Re: Fructose Intolerance and Diet

[Guest guest]

Do you, or anyone, know if there is a connection between lactose and

fructose intolerance?

I have believed for years that I was lactose intolerant (never been

tested) but right now I can't handle any of the lactose-free products

we are supposed to have. I am wondering what I am reacting to. Is

there a miniscule amount of lactose left in it and I/we are super

sensitive or is there something else I/we are reacting to?

I know I can't have honey ( " d " is the result), but I'm sure there are

people that can't handle honey yet, and they aren't necessarily

fructose intolerant. Right?

Any thoughts, anyone?

Orlinda - OR

Celiac - 2006

SCD - Sept. 2007

>

> Hi Folks,

> In a visit to my GI Doc yesterday, she suggested that I might have

a case of Fructose Intolerance which is causing my continued

diarrhea, bloating, gassiness even while following SCD. I've already

tested Lactose Intolerant and been treated for SIBO (bacterial

overgrowth, small intestine.) I haven't seen major improvements to my

gut issues (particularly gassiness, bloating, and discomfort) yet, so

fructose is the next step.

> Doc mentioned fructose intolerance is on the rise, and she sees

many IBS patients who test positive for it. There's some suspicion

that it's a result of the massive consumption of High Fructose Corn

Syrup (in soda, cookies, candy, etc.)

> Here's a link to a resource listing which fruits and veggies may be

problematic for fructose-intolerant people:

> http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/digestive-

health/nutrition/low-fructose-diet.pdf

>

> I am going to give it a try (meaning, eliminate high fructose

fruits/veggies) and see what the results are. If anyone knows more

about this, and would like to supplement my knowledge, I'm all ears :-

)

>

> Thanks, Nina in MA

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

>

[Guest guest]

I am rather curious about the reference to discussing a Low Fructose

Diet off list and many showing interest.

My reasons? I have observed that when other subsets of SCD dieters

started applying protocols from other diets they did not actually

require there was regression and even damage. I have seen documented

evidence on what transpired to those who tried to combine SCD with

another diet or make SCD too low carb.

I have requested that Marilyn respond with some objective and

scientific comments although I did read her post about weight

stabilization and her own efforts to lose weight and I do respect how

different strokes " needs that can be present.

This is not to say that every facet of SCD is going to work off the

bat for all on the diet. I just like to err on the side of caution.

Elaine does warn about too much fructose and glucose for children

that have had a lot of sugar in their diet BEFORE SCD.

Personally I eat lots of fruit and honey and if I should not be and

have been doing it for eight years I'd better know that.

Here are Elaine's comments:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/

fructose_intolerance.htm

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/fructose.htm

>>

>>>

>>> Hi Nina,

>>> What you presented here makes a lot of sense to me, the webpage for

>>> Low Fructose Diet is a great resource, THANKS! ... I'll try the

>>> same ... and that brings

>>> me to my next questions:

>>> - any suggestions for a week long menu without fructose?

>>> - any suggestions for a replacement for honey in baked goods?

>>>

>>> Please feel free to email me directly as this may be a repetition

>> for many of you,

>>> Geta

>>> IBS-D diagnosed June 07

>>> lactose intolerant

>>> geta741 [at] yahoo [dot] com

>>>

>>

>

>

>

Carol F.

Celiac, SCD 8 years,MCS, Latex Allergy

http://www.celiac.com/authors/143/Carol-Frilegh

http://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/gfcf-diet/sc-diet.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Please keep this discussion online. It is very interesting to me as well.

Thank You,

-- Re: Fructose Intolerance and Diet

Hi Nina,What you presented here makes a lot of sense to me, the webpage for Low Fructose Diet is a great resource, THANKS! ... I'll try the same ... and that brings me to my next questions: - any suggestions for a week long menu without fructose?- any suggestions for a replacement for honey in baked goods? Please feel free to email me directly as this may be a repetition for many of you,GetaIBS-D diagnosed June 07lactose intolerantgeta741 [at] yahoo [dot] com>> Hi Folks,> In a visit to my GI Doc yesterday, she suggested that I might have a case of Fructose Intolerance which is causing my continued diarrhea, bloating, gassiness even while following SCD. I've already tested Lactose Intolerant and been treated for SIBO (bacterial overgrowth, small intestine.) I haven't seen major improvements to my gut issues (particularly gassiness, bloating, and discomfort) yet, so fructose is the next step.> Doc mentioned fructose intolerance is on the rise, and she sees many IBS patients who test positive for it. There's some suspicion that it's a result of the massive consumption of High Fructose Corn Syrup (in soda, cookies, candy, etc.) > Here's a link to a resource listing which fruits and veggies may be problematic for fructose-intolerant people:> http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/digestive-health/nutrition/low-fructose-diet.pdf> > I am going to give it a try (meaning, eliminate high fructose fruits/veggies) and see what the results are. If anyone knows more about this, and would like to supplement my knowledge, I'm all ears :-)> > Thanks, Nina in MA

[Guest guest]

Can you develop this over time or would I have always had symptoms, I used to drink a lot of coke, eat a lot of cookies, etc. I get more bloated now than I can ever remember.

Hi,

Please keep this discussion online. It is very interesting to me as well.

Thank You,

-- Re: Fructose Intolerance and Diet

Hi Nina,What you presented here makes a lot of sense to me, the webpage for Low Fructose Diet is a great resource, THANKS! ... I'll try the same ... and that brings me to my next questions:

- any suggestions for a week long menu without fructose?- any suggestions for a replacement for honey in baked goods? Please feel free to email me directly as this may be a repetition for many of you,Geta

IBS-D diagnosed June 07lactose intolerantgeta741 [at] yahoo [dot] com

>> Hi Folks,> In a visit to my GI Doc yesterday, she suggested that I might have a case of Fructose Intolerance which is causing my continued diarrhea, bloating, gassiness even while following SCD. I've already tested Lactose Intolerant and been treated for SIBO (bacterial

overgrowth, small intestine.) I haven't seen major improvements to my gut issues (particularly gassiness, bloating, and discomfort) yet, so fructose is the next step.> Doc mentioned fructose intolerance is on the rise, and she sees many IBS patients who

test positive for it. There's some suspicion that it's a result of the massive consumption of High Fructose Corn Syrup (in soda, cookies, candy, etc.) > Here's a link to a resource listing which fruits and veggies may be problematic for

fructose-intolerant people:> http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/digestive-health/nutrition/low-

fructose-diet.pdf> > I am going to give it a try (meaning, eliminate high fructose fruits/veggies) and see what the results are. If anyone knows more about this, and would like to supplement my knowledge, I'm all ears :-)

> > Thanks, Nina in MA

[Guest guest]

Hi Nina

I have found that my digestion doesn't cope with foods high in carbohydrates; I'm also lactose intolerant and have now become dairy sensitive. I thought I was also fructose intolerant, because I don't tolerate fruits at all well, even though I haven't bothered to ask for a test to confirm it. However based on the information from the Univ. of Virginia (excellent source, thanks for that link) I find I can only tolerate one or two of the foods in the "intestine friendly" column but can tolerate most of the foods in the "foods to avoid" column, as long as they're cooked and I don't eat them very often. I already avoid or limit the foods in the "Questionable Foods" column. So much for my theory of being fructose intolerant!!

In my case it's more a question of fiber and sugar levels in the individual foods. I deal with bloating (along with other symptoms) all the time, as I have slow upper GI motility. Foods high in fiber, fat, sugar and seasonings make things worse, not just for my digestive system but also for my metabolism. Actually I suffer bloating after every meal, it's become just a matter of degree, never completely "cured."

So I buy pants one size larger, wear loose clothes all the time. I eat small meals throughout the day. And I choose foods that I've learned cause the least amount of bloating and nausea and RUQ pain. I've improved tremendously since being on SCD, but I guess I'll never be completely "cured" since my disorders are functional, and permanent. I'm glad to have a few hours a day free of symptoms; it's a huge improvement.

Anyway, thanks for the link. Very helpful to have the listing of foods high or low in fructose.

Kim M.

SCD 4+ years

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol,Elaine was commenting largely on the Hereditary Fructose disorder, from what I read. My understanding is that fructose intolerance, as we're discussing it here, is more of a garden-variety carbohydrate intolerance that can cause digestive upsets (gas, rumbling, diarrhea, bloating), but is not life-threatening. The simple truth may be that some folks doing SCD have damage to their guts that renders them *very* sensitive to carbohydrates, amongst them fructose. In those folks, reducing the fructose can help achieve intestinal healing, at which point it may be possible to introduce more fructose-containing foods. I am not a proponent of depriving children or adults of carbohydrates - that is not my focus. My focus is to

get my gut to a place where it can begin to heal - and this is perfectly in line with SCD philosophy - so that I can perhaps add back in the sweeter foods and tolerate them. If anyone on the list is considering putting their child or themselves on a low-carb eating plan, I would only recommend doing so with a doctor's supervision. Carbs are necessary for energy, and we need that energy to heal. The question is, where should the carbs come from and how much sugar can an injured gut handle? It seems, from the variety of feedback I've read, that we each have our own "tolerance" for sweet, and we need to discover for ourselves what we can handle, and how much is too much. Thanks for sending out the additional information - I think it's good to be clear about what is being proposed, what we know, and how we modify SCD for ourselves to achieve an optimal state of health and comfort.Best, Nina in MA----- Original Message ----

I am rather curious about the reference to discussing a Low Fructose

Diet off list and many showing interest.

My reasons? I have observed that when other subsets of SCD dieters

started applying protocols from other diets they did not actually

require there was regression and even damage. I have seen documented

evidence on what transpired to those who tried to combine SCD with

another diet or make SCD too low carb.

I have requested that Marilyn respond with some objective and

scientific comments although I did read her post about weight

stabilization and her own efforts to lose weight and I do respect how

different strokes" needs that can be present.

This is not to say that every facet of SCD is going to work off the

bat for all on the diet. I just like to err on the side of caution.

Elaine does warn about too much fructose and glucose for children

that have had a lot of sugar in their diet BEFORE SCD.

Personally I eat lots of fruit and honey and if I should not be and

have been doing it for eight years I'd better know that.

Here are Elaine's comments:

http://www.breaking theviciouscycle. info/knowledge_ base/kb/

fructose_intoleranc e.htm

http://www.breaking theviciouscycle. info/knowledge_ base/kb/fructose .htm

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

Hi ya'll,

I usually bookmark every link to look over later but this isn't working--even cutting/pasting into the browser. I was only able to capture google's html version. Did anyone download it and can you send it to me? Thanks or maybe I have the wrong link. There is also a link with low sodium/high cal from the same place if you do a search on it fwiw anyone watching salt intake.

Debbie 38 crohn's dx 3/02

scd restart 1/07

Hi Nina

I have found that my digestion doesn't cope with foods high in carbohydrates; I'm also lactose intolerant and have now become dairy sensitive. I thought I was also fructose intolerant, because I don't tolerate fruits at all well, even though I haven't bothered to ask for a test to confirm it. However based on the information from the Univ. of Virginia (excellent source, thanks for that link) I find I can only tolerate one or two of the foods in the " intestine friendly " column but can tolerate most of the foods in the " foods to avoid " column, as long as they're cooked and I don't eat them very often. I already avoid or limit the foods in the " Questionable Foods " column. So much for my theory of being fructose intolerant!!

In my case it's more a question of fiber and sugar levels in the individual foods. I deal with bloating (along with other symptoms) all the time, as I have slow upper GI motility. Foods high in fiber, fat, sugar and seasonings make things worse, not just for my digestive system but also for my metabolism. Actually I suffer bloating after every meal, it's become just a matter of degree, never completely " cured. "

So I buy pants one size larger, wear loose clothes all the time. I eat small meals throughout the day. And I choose foods that I've learned cause the least amount of bloating and nausea and RUQ pain. I've improved tremendously since being on SCD, but I guess I'll never be completely " cured " since my disorders are functional, and permanent. I'm glad to have a few hours a day free of symptoms; it's a huge improvement.

Anyway, thanks for the link. Very helpful to have the listing of foods high or low in fructose.

Kim M.

SCD 4+ years

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I just wanted to add a couple things I saw in research after this

discussion got started.

I read that this malabsorption of fructose " could " for some people be

a matter of the bad bacteria being in such a high population and them

grabbing this easy to digest carb before our bodies get a chance to

digest it.

Also, there are different opinions about this but some people may

have trouble with Fructans too, which is in artichokes, asparagus,

leeks, and onions. You might just keep and eye out for troubles with

this food group.

Seeing that some on this list have trouble with galactose in yogurt,

it kinda makes sense that fructose could be a problem too.

Orlinda - OR

Celiac - 2006

SCD - Sept. 2007

>

> Hi Geta, and other following this thread,

> A few more informational things to share:

>

> There are two forms of fructose intolerance, and it's important to

distinguish which we're talking about here:

> 1. Hereditary Fructose Intolerance: Identified in childhood and is

a life-threatening condition. Caused by a deficiency of liver enzymes

that metabolize fructose. This is not the condition I'm referring to

in this email thread.

> 2. Fructose Malabsorption: An intestinal/digestive deficiency

resulting in too high levels of fructose in the intestines. This is

not as serious as the Hereditary condition, though it does require

dietary modification to achieve intestintal health, similar to

Lactose Intolerance.

>

> Diagnosing Fructose Malabsorption seems to be done mostly via a

Breath Test/Challenge, where the patient drinks a high-fructose-

containing solution and then breath samples are measured for evidence

of malabsorption (increasing Hydrogen or CO2 levels.)

> Patients can 'acquire' this syndrome at any point in time, from

what I understand, just like Lactose Intolerance.

>

> Treating Fructose Malabsorption involves making gradual changes to

the diet by removing foods/drinks that have very high fructose

content. On SCD, we've done a lot of this already (all processed

foods with High Fructose Corn Syrup - candy, cookies, cakes, breads,

etc.) To adjust the SCD to reduce fructose is an incremental process,

in my opinion. Similar to Lactose Intolerance, folks have different

degrees of sensitivity to fructose. Some can handle portions of fruit

spread throughout the day, some cannot. Again, I'm no expert on this,

just a patient who has been " warned " by her GI Doc that this is

perhaps my issue (I still have bloating, gas, rumbling, diarrhea on

SCD.) Nothing that I say here should be taken to mean that I advocate

going OFF of SCD. All of the changes I outline below are being made

IN ADDITION to SCD (just so there's no misunderstanding. :-) )

>

> The diet pages that I sent out yesterday contain information that

I'm just " getting up to speed " on myself, so it's a " learn as I go "

process. Regarding meal planning, I am not able to make

recommendations yet because I am just starting out myself. I will

share what I plan to do in my diet, though, if that's helpful. As I

mentioned, I'm following SCD already.

> Here are the fructose modifications that I will make:

>

> 1. No Honey: Honey contains a high proportion of fructose as part

of its sugar structure (I use saccharine, but I do not feel

comfortable recommending this to others cuz it's a chemical.)

> 2. Remove Apple, Pear, Grape, Cherry, Peach, Plum, Dates, Raisins,

other Dried Fruit. Substitute Blueberry, Strawberry, Cranberry, Very

Ripe Banana, Pineapple.

> 3. Limit Carrot, Tomato, Squash (these foods may cause problems for

more sensitive individuals)

> 4. Limit Cauliflower, Broccoli, Lentils and other Beans, Cucumber,

Celery (these foods are low in fructose, but difficult to digest)

> 5. Use Spinach, Collard Greens, Garlic, Onion, Zucchini, Summer

Squash, Green, Red, Yellow Peppers

> 6. Cook all fruits and veggies. No raw foods until some progress is

seen (this is common SCD knowledge)

> 7. Use Meat, Fish, Eggs, Fats as per SCD

> 8. Use Dairy Products as per SCD

> 9. Use Nuts as per SCD (I actually don't use nuts because I have an

allergy.)

> 10. Use Probiotics as per SCD

> 11. Reassess progress after a month or so.

>

> I hope this helps somewhat. I will definitely post any recipes I

discover or progress I make, or anything else that I learn which is

interesting.

> I am scheduled to have a Fructose Challenge breath test next month,

but I suspect that I'll learn before then if I have a sensitivity, as

I plan to change my diet as written above.

>

> Best to all, and Health! :-)

> Nina in MA

>

> ----- Original Message ----

[Guest guest]

Hi, folks....

I will have some comments on this very interesting thread in a few hours.

However, due to some health issues on my part, I haven't made it to my

water therapy all week, and I am in serious pain. So I'm headed for the

fitness center to do, at the very least, a half-session, and then some

water-walking.

Then I'll come back and do the research I see looming before me.

Just so ya'll know... it's MARDI GRAS.

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I feel I have to add my grain of sugar to this thread as well : )) I am

also extremely sensitive to sugar carbs and dairy. I gave the honey a

try and my oral thrush and dry mouth problems multiplied. Even one ripe

banana will cause problems. With dairy (SCD yogurt) I get a red

forehead rash with pimples wich later all becomes scaly and dry. I also

get super itchy skin and out of control C.

This week I cut yougurt out but kept a probiotic and all sypmtoms are

50% lower. Cheeers.

Serge

IBS and candida 2.5 years

SCD 32 days

[Guest guest]

Serge,

I'm just curious . . . was the yogurt your were eating strained or

not? Did you try strained yogurt at all?

Orlinda - OR

Celiac - 2006

SCD - Sept. 2007

>

> Hi all,

>

> I feel I have to add my grain of sugar to this thread as well : ))

I am

> also extremely sensitive to sugar carbs and dairy. I gave the honey

a

> try and my oral thrush and dry mouth problems multiplied. Even one

ripe

> banana will cause problems. With dairy (SCD yogurt) I get a red

> forehead rash with pimples wich later all becomes scaly and dry. I

also

> get super itchy skin and out of control C.

>

> This week I cut yougurt out but kept a probiotic and all sypmtoms

are

> 50% lower. Cheeers.

>

> Serge

> IBS and candida 2.5 years

> SCD 32 days

>

[Guest guest]

I have not tried it strained but I remember doing it with Kefir before

being on SCD and I was still sensitive.

Serge

> Serge,

> I'm just curious . . . was the yogurt your were eating strained or

> not? Did you try strained yogurt at all?

>

> Orlinda - OR

> Celiac - 2006

> SCD - Sept. 2007

>

>

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I feel I have to add my grain of sugar to this thread as well : ))

> I am

> > also extremely sensitive to sugar carbs and dairy. I gave the honey

> a

> > try and my oral thrush and dry mouth problems multiplied. Even one

> ripe

> > banana will cause problems. With dairy (SCD yogurt) I get a red

> > forehead rash with pimples wich later all becomes scaly and dry. I

> also

> > get super itchy skin and out of control C.

> >

> > This week I cut yougurt out but kept a probiotic and all sypmtoms

> are

> > 50% lower. Cheeers.

> >

> > Serge

> > IBS and candida 2.5 years

> > SCD 32 days

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I will give the strained yogurt a try in a couple of months. Thanks.

Serge

> Serge,

> I am not trying to tell you that you should try the yogurt strained,

> but I wouldn't use your experience with the kefir to rule it out. I

> learned the hard way that kefir and yogurt are VERY different.

>

> You may just need time to get the " bad bugs " under control.

>

> Orlinda - OR

> Celiac - 2006

> SCD - Sept. 2007

>

>

> >

> > I have not tried it strained but I remember doing it with Kefir

> before

> > being on SCD and I was still sensitive.

> >

> > Serge

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nina,

I found the information which you sent out to be interesting. Of course,

that information isn't admitting the existence of SCD, and so therefore

several of the recommended steps have already been done by the SCDer,

like the removal of sugar and High Fructose Corn Syrup. (Which you

noted.)

And, of course, their dietary recommendations do not recognize the need

to get rid of starches as SCD does.

>> Fructose Malabsorption: An intestinal/digestive deficiency

resulting in too high levels of fructose in the intestines. This is not

as serious as the Hereditary condition, though it does require dietary

modification to achieve intestintal health, similar to Lactose

Intolerance. <<

My suspicion is that the reason for this can be found in Dr. Gee's

statement, oft-quoted by SCDers: " That which the patient takes,

beyond his ability to digest, does harm. "

SCD is predicated on the elimination of all but monosaccharides.

Technically, fructose is a monosaccharide, and is legal, but equally

clearly, it is not the same as glucose or dextrose.

Glucose is (C6H12O6) . It's also called

Dextrose Monohydrate. But glucose can take a lot of shapes, and depending

on the shape, it might be easier to absorb in some forms than others. I

think. (I am not a chemist or a biologist.)

Fructose has the same chemical structure, but requires lots of work by

the liver in order to be broken down and utilized. And this, I think, may

be the key factor in what you're citing.

Since a great deal of work is needed by the liver to break down the

fructose, this could (and again, I am not a chemist or a biologist)

result in its not being absorbed the way it is intended to be absorbed...

which could lead to it becoming food for the bad bacteria in the

gut.

According to SCD, anything which isn't properly digested and absorbed is

food for the bad bugs.

So if a person is not absorbing the fructose, and they are eating a fair

about of high fructose foods, they could, in fact, be continuing to feed

the bad bugs.

That's a beastly discouraging thought.

I'm assuming that you are planning to find ways to keep the levels of

non-fructose SCD-legal carbohydrates to a reasonably healthy level. It

looks that way from what you outlined.

>> 1. No Honey: Honey contains a high proportion of fructose as

part of its sugar structure (I use saccharine, but I do not feel

comfortable recommending this to others cuz it's a chemical.)

<<

Understood on the saccharine -- I don't use it, myself, although I can

appreciate some who find it helpful. There are lots of SCDers who do not

use honey for one reason or another.

>> 2. Remove Apple, Pear, Grape, Cherry, Peach, Plum, Dates,

Raisins, other Dried Fruit. Substitute Blueberry, Strawberry, Cranberry,

Very Ripe Banana, Pineapple. <<

Blueberry, Strawberry, per 1 cup, 11 grams of carbohydrate

Cranberry, per 1 cup, 12 grams of carbohydrate

Banana, per 1 cup, mashed, 53 grams of carbohydrate

Pineapple, per 1 cup, 39 grams of carbohydrate

Well, now I can see why Dr. Haas considered ripe banana to be a good

source of carbohydrates! (BTW, one medium banana has 28 grams)

>> 3. Limit Carrot, Tomato, Squash (these foods may cause problems

for more sensitive individuals) <<

When you're speaking of squash, are you speaking of winter squash, like

butternut, acorn, etc? I can appreciate limiting carrots, although you

might wish to be aware that some of the parents on the pecan bread list

have found that cooking carrots really, really well, like in a pressure

cooker, or, lacking that, for around 4 hours, with plenty of water,

and/or pureeing them have made them more digestible. I will also point

out that I, at least, am fine with peeled and seeded tomatoes, but must

strictly limit tomatoes with peels. Tomato varieties can be a factor, as

well.

>> 4. Limit Cauliflower, Broccoli, Lentils and other Beans,

Cucumber, Celery (these foods are low in fructose, but difficult to

digest) <<

Cauliflower and broccoli are members of the cabbage family and can be a

problem, fructose or not. Legumes prepared the SCD way and cooked

thoroughly might be more digestible. (I often soak lentils, rinse them,

put them in a covered pot with plenty of water in the back of a 350F

oven, then put a pot roast in, and cook them the same length of time, 3-4

hours. Draining the lentils, and whozzing them up good with a hand

blender makes them much better tolerated, at least for me. (Makes a good

mashed potato substitute, FYI.) Peeling Cucumber and de-stringing Celery

can be helpful.

>> 5. Use Spinach, Collard Greens, Garlic, Onion, Zucchini,

Summer Squash, Green, Red, Yellow Peppers <<

Check. If you see issues with the peppers, consider roasting them, and

removing the skins. It's a royal pain, and not as easy as tomatoes, but

it can be done.

>> 6. Cook all fruits and veggies. No raw foods until some progress

is seen (this is common SCD knowledge) <<

Not merely cooking them. Peeling all fruits and veggies as well as

cooking them. Summer squash like the crook neck yellow squash, is a royal

pain to peel, I might add, which is why I use zucchini a lot. (That, and

I'm just not fond of squash rind.) Check on the no raw foods until

progress is seen. I peeled zucchini even pre-SCD.

>> 7. Use Meat, Fish, Eggs, Fats as per SCD

8. Use Dairy Products as per SCD

9. Use Nuts as per SCD (I actually don't use nuts because I have an

allergy.)

10. Use Probiotics as per SCD <<

This looks reasonable, and of course, properly prepared yogurt also has

carbohydrates. Are you able (in terms of nuts) to use cashews, which are

a legume? They are generally considered advanced because they are much

higher in carbs that other nuts.

>> 11. Reassess progress after a month or so. <<

I'm assuming you're already keeping a food diary so you can chart

progress?

It looks to me as if this is very carefully thought out and as logical,

as, say, eliminating latex cross-reactive foods from one's diet.

Particularly, my own research showing that fructose requires processing

by the liver more than other monosaccharides gives a hint of why it could

be an issue.

Looking at the carb counts of some of the fruits and all that you plan, I

don't think you're in danger of dipping into a low-carb diet, which is,

of course, what we're concerned about. (Curse the CCFA and labeling SCD a

low carb diet, any way!)

I'll be interested to hear your report next month.

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Marilyn's research and analysis of Nina's plan is nothing short of extraordinary and I do appreciate it. Both Nina and Marilyn were very astute in details  for  addressing Nina's concerns about legal sugars and consequences for HER of overuse.And it comes right with  the remorseful moments I am having about too many raisins yesterday and not even the excuse of watching the Superbowl :-) Nina, I found the information which you sent out to be interesting. Of course, that information isn't admitting the existence of SCD, and so therefore several of the recommended steps have already been done by the SCDer, like the removal of sugar and High Fructose Corn Syrup. (Which you noted.) And, of course, their dietary recommendations do not recognize the need to get rid of starches as SCD does. Carol F.Celiac, SCD 8 years,MCS, Latex Allergyhttp://www.celiac.com/authors/143/Carol-Frileghhttp://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/gfcf-diet/sc-diet.htm

[Guest guest]

At 10:35 AM 2/5/2008, you wrote:

1. Is fructose possibly as hard

as galactose to digest? I know a number of people do better draining

their yogurt.

Orlinda,

The answer is, " I don't know. "

But if you look in BTVC, on page 21, Elaine says, " While the

underlying causes if the various intestinal disorders cannot be stated

with certainty, faulty digestion and malabsorption of dietary

carbohydrates may be, in large part, responsible for these

disorders. "

Given that we do see plenty of people who do better with dripped yogurt

than with non-dripped, and given the comments made about fructose needing

a lot of work by the liver to be utilized, I think it's a possibility.

Certainly, it seems to me that as long as one makes sure of a reasonably

balanced diet, and makes certain that the dietary carbs don't drop too

low, reducing fructose might show a similar benefit to reducing

galactose.

Want to have a shudder? Think about what we know about carbohydrates. Now

think about the average cup of commercial yogurt. Not fermented long

enough, so it's loaded with lactose. Not dripped, so there's plenty of

galactose. Then they pile on the fruit and sweetener (usually high

fructose corn syrup) so there's plenty of fructose. And last, but not

least, they may throw in corn starch or tapioca, and artificial flavors

and coloring.

Man, my stomach turned queasy just typing that!

>> 2. Do you think a person who is really battling yeast/bacteria

might not have trouble " digesting " fructose, but rather

absorbing it

before " they " do? <<

Again, don't know, but I think it's probable. My feeling is that as long

as one makes sure of a reasonably balanced diet, and makes certain that

the dietary carbs don't drop too low, reducing fructose might show

benefits.

>> 3. I assumed that with squash I could cook them really well and

just scoop out the insides to eat. Is this correct or do they really need

to be peeled before they are cooked? <<

Only squash I know which is usually cooked before being scooped are the

winter squashes, like butternut. <tapping foot> Do the directions

in BTVC say " cooked and peeled " ? Or do they say, " peeled

and cooked " ?

I find I do better if it's peeled before cooking -- when I eat out,

that's not often an option, and peeling after cooking doesn't do as well

for me as peeling before cooking. (I've gone through four vegetable

peelers in the last six years! <grin>)

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Marilyn,

Thank you for your patience and your wise council. I guess I don't

know my squashes as well as I thought. I was thinking of the yellow

summer squash " Butterstick " (just looked it up in our new Territorial

Seed Catolog) and was confused cause I didn't think it was hard to

peel. The one you were talking about was right below it and now I

understand. :0)

Seeing that I am at the beginning of the diet again, my fruits are

limited and I'm not sure that I am getting what you'd consider to be

a good amount of carbs. Bananas are the only fruit on the first stage

that are " okay " when lowering fructose, but I can't seem to find any

that are brown spotted AND ripe with no green. (It's so sad how much

fruit rots before it gets ripe.) I am eating zucchini (peeled and

cooked) and spinach, and finishing the grape juice I'd bought I'm

having 1/2 cup of it with 1/2 cup of water for each meal. We just got

a bunch of oranges so I'll be switching today to diluted orange

juice. I tried to introduce applesauce last week but the yeast flared

up and I could tell it caused some bloating.

Thanks for your time.

Orlinda - OR

Celiac - 2006

SCD - Sept. 2007

> Only squash I know which is usually cooked before

> being scooped are the winter squashes, like

> butternut. <tapping foot> Do the directions in

> BTVC say " cooked and peeled " ? Or do they say, " peeled and cooked " ?

>

> I find I do better if it's peeled before cooking

> -- when I eat out, that's not often an option,

> and peeling after cooking doesn't do as well for

> me as peeling before cooking. (I've gone through

> four vegetable peelers in the last six years! <grin>)

>

>

>

> — Marilyn

> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> Darn Good SCD Cook

> No Human Children

> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Orlinda,

I was wondering how you know it was the " yeast " that flared up?

What did you feel and why do you attribute this to yeast?

Jodi

> I tried to introduce applesauce last week but the yeast flared

> up and I could tell it caused some bloating.

[Guest guest]

Jodi,

I believe it was yeast for a few reasons: One is the fact that the

reason I had to start the diet over was because of the major mistake

that I was drinking Kefir. Kefir has a bunch of yeast in it.

Other than that my symptoms were some red spots on my face, itchy

skin, and (this is really gross) a subateous (sp?) cyst on my back,

which was empty and left a " dent " on surface of my skin, filled up

and started oozing. (I had systemic candida a couple years ago.)

Orlinda - OR

Celiac - 2006

SCD - 2007

>

> > I tried to introduce applesauce last week but the yeast flared

> > up and I could tell it caused some bloating.

>

[Guest guest]

> At 10:35 AM 2/5/2008, you wrote:

>> 1. Is fructose possibly as hard as galactose to digest? I know a

>> number of people do better draining their yogurt.

>

> Orlinda,

>

> The answer is, " I don't know. "

>

> But if you look in BTVC, on page 21, Elaine says, " While the

> underlying causes if the various intestinal disorders cannot be

> stated with certainty, faulty digestion and malabsorption of dietary

> carbohydrates may be, in large part, responsible for these disorders. "

>

> Given that we do see plenty of people who do better with dripped

> yogurt than with non-dripped, and given the comments made about

> fructose needing a lot of work by the liver to be utilized, I think

> it's a possibility.

>

> Certainly, it seems to me that as long as one makes sure of a

> reasonably balanced diet, and makes certain that the dietary carbs

> don't drop too low, reducing fructose might show a similar benefit

> to reducing galactose.

Marilyn or someone else,

I've also recently put myself on low carb SCD, which seems to be

having some

effect so far.

Do you know how one goes about measuring the carbs in things like

cashew zucchini bread and a cup of yogurt and things like bell peppers?

Can one do this at fit day? Or is there a URL somewhere that is

helpful?

TIA,

Mara

[Guest guest]

Mara,

Fitday will help you to figure out carbs for a lot of things. When

you have something like a bread that you make, then you need to

figure out the carbs for each item in it. Once you do that you can

add it as a " custom food " . Then any time you eat it you can just pull

it up.

Orlinda - OR

Celiac - 2006

SCD - Sept. 2007

> Marilyn or someone else,

>

> I've also recently put myself on low carb SCD, which seems to be

> having some

> effect so far.

>

> Do you know how one goes about measuring the carbs in things like

> cashew zucchini bread and a cup of yogurt and things like bell

peppers?

> Can one do this at fit day? Or is there a URL somewhere that is

> helpful?

>

> TIA,

>

> Mara

>

[Guest guest]

You can do it at Fitday

>

>

>

>> Marilyn or someone else,

>

> I've also recently put myself on low carb SCD, which seems to be

> having some

> effect so far.

>

> Do you know how one goes about measuring the carbs in things like

> cashew zucchini bread and a cup of yogurt and things like bell

> peppers?

> Can one do this at fit day? Or is there a URL somewhere that is

> helpful?

>

> Carol F.

Celiac, SCD 8 years,MCS, Latex Allergy

http://www.celiac.com/authors/143/Carol-Frilegh

http://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/gfcf-diet/sc-diet.htm

[Guest guest]

At 12:10 PM 2/5/2008, you wrote:

Do you know how one goes about

measuring the carbs in things like cashew zucchini bread and a cup of

yogurt and things like bell peppers? Can one do this at fit day? Or is

there a URL somewhere that is helpful?

I use the downloadable program from Fit Day. You can do a " custom

food " on it where you enter all the ingredients and their amounts,

and then specify how many portions it makes. Then when you add a portion

to your daily food intake, it tells you how many calories, and grams of

protein, carbohydrate, and fat you have. You can also set up a thing

where you want to gain or lose weight, and you enter your daily calories,

what you weigh now, what you want to weigh, and it tells you how many

calories you have to add or subtract to achieve that weight. And, of

course, you keep track of your activity levels which also affects your

calorie count. The down loaded program was something like $20, and

although it has some annoying things (just about everything I eat has to

be entered as a custom food! <laugh>), it's been useful to

me.

I also feel better on a lower carb diet. But that's not generally the

case. One of the moms on Pecan Bread was saying that her son was very

tired, cranky, lethargic, etc. until she gave him additional legal carbs.

One just has to find what, within the parameters of SCD and a balanced

diet, works best for one's individual gut. That's the beauty of SCD: it's

so customizable!

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Marilyn,

Thanks for your response. I don't think I'm getting enough carbs - I

went up to a total of 2 cups of orange juice today. I think I need to

try the method of cooking carrots really well that you talked

about. . .

> heh. I won't be surprised if the anti-fat lobby wants

> the names changed because they think the mere

> mention of butter is dangerous.

LOL! The industries fear of fat is crazy! I am amazed to find things

like bananas labeled as fat free.

>I use a widget kind of like this one:

> http://www.stacksandstacks.com/html/10632_banana-tree-and-fruit-

bowl.htm

That's a pretty nice contraption. :0)

> Was the apple sauce made with the peels on the

> fruit, or was the fruit peeled before cooking?

I made the apple sauce with peeled apples and cooked them really well.

> — Marilyn

> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> Darn Good SCD Cook

> No Human Children

> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Thank you!

Orlinda - OR

Celiac - 2006

SCD - 2007

[Guest guest]

Orlinda,

Why don't you think you're getting enough carbs?

And yes, the whole low-fat thing is just plain crazy. There ARE medical

conditions -- some of them digestive -- for which lower fat is indicated,

but not by using the starch and sugar-laden " low fat "

substitutes. The obesity issue is serious (believe me, it's one I'm

intimately acquainted with!), but it doesn't seem to have registered on

these so-learned researchers that the more they push low fat, the worse

the epidemic becomes.

>> I made the apple sauce with peeled apples and cooked them really

well. <<

What kind of apples did you use, and were they organic or

conventional?

On the carrots: that might be a good thing to try. Based on my own

experience with carrots, which I did not tolerate at ALL at the beginning

of the diet, choose slender carrots (less likely to be starchy) and, if

possible, organic. Avoid at all cost those " snacking carrots "

as they are often larger carrots cut to size.

I tolerate smaller, well cooked carrots just fine at home. I have to be

very careful about cooked carrots out -- I notice that conventional

carrots have less carrot taste and more " sugary " taste, whereas

organic, slender ones cooked at home taste carroty, rather than

sugary.

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund