New Member

[Guest guest]

Welcome, Darrin.

The symptoms associated with the syndromes known traditionally as " MS "

and " autism " are more often than not due to heavy-metal toxicity, namely

mercury, lead and arsenic. Have you had exposure to these? (Amalgam

fillings, vaccines, fish, living near a coal-fired power plant,

well-water in an agricultural area, photo chemicals?)

You should look at this website http://www.noamalgam.com which describes

the work of Cutler PhD, a recognized authority who has developed

a low-frequent-dose protocol for chelation and supplementation. Many of

the members of this group follow this protocol. Many have seen drastic

improvement in their quality of life.

The main away to diagnose this is through an inexpensive hair test

through DDI labs, available here without a prescription:

http://www.directlabs.com (There are two hair tests available--you want

the Hair Elements test)

This hair test not only measures body burden of metals, but also

evaluates whether mineral transport is deranged in your body, which is a

condition known to be exclusively caused by heavy-metal chronic

poisoning. If you post the results of your hair test, we can help you

interpret them.

If you feel comfortable describing the symptoms that lead you to seeing

medical help and testing, we would be glad to help here.

PS. Can you please share the link to the " standard Autism Spectrum test

for adults " you took?

gphx wrote:

>

> My name is Darrin. I am a 45 year old male and am currently being

> tested for a neurological disorder, ms and sarcoidosis among the

> possibilities. A friend sent me a link to the standard Autism Spectrum

> test for adults. Typical people score 16. Diagnosed autistic adults

> typically score 32 plus. I scored 40. My answers are ones I'd have

> given at any point in my lifetime so I don't think my neurological

> condition is a cause of my score, though it may be another symptom of

> a single cause. Any suggestions as to what, if anything, I should do

> from here with respect to the testing score? Should I seek further

> testing for autism and, if so, how? Thanks.

>

>

[Guest guest]

WHERE DO YOU LIVE ?

From: pavone1 <pavone1@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: New member

Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 9:58 AM

>

> Hi I am a new member. After a couple of very weird months and too many doctors

and ER visits my 12 year old was diagnosed with Lyme in February. He also shows

exposure to 4 coinfections.

> He was initially put on Bactrim and was taking that for 3 weeks when we went

to C.T. for a second opinion. The C.T. Dr. put him on zythromax, minicyclin and

mepron. By the 5th day he was in so much pain he was writhing and his shortness

of breath was worsening and he could no longer walk. Our C.T. Dr. told us to go

to the E.R. to be evaluated for ascending neuropathy. He was admitted for 3 days

and they did more tests and decided they didn't know what as wrong but it wasn't

Lyme.  After he returned home our C.T. Dr. told us to resume his meds. We

couldn't. It was too scary and the Dr.s at the hospital were not fans of our

C.T. Dr. besides we weren't able to see our C.T.  Dr. again for months. We

decided to pursue another Dr. this one will see us on a more regular basis and

is starting my son off more slowly. After 10 days we are back up to 2 zythro a

day but my son is still suffering terribly. I am desperate to know when can we

excpect to see him

turn a

>  corner and to start improving? Any words of hope and encouragement or advice

would be most appreciated!   

>

> Thank you!!

>

Thank you for all your responses. I'm sorry that you are all watching your

children suffer too. It is a comfort to know that there are other moms going

through some of the same stuff and hearing that there are those of you who have

children well on their way to recovery is most encouraging.

I believe we are with the right Dr. now and my C.T. Dr. is willing to work with

us and our new D.R. so it seems like the right choice for now. There is just so

much uncertainty with this disease and  the controversy surrounding it has been

a battle as I'm sure many of you can relate to. While in the hospital the Dr.s

were so opposed to our choice to treat that I was growing worried. Now back at

home and continuing with treatment in spite of them it is scary, I know that

this is the right decision but walking it out is tough.

I understand this could be a long ride but I am anxious to see some lifting of

the painful symptoms. It breaks my heart to see his brothers and sister out

riding bikes and playing while he has literally been on the couch for over a

month (except for the hospital or dr.s).

We see the Dr. again on Monday and I am anxious to talk to him and a little

nervous that he will increase his abx load.

Thank you for mentioning the neurotonin and cymbalta i will mention it to our

Dr..

Oh we live on Long Island. Have any of you used pesticides on your yard to ward

of ticks? I am very concerned about our yard and  wondering how to keep my kids

safe .

------------------------------------

Lyme Disease News continually updated from thousands of sources around the

net: http://www.topix.net/health/lyme-disease

MedWorm: The latest items on: Lyme Disease

http://tinyurl.com/23dgy8

[Guest guest]

>

> My name is Darrin. I am a 45 year old male and am currently being tested for a

neurological disorder, ms and sarcoidosis among the possibilities.... Any

suggestions as to what, if anything, I should do from here with respect to the

testing score? Should I seek further testing for autism and, if so, how? Thanks.

>

Darrin, Make sure you check out Andy Cutler's protocol and resources.

I bet you'll be interested in these podcasts and resources.

Dr. Huggins, dentist

http://www.oneradionetwork.com/mercury_fiillings_-_root_canals_-_ancestral_diet_\

-_dr._hal_huggins_03.02.09/

Andy Cutler, PhD, author, expert on chelation

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/thecandystore

Dr. Amy Holmes, mother of autistic child

http://www.flcv.com/autismc.html

Bernard Windham, President of DAMS

http://www.cfspages.com/bernie.html

Dr. Mark Hyman, formerly had high mercury

http://www.ultrawellnesscenter.com/downloads/Impact-of-Hg.pdf

[Guest guest]

We live on Long Island, you too?

From: pavone1 <pavone1 (DOT) com>

Subject: [ ] Re: New member

Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 9:58 AM

>

> Hi I am a new member. After a couple of very weird months and too many doctors

and ER visits my 12 year old was diagnosed with Lyme in February. He also shows

exposure to 4 coinfections.

> He was initially put on Bactrim and was taking that for 3 weeks when we went

to C.T. for a second opinion. The C.T. Dr. put him on zythromax, minicyclin and

mepron. By the 5th day he was in so much pain he was writhing and his shortness

of breath was worsening and he could no longer walk. Our C.T. Dr. told us to go

to the E.R. to be evaluated for ascending neuropathy. He was admitted for 3 days

and they did more tests and decided they didn't know what as wrong but it wasn't

Lyme.  After he returned home our C.T. Dr. told us to resume his meds. We

couldn't. It was too scary and the Dr.s at the hospital were not fans of our

C.T. Dr. besides we weren't able to see our C.T.  Dr. again for months. We

decided to pursue another Dr. this one will see us on a more regular basis and

is starting my son off more slowly. After 10 days we are back up to 2 zythro a

day but my son is still suffering terribly. I am desperate to know when can we

excpect to see him

turn a

>  corner and to start improving? Any words of hope and encouragement or advice

would be most appreciated!   

>

> Thank you!!

>

Thank you for all your responses. I'm sorry that you are all watching your

children suffer too. It is a comfort to know that there are other moms going

through some of the same stuff and hearing that there are those of you who have

children well on their way to recovery is most encouraging.

I believe we are with the right Dr. now and my C.T. Dr. is willing to work with

us and our new D.R. so it seems like the right choice for now. There is just so

much uncertainty with this disease and  the controversy surrounding it has been

a battle as I'm sure many of you can relate to. While in the hospital the Dr.s

were so opposed to our choice to treat that I was growing worried. Now back at

home and continuing with treatment in spite of them it is scary, I know that

this is the right decision but walking it out is tough.

I understand this could be a long ride but I am anxious to see some lifting of

the painful symptoms. It breaks my heart to see his brothers and sister out

riding bikes and playing while he has literally been on the couch for over a

month (except for the hospital or dr.s).

We see the Dr. again on Monday and I am anxious to talk to him and a little

nervous that he will increase his abx load.

Thank you for mentioning the neurotonin and cymbalta i will mention it to our

Dr..

Oh we live on Long Island. Have any of you used pesticides on your yard to ward

of ticks? I am very concerned about our yard and  wondering how to keep my kids

safe .

------------ --------- --------- ------

Lyme Disease News continually updated from thousands of sources around the

net: http://www.topix. net/health/ lyme-disease

MedWorm: The latest items on: Lyme Disease

http://tinyurl. com/23dgy8

[Guest guest]

Yep, where about ? I'm In Middle island, Suffolk county.

From: pavone1 <pavone1 (DOT) com>

Subject: [ ] Re: New member

Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 9:58 AM

>

> Hi I am a new member. After a couple of very weird months and too many doctors

and ER visits my 12 year old was diagnosed with Lyme in February. He also shows

exposure to 4 coinfections.

> He was initially put on Bactrim and was taking that for 3 weeks when we went

to C.T. for a second opinion. The C.T. Dr. put him on zythromax, minicyclin and

mepron. By the 5th day he was in so much pain he was writhing and his shortness

of breath was worsening and he could no longer walk. Our C.T. Dr. told us to go

to the E.R. to be evaluated for ascending neuropathy. He was admitted for 3 days

and they did more tests and decided they didn't know what as wrong but it wasn't

Lyme.  After he returned home our C.T. Dr. told us to resume his meds. We

couldn't. It was too scary and the Dr.s at the hospital were not fans of our

C.T. Dr. besides we weren't able to see our C.T.  Dr. again for months. We

decided to pursue another Dr. this one will see us on a more regular basis and

is starting my son off more slowly. After 10 days we are back up to 2 zythro a

day but my son is still suffering terribly. I am desperate to know when can we

excpect to see him

turn a

>  corner and to start improving? Any words of hope and encouragement or advice

would be most appreciated!   

>

> Thank you!!

>

Thank you for all your responses. I'm sorry that you are all watching your

children suffer too. It is a comfort to know that there are other moms going

through some of the same stuff and hearing that there are those of you who have

children well on their way to recovery is most encouraging.

I believe we are with the right Dr. now and my C.T. Dr. is willing to work with

us and our new D.R. so it seems like the right choice for now. There is just so

much uncertainty with this disease and  the controversy surrounding it has been

a battle as I'm sure many of you can relate to. While in the hospital the Dr.s

were so opposed to our choice to treat that I was growing worried. Now back at

home and continuing with treatment in spite of them it is scary, I know that

this is the right decision but walking it out is tough.

I understand this could be a long ride but I am anxious to see some lifting of

the painful symptoms. It breaks my heart to see his brothers and sister out

riding bikes and playing while he has literally been on the couch for over a

month (except for the hospital or dr.s).

We see the Dr. again on Monday and I am anxious to talk to him and a little

nervous that he will increase his abx load.

Thank you for mentioning the neurotonin and cymbalta i will mention it to our

Dr..

Oh we live on Long Island. Have any of you used pesticides on your yard to ward

of ticks? I am very concerned about our yard and  wondering how to keep my kids

safe .

------------ --------- --------- ------

Lyme Disease News continually updated from thousands of sources around the

net: http://www.topix. net/health/ lyme-disease

MedWorm: The latest items on: Lyme Disease

http://tinyurl. com/23dgy8

[Guest guest]

Hi Pati I think we talked before if not here one of the other forums let me know

what your going to try and we can help.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Pati <patianderson3@...>

> Subject: New Member

>

> Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 12:14 PM

> Hi, just wanted to introduce myself.

> My name is Pati and I joined this group because my husband

> is having problems with low testosterone and my son has

> Kleinfelter's Syndrome. I'm eager to learn as it looks like

> they may end up doing some self medicating (of estrogen

> blockers) seems the drs. we are using don't have a clue.

>

> Thanks, Pati

>

>

>

>

>      

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Phil, Ok, here goes. My son's neurologist rx's him testosterone

injections. I believe that since it's not really his field he will be likely to

do whatever blood tests that I want done. I believe that he has only asked for

total testosterone, so I am going to ask him to do free testosterone and

estrogen. I know that there are different estrogens for testing - what should I

specifically ask him to test? Anything else that I should be asking him to do?

Thanks, Pati (we'll deal with husband next time!)

>

> > From: Pati <patianderson3@...>

> > Subject: New Member

> >

> > Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 12:14 PM

> > Hi, just wanted to introduce myself.

> > My name is Pati and I joined this group because my husband

> > is having problems with low testosterone and my son has

> > Kleinfelter's Syndrome. I'm eager to learn as it looks like

> > they may end up doing some self medicating (of estrogen

> > blockers) seems the drs. we are using don't have a clue.

> >

> > Thanks, Pati

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >      

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Go to allthingsmale.com and look for TRT recipe for success.

Show it to your doc.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

New Member

> >

> > Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 12:14 PM

> > Hi, just wanted to introduce myself.

> > My name is Pati and I joined this group because my husband

> > is having problems with low testosterone and my son has

> > Kleinfelter's Syndrome. I'm eager to learn as it looks like

> > they may end up doing some self medicating (of estrogen

> > blockers) seems the drs. we are using don't have a clue.

> >

> > Thanks, Pati

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >      

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm in town. Are you using a local Dr.?

>

> >

>

> > Hi I am a new member. After a couple of very weird months and too many

doctors and ER visits my 12 year old was diagnosed with Lyme in February. He

also shows exposure to 4 coinfections.

>

> > He was initially put on Bactrim and was taking that for 3 weeks when we went

to C.T. for a second opinion. The C.T. Dr. put him on zythromax, minicyclin and

mepron. By the 5th day he was in so much pain he was writhing and his shortness

of breath was worsening and he could no longer walk. Our C.T. Dr. told us to go

to the E.R. to be evaluated for ascending neuropathy. He was admitted for 3 days

and they did more tests and decided they didn't know what as wrong but it wasn't

Lyme.  After he returned home our C.T. Dr. told us to resume his meds. We

couldn't. It was too scary and the Dr.s at the hospital were not fans of our

C.T. Dr. besides we weren't able to see our C.T.  Dr. again for months. We

decided to pursue another Dr. this one will see us on a more regular basis and

is starting my son off more slowly. After 10 days we are back up to 2 zythro a

day but my son is still suffering terribly. I am desperate to know when can we

excpect to see him

>

> turn a

>

> >  corner and to start improving? Any words of hope and encouragement or

advice would be most appreciated!   

>

> >

>

> > Thank you!!

>

> >

>

>

>

> Thank you for all your responses. I'm sorry that you are all watching your

children suffer too. It is a comfort to know that there are other moms going

through some of the same stuff and hearing that there are those of you who have

children well on their way to recovery is most encouraging.

>

> I believe we are with the right Dr. now and my C.T. Dr. is willing to work

with us and our new D.R. so it seems like the right choice for now. There is

just so much uncertainty with this disease and  the controversy surrounding it

has been a battle as I'm sure many of you can relate to. While in the hospital

the Dr.s were so opposed to our choice to treat that I was growing worried. Now

back at home and continuing with treatment in spite of them it is scary, I know

that this is the right decision but walking it out is tough.

>

> I understand this could be a long ride but I am anxious to see some lifting of

the painful symptoms. It breaks my heart to see his brothers and sister out

riding bikes and playing while he has literally been on the couch for over a

month (except for the hospital or dr.s).

>

> We see the Dr. again on Monday and I am anxious to talk to him and a little

nervous that he will increase his abx load.

>

>

>

> Thank you for mentioning the neurotonin and cymbalta i will mention it to our

Dr..

>

>

>

> Oh we live on Long Island. Have any of you used pesticides on your yard to

ward of ticks? I am very concerned about our yard and  wondering how to keep my

kids safe .

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

>

>

> Lyme Disease News continually updated from thousands of sources around the

>

> net: http://www.topix. net/health/ lyme-disease

>

>

>

> MedWorm: The latest items on: Lyme Disease

>

> http://tinyurl. com/23dgy8

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would guess you are aware that there are several levels of Klinefelters.

I am K-Mosaic. I need to increase testosterone & lower my high E2.

Boobs are caused by high estradiol, E2. I would not suggest breast removal for

a teen. That is a decision for him to make later in life.

Good luck

> >

> > > From: Pati <patianderson3@>

> > > Subject: New Member

> > >

> > > Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 12:14 PM

> > > Hi, just wanted to introduce myself.

> > > My name is Pati and I joined this group because my husband

> > > is having problems with low testosterone and my son has

> > > Kleinfelter's Syndrome. I'm eager to learn as it looks like

> > > they may end up doing some self medicating (of estrogen

> > > blockers) seems the drs. we are using don't have a clue.

> > >

> > > Thanks, Pati

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >      

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yes there are a mess of labs he needs done before adding Testosterone meds if he

is now on them there are still a lot that needs to be done.

I have a list that has the test that Dr. ask's for and some adding to this

list one needs Total T4 and Total T3 for Thyroid.

Here is copy of them print this have his Dr. look them over in this is a link to

Dr. 's site go there and read about this labs he dose and why it in TRT: A

Recipe for Success and read His HCG Update.

===================================================

If you have lost your libido, have ED, feel fatugued, have brain fog, have

feelings of Deprossion just don't feel your self then do get these labs.

You need a full panel of labs done and then see what you need to treat. Also

read this site.

This is taken from Dr. 's site at www.allthingsmale.com in TRT: A Recipe for

Success.

• Total Testosterone

• Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA " Free and Loosely Bound " )

• Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)

• DHT

• Estradiol (specify the Extraction Method, or " sensitive " assay for

males)

• LH

• FSH

• Prolactin

• Cortisol first do this test in blood a morning fasting test if your low

below 15 then do a saliva test.

• Thyroid Panel doing the following labs.

* TSH But this lab is only for diagnosis of hypopituitary, NOT to diagnose or

dose your hypo by.

* Free T4 and Free T3 (note the word “freeâ€)

* Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)

* Ferritin (and do stress FERRITIN, not just RBC)

* Adrenals Cortisol levels (but we strongly recommend saliva tests, not the one

time blood test your doctor will do. See below, because you don’t need a

prescription)

* B-12, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA

* Reverse T3

• CBC

• Comprehensive Metabolic Panel

• Lipid Profile

• PSA (if over 40)

If your Dr. will not run these tests the find one that will most of the better

Dr.'s for this are DO Dr.'s

American Academy of Osteopathy

Find an osteopath in US and some other countries

http://www.academyofosteopathy.org/findphys.cfm

Find an osteopath

http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?Pa ... ndado_main

General Osteopathic Council

Find an osteopath in almost any country

http://www.osteopathy.org.uk/find_osteo/

Healthfinder

Find an osteopath near you in the US. Also links to site to explain what an

osteopath is.

http://www.healthfinder.gov/Scripts/Sea ... topic=3786

*I recommend avoiding osteopathic endos. They seem to be the same as regular

endos.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: PatiA <patianderson3@...>

> Subject: Re: New Member

>

> Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 4:46 PM

> Thanks Phil, Ok, here goes. My son's

> neurologist rx's him testosterone injections. I believe that

> since it's not really his field he will be likely to do

> whatever blood tests that I want done. I believe that he has

> only asked for total testosterone, so I am going to ask him

> to do free testosterone and estrogen. I know that there are

> different estrogens for testing - what should I specifically

> ask him to test? Anything else that I should be asking him

> to do?  Thanks, Pati (we'll deal with husband next

> time!)

>

>

> >

> > > From: Pati <patianderson3@...>

> > > Subject: New Member

> > >

> > > Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 12:14 PM

> > > Hi, just wanted to introduce myself.

> > > My name is Pati and I joined this group because

> my husband

> > > is having problems with low testosterone and my

> son has

> > > Kleinfelter's Syndrome. I'm eager to learn as it

> looks like

> > > they may end up doing some self medicating (of

> estrogen

> > > blockers) seems the drs. we are using don't have

> a clue.

> > >

> > > Thanks, Pati

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >      

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Before his diagnosis - he had one enlarged boob at that time his family doctor

accused him of smoking pot as that could cause the enlargement. At this time

they don't seem too bad (he's 24) and not ashamed to take off his shirt. A

HORRIBLE,HORRIBLE endo made the diagnosis when he was 19 after our gp referred

him. Our first appt. went like this - doctor walked into the room, Did NOT say,

" hi, I'm Dr.____ " but instead said, " I think you have Kleinfelters, you are

sterile, will probably end up in prison and you have small testicles "

I tried to research this stuff and found that there were different degrees -

like XXY, XXXY and so on. When we went back and I asked dr. how many x's he

had.....he said that it didn't matter. I was too new to arrogant doctors to know

that we should have just walked out - and punched him on the way, so I never got

any blood test results on my son (or me for thyroid problems for that matter)

Dr. Bozo rx's 3 cc's testosterone injection every 3 weeks...the kid was in rage

the first week, then mellow the next 2. When we complained, dr. just laughed and

said - what do you expect, he is in full blown adolescene at 19 - that's when we

stopped visiting him. My son was off testosterone for a few years after that.

Now trying to get some normalcy in his life.

Sorry for rambling....guess I just needed to get that out. I am going to read

the files posted on the group now to get some more answers. Thanks for posting

what blood work I should be asking for. Pati

> > >

> > > > From: Pati <patianderson3@>

> > > > Subject: New Member

> > > >

> > > > Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 12:14 PM

> > > > Hi, just wanted to introduce myself.

> > > > My name is Pati and I joined this group because my husband

> > > > is having problems with low testosterone and my son has

> > > > Kleinfelter's Syndrome. I'm eager to learn as it looks like

> > > > they may end up doing some self medicating (of estrogen

> > > > blockers) seems the drs. we are using don't have a clue.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks, Pati

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >      

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Sorry you had to put up with that Endo I do feel most of them are in a world of

the own. It's like nice house no one home. I am betting he was the first

Kleinfelters patient he ever seen. GP Dr.'s feel Endo's know all about hormones

but they don't all they are good for is diabetes. I have lost count as to how

many posts I have read about the crap men were told by them. Even Thyroid they

know nothing about it I see it everyday how can a Dr. just test TSH and dose

some ones meds. TSH is the message sent to the Thyroid to tell it to make

Thyroid Hormones so as one is on meds TSH should go lower. Yet Endo's will tell

people they are on to much meds there TSH is to low.

The same thing happens to men on Testosterone there LH and FSH levels go down

because of the Testosterone meds. Yet I have talked to men that went on TRT and

not doing to good was sent to see an Endo this Dr. did labs on the guy and told

him his LH and FSH levels are very low his Testis don't work and he is Primary.

The GP's need to learn Endo's are not good Dr.'s for low Hormones and stop

sending men to see them. Every Endo I was sent to see took me off TRT saying

they needed a Base Line set of labs I know today this is not possable once a man

is on TRT you can't take him off meds and get good labs his brain is shut down

not sending LH and FSH to the Testis because of being on TRT and stopping TRT

only makes them dam sick because the brain is shut down and will not start back

up sending LH and FSH.

I had this happen to me 7 times each time I was so dam sick I could not go to

work and it took longer and longer to get back going back on TRT each time I was

taken off it.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: PatiA <patianderson3@...>

> Subject: Re: New Member

>

> Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 10:25 AM

>

>

>

> Before his diagnosis - he had one enlarged boob at that

> time his family doctor accused him of smoking pot as that

> could cause the enlargement. At this time they don't seem

> too bad (he's 24) and not ashamed to take off his shirt. A

> HORRIBLE,HORRIBLE endo made the diagnosis when he was 19

> after our gp referred him. Our first appt. went like this -

> doctor walked into the room, Did NOT say, " hi, I'm Dr.____ "

> but instead said, " I think you have Kleinfelters, you are

> sterile, will probably end up in prison and you have small

> testicles "

> I tried to research this stuff and found that there were

> different degrees - like XXY, XXXY and so on. When we went

> back and I asked dr. how many x's he had.....he said that it

> didn't matter. I was too new to arrogant doctors to know

> that we should have just walked out - and punched him on the

> way, so I never got any blood test results on my son (or me

> for thyroid problems for that matter) Dr. Bozo rx's 3 cc's

> testosterone injection every 3 weeks...the kid was in rage

> the first week, then mellow the next 2. When we complained,

> dr. just laughed and said - what do you expect, he is in

> full blown adolescene at 19 - that's when we stopped

> visiting him. My son was off testosterone for a few years

> after that. Now trying to get some normalcy in his life.

> Sorry for rambling....guess I just needed to get that out.

> I am going to read the files posted on the group now to get

> some more answers. Thanks for posting what blood work I

> should be asking for. Pati

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > From: Pati

> <patianderson3@>

> > > > > Subject: New Member

> > > > >

> > > > > Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 12:14

> PM

> > > > > Hi, just wanted to introduce myself.

> > > > > My name is Pati and I joined this group

> because my husband

> > > > > is having problems with low

> testosterone and my son has

> > > > > Kleinfelter's Syndrome. I'm eager to

> learn as it looks like

> > > > > they may end up doing some self

> medicating (of estrogen

> > > > > blockers) seems the drs. we are using

> don't have a clue.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks, Pati

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >      

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been removed]

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Pati,

I want to welcome you to this forum as has alot of veterans as well as the good

Dr john comes and graces us with his presents as well. I'm sorry that your

family is going through this but at least you are starting by coming to the

right place. Pati, If you are interested feel free to contact me

hardasnails1973@... as we specialize in these cases. I am sure you will

find a wealth of information and knowledge here as well. Usiing estrogen

blockers is not proper form of long term TRT and can end up causing neurological

issues, muscular and skeletal issues from potential high dosage estrogen

blockers in male.

>

> Hi, just wanted to introduce myself. My name is Pati and I joined this group

because my husband is having problems with low testosterone and my son has

Kleinfelter's Syndrome. I'm eager to learn as it looks like they may end up

doing some self medicating (of estrogen blockers) seems the drs. we are using

don't have a clue.

>

> Thanks, Pati

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You need to have proper test levels check 2 weeks after being on the gel because

alot of men do not absorb it properly. The gel should be applied once or twice

daily. Twice daily if SHBG is low because body burns testosterone up rather

quickly then with higher SHBG. One also needs to check e2, thyroid parameters

and adrenals. Your dr should not put you on androgel then not recheck for 3

months that is like for some guys having their balls chopped because they even

loose there own natural production end up lower then when they first started.

GEtting your proper levels in checked will help resolve your depression in

majority of cases that we have personal dealt with. We are located in

pennslyvania specializing in proper HRT protocol. Pm me for additional

information

>

> I am a new member to your group i am low on tersterone and on androgel

>

> about a pump a day i have been reading the posts and want to try DIM but i

need to know more about it and how much i should take and where i can get it as

long as it helps i am also on cymbalta 49 yrs old and and some days still feel

tired no energy i am also on vitamins 50 plus mega health and on blood pressure

medicine loetril

>

[Guest guest]

I do prefer twice daily dosing with TD's, for many reasons I am sure you

have already mentioned.

However, I don't think it makes much difference with respect to SHBG, as the

gel continues to distribute from the skin.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

[Guest guest]

Here is my take on this have you done labs on this very low dose of gel. One

pump is 1.25 grams to me a Dr. that puts a man on this low dose is not up on

treating low Testosterone. As you can see if you read the insert that comes in

the box. The starting dose is 5 grams and most men on this dose do well but

there are some that don't so you need to do labs after 2 weeks on this to see if

it's working. If you did labs after starting on this can you post them with the

units and ranges if you don't have a copy get one. And always get a copy of

your labs.

Here is what you need to try and do to feel better get your total T levels up

into the upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man. And keep your Estradiol

down to about 20 pg/ml. Doing this most me feel dam good.

I am sorry to say this but I don't feel your Dr. is anygood at treating this

problem.

http://www.androgel.com/pdf/500122-500127_Rev_1E_Sep_2009_FPI_with_MedGuide.pdf

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: andyhp4560 <andyhp4560@...>

> Subject: New Member

>

> Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 1:44 PM

> I am a new member to your group i am

> low on tersterone and on androgel

>

> about a pump a day i have been reading the posts and want

> to try DIM but i need to know more about it and how much i

> should take and where i can get it as long as it helps i am

> also on cymbalta 49 yrs old and and some days still feel

> tired no energy i am also on vitamins 50 plus mega health

> and on blood pressure medicine loetril

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Twice daily dosing of TD's is news to me. Are you suggesting morning and

night, splitting the dose equally?

Thanks,

.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Crisler, DO

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:11 PM

Subject: Re: New Member

I do prefer twice daily dosing with TD's, for many reasons I am sure you

have already mentioned.

However, I don't think it makes much difference with respect to SHBG, as the

gel continues to distribute from the skin.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

[Guest guest]

Wouldn't it give more easier way of measuring it from blood serum if applied and

blood drawn 8 -12 hours application so the trough would actually be higher then

if it was applied once daily. Is this correct thinking Dr

>

> Twice daily dosing of TD's is news to me. Are you suggesting morning and

> night, splitting the dose equally?

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

> .

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of Crisler, DO

> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:11 PM

>

> Subject: Re: New Member

>

>

>

>

>

> I do prefer twice daily dosing with TD's, for many reasons I am sure you

> have already mentioned.

>

> However, I don't think it makes much difference with respect to SHBG, as the

> gel continues to distribute from the skin.

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes he is some men do very good on this but if you do this start at about 6am

and do it at 6pm or any later it can keep you up from sleeping.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Wharff <robertwharff@...>

> Subject: RE: Re: New Member

>

> Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 3:17 PM

> Twice daily dosing of TD's is news to

> me.  Are you suggesting morning and

> night, splitting the dose equally?

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

> .

>

>   _____ 

>

> From:

> [mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of Crisler, DO

> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:11 PM

>

> Subject: Re: New Member

>

>

>

>  

>

> I do prefer twice daily dosing with TD's, for many reasons

> I am sure you

> have already mentioned.

>

> However, I don't think it makes much difference with

> respect to SHBG, as the

> gel continues to distribute from the skin.

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only

> for the personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and

> is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not

> the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have

> received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination,

> distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have

> received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and

> delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have my guys draw about 2 hours status post application. This times the

first peak of the biphasic distribution, and lets me know how much I can

rely on getting in. Clinical correlation is more relevant that way.

If using twice per day dosing one must remember we are only measuring half

the daily dose on serums.

Two applications per day not only provides more as the day goes on, it also

provides more variability, Variability is part and parcel of youth.

Of course, collecting a 24 hour urine tells me ALL that got in. The gold

standard.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of hardasnails1973

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:35 PM

Subject: Re: New Member

Wouldn't it give more easier way of measuring it from blood serum if applied

and blood drawn 8 -12 hours application so the trough would actually be

higher then if it was applied once daily. Is this correct thinking Dr

>

> Twice daily dosing of TD's is news to me. Are you suggesting morning and

> night, splitting the dose equally?

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

> .

>

> _____

>

> From:

<mailto: %40>

[mailto:

<mailto: %40> ]

> On Behalf Of Crisler, DO

> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:11 PM

> <mailto: %40>

> Subject: Re: New Member

>

>

>

>

>

> I do prefer twice daily dosing with TD's, for many reasons I am sure you

> have already mentioned.

>

> However, I don't think it makes much difference with respect to SHBG, as

the

> gel continues to distribute from the skin.

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only for the

personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Phil, especially the part about not sleeping. I already have enough

trouble with that.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of philip georgian

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:18 PM

Subject: RE: Re: New Member

Yes he is some men do very good on this but if you do this start at about

6am and do it at 6pm or any later it can keep you up from sleeping.

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Wharff <robertwharff@

<mailto:robertwharff%40robertwharff.com> robertwharff.com>

> Subject: RE: Re: New Member

> @ <mailto: %40>

> Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 3:17 PM

> Twice daily dosing of TD's is news to

> me. Are you suggesting morning and

> night, splitting the dose equally?

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

> .

>

> _____

>

> From: @ <mailto: %40>

> [mailto: @ <mailto: %40>

]

> On Behalf Of Crisler, DO

> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:11 PM

> @ <mailto: %40>

> Subject: Re: New Member

>

>

>

>

>

> I do prefer twice daily dosing with TD's, for many reasons

> I am sure you

> have already mentioned.

>

> However, I don't think it makes much difference with

> respect to SHBG, as the

> gel continues to distribute from the skin.

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only

> for the personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and

> is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not

> the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have

> received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination,

> distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have

> received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and

> delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dr. . I may well make it to MI yet. Your approach to TRT has me

thinking about the whole process differently.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Crisler, DO

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:49 PM

Subject: RE: Re: New Member

I have my guys draw about 2 hours status post application. This times the

first peak of the biphasic distribution, and lets me know how much I can

rely on getting in. Clinical correlation is more relevant that way.

If using twice per day dosing one must remember we are only measuring half

the daily dose on serums.

Two applications per day not only provides more as the day goes on, it also

provides more variability, Variability is part and parcel of youth.

Of course, collecting a 24 hour urine tells me ALL that got in. The gold

standard.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

From: @ <mailto: %40>

[mailto: @

<mailto: %40> ]

On Behalf Of hardasnails1973

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:35 PM

@ <mailto: %40>

Subject: Re: New Member

Wouldn't it give more easier way of measuring it from blood serum if applied

and blood drawn 8 -12 hours application so the trough would actually be

higher then if it was applied once daily. Is this correct thinking Dr

>

> Twice daily dosing of TD's is news to me. Are you suggesting morning and

> night, splitting the dose equally?

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

> .

>

> _____

>

> From: @ <mailto: %40>

<mailto: %40>

[mailto: @ <mailto: %40>

<mailto: %40> ]

> On Behalf Of Crisler, DO

> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:11 PM

> @ <mailto: %40>

<mailto: %40>

> Subject: Re: New Member

>

>

>

>

>

> I do prefer twice daily dosing with TD's, for many reasons I am sure you

> have already mentioned.

>

> However, I don't think it makes much difference with respect to SHBG, as

the

> gel continues to distribute from the skin.

>

> Be well!

>

> Regards,

>

> Crisler, DO

>

> Anti-Aging Medicine

>

> The information contained in this message is intended only for the

personal

> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

> state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

> document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

> copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

> communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

> original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. or anyone else,

When you say variability is a part of youth do you mean the Total T levels

rising and lowering through out the day? If this is the case then it seems that

it can only be achieved through gels or creams. I'm currently on weekly shots

of 100mgs T ethanate because Androgel or testim never raised my levels. I never

really got an explanation of why from my urologist.

> >

> > Twice daily dosing of TD's is news to me. Are you suggesting morning and

> > night, splitting the dose equally?

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> >

> > .

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> <mailto: %40>

> [mailto:

> <mailto: %40> ]

> > On Behalf Of Crisler, DO

> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:11 PM

> > <mailto: %40>

>

> > Subject: Re: New Member

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I do prefer twice daily dosing with TD's, for many reasons I am sure you

> > have already mentioned.

> >

> > However, I don't think it makes much difference with respect to SHBG, as

> the

> > gel continues to distribute from the skin.

> >

> > Be well!

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Crisler, DO

> >

> > Anti-Aging Medicine

> >

> > The information contained in this message is intended only for the

> personal

> > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

> > state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

> > recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

> > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

> > document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

> > copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

> > communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

> > original message. We would certainly do the same for you.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You either did not take enough Androgel/Testim, or the labs were done

incorrectly.

Be well!

Regards,

Crisler, DO

Anti-Aging Medicine

The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal

and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by

state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended

recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the

intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this

document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or

copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the

original message. We would certainly do the same for you.