Re: Re: what are my options if I didn't like PLACE program in Coconut Cr

[Guest guest]

HI Diane,

I am frustrated with the school right now (and have been for a while) but I hope I did not scare you!! A great deal of how well things turn out for your child will depend on three things, in my opinion: the teacher, the strenght of the IEP, and your active involvemnet and perseverance. It looks like you have the past part down so that is a great beggining. The teacher is the draw of the luck because you can not choose him/her but strong communication with her will be beneficial.

I realized this year that I should have asked last year to see my child's Star evaluation results. (It is the method they use at Baudhuin to judge his progress.) This year I will certainly ask for more FORMAL meetings with his teacher and I will take NOTES and ASK MORE QUESTIONS. And I will find more opportunities for him to socialize in our community. Baudhuin does offer some integrated playground time with the Day Care next door but that's about 20-40 minutes per week only. In my opinion, not enough for the degree of socialization delay my son has. Before I forget, let me mention that the school frowns upon parents picking up early their kids and they will tell you that sending her mornings only is not something they want you to do. They want the kids to have the wholeday experience so that they get used to it for kindergarden. Nevertherless, I might have to pick up my son early this year, if they give me again a hard time about

issues surrounding his lunch. (I might have to pick him up early to have lunch at home. We'll see...)

I am halfway through reading "From Emotions to Advocacy" By Pam and Pete . This book is a MUST for parents with children with disabilities. You can order it from the wrightslaw website. I am going to attend the IEP CARD workshop this fall and have been this summer to 2 education law attorneys' seminars. It makes a big difference to have all this information, not only to get a strong IEP but also to learn to create a "Master Life Plan" for your child. Like Pete says in his book, "you would not start building a new home without blueprints, right? Or without finding out what the building and zoning codes are in your area?" The same way,you have to prepare to give your child a good road map for success. We must learn how the school system works, know the rules of the game, and prepare, create a strong IEP and prepare, prepare to be good advocates. Parents are the natural advocates to

children.

I am still in the process of learning a lot about all this but I can now identify some major weaknesses in my son's IEP which I hope to correct soon. The subject is extensive but if you have an IEP, I would be happy to meet up with you and tell you how I think it would be better.

Feel free to email at idajkessler@...

best wishes, Ida

Subject: Re: what are my options if I didn't like PLACE program in Coconut CrTo: sList Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 11:19 PM

Ida:

Ugh!

I have been besides myself in deciding whether or not to send my soon-to-be 3 yr old son to Baudhein (I recently found out he is eligible). The "not" options would be continue to pay for private ABA and perhaps (if even possible) have him attend Baudhein on a parttime basis.

The reason I am for Baudhein is the socialization part, but based on your account, I think I may be wrong.

I am too worried about the low expectation part. My son also knows his colors, letters, numbers, shapes (he likes octagon and pentagon too). I'm worried that he will not be adequately challenged. When he is asked "point to blue" from a field of two, he starts to stim. He totally "flunked" his evaluation for this very reason. He hasn't even set a foot into the school and I'm a little worried about the low expectations.

From the sounds of "a1973"' s e-mail, the PLACE program isn't much better--curriculumi sh speaking.

I appreciate your input about putting tracing letters and sight words on the IEP.

I also have a question in general about IEP and a program like Baudhein for instance. If every child has a different IEP, how can these goals possibly be accomplished in a classroom setting? Is there any one-on-one time to accomplish specific IEP goals? Are children "grouped" according to IEP goals, or are the children grouped according to their perceived "functioning" level.

I would appreciate anybody's input/knowledge in this regard.

I have only heard good things about Baudhein. But now that the time has come, I need details, details, details!

Also Ida, doesn't Baudhein have any program where children such as your own can socialize with typical children for at least part of the day? The main reason I am considering Baudhein IS the socialization part.

Admittedly, some of these questions/concerns may be premature as I have not yet toured the school or received my information packet.

But the opinions and input I receive from 's List is invaluable.

Like I said, thank you for the IEP tips you gave. Any other preschool IEP tips from anyone else would be much appreciated not only for me but to others on this list.

Sincerely,

Diane

[Guest guest]

I am responding to the resounding theme of expectations and Baudhuin.

Baudhuin is a great program. My son attended for 2 years. Now, they have their issues, all programs have issues, rather, all individuals have issues. With this understanding in mind, I still believe they have a great program.

It is important to note that the expectations don't necessarily come from the administration but from the individual teachers and aides in the classrooms. The autism coaches are well trained and the staff are offered many trainings throughout the year and the summers. There are challenges to the program, which could be addressed. I am not going into that right now.

The positives:

All teachers take data and everyone is trained in how to run discrete trials and take data. Everyone has access to their core's speech pathologists, OT's and PT's and the coaches to access strategies for the children in their classrooms. The school has been working towards more socialization opportunities with the typical kids from the other side of the school. My son's class did receive this last year. It is important to note that this is more of a political issue and that it has been reported the typical kids' parents are ignorant as to the benefits of integration/inclusion. It appears that, historically, this has been an issue. Some awareness campaigns would benefit them. Everyone is trained in everything autism, which has its benefits. Other school based programs are varying exceptionalities, which also has its benefits.

The teachers my son had held very high expectations of him, perhaps, higher than I had for him at that time. That is 2 teachers out of the entire staff, I realize.

I remember how anxious I was when my son was going to a program (Baudhuin). I am anxious now that he is going into kindergarten as it is a new school with new teachers, kids, aides. It is a bigger school and there are so many kids. So, every new level has a new level of anxiety and concerns for our kids attached.

What has worked for me so far is to be informed of the IEP. I plan to request the data sheets for my son's goals on a monthly basis. I will build rapport with his teachers and aides. I will ask questions and ensure they have an idea of my son's strengths and challenges and disciplinary/learning strategies we have seen that work for him.

In regards to the integrated classroom. It is important to note that the ratio is 2 adults to 18 kids at times. That is a huge challenge for most of our children. That is the designed program. If a child is not "ready" for that type of setting, it is not a bad thing and it does nto necessarily mean the program is flawed. It is the program. It is full inclusion readiness for the child. The child needs to have a lot of independent functioning skills to be successful in that type of setting. I remember being uncomfortable about this issue for my own son who I view as very social, has some good verbal skills and some good independent functioning skills. However, when I thought about the ratio, I knew he would be more successful in a smaller classroom.

Antoher example: Some parents have asked why I did not push for full inclusion as they believed I would have successfully received this for my kid. Why would I do this when he can have the benefits of both settings? He gets the small class size he needs, one on one instruction and the exposure to the general education settings as well.

I have learned it is important to really know what we want for our kids. Some are fine with just exposing them to inclusive settings. Some want them fully included no matter what (perhaps sometimes, even at the cost of our kids' anxieties, learning). Some want their kids excluded from all inclusive settings.

Knowing sight words are not necessary at age 3. There is one on one time (discrete trials) for the kids to work on their specific iep goals. There is also small group time to work on other goals and large group time to work on yet, more goals.

Baudhuin generally has a method of having children in each class with range of abilities. They do this in order to expose kids to a variety of strenghts. For example, a child who struggles socially would be in a class with another child who is more social. They use the theory that the kids will learn from each other. Not all classes are devised this way but most are.

During playground time and other times during the day, staff are trained to facilitate socialization. They use a variety of strategies to help the children socialize with each other. If you are curious about this, park in the lot across the street and watch playground time. The staff should be very actively moving about doing this, teaching the kids to play, take turns, etc. If they are not, call the school and the coaches will initiate what they call "sweeps" to ensure this takes place. Just from experience... It is part of the overall curriculum.

Whew..... if you have more questions/concerns, ask. Ask Baudhuin too.

Re: what are my options if I didn't like PLACE program in Coconut Cr

Ida:

Ugh!

I have been besides myself in deciding whether or not to send my soon-to-be 3 yr old son to Baudhein (I recently found out he is eligible). The "not" options would be continue to pay for private ABA and perhaps (if even possible) have him attend Baudhein on a parttime basis.

The reason I am for Baudhein is the socialization part, but based on your account, I think I may be wrong.

I am too worried about the low expectation part. My son also knows his colors, letters, numbers, shapes (he likes octagon and pentagon too). I'm worried that he will not be adequately challenged. When he is asked "point to blue" from a field of two, he starts to stim. He totally "flunked" his evaluation for this very reason. He hasn't even set a foot into the school and I'm a little worried about the low expectations.

From the sounds of "a1973"'s e-mail, the PLACE program isn't much better--curriculumish speaking.

I appreciate your input about putting tracing letters and sight words on the IEP.

I also have a question in general about IEP and a program like Baudhein for instance. If every child has a different IEP, how can these goals possibly be accomplished in a classroom setting? Is there any one-on-one time to accomplish specific IEP goals? Are children "grouped" according to IEP goals, or are the children grouped according to their perceived "functioning" level.

I would appreciate anybody's input/knowledge in this regard.

I have only heard good things about Baudhein. But now that the time has come, I need details, details, details!

Also Ida, doesn't Baudhein have any program where children such as your own can socialize with typical children for at least part of the day? The main reason I am considering Baudhein IS the socialization part.

Admittedly, some of these questions/concerns may be premature as I have not yet toured the school or received my information packet.

But the opinions and input I receive from 's List is invaluable.

Like I said, thank you for the IEP tips you gave. Any other preschool IEP tips from anyone else would be much appreciated not only for me but to others on this list.

Sincerely,

Diane

[Guest guest]

Like I said before, I think Baudhuin is probably the best Pre-School choice in the area, but they tend to give a "One-size fits all" kind of education. There should be more placement options (other than only one large inclusion class). Such a large class brings its own challenges like you mention. And for some children, just as much as the self-contained classroom placement do not provide the appropriate education he or she needs at this time. Students should be looked at individually and that is the purpose behind IDEA. It's a shame they do not have a 11-13 student integrated classroom, and that it is not until now that they will start doing reverse mainstreaming (one class with Baudhuin's integrated class), and only under very limited circumstances.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have still placed my son at Baudhuin but would not have been so naive as I was a year ago to assume that I could rely on what they school said was appropriate for my child. Schools, and Baudhuin is no exception, look at their budgets and resources and try to fit everyone in there the best they can. They do not start from the premises of offering an individualized appropriate education for our children. WE PARENTS have to educate ourselves on our children's disability, on special education, the school system, disability education law, and advocacy. To not do so, is to leave our children's education in the hands of people that are looking to do often just the minimum for them. In 13 months, my son had 4 teachers at Baudhuin, and I had the full range from EXCELLENT (I wanted to cry when they left kind of teachers) to NIGHTMARE (meaning 2 months into the school year, she was so out of touch with my

child did not know my son could utter a word when he spoke in sentences in every other setting!. Her attitude--not to believe me until she saw video footage .) Basically any school, if you get an AWESOME teacher will be a great school for your child. It is the luck of the draw.

I do find that the low expectations do not just run with some teachers. There are administrators staff that are absolutely wonderful, they even have kids with developmental disabilities and they have their hearts set in the right place, but there are others that can be quite condescending... Just my experience...

Ida

Subject: Re: Re: what are my options if I didn't like PLACE program in Coconut CrTo: sList Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 3:52 PM

I am responding to the resounding theme of expectations and Baudhuin.

Baudhuin is a great program. My son attended for 2 years. Now, they have their issues, all programs have issues, rather, all individuals have issues. With this understanding in mind, I still believe they have a great program.

It is important to note that the expectations don't necessarily come from the administration but from the individual teachers and aides in the classrooms. The autism coaches are well trained and the staff are offered many trainings throughout the year and the summers. There are challenges to the program, which could be addressed. I am not going into that right now.

The positives:

All teachers take data and everyone is trained in how to run discrete trials and take data. Everyone has access to their core's speech pathologists, OT's and PT's and the coaches to access strategies for the children in their classrooms. The school has been working towards more socialization opportunities with the typical kids from the other side of the school. My son's class did receive this last year. It is important to note that this is more of a political issue and that it has been reported the typical kids' parents are ignorant as to the benefits of integration/ inclusion. It appears that, historically, this has been an issue. Some awareness campaigns would benefit them. Everyone is trained in everything autism, which has its benefits. Other school based programs are varying exceptionalities, which also has its benefits.

The teachers my son had held very high expectations of him, perhaps, higher than I had for him at that time. That is 2 teachers out of the entire staff, I realize.

I remember how anxious I was when my son was going to a program (Baudhuin). I am anxious now that he is going into kindergarten as it is a new school with new teachers, kids, aides. It is a bigger school and there are so many kids. So, every new level has a new level of anxiety and concerns for our kids attached.

What has worked for me so far is to be informed of the IEP. I plan to request the data sheets for my son's goals on a monthly basis. I will build rapport with his teachers and aides. I will ask questions and ensure they have an idea of my son's strengths and challenges and disciplinary/ learning strategies we have seen that work for him.

In regards to the integrated classroom. It is important to note that the ratio is 2 adults to 18 kids at times. That is a huge challenge for most of our children. That is the designed program. If a child is not "ready" for that type of setting, it is not a bad thing and it does nto necessarily mean the program is flawed. It is the program. It is full inclusion readiness for the child. The child needs to have a lot of independent functioning skills to be successful in that type of setting. I remember being uncomfortable about this issue for my own son who I view as very social, has some good verbal skills and some good independent functioning skills. However, when I thought about the ratio, I knew he would be more successful in a smaller classroom.

Antoher example: Some parents have asked why I did not push for full inclusion as they believed I would have successfully received this for my kid. Why would I do this when he can have the benefits of both settings? He gets the small class size he needs, one on one instruction and the exposure to the general education settings as well.

I have learned it is important to really know what we want for our kids. Some are fine with just exposing them to inclusive settings. Some want them fully included no matter what (perhaps sometimes, even at the cost of our kids' anxieties, learning). Some want their kids excluded from all inclusive settings.

Knowing sight words are not necessary at age 3. There is one on one time (discrete trials) for the kids to work on their specific iep goals. There is also small group time to work on other goals and large group time to work on yet, more goals.

Baudhuin generally has a method of having children in each class with range of abilities. They do this in order to expose kids to a variety of strenghts. For example, a child who struggles socially would be in a class with another child who is more social. They use the theory that the kids will learn from each other. Not all classes are devised this way but most are.

During playground time and other times during the day, staff are trained to facilitate socialization. They use a variety of strategies to help the children socialize with each other. If you are curious about this, park in the lot across the street and watch playground time. The staff should be very actively moving about doing this, teaching the kids to play, take turns, etc. If they are not, call the school and the coaches will initiate what they call "sweeps" to ensure this takes place. Just from experience.. . It is part of the overall curriculum.

Whew..... if you have more questions/concerns, ask. Ask Baudhuin too.

Re: what are my options if I didn't like PLACE program in Coconut Cr

Ida:

Ugh!

I have been besides myself in deciding whether or not to send my soon-to-be 3 yr old son to Baudhein (I recently found out he is eligible). The "not" options would be continue to pay for private ABA and perhaps (if even possible) have him attend Baudhein on a parttime basis.

The reason I am for Baudhein is the socialization part, but based on your account, I think I may be wrong.

I am too worried about the low expectation part. My son also knows his colors, letters, numbers, shapes (he likes octagon and pentagon too). I'm worried that he will not be adequately challenged. When he is asked "point to blue" from a field of two, he starts to stim. He totally "flunked" his evaluation for this very reason. He hasn't even set a foot into the school and I'm a little worried about the low expectations.

From the sounds of "a1973"' s e-mail, the PLACE program isn't much better--curriculumi sh speaking.

I appreciate your input about putting tracing letters and sight words on the IEP.

I also have a question in general about IEP and a program like Baudhein for instance. If every child has a different IEP, how can these goals possibly be accomplished in a classroom setting? Is there any one-on-one time to accomplish specific IEP goals? Are children "grouped" according to IEP goals, or are the children grouped according to their perceived "functioning" level.

I would appreciate anybody's input/knowledge in this regard.

I have only heard good things about Baudhein. But now that the time has come, I need details, details, details!

Also Ida, doesn't Baudhein have any program where children such as your own can socialize with typical children for at least part of the day? The main reason I am considering Baudhein IS the socialization part.

Admittedly, some of these questions/concerns may be premature as I have not yet toured the school or received my information packet.

But the opinions and input I receive from 's List is invaluable.

Like I said, thank you for the IEP tips you gave. Any other preschool IEP tips from anyone else would be much appreciated not only for me but to others on this list.

Sincerely,

Diane