Re: INFO - Q & A: 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine

[Guest guest]

You beat me to the punch, I was gonna post this just now. I wrote to the CDC

this AM asking for specific info on Enbrel and this vaccine. I am waiting their

reply and will post it.

OKD

[Guest guest]

OKD,

I'm not sure of a reason you couldn't receive the inactivated H1N1

vaccine while on Enbrel.

Not an MD

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 11:55 AM, OKD <Cofade_2000@...> wrote:

> You beat me to the punch, I was gonna post this just now.  I wrote to the CDC

this AM asking for specific info on Enbrel and this vaccine. I am waiting their

reply and will post it.

>

> OKD

[Guest guest]

Because:

1) Their is NO research on the subject. Nobody knows how ENBREL patients react

with this vaccine. Not even the ENBREL Folks.

2) How do you know if your batch is live or not?

3) Why did they pass a law stating that anybody that takes this cannot sue the

state for mandating it, nor the drug company?

4) The CDC has put up no research specifically about ENBREL and H1N1

5) I dont like all this " you have too " stuff

6) If you keep your system AKALINE, your Vit D Levels up, eat well, and wash

your hands constantly, viruses like these can't thrive and spread.

[Guest guest]

OKD,

1) True, but testing of every possible scenario doesn't occur. It's

also very early in the H1N1 story. There hasn't been enough time to do

a lot of research; however, there have been several studies on the

safety and effectiveness of other influenza vaccines in combination

with the biologics, and no alarming trends have been discovered.

2) This is most definitely known. Whoever is administering the shot

will know and can show you whether it is inactivated or attenuated.

3) I blame our legal system.

4) Same answer as #1.

5) That's not a can't, it's a won't. I do sympathize though!

6) I'm not sure about that.

Not an MD

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 12:07 PM, cofade_2000 <Cofade_2000@...> wrote:

> Because:

>

> 1) Their is NO research on the subject. Nobody knows how ENBREL patients react

with this vaccine.  Not even the ENBREL Folks.

>

> 2) How do you know if your batch is live or not?

>

> 3) Why did they pass a law stating that anybody that takes this cannot sue the

state for mandating it, nor the drug company?

>

> 4) The CDC has put up no research specifically about ENBREL and H1N1

>

> 5) I dont like all this " you have too " stuff

>

> 6) If you keep your system AKALINE, your Vit D Levels up, eat well, and wash

your hands constantly,  viruses like these can't thrive and spread.

[Guest guest]

Does anyone else sort of wish they'd just get H1N1 and get it over with?

Seriously, if I could time it with changing jobs and in between Enbrel shots, I

would seriously consider volunteering to get a big swab of H1N1 to the nose just

to get rid of all the tension. In church on Sun I avoided all eye contact

during sign of peace and pretended to be fussing with the kids! I'm tired of

jumping every time I hear a croupy cough or someone sneezes.

Kate F

[Guest guest]

I don't want to get it, because I might be one of the ones it kills.

That's why I plan to get the vaccination just as soon as it's

available here. I am on Enbrel, too.

Sue

On Sep 18, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Fair wrote:

> Does anyone else sort of wish they'd just get H1N1 and get it over

> with? Seriously, if I could time it with changing jobs and in

> between Enbrel shots, I would seriously consider volunteering to get

> a big swab of H1N1 to the nose just to get rid of all the tension.

> In church on Sun I avoided all eye contact during sign of peace and

> pretended to be fussing with the kids! I'm tired of jumping every

> time I hear a croupy cough or someone sneezes.

>

> Kate F

[Guest guest]

Amen! My daughter had it, she works in a school, yes she was sick, but it was

no worse than the flu, after a week, she was ok.

OKD

[Guest guest]

:

The irritating rub of this whole exchange of ours is that here in New York

State, if you are a person working in a hospital, no matter what your position

is, whether direct patient care or not, you will be relieved of duty, without

pay, if you dont take the H1N1 vaccine. If after two weeks, you still refuse,

you will be dismissed, oh an they threw in they would fight against your getting

unemployment, being fired for gross insubordination. UNLESS your physician

states that it is contraindicated for your condition. The 4 conditions of that

are: allergy to eggs, allergy to Thimerisal, Severe adverse reaction to a

previous flu vaccine, or History of Guillen-Barre Syndrome.

So whether I want it or not, if I want to keep my job, I am stuck. If my rheumy

says there is no contraindication, I am stuck (whatever may happen to me be

damned).

And that my friends is called...well, i can't say it here.

OKD

[Guest guest]

OKD -

 

You really brought up some ligitamate concerns - luckily for me, I now work with

my husband when I can so I don't have an employer forcing me to do something

that I am uncomfortable with and/or afraid of the concequinces of

doing...BUT.... It seems like there would be some law out there for employers

and/or employees that lies somewhere hidden that could be applied.  Gees- what

about the small print in the ADA guidelines for example - and no, I haven't read

that in years but I do have a copy filed away (from my previous position) if no

one here has a handy copy............

 

There has to be someone in our group that comes from a current or past human

resources type position that would know the  " insides " to this type of

situation. I, myself want to know for my own future knowledge. I just can't see

being FORCED to do something against your will. I guess and I am uncomfortable

mentioning this avenue, but there is freedom of religion that you could pull if

you really need your job and your doc is not able to help you and you are just

without an option. That is a personal choice and plse no one blast me for making

that statement - just trying to explore all avenues in case you haven't thought

of something. Do not know your personal situation -  

One thing I would suggest  first & foremost if you haven't---- talk to  your

doctor in depth over your situation -  (and I apologize that I haven't been able

to keep up with all of the posts regarding this H1N1!!) But if it truly is a

risk and/OR you just don't feel comfortable with it for whatever reason - be

honest with your doc - the majority of docs I have ever had in my life, will

just sign whatever - once and when you are simply honest and upfront with your

concerns in regards to your own health.

 

You will be in my thoughts - I just can't imagine an employer that would act

like this - plse keep us all posted.........Good luck friend!

in SC

From: OKD <Cofade_2000@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: INFO - Q & A: 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine

Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 4:51 PM

 

:

The irritating rub of this whole exchange of ours is that here in New York

State, if you are a person working in a hospital, no matter what your position

is, whether direct patient care or not, you will be relieved of duty, without

pay, if you dont take the H1N1 vaccine. If after two weeks, you still refuse,

you will be dismissed, oh an they threw in they would fight against your getting

unemployment, being fired for gross insubordination. UNLESS your physician

states that it is contraindicated for your condition. The 4 conditions of that

are: allergy to eggs, allergy to Thimerisal, Severe adverse reaction to a

previous flu vaccine, or History of Guillen-Barre Syndrome.

So whether I want it or not, if I want to keep my job, I am stuck. If my rheumy

says there is no contraindication, I am stuck (whatever may happen to me be

damned).

And that my friends is called...well, i can't say it here.

OKD

[Guest guest]

Funny, but there was a guy in the H1N1/Flu Msndatory meeting that said he

objected for religious reasons to the vaccines, so they said he would be

transferred out of the hospital to a place where there are no patients and

doctors and nurses for the duration.

They dont care, for them, its a done deal.

OKD

[Guest guest]

Not sure if anyone gets Dr. Mercola's newsletters, he is a medical doctor that

focuses on holistic medicine combined with conventional medicines, it is

mercola.com

Anyways, if you are forced to take the vaccine this is what Dr. Blaylok

recommends:

The Following was composed by Dr. Blaylock as a method to reduce

autoimmune reactions to the flu vaccines only. Do not use this if you have the

flu itself. These are just general observations and not medical advice. You

should work with your doctor for a specific program.

Treatment for Toxic Vaccine Exposure

Place a cold compress on the site of the injection immediately after the

injection and continue this as often as possible for at least two days. If

symptoms of fever, irritability, fatigue or flu-like symptoms reoccur --

continue the cold compresses until they abate. A cold shower or bath will also

help.

Take fish oils -- I recommend the Norwegian fish oil made by Carlson Labs -- it

has the correct balance of EPA and DHA to reduce the cytokine storm. The dose is

one tablespoon a day -- if severe symptoms develop -- two tablespoons a day

until well and then switch to one tablespoon a day. Children -- one teaspoon a

day.

Curcumin, quercetin, ferulic acid and ellagic acid as a mixture -- the first two

must be mixed with extravirgin olive in one teaspoon. Take the mix three times a

day (500 mg of each)

Vitamin E (natural form) 400 IU a day (high in gamma-E)

Vitamin C 1000 mg four times a day

Astaxanthin 4 mg a day

Zinc 20 mg a day for one week then 5 mg a day

Avoid all immune stimulating supplements (mushroom extracts, whey protein)

except beta-glucan -- it has been shown to reduce inflammation, microglial

activation and has a reduced risk of aggravating autoimmunity, while increasing

antiviral cellular immunity.

Take a multivitamin/mineral daily (one without iron -- Extend Core)

Magnesium citrate/malate 500 mg of elemental magnesium two capsules three times

a day

Vitamin D3:

All Children -- 5000 IU a day for two weeks after vaccine then 2000 IU a day

thereafter

Adults -- 20,000 IU a day after vaccine for two weeks then 10,000 IU a day

thereafter

Take 500 mg to 1000 mg of calcium citrate a day for adults and 250 mg a day for

children under age 12 years.

Avoid all mercury-containing seafood

Avoid omega-6 oils (corn, safflower, sunflower, soybean, canola and peanut oils)

Blenderize parsley and celery and drink 8 ounces twice a day

Take Jatoba tea extract (add 20 drops in on cup of tea) one day before the

vaccine and the twice a day thereafter. (you can get it at

http://www.iherb.com/Amazon-Therapeutics-Jatoba-1-oz-30-ml/14429?at=0) It is

inexpensive.

It is what it is. I dont trust these mutherflowers forcing this vaccines on us,

scaring us, so the drug companies can make a fortune....

OKD

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry you are in this situation, OKD. Please let us know what happens.

Not an MD

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 3:51 PM, OKD <Cofade_2000@...> wrote:

> :

>

> The irritating rub of this whole exchange of ours is that here in New York

State, if you are a person working in a hospital, no matter what your position

is, whether direct patient care or not,  you will be relieved of duty, without

pay, if you dont take the H1N1 vaccine.  If after two weeks, you still refuse,

you will be dismissed, oh an they threw in they would fight against your getting

unemployment, being fired for gross insubordination.  UNLESS your physician

states that it is contraindicated for your condition.  The 4 conditions of that

are:  allergy to eggs, allergy to Thimerisal, Severe adverse reaction to a

previous flu vaccine, or History of Guillen-Barre Syndrome.

>

> So whether I want it or not, if I want to keep my job, I am stuck.  If my

rheumy says there is no contraindication, I am stuck (whatever may happen to me

be damned).

>

> And that my friends is called...well, i can't say it here.

>

> OKD

[Guest guest]

I must say that ALL vaccines pose a risk! From the vaccines we give our

children...to the vaccines we give our pets...and ourselves. As the CDC info

states...the recommendations will change for the H1N1 vaccine as more info is

known. When it comes to most vaccines....if you read the info about them, the

possible side effects are MUCH worse than getting the disease itself...if you

take care of yourself and see your doctors and let them know when you are sick,

and NOT wait till you are VERY sick, these things can be caught in time to get

on medication so you do not end up in the hospital. My rheumy does NOT

recommend the flu or H1N1 vaccine...he said that if your immune system is low,

you do not want to jeopardize it by getting vaccinated...you must take care of

yourself, he feels there are too many risks with getting vaccinated. So, it's a

personal opinion, but I do not want the government forcing ME to get any kind of

vaccine....and they shouldn't scare people into doing it. Even before my RA,

every time I ever got a flu shot or pneumonia shot...I got sick after getting

the shot...but when I don't get them...I am fine...a couple minor colds is all!

Just remember, drug manufacturers stand to make a lot of money...and they want

you to think you need vaccinated. Read the info below from the virologists

website (virologists study viruses). I wont be getting vaccinated...as I havent

for the last 30 years. Just remember, even if you get the vaccine and don't get

sick...the vaccine itself can cause all kinds of other problems that I

personally would not want. I say NO to forced vaccinations....which is where

they are headed with this. Thank you! Carla

Death Rates From the H1N1 Flu

a.. If we use the 43,771 figure(the CDC's number) and 302 deaths(again the

CDC's number) that means the death rate is 0.6 percent, an extremely low death

rate for any flu.

b.. The percentage of hospitalized patients who died was 6 percent, again a

very low incidence of death.

c.. Since the CDC estimates that one million have been infected, we must

recalculate death rates. Using this more accurate figure, the death rate is in

truth 0.03 percent, which means 99.97percent will not die from this flu. Your

chances of dying are incredibly low.

Age and Death Rates

We hear a lot about the unusual age distribution with this virus, especially as

regards death rates, with the young being more affected than, as withseasonal

flu, the elderly (90% of deaths are usually among those greater than 65 years

old). The risks of becoming infected are as follows:

a.. Ages 5 to 24 y/o----26.7 per 100,000 (0.027%)

b.. Ages 0 to 4 y/o-----22.9 per 100,000 (0.023%)

c.. Ages 25 to 49------6.97 per 100,000 (0.0069%)

d.. Ages 50 to 64 y/o---3.9 per 100,000 (0.0039)

e.. Over 65 y/o-------1.3 per 1000,000 (0.00013%)

And the risk of needing to be hospitalized are:

a.. Ages 0 to 4 y/o-----0.0045%

b.. Ages 5 to 24 y/o----0.0021%

c.. Ages 25 to 45 y/o---0.0011%

d.. Over 65 y/o-------0.0017%

This indicates that for all age groups, the risk of being hospitalized are far

less than 1 percent and well over 99 percent of people will not need

hospitalization.

This explains why this infection is being downplayed by the virologists

themselves, the ones who know most about the dangers of viruses.

The distributions of death also vary considerably by age. Below is the

distribution of deaths according to age.

a.. Ages 25-49 y/o-----41%

b.. Ages 50 to 64 y/o---24%

c.. Ages 5 to 24 y/o---16%

d.. Over age 65 y/o---- 9%

e.. Ages 0 to 4 y/o----2%

So, we see that the greatest death rates in the extremely small fraction that

die are between ages 25 to 49 and 65 percent are between ages 25 to 64.

The least likely to die are babies up to age 4 years, yet they are targeted for

vaccination and as we see from the above data, children below age 2 years get

absolutely no protection from the flu vaccines.

Analysis of the New Government Projections to the Media

If we analyzed it according to the worst case scenario released by the

government we see far lower figures than being projected:

They say 150 million Americans will be infected. That is 150 X as many as now

infected, and represents a much larger figure than now estimated with a 6 to 6.5

percent of a localized population.

For the United States itself with a population slightly over 300 million,

their figures indicate a 50 percent infection rate. There is nothing to indicate

such a high infectivity rate from the past 7 months of analysis.

It should also be appreciated that the infections will not occur all at once,

but will slowly evolve, as we have seen thus far, meaning that at any one time a

much smaller amount of Americans will be infected-which also reduces the numbers

who will require hospitalizations at any one time, and who will need ICU care.

As far as the number that will need hospitalization, the Government now says

there will be 1.8 million people hospitalized, of which 300,000 may need ICU

treatment.

If we use the existing data we see that the numbers are quite different. At

the time the data was taken, 303 people out of one million infected died and

5,011 needed hospitalization. This means a projected hospitalization incidence

of 750,000 and a death rate of 45,000 deaths. Remember, this is using their data

applied to the outrageously high figure of 50% of the population being

infected-that is, 150 million people.

If the infection rate is 6 percent, as all the studies have shown thus far, we

see much smaller numbers.

Instead of 150 million infected we see 18 million infected. Using these more

realistic figures we can estimate a hospitalization rate of 90,000 and a

projected death incidence of 5436.

Again, it is important to keep in mind that the infections will be evolving

and not all at once as both sets of figures seem to imply. If we spread this

over several months and waves of the infection, we see that at any one time the

hospitalizations will be a much smaller number, as will the deaths.

Thus far, there have been nationwide 2,000 hospitalizations a month and 99

deaths a month.

Certainly the hospitals in the United States can handle the increase. In the

United States we have 5,759 hospitals containing 955,000 beds and 70,000 ICU

beds. Most hospitalized people will not require intensive care. Most are

suffering from dehydration and only required IV fluid infusion.

It should also be appreciated that most pediatric deaths and elderly deaths

will occur early in the epidemic because the chronically ill and immune

suppressed will become infected early. Therefore one would expect the deaths to

rise initially and then fall as the infection spreads as we see from this graph:

In this chart we see that the hospitalization rates are actually lower for

the swine flu than in previous seasons.

In this graph we see that the hospitalization rates were either lower or

barely above the seasonal flu admissions in the previous two years.

We can see from the CDC's own data that the hospitalization rates and death

rates are no higher, in fact they are significantly lower, than the previous two

to three flu seasons. It is obvious that the Government is using " scare tactics "

to promote vaccine use in the United States and that the pharmaceutical makers

of vaccines are in bed with these officials. The public should be outraged

Dr. Mercola's Comments:

Dr. Blaylock has done a wonderful job of interpreting the misleading data and

fear mongering put out by conventional media. Mark my words, the " expected "

causalties from the swine flu, recently released by a presidential advisory

panel are nothing but pure fiction.

On August 25, CNN reported that the swine flu could cause up to 90,000 deaths

in the U.S. alone. This is downright preposterous. As Dr. Blaylock discusses

above, there are absolutely no indications to validate these kinds of numbers.

Instead, it's sounding more and more like the bird flu hoax all over again.

So one of the most important, and potentially life saving measures you can

take is to make sure you have IDEAL vitamin D levels. The ONLY way to do this is

to get your blood tested and make sure the ranges are between 50 and 70 ng/ml.

My recommendation is to use Lab Corp. If for whatever reason, you are using

Quest, you must understand their numbers are inflated and you must divide by 1.3

to get the real number.

The typical dose most adults need is around 5000 units per day. However, the

dose could go to 20,000 units a day or even higher. The ONLY way to know is to

have your blood tested.

Dr. Cannell is on one of my colleagues in this area and has done enormous good

in educating the public about this issue. Unfortunately we do not share the same

position about vaccines. He is actually advising people to take them and he

strongly believes that there is a chance that it could save people's lives.

I couldn't disagree more strongly with his position but I respect his right to

maintain it. Just reminds me that the last position nearly every physician is

willing to give up is their position on vaccines. I have seen it time and time

again. So while Dr. Cannell has done us all a major service in educating us on

vitamin D, I believe he hasn't taken the next step and evaluated the vaccine

issue as carefully as he has the vitamin D one.

Behind the push to vaccinate the entire population are the pharmaceutical

makers of the vaccines, who are working in conjunction with the government to

make the vaccine mandatory.

Homeland security and FEMA are pushing for forced vaccinations and the medical

experts, virologists and epidemiologists are calling for calm and resorting to

voluntary vaccination only. The former have links with the vaccine manufacturers

via political contacts. A great deal of money will be made by the manufacturers,

should forced vaccinations be mandated.

[Guest guest]

I am not getting this vaccine nor am I getting the regular flu shot and I am not

having my kids get it. If our area forces us to have the kids vaccinated then I

am claiming a religious exemption. If I am not allowed to do that then I will be

forced to homeschool.

My question with all this is what ever happen to our constitution? What about

our freedoms and our right to decide what is best for us and our children.

On another note, the FDA will not allow new drugs on the market without being

tested for years. However, they feel it ok to push this vaccine on us with just

a minimal amount of testing. The military is being forced once again to take

this vaccine and will get it before the general population. Hence our military

members will once again be guinea pigs.

I know I have gotten off topic a bit but I am damn mad at the way our government

is taking our freedoms away so someone can make a buck. That is all I am going

to say.

[Guest guest]

So you're going to cut off your nose to spite your face, ? Just because

you're mad at someone, you still need to make honest, reasonable decisions

for the kids at least. This reminds me of the rhetoric when seat-belt laws

were enacted. People still get killed in 'minor' accidents because they

don't wear them. OTOH, a neighbor's parents decided for her when polio

vaccines were passed out and they knew better. Now her leg is shorter and

deformed because she didn't have the chance to decide for herself.

I fought for you and everyone else to have the right to voice your opinion.

'Nuff said!

Dennis in eastexas

On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 4:35 PM, ktandtm <ktandtm@...> wrote:

>

>

> I am not getting this vaccine nor am I getting the regular flu shot and I

> am not having my kids get it. If our area forces us to have the kids

> vaccinated then I am claiming a religious exemption. If I am not allowed to

> do that then I will be forced to homeschool.

>

> My question with all this is what ever happen to our constitution? What

> about our freedoms and our right to decide what is best for us and our

> children.

>

> On another note, the FDA will not allow new drugs on the market without

> being tested for years. However, they feel it ok to push this vaccine on us

> with just a minimal amount of testing. The military is being forced once

> again to take this vaccine and will get it before the general population.

> Hence our military members will once again be guinea pigs.

>

> I know I have gotten off topic a bit but I am damn mad at the way our

> government is taking our freedoms away so someone can make a buck. That is

> all I am going to say.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok everybody...I believe we are all supposed to be talking about our RA and

sometimes off topic stuff...enough arguing about right and wrong about these

vaccines and acting like some members are dumb and not taking care of themselves

or their children if they don't get vaccinated!

If you want to argue about vaccinations you should join one of the many

vaccinations groups because this is taking up too much of our precious " family "

oriented RA topic time and our caring community! So please lets get back to

talking to and about each other and not these vaccinations...I feel like I've

lost my RA friends and information and joined a vaccination group!

Carla

[Guest guest]

Chill friends, chill! We all our so passionate about our feelings, our views,

our experiences and other things!  But gosh everyone in this group goes thru the

same crap maybe just a different day............Let's not forget the purpose of

this group.....................no matter the differences we have, we ALL have

simularities and that is what we all come together for.....love and

support...........No matter what, we always love and respect one another -

despite any race, religion, views.or just having one hell of a

day.......!!!......

 

Please my friend, Dennis, we all have to bring ourselves together to beat our

issues the best we can....but together as the loving friends that we are!!! You

have a blessed night friend............

Love you in eastTexas!!!!!!!!!!!!!   (come on.)..........smile buddy!!!!!!  

))))))

 

in SC

>

>

> I am not getting this vaccine nor am I getting the regular flu shot and I

> am not having my kids get it. If our area forces us to have the kids

> vaccinated then I am claiming a religious exemption. If I am not allowed to

> do that then I will be forced to homeschool.

>

> My question with all this is what ever happen to our constitution? What

> about our freedoms and our right to decide what is best for us and our

> children.

>

> On another note, the FDA will not allow new drugs on the market without

> being tested for years. However, they feel it ok to push this vaccine on us

> with just a minimal amount of testing. The military is being forced once

> again to take this vaccine and will get it before the general population.

> Hence our military members will once again be guinea pigs.

>

> I know I have gotten off topic a bit but I am damn mad at the way our

> government is taking our freedoms away so someone can make a buck. That is

> all I am going to say.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dennis,

Your opinion is your and mine is mine. I'm not knocking yours so don't knock

mine.

With that being said, my husband is currently fighting for your freedom to voice

YOUR opinion! Nuff Said!

>

> >

> >

> > I am not getting this vaccine nor am I getting the regular flu shot and I

> > am not having my kids get it. If our area forces us to have the kids

> > vaccinated then I am claiming a religious exemption. If I am not allowed to

> > do that then I will be forced to homeschool.

> >

> > My question with all this is what ever happen to our constitution? What

> > about our freedoms and our right to decide what is best for us and our

> > children.

> >

> > On another note, the FDA will not allow new drugs on the market without

> > being tested for years. However, they feel it ok to push this vaccine on us

> > with just a minimal amount of testing. The military is being forced once

> > again to take this vaccine and will get it before the general population.

> > Hence our military members will once again be guinea pigs.

> >

> > I know I have gotten off topic a bit but I am damn mad at the way our

> > government is taking our freedoms away so someone can make a buck. That is

> > all I am going to say.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree . Just because I am passionate about something for myself and my

family doesn't mean that I am going to judge anyone else or have hatred towards

anyone because they feel differently. Just voicing my opinion. However, I don't

feel I should be attacked either. I just dont' understand the need for it.

>

> >

> >

> > I am not getting this vaccine nor am I getting the regular flu shot and I

> > am not having my kids get it. If our area forces us to have the kids

> > vaccinated then I am claiming a religious exemption. If I am not allowed to

> > do that then I will be forced to homeschool.

> >

> > My question with all this is what ever happen to our constitution? What

> > about our freedoms and our right to decide what is best for us and our

> > children.

> >

> > On another note, the FDA will not allow new drugs on the market without

> > being tested for years. However, they feel it ok to push this vaccine on us

> > with just a minimal amount of testing. The military is being forced once

> > again to take this vaccine and will get it before the general population.

> > Hence our military members will once again be guinea pigs.

> >

> > I know I have gotten off topic a bit but I am damn mad at the way our

> > government is taking our freedoms away so someone can make a buck. That is

> > all I am going to say.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

and OKD,

I am as passionate about this as you and my son came back from Afghanistan at

easter, the military are being used yet again to " try out " these blasted

vaccines. They can't go against orders unlike you or me. I will gladly go to

prison for standing up for MY right to put in MY body what I choose.

If you were born before 1976 you will have natural immunity to swine flu, as

that was the last pandemic, so why all the fuss.. FACT...more people died of the

vaccine then than the actual flu. WHY are doctors being told to look out for

serious Neurological signs and symptoms in the vaccinated, WHY are the vast

majority of doctors in the UK not going to have the vaccine themselves. WHY is

Jane Burgermeister taking Baxter to court (Baxter being the manufacturer of the

vaccine). WHY all the fuss about this flu when far greater numbers have died and

had far more complications from seasonal flu year after year.

These are some of the reasons why I will be declining my government's kind offer

and why I have told my prime minister where he can stick it. I had lab tested

swine flu recently and couldn't believe how mild it was compared to seasonal

flu. So why are people being frightened and coerced into taking a vaccine.

If they make this vaccine compulsory, then if someone tries to give it to me

against my will, that is assault and will find themselves in court. Simple as.

We all have the right to say yay or nay, by me not being vaccinated that doesn't

affect you in any way shape or form if you are vaccinated, so why all the anger?

What a crazy mixed up world we live in.

Viruses cannot live long in an alkaline host, so try and keep away from acidic

foods, and get at least 10 minutes every day outside to get your Vit D fix.

I pray that our military come home soon and stay home.

Love and hugs

________________________________

From: ktandtm <ktandtm@...>

Sent: Sunday, 20 September, 2009 6:11:39

Subject: [ ] Re: INFO - Q & A: 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine

I agree . Just because I am passionate about something for myself and my

family doesn't mean that I am going to judge anyone else or have hatred towards

anyone because they feel differently. Just voicing my opinion. However, I don't

feel I should be attacked either. I just dont' understand the need for it.

>

> >

> >

> > I am not getting this vaccine nor am I getting the regular flu shot and I

> > am not having my kids get it.. If our area forces us to have the kids

> > vaccinated then I am claiming a religious exemption. If I am not allowed to

> > do that then I will be forced to homeschool.

> >

> > My question with all this is what ever happen to our constitution? What

> > about our freedoms and our right to decide what is best for us and our

> > children.

> >

> > On another note, the FDA will not allow new drugs on the market without

> > being tested for years. However, they feel it ok to push this vaccine on us

> > with just a minimal amount of testing. The military is being forced once

> > again to take this vaccine and will get it before the general population.

> > Hence our military members will once again be guinea pigs.

> >

> > I know I have gotten off topic a bit but I am damn mad at the way our

> > government is taking our freedoms away so someone can make a buck. That is

> > all I am going to say.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

________________________________

From: OKD <Cofade_2000@...>

Sent: Friday, 18 September, 2009 21:51:16

Subject: [ ] Re: INFO - Q & A: 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine

Hi OKD,

I think most people would be allergic to Thimerisal ( mercury ) don't you?

Why not get together with others who are against the vaccine and threaten to sue

your employer with assault.

Also ask your rheumy and/or employer to provide absolute proof and a guarantee

you will not be harmed by the vaccine. Under Health and Safety at work law in

the uk, every employer has the duty to provide each and every employee with a

safe working environment, free from chemical hazzards amongst other things. I

know you are not in the uk but look for legislation in your area. Good luck.

Love and hugs

sarah

:

The irritating rub of this whole exchange of ours is that here in New York

State, if you are a person working in a hospital, no matter what your position

is, whether direct patient care or not, you will be relieved of duty, without

pay, if you dont take the H1N1 vaccine. If after two weeks, you still refuse,

you will be dismissed, oh an they threw in they would fight against your getting

unemployment, being fired for gross insubordination. UNLESS your physician

states that it is contraindicated for your condition. The 4 conditions of that

are: allergy to eggs, allergy to Thimerisal, Severe adverse reaction to a

previous flu vaccine, or History of Guillen-Barre Syndrome.

So whether I want it or not, if I want to keep my job, I am stuck. If my rheumy

says there is no contraindication, I am stuck (whatever may happen to me be

damned).

And that my friends is called...well, i can't say it here.

OKD

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Have you had a look at this website it's similar to Dr Mercola's.

www.naturalnews.com

sarah

________________________________

From: ktandtm <ktandtm@...>

Sent: Sunday, 20 September, 2009 6:11:39

Subject: [ ] Re: INFO - Q & A: 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine

I agree . Just because I am passionate about something for myself and my

family doesn't mean that I am going to judge anyone else or have hatred towards

anyone because they feel differently. Just voicing my opinion. However, I don't

feel I should be attacked either. I just dont' understand the need for it.

>

> >

> >

> > I am not getting this vaccine nor am I getting the regular flu shot and I

> > am not having my kids get it. If our area forces us to have the kids

> > vaccinated then I am claiming a religious exemption. If I am not allowed to

> > do that then I will be forced to homeschool.

> >

> > My question with all this is what ever happen to our constitution? What

> > about our freedoms and our right to decide what is best for us and our

> > children.

> >

> > On another note, the FDA will not allow new drugs on the market without

> > being tested for years. However, they feel it ok to push this vaccine on us

> > with just a minimal amount of testing. The military is being forced once

> > again to take this vaccine and will get it before the general population.

> > Hence our military members will once again be guinea pigs.

> >

> > I know I have gotten off topic a bit but I am damn mad at the way our

> > government is taking our freedoms away so someone can make a buck. That is

> > all I am going to say.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

I have not read this entire thread because I am too sick to be on the

computer for any length of time. All I will say is that I have H1N1 right

now. If I had known how bad it would be, I would have gotten the shot.

This flu is really, really bad. I could not get the anti-viral because the

hospital told me I would have to be admitted to get the treatment. Since I

am not currently dying from it, they cannot admit me.

* 16

New

< /members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZG5ncm1lBF9TA

zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwMTQ3OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjE2MTAEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm1ic

nMEc3RpbWUDMTI1MzQ0NjI4Mg--> Members

Visit

< ;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYmx2MDZnBF9TAzk3MzU5N

zE0BGdycElkAzEwMTQ3OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjE2MTAEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZ

QMxMjUzNDQ2Mjgy> Your Group

Ads on

Learn

<http://us.ard./SIG=14kq2a6hn/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=

grphealth/S=1705061610:NC/Y=/EXP=1253453483/L=/B=lkhaMkPDhCg-/J=1253446

283030988/K=e2iEiTH8j5qqaHk7hGAFsA/A=3848643/R=0/SIG=131q47hek/*http:/search

marketing./arp/srchv2.php?o=US2005 & cmp= & ctv=Groups4 & s=Y & s2= & s3

= & b=50> more now.

Reach customers

searching for you.

Support Group

Lose

<http://us.ard./SIG=14l838nrv/M=493064.12016300.12445692.11323196/D

=grphealth/S=1705061610:NC/Y=/EXP=1253453483/L=/B=l0haMkPDhCg-/J=125344

6283030988/K=e2iEiTH8j5qqaHk7hGAFsA/A=5597441/R=0/SIG=11kad247r/*http:/advis

ion.webevents./specialkgroup/> lbs together

Share your weight-

loss successes.

Cat

<http://us.ard./SIG=14k9hfgm9/M=493064.12016263.12445670.8674578/D=

grphealth/S=1705061610:NC/Y=/EXP=1253453483/L=/B=mEhaMkPDhCg-/J=1253446

283030988/K=e2iEiTH8j5qqaHk7hGAFsA/A=4836036/R=0/SIG=11olbte0b/*http:/advisi

on.webevents./catzone/index.html> Zone

Connect w/ others

who love cats.

..

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=101478/grpspId=1705061610/msgId=

132851/stime=1253446282/nc1=3848643/nc2=5597441/nc3=4836036>

[Guest guest]

So sorry to hear this, ! I hope you will be feeling better very

soon. Please let us know.

Not an MD

On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Lalis <drack2@...> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,

>

>

>

> I have not read this entire thread because I am too sick to be on the

> computer for any length of time.  All I will say is that I have H1N1 right

> now.  If I had known how bad it would be, I would have gotten the shot.

> This flu is really, really bad.  I could not get the anti-viral because the

> hospital told me I would have to be admitted to get the treatment.  Since I

> am not currently dying from it, they cannot admit me.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi : I was sorry to read that you are so sick with the flu. I

pray you will be better soon. It is awful to be that sick.

Wishing you much better days ahead.

Hugs,

Barbara

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

>

>

> I have not read this entire thread because I am too sick to be on the

> computer for any length of time. All I will say is that I have H1N1

right

> now. If I had known how bad it would be, I would have gotten the shot.

> This flu is really, really bad. I could not get the anti-viral because

the

> hospital told me I would have to be admitted to get the treatment.

Since I

> am not currently dying from it, they cannot admit me.

>

>

>

>

>