vaccines

June 4, 2007

Hi. My husband and I were both active duty during Desert Storm and both had the anthrax shots. As well as countless "others". He also had to get the new "batch" for Iraq last year. We were also given "pills" to only take when directed. We were to take 1/ day to "build up a resistance" to a chemical attack. My hubby took them,,,I didn't. I kept them and still have them packed away. ha. Anyway,,,,,,,I wasn't pregnant at the time of the vaccinations, but our 1st born (born 4 years later (after trying for years and 2 miscarriages) with AS/ADHD. None of our other kids have AS,,,,,but they have hyperactivity/anxiety. Don't know about the "link" with the military vaccines,,,,,but I sure do question childhood vaccines. RobinAda Akers <adamakers_1@...> wrote: Sharon, You make a good point. Shots can be a cause I truly believe this. They are now saying that active duty members who receive the Anthrax shot could be a link. My husband gets this shot every 6 months. However, here's the real kicker. I was active duty also and received those shots. I was asked if I was pregnant and I took a PT the night before and it was negative. I was probably 2-4 days pregnant and flipped out because I had an anthrax shot and was afraid at that time what will this do to my kid. You have wonder? Now my kid is mildly Autistic and we had the genetic testing done

and it came out negative. So there is a reason for it and I beleive what I thought from the beginning it's the Antrhrax shot. It's not an immediate threat honestly it's not a threat at all in third world countries. I truly beleive they shouldn't be giving that shot at all especially women since they can carry a child. Of course with it being both my husband and I we have been given everything you can imagine as far as immunizations and who knows what else. So we've decided to stop at one. We don't want another to suffer. Ada Ticklesharon mitchell <smitch458 > wrote: Ana, Hi, I'm Sharon. My son, 16, who is add and an aspie does not get the P (pertussin) part of the vaccine anymore. When he was 2 months old he landed in the hospital about 4 or 5 days after the

shot. He was very listless and they had to do a spinal tap. They thought he had spinal meningitis. Thank God he didn't. They think it may have been viral meningitis, but scary non the less. After the 4 day stint in the hospital, they said he should'nt get the pertussin part of the shot anymore; they are not sure if thats what made him ill, but just in case it was, why chance it? He has never had a problem with school about not being immunized with the pertussin (which is for whooping cough). But I often wonder if that's why he is an aspie and add today? Was it the shot? Who knows? So talk to your doctor. I'm sure there is a way you can get around this. Good luck Sharon, kristin albea <stepfiesgirl > wrote: Thank you very much, it has been such a fight just to get my son into this special education class. April Sunderlin <aprilsunderlin26 > wrote: My son is high functioning/mild Autistic. He attends special education classes a t school and has since pre-k. So I would be more than happy to help in any way I can. Just let me know!!! April Dillon <lnd72278 > wrote: I need people who have children in special education.I would like anyone... I am having trouble getting anyresponces.Thanks --- April Sunderlin <aprilsunderlin26 >wrote:> who are you refering too!!! I just want to make sure> that you interview the correct person! I don't mind> helping you if you need me too!> thanks, > April> > Dillon <lnd72278 > wrote:> Hi, I am a college student and would like> to interview> you for a paper I have to do. If you would be> willing> to answer a few questions I would be very> appreciative. How do you feel about the way your> school system addresses the needs of your son? What> could they do better? what do you think you son's> teachers need to know about him? Thank you for your> time and help. > --- April Sunderlin <aprilsunderlin26 >>

wrote:> > > I'm not sure what your rights are but, let me know> > how it goes! Good Luck!!!!!> > April> > > > tutrix2000 <anaruthlarios > wrote:> > Hi! My 11 yo aspie is being required to> > have a boost shot of DTaP. He > > has read a lot about vaccines and autism and he> > truly believes he was > > affected by vaccines. I do not want to give him> the> > boost shot either, > > I am convinced about that. I will go to the> > pediatrician today to see > > if he can give me a letter of exception for him.> He> > had 5 doses before > > he turned 5, so this would be his sixth dose. I am> > in Fairfax County > > in Virginia and just last year they changed the> rule> > and now all kids > >

entering 6th grade that have not received a dose> in> > 5 years, have to > > get one in order to attend 6th grade. Does anybody> > know which are my > > rights and my choices regarding vaccines? Is there> > anything else I > > could do if my doctor refuses to give me the> letter?> > > > > > Ana> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Shape in your own image. Join our Network> > Research Panel today!> >__________________________________________________________> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! -> their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at > Games.> http://sims./ > > >

> > > > ---------------------------------> Need Mail bonding?> Go to the Q & A for great tips from > Answers users.__________________________________________________________Building a website is a piece of cake. Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.http://smallbusiness./webhosting Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search. Don't be flakey. Get for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more.

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June 4, 2007

I got my military vaccines years ago, before I had any kids -- right

after, I had a late-pregnancy (2nd trimester) miscarriage, then two

healthy but pre-term pregnancies. It's my 3rd and 4th children that

have problems, years later. I blame the regular vaccines, not the

military, but you never do know.

and/or Robin Lemke wrote:

Hi.

My husband and I were both active duty during Desert Storm and

both had the anthrax shots. As well as countless "others". He also

had to get the new "batch" for Iraq last year.

We were also given "pills" to only take when directed. We were

to take 1/ day to "build up a resistance" to a chemical attack. My

hubby took them,,,I didn't. I kept them and still have them packed

away. ha.

Anyway,,,,,,,I wasn't pregnant at the time of the

vaccinations, but our 1st born (born 4 years later (after trying for

years and 2 miscarriages) with AS/ADHD.

None of our other kids have AS,,,,,but they have hyperactivity/anxiety.

Don't know about the "link" with the military vaccines,,,,,but

I sure do question childhood vaccines.

Robin

Ada Akers <adamakers_1 > wrote:

Sharon,

You make a good point. Shots can be a cause I truly believe

this. They are now saying that active duty members who receive the

Anthrax shot could be a link. My husband gets this shot every 6 months.

However, here's the real kicker. I was active duty also and received

those shots. I was asked if I was pregnant and I took a PT the night

before and it was negative. I was probably 2-4 days pregnant and

flipped out because I had an anthrax shot and was afraid at that time

what will this do to my kid. You have wonder? Now my kid is mildly

Autistic and we had the genetic testing done and it came out negative.

So there is a reason for it and I beleive what I thought from the

beginning it's the Antrhrax shot. It's not an immediate threat honestly

it's not a threat at all in third world countries. I truly beleive they

shouldn't be giving that shot at all especially women since they can

carry a child. Of course with it being both my husband and I we have

been given everything you can imagine as far as immunizations and who

knows what else. So we've decided to stop at one. We don't want another

to suffer.

Ada Tickle

sharon mitchell <smitch458 >

wrote:

Ana,

Hi, I'm Sharon. My son, 16, who is add and an aspie does not

get the P (pertussin) part of the vaccine anymore. When he was 2 months

old he landed in the hospital about 4 or 5 days after the shot. He was

very listless and they had to do a spinal tap. They thought he had

spinal meningitis. Thank God he didn't. They think it may have been

viral meningitis, but scary non the less. After the 4 day stint in the

hospital, they said he should'nt get the pertussin part of the shot

anymore; they are not sure if thats what made him ill, but just in case

it was, why chance it? He has never had a problem with school about not

being immunized with the pertussin (which is for whooping cough).

But I often wonder if that's why he is an aspie and add

today? Was it the shot?

Who knows? So talk to your doctor. I'm sure there is a way

you can get around this.

Good luck

Sharon,

kristin albea <stepfiesgirl >

wrote:

Thank you very much, it has been such a fight just to get

my son into this special education class.

April Sunderlin <aprilsunderlin26 >

wrote:

My son is high functioning/mild Autistic. He

attends special education classes a t school and has since pre-k. So I

would be more than happy to help in any way I can. Just let me know!!!

April

Dillon <lnd72278 >

wrote:

I need people who have children in special education.

I would like anyone... I am having trouble getting any

responces.

Thanks

--- April Sunderlin <aprilsunderlin26 >

wrote:

> who are you refering too!!! I just want to make sure

> that you interview the correct person! I don't mind

> helping you if you need me too!

> thanks,

> April

>

> Dillon <lnd72278 >

wrote:

> Hi, I am a college student and would like

> to interview

> you for a paper I have to do. If you would be

> willing

> to answer a few questions I would be very

> appreciative. How do you feel about the way your

> school system addresses the needs of your son? What

> could they do better? what do you think you son's

> teachers need to know about him? Thank you for your

> time and help.

> --- April Sunderlin <aprilsunderlin26 >

> wrote:

>

> > I'm not sure what your rights are but, let me know

> > how it goes! Good Luck!!!!!

> > April

> >

> > tutrix2000 <anaruthlarios >

wrote:

> > Hi! My 11 yo aspie is being required to

> > have a boost shot of DTaP. He

> > has read a lot about vaccines and autism and he

> > truly believes he was

> > affected by vaccines. I do not want to give him

> the

> > boost shot either,

> > I am convinced about that. I will go to the

> > pediatrician today to see

> > if he can give me a letter of exception for him.

> He

> > had 5 doses before

> > he turned 5, so this would be his sixth dose. I am

> > in Fairfax County

> > in Virginia and just last year they changed the

> rule

> > and now all kids

> > entering 6th grade that have not received a dose

> in

> > 5 years, have to

> > get one in order to attend 6th grade. Does anybody

> > know which are my

> > rights and my choices regarding vaccines? Is there

> > anything else I

> > could do if my doctor refuses to give me the

> letter?

> >

> > Ana

> >

June 4, 2007

> Don't know about the " link " with the military vaccines,,,,,but I sure do

question

childhood vaccines.

I've found this possibility very interesting, although I'm quite sure it doesn't

apply to my

grandson (now 2 3/4, HFA). Although his more obvious symptoms (slow speech

development, head-banging etc.) didn't show up until around age 2, we now

realize he

showed definite symptoms well before his first birthday - and thus before his

first

vaccination. Example: He refused to make eye contact with others besides his

parents

(closed his eyes or kept his face turned up to the ceiling) and immediately

cried whenever

anyone except his parents walked into the house.

There seem to be two extremes on the Internet regarding this topic. One seems to

be

convinced beyond a doubt. But, the Center for Disease Control, Institute of

Medicine and

others find no link:

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/autism-mmr-facts.htm

http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3793/4705/20155.aspx

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/cadata.htm

In the last link (California study), the percentages just didn't match (MMR &

autism rates):

***

The study looked at the percent of children born in 1980-1994 and enrolled in

California

kindergartens who received the MMR vaccine, by age when the vaccine was

received, and

the number of autism cases enrolled in the California Department of

Developmental

Services regional service center system.

The number of autism cases in California increased greatly, over 373%, compared

to only a

small 14% increase in MMR vaccine coverage in children for the same time period.

If there were a relationship between MMR vaccination and autism, one would

expect the

shape of the MMR immunization level curve to be very similar to the shape of the

autism

case number curve. This is not the case, thus the analysis in this study does

not support

any link between MMR vaccination and autism.

***

I intend to keep an open mind, but must look to other possibilities for causal

effect in our

grandson's case.

Jo Anne

June 5, 2007

Thing is, the MMR is just one facet of the concern. The other is the

thimerasol in the vaccines. The load went up, the autism rates went up.

There are some great books out there about it, including Kirby's

Evidence of Harm. It's scary when you learn how much an average child

gets injected, especially if he/she was born around 1999-2000.

The CDC's best interest is for vaccines to not be blamed -- think of

what would happen if all vaccines were found to be a problem and

vaccines are mandatory. The flu shot still has thimerasol in it today.

yooperjo wrote:

> Don't know about the "link" with the military vaccines,,,,,but

I sure do question

childhood vaccines.

I've found this possibility very interesting, although I'm quite sure

it doesn't apply to my

grandson (now 2 3/4, HFA). Although his more obvious symptoms (slow

speech

development, head-banging etc.) didn't show up until around age 2, we

now realize he

showed definite symptoms well before his first birthday - and thus

before his first

vaccination. Example: He refused to make eye contact with others

besides his parents

(closed his eyes or kept his face turned up to the ceiling) and

immediately cried whenever

anyone except his parents walked into the house.

There seem to be two extremes on the Internet regarding this topic. One

seems to be

convinced beyond a doubt. But, the Center for Disease Control,

Institute of Medicine and

others find no link:

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/autism-mmr-facts.htm

http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3793/4705/20155.aspx

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/cadata.htm

In the last link (California study), the percentages just didn't match

(MMR & autism rates):

***

The study looked at the percent of children born in 1980-1994 and

enrolled in California

kindergartens who received the MMR vaccine, by age when the vaccine was

received, and

the number of autism cases enrolled in the California Department of

Developmental

Services regional service center system.

The number of autism cases in California increased greatly, over 373%,

compared to only a

small 14% increase in MMR vaccine coverage in children for the same

time period.

If there were a relationship between MMR vaccination and autism, one

would expect the

shape of the MMR immunization level curve to be very similar to the

shape of the autism

case number curve. This is not the case, thus the analysis in this

study does not support

any link between MMR vaccination and autism.

***

I intend to keep an open mind, but must look to other possibilities for

causal effect in our

grandson's case.

Jo Anne

June 5, 2007

I have been told that unless I take the doctor's letter stating that

he has a medical reason not to take the shot or if I fill up a

religious waiver paper work, I would have to give him the shot or he

will not be allowed to go to 6th grade. I wish I could be the only

one involved in this issue. I believed in vaccines when my child was

born, I changed my mind. I have pictures of my son making eye

contact when he was five months old. I have videos of him laughing

and having a great time going up and down on his tricycle. It all

changed all of a sudden, and all his energy left and I was left with

a child who was banging his head on the wall and would not follow

directions for the sake of his life. He is a wonderful speller and

gets the straight A's in everything but PE.

There are a lot of talks about an outbreak of pertusis in Northern

Virginia, and I do care about his health. I researched on the

possible vaccines and there are a few out there that are still

prepared with thimerosal. A few of them are not and are considered

safe. I still don't want to give it to him. I certainly don't know

what to do. Thank you all for your responses.

Ana, mom to

> Hi! My 11 yo aspie is being required to have a boost shot of

DTaP. He

> has read a lot about vaccines and autism and he truly believes he

was

> affected by vaccines. I do not want to give him the boost shot

either,

> I am convinced about that. I will go to the pediatrician today to

see

> if he can give me a letter of exception for him. He had 5 doses

before

> he turned 5, so this would be his sixth dose. I am in Fairfax

County

> in Virginia and just last year they changed the rule and now all

kids

> entering 6th grade that have not received a dose in 5 years, have

to

> get one in order to attend 6th grade. Does anybody know which are

my

> rights and my choices regarding vaccines? Is there anything else I

> could do if my doctor refuses to give me the letter?

>

> Ana

>

> ---------------------------------

> Shape in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel

today!

>

> ---------------------------------

> Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate

> in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A.

>

June 6, 2007

Can you google "vaccines" or "vaccines and autism" or something like "support group no vaccines" ????? I bet there are bunches of groups out there who agree and could give you 1st-hand experience and advice. Good luck to you. Robintutrix2000 <anaruthlarios@...> wrote: I have been told that unless I take the doctor's letter stating that he has a medical reason not to take the shot or if I fill up a religious waiver paper work, I would have to give him the shot or he

will not be allowed to go to 6th grade. I wish I could be the only one involved in this issue. I believed in vaccines when my child was born, I changed my mind. I have pictures of my son making eye contact when he was five months old. I have videos of him laughing and having a great time going up and down on his tricycle. It all changed all of a sudden, and all his energy left and I was left with a child who was banging his head on the wall and would not follow directions for the sake of his life. He is a wonderful speller and gets the straight A's in everything but PE.There are a lot of talks about an outbreak of pertusis in Northern Virginia, and I do care about his health. I researched on the possible vaccines and there are a few out there that are still prepared with thimerosal. A few of them are not and are considered safe. I still don't want to give it to him. I certainly don't know what to do. Thank you all

for your responses.Ana, mom to > Hi! My 11 yo aspie is being required to have a boost shot of DTaP. He > has read a lot about vaccines and autism and he truly believes he was

> affected by vaccines. I do not want to give him the boost shot either, > I am convinced about that. I will go to the pediatrician today to see > if he can give me a letter of exception for him. He had 5 doses before > he turned 5, so this would be his sixth dose. I am in Fairfax County > in Virginia and just last year they changed the rule and now all kids > entering 6th grade that have not received a dose in 5 years, have to > get one in order to attend 6th grade. Does anybody know which are my > rights and my choices regarding vaccines? Is there anything else I > could do if my doctor refuses to give me the letter? > > Ana> > > > > > ---------------------------------> Shape in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! > > > > >

---------------------------------> Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate> in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A.>

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June 6, 2007

A religious vaccination is simple to write.

First let me start this off with this, a copied joke from another

website:

You know this one: A priest is hanging on for dear life to the church

steeple as the flood waters rise. He prays to God, " Help me, oh God!

I have no doubt you will save me! "

A boat rows by and offers the priest a spot but he waves them

off. " Save someone else. God will save me! I have no doubt! "

In that there is a 'rule of three' that all jokes have in common, I

believe a helicopter comes by and some other thing, but the priests

tells them both, " Save someone else! I have no doubt God will save

me. "

You would think that God would save him, considering the shortage of

priests, but the priest drowns. In heaven, the priest says to

God, " God, what happened. I never doubted that you would save me but

you didn't! "

And God says, " Good heavens, man, I sent you a boat, a helicopter and

some other thing and you sent them away! "

If in your heart you feel strongly about this, it is possible that

this is the way God is talking to you. A religious vaccination

waiver does not mean the building you are in has to have an anti-

vaccination policy. It simply means that you feel that if you

vaccinate you are violating something spiritual. When I wrote mine,

I said that I felt by bypassing the natural way these diseases are

passed - the mucousal system - and instead injecting them into the

blood system - a completely different immune system set-up - that we

were violating a system God had designed.

>

> I have been told that unless I take the doctor's letter stating

that

> he has a medical reason not to take the shot or if I fill up a

> religious waiver paper work, I would have to give him the shot or

he

> will not be allowed to go to 6th grade. I wish I could be the only

> one involved in this issue. I believed in vaccines when my child

was

> born, I changed my mind. I have pictures of my son making eye

> contact when he was five months old. I have videos of him laughing

> and having a great time going up and down on his tricycle. It all

> changed all of a sudden, and all his energy left and I was left

with

> a child who was banging his head on the wall and would not follow

> directions for the sake of his life. He is a wonderful speller and

> gets the straight A's in everything but PE.

> There are a lot of talks about an outbreak of pertusis in Northern

> Virginia, and I do care about his health. I researched on the

> possible vaccines and there are a few out there that are still

> prepared with thimerosal. A few of them are not and are considered

> safe. I still don't want to give it to him. I certainly don't know

> what to do. Thank you all for your responses.

>

> Ana, mom to

June 6, 2007

>

MMR is not a military vaccine its measles mumps rubella. NOT morale

welfare and rec.

> Don't know about the " link " with the military vaccines,,,,,but I

sure do question

> childhood vaccines.

>

> I've found this possibility very interesting, although I'm quite

sure it doesn't apply to my

> grandson (now 2 3/4, HFA). Although his more obvious symptoms (slow

speech

> development, head-banging etc.) didn't show up until around age 2,

we now realize he

> showed definite symptoms well before his first birthday - and thus

before his first

> vaccination. Example: He refused to make eye contact with others

besides his parents

> (closed his eyes or kept his face turned up to the ceiling) and

immediately cried whenever

> anyone except his parents walked into the house.

>

> There seem to be two extremes on the Internet regarding this topic.

One seems to be

> convinced beyond a doubt. But, the Center for Disease Control,

Institute of Medicine and

> others find no link:

> http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/autism-mmr-facts.htm

> http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3793/4705/20155.aspx

> http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/cadata.htm

>

> In the last link (California study), the percentages just didn't

match (MMR & autism rates):

>

> ***

> The study looked at the percent of children born in 1980-1994 and

enrolled in California

> kindergartens who received the MMR vaccine, by age when the vaccine

was received, and

> the number of autism cases enrolled in the California Department of

Developmental

> Services regional service center system.

>

> The number of autism cases in California increased greatly, over

373%, compared to only a

> small 14% increase in MMR vaccine coverage in children for the same

time period.

>

> If there were a relationship between MMR vaccination and autism,

one would expect the

> shape of the MMR immunization level curve to be very similar to the

shape of the autism

> case number curve. This is not the case, thus the analysis in this

study does not support

> any link between MMR vaccination and autism.

>

> ***

>

> I intend to keep an open mind, but must look to other possibilities

for causal effect in our

> grandson's case.

>

> Jo Anne

>

June 8, 2007

Well Liz, This is my personal experience. I am a former research

scientist in clinical trials. What I find odd is that no doctor or

hospital ever offered us any side effect information or how to report

a serious adverse event. The hospital my son was born out

automatically gave him Vit K (we did not have circumscision), Hep B,

and HIB witout our permission. We did not want any of these and

apparently as parents we were not entitled to any prior info except

to say we agreed to the hospital policy by admission. We had wanted

to hold off ourselves because I had a very serious reaction to a

third (yes third,) MMR vaccine as an adult. It appears as if those

of us vaccinated prior to 1967 were given a 'killed' vaccine that was

no longer effective and many folks that had two MMRs were coming down

with Mumps and Measles. So just the vaccine alone does not protect

you as it works on building antibodies for immunities but does not

raise immunity per say. So off I went, had my vaccine and then I

could not use my left arm for a week, no one discussed it with me and

my doctor did not seem worried. I read later it needs to be

documented via the FDA as a serious event. Skipping later - we do no

vaccines other than the ones our son was given, thinking we would

wait until he could at least tell us what was wrong (we are still

waiting ) and we did not do the MMR or any other vaccine that is

supposed to give Autism or some disorder and we feed him organic

foods and breastfed him for a year and he still came down with a

disorder!

One thing to look at is that populations of people exclusively

breastfed were never studied against those formula fed and therefor a

properly controlled study is not really achieved. There does not

appear to be anyone I know unvaccinated but breastfed that is ever

sicker than the average common cold and all of them have traveled the

world. We read 'Evidence of Harm' my Dr. Kirby and decided not to

vaccinate our daugther at all. In that book he points out many of

the studies that had SAE were not discussed or given to the FDA.

Again, being a lactivist, I feel that our bodies are designed to get

immunity naturally. I now teach natural childbirth and breastfeeding

and can sleep at night without the worry of side effects via

vaccines. That is our personal choice and I wanted to share that

hippy chick mentality.

April

June 8, 2007

I know the whole vaccine thing has been thrown around before. Bottom

line, I see both sides of the argument. No vaccines = more disease. --

- In , Liz <lizlaw@...>

Hey Liz... " No vaccines = more disease " NOT TRUE... this is the crap

dished out to scare us.

I just want to applaud the parents on this list. 1 year ago when I

started down this journey, this tone of this thread would have been

so different. Way Hoo!!!

FYI.. Vaccines are ABSOLUTELY DANGEROUS as they are today. If I

could get just one " re do " in life, I would NOT vaccinate.

But, because I did... I must go now and shove yet another vitamin

cocktail into my 4 year olds mouth, followed by the stinky feet

cream/chelator on his feet, etc, etc, etc...

June 8, 2007

Thing is, even if you want to go that route, how do you deal with school?

wrote:

>I know the whole vaccine thing has been thrown around before. Bottom

>line, I see both sides of the argument. No vaccines = more disease. --

>- In , Liz <lizlaw@...>

>

>Hey Liz... " No vaccines = more disease " NOT TRUE... this is the crap

>dished out to scare us.

>

>I just want to applaud the parents on this list. 1 year ago when I

>started down this journey, this tone of this thread would have been

>so different. Way Hoo!!!

>

>FYI.. Vaccines are ABSOLUTELY DANGEROUS as they are today. If I

>could get just one " re do " in life, I would NOT vaccinate.

>

>But, because I did... I must go now and shove yet another vitamin

>cocktail into my 4 year olds mouth, followed by the stinky feet

>cream/chelator on his feet, etc, etc, etc...

>

June 8, 2007

I am going to read the book, am intrigued by your story, but once again,

how do you deal with school?

April Larsen wrote:

>Well Liz, This is my personal experience. I am a former research

>scientist in clinical trials. What I find odd is that no doctor or

>hospital ever offered us any side effect information or how to report

>a serious adverse event. The hospital my son was born out

>automatically gave him Vit K (we did not have circumscision), Hep B,

>and HIB witout our permission. We did not want any of these and

>apparently as parents we were not entitled to any prior info except

>to say we agreed to the hospital policy by admission. We had wanted

>to hold off ourselves because I had a very serious reaction to a

>third (yes third,) MMR vaccine as an adult. It appears as if those

>of us vaccinated prior to 1967 were given a 'killed' vaccine that was

>no longer effective and many folks that had two MMRs were coming down

>with Mumps and Measles. So just the vaccine alone does not protect

>you as it works on building antibodies for immunities but does not

>raise immunity per say. So off I went, had my vaccine and then I

>could not use my left arm for a week, no one discussed it with me and

>my doctor did not seem worried. I read later it needs to be

>documented via the FDA as a serious event. Skipping later - we do no

>vaccines other than the ones our son was given, thinking we would

>wait until he could at least tell us what was wrong (we are still

>waiting ) and we did not do the MMR or any other vaccine that is

>supposed to give Autism or some disorder and we feed him organic

>foods and breastfed him for a year and he still came down with a

>disorder!

>

>One thing to look at is that populations of people exclusively

>breastfed were never studied against those formula fed and therefor a

>properly controlled study is not really achieved. There does not

>appear to be anyone I know unvaccinated but breastfed that is ever

>sicker than the average common cold and all of them have traveled the

>world. We read 'Evidence of Harm' my Dr. Kirby and decided not to

>vaccinate our daugther at all. In that book he points out many of

>the studies that had SAE were not discussed or given to the FDA.

>Again, being a lactivist, I feel that our bodies are designed to get

>immunity naturally. I now teach natural childbirth and breastfeeding

>and can sleep at night without the worry of side effects via

>vaccines. That is our personal choice and I wanted to share that

>hippy chick mentality.

>April

>

June 8, 2007

So far, we have vaccinated our kids (although we may not do the MMR

with #4), but I agree that breastfeeding can be fantastic for the

immunity. Is it true that if mom has had the vaccinations, baby will

have some protection from her antibodies in the milk? My daughter,

who nursed until 2-1/2 has only had one prescription during her eight

years -- for pink eye! (And that was probably unnecessary, as most

pink eye is viral...) I don't give all the credit to breastfeeding,

but it certainly is remarkable.

in NJ

>

> Well Liz, This is my personal experience. I am a former research

> scientist in clinical trials. What I find odd is that no doctor or

> hospital ever offered us any side effect information or how to

report

> a serious adverse event. The hospital my son was born out

> automatically gave him Vit K (we did not have circumscision), Hep

B,

> and HIB witout our permission. We did not want any of these and

> apparently as parents we were not entitled to any prior info except

> to say we agreed to the hospital policy by admission. We had

wanted

> to hold off ourselves because I had a very serious reaction to a

> third (yes third,) MMR vaccine as an adult. It appears as if those

> of us vaccinated prior to 1967 were given a 'killed' vaccine that

was

> no longer effective and many folks that had two MMRs were coming

down

> with Mumps and Measles. So just the vaccine alone does not protect

> you as it works on building antibodies for immunities but does not

> raise immunity per say. So off I went, had my vaccine and then I

> could not use my left arm for a week, no one discussed it with me

and

> my doctor did not seem worried. I read later it needs to be

> documented via the FDA as a serious event. Skipping later - we do

no

> vaccines other than the ones our son was given, thinking we would

> wait until he could at least tell us what was wrong (we are still

> waiting ) and we did not do the MMR or any other vaccine that is

> supposed to give Autism or some disorder and we feed him organic

> foods and breastfed him for a year and he still came down with a

> disorder!

>

> One thing to look at is that populations of people exclusively

> breastfed were never studied against those formula fed and therefor

a

> properly controlled study is not really achieved. There does not

> appear to be anyone I know unvaccinated but breastfed that is ever

> sicker than the average common cold and all of them have traveled

the

> world. We read 'Evidence of Harm' my Dr. Kirby and decided not to

> vaccinate our daugther at all. In that book he points out many of

> the studies that had SAE were not discussed or given to the FDA.

> Again, being a lactivist, I feel that our bodies are designed to

get

> immunity naturally. I now teach natural childbirth and

breastfeeding

> and can sleep at night without the worry of side effects via

> vaccines. That is our personal choice and I wanted to share that

> hippy chick mentality.

> April

>

June 9, 2007

While I realize it is controversial...

No vaccines does = more disease. There's no way around that one.

I won't argue that vaccine safety could absolutely be improved but in

the case of Hib alone.... no vaccines = more disease and thousands of

dead infants in this country alone. This country's infant mortality

rate has dropped significantly just since we started vaccinating

against Hib (Haemophilus Influenzae). This vaccine is so effective

that many of those practicing in pediatrics today have never

witnessed a case of Haemophilus Influenzae, would probably

misdiagnose it/miss it and send mom home with the reassurance that

her child had a cold and would be fine in a few days. Instead the

child would be dead in a matter of hours.

Many of the vaccines play a vital role in preventing some of this

world's ugliest and nastiest illnesses. (Others are a bit sketchy in

my book and need a bit more research.) Do a little web search on

Diptheria. Check out that beautiful photo of the mucous plaque that

seals off the child's airway and suffocates them. Now realize as

you look at that picture that absolutely nothing can be done to treat

that nor is there very much that can be done to help that child breathe.

Or .... look up an online video of what a child looks like when he's

suffering with whooping cough. The image will be seared into your

brain forever. See how blue he looks because he can't get enough

oxygen? Notice how his/her ribs are flaring and bowing with each

breath? See the bruises on their side from the ribs they've already

broken simply by coughing?

Big pharma in the recent past years has not acted in good faith in

many ways but the basic vaccines we all think of (diptheria,

pertussis...i.e. whooping cough.... polio.... hib) these keep our

kids alive.

Alive. Let that word sink in just a bit.

Alive.

I'm pro vaccine safety and anti-thimerasol. But many of our vaccines

are vitally important. We simply need to make sure that they are

administered in the safest way possible. We need to make sure that

we're not vaccinating against things that really aren't as deadly as

the DPT, HIb, etc type illnesses. I'm right there with everyone when

it comes to vaccine safety and Big Pharma accountability. But I

never want to see a mother lose a child to Haemophilus Influenzae.

Especially because of something she read on this board. Never.

These are just basic facts. World Health Organization facts. So,

lets keep the tone friendly. And lets keep the discussion factual.

And above all... lets keep the discussion going. Saying vaccines are

" absolutely dangerous " is not factual. It is a personal opinion. It

might be more helpful if we discuss this in a matter such as.... " I

feel vaccines are dangerous. I feel they are unsafe for my child

because of..... etc. "

I have sat back quietly while many of Rene's posts have flown by

unchallenged. It is obvious that she is very passionate about this

issue. I am equally passionate about parents being well informed and

parents learning all they can so they can be well informed and make

appropriate balanced decisions. I think it is important for each

and every parent to learn every single tidbit about vaccines.... from

BOTH sides of the issue. If you don't want your child to receive

mercury containing additives then learn which vaccines are additive

free and be vigilant with your pediatrician and his nursing staff.

Be willing to foot the bill for your doctor's office to special order

a particular product for you. Do so without complaint knowing you

are going the extra mile for your child. If you want a " softer "

immunization schedule then research the different ones out there and

work with your pediatrician. Politely suggest that you'll sign that

you accept all responsibility for your decision, etc. Be a team

member with him/her. Agree to disagree and see how you can work

together. It's not about you getting to be right or them getting to

be right. It's about getting the best healthcare for you child...

and that is the only thing that is " right " .

So.... let's talk about the vaccines. Politely. Balanced. And

let's make sure that we keep facts listed as facts and opinions

listed as opinions. That way we don't inadvertently discourage a

parent from vaccinating because they thought your statements were

totally true....and the end result is that their child becomes

seriously ill (or worse) from a safe-vaccine preventable illness.

Kris

Pediatric Nurse Practitioner

Mom to Grace (global apraxia)

On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:27 PM, wrote:

> I know the whole vaccine thing has been thrown around before. Bottom

> line, I see both sides of the argument. No vaccines = more disease. --

> - In , Liz <lizlaw@...>

>

> Hey Liz... " No vaccines = more disease " NOT TRUE... this is the crap

> dished out to scare us.

>

> I just want to applaud the parents on this list. 1 year ago when I

> started down this journey, this tone of this thread would have been

> so different. Way Hoo!!!

>

> FYI.. Vaccines are ABSOLUTELY DANGEROUS as they are today. If I

> could get just one " re do " in life, I would NOT vaccinate.

>

> But, because I did... I must go now and shove yet another vitamin

> cocktail into my 4 year olds mouth, followed by the stinky feet

> cream/chelator on his feet, etc, etc, etc...

>

June 9, 2007

Yes, please keep it civil and accurate. A countrywith the " best "

health care,

..United States, which is tied near the bottom of industrialized

nations with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia with five deaths per

1,000 births.

Statistics can be spun by any organization to benefit the bottom line

of their agenda, remember the adage, you have Lies, Damned Lies and

Statistics. Do not blindly accept any dogma as accurate, research and

balance from whom the information is coming from.

CNN) -- An estimated 2 million babies die within their first 24 hours

each year worldwide and the United States has the second worst

newborn mortality rate in the developed world, according to a new

report.

American babies are three times more likely to die in their first

month as children born in Japan, and newborn mortality is 2.5 times

higher in the United States than in Finland, Iceland or Norway, Save

the Children researchers found.

Only Latvia, with six deaths per 1,000 live births, has a higher

death rate for newborns than the United States, which is tied near

the bottom of industrialized nations with Hungary, Malta, Poland and

Slovakia with five deaths per 1,000 births.

" The United States has more neonatologists and neonatal intensive

care beds per person than Australia, Canada and the United Kingdom,

but its newborn rate is higher than any of those countries, " said the

annual State of the World's Mothers report.

>

> > I know the whole vaccine thing has been thrown around before.

Bottom

> > line, I see both sides of the argument. No vaccines = more

disease. --

> > - In , Liz <lizlaw@>

> >

> > Hey Liz... " No vaccines = more disease " NOT TRUE... this is the

crap

> > dished out to scare us.

> >

> > I just want to applaud the parents on this list. 1 year ago when I

> > started down this journey, this tone of this thread would have

been

> > so different. Way Hoo!!!

> >

> > FYI.. Vaccines are ABSOLUTELY DANGEROUS as they are today. If I

> > could get just one " re do " in life, I would NOT vaccinate.

> >

> > But, because I did... I must go now and shove yet another vitamin

> > cocktail into my 4 year olds mouth, followed by the stinky feet

> > cream/chelator on his feet, etc, etc, etc...

> >

>

June 9, 2007

Kris,

I am going to read and reread this post and do as you say and I am

getting it to my husband. My main concerns are dpt and mmr. I think if I

had to pick a camp I'd belong to the " provaccine safety and

antithimerasol " group as well. The reason I am asking this question is

because historically I am now realizing my kids have had reactions (more

my son) to shots, there is some question if my last pediatrician

accidentally gave him an extra DPT booster by accident and the eye

doctor noticed excessive farsightedness for age that may be related to

the regular DPT booster or the accidental extra. I want to be clear

here, son is doing well and I have no interest in the blame game and am

not sure what happened. Even after we get the bloodwork to check my

purpose is simply not to overvaccinate in the future. This is the

article, coupled with the history that moved me to simply inquire:

http://www.healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/vaccines-dpt.htm#Autism

Personally I have seen signs of autism in both my kids. Some subtle and

some not. More in son. I am starting to believe that genetics, the wrong

vaccines or the right vaccones at the wrong time in combo with our

genetics, plus other toxins, both environmental and food, may be behind

the autism increase and spectrum disorder increase, on top of the fact

that we now know what to look for. With my theory that any one of us

could be on the spectrum (my kids are not autistic and I am not looking

for that label but am looking to prevent as much as possible in the

future, including Aspergers, reading difficulties, depression, frontal

lobe stuff, not to mention diabetes and thyroid issues and other stuff

related to what we now think is celiac) I simply want to be responsible

with our diets, environmental exposure and vaccine decisions and somehow

manage not to live in a bubble. No matter what I want my kids to have as

" normal " a life as possible (translation: I will raise them to be

informed and not fearful).

With that said, you have opened my eyes to some options (special

ordering) and I will look up what you mentioned. Having had pertussis as

a kid I think of it as harmless. I am glad you gave me a heads up.

Please keep posting and I beg your patience and pardon for any dumb or

already asked questions I have posted.

Sincerely,

Liz

and 's mom

Haukoos wrote:

>While I realize it is controversial...

>

>No vaccines does = more disease. There's no way around that one.

>I won't argue that vaccine safety could absolutely be improved but in

>the case of Hib alone.... no vaccines = more disease and thousands of

>dead infants in this country alone. This country's infant mortality

>rate has dropped significantly just since we started vaccinating

>against Hib (Haemophilus Influenzae). This vaccine is so effective

>that many of those practicing in pediatrics today have never

>witnessed a case of Haemophilus Influenzae, would probably

>misdiagnose it/miss it and send mom home with the reassurance that

>her child had a cold and would be fine in a few days. Instead the

>child would be dead in a matter of hours.

>

>Many of the vaccines play a vital role in preventing some of this

>world's ugliest and nastiest illnesses. (Others are a bit sketchy in

>my book and need a bit more research.) Do a little web search on

>Diptheria. Check out that beautiful photo of the mucous plaque that

>seals off the child's airway and suffocates them. Now realize as

>you look at that picture that absolutely nothing can be done to treat

>that nor is there very much that can be done to help that child breathe.

>

>Or .... look up an online video of what a child looks like when he's

>suffering with whooping cough. The image will be seared into your

>brain forever. See how blue he looks because he can't get enough

>oxygen? Notice how his/her ribs are flaring and bowing with each

>breath? See the bruises on their side from the ribs they've already

>broken simply by coughing?

>

>Big pharma in the recent past years has not acted in good faith in

>many ways but the basic vaccines we all think of (diptheria,

>pertussis...i.e. whooping cough.... polio.... hib) these keep our

>kids alive.

>

>Alive. Let that word sink in just a bit.

>

>Alive.

>

>I'm pro vaccine safety and anti-thimerasol. But many of our vaccines

>are vitally important. We simply need to make sure that they are

>administered in the safest way possible. We need to make sure that

>we're not vaccinating against things that really aren't as deadly as

>the DPT, HIb, etc type illnesses. I'm right there with everyone when

>it comes to vaccine safety and Big Pharma accountability. But I

>never want to see a mother lose a child to Haemophilus Influenzae.

>Especially because of something she read on this board. Never.

>

>These are just basic facts. World Health Organization facts. So,

>lets keep the tone friendly. And lets keep the discussion factual.

>And above all... lets keep the discussion going. Saying vaccines are

> " absolutely dangerous " is not factual. It is a personal opinion. It

>might be more helpful if we discuss this in a matter such as.... " I

>feel vaccines are dangerous. I feel they are unsafe for my child

>because of..... etc. "

>

>I have sat back quietly while many of Rene's posts have flown by

>unchallenged. It is obvious that she is very passionate about this

>issue. I am equally passionate about parents being well informed and

>parents learning all they can so they can be well informed and make

>appropriate balanced decisions. I think it is important for each

>and every parent to learn every single tidbit about vaccines.... from

>BOTH sides of the issue. If you don't want your child to receive

>mercury containing additives then learn which vaccines are additive

>free and be vigilant with your pediatrician and his nursing staff.

>Be willing to foot the bill for your doctor's office to special order

>a particular product for you. Do so without complaint knowing you

>are going the extra mile for your child. If you want a " softer "

>immunization schedule then research the different ones out there and

>work with your pediatrician. Politely suggest that you'll sign that

>you accept all responsibility for your decision, etc. Be a team

>member with him/her. Agree to disagree and see how you can work

>together. It's not about you getting to be right or them getting to

>be right. It's about getting the best healthcare for you child...

>and that is the only thing that is " right " .

>

>So.... let's talk about the vaccines. Politely. Balanced. And

>let's make sure that we keep facts listed as facts and opinions

>listed as opinions. That way we don't inadvertently discourage a

>parent from vaccinating because they thought your statements were

>totally true....and the end result is that their child becomes

>seriously ill (or worse) from a safe-vaccine preventable illness.

>

>Kris

>Pediatric Nurse Practitioner

>Mom to Grace (global apraxia)

>

>On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:27 PM, wrote:

>

>>I know the whole vaccine thing has been thrown around before. Bottom

>>line, I see both sides of the argument. No vaccines = more disease. --

>>- In , Liz <lizlaw@...>

>>

>>Hey Liz... " No vaccines = more disease " NOT TRUE... this is the crap

>>dished out to scare us.

>>

>>I just want to applaud the parents on this list. 1 year ago when I

>>started down this journey, this tone of this thread would have been

>>so different. Way Hoo!!!

>>

>>FYI.. Vaccines are ABSOLUTELY DANGEROUS as they are today. If I

>>could get just one " re do " in life, I would NOT vaccinate.

>>

>>But, because I did... I must go now and shove yet another vitamin

>>cocktail into my 4 year olds mouth, followed by the stinky feet

>>cream/chelator on his feet, etc, etc, etc...

>>

>

June 9, 2007

I just watched the video on Gastrointestinal Issues put out by Fair Autism

Media. In it the doctors suggested a viral link; a virus gets into the bowel

and rests; they have found evidence of the measles virus and suspect it from

the MMR vaccine. I highly recommend these videos, by the way.

This rings true for me. I had the chicken pox while pregnant and when Mark

caught the chicken pox at the age of 2; he only had it for one day. Deep

inside, I have always believed that this was the original cause of his

dyspraxia, the chicken pox while pregnant.

Janice

[sPAM] [ ] Re: Vaccines

So far, we have vaccinated our kids (although we may not do the MMR

with #4), but I agree that breastfeeding can be fantastic for the

immunity. Is it true that if mom has had the vaccinations, baby will

have some protection from her antibodies in the milk? My daughter,

who nursed until 2-1/2 has only had one prescription during her eight

years -- for pink eye! (And that was probably unnecessary, as most

pink eye is viral...) I don't give all the credit to breastfeeding,

but it certainly is remarkable.

in NJ

>

> Well Liz, This is my personal experience. I am a former research

> scientist in clinical trials. What I find odd is that no doctor or

> hospital ever offered us any side effect information or how to

report

> a serious adverse event. The hospital my son was born out

> automatically gave him Vit K (we did not have circumscision), Hep

B,

> and HIB witout our permission. We did not want any of these and

> apparently as parents we were not entitled to any prior info except

> to say we agreed to the hospital policy by admission. We had

wanted

> to hold off ourselves because I had a very serious reaction to a

> third (yes third,) MMR vaccine as an adult. It appears as if those

> of us vaccinated prior to 1967 were given a 'killed' vaccine that

was

> no longer effective and many folks that had two MMRs were coming

down

> with Mumps and Measles. So just the vaccine alone does not protect

> you as it works on building antibodies for immunities but does not

> raise immunity per say. So off I went, had my vaccine and then I

> could not use my left arm for a week, no one discussed it with me

and

> my doctor did not seem worried. I read later it needs to be

> documented via the FDA as a serious event. Skipping later - we do

no

> vaccines other than the ones our son was given, thinking we would

> wait until he could at least tell us what was wrong (we are still

> waiting ) and we did not do the MMR or any other vaccine that is

> supposed to give Autism or some disorder and we feed him organic

> foods and breastfed him for a year and he still came down with a

> disorder!

>

> One thing to look at is that populations of people exclusively

> breastfed were never studied against those formula fed and therefor

a

> properly controlled study is not really achieved. There does not

> appear to be anyone I know unvaccinated but breastfed that is ever

> sicker than the average common cold and all of them have traveled

the

> world. We read 'Evidence of Harm' my Dr. Kirby and decided not to

> vaccinate our daugther at all. In that book he points out many of

> the studies that had SAE were not discussed or given to the FDA.

> Again, being a lactivist, I feel that our bodies are designed to

get

> immunity naturally. I now teach natural childbirth and

breastfeeding

> and can sleep at night without the worry of side effects via

> vaccines. That is our personal choice and I wanted to share that

> hippy chick mentality.

> April

>

June 9, 2007

Kris - Have your read Dr. Kriby's Evidence of Harm? If not I urge to

you follow your own lead and keep informed of both sides of this

vaccine issue. The World Health Organization has to base their

opinions on formula fed babies because there are no scientific data

that can suggest that breastfed babies have better immunity. In

countries that are poor and babies are breastfed, they do not see a

rise in infant mortality due to diseases like HIP, Hep B, or measles

but malnurishment, diarhhea and neglect. We simple do not know all

the facts about vaccines. Those parents that do vaccinate are not

given the proper information on all possible side effects (I know I

wasn't given any for my newborn son) and rarely if at all do they

know the proper way to report an adverse event. There are more

vaccine related deaths than we know because the reporting system is

not open to the public, it goes to an agency which is federally run.

And even if you do decide to breastfeed and vaccinate - there is no

harm in waiting for a child to be able to speak and tell you what is

wrong. There is something dangerous in pushing vaccines are the

times the doctors suggest you need to do them. One doctor threatened

to report me (to who, I don't know) and told me that my child could

not go to school without them. This is inaccurate. Just follow the

recent outbursts of chickenpox related shigella in children - a virus

normally lays dorment for years not breaks out within a year. These

kids are hospitalized. Hardly anyone is informed. I was so

provaccines until I had my MMR scare, and as a bench scientist I

could not feel my left arm. Now I am passionate about telling

parents you have a choice, ask the right question, and don't assume

you have been given informed consent when a doctor or nurse tells

you 'hardly anyone has a problem' it is simply not true and not

ethical. It is certainly not what the research supports. A very

good speaker on this topic came to our Holistic Moms Network meeting

Barbara Flynn, founder of C.H.E.R.U.B.S, and one of the leading

spokespeople on the dangers of vaccines. She presented a

comprehensive session on vaccine dangers, laws, side effects and

more. We watched a vaccine DVD Sherry Tenpenny's video called

Vaccines: The Risks, the Benefits, the Choices? Lastly - I caught

this off a Christian site that does not believe in anything but God's

design:

http://www.mercola.com/2007/feb/15/shocking-documentary-will-convince-

you-to-stay-away-from-vaccines-for-good.htm

Shocking Documentary Will Convince You to Stay Away From Vaccines For

Good

Among other things, you'll wonder why the American Academy of

Pediatrics still fights state legislatures about the use of thimerosal

(mercury) in vaccines behind the scenes after publicly asking for its

removal eight years ago, after watching Brownyn Hancock's disturbing

documentary Vaccination: The Hidden Truth.

Hancock's 90-minute film delves into the truth behind the real dangers

of vaccines, often using the very same peer-reviewed research

emanating

from conventional medicine, and just as my friend and colleague, Dr.

Blaylock, has done on my Web site.

Just rounding the table so to speak and please don't think I am

trying to offend you or anyone else. The parenting choices we make

are very personal and private. We need to respect each other and

support each other.

April Larsen, Master's degree in Health Administration, Natural

childbirth and breastfeeding educator. Still, can't spell worth

beans.

June 9, 2007

Is it true that if mom has had the vaccinations, baby will

have some protection from her antibodies in the milk?

I have not come across this in any data so I cannot speak but the

chances are slim.

April

June 9, 2007

I don't know... I'm fully vaccinated. I've even been vaccinated for

hep A, yellow fever and all sorts of nasty things so that I could

travel to the DR and to Nicaragua. And yet my 100% breastfed

daughter who I kept at home and never went anywhere with was

diagnosed with meningitis at the age of 1 month and spent a week in

the hospital. Two weeks later there was the never ending pink eye.

Later came the always present ear infections. I did everything " by

the book " when it came to breastfeeding, handwashing, etc. So

needless to say I felt a bit ripped off. ;-).

But.... I'd do the breastfeeding thing all over again. The immune

system benefits may not have worked out for us but I enjoyed the

bonding and knowing I was doing all I could for my daughter.

Kris

On Jun 8, 2007, at 5:54 PM, bigcheech91 wrote:

> So far, we have vaccinated our kids (although we may not do the MMR

> with #4), but I agree that breastfeeding can be fantastic for the

> immunity. Is it true that if mom has had the vaccinations, baby will

> have some protection from her antibodies in the milk? My daughter,

> who nursed until 2-1/2 has only had one prescription during her eight

> years -- for pink eye! (And that was probably unnecessary, as most

> pink eye is viral...) I don't give all the credit to breastfeeding,

> but it certainly is remarkable.

>

> in NJ

>

> >

> > Well Liz, This is my personal experience. I am a former research

> > scientist in clinical trials. What I find odd is that no doctor or

> > hospital ever offered us any side effect information or how to

> report

> > a serious adverse event. The hospital my son was born out

> > automatically gave him Vit K (we did not have circumscision), Hep

> B,

> > and HIB witout our permission. We did not want any of these and

> > apparently as parents we were not entitled to any prior info except

> > to say we agreed to the hospital policy by admission. We had

> wanted

> > to hold off ourselves because I had a very serious reaction to a

> > third (yes third,) MMR vaccine as an adult. It appears as if those

> > of us vaccinated prior to 1967 were given a 'killed' vaccine that

> was

> > no longer effective and many folks that had two MMRs were coming

> down

> > with Mumps and Measles. So just the vaccine alone does not protect

> > you as it works on building antibodies for immunities but does not

> > raise immunity per say. So off I went, had my vaccine and then I

> > could not use my left arm for a week, no one discussed it with me

> and

> > my doctor did not seem worried. I read later it needs to be

> > documented via the FDA as a serious event. Skipping later - we do

> no

> > vaccines other than the ones our son was given, thinking we would

> > wait until he could at least tell us what was wrong (we are still

> > waiting ) and we did not do the MMR or any other vaccine that is

> > supposed to give Autism or some disorder and we feed him organic

> > foods and breastfed him for a year and he still came down with a

> > disorder!

> >

> > One thing to look at is that populations of people exclusively

> > breastfed were never studied against those formula fed and therefor

> a

> > properly controlled study is not really achieved. There does not

> > appear to be anyone I know unvaccinated but breastfed that is ever

> > sicker than the average common cold and all of them have traveled

> the

> > world. We read 'Evidence of Harm' my Dr. Kirby and decided not to

> > vaccinate our daugther at all. In that book he points out many of

> > the studies that had SAE were not discussed or given to the FDA.

> > Again, being a lactivist, I feel that our bodies are designed to

> get

> > immunity naturally. I now teach natural childbirth and

> breastfeeding

> > and can sleep at night without the worry of side effects via

> > vaccines. That is our personal choice and I wanted to share that

> > hippy chick mentality.

> > April

> >

>

> .

>

June 9, 2007

Regardless of anyone's opinion on the safety of vaccines, there are

many reasons for infant mortality and almost none of them is related

to vaccine use. Poor nutrition from the standard American diet,

expensive prenatal care, drug use (legal and illegal), smoking, etc.

etc. are all part of that ugly picture.

What we all agree on is that we want REAL answers based on REAL

scientific research, not assumptions and anecdotal evidence and

mother's intuition. We are all flying blind here, and that's a crime.

And this country is paying a high price in terms of skyrocketing

special education and related insurance costs, lost productivity for

those still impaired as adults, social costs from the negative impact

on families, and on and on. In NJ, the autism rate is up to 1 in 94!

The US is being penny wise and pound foolish. GRRR!

in NJ

> >

> > > I know the whole vaccine thing has been thrown around before.

> Bottom

> > > line, I see both sides of the argument. No vaccines = more

> disease. --

> > > - In , Liz <lizlaw@>

> > >

> > > Hey Liz... " No vaccines = more disease " NOT TRUE... this is the

> crap

> > > dished out to scare us.

> > >

> > > I just want to applaud the parents on this list. 1 year ago

when I

> > > started down this journey, this tone of this thread would have

> been

> > > so different. Way Hoo!!!

> > >

> > > FYI.. Vaccines are ABSOLUTELY DANGEROUS as they are today. If I

> > > could get just one " re do " in life, I would NOT vaccinate.

> > >

> > > But, because I did... I must go now and shove yet another

vitamin

> > > cocktail into my 4 year olds mouth, followed by the stinky feet

> > > cream/chelator on his feet, etc, etc, etc...

> > >

> >

June 9, 2007

I have read his work and agree with him on many points. And my

statements regarding HIB are based on the data from THIS country

alone coming from the AAP and our US based infant mortality records.

Oh.... and even Dr. Kirby has made some wonderful arguments toward

SAFE vaccine practices....not anti vaccine practices. I greatly

appreciate his steps toward pushing for greater government and Big

Pharma accountability and his style of presenting his data makes it

difficult to discount his work. So, yes.... I have read his work,

read his research, read most articles that he's published. And my

the statements on my post stand.... I am in support of safe

vaccines. And no, breastfeeding alone will not prevent a child from

getting HIB or diptheria in this country. That simply isn't true. I

wish it was.... it would make the world a much better place to live.

But it simply isn't true.

Yes breastfeeding does help in immunity. But my child was 100%

breastfed and spent an extensive amount of time hospitalized for

meningitis. She has also had 19 ear infections in 3 years. She had

four bouts of pink eye prior to being 3 months of age. She has no

immunodeficiency. I was a neurotic handwashing, keep my child

indoors and away from everyone, breast feed exclusively new mother.

With a master's degree in pediatrics. Yet my child had every

infection in the book, has eczema and allergies to everything

(starting at age 6 weeks) and, as a bonus, she got to have meningitis

as well. So, breastfeeding isn't a panacea. Would I breast feed

again? Absolutely. Do I trust it alone to keep my child alive? Nope.

Kris

On Jun 9, 2007, at 2:25 PM, April Larsen wrote:

> Kris - Have your read Dr. Kriby's Evidence of Harm? If not I urge to

> you follow your own lead and keep informed of both sides of this

> vaccine issue. The World Health Organization has to base their

> opinions on formula fed babies because there are no scientific data

> that can suggest that breastfed babies have better immunity. In

> countries that are poor and babies are breastfed, they do not see a

> rise in infant mortality due to diseases like HIP, Hep B, or measles

> but malnurishment, diarhhea and neglect. We simple do not know all

> the facts about vaccines. Those parents that do vaccinate are not

> given the proper information on all possible side effects (I know I

> wasn't given any for my newborn son) and rarely if at all do they

> know the proper way to report an adverse event. There are more

> vaccine related deaths than we know because the reporting system is

> not open to the public, it goes to an agency which is federally run.

> And even if you do decide to breastfeed and vaccinate - there is no

> harm in waiting for a child to be able to speak and tell you what is

> wrong. There is something dangerous in pushing vaccines are the

> times the doctors suggest you need to do them. One doctor threatened

> to report me (to who, I don't know) and told me that my child could

> not go to school without them. This is inaccurate. Just follow the

> recent outbursts of chickenpox related shigella in children - a virus

> normally lays dorment for years not breaks out within a year. These

> kids are hospitalized. Hardly anyone is informed. I was so

> provaccines until I had my MMR scare, and as a bench scientist I

> could not feel my left arm. Now I am passionate about telling

> parents you have a choice, ask the right question, and don't assume

> you have been given informed consent when a doctor or nurse tells

> you 'hardly anyone has a problem' it is simply not true and not

> ethical. It is certainly not what the research supports. A very

> good speaker on this topic came to our Holistic Moms Network meeting

> Barbara Flynn, founder of C.H.E.R.U.B.S, and one of the leading

> spokespeople on the dangers of vaccines. She presented a

> comprehensive session on vaccine dangers, laws, side effects and

> more. We watched a vaccine DVD Sherry Tenpenny's video called

> Vaccines: The Risks, the Benefits, the Choices? Lastly - I caught

> this off a Christian site that does not believe in anything but God's

> design:

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2007/feb/15/shocking-documentary-will-convince-

> you-to-stay-away-from-vaccines-for-good.htm

>

> Shocking Documentary Will Convince You to Stay Away From Vaccines For

> Good

>

> Among other things, you'll wonder why the American Academy of

> Pediatrics still fights state legislatures about the use of thimerosal

> (mercury) in vaccines behind the scenes after publicly asking for its

> removal eight years ago, after watching Brownyn Hancock's disturbing

> documentary Vaccination: The Hidden Truth.

>

> Hancock's 90-minute film delves into the truth behind the real dangers

> of vaccines, often using the very same peer-reviewed research

> emanating

> from conventional medicine, and just as my friend and colleague, Dr.

> Blaylock, has done on my Web site.

>

> Just rounding the table so to speak and please don't think I am

> trying to offend you or anyone else. The parenting choices we make

> are very personal and private. We need to respect each other and

> support each other.

>

> April Larsen, Master's degree in Health Administration, Natural

> childbirth and breastfeeding educator. Still, can't spell worth

> beans.

>

June 9, 2007

Regarding the choice issue... that depends on the state you live in.

And I highly disagree with this practice. I think every parent

should have a right to choose whether to use a particular vaccine or

not. When your doctor told you your child couldn't go to school

without the vaccines, there are some areas where that statement is

actually true. Case in point... the state of Florida.

Florida law provides no means for a parent to 'opt out' of vaccines

when they place their child in school or daycare. The parent's

" choices " are as follows:

1. Vaccinate child fully.

2. If child has a medical condition that prevents vaccines, get

physician to sign a medical exemption.

3. If your religious affiliation states that it is a " sin " or against

your religious belief system to vaccinate your child you have to go

to the health department, jump through a bunch of hoops and

eventually you'll get your religious exemption.

So, what if you don't want to vaccinate your child but you don't fit

into category 1 or 2? You're out of luck. You're only choices are

to try to convince your doctor to lie for you (not exactly setting a

good example for your child and that's a bit much to ask of your

pediatrician) or you go down to the health department and lie to get

your religious exemption. So, what if your " faith " makes it clear

that lying would be a sin? Or, you don't want to act unethically?

You. Are. Stuck.

Again, I think families should be able to have the choice when it

comes to such things but I also see the concerns of the public health

folks. But... I don't want the government telling me they won't

educate my child because I won't use XYZ vaccine. So... I hate such

policies.