Guest guest Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Hi , Thank you very much for the information. It has answered a lot of questions.. I can now hit my Rheumatologist with it now. I've brought it up a few times, but each time it was " all in my head " . That's the point it is in my head!! The cognitive impairment and the lack of verbal fluency makes you feel as though you are on your way to Dementia. The reason i said post menapause was that hormones can play a part with more or less the same symptoms. I now have a much more positive outlook thanks to this group and all you wonderful people. I'm quite a positive person normally but like each and every one of you, we have our moments. Literally, every day we learn something new. Very best wishes to et al x From: <Rheumatoid.Arthritis.Support@...> Subject: [ ] RESEARCH - Cognitive impairment in RA " " < > Date: Thursday, 26 March, 2009, 12:46 PM Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol 2004, 26(5): 339 ISSN 0379-0355 Copyright 2004 Prous Science CCC: 0379-0355 DOI: 10.1358/mf.2004. 26.5.831324 Cognitive impairment in rheumatoid arthritis Appenzeller, S., Bertolo, M.B., Costallat, L.T. The objective of this study was to determine the frequency of cognitive impairment in patients with rheumatoid arthritis (RA). A cross-sectional study of 40 patients with RA and 40 healthy controls was performed. To assess cognitive impairment, anxiety and depression, the following standardized psychiatric and clinical research methods were used: the Mini-Mental State Examination (MMSE), logic memory tests, short and long memory tests, verbal fluency tests, attention tests, the Brief Psychiatric Rating Scale (BPRS), the Hospital Anxiety and Depression (HAD)/CAGE scale and the Beck Depression Inventory (BDI). Patients and controls with incomplete primary education were excluded from the study. Statistics were performed by chi-square test and by Fisher's exact test. Cognitive impairment was observed in 30% of patients with RA and in 7.5% (p < 0.05) of healthy controls. Patients with RA had a significantly worse outcome in verbal fluency (p < 0.05), logic memory (p < 0.05) and short memory (p < 0.05). No statistical difference was observed among the results obtained in the MMSE, BPRS, HAD/CAGE and BDI. There was no significant relation to the duration of the illness, use of corticotherapy or disability. We observed a high prevalence of cognitive impairment in RA patients. Cognitive impairment was not related to clinical and treatment features or disability. More studies are necessary to determine clinical impact of cognitive impairment in RA. http://journals. prous.com/ journals/ servlet/xmlxsl/ pk_journals. xml_summary_ pr?p_JournalId= 6 & p_RefId= 831324 & p_ IsPs=N Not an MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 , Thanks for this. Like everyone else, it gets old being told " it's all in your head " , or, " I really don't think it's from RA " pat on the head, see you next time. I think the jury is still out as to whether or not MTX causes " brain foggy " side effects or not. My own rheumy is a walking contradiction. Don't get me wrong, I really like him, and have no desire to see another, but it just shows that there is a lot left to be learned. He has told me to use Robitussin to curb any " fuzzy " effects of MTX an hour before I begin to take it (which helps!), yet next visit, I'll get there is no evidence or something like that that MTX causes these problems. Anyway, I'd like to print this and bring this to him if this is OK. Also, I had an incident yesterday I'd like to share. I was getting ready to go to a support group (regarding unemployment). While taking my shower, my muscles suddenly felt very heavy and I became really shaky. I got out as fast as I could, did what I had to do, and rested. I seemed to feel OK, so I drove to the meeting. It was up 3 flights of stairs, no elevator. I went up and sat down. I was already feeling foggy so I tried to make a point of remembering everyone's name and what they said...nope, didn't happen. Then someone noticed I was a little spacey looking. He asked me if I ate breakfast. I honestly didn't know. After the meeting, they helped me downstairs, I mostly did it on my own, and sat down in the office. They got the nurse and made me drink some cranberry juice. I was fine, just really tired and " foggy " . 2 of the guys walked me out and 1 had bought some banana bread and had me eat a little piece. I'm not diabetic, but being cooler and outside did help, but I just came home and rested. Here is the amusing part. I called my PCP. He told me to call my Neurologist. His Nurse told me that with all the stressors I have and the conditions I have, things are going to happen. I can make an appointment if I want to. I would probably be better off seeing my psychiatrist. I told her that I have only seen him twice, and it's just to say Hi, how are you doing on your adderrol. I made an appt. for a month away to see the Neurologist. No biggie. I figure it was just a fibro episode. I'm newly dx'd with Fibro although I've had it for quite a while. I'm ok today. Still fuzzy, but functional. Thoughts? Happy Friday... Heidi in Mass.... In a message dated 3/26/2009 8:46:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Rheumatoid.Arthritis.Support@... writes: Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol 2004, 26(5): 339 ISSN 0379-0355 Copyright 2004 Prous Science CCC: 0379-0355 DOI: 10.1358/mf.2004.DOI: 10 Cognitive impairment in rheumatoid arthritis Appenzeller, S., Bertolo, M.B., Costallat, L.T. The objective of this study was to determine the frequency of cognitive impairment in patients with rheumatoid arthritis (RA). A cross-sectional study of 40 patients with RA and 40 healthy controls was performed. To assess cognitive impairment, anxiety and depression, the following standardized psychiatric and clinical research methods were used: the Mini-Mental State Examination (MMSE), logic memory tests, short and long memory tests, verbal fluency tests, attention tests, the Brief Psychiatric Rating Scale (BPRS), the Hospital Anxiety and Depression (HAD)/CAGE scale and the Beck Depression Inventory (BDI). Patients and controls with _incomplete primary education were excluded from the study. Statistics were performed by chi-square test and by Fisher's exact test. Cognitive impairment was observed in 30% of patients with RA and in 7.5% (p < 0.05) of healthy controls. Patients with RA had a significantly worse outcome in verbal fluency (p < 0.05), logic memory (p < 0.05) and short memory (p < 0.05). No statistical difference was observed among the results obtained in the MMSE, BPRS, HAD/CAGE and BDI. There was no significant relation to the duration of the illness, use of corticotherapy or disability. We observed a high prevalence of cognitive impairment in RA patients. Cognitive impairment was not related to clinical and treatment features or disability. More studies are necessary to determine clinical impact of cognitive impairment in RA. _ (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/barackobam409128.html) _http://journals.http://jouhttp://johttp://journalshttp://journhttp://journhttp:\ //journ alsh & p_RefId=p_RefI & p_p_<WBR_ (http://journals.prous.com/journals/servlet/xmlxsl/pk_journals.xml_summary_pr?p_\ JournalId=6 & p_RefId=831324 & p_IsPs=N) _ Not an MD _ (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/barackobam409128.html) **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make meals for Under $10. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000002) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Yes, , thank you for this. Once i saw the title I looked for the concepts of " verbal fluency " and " short term memory " because, while I'm 46, I've had RA since 4. I have always lost things and not remembered where I put things seconds later,even in my 20s. AND I have so much trouble remembering words when I speak!!!!! I'm a writer and I think I like writing because I have time to think things through before putting them on paper and get it right! I sound like a monosyllabic DOPE when I speak. I always wondered if it could be related to the RA. I too asked my Rheumy if this could be related--he just glanced at me and moved on. This is the kind of thing that SHOULDN'T be good news, but what a relief that I'm not just an airhead, RA may be involved -- what a relief!!!! Love ya, ! Sharon > > From: <Rheumatoid.Arthritis.Support@...> > Subject: [ ] RESEARCH - Cognitive impairment in RA > " " < > > Date: Thursday, 26 March, 2009, 12:46 PM > > > > > > > Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol 2004, 26(5): 339 > ISSN 0379-0355 > Copyright 2004 Prous Science > CCC: 0379-0355 > DOI: 10.1358/mf.2004. 26.5.831324 > > Cognitive impairment in rheumatoid arthritis > > Appenzeller, S., Bertolo, M.B., Costallat, L.T. > > The objective of this study was to determine the frequency of > cognitive impairment in patients with rheumatoid arthritis (RA). A > cross-sectional study of 40 patients with RA and 40 healthy controls > was performed. To assess cognitive impairment, anxiety and depression, > the following standardized psychiatric and clinical research methods > were used: the Mini-Mental State Examination (MMSE), logic memory > tests, short and long memory tests, verbal fluency tests, attention > tests, the Brief Psychiatric Rating Scale (BPRS), the Hospital Anxiety > and Depression (HAD)/CAGE scale and the Beck Depression Inventory > (BDI). Patients and controls with incomplete primary education were > excluded from the study. Statistics were performed by chi-square test > and by Fisher's exact test. Cognitive impairment was observed in 30% > of patients with RA and in 7.5% (p < 0.05) of healthy controls. > Patients with RA had a significantly worse outcome in verbal fluency > (p < 0.05), logic memory (p < 0.05) and short memory (p < 0.05). No > statistical difference was observed among the results obtained in the > MMSE, BPRS, HAD/CAGE and BDI. There was no significant relation to the > duration of the illness, use of corticotherapy or disability. We > observed a high prevalence of cognitive impairment in RA patients. > Cognitive impairment was not related to clinical and treatment > features or disability. More studies are necessary to determine > clinical impact of cognitive impairment in RA. > > http://journals. prous.com/ journals/ servlet/xmlxsl/ pk_journals. xml_summary_ pr?p_JournalId= 6 & p_RefId= 831324 & p_ IsPs=N > > > Not an MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 You're welcome, . I'm glad that being part of the group is helping you. Not an MD On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Ledsom <sarahledsom@...> wrote: > Hi , > Thank you very much for the information. It has answered a lot of > questions.. I can now hit my Rheumatologist with it now. I've brought it up > a few times, but each time it was " all in my head " . That's the point it is > in my head!! The cognitive impairment and the lack of verbal fluency makes > you feel as though you are on your way to Dementia. The reason i said post > menapause was that hormones can play a part with more or less the same > symptoms. > > I now have a much more positive outlook thanks to this group and all you > wonderful people. I'm quite a positive person normally but like each and > every one of you, we have our moments. Literally, every day we learn > something new. > > Very best wishes to et al > x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Heidi, of course you may print the article out and take it to your rheumatologist for discussion. I'm not sure what to make of your episode. Be sure to write the details down for future reference. Not an MD On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 11:38 AM, <sposy@...> wrote: > , > > Thanks for this. Like everyone else, it gets old being told " it's all in > your head " , or, " I really don't think it's from RA " pat on the head, see > you > next time. I think the jury is still out as to whether or not MTX causes > " brain foggy " side effects or not. My own rheumy is a walking contradiction. > Don't get me wrong, I really like him, and have no desire to see another, > but it > just shows that there is a lot left to be learned. He has told me to use > Robitussin to curb any " fuzzy " effects of MTX an hour before I begin to take > it > (which helps!), yet next visit, I'll get there is no evidence or something > like that that MTX causes these problems. Anyway, I'd like to print this and > bring this to him if this is OK. > > Also, I had an incident yesterday I'd like to share. I was getting ready to > go to a support group (regarding unemployment). While taking my shower, my > muscles suddenly felt very heavy and I became really shaky. I got out as > fast > as I could, did what I had to do, and rested. I seemed to feel OK, so I > drove to the meeting. It was up 3 flights of stairs, no elevator. I went up > and > sat down. I was already feeling foggy so I tried to make a point of > remembering everyone's name and what they said...nope, didn't happen. Then > someone > noticed I was a little spacey looking. He asked me if I ate breakfast. I > honestly didn't know. After the meeting, they helped me downstairs, I mostly > did it on my own, and sat down in the office. They got the nurse and made me > drink some cranberry juice. I was fine, just really tired and " foggy " . 2 of > the guys walked me out and 1 had bought some banana bread and had me eat a > little piece. I'm not diabetic, but being cooler and outside did help, but I > just came home and rested. Here is the amusing part. I called my PCP. He > told > me to call my Neurologist. His Nurse told me that with all the stressors I > have and the conditions I have, things are going to happen. I can make an > appointment if I want to. I would probably be better off seeing my > psychiatrist. I told her that I have only seen him twice, and it's just to > say Hi, how > are you doing on your adderrol. I made an appt. for a month away to see the > Neurologist. No biggie. I figure it was just a fibro episode. I'm newly dx'd > with Fibro although I've had it for quite a while. I'm ok today. Still > fuzzy, > but functional. Thoughts? > Happy Friday... > > Heidi in Mass.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Great article gina...One of my symptoms was memory problems with my first rheumy appointment..He just kinda shrugged his shoulders.I still have it..but nobody seems to be concerned..I am thinking I could have dementia or something..and these symptoms stared right along with others..but that articles sums it up... diane in ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 This is me - I have such troubles with word retrieval. My rheumy wants me to be evaluated by a neurologist. My internist ordered a brain MRI and everything was okay. I am going to go to a neurologist - just haven't had time yet. , thanks so much for the article. What worries me though is that there were a significant number of subjects that showed impairment but I cannot find any more current research on the subject. Of course, I am just using Google but don't you think someone else would have studied this too? It's surprising to me. Heidi, I have had the same symptoms occasionally. I just brushed them off as not eating enough protein but it is scary. I remember that once it happened while I was walking up to my house - I just kept praying that I wouldn't fall down. A few minutes of rest, however, and the symptoms go away. > > , > > > > Thanks for this. Like everyone else, it gets old being told " it's all in > > your head " , or, " I really don't think it's from RA " pat on the head, see > > you > > next time. I think the jury is still out as to whether or not MTX causes > > " brain foggy " side effects or not. My own rheumy is a walking contradiction. > > Don't get me wrong, I really like him, and have no desire to see another, > > but it > > just shows that there is a lot left to be learned. He has told me to use > > Robitussin to curb any " fuzzy " effects of MTX an hour before I begin to take > > it > > (which helps!), yet next visit, I'll get there is no evidence or something > > like that that MTX causes these problems. Anyway, I'd like to print this and > > bring this to him if this is OK. > > > > Also, I had an incident yesterday I'd like to share. I was getting ready to > > go to a support group (regarding unemployment). While taking my shower, my > > muscles suddenly felt very heavy and I became really shaky. I got out as > > fast > > as I could, did what I had to do, and rested. I seemed to feel OK, so I > > drove to the meeting. It was up 3 flights of stairs, no elevator. I went up > > and > > sat down. I was already feeling foggy so I tried to make a point of > > remembering everyone's name and what they said...nope, didn't happen. Then > > someone > > noticed I was a little spacey looking. He asked me if I ate breakfast. I > > honestly didn't know. After the meeting, they helped me downstairs, I mostly > > did it on my own, and sat down in the office. They got the nurse and made me > > drink some cranberry juice. I was fine, just really tired and " foggy " . 2 of > > the guys walked me out and 1 had bought some banana bread and had me eat a > > little piece. I'm not diabetic, but being cooler and outside did help, but I > > just came home and rested. Here is the amusing part. I called my PCP. He > > told > > me to call my Neurologist. His Nurse told me that with all the stressors I > > have and the conditions I have, things are going to happen. I can make an > > appointment if I want to. I would probably be better off seeing my > > psychiatrist. I told her that I have only seen him twice, and it's just to > > say Hi, how > > are you doing on your adderrol. I made an appt. for a month away to see the > > Neurologist. No biggie. I figure it was just a fibro episode. I'm newly dx'd > > with Fibro although I've had it for quite a while. I'm ok today. Still > > fuzzy, > > but functional. Thoughts? > > Happy Friday... > > > > Heidi in Mass.... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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