Re: Frustrated With Food Labelling

[Guest guest]

Yes, Thanksgiving is a favorite holiday - it combines FOOD with time

off so what could be more appealing?!? (giggles - fighting with one's

gathered family is a 'bonus' - kidding!!)

Katcha

IEing since March 2007

>

> > Styxia - I will have to give your post more thought before I respond

> > and I['m not yet sure I can reply with anything really constructive

> > However, I do want you to know that it may be 'quiet' here a the group

> > for a day or so because with Thanksgiving 'feast' happening in the US,

> > most people are away from their computers with family and friends.

>

> Hey, thanks for your " pre-post " . :-)

>

> I already thought that people won't be writing much today. T-day really

> is a big one in the US, right? :-)

>

> Regards

> s.

>

[Guest guest]

Amy wrote:

> But it felt good to write it, because it reminded me as well what

> I'm thankful for on this holiday.

Then it was worth writing the mail.

Regards

s.

[Guest guest]

Excellent post Amy. I'd say you are doing very well, and I too can

identify with such inner conflicts raging around food. I can't help

but think your method will bare you wonderful results in the long run.

ehugs, Katcha

IEing since March 2007

>

> " It feels like there is no " real match " . Either I eat something

> satisfying and have to deal with a bad conscience or I eat something I

> consider " healthy " and it leaves me with this " diety " feeling.

>

> Oh yes, if we " love our bodies " , we SHOULD crave healthy foods and we

> SHOULD omit the unhealthy stuff because we " love our bodies " .

>

> I still don't get the trick. "

>  

> Styxia-

>

> I battle with this same problem at every meal I eat.  And after

every meal I eat.  I feel like the minute I eat a meal I am either

beating myself up because I didn't eat what I really wanted to eat, or

I did eat what I wanted to eat and therefore should be unhappy. 

>

> The only way I've come to any peace with it is to know a few things,

and to remind myself of them every, and I mean every single day.

>

> 1.  I'm not perfect and never will be.  Therefore it's okay if I

don't always make perfect choices.  I've tried for perfection in the

past, and all it did was leave me even more frusterated.  That's the

whole reason I came to the intuitive eating process in the first

place, because I wanted to escape the feeling that I wasn't good

enough and that what choices I made every day with my food weren't

good enough, or right enough.

>

> 2.  Some days will be better and easier than others.  There are some

days that IE is so easy that I don't even need to think about it. 

Then there are days where I have to battle every minute of every day

to feel like I'm even barely hanging on. 

>

> 3.  This is a lifelong journey for me.  I didn't sign on for IE for

a week, or a month.  I signed on to this because I was sick of WW,

and Atkins.  I was sick of combining foods and being told when to eat

and what to eat.  I wanted to have control over my body and what I put

in my mouth.

>

> Just because I say these things doesn't mean that I always agree

with them.  But I am putting them in my head because I need to hear

them. 

>

> Every day I face choices with my food and I make decisions.  Some of

them are good, some of them are bad.  Some of them are better than

others.  I know this email probably didn't give any real answers and I

apologize for that...  But it felt good to write it, because it

reminded me as well what I'm thankful for on this holiday. 

I'm thankful for this wonderful program and support group that I've

found that have helped me start to make peace with food and myself.

> Amy

>

[Guest guest]

Right on!!!

> The only way I've come to any peace with it is to know a few

things, and to remind myself of them every, and I mean every single

day.

>

> 1.  I'm not perfect and never will be.  Therefore it's okay if I

don't always make perfect choices.  I've tried for perfection in the

past, and all it did was leave me even more frusterated.  That's the

whole reason I came to the intuitive eating process in the first

place, because I wanted to escape the feeling that I wasn't good

enough and that what choices I made every day with my food weren't

good enough, or right enough.

>

> 2.  Some days will be better and easier than others.  There are

some days that IE is so easy that I don't even need to think about

it.  Then there are days where I have to battle every minute of

every day to feel like I'm even barely hanging on. 

>

> 3.  This is a lifelong journey for me.  I didn't sign on for IE

for a week, or a month.  I signed on to this because I was sick of

WW, and Atkins.  I was sick of combining foods and being told when

to eat and what to eat.  I wanted to have control over my body and

what I put in my mouth.

>

> Just because I say these things doesn't mean that I always agree

with them.  But I am putting them in my head because I need to hear

them. 

>

> Every day I face choices with my food and I make decisions.  Some

of them are good, some of them are bad.  Some of them are better

than others.  I know this email probably didn't give any real

answers and I apologize for that...  But it felt good to write it,

because it reminded me as well what I'm thankful for on this

holiday.  I'm thankful for this wonderful program and support group

that I've found that have helped me start to make peace with food

and myself.

> Amy

>

[Guest guest]

Honestly... what our society considers " healthy " changes all the

time. For example, a hundred years ago you'd NEVER have heard of a

low-fat diet. People were always eating things like non-skim milk,

butter, lots of animal meat, etc etc. From our perspective, it seems

flabbergasting that they could have eaten these things and still had

much lower rates of obesity than we have today. But it was not WHAT

they ate, it was the way they ate it. Which was... you guessed it...

intuitively.

Also, there are SO many dietary varieties in this world that human

beings can survive and flourish on that it's astonishing. We get very

caught in our Western ideas of nutrition and normal eating; we have a

very wide variety of foods to choose from, so many food paradigms

from which to choose that it's ridiculous. There is no real

cultural " set " when it comes to eating anymore, because our society

is so fragmented and diverse. But other cultures, historically, have

been able to survive on lots of different diets. The Japanese, for

example, eat lots of plain / " low-fat " foods, like sushi, other fish,

rice, etc. HOWEVER, people like the Inuit, in Alaska or in northern

Canada, have traditionally survived on diets very high in meat,

blubber, etc, without that many other foods. In other words, their

diets were quite high in fat. But were they unhealthy? Absolutely

not. They survived extremely well. They had plenty of energy and

nutrients to do what they needed to do to live and flourish as a

people.

And what about the French? Their diets are traditionally quite rich,

right? But French people are also known for being slender. Why is

this? Westerners look at the sorts of foods they eat and boggle. This

can't be healthy, they say. How do they stay so skinny? But the truth

is that French people are also very intuitive eaters, and mealtimes

have much more of an emphasis on socialization and community, and

less of an emphasis on eating the quantities that Westerners would

more typically eat. French people can linger over meals for hours,

and they are very much socialized not to overeat. And from what I am

aware, the French population is no more unhealthy, generally, than

North Americans.

Finally, to end this novel, I want to say that fat is a NECESSARY

macronutrient in one's diet. When I was restricting I was eating

almost completely non-fat for many months, and I can tell you exactly

what started happening. My hair began falling out. My periods

stopped. I was NEVER satiated -- always ravenously hungry. Fat helps

satiate you, and is necessary for good hair, fertility, and the

absorption of some important vitamins (all the fat-soluble ones).

There's a reason we culturally like to have " fatty " dips with our

veggies, and it's because our bodies know that a little fat helps us

absorb the most possible nutrients from our food.

I hope this helped a little.

~Carolyn

>

> This is going to be a post dripping with frustration.

>

> Want to continue anyway? Ok, you've been warned.

>

> .

> .

> .

>

> It's so damn frustrating that I can't stop labelling foods

as " good " or

> " bad " . If I don't label them " fattening " or " non-fattening " I label

them

> " healthy " and " unhealthy " and the worst of all is: IE encourages

eating

> " healthy foods " (nothing wrong with healthy eating, don't get me

wrong)

> because " we have to respect our bodies " and I can't cope with that.

>

> Either that or my sense of " healthy and unhealthy " is completely

> twisted. I bet if people on here would post some meals they consider

> " healthy " I'd rule out 90% of the condiments as " UNHEALTHY " in less

than

> 5 seconds!

>

> I ate only unhealthy stuff during the last time and I'M HATING IT. I

> also drank too much alcohol (you know that one bottle of beer or one

> glass of wine a day) and coffee with " bad stuff in it " (cocoa

powder or

> chocolate pearls and lots of milk).

>

> And the worst is this sentence that is somehow fixed in my

brain: " If it

> tastes REALLY good, it CAN'T BE HEALTHY! "

>

> And:

>

> " If it's REALLY satisfying, it CAN'T BE HEALTHY! "

>

> Because healthy food doesn't taste good and is not satisfying.

That's

> what 25 and more years of dieting taught me well.

>

> Yes, apples are tasting good when it's time for apples and then

they're

> satisfying but I think you all know that this is not what this post

is

> about.

>

> Let's look about our dinner this evening: left over rice with

arrabiata

> sauce, black olives, white beans and some goat's cheese. Totally

YUM!

> and satisfying but it's so unhealthy in my opinion.

>

>

> the rice: it was white basmati, not whole grain, therefore unhealthy

>

> black olives: only small amounts because of " good fats " allowed

>

> goat's cheese: totally unnecessary, salty, fatty and unhealthy

>

> the sauce: store baught and salty suff, unhealthy

>

> the white beans: the only thing I'd consider healthy

>

>

> So what would have been ok? Self-made sauce, brown rice (and less of

> it), more beans, no cheese and only a few olives as decoration.

>

> Would it have been as YUM! and satisfying? NO! Because I ate stuff

like

> this before and it left me totally frustrated.

>

> It feels like there is no " real match " . Either I eat something

> satisfying and have to deal with a bad conscience or I eat

something I

> consider " healthy " and it leaves me with this " diety " feeling.

>

> Oh yes, if we " love our bodies " , we SHOULD crave healthy foods and

we

> SHOULD omit the unhealthy stuff because we " love our bodies " .[1]

>

> I still don't get the trick.

>

> My view of what is " healthy " or " unhealthy " food seems to be really

> warped from hanging out at vegan and raw-vegan communities and

reading

> books quite a good deal. I just realised (once more) that my sense

of

> " healthy " and " unhealthy " is still dominated by " fattening " and

> " non-fattening " , but this is by far not the only demon I have to

deal

> with. BY FAR. I'd rather eat a full fat plain soy yoghurt than a

> fat-free, sugar-free dairy yoghurt and I'd go all animal-free

regarding

> food if I could afford all the stuff that makes the vegan food

yummie

> (e. g. all these expensive nuts and the condiments necessary to cook

> some of the fancy foods).

>

> And now I crave something sweet as usually after dinner. ARRRRGH.

>

> I bet that some of you have this problem or had it in the past. How

do

> you deal with it?

>

> Regards

> s.

>

> [1] Yes, I have to admit that I'm dripping with sarcasm here. I'm

> frustrated beyond good or bad right now.

>

[Guest guest]

My thoughts exactly - the only 'expert' each of us need to

listen to is our own body. Whole grains could be 'healthy' of many but

definitely NOT good for some one with a food allergy or intestinal

disorder. And as others have pointed out, fats contain needed

nutrients as well as provide satisfaction (fullness), yet if one has

gall bladder difficulties, those need to be managed another way.

Styxia - poor thing, you really have a battle going on with external

input that has moved right into YOUR head. I hope you can find a way

(great suggestion ) to either evict them or appease them for YOUR

own sake. Remind 'them' that they can 'die' if they 'kill' the patient

too ;-)

Ehugs, Katcha

IEing since March 2007

>

> Hi Styxia,

> Hey, no one ever said Intuitive Eating is easy, right? ;-)

>

> We all know the goal of Intuitive Eating is to develop a healthy

> relationship with food, but how we do that, and what we define as a

> healthy relationship is unique to each of us.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry I'm late with responding but I had to think some of the

suggestions and " the whole thing " over and I'm still not quite sure what

to write as an answer to all of you who were so kind trying to help and

give advice.

Thanks again to all who wrote an answer!

Regards

s.

[Guest guest]

>> Honestly... what our society considers " healthy " changes all the

> time.

I was thinking the same thing. For almost ANY food you can mention, I

can find research that shows that a particular food is healthy for you,

or unhealthy for you, be it fat, protein, or carbohydrate. And, as

others have said, some people's bodies do not react well to fats, or

whole grains, or fruit, or dairy, etc. etc. etc.!

We each have to determine what healthy eating is for ourselves, based

on how our body responds to the food. Intuitive eating teaches us how

to listen to our bodies, not only to what our body feels like eating,

but also how our body feels AFTER we eat.(Good energy? Tired? Bloated?

Gassy? Congested? Edema? Painful joints?)

Maybe it would be helpful if, instead of saying " This food is healthy "

or " This food is unhealthy " , we try saying, " This food makes my body

feel good " or " This food does not make my body feel good. "

I personally find this to be a very challenging issue. I think the one

thing more " ingrained " in my head than dieting is that I should try to

eat healthy. But over and over again, the definition of " healthy " keeps

changing.

I know, for myself, it has been much easier to give up on reading about

diets than it has on keeping up with the latest research on " healthy

eating " . As soon as I read about some study that talks about how people

ate a certain food and had better scores than when they ate a certain

other food, I run to the store to stock up on the " certain food " . Of

course, a week later, I read about all the health problems associated

with that " certain food " , and then it sits on my pantry shelf with

dozens of other " certain foods " that I probably will never touch.

I compare that to my recent experience of eating a big slab of prime

rib. My husband and I have not " indulged " in that for a few years so

for Thanksgiving, I decided to live it up and served prime rib. My

husband and I smacked our lips with glee and ate every scrap. And then

we both felt sick to our stomachs all night long! As I said to my

husband, " Well, dear, looks like we are too old to eat prime rib! "

Never used to have a problem with it, but at this age, apparently all

that rich beef and fat does NOT agree with our systems. So now, despite

all the research I can find showing the health benefits of red meat and

saturated fat and an equal amount of research showing the evils of said

food, prime rib will now be on MY " unhealthy " list because it

DEFINITELY does not make my body feel good! :-)

[Guest guest]

Wow! Now I am feeling a horrible amount of guilt over my bacon cheese burger and fries I ate last night. All of that stuff you listed sounded really healthy to me.

Melinda Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas.

[Guest guest]

I'm learning so much from all of you! I can't wait until I can get the book next week!

I really feel I have a place with this group! I read posts and I'm like YES YES I can so relate. When I was 12 I believe...a long time ago lol...I told my mother and my Doctor....that I ate when I was upset...all the doctor said was...well don't......

Love,

**************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp & icid=aolcom40vanity & ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002)

[Guest guest]

Hi Melinda,

Don't feel guilty about a yummy cheeseburger and fries. That is the best part of IE--You get to eat what you want to eat instead of what you think you should eat! I think what you ate sounds wonderful. In fact, I had Red Robin for dinner tonight, a Bacon Guacamole Burger and Steak Fries. I actually chose to eat more fries and less burger, because I knew I could eat the burger later, and the fries tasted soooo yummy. And all GUILT FREE! So cut yourself some slack. You are doing a good thing for your emotional health and your body in the long run!

:)Bonnie

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:17:26 PMSubject: Re: Frustrated With "Food Labelling"

Wow! Now I am feeling a horrible amount of guilt over my bacon cheese burger and fries I ate last night. All of that stuff you listed sounded really healthy to me.Melinda

Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas.

[Guest guest]

This post made me think of Woody 's movie " Sleeper " where a

nerdy health-food store owner is cryogenically preserved and wakes up

in the future.

In one scene, two of the medical professionals are chatting over his

case. (Thank you IMDB http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070707/quotes)

------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something

called " wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk. "

Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances

that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving

properties.

Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies

or... hot fudge?

Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy... precisely the

opposite of what we now know to be true.

Dr. Melik: Incredible.

>

> This is going to be a post dripping with frustration.

>

> Want to continue anyway? Ok, you've been warned.

>

> .

> .

> .

>

> It's so damn frustrating that I can't stop labelling foods

as " good " or

> " bad " . If I don't label them " fattening " or " non-fattening " I label

them

> " healthy " and " unhealthy " and the worst of all is: IE encourages

eating

> " healthy foods " (nothing wrong with healthy eating, don't get me

wrong)

> because " we have to respect our bodies " and I can't cope with that.

>

> Either that or my sense of " healthy and unhealthy " is completely

> twisted. I bet if people on here would post some meals they consider

> " healthy " I'd rule out 90% of the condiments as " UNHEALTHY " in less

than

> 5 seconds!

>

> I ate only unhealthy stuff during the last time and I'M HATING IT. I

> also drank too much alcohol (you know that one bottle of beer or one

> glass of wine a day) and coffee with " bad stuff in it " (cocoa

powder or

> chocolate pearls and lots of milk).

>

> And the worst is this sentence that is somehow fixed in my

brain: " If it

> tastes REALLY good, it CAN'T BE HEALTHY! "

>

> And:

>

> " If it's REALLY satisfying, it CAN'T BE HEALTHY! "

>

> Because healthy food doesn't taste good and is not satisfying.

That's

> what 25 and more years of dieting taught me well.

>

> Yes, apples are tasting good when it's time for apples and then

they're

> satisfying but I think you all know that this is not what this post

is

> about.

>

> Let's look about our dinner this evening: left over rice with

arrabiata

> sauce, black olives, white beans and some goat's cheese. Totally

YUM!

> and satisfying but it's so unhealthy in my opinion.

>

>

> the rice: it was white basmati, not whole grain, therefore unhealthy

>

> black olives: only small amounts because of " good fats " allowed

>

> goat's cheese: totally unnecessary, salty, fatty and unhealthy

>

> the sauce: store baught and salty suff, unhealthy

>

> the white beans: the only thing I'd consider healthy

>

>

> So what would have been ok? Self-made sauce, brown rice (and less of

> it), more beans, no cheese and only a few olives as decoration.

>

> Would it have been as YUM! and satisfying? NO! Because I ate stuff

like

> this before and it left me totally frustrated.

>

> It feels like there is no " real match " . Either I eat something

> satisfying and have to deal with a bad conscience or I eat

something I

> consider " healthy " and it leaves me with this " diety " feeling.

>

> Oh yes, if we " love our bodies " , we SHOULD crave healthy foods and

we

> SHOULD omit the unhealthy stuff because we " love our bodies " .[1]

>

> I still don't get the trick.

>

> My view of what is " healthy " or " unhealthy " food seems to be really

> warped from hanging out at vegan and raw-vegan communities and

reading

> books quite a good deal. I just realised (once more) that my sense

of

> " healthy " and " unhealthy " is still dominated by " fattening " and

> " non-fattening " , but this is by far not the only demon I have to

deal

> with. BY FAR. I'd rather eat a full fat plain soy yoghurt than a

> fat-free, sugar-free dairy yoghurt and I'd go all animal-free

regarding

> food if I could afford all the stuff that makes the vegan food

yummie

> (e. g. all these expensive nuts and the condiments necessary to cook

> some of the fancy foods).

>

> And now I crave something sweet as usually after dinner. ARRRRGH.

>

> I bet that some of you have this problem or had it in the past. How

do

> you deal with it?

>

> Regards

> s.

>

> [1] Yes, I have to admit that I'm dripping with sarcasm here. I'm

> frustrated beyond good or bad right now.

>

[Guest guest]

Kip, there's decaf and there's decaf. Try some different brands (the

best tasting sorts are the the ones you use with a plunger).

You might also want to start out using half regular/half decaf for a

while, and wean yourself onto it. Or just stay using half and half

and see if that's enough to help you feel any better.

Sig

> >So the last few days I've stopped drinking coffee again.  It's been

> hard but I keep telling myself " you can have the coffee but it

doesn't

> make your body feel good. "   It puts the focus on me and my body and

> that it's my choice rather than just labelling it " unhealthy. "  

Thanks

> again! 

> >

> > Kipkabob

> > (Intuitive eating since September 2006)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________________________

> Get the name you've always wanted @ymail.com or @rocketmail.com! Go

to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/

>

[Guest guest]

I have high blood pressure and notice that sometimes caffeine,

especially from coffee makes me feel like my heart is

racing/bounding. I esepcecially can't drink coffee past 3:00pm

unless it is decaf. I allow myself one cup in the am and pretty

much stick to that. I agree, there is something about drinking a

warm cup of java first thing in the am - hot tea doesn't cut it!

I usually don't notice much of a difference between decaf and

regular as far as taste. I wonder what brand of decaf you have

tried. If it is one of the cheaper brands, I could see that, but if

your buy a well known brand and maybe as Katcha suggested, play with

different roasts you might find one that you like. The mixing 1/2

reg w/ decaf is a great suggestion as well.

Alana

-- In IntuitiveEating_Support , " sigi_gee "

wrote:

>

> Kip, there's decaf and there's decaf. Try some different brands

(the

> best tasting sorts are the the ones you use with a plunger).

>

> You might also want to start out using half regular/half decaf for

a

> while, and wean yourself onto it. Or just stay using half and

half

> and see if that's enough to help you feel any better.

>

> Sig

>

>

>

> > >So the last few days I've stopped drinking coffee again.  It's

been

> > hard but I keep telling myself " you can have the coffee but it

> doesn't

> > make your body feel good. "   It puts the focus on me and my body

and

> > that it's my choice rather than just labelling it " unhealthy. "  

> Thanks

> > again! 

> > >

> > > Kipkabob

> > > (Intuitive eating since September 2006)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> __________________________________________________________________

> > Get the name you've always wanted @ymail.com or @rocketmail.com!

Go

> to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Look for Swiss Water Process Decaf Coffee. Google it and you will

find lots of information on it, but it doesn't use chemicals to

decafinate the coffee.

Alana

> > > >So the last few days I've stopped drinking coffee again.

It's

> been

> > > hard but I keep telling myself " you can have the coffee but it

> > doesn't

> > > make your body feel good. " It puts the focus on me and my

body

> and

> > > that it's my choice rather than just labelling

it " unhealthy. "

> > Thanks

> > > again!

> > > >

> > > > Kipkabob

> > > > (Intuitive eating since September 2006)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > > Get the name you've always wanted @ymail.com or @rocketmail.

com!

> Go

> > to http://ca.promos. yahoo.com/ jacko/

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________________________

> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and

bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at

> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Alana...I will look for that.

Kipkabob

(Intuitive eating since September 2006)

Subject: Re: Frustrated With "Food Labelling"To: IntuitiveEating_Support Received: Friday, December 5, 2008, 5:26 PM

Look for Swiss Water Process Decaf Coffee. Google it and you will find lots of information on it, but it doesn't use chemicals to decafinate the coffee.Alana> > > >So the last few days I've stopped drinking coffee again. It's > been> > > hard but I keep telling myself "you can have the coffee but it > > doesn't> > > make your body feel good." It puts the focus on me and my body

> and> > > that it's my choice rather than just labelling it "unhealthy." > > Thanks> > > again! > > > > > > > > Kipkabob> > > > (Intuitive eating since September 2006)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _> > > Get the name you've always wanted @ymail.com or @rocketmail. com! > Go > > to http://ca.promos. yahoo.com/ jacko/> > >> >> > > > >

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