Guest guest Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 The reason is I read that correction on the website. My thermometer shows increments of 20 so I check in at about 80 myself. Never yet had the milk go below 80F -- and I used to feel (since no one had made the Ruling That It Must Be 77F Or Lower), based on what Elaine said, that I was OK. In fact, I went through paroxysms of "Oh, NO! Have I been using bad yogurt all this time?!" when I saw the higher temps on the web site. Until I read what they were actually saying. Problem is, too many people are so eager to get on with their yogurt making that they add the starter AT that temperature, and this can be a problem. So what's the reason, other than needing a specific temperature for people to shoot for, for specifying 77F? T Carol F.Celiac, SCD 8 years,MCS, Latex Allergyhttp://www.celiac.com/authors/143/Carol-Frileghhttp://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/gfcf-diet/sc-diet.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Hi All, Yes, there is confusion about what temperature to cool the milk before adding the starter . . . and as Marilyn pointed out, it's not clear or specific in our BTVC books or website. However, found some info' that MAY clear up our quandry. First, take a look at what Elaine says in her BTVC, Tenth Anniversary Edition - 2004, pg. 157. She writes: Cover and cool until it has reached room temperature or below (may be placed in refrigerator to hasten cooling). It is very important that you allow the temperature to drop sufficiently OR you will kill the bacterial culture you are now ready to introduce. Why does she say that? What does she mean? According to Dr. Fankhauser's (Professor of Biology and Chemistry, Clermont College, Batavia, Ohio) article on "Making Yogurt", he states: " . . . thermophilic bacteria (Lactobacilli and Streptococcus) . . . prefer elevated temperatures for growth and, at the same time, the elevated temperature inhibits pathogenic or putrifactive bacteria growth. That being said, even thermophilic bacteria are killed if exposed to temperatures over 55C (130F) AND thermophilic bacteria do not grow well below 37F (98F)". I interpret this to mean . . . do not add the starter when temps are above 55C (130F), but do add the starter BEFORE the milk has cooled to 37F (98F). Below are temps from several different sites. Altho' the temps for adding the starter vary a bit, they all seem to agree . . . do not let the milk cool below 37F (98F). From University of Nebraska-Lincoln, Extension Publications: "Wait until the milk cools down to 110F before inoculating." From University of Wisconsin, River Falls: "Cool to 115F (warm)". From University of Georgia: "Place in cold water to cool milk rapidly to 112-115F". From HubPages: "Cool milk" . . . "Once it reaches 40-43C (105-110F), mix up" . . . your milk and starter. From Health Goods: "Wait until the milk cools down to 110F before inoculating". From Lucy's Kitchen (yogurt instructions): "Allow the milk to cool below 100F (room temperature)". I'm sure there is more info' out there on the Web, but this is all I took a look at. For me, I'm going to add starter before the temp goes below 100F . . . because it falls within Elaine's instructions and Dr. Fankhauser's research. Well wishes to all. ferna, UC/CD, SCD 97, 05, 06, No Meds -----Original Message----- Ok, so, there's confusion about the temperature for the yogurt. Where we get into a headache is, "What defines 'room temperature'?" Please note that nowhere in here does Elaine specify "77F" or anything similar. Just "room temperature." Where the confusion comes about is that on Elaine's website, approved by Elaine, is the statement "Allow the milk to cool to below 110'F(43C) luke warm temperature (body temperature) or cooler." Even more confusing is that the original BTVC website, also approved by Elaine, (now T's, since she gave over being webmaster when non-SCD-related health issues got to her), says, "Turn the heat off and allow to cool to between 108 and 112 degrees F." More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 but I think what you wrote goes against what Elaine said. Katy Below are temps from several different sites. Altho' the temps for adding the starter vary a bit, they all seem to agree . . . do not let the milk cool below 37C (98F). _____________________________________________________________Beauty Product ReviewsRead unbiased beauty product reviews and join our product review team! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Turn the heat off and allow the milk to cool. The heated milk needs to be cooled to ROOM TEMPERATURE or below (as per Elaine's yogurt making instructions in BTVC). The range for room temperature is 20–25 °C (64-77 °F). Stir well before determining the final temperature. You may cover the pot with a clean tea towel while it cools.I don;t know about all your landlords but our place ever gets up to 98 F. :-)but I think what you wrote goes against what Elaine said. Katy Below are temps from several different sites. Altho' the temps for adding the starter vary a bit, they all seem to agree . . . do not let the milk cool below 37C (98F). _____________________________________________________________Beauty Product ReviewsRead unbiased beauty product reviews and join our product review team! Carol F.Celiac, SCD 8 years,MCS, Latex Allergyhttp://www.celiac.com/authors/143/Carol-Frileghhttp://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/gfcf-diet/sc-diet.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 From the pictorial guide on Elaine's site: 3/ Let the milk cool, you can speed cooling by putting it in a sink of cold water as above. Allow the milk to cool to below 110'F(43C) luke warm temperature (body temperature) or cooler.From BTVC page 155 "cool to room temperature or below." I suspect the pictorial instructions came with their own temperature, NOT what Elaine said and it was never corrected.My body temperature and my room temperature vary by 20 degreesHi All,Yes, there is confusion about what temperature to cool the milk before adding the starter . . . and as Marilyn pointed out, it's not clear or specific in our BTVC books or website. Carol F.Celiac, SCD 8 years,MCS, Latex Allergyhttp://www.celiac.com/authors/143/Carol-Frileghhttp://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/gfcf-diet/sc-diet.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Carol, Do you think someone could change what Elaine's website says. When I first started, that was all I had since our libraries were closed. And the instructions for the heating pad method, which I was using, say . . . " 4. Once the milk has cooled to about 100 F(38C), add the starter. " It is obvious to me now that this is wrong and it would be nice if it could be corrected. Orlinda - OR Celiac - 2006 SCD - 2007 > > From the pictorial guide on Elaine's site: > > 3/ Let the milk cool, you can speed cooling by putting it in a sink > of cold water as above. Allow the milk to cool to below 110'F(43C) > luke warm temperature (body temperature) or cooler. > > From BTVC page 155 " cool to room temperature or below. " > > I suspect the pictorial instructions came with their own temperature, > NOT what Elaine said and it was never corrected. > My body temperature and my room temperature vary by 20 degrees > > > Carol F. > Celiac, SCD 8 years,MCS, Latex Allergy > http://www.celiac.com/authors/143/Carol-Frilegh > http://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/gfcf-diet/sc-diet.htm > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 At 03:22 PM 2/6/2008, you wrote: I think we all want to find the best temp because we want all the good bacteria we can get and not just settle for some. Here is an email I saved from pecanbread moderator. Mine comes out good room temp or higher but I feel better with the lower temp knowing that some strains start lower. It matters which starter you use also, I think. Katy, You're correct that it matters which starter you're using. Sheila's post to Pecan Bread is also nicely detailed. One point, however: her " room temperature " is a CANADIAN room temperature. I don't have enough room in my refrigerator for 3-4 pots of milk to cool it below what I can manage with a small amount of ice and tap water. I flat can't afford to run my air conditioner year round to achieve that -- the $500 electric bills would do me in. So the best I can manage is around 80F. I, too, prefer the lower temperature because ROOM TEMPERATURE is what Elaine specified. But ELAINE acknowledged that room temperature can be variable, depending on where you live. What I don't want to see is someone chucking a couple quarts (or more) of expensive, organic, pasture-raised milk because <gasp!> their thermometer was off, and they added the starter at 79F!!! I think we're all interested in having the Yogurt Fairies do their best for us, and in providing them the best possible environment for them to do it in. I just don't think they're quite as fragile as some people would have us believe, and I don't want to see yogurt making turned into a stress-filled terror-session because the new SCDer is sure they can't possibly do all those complex and detailed things. — Marilyn New Orleans, Louisiana, USA Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 Darn Good SCD Cook No Human Children Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 At 05:49 PM 2/6/2008, you wrote: Again, 77 degrees is " universal " . Room temperature in New Orleans is around 80-85F was my point. Unless, of course, I want to rack up a $500 electric bill running the air conditioner to get the house temperature down to the temperature " room temperature " is regularly in many parts of Canada. — Marilyn New Orleans, Louisiana, USA Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 Darn Good SCD Cook No Human Children Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Sorry, Marilyn, I'm getting info overload again and wondered if that wasn't perhaps implying that 77 in some climates differed from 77 in others. LOL Of course I see your point in all the ambiguity of phrasing it thusly. In my case, it's the heating bills. In winter room temp might be under 60. So it's a choice of bundling up, or having the shocking bills arrive. :)"Wizop Marilyn L. Alm" wrote: At 05:49 PM 2/6/2008, you wrote: Again, 77 degrees is "universal".Room temperature in New Orleans is around 80-85F was my point. Unless, of course, I want to rack up a $500 electric bill running the air conditioner to get the house temperature down to the temperature "room temperature" is regularly in many parts of Canada. — Marilyn New Orleans, Louisiana, USA Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 Darn Good SCD Cook No Human Children Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 At 06:11 PM 2/6/2008, you wrote: So a sink full of ice or a cooler full wouldn't help bring the temperature down fast if you used a thermometer? Well, I don't have room in my freezer for that much ice. Enough ice to bring the temp of eight quarts of milk down = going to the store and buying the ice. I went with a significantly smaller freezer after Hurricane Katrina. That way, I can't fill it up with SCD goodies I'll just lose if another bad storm hits. So I do what I can... I have enough ice to bring the milk temperature down to around 80F. My yogurt turns out firm, tart, and deliciously healing. After seven years, I really don't think I've been making yogurt wrong all this time. — Marilyn New Orleans, Louisiana, USA Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 Darn Good SCD Cook No Human Children Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 At 06:23 PM 2/6/2008, you wrote: I'm getting info overload again and wondered if that wasn't perhaps implying that 77 in some climates differed from 77 in others. LOL Of course I see your point in all the ambiguity of phrasing it thusly. Right. <grin> Oh, and just to make things even more entertaining, I asked my design engineer husband (who works with nominally " standard " temperatures all the time what was considered " room temperature " . He asked why, and I explained about the Great Controversy. He laughed. 68F is considered the " standard room temperature, " he said. And " skin temperature " or " body temperature " is not what the doctor measures, ie 98.6F. He says it's around 80-85F, depending on what the ambient temperature in the room is. No, I wasn't saying that 77F is not 77F world-wide, but I can see why my phrasing might have been confusing. >> In my case, it's the heating bills. In winter room temp might be under 60. So it's a choice of bundling up, or having the shocking bills arrive. << Yah. Friend of mine in Milwaukee almost spent the night at work tonight because of a blizzard. There IS one advantage to cold weather over hot, though. You can pile on the clothes when it's cold, and still venture outside. When it's hot, there's a limit to how much you can take off and not be arrested if you leave your house! — Marilyn New Orleans, Louisiana, USA Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 Darn Good SCD Cook No Human Children Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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