Re: Principle 4 - Challenge the Food Police

September 4, 2008

Arnie wrote: " I realized from spending time with them that I still

have an irrational fear of being hungry later in the day instead of

just enjoying the moment. "

I'm with you Arnie. I wasn't sure what I was going to write about

this principle until I saw this line in your post. My biggest

challenge is dealing with my own internal food police. How many

times have I worried about eating or planning my next meal instead

of enjoying the present moment? I can't even get a clear answer to

this question because food preoccupation has been such a dominant

factor in the past decade of my life.

I still find myself eating on the " clock " - feeling like I " should "

feel hungry because it's 10 a.m., I did my morning walk, and I

haven't eaten yet, its noon so I should eat something, I should make

sure I get my vegetables today...the list of shoulds go own. My

internal food police exist because I lack of certain trust with my

body. The external food police in the form of our family, friends,

and media probably exist in part because there is a larger issue

with our society not trusting the body.

I was planning for my lunch a few weeks ago and decided to take a

whole grain oatmeal cookie, a handful of cashews and almonds, a

handful of dried cranberries, and a banana. Usually, I would have

planned more...a lean cuisine meal or leftovers from the previous

night or go out for lunch...a more complicated and " substantial "

meal. It was such a relief just to take some items that I like out

of the cupboard and not think to much. That simple meal satisfied me

and kept my energy going until I returned home (I didn't even eat

the banana). I realize now that I have made planning for lunch an

area of stress and pressure in my life due to the affects of the

internal and external food police.

So my next steps are to really " keep it simple " , to get off the

clock, let go of thoughts/planning about food, and to enjoy the

present moment even more. My next experiment is to focus on eating

off the clock for a week and see what happens. I'm going to carry

snacks with me and eat when I'm hungry. I think I'll develop more

trust with my body this way.

Latoya:)

Practicing IE since Jan '08

September 4, 2008

Ooh, I do this a lot too, Arnie. Where does that fear originate? - I'm

not exactly living in a world of deprivation here, this ain't no war-

time ghetto where you don't know where your next meal is coming from!

So I end up " preventative eating " . I'll just have a little something

now, in case I get hungry later on. This particularly happens late in

the day - old diet rules, I guess - the Food Police! I don't like to

eat too late at night, and I have an irrational fear of being hungry

while trying to fall asleep.

Funny thing is, generally speaking I don't actually mind the sensation

of hunger and a little stomach growling. It signals an opportunity to

really meet my hunger and I find I usually enjoy food much more when

I'm truly hungry anyway.

But I can still hear the Food Police sometimes in the evenings ...

Sig

>

.... I realized from spending time with them that I still have an

> irrational fear of being hungry later in the day instead of just

> enjoying the moment.

>

> Arnie

>

September 4, 2008

Actually, this is a really great chapter - I urge anyone who hasn't

been through Intuitive Eating for a while to re-read it (and anyone

who hasn't read the book at all, do yourself a favour and try to find

a copy).

There's a lot to consider in it. I particularly like how the authors

give practical examples on how to counter the negative self-talk so

many of us live with all the time. Being able to catch and identify

(and thus challenge) these thoughts is a huge step in the right

direction for those of us who wish to repair our relationship with

food.

Sig

PS - *and* it contains one of my all-time favourite lines from

Shakespeare:

" ... there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so " .

>

> Hi All,

>

> This message is continuing with our weekly theme of a thread of

> messages focusing on one of the ten principles outlined in the book

> Intuitive Eating by Tribole and Resch. Please post and let us know

> what you think about this week's topic.

September 4, 2008

Good examples like the one you saw Arnie are easily discounted by the

Food Police! Isn't that one of the main reasons we have gotten into

the mindset that we (now) know as diet mentality?!?

My thinking about the Food Police now is different from when I started

IE. At first I was ANGRY at 'them' and probably at myself too for even

listening to 'them'!! Yet so much of what we are 'taught' is based

upon bowing to 'experts'. Granting a blank check to such 'authority'

is not a good thing either - it seems to have put me into a 'police

state' slavery to 'their' ideas and dictates about one of the basics

of MY life - food. Well this slave has and is rebelling!!!

Now I can see that much of my food police problems were

1) self generated - I alone accepted their input without (healthy)

questioning. (fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice [or more] -

shame on ME)

2) Even though much of the food police really really really feel that

they are offering something 'good' to me, they can't and don't KNOW me

enough to really provide me with REALLY good input! Those are MY

nerves supplying me with MY senses and feedback for ME to know and

properly respond to. No way can they know that for me.

3) Seeing the food police for what 'they' are - the DIET INDUSTRY -

which makes mega buck$ off of us who suffer due to dieting - has

helped me to stay unhooked from all the seductive and 'authoritian'

input I am bombarded with in the world around me.

I love the image of the food police really being a bunch of Keystone

Cops that one of the members here posted! Thank you and everyone else

here for sharing such positive ways to change my life for the better

Ehugs, Katcha

IEing since March 2007

> We spent one day at the beach and they have an 11 year old boy who

> was having the greatest time in the water and building sand

> structures. At one point one of them noticed he hadn't had lunch and

> the other parent just remarked, " He'll let us know when he's hungry. "

> I realized from spending time with them that I still have an

> irrational fear of being hungry later in the day instead of just

> enjoying the moment.

>

> Arnie

>

September 4, 2008

It sounds like I'm not alone in my fear of being hungry. Last night,

for instance, I had dinner in the oven because I knew I was

physically stomach growling hungry at 5:00 and could not wait until

6:30 or 7:00 to eat - which is my husband's preference. Even though

I knew that dinner was a mere 30 minutes away, I ate Cheetos while

waiting for it to bake. There has to be a place where honoring your

hunger and not being afraid to be hungry for a bit meet. If anyone

has a map to that location, I'll pay top dollar!

I'll need to re-read the chapter for sure.

>

> Hi All,

>

> This message is continuing with our weekly theme of a thread of

> messages focusing on one of the ten principles outlined in the book

> Intuitive Eating by Tribole and Resch. Please post and let us know

> what you think about this week's topic. Perhaps you could quote a

> small section that meant something special to you. If you haven't

> read the book for a while, you might want to re-read this section.

> Something new might jump out at you that you would like to share

> about. If you don't have the book that's okay too, just post on the

> topic or other peoples comments about the topic.

>

> If you are new to the group and would like to read and post about a

> previous week's theme, that's okay too. You can go directly to that

> message and then scroll down to the bottom of the page to see many

of

> the posts in that thread.

>

> Principle 1 - " Rejecting the Diet mentality " started with message #

> 16826.

> Principle 2 – " Honor Your Hunger " started with message # 17023.

> Principle 3 – " Make Peace with Food " started with message # 17267.

> ----------------------------------

>

> This chapter sure has a lot to make one think about how one thinks.

I

> noticed in re-reading this chapter that the authors gave this

> Principle far more real-estate in the book than any other

Principle.

>

> I sure could relate to the negative/destructive dieting voices they

> spoke of. The happy thing is that this second time reading the book

I

> could also relate to the ally voices as well. I still need to work

on

> developing those ally voices, but it is getting better.

> We had a wonderful long weekend visiting a friend and his family at

> their cottage. He used to be a chef and is an outrageously good

cook

> and they no inhibitions about what they eat. He made a desert that

> was a wonderful " sticky toffee pudding " . I really had a great

> weekend. Fortunately I didn't start worrying about what I was

eating

> until I got home and started to think I should make up for it. I'm

> glad I read this chapter today; it helped me to put things in their

> proper perspective.

>

> We spent one day at the beach and they have an 11 year old boy who

> was having the greatest time in the water and building sand

> structures. At one point one of them noticed he hadn't had lunch

and

> the other parent just remarked, " He'll let us know when he's

hungry. "

> I realized from spending time with them that I still have an

> irrational fear of being hungry later in the day instead of just

> enjoying the moment.

>

> Arnie

>

September 4, 2008

I actually discovered a couple false thoughts I had about food, for example, I dio sometimes eat snacks without hunger - from a belief acquired in one of my numerous useless diets that snacks like nuts or fat free milk, and eating 6 times a day would help fire up my metabolism and get rid of belly fat. Well, if I eat calories without hunger, and eat stuff I don`t even like, it will not do anything, except maybe eating more calories. So, I don`t snacks anymore, because, I don`t like too. I rather eat my three square meals, it is closer to my culture anyway.

Subject: Re: Principle 4 - "Challenge the Food Police"To: IntuitiveEating_Support Received: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 9:54 AM

Actually, this is a really great chapter - I urge anyone who hasn't been through Intuitive Eating for a while to re-read it (and anyone who hasn't read the book at all, do yourself a favour and try to find a copy).There's a lot to consider in it. I particularly like how the authors give practical examples on how to counter the negative self-talk so many of us live with all the time. Being able to catch and identify (and thus challenge) these thoughts is a huge step in the right direction for those of us who wish to repair our relationship with food.SigPS - *and* it contains one of my all-time favourite lines from Shakespeare:"... there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so".>> Hi All,> > This message is continuing with our weekly theme of a thread of > messages focusing on one of the ten principles outlined in the book > Intuitive Eating by Tribole and Resch. Please post and let us know > what you think about this week's topic.

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September 4, 2008

Good thinking and practice too Nat You are (back) in charge of your

(eating) life - inspiring

Katcha

IEing since March 2007

>

> I actually discovered a couple false thoughts I had about food, for

example, I dio sometimes eat snacks without hunger - from a belief

acquired in one of my numerous useless diets that snacks like nuts or

fat free milk, and eating 6 times a day would help fire up my

metabolism and get rid of belly fat. Well, if I eat calories without

hunger, and eat stuff I don`t even like, it will not do anything,

except maybe eating more calories. So, I don`t snacks anymore,

because, I don`t like too. I rather eat my three square meals, it is

closer to my culture anyway.

September 4, 2008

For me, this " fear " originates from a)feeling deprived of food at

age 9 when my Mom started going to WW and our favorite foods were no

longer available. and b)my mom was probably hypo-glycemic and when

she got too hungry she was extremely mean (borderline abusive) and I

always had a fear of being like her c)the diet industry that told us

not to get hungry, to always eat every 2-3 hours regardless....But

then when I would get hungry on the " diet " it was unbearable and yet

felt I couldn't eat because I had already eaten the alloted

points/calories/exchanges for the day. Usually I don't get that

fear anymore and actually like it when I get really hungry and know

that I truly do need to re-fuel my body. Occassionally that fear

does still creep in and that is usually when I eat when I'm not

really hungry. I just have to remind myself that I can eat at

anytime when I do get hungry.

Alana

> >

> ... I realized from spending time with them that I still have an

> > irrational fear of being hungry later in the day instead of just

> > enjoying the moment.

> >

> > Arnie

> >

>

September 4, 2008

Oh, I know where my fear of being hungry comes from. It comes from

years of having to plan out tomorrow and the next day's meals or not

eating. I've been on some very restrictive diets and not planning

ahead quite possible meant not eating. I would stick to those diets

religiously and if I couldn't find any approved food, I didn't eat.

Writing this and reading it back to myself is kind of disturbing. I

really treated myself abusively. I would never tell someone else to

starve if they couldn't find just the right food to eat. That's

cruel, but that's what I did. No wonder I'm always scared of being

hungry later in the day or tomorrow. I guess it will take some time

and a little tlc lavished on myself to overcome it.

Arnie

> >

> ... I realized from spending time with them that I still have an

> > irrational fear of being hungry later in the day instead of just

> > enjoying the moment.

> >

> > Arnie

> >

>

September 5, 2008

This principle is hard for me, too. I'm doing to the best of my ability each day, but boy, it is difficult sometimes.

I used to follow an Overeaters Anonymous food plan - everynight I planned out the next day's food. The food plan balanced the food "perfectly" - The "right" amount of veggies, fruit, protien, starch etc. Sometimes it is very hard for me to eat what I want. The food police jumps in saying things like "you've had enough starch for today!" or "that's too much protien" or "you need to eat more fruit" and on and on. I eat what I want anyways (most of the time), but it's hard to shut those voices in my head out!!

I still attend OA for the support etc, but I don't think I can go much longer. I cannot stand all the talk about "food plans" and how everyone's serenity etc relies on what they eat! I see so clearly now that it's just another diet. So dangerous.

I also sponsor people in OA. I have told them I no longer follow a food plan. I find lately - like the past week or so - that I cannot encourage people to follow a food plan. I have to let my sponsors go. I no longer believe I am helping them. My own sponsor knows of my IE. I no longer discuss food at all at meetings. I focus on the spirituality piece of it.

I guess all this is making me anxious. I definitely fear some negative feedback from OA as I continue my IE process.

Well, that's enough for now.

Happy IEing everyone!

Kim H.

Subject: Re: Principle 4 - "Challenge the Food Police"To: IntuitiveEating_Support Date: Friday, September 5, 2008, 12:49 AM

Oh, I know where my fear of being hungry comes from. It comes from years of having to plan out tomorrow and the next day's meals or not eating. I've been on some very restrictive diets and not planning ahead quite possible meant not eating. I would stick to those diets religiously and if I couldn't find any approved food, I didn't eat. Writing this and reading it back to myself is kind of disturbing. I really treated myself abusively. I would never tell someone else to starve if they couldn't find just the right food to eat. That's cruel, but that's what I did. No wonder I'm always scared of being hungry later in the day or tomorrow. I guess it will take some time and a little tlc lavished on myself to overcome it.Arnie> >> ... I realized from spending time with them that I still have an > > irrational fear of being hungry later in the day instead of just > > enjoying the moment. > > > > Arnie> >>

September 5, 2008

Kim,

I have a friend that told me just last night that she going to go to an OA meeting in the next week because she's really feeling like she needs support around working with her relationship with food. I attended one OA meeting about six years ago and it just didn't feel right for me. I've shared my work with IE, expressed me concerns to her about OA and she needs to go to a meeting to see if the group is a fit for her. I so wish that a local IE support group existed in this area that I could refer her to. Eventually, I'd probably like to start one of my own. For me, that conversation was another reason to be grateful for finding this group. People yearn for and need support when they see a need for change in their life and are starting off in a new direction.

I think that it's great that you can recognize and speak about the anxiety you're feeling with how your relationship is changing with your OA friends. I'm sure that OA has been a lifeline for many people...so to see someone transitioning away from that perspective could be scary for many, which might inspire some negative feedback. The fact that you're practicing IE demonstrates that you have a level of inner strength that will help you navigate through this time.

Happy IEing to you too!

Latoya

September 5, 2008

Excellent connection Arnie, and one that will serve you well as you go

along your IE journey. Awareness is the first step and your decision

to apply TLC to yourself is also a great decision too. Keep up the

good work and hope to hear more 'connection' posts for you

Best to you - Katcha

IEing since March 2007

>

> Oh, I know where my fear of being hungry comes from. It comes from

> years of having to plan out tomorrow and the next day's meals or not

> eating. I've been on some very restrictive diets and not planning

> ahead quite possible meant not eating. I would stick to those diets

> religiously and if I couldn't find any approved food, I didn't eat.

> Writing this and reading it back to myself is kind of disturbing. I

> really treated myself abusively. I would never tell someone else to

> starve if they couldn't find just the right food to eat. That's

> cruel, but that's what I did. No wonder I'm always scared of being

> hungry later in the day or tomorrow. I guess it will take some time

> and a little tlc lavished on myself to overcome it.

>

> Arnie

>

September 5, 2008

Good progress for you Kim. IE is about finding what fits YOU and puts

you back in charge of your life. OA sounds like a diet to me too. I am

glad you found support for whatever you are doing. If/when OA ceases

to be that, you know you always have this group as an option too.

Thanks for sharing -

Katcha

IEing since March 2007

>

> This principle is hard for me, too. I'm doing to the best of my

ability each day, but boy, it is difficult sometimes.

>

> I used to follow an Overeaters Anonymous food plan - everynight I

planned out the next day's food. The food plan balanced the food

" perfectly " - The " right " amount of veggies, fruit, protien, starch

etc. Sometimes it is very hard for me to eat what I want. The food

police jumps in saying things like " you've had enough starch for

today! " or " that's too much protien " or " you need to eat more fruit "

and on and on. I eat what I want anyways (most of the time), but it's

hard to shut those voices in my head out!!

>

> I still attend OA for the support etc, but I don't think I can go

much longer. I cannot stand all the talk about " food plans " and how

everyone's serenity etc relies on what they eat! I see so clearly now

that it's just another diet. So dangerous.

>

> I also sponsor people in OA. I have told them I no longer follow a

food plan. I find lately - like the past week or so - that I cannot

encourage people to follow a food plan. I have to let my sponsors go.

I no longer believe I am helping them. My own sponsor knows of my IE.

I no longer discuss food at all at meetings. I focus on the

spirituality piece of it.

>

> I guess all this is making me anxious. I definitely fear some

negative feedback from OA as I continue my IE process.

>

> Well, that's enough for now.

> Happy IEing everyone!

> Kim H.

>

September 5, 2008

Kim,

I so can relate to what you are saying with OA. The second time I

tried returning to OA I found the people there living in little

boxes around their food plans. I decided that that was not how I

wanted to live my life. But I also agree with you, that what we

often get from OA is the spiritual piece. That is hard to find here

as some people get offended and we have to be so careful what we say

around spirituality. I know the Thin Within group has been

suggested before, but I found it to be too much on the other extreme

as far as the religion goes. Some how, there must be somewhere in

the middle. If you would like to support eachother with IE and have

the spiritual piece, maybe we can do it outside of the yahoo group.

Contact me on my personal email if you might be interested.

Take care,

Alana

-- In IntuitiveEating_Support , Kim

wrote:

>

> This principle is hard for me, too. I'm doing to the best of my

ability each day, but boy, it is difficult sometimes.

>

> I used to follow an Overeaters Anonymous food plan - everynight I

planned out the next day's food. The food plan balanced the

food " perfectly " - The " right " amount of veggies, fruit, protien,

starch etc. Sometimes it is very hard for me to eat what I want. The

food police jumps in saying things like " you've had enough starch

for today! " or " that's too much protien " or " you need to eat more

fruit " and on and on. I eat what I want anyways (most of the time),

but it's hard to shut those voices in my head out!!

>

> I still attend OA for the support etc, but I don't think I can go

much longer. I cannot stand all the talk about " food plans " and how

everyone's serenity etc relies on what they eat! I see so clearly

now that it's just another diet. So dangerous.

>

> I also sponsor people in OA. I have told them I no longer follow a

food plan. I find lately - like the past week or so - that I cannot

encourage people to follow a food plan. I have to let my sponsors

go. I no longer believe I am helping them. My own sponsor knows of

my IE. I no longer discuss food at all at meetings. I focus on the

spirituality piece of it.

>

> I guess all this is making me anxious. I definitely fear some

negative feedback from OA as I continue my IE process.

>

> Well, that's enough for now.

> Happy IEing everyone!

> Kim H.

>

September 5, 2008

Arnie,

The first step is always our awareness of why we do what we do.

Only then can we make changes. So, way to go on your recognitions

and on realizing how abusive you have been in the past. Now you

really can move forward to giving your body what it needs. What

will you do to give yourself the TLC it needs? Just curious.

Alana

>

> Oh, I know where my fear of being hungry comes from. It comes from

> years of having to plan out tomorrow and the next day's meals or

not

> eating. I've been on some very restrictive diets and not planning

> ahead quite possible meant not eating. I would stick to those

diets

> religiously and if I couldn't find any approved food, I didn't

eat.

> Writing this and reading it back to myself is kind of disturbing.

I

> really treated myself abusively. I would never tell someone else

to

> starve if they couldn't find just the right food to eat. That's

> cruel, but that's what I did. No wonder I'm always scared of being

> hungry later in the day or tomorrow. I guess it will take some

time

> and a little tlc lavished on myself to overcome it.

>

> Arnie

>

September 5, 2008

I have recently left OA too. I thought that the face-to-face support

would dovetail nicely with what I am doing with IE and my

nutritionist, but I just could not continue to listen to all the

negativity and diet mentality there.

I cannot view my eating behavior as a " disease " that I will have to

keep in check for the rest of my life. I see it as a coping

mechanism that no longer serves me. I think of my overeating as a

teddy bear that I use for comfort, and that someday (with the right

support in place) I won't need it anymore.

I found that the people who were successful in the food arena were

compulsive in other areas of their lives. A lot of people I met who

seemed to have it together were also " shopaholics " - they were thin,

but not healthy or at peace with themselves.

I have just started attending a drop-in support group for bulimics

and binge eaters (I consider myself the latter) and that looks

promising, even though some people talk about exchanges. Hopefully,

I will also hear more positive body-talk and coping strategies rather

than the " Don't eat, no matter what " of OA.

> > >

> > ... I realized from spending time with them that I still have an

> > > irrational fear of being hungry later in the day instead of

just

> > > enjoying the moment.

> > >

> > > Arnie

> > >

> >

>

September 6, 2008

Hi All!

I am not a frequent poster, but I wanted to chime in about this

principle. This is such a big issue in my life. When I first came

to IE, I quickly ran away because of the food police telling me I

HAVE to eat a healthy breakfast within and hour of waking. That

conflicted with the eat when you are hungry philosophy. So then

which is right?? I posted about it at the time and have now let go of

that breakfast rule. And the sky did not fall on my head!! I have a

delicious cup of coffee in the morning and then eat when hunger

comes, usually around mid-morning. This is so freeing!! I love

this!!

I first came to IE by doing a google search titled " recovery from

dieting " . I had a sense that all these rules were making me crazy,

and no matter how hard I tried I could not follow them for long! I

would eat as prescribed and have terrible stomach pains. I am now

delighted to find that when I eat when I am hungry, I don't have all

that stomach distress. It seems I was eating an insane amount of

food to get all my pieces and parts in place-protein, veg, starch,

fat, etc. The program I followed was a healthy eating plan, but very

unhealthy for my mind and spirit. It mostly was about sugar, and how

it was the root of all evil and would cause you to go off the deep

and and lose your mind:) Seriously, I believe this to be VERY

damaging.

I am grateful to be here and to be able to read about everyone's

journey. I must go back to the IE book and read it again, as it has

been awhile for me.

September 6, 2008

For me the food police come alive when I'm hungry and I look at the

clock and a little voice in my head says you can't possibly be hungry

for lunch it's not lunchtime. When I'm hungry now I try to think of

what I would like or need and I try hard not to look at the clock.

When I go to Mcs the food police come alive when I order a Big

Mac and fries and it says you better get a diet coke. I try to shut

out that voice and I say I do not like Mcs regular coke I

prefer their diet coke or an Iced Tea. I like regular coke with ice

occasionally as I don't enjoy carbonated beverages too much. When I

do want a carbonated beverage I much prefer them from a bottle then a

can.

Thanks,

J.