovered

after 2 kids, the pounds don't just drop off like they used too when I

watched my sugar and junk... *sigh*

I am still about 50 lbs or so overweight, working out, trying to eat right

but still stumble and fall into the old pattern of junk....

We're here, we're lurking, just not alot to say all the time. *grin*

Cheer up and try your best, hang in there!!!

Kim

VBG ~ 1985

[Guest guest]

AntCindee@... wrote:

>>>>>I am happy for those of you that seem to have

> totally changed your lifestyles, I congratulate you

all but still wonder I am the minority here or are

there others out there who are struggling like me????

Cindee,

You're NOT alone!!!! I had the therapy and sometimes

still wonder if any of that did any good! You and I

are from the same surgeon, but you're not the

minority! I still struggle with my weight and didn't

get below a size 16 here. Yes, I am jealous of the

size 3/4 or 5/6 out there, but I couldn't imagine my

body at those sizes. I wasn't able to change my

eating so drastically to incorporate all this

" fat-free " eating and " no carbs " eating! I wouldn't

be eating a thing at that point. Maybe Dr. s

forgot to do something in our brains to make us forget

about food!!!!! LOL

Beth

=====

Beth Watts

Nov. 1992 RNY Procedure

Norman s

Fort Lauderdale, FL

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/27/00 3:13:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time,

dochoa@... writes:

<< I love this line from your post, " If I could

follow that

little diet she gave me that would mean I didn't have a problem with food

and would not have needed the surgery. " >>

That is quite an interesting line. My PCP asked me yesterday how I am doing

at maintaining my weight loss. I told him that I eat by the clock and do not

rely on hunger signs. He told me that perhaps I COULD have done that withOUT

having had the RNY. I told him " WELL, I CAN DO IT NOW BECAUSE I TRULY AM NOT

HUNGRY!! " He sheepishly admitted that the surgery IS good for THAT! Think

when I have appt again in 4 weeks, I will push him a little further into

admitting that he will refer patients for RNY in the future. I feel like his

little guinea pig, but HEY, if THAT is what it is going to take for HIM to

feel comfortable recommending this procedure to other morbidly obese

patients, so be it! Everytime I see him, I tell him I would have RNY

again in a heartbeat and continue to recommend it to others I know. His

nurses are just flabbergasted (sp???) at the " new " me!! Heck...we even share

best place to shop clearance racks now!! LOL

Dawn

BTC/

Dr. Batay-Csorba

4/16/99 Open RNY

BEFORE WLS: 257 lbs. 5'5 " sz 3x/24

AFTER: 142 lbs. 5'6 " (yes, I grew up LOL) sz 8/10

[Guest guest]

, there is MUCH more to maintaining weight than just having had the RNY.

Unfortunately, you need to be disciplined and change your eating habits

regardless of whether or not you " dump. " Then there is the exercise

issue.......muscles increase metabolism. I encourage you to take an honest

look at your weight gain and self-evaluate the cause.....and I think a

therapist would be a good idea.

Dawn

BTC/

Dr. Batay-Csorba

4/16/99 Open RNY

BEFORE WLS: 257 lbs. 5'5 " sz 3x/24

AFTER: 142 lbs. 5'6 " (yes, I grew up LOL) sz 8/10

[Guest guest]

DITTO

I have lost and gained after WLS and am now losing again. I lost down to

242 lbs, had a baby, gained back to 306 lbs and got frustrated and scared.

I realized I had failed the surgery. My surgeon first decided to start

seeing me every 6 months for some accountability instead of every year. I

went back to exercise even though I didn't have the money or the time and I

still don't. I go daily for 30 minutes. I started back to basic post op

instructions, eat protein first, then veggies then starches. By the time I

get to the starches I am full and don't want them. I drink 80+ ounces of

water every day. I take my supplements. Is it hard, you bet but it is

simple. No one promised me a panacea, no one ever said it would be easy.

Since 2/17/99 I have gone from 306 lbs to 218lbs, size 24w pant to size 16

misses, 20w dress to 14 misses. I still have a ways to go and it is so

slow but it is going.

I wish it would happen for me the way it happens for people who start at

lower weights. I would love to be a size 8 (not in this lifetime, my bones

are at least a size 12 without the layers.....)

I agree with Vicki and the others, anything is better than where I was in

1994.

Please keep on going, sharing and posting. You are not alone. For today I

have found my way and hope you can find yours.

Mine started with my Surgeon, she is my biggest cheering section. Thank

goodness I have her. She got me to account for my actions..

I wish you luck and love. YOU ARE NOT ALONE

Rita

Open RNY 3/31/94 463 lbs

AS of 3/26/00 218 lbs

> AntCindee@... wrote:

> >>>>>I am happy for those of you that seem to have

> > totally changed your lifestyles, I congratulate you

> all but still wonder I am the minority here or are

> there others out there who are struggling like me????

>

> Cindee,

>

> You're NOT alone!!!! I had the therapy and sometimes

> still wonder if any of that did any good! You and I

> are from the same surgeon, but you're not the

> minority! I still struggle with my weight and didn't

> get below a size 16 here. Yes, I am jealous of the

> size 3/4 or 5/6 out there, but I couldn't imagine my

> body at those sizes. I wasn't able to change my

> eating so drastically to incorporate all this

> " fat-free " eating and " no carbs " eating! I wouldn't

> be eating a thing at that point. Maybe Dr. s

> forgot to do something in our brains to make us forget

> about food!!!!! LOL

>

> Beth

[Guest guest]

Dawn,

I don't mean to attack you, but this sounds a bit

preachy from a person that just posted that she never

feels hungry. If you never feel hunger, it's TOO easy

for you to say that someone else needs to be

disciplined and change their eating habits. And Cindee

already stated that she has done the therapist thing.

True hunger isn't satisfied on the psychiatrist's

couch. If I weren't hungry, I imagine that there would

be very little to attribute my weight loss to *except*

the RNY---certainly not my own discipline. Otherwise,

I would never have had to gone under the knife. There

are obviously (at least) 2 groups of post-ops---those

for whom the surgery pretty much is the solution, and

those (myself included) who feel as out of control as

before surgery. There are many shades of grey in

between. Let's all just try to exercise a little more

empathy, and truly remember where we were before

surgery---even though we're at least a year post-op,

some of us are still in, or have returned to the

pre-op crisis state.

Sharon

--- ROZISROZ@... wrote:

> , there is MUCH more to maintaining weight than

> just having had the RNY.

> Unfortunately, you need to be disciplined and

> change your eating habits

> regardless of whether or not you " dump. " Then there

> is the exercise

> issue.......muscles increase metabolism. I

> encourage you to take an honest

> look at your weight gain and self-evaluate the

> cause.....and I think a

> therapist would be a good idea.

> Dawn

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Sharon--

Surgery solved my obesity problem almost to the point of DEATH....because I

put so much emphasis in the doctor's knife that it almost killed me. My

initial vbg failed miserably and I had to be converted to rny to save my

life. It was not a choice that I made lightly or easily. In fact, I made it

only after almost 2 full years of constant hospitalization, dealing with

serious, life-threatening post-op complications.

And by the way, I've received many private emails from folks who know me a

lot longer than you do who didn't take my post the way you did, but were

aghast at your reply to me as well. It's evident that your doctor feels that

additional surgery is not the answer to your problems. There is no

assessment of guilt here, but wls is NOT a tool, anyone will tell you that

you CAN out-eat any wls procedure if you try hard enough. I looked at my

surgery as a tool to use in learning more appropriate eating habits, not as a

cure for obesity. If you were misled to believe otherwise, then, I'm sorry

for you....

--El

[Guest guest]

--- elfeline@... wrote:

> In a message dated 3/27/00 6:21:00 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> kelly_ossg@... writes:

>

> << Please stop trying to make me feel any more

> guilty than I already do....

> >>

>

> That was not my intent, nor was it expected to get

> slammed by your response.

> Think what you will, but no surgery will solve the

> problems with overeating.

> --El

El,

It may not be your intent, but I'm just letting you

know that that's how it comes across, and not just to

me, but to others that are struggling with weight

gain. And surgery seemed to solve your problems with

overeating to the point that you became underweight,

right? If you don't think that surgery solves the

problem of overeating, then what benefit do you think

going under the knife serves?

Sharon

__________________________________________________